LOST (Game Over)

[T-Bone]

Sup nerds.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: T-Bone

Big scumclaim btw

[T-Bone]

Okay I caught up. Someone talk me out of the vote I'm gonna make, cause it'll be on scum. You have until the time it takes for me to format the vote. Maybe through a segment of BB too. Ready. Set. Go.

[T-Bone]

I was gonna vote but Pooky talked me out of it.

[T-Bone]

Oop

[T-Bone]

Yeah but I took the pagetop. Who has the real power?

[T-Bone]

Yeah but I did it effortlessly you're working hard for it.

[T-Bone]

Yeah but I like STD so I will heroically turn a blind eye.

[T-Bone]

Rad is town. So T-Bone has saysth it.

[T-Bone]

82

[T-Bone]

5% even!

[T-Bone]

STD said signatures don't count.

What a fake post restriction if I've ever saw one.

[T-Bone]

STD said signatures don't count.

What a fake post restriction if I've ever saw one.

Which part?

If signatures don't count, why not use them every post? In the very few posts you've made I don't feel like you've been either careful with your words or consistent in your application. It looks like to me you're making it up on the fly (or that you and your partner didn't agree how to fake the restriction).

I'm skeptical for other reasons that I'll discuss with the other players, but we can start there.

Look, I am aware that if the restriction is real I risk wasting your word counts or whatever, and you're limited in your ability to explain... but how everyone else reacted is exactly how you would want if you were faking a restriction. Sorry, thems the breaks.

[T-Bone]

I guess for everyone else. I'm sorry for metagaming a bit but I am hugely skeptical of a 100 word post restriction in a 26 player game on Day 1. There's no way for that player to communicate, and I'm not even sure that they could make enough posts to meet the minimum post requirement in a 14 day phase AND effectively play with us. Plus we are on pace for at least 100 pages. That's 1 word per page lolol

Already Cyto/Guan are applying the restriction inconsistency. Sure, it's possible a hydra would do that. I suspect it's because they didn't nail down exactly how they would fake it.

I also think that faking a post restriction, especially one about communication, is a safe Day 1 move. I can pressure them, others can pressure them, and they already have a built in excuse to ignore it.

/inb4boneisscumforlowhangingfruit

[T-Bone]

i agree that it seems fake af but have u ever played with rh9

that dude loves to talk. literally nonstop all the time. i dont understand he would decide to fake a pr that limits his ability to talk. it feels super anti fun.

Yeah but I believe both players are cerebral enough to come up with this.

[T-Bone]

It being non-fun is a good point I hadn't considered though.

[T-Bone]

But hear me out. Pagetop.

[T-Bone]

STD said signatures don't count.

What a fake post restriction if I've ever saw one.

Which part?

If signatures don't count, why not use them every post? In the very few posts you've made I don't feel like you've been either careful with your words or consistent in your application. It looks like to me you're making it up on the fly (or that you and your partner didn't agree how to fake the restriction).

I'm skeptical for other reasons that I'll discuss with the other players, but we can start there.

Look, I am aware that if the restriction is real I risk wasting your word counts or whatever, and you're limited in your ability to explain... but how everyone else reacted is exactly how you would want if you were faking a restriction. Sorry, thems the breaks.

If they were going to fake a restriction though, wouldn't you expect them to be doubly sure how they were going to go about it before committing? It strikes me as an especially convoluted and weird thing for a hydra to make up in particular on D1, when coordinating a hydra can be a difficult job anyway, especially if said hydra is scum. And given the size of the game, being able to successfully coast through D1 could be of limited advantage anyway considering there'll likely be lots of phases.

The mistakes are the reason I decided to call attention to it. I was suspicious when I first saw it but wasn't gonna bring it up right away. Maybe I should have let them make a few more mistakes before I said anything but that's on me.

Why EVER fake restrictions.

To make players like you ask that question rhetorically as if it was self evident they were town.

If you find yourself asking why would (player) do (thing) if they were scum...then my friend you are the gullible target audience.

[T-Bone]

My opinion on the Hydra posting restriction, is that if it is real he is likely in a neighborhood with Sun.

That would give the slot an outlet to talk as much as they waty, and a way to keep communicating after they have run out of words (Jin getting Sun to "translate" for him). We also know that there is at least 2 claimed neighborhoods at this point. Could be with Toog, or could be a 3rd hood.

That being said, I don't really have strong feelings about whether the PR restriction being town or scum indicative. I feel like, if it is real, STD had the idea as a way to represent Jin's flavor of struggling to communicate early on in the show before he learned english, and it likely would have been an idea before he randed the flavor alignments.

I gave the caveat of "I might be metagaming" for a reason. I brought it up because in my opinion, they have applied the post restriction inconsistently, making me think it's actually fake.

I feel like there could be one scum in Galron/Frog from their argument.

While I don't agree with T-Bone's view re the faked restriction, I think he's town for suggesting it. Seems like a theory unlikely to come from scum.

Can you explain what my theory is in your own words, and why you don't think scum can?

STD said signatures don't count.

What a fake post restriction if I've ever saw one.

Which part?

If signatures don't count, why not use them every post? In the very few posts you've made I don't feel like you've been either careful with your words or consistent in your application. It looks like to me you're making it up on the fly (or that you and your partner didn't agree how to fake the restriction).

I'm skeptical for other reasons that I'll discuss with the other players, but we can start there.

Look, I am aware that if the restriction is real I risk wasting your word counts or whatever, and you're limited in your ability to explain... but how everyone else reacted is exactly how you would want if you were faking a restriction. Sorry, thems the breaks.

If they were going to fake a restriction though, wouldn't you expect them to be doubly sure how they were going to go about it before committing? It strikes me as an especially convoluted and weird thing for a hydra to make up in particular on D1, when coordinating a hydra can be a difficult job anyway, especially if said hydra is scum. And given the size of the game, being able to successfully coast through D1 could be of limited advantage anyway considering there'll likely be lots of phases.

The mistakes are the reason I decided to call attention to it. I was suspicious when I first saw it but wasn't gonna bring it up right away. Maybe I should have let them make a few more mistakes before I said anything but that's on me.

Why EVER fake restrictions.

To make players like you ask that question rhetorically as if it was self evident they were town.

If you find yourself asking why would (player) do (thing) if they were scum...then my friend you are the gullible target audience.

do you think C+G are scum?

~GE

Leaning. It's the most suspicious thing I've seen in the first 24 hours. To be clear, the fact that I think they could be faking. The restriction could be real and that's not alignment indicative.

[T-Bone]

In retrospect I should have let them post a bit more before explaining my thoughts because I've now tainted the process for the rest of the day.

[T-Bone]

Nah not really. We can't force them to post if it's real, and I've provided the necessary cover if it's fake now.

[T-Bone]

You can voice your opinions, this is my party and I'll opine if I want to, opine if I want to. You would opine too if it happened to you!

[T-Bone]

Got any townreads other than Rad, T-Bone?

Me, I'm a town read.

There I read myself as town now no one can question the validity of my reads!

Its early, I have some feelings but not ones I think are worth sharing. Just to help ground to what I see. I believe the majority of posts people make aren't alignment indicative by themselves. I'll usually key in on one or two posts or a body of work. I haven't seen anyone post anything I'm looking for yet to help decide alignment, and it's too early for body of work.

I named Rad town to cool off what I felt was momentum against them. I have an impulse to try and protect people from railroading early on.

[T-Bone]

We can force them to post the rest of their 100 words under threat of being wagoned and then watch whether their slot is required to post again on D1?

I also don't want to cause that's not a fun thing to do. If the restriction is actually real then we'd just be dicks about it and that would make an unfun restriction even more unfun. The obligation is on them to not hide behind the post restriction at this point. We don't have any obligation to do anything about them at this stage.

[T-Bone]

What they mean is that I'm hilarious and you will quote everything I say.

[T-Bone]

I appreciate your commitment to the bit.

[T-Bone]

I appreciate your commitment to the bit.

I followed a link. I would like to just say that playing spyro blindfolded is both wild and impressive.

Pft.

I playing mafia blindfolded.

It's very evident.

[T-Bone]

Also, thanks Luke. The full game blindfolded is a work in progress.

[T-Bone]

I can't this is my ongoing war on terror against VCAers.

[T-Bone]

Controversial I lean town on Ceph now. And because we are brothers in arms against VCA is only a tiny portion of it. I dunno why you would see his posting and think scum tbh. Being flippant isn't much of a scumtell.

[T-Bone]

I'm told Luke's scum game is scary but equally he's had some good takes. I think he's probably a net positive on the game state.

Bruh Luke is an expert at writing "good takes" as scum

but he's not a day one issue

Bruh my scum game is way scarier anyway.

[T-Bone]

Bruh I'm at peak bandwidth

[T-Bone]

Bruh I'm at peak bandwidth

VOTE: T-bone

As IF you didn't appreciate this. What a scumclaim

[T-Bone]

do you usually do this sort of post by post catch up when you're town, Galron?

What exactly is he gonna say to this question except, yes???

[T-Bone]

Bruh.
Would I even do this if I were scum

Who is the gullible target audience for this one???

[T-Bone]

Okay I caught up. Someone talk me out of the vote I'm gonna make, cause it'll be on scum. You have until the time it takes for me to format the vote. Maybe through a segment of BB too. Ready. Set. Go.

i think the fact that u didnt follow this up with a vote makes u scummy.

:

VOTE: Off the Hook

Gottem

[T-Bone]

I can't this is my ongoing war on terror against VCAers.

VOTE: T-Bone

Why?
I like T-Bone.

Inside joke, I wouldn't worry about it at this stage.

[T-Bone]

Okay I caught up. Someone talk me out of the vote I'm gonna make, cause it'll be on scum. You have until the time it takes for me to format the vote. Maybe through a segment of BB too. Ready. Set. Go.

i think the fact that u didnt follow this up with a vote makes u scummy.

:

VOTE: Off the Hook

Gottem

But to get serious for a moment. I get that I am making a lot of jokey and taunting posts in this game, that I would understand if anyone thought that was all I was doing. I like to have fun between more serious posts because of how often I believe players actually make alignment indicative posts (hint: not often). But this post I quoted is a long 'catch up' post. Certainly by 704 you'd have enough context to, if you wanted to key in on how I'm playing, go after my game posts, and not this random one. But you didn't and here we are, me following through, and you being.... followed through on...question mark?

[T-Bone]

For the first time in this game I sat down at my computer to craft a post so...good job I guess?

[T-Bone]

Free pagetop coming, who's ready for the layup?

[T-Bone]

Unexpected!

[T-Bone]

More corwinoid votes for saying they were gunna catch up and then never catching up.
Lim all liars.

I'm sorry everyone, I've been our the last day and a half with some unexpected family issues, I'm catching up now.

@Bell are you seriously kidding me?

VOTE: Bell

Ezclap

[T-Bone]

Low blow post on a VLA player aside, I feel a lot of manipulation coming from Bell's posts in the last 12 hours. Galton so helpfully quotes 941 for example. Bell is recanting now that there's pushback. Bell very clearly stated Corwin was lying about catching up. But in 941 we retcon to "oh well Corwin could just be scum because of random draw". (I am paraphrasing) Yeah, no shit. Then it's 'no big deal if we eliminate a content less player'. What a goalpost shift if I've ever saw one.

I'm also starting to find the way Bell decides whom to think could be scum or town to be arbitrary. I get that Bell is a meta player, and it's well documented I think meta is trash... but I feel Bell has applied this inconsistently thus far. Maybe someone else who feels like they use meta can comment on this. Some players get meta dives, some players get recollections from previous games, and some players Bell just takes someone else's word for it. I understand that not all 25 player slots can be treated equally 48 hours into the game. What Bell does feels to me more like just searching for an elimination for the sake of an elimination, rather than for the sake of eliminating scum. I know Bell has already said to the effect that he'll support any lim that isn't him but that's not really a defense for scummy behavior, just an excuse. It's way too early in the day phase for that.

The tl;dr is come to my aid trash meta users :p

[T-Bone]

Low blow post on a VLA player aside, I feel a lot of manipulation coming from Bell's posts in the last 12 hours. Galton so helpfully quotes 941 for example. Bell is recanting now that there's pushback. Bell very clearly stated Corwin was lying about catching up. But in 941 we retcon to "oh well Corwin could just be scum because of random draw". (I am paraphrasing) Yeah, no shit. Then it's 'no big deal if we eliminate a content less player'. What a goalpost shift if I've ever saw one.

I'm also starting to find the way Bell decides whom to think could be scum or town to be arbitrary. I get that Bell is a meta player, and it's well documented I think meta is trash... but I feel Bell has applied this inconsistently thus far. Maybe someone else who feels like they use meta can comment on this. Some players get meta dives, some players get recollections from previous games, and some players Bell just takes someone else's word for it. I understand that not all 25 player slots can be treated equally 48 hours into the game. What Bell does feels to me more like just searching for an elimination for the sake of an elimination, rather than for the sake of eliminating scum. I know Bell has already said to the effect that he'll support any lim that isn't him but that's not really a defense for scummy behavior, just an excuse. It's way too early in the day phase for that.

The tl;dr is come to my aid trash meta users :p

All in all, I think that Bell is town so far.

Bell Alignment Flow Chart

Does Bell have more posts then me this game?

If yes->Town
If no-> Scum

That is a hyperbole, but the fact that he is the number two poster this game is a good sign for him in my opinion. Also tone stuff makes me think town.

I know Bell has already said to the effect that he'll support any lim that isn't him but that's not really a defense for scummy behavior, just an excuse. It's way too early in the day phase for that.

This line in particular feels like you read that line from him completely divorced from the context of the conversation where he said it

Spoiler: Relevant Quotes

I wish I could vote 5-8 people right now.

You could always just put a list of people you'd be willing to vote for instead of actually voting

No order:

Pooky
Cephrir
Penguin(?)
Corwin
CSF

Bell, do you have thoughts on Frog or Galron?

I don't like them.

So you don't like them, but they are not on you list of vote considerations?

There's a difference between who I'm willing to vote versus who I want to vote right now.
I'm willing to vote anyone but me if the argument or the circumstances are good enough.
I want to vote those people.

He had a distinct list of people he wanted to vote, I asked about 2 other people, he said that he would be willing to vote them (or anyone if he had too) but they were not his preference.

I feel like the context of that conversation makes the "It's way too early in the day phase for that." part of you point moot imo.

I don't agree with your interpretation of 878

[T-Bone]

Like I understand the context of being asked who he is leaning on voting on. What I'm saying in 878 is that its a statement Bell made that supports my observation that his reads and the way he's gone about them feels arbitrary to me. Not that it's the end all be all statement.

[T-Bone]

I think you're giving him credit "reaching the right circumstances" rather than taking the conversation and what he said as is. I can see why you read it that way, but I think the credit you're giving him here is unearned. I think you're giving him credit because you feel you know him as a player rather than reacting to what he's saying and how he's playing.

[T-Bone]

I guess so, you were there I wasn't, let's set that aside. I was hoping you'd chime in on my post, but I was hoping you'd look into more of what I called arbitrary use of meta. It's not a strategy I personally believe is effective, so I can't fairly critique whether he's using it effectively or not. Maybe he is, I don't know. It doesn't look like it, but it's also something I wouldn't spend time.doing myself. I don't get the same sense from you, if that helps contrast.

[T-Bone]

Just to provide context where I'm coming from. In my experience it's incredibly easy as scum to manipulate players who rely on meta to form their reads. It's also incredibly easy as scum to fake the work of doing meta reads. So, when I analyze a player who says they are forming reads based on meta, the question is always ask myself is "is this real effort or fake?" Which I know is incredibly a vague thing to look for. It's always a feeling for me. Sometimes I get it right and sometimes I don't.

We probably also don't use the same terminology so me saying meta dive in retrospect is unhelpful.

[T-Bone]

Maybe you're right in that I'm mistaking familiarity/comfort with some players over others as being arbitrary.

[T-Bone]

Try to metaread me.

No <3

Why

Meta is trash

[T-Bone]

Just to provide context where I'm coming from. In my experience it's incredibly easy as scum to manipulate players who rely on meta to form their reads. It's also incredibly easy as scum to fake the work of doing meta reads. So, when I analyze a player who says they are forming reads based on meta, the question is always ask myself is "is this real effort or fake?" Which I know is incredibly a vague thing to look for. It's always a feeling for me. Sometimes I get it right and sometimes I don't.

We probably also don't use the same terminology so me saying meta dive in retrospect is unhelpful.

Maybe you're right in that I'm mistaking familiarity/comfort with some players over others as being arbitrary.

I will try to iso Bell tonight to look for this in particular.

Also, I use meta dive to mean actively going out to read other games. CSF did one earlier for frogster

I do too, probably confusing familiarity with that.

I was definitely annoyed by the Corwin vote, I don't like when players mess around with VLA, so I definitely went looking for trouble, guaranteeing I would find it. I've had this general 'idk' feeling about Bell but it wasn't enough for me to voice prior.

[T-Bone]

I was under the impression Titus typically declined to heavily VCA D1.

Yes and in the KTANE game she read my slot as town D1 based on dayplay without VCA. I don't think she's ever FoSed my slot in any game we've played in before based on VCA or dayplay. It seems a little convenient she would FoS it now based on a skim when I'm the leading counterwagon to BBT.

My wagon sprang up to counter yours, actually.

Technically, I'm the counter wagon to you.

I was gonna say what Ceph said but then I got distracted by your signature and now we are comrades in arms.

[T-Bone]

*Back pats T-bone*
You're wrong try again.
Also hi Taly!

Oof bad posting.

[T-Bone]

Snapshot

[T-Bone]

actually as I set up this excel table I realize it might be useful to see where everyone is on townreads/null too since it's not that much work to add that info in.

so in your next post pls list the entire PL in the following format:

[Townreads]:
NAMES

[Null]:
NAMES

[Want to Murder]:
NAMES


Mine were listed in 883 and I've been busy so I haven't actually updated them yet.

Basically just sort the entire PL into 3 lists cuz its easier for data collection

{Best Bird}

{PookyTheMagicalBear}

{Dunnstral, JohnnyFarrar, T-Bone, Lukewarm}

{Malakittens, Taly, Galron, Roden, Rad, Corwinoid, Dwlee99, Bellaphant, Klick, Bell, Cytosine and Guanine, Cat Scratch Fever}

{Dancing Puppets, MalcolmTucker, Frogsterking, The toad}

{Off the Hook, Cephrir}

{BlueBloodedToffee}

{}

anyone yellow or below can go

We don't have a Best Bird in this player list. What a scumclaim.

[T-Bone]

Haven't really committed to anything yet. I believe in keeping most players in the middle, lest I write them off. I even debated whether to lean town on Luke and decided it would be spicier if I did so. But I made a three tiered list so reap what you sow, Poopy.

Town Lean
Ceph
Johnny
Dunn
Luke

Null
BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets
Malakittens
Taly
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Galron
Frogsterking
Roden
Rad
Corwinoid
The toad
Enchant
Dwlee99
Bellaphant
Klick
Cytosine and Guanine
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

If I Had to Vote Lean
Off the Hook
Bell

[T-Bone]

It's basically your own fault if you're further down the list, just saying. Sign up earlier next time.

[T-Bone]

By the way younger T-Bone would scoff at the idea of posting a reads list and fight over it instead as dumb, so I'm getting soft in my old age.

[T-Bone]

But my reads are perfect like this post.

[T-Bone]

That's about CSF, Pooky reversed on them and feels their posting is too naturalistic to be scum this game. They are apparently *bad at mafia* and their "Plz don't get me banned Bell" made me feel a lot better about it because I always feel that way when people just town bin me for posting a lot. Even though, like, my scum game is crap because my town game is too insane to emulate.
Even though, I honestly think it's very in line for Pooky to want to defend their partners I don't think it fits with CSF and they did eventually start to try so I'm happy there.

Also, I don't know why but Taly asked what I thought about T-bone in the neighborhood.
Now, Luke an friends. I don't want you to get triggered because of shakesphere where I was like "posting in neighborhoods was bad" but I actually hold that stance as either alignment because I genuinely think it' a great place to pocket folk.

So when I say I responded to that post with:

1. T-bone doesn't like thread controllers, not sure why they're pushing at a super active player who sorts themselves. But don't see much point picking a fight for them from scum. Not sure why they didn't do anything when they got corrected by Luke, maybe they're inflexiable. Scum, but let's be real if that's true, that's just sad. So maybe the fact they haven't adapted at all is because they're just stubborn. Or something. I have no idea. I don't play with T-bone.

(inhalation)

That was quite the run on sentence wasn't it?

Well, you got the first 5 words of that right! But you are giving yourself way too much credit it was all Luke

[T-Bone]

But my reads are perfect like this post.

you are going to fall in my reads if this continues

Yeah but rise in the leaderboards, so I think I'm the real winner.

[T-Bone]

pfft Bird Boy

[T-Bone]

I even debated whether to lean town on Luke and decided it would be spicier if I did so.

I don't feel like I am a particularly spicy person to town read?

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one person who is vocally suspicious of me atp

It's spicy for me.

[T-Bone]

{Best Bird}

{PookyTheMagicalBear}

{JohnnyFarrar, T-Bone, Lukewarm}

{Malakittens, Taly, Galron, Roden, Rad, Corwinoid, Dwlee99, Bellaphant, Klick, Bell, Cytosine and Guanine, Cat Scratch Fever, Enchant}

{Dancing Puppets, MalcolmTucker, Frogsterking, The toad}

{Off the Hook, Cephrir, Dunnstral}

{BlueBloodedToffee}

{}

Ha you didn't move me down, what a scumclaim.

[T-Bone]

I still need readlists from the following people:

BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
Taly Toogeloo
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Cephrir
Roden
Corwinoid
The toad
Enchant
Dwlee99
Bellaphant
Klick
T-Bone

You absolutely do not

[T-Bone]

Make me bruv

[T-Bone]

I'm just memeing

I understand this is a large game and things can be missed but in light of that that's a yikes. Corwin is about as likely to be scum as the other 24 players in this list.

[T-Bone]

Now my corvid.... Corwin, I'll defend your right to catch up to a point, and I don't care if you actually play Pooky's silly game. But like, you're demonstrating that you're not paying that much attention by using me as an excuse to cover for not providing reads. Provide them or not, but I cannot be your shield for the choices you make.

[T-Bone]

omg I hate you vets and how you interact! It's all a big inside joke TT

With the exception of one comment I made to Penguin about peak bandwidth I'm not making inside jokes. I'm not here to alienate anyone.

Sometimes there are times to post and sometimes there are times to taunt. And when those times are I make up on the fly.

[T-Bone]

Now my corvid.... Corwin, I'll defend your right to catch up to a point, and I don't care if you actually play Pooky's silly game. But like, you're demonstrating that you're not paying that much attention by using me as an excuse to cover for not providing reads. Provide them or not, but I cannot be your shield for the choices you make.

Check my history on that one if you want bro, I am staunchly against read lists and think they're easy ways to fake being involved without actually doing anything.

Meta is trash. And again, how you play is up to you. You should have led with that instead of what you did, if true.

[T-Bone]

omg I hate you vets and how you interact! It's all a big inside joke TT

With the exception of one comment I made to Penguin about peak bandwidth I'm not making inside jokes. I'm not here to alienate anyone.

Sometimes there are times to post and sometimes there are times to taunt. And when those times are I make up on the fly.

I haven't had time to play Mafia in about 6 months, so if I'm being a little extra anyone can let me know and I'll tone it down. I'm not trying to make anyone feel like this game isn't fun.

[T-Bone]

I'm really disappointed in all the town reads on me. If you're trying to pocket me...just know that it's working and I hate it. Someone spice up my life with a scumread please.

[T-Bone]

With the exception of one comment I made to Penguin about peak bandwidth I'm not making inside jokes.

I can't this is my ongoing war on terror against VCAers.

VOTE: T-Bone

Why?
I like T-Bone.

Inside joke, I wouldn't worry about it at this stage.

I'm really disappointed in all the town reads on me. If you're trying to pocket me...just know that it's working and I hate it. Someone spice up my life with a scumread please.

Obviously lying scum. Got ya.

Okay you can't catch up with the game but have time to find that?

I'm impressed and exasperated okay you've officially pocketed me good work.

[T-Bone]

Ceph

T-bone

you dirty scum bag.

You are so obviously scum that I cannot imagine myself ever changing that read, and I am read to self vote on the promise that the town kills you immediately tomorrow.

(Please, please don't omgus me so that this turns into a 10 page shouting match that everyone then comments on and takes sides before eventually deciding we were tvt, and discounting the whole argument but then deciding to kill whoever we think was the most opportunitistic in the way in which they picked sides)

Weak. You could learn a thing or two from Corwin

[T-Bone]

Yeah okay I change my reads list Pooky, Corwin is confirmed town.

[T-Bone]

Look at these weaklings.

VOTE: t-bone

What's better than a pocketed t-bone? A dead one. Wagon I summon thee.

Who are you?

[T-Bone]

Damn played myself in with the topper.

[T-Bone]

I think you're lost, newbie queue is three sections above this.

[T-Bone]

So you don't care about my read and you don't want to explain your reads

Not really, no. I care about your reads on the player list as a whole and I'll answer specific questions you ask which I can understand.

Why?

Because whatever reasoning brought you to the conclusion that I'm scum is incorrect. I also can't explain anything to you unless I can understand what kind of information you're looking for. As long as I can understand what you're asking and you aren't asking too much I'm willing to try to answer.

Why are you scum reading me then if you think I'm just wrong??

I think you've done nothing before this point to indicate to me that you're town, and I previously scumread you based on process of elimination and activity level. My read going into this evening was that I can reason my way to 1/3 in this game, and I believed there to be 1 scum between you/BBT/Corwin.

I do think that the way you're arguing with me now is more like a Town who is just wrong. That's new information though, I didn't start to think that until shortly after I read 1419.

One scum in Roden/BBT/Corwin is such an eclectic group to tie together. What interactions do they have that leads you to believe this?

List is roughly ordered

TOWN
Klick
Frogsterking
Cat Scratch Fever
Rad
JohnnyFarrar
Bellaphant
Lukewarm
Pooky

[gap]
Off the Hook
PenguinPower
MalcolmTucker
Cytosine and Guanine

NULL
Taly
Malakittens
Dancing Puppets
Galron
Roden
Corwinoid
Enchant
Dwlee99
Dunnstral
The toad
T-Bone

SCUM
Bell
BlueBloodedToffee
Cephrir

Tell me about why you put Bell here.

[T-Bone]

i think tbone focusing on how hes "not like the other girls" is another thing i dont like about him, i think the energy he uses to explain that could better be used elsewhere

I have the energy to do everything tyvm

[T-Bone]

I just realized Toog has only posted twice and now I'm tilting my head at the suspicion there.

I'm failing to see the issue with Toog's 413 since it's practically standalone, there was not much time for Toog to follow-up with his perspective before an accident (I hope he's okay ). And as a first post, the context of claiming role information and conflating it with alignment has a town motive in gauging reactions.

Do....you not know??

[T-Bone]

Tell me about why you put Bell here.

I think Bell is hyper-aware of how he's perceived by others in a way that I see as likely coming from scum

Hey finally something new from someone, I like it.

Roles are not revealed upon kills, but alignment is. There may or may not be ways to uncover roles. Flavor is not revealed upon flip.

Oh I'm silly. For some reason I thought that alignment wasn't revealed and was thinking this game was going to be a total pain to figure out

Funny thing, I had that very same thought at the start of the game, until one moment I was checking the player list and re-read the rule. Interesting.

See I'm not hip on scum BBt right now. It's too easy to catch a scum read early and then every thing you do comes under heavier scrutiny and is presumed scummy. Rebutting that presumption puts you on the defensive and THAT looks bad. It just kinda snowballs.

Good posting.

One scum in Roden/BBT/Corwin is such an eclectic group to tie together. What interactions do they have that leads you to believe all this?

It was based on PoE, not interactions.

I'm rethinking my PoE based on Rad's point about Blue's activity levels, my new take last night that Roden is townie, and CSF's initial gut take that Corwin is townie.

Assuming that my PoE was wrong, which seems likely, there is at least one scum who is collecting town reads, and Corwin/BBT/Roden may be getting scapegoated to some extent. I think Ceph is a great example of a slot who fits what I'm looking for and is playing well within their scum range.

PoE as in process of elimination? Like you mostly townlean the rest of the player list or what? I'm not following what you're saying.

It concerns me, though, that Frog conveniently forgot about mala who's been both low activity and low content when she is posting. It annoyed the hell out of me that people were up my ass for dealing with life issues, when mala's getting a pass with posts like

why is there 31 pages

NoU

-.-

mew

Actually that he's looking at every *other* low activity player is bothersome.

To be fair, he wasn't the only one. Re:Bell against well...you, for example. So like you're right that it's bad/scummy, but it's not unique to Frogster.

Spoiler: Readlists So Far

Highlights so far:

BBT is the most susp'd person - 14 scumreads 0 townreads.
Lukewarm is the most townread person - 19 townreads 0 scumreads.

Okay, Luke is right that white diagonal is satisfying. I thought this exercise was silly and didn't want to impede your fun but okay I buy it, at least so far for the pretty visuals.

I think I want to move Dwlee, Galron, and Corwin if you haven't already to lean town.

[T-Bone]

Let me help you with your vca argument: counterwagons are a fake concept 99 times out of 100

Confirm town this man

[T-Bone]

My man, Frog!

If anyone still thinks Frog is scum, you need to give your head a wobble.

I'm the counter to his wagon and EVERYONE is scum reading me. It's so easy for scum!Frog to go along with this to kill his wagon completely.

Frog is town. So am I. Now go find scum. Thanks.

I thought you were getting run up pretty flimsyily but I do not like this. The last time I saw this argument both players were scum lol. How strange.

[T-Bone]

meta

vca is trash

[T-Bone]

I thought you were getting run up pretty flimsyily but I do not like this. The last time I saw this argument both players were scum lol. How strange.

Ewwww.

The last time I got wagoned I was town. So what?

You're just citing an event. I'm citing something you stated as a reason to give a read. The way you try to pretend those are somehow the same thing is gross.

[T-Bone]

My man, Frog!

If anyone still thinks Frog is scum, you need to give your head a wobble.

I'm the counter to his wagon and EVERYONE is scum reading me. It's so easy for scum!Frog to go along with this to kill his wagon completely.

Frog is town. So am I. Now go find scum. Thanks.

I thought you were getting run up pretty flimsyily but I do not like this. The last time I saw this argument both players were scum lol. How strange.

I have never seen this particular argument from scum buddies but I think I can recall only one game ever where scum this confidently tr their buddies like this.

Obviously it's not a thing that's universal. People make decisions independent of other people. I know for example, and I know this is a rabbit hole, if I know a player or players are likely to believe something is fact (or likely), I'm gonna lean into it.

I think BBT's response to my observation is way way worse than the observation I made.

[T-Bone]

Lol a little omgus as a treat.

[T-Bone]

I get the sense Johnny is a low content poster overall. Sorry Johnny.

[T-Bone]

it's ok t-bone we can go make our own little encampment on Correct Island and throw rocks at everyone else

The plane doesn't crash when it flies over our island!

[T-Bone]

I thought you were getting run up pretty flimsyily but I do not like this. The last time I saw this argument both players were scum lol. How strange.

Ewwww.

The last time I got wagoned I was town. So what?

You're just citing an event. I'm citing something you stated as a reason to give a read. The way you try to pretend those are somehow the same thing is gross.

Why is that “gross”?

That it's not the same thing and I find BBT to be trying to manipulate other people who might read the exchange. It worked on you so I guess...?

[T-Bone]

I pointed it out in my ongoing quest against the "why would scum do this" and "scum can't possibly do this" crowd. Scum can do anything they set their little hearts to.

[T-Bone]

I'm glad BBT has settled into saying I suck though
Thanks for making me look so good, I appreciate it.

[T-Bone]

T-bone's posting isn't making any sense for anyone paying attention.

Explain?

T-Bone tracks IMO, even if the conclusion is wrong.

What do you read BBT as and why?

[T-Bone]

I look good doing this too.

[T-Bone]

T-bone's posting isn't making any sense for anyone paying attention.

Explain?

T-Bone tracks IMO, even if the conclusion is wrong.

What do you read BBT as and why?

Nullish. I can see him doing everything he's done so far as scum or town, and deciding to do it for scum, town, or metablocking reasons.

I think he's barking up the wrong tree here, but I can't put a finger on why I town read you other than "vibe" either.

Funny enough I agree.

[T-Bone]

If you build it, they will come.

[T-Bone]

Spoiler:

Let me help you with your vca argument: counterwagons are a fake concept 99 times out of 100

Not true, while obviously not foolproof, they are often far more useful than that.

VCAs for example rarely have two competing scumwagons though it does happen, so in like approximately 78% of cases, if you flip scum. the cw is statistically highly likely to be town.

im not interested in an extended argument about how probability works since it invariably convinces no one of anything, so i will just stop at "that isn't how probability works"

+1 with the exception if anyone here is a stats teacher. I've been persuaded once before using probability by a retired stats teacher.

I have a math degree. I hate explaining math to people. Unless it's incredibly relevant I'm keeping 'real' stats out of my entertainment life.

I thought you were getting run up pretty flimsyily but I do not like this. The last time I saw this argument both players were scum lol. How strange.

Ewwww.

The last time I got wagoned I was town. So what?

Also not how stats works.

@Corwin

You don't have to engage if you don't want to, I know you don't want an extended discussion, but I thought you might want a brief chance to flex. I consider it potentially AI and there is something I'm looking for.

I'm mainly looking to hear if I'm on the right track or I need to retake 101.

My problem with Dancing Puppets claim is that even if I accept her results are are both true and applicable to any situations within this game, it doesn't provide evidence that her theory about CW has "predictive utility", because her results don't indicate to me that the CW slot is any likelier to flip town (78%) than any other random slot after 1 scum is taken out of the pool. Her argument is incomplete at best because she fails to specify what situation she's referring to (limlo? 13 player? 10 town - 5 scum?) and what the random chance to flip town should be if the CW placement has no effect. 78% sounds like a number which can be achieved by random chance anyway, depending on the setup and the Day, which makes me suspicious about her argument.

I also don't like her argument that a scum v scum counterwagon is unlikely for a similar reason, because 2 scum wagons are unlikely to be selected simultaneously by random chance anyway. Her statement being true doesn't provide evidence that her theory about the CW has predictive utility unless a CW has a statistically significant effect on the flip rate compared to the random chance of any other slot, which is something she can't provide meaningful evidence for anecdotally, even if her intuition is ultimately correct.

Do you think I am a stats noob or do you think I retained some information from my psychology courses?

To be honest, and I'm getting into game theory slightly. This is why I say meta/vca is trash. It's part meme, but also because players can take advantage of that when their scum by providing meta/vca in lieu of game solving.

It's not a commentary on the Puppets at this point, I don't think they've done enough for me to say whether they are faking content or not.

[T-Bone]

I know that was directed at Corwin and tangentially related to what you said, but I think it's a useful consideration while you consider if this in alignment indicative or not.

[T-Bone]

I'm moving Bell and Taly to my won't eliminate list today. I guess Bell can be coded null on my list if you want, Pooky.

[T-Bone]

My problem with Dancing Puppets claim is that even if I accept her results are are both true and applicable to any situations within this game, it doesn't provide evidence that her theory about CW has "predictive utility"

This is essentially true, for more reasons than stated. The real problem is the convolution of stats and probability; stating something has happened X% of the time (the statistic) doesn't inherently give it an X% probability of happening unless you're talking about independent

random

events. We're not talking about random events though, and the probability of it being S/S is dependent on the probability of those slots is scum in the first place. So the mistake being made is using a statistic to define a probability that it doesn't actually define.

I had something else to say after that, but got interrupted for inane BS and lost my train of thought.

I also don't like her argument that a scum v scum counterwagon is unlikely for a similar reason, because 2 scum wagons are unlikely to be selected simultaneously by random chance anyway.

I actually don't like this either though. I haven't (and have no intention of) looked at statistics for how likely town is to hunt scum vs. random selection, but my gut intuition is that it would be better than random chance. If that's the case, the odds of town splitting and picking two scum wagons at the same time would probably be higher than expected, as unintuitive as that might seem.

I just noticed - 7 people scumreading Bell! how does that feel

It makes sense. Colloquial expression: I’m up in their grill trying to find if there’s scum in it, but people think I stole something or are just annoyed.

Seven is the sweet spot I'm trying to get there myself.

[T-Bone]

Dunno why I quoted Corwin, fat fingers I guess.

[T-Bone]

1918 and 1930 I appreciate, and I appreciate Cor going into the topic during your time off. My main takeaways are an increased skepticism on Puppets level of motivation to solve in this game, a slight town lean on the Cor slot, the danger of conflating probability with statistics (and I need to review the definition of random events), and the point how scum v scum wagons might be more common than I've been giving them credit for.

Shit I think you might be town now, what an amphibian

[T-Bone]

I plan to use my platform as Confirmed Town to start a new wagon tonight. Buy like, 5 hours from now.

Stay tuned

Come at me bruh

[T-Bone]

I plan to use my platform as Confirmed Town to start a new wagon tonight. Buy like, 5 hours from now.

Stay tuned

Yeah but you're biased.

[T-Bone]

Wow fat fingers again, that was at Frogster

[T-Bone]

Spoiler:

For the record I like a frog vote. Dude seems shady. Lemme look at a plist and I'll give you the ones who should live to d2

Also Corwin talked a bit about his problems elsewhere, they're real and we should give him space.

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone

Can you go into these reads some more, and talk about why you're voting Frogster?

Post restriction has me curious. Not necessarily a townread but I would like to, y'know,

play

with Irch and RH9

I like T-Bone, and I don't think scum T-Bone picks a fight with the post restricted hydra here

Frogger seems to be... fake? Like sometimes they'll post something and I'll think to myself "there's no way they actually believe this"

Stand BACK while I post my ROCK SOLID D1 case on Frogger everybody. It'll have quotes and everything

Johnny is the above still the best you have?

Because what you wrote about your read on me is terrible.

Wow fat fingers again, that was at Frogster

Do you think what Johnny wrote about his read on me is objectively terrible, or is it just me?

I mean I lean town on him so I think he's fine.

Trust me, I get the impulse when someone does something bad directed at you. It's something I fight all the time, not always successfully. I don't think you can objectively look at it since it's directed at you.

[T-Bone]

meta vca

math is trash

[T-Bone]

meta vca

math is trash

*looks at wall*
*agrees*

Wow I feel that in my soul, Corwin is officially my mason.

[T-Bone]

Gottem

[T-Bone]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35197

I dare anyone to tell me this isn’t town!Marci.

this isn't town!Marci.

[T-Bone]

Your forgot the exclamation point.

[T-Bone]

pooky/t-bone i want to hear your take of marci!scum

I'ma be honest I don't know who Marci is.

[T-Bone]

pooky/t-bone i want to hear your take of marci!scum

I'ma be honest I don't know who Marci is.

off the hook

hydra

I was joking cause they are in a hydra.

I have Off the Hook as a scumlean but I don't remember why off the top of my head and I haven't reevaluated as of yet since I haven't found anything they've posted recently that caught my eye. But like if you have a meta reason for reading them town, that doesn't resonate with me, so I couldn't engage you on that point.

[T-Bone]

Explain that please. Why?

[T-Bone]

Sorry that was at Puppets.

[T-Bone]

Also, hi

[T-Bone]

klick might be more polarized then bell ngl

Is this a read or just a spreadsheet comment?

After doing some reading, I am narrowed down where I want to move my vote to either Corwinoid and The Toad, but struggling to decided between the two.

Maybe they should just be dueling wagons?

You promised me a wagon 6 hours ago and this is what I get??? What a scumclaim

[T-Bone]

I plan to use my platform as Confirmed Town to start a new wagon tonight. Buy like, 5 hours from now.

Stay tuned

Lim all liars bay-bay!

[T-Bone]

Ominous cause I set an alarm for Luke's big wagon reveal. I have been cheated.

[T-Bone]

VOTE: The Toad

We can start Luke's wagon for him and give him a nice surprise when he comes back

I appreciate you, but it's just not the same.

[T-Bone]

Pooky before we get near a real flip, I think you should share your doc editing rights with someone you can trust, so we can keep up that spreadsheet in case you're targeted. Cause damn it's so good.

VOTE: Toad

be the change you want to see in the world T-Bone

Oof I'm tempted, but following CSF?

[T-Bone]

Feel Ceph has been going for awhile. He's fine. Leave Brittany alone

[T-Bone]

Okay you can move Toad to red for me, Pooky. Gonna sit with it for a bit, see if it feels right.

[T-Bone]

Corwin, talk more about your read on me? In our newbie, you said you came into the game with a lean scum read on me before you replaced in.

Given that, why are you suddenly so paranoid about trying to read me?

I'm down for a Toad wagon as well. Haven't seen much from them in the 20 pages I've read but enough to vote.

Nobody interested in Penguin?

Be the change you want to see.

UNVOTE: Johnny

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Bellaphant, ?, ?, ?, ?]

Why? do you think bella is pocketing me with their latest post?

Wow, what an odd conclusion to jump to. I can't quite describe my feeling...but it's like when you see a player post something and you feel they have a guilty mind about it.

[T-Bone]

Your thinking just feels really divorced from what was happening around it, like...who were you the counter to, what was happening with frog/ceph, why did your lack of contributions stick out more than say...toogs/corwins/whatever, rather just onto discrediting it. I used worried as it feels like you are using it a bit to avoid progressing the game, it feels backwards focused rather than forward.

Also, your response reminds me a lot of the response to my shit vca.

It feels strange to me that you seem to be not really engaging with the fact that your counter was ceph, who you also don't want people to vote. I actually share 2/3 of your other scum reads, so this point bugs me.

These posts really bother me. Ceph you probably get why.

Framing Ceph as BBT's counterwagon (or vise versa) is just factually incorrect in the context of the game. Which is strange because Bella spent a few posts telling BBT how they were ignoring the context of the naked votes they quoted. Like, they were independent of each other and if you're a player that puts stocks into scum driven counterwagons then Frogster is the correct contextual choice in that scenario.

[T-Bone]

I'm sorry? In what way does that respond to my post on Penguin?

I was suggesting you vote for him? Didn't look like you had.

[T-Bone]

Must have missed the vote. For what it's worth I would agree much more with the Penguin vote than Dunn, I think he's been pretty townie.

[T-Bone]

What do you think about Bellaphant right now?

[T-Bone]

Must have missed the vote. For what it's worth I would agree much more with the Penguin vote than Dunn, I think he's been pretty townie.

I’ve played lots of games with Dunn and scum!Dunn either just coasts or pushes really suspicious tunnels. I think both are probably town here.

I don't have an opinion on Penguin he just hasn't done anything this game of worth. I just think Dunn is town.

[T-Bone]

@t bone, that's ...weird. I don't care about frog in this convo - I think he's town, the wagon on them is boring, I do care about ceph because bbt was defending him, to me. The ceph and bbt wagon both change a fair bit over a short time, which is what I was talking about. (also, I literally say frog/ceph?)

Toad and t bone are throwing shade at me for stuff that is demonstrably not happening, it's frustrating

It's a post you made about things that were happening while ignoring the context of them. I'm sorry you find that frustrating but that's a thing you said and a thing you in my opinion conveniently ignored.

[T-Bone]

You said Ceph was a counterwagon to BBT when clearly that wasn't happening. One wasn't in response to the other. If anything BBT and Ceph at different points were counterwagons to Frogster. That you read Frog as town doesn't really change things. It's plausible that Frog was simply in your Blindspot because of that read, but from an outsider looking in, if you are placing importance on the idea of counterwagons and then not applying them evenly it looks intentional to me.

[T-Bone]

I quoted those posts because they felt weird to me and explained why. You can have been sincere and I can feel they were weird. Those aren't mutually exclusive things.

[T-Bone]

Okay I get you.

[T-Bone]

Oh darn my confirmed town mason buddy is gone

[T-Bone]

I really hate 2430 rawr.

Hating on good posting. Sad.

{Best Bird}

{PookyTheMagicalBear}

{JohnnyFarrar, Lukewarm, Bell}

{Malakittens, Galron, Roden, Rad, Mathblade, Dwlee99, Bellaphant, Klick, Cytosine and Guanine, Enchant, T-Bone}

{Taly, MalcolmTucker, Frogsterking, The toad, Cat Scratch Fever, Dunnstral}

{Off the Hook, Cephrir, Dancing Puppets}

{BlueBloodedToffee}

{}

Wow only moving me down to null? Come on.

[T-Bone]

I really hate 2430 rawr.

{Best Bird}

{PookyTheMagicalBear}

{JohnnyFarrar, Lukewarm, Bell}

{Malakittens, Galron, Roden, Rad, Mathblade, Dwlee99, Bellaphant, Klick, Cytosine and Guanine, Enchant, T-Bone}

{Taly, MalcolmTucker, Frogsterking, The toad, Cat Scratch Fever, Dunnstral}

{Off the Hook, Cephrir, Dancing Puppets}

{BlueBloodedToffee}

{}

I also don't want to lim Johnny succckkaaass

[T-Bone]

Lol fat fingers strike again

[T-Bone]

Actually I think this time my browser didn't clear my multiquotes cause I used the back button so maybe that's on me

[T-Bone]

Wow only moving me down to null? Come on.

<3

Wait till you see how much I am slapping you in pagetops

[T-Bone]

Math replaced into a town slot so like take a chill pill

[T-Bone]

That's directed at anyone with a pill that needs to chill.

[T-Bone]

After doing some reading, I am narrowed down where I want to move my vote to either Corwinoid and The Toad, but struggling to decided between the two.

Maybe they should just be dueling wagons?

If Math contradicts my confirmed town mason claim then we can know he's actually scum.

[T-Bone]

By the way Pooky I think the page 100 pagetop deserves bonus points.

[T-Bone]

What a scumclaim with Pooky. Huge plot twist.

[T-Bone]

Math replaced into a town slot so like take a chill pill

After doing some reading, I am narrowed down where I want to move my vote to either Corwinoid and The Toad, but struggling to decided between the two.

Maybe they should just be dueling wagons?

If Math contradicts my confirmed town mason claim then we can know he's actually scum.

I’m confused by this.

That's okay. I'll tell you when you're older.

Even youtube advice cannot help me. I knew it was a mistake to play a new category of game without like paying a billion other games of the type. But you have to start somewhere.
Rip.

Oh well.

I'm happy to kill someone soon. Who are we missing from the list of reads lists Pooky?

VOTE: Bell

I wanna see where this goes.

The DNA of their posts feels funny. Like my inner voice pings me.

Are you even better than Corwin? Please don't play with my heart.

[T-Bone]

do you just post to read what you write?

Wut

*sigh* you say you like my "greens" implying that you like my town reads but at the same time say that my reads are uninsightful - read: bad - so....talking out both sides = writing to read what you write and not actually understanding or believing it.

It's because you sin by not matching Puppets' reads...whatever they are.

[T-Bone]

It's because you sin by not matching Puppets' reads...whatever they are.

I figured it was because I had them low in my reads but that's not a mutually exclusive stance.

I have bad reads too, join the club

[T-Bone]

It's because you sin by not matching Puppets' reads...whatever they are.

I figured it was because I had them low in my reads but that's not a mutually exclusive stance.

I have bad reads too, join the club

Is this sarcasm because you disagree with DP or do you think your reads are bad and are reevaluating?

Sarcasm. I'm fine with my reads this far.

[T-Bone]

I realize I've been taunting a bit much. I like Math for town because I strongly town read his predecessor. I didn't understand the scumread on Corwin then, even if I understand the impulse to scumread Math now.

[T-Bone]

If only your reads were better

Gottem

[T-Bone]

Okay who is scum Mala?

[T-Bone]

If you’re going to act deliberately obtuse, then I’m likely wasting my time with this. I said you had NM tier reads for a reason and it obviously wasn’t about your greens.

bs - I stated why i put them where I did.

You haven't told me why I should put them where you want them.

Read my ISO and theirs. Beyond that I really can’t help you.

How about no. You called my reads out, not the other way around.

Because the ones I objected to are wrong.

Burden of proof is on you here. You said his reads were bad, but when giving the opportunity several times to explain when he asked, refused.

It's starting to look like scum posturing to me. You're reads aren't that in depth and from what I've read mostly rely on games that aren't this one, so it should be trivial for you to recall them.

[T-Bone]

T-bone is back in my greens.

Disappointing

[T-Bone]

It's the VC where Penguin's scumclaim will be enshrined forever in shame

[T-Bone]

T-bone is back in my greens.

Disappointing

stop agreeing with me then.

You have Ceph in the wrong place, Bell probably too high for what he's done in this game, and there is still no best bird on this player list, Ducky ain't playing.

[T-Bone]

I don't even have you in the scum tier where I want to lim you today, chill.

[T-Bone]

Nice one

[T-Bone]

Play the lottery with them

[T-Bone]

It might just be possible that you're being scum read for the way you're playing currently, and not because someone is trying to death tunnel you.

[T-Bone]

T-bone is back in my greens.

Disappointing

stop agreeing with me then.

You have Ceph in the wrong place, Bell probably too high for what he's done in this game, and there is still no best bird on this player list, Ducky ain't playing.

Happy to hear about Ceph and Bell if you want to expound upon.

Bell is fine-ish. I don't think he's done anything to generate town reads but that's hair splitting on my part.

For Ceph I think he is trying to solve the game, and I don't agree with the way people are scumreading him. I don't know why you are, but I don't find his frustration and defiance against being scumread as alignment indicative. I have a more specific interaction in mind where I decided Ceph was town based on, but I need to go back in my own posts to see where I clocked that interaction.

[T-Bone]

T-bone is back in my greens.

Disappointing

stop agreeing with me then.

You have Ceph in the wrong place, Bell probably too high for what he's done in this game, and there is still no best bird on this player list, Ducky ain't playing.

Happy to hear about Ceph and Bell if you want to expound upon.

Bell is fine-ish. I don't think he's done anything to generate town reads but that's hair splitting on my part.

For Ceph I think he is trying to solve the game, and I don't agree with the way people are scumreading him. I don't know why you are, but I don't find his frustration and defiance against being scumread as alignment indicative. I have a more specific interaction in mind where I decided Ceph was town based on, but I need to go back in my own posts to see where I clocked that interaction.

Would you accept when Ceph said vca is trash??

[T-Bone]

Would you accept when Ceph said vca is trash??

Do you think I would?

That's why I'm asking. It was around that time I felt it, and when he said that was when I articulated my read. I think Ceph has been fine, I agree with him quite a bit this game, and I haven't liked some of the pushes on him.

Coincidentally it's also why I haven't gotten on board with BBT either. Too many people shading him as a scumread without strong reasoning imo.

While it's obviously impossible for every player scumreading Ceph to be scum, it doesn't look all that great to me. I don't see it.

[T-Bone]

Flavor

The Black Rock, an old ship found inland on the island, contains dynamite. Rousseau used some for her traps. Dynamite was also used to blow up the door to the hatch. Dynamite is dangerous, and on the trip to retrieve some to blow up the hatch, a high school teacher named Arzt mishandled some and lost his life.

Vote Count 1.13

5 Frogsterking (JohnnyFarrar, Roden, Cephrir, Lukewarm, Galron)

4 Cephrir (BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee99, PookyTheMagicalBear, Bell)

2 Galron (Bellaphant, The toad)
2 BlueBloodedToffee (Dunnstral, Cat Scratch Fever)
2 T-Bone (PenguinPower, Enchant)

1 The toad (Rad)
1 Bellaphant (Frogsterking)
1 Dancing Puppets (Malakittens)
1 Rad (Off the Hook)
1 Off the Hook (T-Bone)

Not Voting (Dancing Puppets, Toogeloo, MalcolmTucker, Corwinoid, Cytosine and Guanine, Klick)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

Replacing Toogeloo

I kinda feel like these past few are an important VC.

Like if Cephrir is town as I think he is

Then we either have a counterwagon on scum!frog or so far scum haven’t really seen a threat yet

Math, VCA is good for a willing to flip and a starter vote but that's all at the moment.

Talk to me about Rad, bbt and Dwlee please

I haven’t interacted with them (or don’t remember their posts) so I have no opinion.

I am starting VCa to get an idea where to read since no one answered my question about where to read. A spreadsheet of who reads who as what is helpful as I go along but VCA is something I can do to get reads without waiting 3 days to parse all of it.

People are waiting for.Pooky to.post and or repost the updated version of this. But you already saw the summary one that was quoted at you earlier

[T-Bone]

Would you accept when Ceph said vca is trash??

Do you think I would?

That's why I'm asking. It was around that time I felt it, and when he said that was when I articulated my read. I think Ceph has been fine, I agree with him quite a bit this game, and I haven't liked some of the pushes on him.

Coincidentally it's also why I haven't gotten on board with BBT either. Too many people shading him as a scumread without strong reasoning imo.

While it's obviously impossible for every player scumreading Ceph to be scum, it doesn't look all that great to me. I don't see it.

Ah - sorry - I read that as "would you accept that VCA is trash" which I will not. Fair enough response.

I just scrolled through my ISO and that happened to be the post I first voiced the town read on.

[T-Bone]

Narrowing down my willing to vote list. Yes there are still 12 names here, no it doesn't mean I'm actively looking to lim you yet. I have just removed the other half of the player list from my consideration one way or another, and haven't had those aha moments for any of these players yet. I'm on the verge of removing a few more names.

Spoiler: WtV List

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Frogsterking
The toad
Enchant
Bellaphant
Klick
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

[T-Bone]

Okay, permanent spot on my scum reads list.

[T-Bone]

Coward.

I will not have this gimmick infringement

[T-Bone]

Okay, permanent spot on my scum reads list.

Hello friend. Let me catch up and post my reads list.

{Best Bird}

{PookyTheMagicalBear}

{JohnnyFarrar, Lukewarm, Bell, T-Bone}

{Malakittens, Galron, Roden, Rad, Mathblade, Dwlee99, Bellaphant, Klick, Cytosine and Guanine, Enchant}

{Taly, MalcolmTucker, Frogsterking, The toad, Cat Scratch Fever, Dunnstral}

{Off the Hook, Cephrir, Dancing Puppets}

{BlueBloodedToffee}

{}

quick catchup, but this is about where I'm at...Dancing Puppet may or may not have switched with BBT.

I'm still too high coward

[T-Bone]

but you have to call me best bird now

Sleep with one eye open tonight, bird

[T-Bone]

Gottem Gritty

[T-Bone]

I tried to get an image of Gritty but it was too hard to figure out on mobile

[T-Bone]

that would be some degenerate shit tho spending more time on pagetop scoring than actually solving the game but I am bad with priorities

It would, I don't even know what you've done besides pagetop scoring and pretty squares making. It's been so long since we've seen the second I forgot that I forgot I removed you from my lim list for it.

[T-Bone]

but you have to call me best bird now

No, bad bird. you’re either clearly not reading my posts or Titus might not be wrong. No way you still sr us here.

~N

Your hydra partner failed to even provide some simple reasons for reads not too long ago so honestly there's not much reason to town read you. If you were asking Penguin for reasons for his reads and he refused you'd scumread him.

[T-Bone]

tho I guess I could do it if I was a true tryhard

Pooky is it possible for bird to have this godawful a read on me and still be town here?

it is in fact possible for town players to think you are not town

that would be some degenerate shit tho spending more time on pagetop scoring than actually solving the game but I am bad with priorities

It would, I don't even know what you've done besides pagetop scoring and pretty squares making. It's been so long since we've seen the second I forgot that I forgot I removed you from my lim list for it.

I know right

it's my super sekrit strategy so when I win after murdering you all I will have a really cool timelapse spreadsheet of how I did it.

To be honest I'm here for it.

[T-Bone]

Man, mobile is.measing with me. I am sure I never quoted that first post.

[T-Bone]

Thank you for doing what your hydra partner couldn't!

[T-Bone]

I think you're interpreting 1763 wrong Luke. He was making the comparison that not all low activity slots were being treated equally and was annoyed since it was his slot getting that unequal attention.

[T-Bone]

Thank you for doing what your hydra partner couldn't!

She’s been dealing with a lot of rl issues.

That's fine. I was just very frustrated that your slot was just saying "ISO me" instead of explaining the reads. Like, I get that meta reasoning is already flimsy and I won't hold it against you, I have flimsy reasons for reads at this stage of the game too. But if you're town cooperation is always preferred. There are 2800 posts in this game it's not anyone's job to memorize anyone's posts.

[T-Bone]

okay, i feel better about dancing puppets now

---

Narrowing down my willing to vote list. Yes there are still 12 names here, no it doesn't mean I'm actively looking to lim you yet. I have just removed the other half of the player list from my consideration one way or another, and haven't had those aha moments for any of these players yet. I'm on the verge of removing a few more names.

Spoiler: WtV List

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Frogsterking
The toad
Enchant
Bellaphant
Klick
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

This list looks very different from mine. With the exception of The toad, who I'm still rather uncertain about, everyone else here I think is town.

Everyone I'm willing to vote (basically null and scumreads):

Spoiler:

MathBlade
T-Bone
Roden
Taly
Dwlee
C&G
Toad
BBT
Cephrir
Johnny

I mean you're on my list because I basically agree with none of your reads today. You're right that we have opposite lists!

[T-Bone]

I appreciate you comparing notes though that's helpful.

[T-Bone]

That is the post restriction DNA has claimed to have.

[T-Bone]

I plan to use my platform as Confirmed Town to start a new wagon tonight. Buy like, 5 hours from now.

Stay tuned

The time has arrived for me to take my place as town leader, and lead this town to a scum elimination.

If everyone can kindly vote Mathblade in their next post. Much appreciated.

Spoiler:

I'm only approximately 24 hours late lol

So disappointed. I set an alarm for this yesterday. And this is what you give me? LATE?? I wanted something spicy.

[T-Bone]

I'm always down for yeeting Corwin

dude was scummy af when he was here

Do you think it makes sense that scum!Math wouldn’t know NM wasn’t actually a player in this game?

I am not sure why it would make more sense for town!math to have missed this then for scum!math to have missed it, and so I am treating it as entirely NAI

My guy was clearly asking how NM was doing, not about his position in this game?

[T-Bone]

I wanted something new and exciting. You may as well have trotted out BBT, Frogster, or Ceph again!

[T-Bone]

Huh. I read it the same way that Nancy read it the first time, but looking back at it now I can see it meaning

"Started providing content [in his games]" not "started providing content [in this game]"

Yeah NM isn't in this game didn't occur to me you could take it any other way.

[T-Bone]

I wanted something new and exciting. You may as well have trotted out BBT, Frogster, or Ceph again!

everyone needs their moment in the sun let's not deny mathblade the pleasure

We already did this with Corwin! It's the same burger you've just put thousand island on it and called it "secret sauce".

[T-Bone]

Maybe Puppets' can out their secret sauce vca scumread instead. If I guess who it is will you come clean?

[T-Bone]

I wanted something new and exciting. You may as well have trotted out BBT, Frogster, or Ceph again!

I will have you know that when I looked at Corwin in Pooky's spreadsheet, there were only 4 out of 26 people with him down as red >.<

He hasn't posted it in DAYS

[T-Bone]

I thought I was talking to Titus tbh so ce la vie

[T-Bone]

meta vca math

meta is trash

[T-Bone]

meta vca math

meta is trash

Wow and MATHblade replaced Corwin, how soulful

[T-Bone]

It's NAI

[T-Bone]

Got it, so whoever reads you as town is most likely not scum. Cause town reads are so reliable. Makes sense.

That's generally how I do it. Town reads and agreeing with me.

Protip if you ever want to pocket T-Bone in a future game.

[T-Bone]

Updates:

DP => Scum
Mala => Scum

Cool. Why?

[T-Bone]

Got it, so whoever reads you as town is most likely not scum. Cause town reads are so reliable. Makes sense.

That's generally how I do it. Town reads and agreeing with me.

Protip if you ever want to pocket T-Bone in a future game.

I town read you, kinda hard, so hard that I kinda wonder why.

Uhhh didn't you try to start a wagon on me???

[T-Bone]

Look at these weaklings.

VOTE: t-bone

What's better than a pocketed t-bone? A dead one. Wagon I summon thee.

Luke join me, I'm recruiting for my tbone wagon. I'm sure only good will come of it

Pedit dunn join me, I'm recruiting for my tbone wagon. I'm sure only good will come of it

Pedit corwin join me, I'm recruiting for my tbone wagon. I'm sure only good will come of it

Press (X) to doubt

[T-Bone]

Don't worry I won't hold it against you.

[T-Bone]

I think he was using a figure of speech to illustrate you say you're obviously town in every game regardless of alignment.

[T-Bone]

Look at these weaklings.

VOTE: t-bone

What's better than a pocketed t-bone? A dead one. Wagon I summon thee.

Luke join me, I'm recruiting for my tbone wagon. I'm sure only good will come of it

Pedit dunn join me, I'm recruiting for my tbone wagon. I'm sure only good will come of it

Pedit corwin join me, I'm recruiting for my tbone wagon. I'm sure only good will come of it

Press (X) to doubt

Lol wait what are you getting at here? This was a joke wagon I tried to get going based on 1389.

I had you as town even back then and was having fun with that.

I know, I was also joking.