LOST (Game Over)

[Klick]

VOTE: Bellaphant

It feels necessary to eliminate you or Bell today so that people don't get confused between the two of you. You're not here to defend yourself, so you're naturally the easier choice.

[Klick]

I never watched Lost so all flavor is completely, ahem, lost on me. Happy to be town though!

Obviously scum. Not town binning you for this. Not the easiest sort ever. Nope. Not gunna do it.

Good eye. I like that in fellow town members.

This is actually just a TvT interaction isn't it

[Klick]

Lost is the one about the guy and his volleyball isn't it?

[Klick]

I should vote you for that! P-edit klick

I thought you'd like that

Rad continues to be hard town

[Klick]

i also am reading rad as town but feel less sure about the advocate for this read!

VOTE: Cephrir

[Klick]

Let's get a scum lim before 10 pages

[Klick]

UNVOTE:
To be fair I didn't know this was a common thing! I do think you're town though
Pooky's not a good vote though

[Klick]

I can argue that this is showing a higher awareness of the gamestate which can be viewed as cautious/scummy.

Wait, so having a strong understanding of what's happened so far in the game is SCUMMY to you? lol

Is this a common belief?

Having a good understanding of the game state this early on points to informed knowledge. yes - that's weird.

okay cool, I'll only skim and take in the bare minimum needed to process what's going on

~GE

VOTE: Off The Hook

[Klick]

TOWN
Ceph
PenguinPower
Rad
Pooky
Bell
Frogsterking
CSF

VOTE: The Toad

[Klick]

I'm null on myself

[Klick]

Hi Toog!

[Klick]

@klick, can you talk to me about the top and bottom two on that list? I don't feel like I've gotten enough from ceph or pp to read them, my read keeps flipping in frogsterking every post they make, and similar Ish with CSF. The rest are town thoiugh, hard agree.

Ceph's reaction to pressure was towny - in particular, I liked where he was like 'don't take my Town PM away', his feelings around that feel genuine and I don't think it's the route he'd take as scum.

Penguin's annoyance with OTH looks like genuinely annoyed town.

Frogster's probably my strongest townread? He's solving. He's got nuanced takes and a point of view that's shifting as he gets new info. I think his intention is to find out who the scum are and I don't feel like he's got much else on the mind.

CSF is kind of a gut read, I like how she's engaging with the thread. Might have better words for it later.

Why do you townread Pooky?

[Klick]

VOTE: Malcolm

[Klick]

I can argue that this is showing a higher awareness of the gamestate which can be viewed as cautious/scummy.

Wait, so having a strong understanding of what's happened so far in the game is SCUMMY to you? lol

Is this a common belief?

Having a good understanding of the game state this early on points to informed knowledge. yes - that's weird.

okay cool, I'll only skim and take in the bare minimum needed to process what's going on

~GE

Yes, that

[Klick]

But not that quote!

[Klick]

Malcolm, what's up?
How are you? Are you still getting eliminated every day 1?
How has all of the being eliminated effecting your playstyle this game or how do you predict it will if at all?

I've actually never been eliminated D1! As a general rule when I'm town I manage to get through the first day, but after that I'm sometimes eliminated. Either way I tend not to let it impact my playstyle all that much - I wouldn't even say I have that much of a specific playstyle for the most part, I simply analyse and try to find connections between different players but tend to be pretty uncertain in how I approach the game.

I kinda like this post as coming from a town mindset for Malcolm.

Because several of us here know he was eliminated day 1 as scum in the Web of Lies games (and is what Bell is refering to here I believe).

But he didn't even think of that game. His thoughts went to "I never get

mis

eliminated day 1." And [I'm town this game, so I am immediately comparing this game to my other town games] feels like a genuine thought process. While I would kinda expect scum!Malcolm to be more aware of the scum game where he crashed and burned

This is really good.
UNVOTE:

[Klick]

Bella feels town, maybe Frogster too

Still struggling for strong scumreads

I could have made this posy
I'm really rather happy with the trio of {Frog, Bella, CSF} in general

[Klick]

I'm told Luke's scum game is scary but equally he's had some good takes. I think he's probably a net positive on the game state.

[Klick]

Got any townreads other than Rad, T-Bone?

[Klick]

Going to be V/LA for two days.

I've skimmed the last like 20 pages, I've got reads, just need to get them in appropriate reads list format

[Klick]

Notably also gone off Ceph town

VOTE: Cephrir

PEdit: yes Pooky, on a train now making a list just for you <3

[Klick]

You've got my undivided attention for like 40 minutes!

[Klick]

List is roughly ordered

TOWN
Klick
Frogsterking
Cat Scratch Fever
Rad
JohnnyFarrar
Bellaphant
Lukewarm
Pooky

[gap]
Off the Hook
PenguinPower
MalcolmTucker
Cytosine and Guanine

NULL
Taly
Malakittens
Dancing Puppets
Galron
Roden
Corwinoid
Enchant
Dwlee99
Dunnstral
The toad
T-Bone

SCUM
Bell
BlueBloodedToffee
Cephrir

[Klick]

Klick why did you flip your read on me

I was thinking about how you would approach this as scum. At first I was thinking you wouldnt come for me early because youd see me as pocketable for you

But actually the timing along with the knowledge that bella is likely to sheep your vote per her implying as much makes it seem conveniently timed

Well to be completely honest all three of the players in my scumreads section are very weak reads and I'm a bit lost for direction. I've reconsidered and think that what you've posted so far could really reasonably come from you as scum. I think you're reacting fairly poorly under pressure and I could see it being the route you choose as scum here.

But like I don't feel strongly about it. Nothing feels right as scum atm. In contrast, everyone in the top rung of my townreads is a rather strong townread, as in I'd be surprised if they were scum

[Klick]

Tell me about why you put Bell here.

I think Bell is hyper-aware of how he's perceived by others in a way that I see as likely coming from scum

[Klick]

Rad is town for like 20 different reasons. He's got takes that look genuine that make little sense from a scum point of view (like thinking scum have little influence in a gamestate like this - I think that's a hard towntell because I doubt a member of a 5-person scumteam feels that way at all about scum influence). He's really focused on solving. I don't feel like Rad is trying to manipulate me.

[Klick]

I just want it noted for the record that I am not scum partners with Klick.

Who your partners then

Don't have any.

@Klick, while I don't really think you're town. Because I don't really think someone with your level of experience uses "They seem self-aware" as an argument.
It's verifiable that I am very self-aware as town. It's a personal idiosyncrasy.

There's a reason I've said my scumreads are weak at the moment.

Equally though, I think arguments along that line of thought are totally valid and 'with your level of experience' is tangential to that

[Klick]

Rad is town for like 20 different reasons. He's got takes that look genuine that make little sense from a scum point of view (like thinking scum have little influence in a gamestate like this - I think that's a hard towntell because I doubt a member of a 5-person scumteam feels that way at all about scum influence). He's really focused on solving. I don't feel like Rad is trying to manipulate me.

have u ever had a moment of doubt? idk it feels like ur read on rad is just like
if u graph it
theres no bumpys or anything, it feels like a pretty straight line.

like yeah rad seems pretty townie rn, but idk about u
i wanna know what ur thinking more !!

...no? I just think he's town, straight-up.
I often find people saying that someone is like '70% town' or something, and that feels a bit like nonsense to me often. If something makes someone town, then that player is town, there's not some percentage-based conclusion you could make there. The question is all about how reliable the tell(s) you're using are on the player (and to that end I guess you can go with percentages or whatever, but I feel like that's not how people make those statements most of the time). I feel confident that the way Rad is playing is indicative of him being town - I'd be really surprised if that was wrong.

[Klick]

I'm told Luke's scum game is scary but equally he's had some good takes. I think he's probably a net positive on the game state.

This is the only klick post that hit me any which way. Who did you here this from?

Also klick has good votes

Bellaphant (AKA my wife) told me about the newbie she recently finished with Lukewarm. I also think I remember seeing he had a scummie nomination?

I agree with you btw that the resistance to Pooky townreads is worth noting btw. Skimmed so I can't remember who was doing this, but if I were scum and Pooky was town I'd be concerned about him getting an early pass.

[Klick]

Okay, I had been debating writing up a "I think that pooky would totally be down for doing this whole spread sheet thing as scum, because as scum he is not really reading the thread too closely, but this gives him a nice excuse to be active and posting, and look town, while really just having to keep an eye out for massive reads lists -- Plus, it is clear that pooky just had the idea that a massive table would be cool and I think he could both have that idea and decide to follow through with it as either alignment --- and like all in all, it is

probably[/i still more likely to come from town pooky, but I don't think people should just write him off as town just for it" But decided it wasn't worth it since, it felt like a lot to put out there to just land on "still leaning town, but don't forever bin"

But, I actually find that catch about his reads changing quietly on the spreadsheet as ++town for him.

Also, Rad moves from "town enough for day 1" to Town for finding that.

Nightmare scenario:

Pooky+Rad scum team, and this is the most 5hbig brained plan, and I would happily lose to the scum team that came up with it, so gonna ignore that possibility

Ngl this idea did pop up in my head when I saw Rad's post. XD I don't think that's what's happening though and they're both super town

[Klick]

I had a small scumread on Corwin develop earlier but wanted to give him time to settle in the game. But people are talking about it now so I guess I'll pitch in and say I concur

But Toad isn't towny either so I'd go there too

[Klick]

UNVOTE: Johnny

VOTE: Bellaphant

[Bellaphant, ?, ?, ?, ?]

Nah not feeling that at all.

[Klick]

corwin seems really town to me

Interested in hearing more about this

I'd talk more but got to go now, bye all <3 <3

[Klick]

Mmm not feeling the Toad vote really.

VOTE: Corwin let's try this

[Klick]

(I tried to call you!)

Do you always move your vote around this much?

Not always, only when I'm not really sure what I want.

I'd like to know how you're reading BBT's current page content btw.

[Klick]

(I tried to call you!)

Do you always move your vote around this much?

Not always, only when I'm not really sure what I want.

I'd like to know how you're reading BBT's current page content btw.

yeah, that wasn't toned, it just feels very noticeable from you and I don't really remember you doing it a bunch on other games.

With bbt I'm just a bit ....bemused? Their reaction to me was massively out of proportion (horrible post, what the fuck), but their climb down was super quick too? I don't know whether it's more town or scum - would scum have contit to argue, or just realised that I was presenting the truth? I am worried they haven't responded to the few things I said about how it reminded me of their scum game with me.

It's a criticism I've received before as town. I can't remember what games, but it was somewhat recent.

I'm going to do it again now

VOTE: BBT

I think his interaction with you is pretty bad. I read it as him trying to manage his own perception rather than genuinely questioning your read on him.

[Klick]

2224 is top notch from Roden, moving them up to town

I'd like to hear more about this; I explicitly don't townread this post and feel like Roden has enough content that I'm surprised I don't feel like he's town.

[Klick]

I didn't get much from maths' posting, which is strange because last game with them I was adamant about them being town to a very unbella-like point of intransigence.

This is probably because Corwin/MathBlade is just a scum slot and should die today

VOTE: MathBlade

[Klick]

I'd be rather happy with a Roden vote
I have no opinion on Dwlee at all

[Klick]

I don't really think Corwin's body of work looks like scumhunting, it looks more like projecting reads into the thread to look like he's scumhunting

[Klick]

And roden has been dead null to me all game. Felt inoffensive all day in a way that does not align with my prior experience with him as town. Nothing that made me go (!!SCUM!!), but also just not making me think town at any point

I find that people in this section of my reads really often are just scum who no one can be bothered to vote because they're never the *best* vote

[Klick]

Why can't we just play this like a normal game

and elim town D1

[Klick]

I didn't get much from maths' posting, which is strange because last game with them I was adamant about them being town to a very unbella-like point of intransigence.

This is probably because Corwin/MathBlade is just a scum slot and should die today

VOTE: MathBlade

I don't really think Corwin's body of work looks like scumhunting, it looks more like projecting reads into the thread to look like he's scumhunting

There's a hood you need to actually talk in. You're aware of Math's presence, yet you give no comment on HIS posting. You completely looked over my notes covering my initial attempts at readying. You can RVS in there. Bring more than muckracing or eliminating you will be a hill I would die on....and I love neighborhoods.

~Titus

You posted a load of info in unfiltered note format at once and it overloaded me so I skipped that post
I'm going to engage with this game as a hobby, not as a job. I'm going to do things that I believe are useful and avoid doing things that I don't think are very useful.

I'm amused that you've up to this point engaged with our neighbourhood at about the same level as me, and then post a wall of notes and give less than 24 hours before deciding to get bothered about not having a response to it.

[Klick]

Was this also claimed? I'm losing track of neighborhoods

Not by me. I sat on it. Klick has been my sekkrit scumread.

~Titus

Unironically are you pocketing me?

For what it's worth, this Klick scumread was in her notes post in the neighbourhood!

[Klick]

I don't really think Corwin's body of work looks like scumhunting, it looks more like projecting reads into the thread to look like he's scumhunting

Hey something approaching a reason.

Can you elaborate?

Dude was posting for two people.

Some of it is Ircher/RH9 and some is him.

So yes by fucking definition Corwin was. Congrats!

Thanks for the condescension, it was definitely called for considering this wasn't information that Corwin had revealed!

I'd still expect him to have something resembling a believable progression of thought. There aren't really points in his posting where I feel like he's thinking about his reads, he's just posting them for public view which feels like scum wanting to be seen rather than town wanting to solve

[Klick]

Klick's scumgame is terrible and I would be shocked if he was somehow scum here

Rude. I'd love to prove you wrong at some point

[Klick]

About to go into work but Dancing Puppets is probably town

[Klick]

As I read through tonight, and saw it happening, it felt like there were two people actively trying to keep the Math wagon alive after I abandoned ship. Pooky and Klick.

When I look back at how the two of them treated the slot, Pooky has had Corwin as a scum read for a while. He was scum on his reads list post, and scum in both spread sheets.

Comparatively, Klick did not mention a scum reading Corwin a single time until after I started my attempt to lead the thread. "Corwin" appears in Klick's iso in exactly 5 posts. Here is the progression, interspaced with when I first started trying to get people to move to corwin, and when I unvoted.

Spoiler:

NULL
{Snip}
Corwinoid

After doing some reading, I am narrowed down where I want to move my vote to either Corwinoid and The Toad, but struggling to decided between the two.

Maybe they should just be dueling wagons?

I had a small scumread on Corwin develop earlier but wanted to give him time to settle in the game. But people are talking about it now so I guess I'll pitch in and say I concur

But Toad isn't towny either so I'd go there too

Mmm not feeling the Toad vote really.

VOTE: Corwin let's try this

I am starting to think that I failed as town leader

UNVOTE:

I didn't get much from maths' posting, which is strange because last game with them I was adamant about them being town to a very unbella-like point of intransigence.

This is probably because Corwin/MathBlade is just a scum slot and should die today

VOTE: MathBlade

I don't really think Corwin's body of work looks like scumhunting, it looks more like projecting reads into the thread to look like he's scumhunting

No comment on Corwin.

I say we should wagon there.

An unoffensive join. "small scum read"

I say we should not kill Math

Now, the language is that the slot is "just scum and should die"

-----

Klick's engagement with this wagon reeks imo

So I can see how you've come to the conclusions you've come to
I think this argument falls when you consider that I have no illusions about my influence on the game state. The content I've provided hasn't been sufficient to be actually 'trying to keep the Math wagon alive' and the sway I have isn't going to be convincing a decent number of people to vote with me without reasons.

The things that actually convince me of someone's alignment one way or the other tend to be based on singular or very few reasons that I feel are very solid myself. But I have zero confidence in my ability to competitively form an argument based on the reasons I read people, because my read reasoning tends to not be persuasive. So I've recently opted for just giving my thoughts without intent to persuade, or otherwise pushing in directions that I feel will help the game early on.

I personally think it's very notable that Bella's having trouble reading MathBlade, because Bella has clocked onto Math!town very quickly and accurately in the past, and that sort of nullish read on someone often turns up scum in my experience. And I've already given my thoughts on why Corwin's slot was scummy. I can't give much more than that without delving into things that really don't influence my own thoughts either way.

[Klick]

I see a Roden wagon
VOTE: Roden

[Klick]

I think Corwin got a bad rap because he started the game away from it and had to come in on the back foot with people scum reading him when he literally wasn't in the game yet.

This is a poor generalisation of the scumreads on Corwin
I'd rather the history on that not get edited thx

[Klick]

I don't really think Corwin's body of work looks like scumhunting, it looks more like projecting reads into the thread to look like he's scumhunting

Hi Klick! Can you point to some post(s) that make you feel this way? I have a harder time understanding other people's reads when they're in the abstract

So I suspect I'll get ire from a number of people for this, but I'll preface this post by saying that another read-through of Corwin's ISO in a different state of mind has me townreading him.

What I originally saw was more about what I couldn't see in Corwin's posts rather than what I could see, and as such it'd be difficult to demonstrate what I was seeing with quotes. I think Corwin has a type of posting style that I'm naturally likely to read as scummy, because his posts feel crafted to me. But I can see looking at his ISO now how the posts he decides to post come from town who feels like he's saying whatever is on his mind at the time.

This is a shit answer to the actual question you've asked here! But it's what I'm thinking.

[Klick]

also professordrapion is so town on 153 + 154 it hurts

Agreed

[Klick]

I think that a second mason should step forward or Roden should die. I am willing to discuss this before leaping to action.

I agree with this

[Klick]

Okay, am I in completely different world than the rest of you or are some people being completely anti-town in their approach here?

Bell is town

[Klick]

Okay lads, we can stop trotting out Ceph, Dunn, Johnny, and Math votes, they are all town sorry to say. Please be original.

Accurate!

[Klick]

Okay lads, we can stop trotting out Ceph, Dunn, Johnny, and Math votes, they are all town sorry to say. Please be original.

Accurate!

When did you change your mind back on ceph?

Dunn is probably town, Dunn maybe , Johnny prob scum ceph scum.

I think Ceph's last several posts have all been transparent solving and I really liked him advocating for Drapion!town when no one else wants to comment on how obvtown he is

[Klick]

I scum read galron and I don't town read drap, sorry.

I hard tr both. The absurd extremely arrogant kind of confidence he’s exhibiting is townie. He really believes in his takes. I won’t be touching that wagon with a 50 ft pole.

Basically, yes, this

[Klick]

klick, why were you OK with pulling for a Mason claim?

I think once Roden claimed Mason, it was much more useful for the other Mason to just out than for people to waste time discussing the possibility of the other Mason being scum.

Especially with the other Mason being Dwlee, I think it was a good idea to claim so that we don't constantly have Dwlee in the elimination pool. They're higher priority NKs now as well, which is good for two explicitly-not-townread slots.

[Klick]

Oh god okay I've done it I've read all the stuff now.

Here's where I'm currently at.

TOWN
Klick
Roden
Dwlee99
Bellaphant
Dancing Puppets
Professor Drapion
Rad
JohnnyFarrar
Cat Scratch Fever
Frogsterking
RCEnigma
Bell

(gap)
Mathblade
Cephrir
Dunnstral
Lukewarm
PookyTheMagicalBear

SCUM, I SUPPOSE, SINCE THERE ARE 9 LEFT ON THE LIST
Enchant
Malakittens
BlueBloodedToffee
Taly
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook
Cytosine and Guanine
T-Bone
Best Bird

PEdit: Dunn would probably die before Dwlee due to content levels alone?

[Klick]

VOTE: Malakittens

[Klick]

I would definitely cross OtH, C & G and Taly off of that list.

I thought OtH was town earlier but I've lost genuine confidence and want to see more from Gamma. I don't think they're a great elimination today.
C&G's a weird one, don't know how to read them.

I don't see Taly town, want to explain that one (or point me to posts where you have already )?

[Klick]

Theres been 50 pages since I last checked and I read none of it. Anything important?

[Klick]

So Ceph gladiated Taly while Frogster was the hot wagon? And someone's a vig?
PEdit ty
VOTE: Taly

[Klick]

OH SWEET I'M ON THE BOARD
Thanks for the setup

[Klick]

Thx for replacing me and being good Mislim Bait

[Klick]

TOWN
Klick
Roden
Dwlee99

Bellaphant

Dancing Puppets
Professor Drapion
Rad
JohnnyFarrar
Cat Scratch Fever
Frogsterking
RCEnigma
Bell

(gap)

Mathblade

Cephrir
Dunnstral
Lukewarm
PookyTheMagicalBear

SCUM, I SUPPOSE, SINCE THERE ARE 9 LEFT ON THE LIST
Enchant
Malakittens
BlueBloodedToffee

Taly
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook

Cytosine and Guanine
T-Bone
Best Bird

Pretty satisfied with my early solving!