LOST (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

I just played 2 back to back games with you when you were scum. The vibes are right this time.

You seem hella relaxed. I also liked you calling me scum, because in both of those games I spotted you as scum pre page 10, so I feel like you would want to keep me in your good graces if you were scum again.

This read was wrong the last time you posted it

[Dunnstral]

So the monster in black.
And then there’s the others.

Who would the rest of the bad guys be? Like traitors? Dead weight?
I never watched lost.

Mafia is not determined by flavor.
Nvm. Skimmed rules.
Also I joined a bastard game.
And roles don’t flip with alignment. Which is fine because honestly I just get canfused with roles anyway

This could be scum trying to pull a fast one on us by pretending not to know

[Dunnstral]

hi my role has a drawback and i haven't decided yet whether to claim harder than that or not

VOTE: enchant i don't think a rock will help us survive this situation

What if we didn't do this every time

I guess I should out my drawback as Hated if we're doing this again

What made you want to keep the hated part a secret initially?

[Dunnstral]

You basically say "this is not how marci acts as scum" and "I like that she isn't pushing me" in the post I linked

Which is close to what you are saying in this game, too.

[Dunnstral]

No. You are comparing a read based on her general early prescence to a read based on how she responded under pressure. Those are distinctly different thing metrics.

Key words for the post you just linked:

My experience with scum marci has been -

that under pressure she ...

The way that she responded under pressure that game turned my read around on her for a while. But, I correctly scum read her based off of her early presence that game.

Like, my last two games with Marci, she was scum, and I was really sure she was scum by page 5

Mafia Invictus Redux

I think marci is just scum here.

Moderators of the Discord Server

wdym you thought i already knew

I think that that was a faked dumb tell, and that you are scum.

Yes, in the Invictus game I talked myself out of it, and then back into it a couple times throughout the game.

But based on early vibes, I feel like I have done pretty decent at spotting her recently - and my read on her right now is an early vibes read.

And hell, I very well might talk myself out of before the end of the game, but at this moment, I am town reading her early posting

OK, I accept your reasoning. I think that your second post here going into more detail about is a facet of your town play and something you are more likely to skip out on as mafia.

[Dunnstral]

So the monster in black.
And then there’s the others.

Who would the rest of the bad guys be? Like traitors? Dead weight?
I never watched lost.

Mafia is not determined by flavor.
Nvm. Skimmed rules.
Also I joined a bastard game.
And roles don’t flip with alignment. Which is fine because honestly I just get canfused with roles anyway

This could be scum trying to pull a fast one on us by pretending not to know

Lol

hi my role has a drawback and i haven't decided yet whether to claim harder than that or not

VOTE: enchant i don't think a rock will help us survive this situation

What if we didn't do this every time

I guess I should out my drawback as Hated if we're doing this again

What made you want to keep the hated part a secret initially?

rofl i thought he was joking

I don't joke around

[Dunnstral]

I don't think we should continue to push Cephrir without pointing to real reasons for doing so. Partially because it would be annoying for them, and partially because there are several people who voted for Cephrir who haven't given any reasoning for why they are doing so.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: csf for not providing a reason in their RVS vote

I have 1 serious town read and 1 serious scum read and I'm going to keep quiet on them for a little while.

You are being pretentious about this. Nobody else has placed great importance to your reads and there is no real reason for you to keep this information hidden.

I actually have no idea why we're wagoning Cephrir BUT

He is probably the ONLY player on the site who rolls scum more frequently then I do

so it's a fine place to start

VOTE: Cephrir

Eventually you'd expect that heavy lean to equalize, yeah? So... shouldn't we lean town on him if we're going to draw conclusions based on rate of scum?

That's gambler's fallacy

Saying that he rolls scum frequently so he is more likely to be scum this game as well is also gambler's fallacy. That is what is being said in post 168, but you only call out post 169.

[Dunnstral]

OK, I accept your reasoning. I think that your second post here going into more detail about is a facet of your town play and something you are more likely to skip out on as mafia.

Hmmm

I feel like my incessant need to make sure that people understand what I am trying to say when they appear to not understand is not alignment indicative for me, but sure.

Maybe not. This is my own understanding of how you would play as town.

[Dunnstral]

I make those types of posts almost every theme game I've been in and I've been town in most of them,

If you do the same thing in every game, it does mean you will end up doing it more as town, because town is a more common alignment than mafia. This does not mean that you doing it makes you less likely to be mafia, however.

I might even pretend ignorance of the set up less to appear more competent in the hopes of driving wagons more effectively. I assume you don't remember this because I don't see what angle scum you would have to bringing up inaccurate information when I'd slap it out of your mouth.

I do not have any knowledge of you doing this.

[Dunnstral]

Cool. I do this. Now you know.
Yes. It's entirely possible that I could be *lying*

Alright, I'll keep this in mind

[Dunnstral]

Ego, this started

I'll read this tomorrow from my Titus account. Nancy has threads backwards which I'm too tired to deal with.

This post rubs me the wrong way

[Dunnstral]

I don't care whether Titus reads the thread tonight or not but find it annoying that they're attributing not reading the thread to nancy having the thread in the other direction

If they had just said they were tired and left it at that I would not have had a problem with it

[Dunnstral]

-5%

[Dunnstral]

TOWN
Ceph
PenguinPower
Rad
Pooky
Bell
Frogsterking
CSF

VOTE: The Toad

I don't agree with these reads

[Dunnstral]

Don't sleep on Bell scum. That guy is capable of anything as scum and I suspect that he makes 'villain poses' when typing things out as mafia as a sort of psychological thing to hype himself up. I wouldn't be surprised if Bell ended up as the last mafia alive here after a series of calculated buses on his own team to gain favor with the town. You really can't let your guard down around him and it deeply concerning that a streak of town games from Bell has all but blinded many to the danger that is scum Bell. Like a shark attack that is feared but only very rarely happens, but once the scum Bell jaws close around you it's too late.

[Dunnstral]

I don't remember ever seeing Luke as scum. They look a lot like town to me.

I liked Enchant's posts. I agree that it is a waste of time to try to solve the 100 post player today. I think they are likely to be town, too.

Not sure what Bellaphant doesn't like about my posts. And while I'm talking about Bellaphant, she said she would give Roden a pass for today because their image made her laugh. I don't intend to give anyone a pass, except the 100 post player who I personally feel would be a bad elimination target today.

Toogeloo is the third player (at least) to not realize that flavor and alignment are divorced from each other, or to fake that.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Reasoning:

-Second player to "not realize" that flavor does not relate to alignment in post 29, something which I find mafia might try to fake to look like a townie.
-In post 68 they gently warn the town against flavor claiming. I personally feel it is not a very big deal (as opposed to the constant stream of impulsively claiming roles we seem to be dealing with already especially) and this is an easy angle for mafia to take to look reasonable.
-They voted for Cephrir with no reasoning. They have continued to vote Cephrir and continued to not provide any reasons. They have not even commented on it in a quick check-up.

[Dunnstral]

Anyways, anyone else have any questions for me before I go?

[Dunnstral]

I think it is too early to call your alignment decisively. I think you being town is a distinct possibility. I dislike making the call too early.

[Dunnstral]

What is this?

[Dunnstral]

Telling you to town bin me.

I do not have any reason to believe that you would not make those posts as mafia.

[Dunnstral]

Still catching up, like Frog, Dunn, RAD and am per usual mesmerized by Pooky and seriously considering ingesting the blue pill he gave me for my confirmation.


~N

Pg 7. Liking Luke, Bella, CSF the most.

is this the same person?

[Dunnstral]

The first post I made in this game is on page 10, which means if you have a read on me at page 7 you are going out of order or something else is going on

[Dunnstral]

Dunn do you have a read on Bellaphant?

I think they can be either alignment

[Dunnstral]

The first post I made in this game is on page 10, which means if you have a read on me at page 7 you are going out of order or something else is going on

I’m dyslexic. What Titus said and others confirmed is correct. I have everything set to descending, so probably couldn’t really answer that.

I don't think this answers what I said.

[Dunnstral]

Can you link to a post that you liked from me when you were initially catching up?

[Dunnstral]

The reason I asked for you to link to a post is because I still don't understand where in the thread you are reading to get a read on me from

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Reasoning:

-Second player to "not realize" that flavor does not relate to alignment in post 29, something which I find mafia might try to fake to look like a townie.
-In post 68 they gently warn the town against flavor claiming. I personally feel it is not a very big deal (as opposed to the constant stream of impulsively claiming roles we seem to be dealing with already especially) and this is an easy angle for mafia to take to look reasonable.
-They voted for Cephrir with no reasoning. They have continued to vote Cephrir and continued to not provide any reasons. They have not even commented on it in a quick check-up.

I think these are bad reasons to read BBT as scum here.

VOTE: Dunn

I'm going to look at his ISO now and see if I should remove my vote and put it back on The toad.

Nevermind about Dunn. Slight town read. I feel like he's making real effort in the game. I think his vote on BBT was probably sincere as his reasoning resonates with the rest of his ISO.

I think his 483 feels way out of character though. I responded to this post earlier and wouldn't have thought it came from the guy with this ISO. It's very light hearted and his ISO reads as anything but light hearted.

I did especially like 248 where he picks 2 fights that he could just stay out of as scum.

I bet Dunn rubs people the wrong way with his straight forward bluntness. Does anyone know if this is his standard approach?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: The toad

These posts feel pretty nuanced to me, and likely to come from town

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Corwin
100 D1 Words Total PR Excluding Quotes (Jin)
-Guanine

There are ways around this. Will STD be olbliging for example if I made a plist and asked you to hold who you suspected would that be considered your words or mine?

No. Follow spirit.

Enchant, Pooky evil.
~Cytosine

[Dunnstral]

Lukewarm
Bell
Rad
Enchant
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)

Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Cat Scratch Fever
Bellaphant
Taly
PookyTheMagicalBear

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone
Frogsterking
Klick

PenguinPower
The toad
Dwlee99
Malakittens
MalcolmTucker

Roden
Corwinoid

Cephrir
Galron
JohnnyFarrar
BlueBloodedToffee

--------------

Groups one and two are townreads and townleans. The third group is null. Group four is light suspicion. Groups five and six are stronger suspicions. I would probably vote for anyone in groups four, five, and six today.

[Dunnstral]

I would probably vote for anyone in groups four, five, and six today.

Actually I wouldn't prefer to go after anybody who has indicated that they are dealing with real life stuff today. That's Corwinoid, Dwlee, Malakittens. That doesn't change my opinion about them.

[Dunnstral]

yeah Enchant and Dancing Puppets in top-tier town is an interesting one

My list reflects my own thoughts and is pretty subjective, but I feel good about it.

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn When did we become top tier town? Why?

~Titus

Nancy posting leans town including my interactions with her, Titus pushing Frogster is something she would do as town. 919 feels nuanced from Nancy.

[Dunnstral]

When did Bell?

I think he's town but I recall you FoSing him somewhere.

~Titus

I think that the way they are treating me comes from town them. Calling out Toogeloo early in pt is towny. Their reads are believable. When they are scum they are more stilted.

[Dunnstral]

I feel confused about it

I am willing to answer questions.

[Dunnstral]

When did Bell?

I think he's town but I recall you FoSing him somewhere.

~Titus

I think that the way they are treating me comes from town them. Calling out Toogeloo early in pt is towny. Their reads are believable. When they are scum they are more stilted.

PT? Who is in it?

Spoiler:

My PT partner brought up the fact that they don't trust me, that I could be scum, and that I basically asked for a free pass through Day 1.

For those not in the know, I was involved in a head on collision last Friday night. My kids were in the car with me. I was ambulances to the ER, but thankfully my kids walked away with minor injuries.

I am doing some daily physical therapy and we are working with lawyers and insurance right now, and in my down time I am trying to relax and rest.

I don't anticipate this being problematic beyond this week, but if people feel I'm getting a pass, or need to replace out, I will.

---

I have not read anything other than my PT. I actually didn't consider the possibility that my partner might consider us unaligned. Based on my show knowledge, I actually would have thought us Masons if my PM didn't specifically call us neighbors.

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone. We are in a PT called Kissing Siblings, which I don't recall them being incestual at all, lol.

At any rate, I will get to this eventually.

hey lovelies it's the beakiest bitch of them all ;)

uh I only read this past page and I think Gal/Rad town/town is above rand

Theres like 5 scenarios I imagine mutual paranoia going between S/S and T/S and "how would you react to that" and "we do this all the time so is this valid?" do not strike as scum dialogue

Also Bell townlean for healthy caution in the PT

Though in this case, the reason I pushed Toog is because they posted in thread that they were in a PT and that this implied that they were townie when there was no such indication.
I was uncomfortable with them implying that in thread as a request for a pass.

They also harbored zero doubt on my alignment. Asking me to summarize the game for them over the weekend.
It was weird. But not scummy weird. Just weird.

[Dunnstral]

I feel confused about it

I am willing to answer questions.

I think I did you a little dirty, but just a little. Upon review I'd put you in group five rather than group six right now.

[Dunnstral]

Should I scumread CG for misusing their words? I feel like both of those players would use them carefully

They're not misusing their words in their last two posts. Give me a minute and I'll show how it was reasonable.

[Dunnstral]

I feel confused about it

I am willing to answer questions.

Why do you think Titus decision to vote me is AI for them?

Because I've seen Titus do similar things as town before. They like to vote to try to set up VCA for later.

Now, I have criticisms with this way of playing. I feel the follow-up after the elimination tends to be weak, and I don't like when they push like that. But this is definitely how they play as town.

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn When did we become top tier town? Why?

~Titus

Nancy posting leans town including my interactions with her,

Titus pushing Frogster is something she would do as town. 919 feels nuanced from Nancy.

All I remember about your interactions with Nancy was you being confused at how she arrived at a townread on you tbh

And I'm not sure that was resolved satisfactorily

I don't like it when people can't adequately explain something similar to what I was asking for, and I often go after people for it. Historically it has not been a great indicator for the other party being mafia, so while I still feel they haven't adequetly explained themselves, they don't really feel like scum to me.

[Dunnstral]

ok but she sounds way more stilted in pokemon dude lol

her scum game is like your scum game in terms of looking like a block of ice

Who is this abt?

~GE

Probably CSF?
-Guanine

This is the first post that actually bothered me wrt the post restriction. But this one did it.

There was no need for them to be the one to answer this question

We were doublechecking if we misinterpreted Pooky.
-Guanine

Post 1202 is asking a question, hence the question mark. I think looking at punctuation is important due to their harsh limit on words. If they had meant that to be a statement, they would have used a period.
It looks like they wanted Pooky to respond to that.

I believe it has been misinterpreted to be read as if it was a statement, and that Cytosine and Guanine were answering the question.

Post 1232 is wordy because the thread is shifting towards possibly voting for Cytosine, and they needed to use more words to "mount a defense" as it were. If they get wagoned, it may not be possible for them to adequately defend themselves with their post limit.

[Dunnstral]

When did Bell?

I think he's town but I recall you FoSing him somewhere.

~Titus

I think that the way they are treating me comes from town them. Calling out Toogeloo early in pt is towny. Their reads are believable. When they are scum they are more stilted.

PT? Who is in it?

Spoiler:

My PT partner brought up the fact that they don't trust me, that I could be scum, and that I basically asked for a free pass through Day 1.

For those not in the know, I was involved in a head on collision last Friday night. My kids were in the car with me. I was ambulances to the ER, but thankfully my kids walked away with minor injuries.

I am doing some daily physical therapy and we are working with lawyers and insurance right now, and in my down time I am trying to relax and rest.

I don't anticipate this being problematic beyond this week, but if people feel I'm getting a pass, or need to replace out, I will.

---

I have not read anything other than my PT. I actually didn't consider the possibility that my partner might consider us unaligned. Based on my show knowledge, I actually would have thought us Masons if my PM didn't specifically call us neighbors.

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone. We are in a PT called Kissing Siblings, which I don't recall them being incestual at all, lol.

At any rate, I will get to this eventually.

hey lovelies it's the beakiest bitch of them all ;)

uh I only read this past page and I think Gal/Rad town/town is above rand

Theres like 5 scenarios I imagine mutual paranoia going between S/S and T/S and "how would you react to that" and "we do this all the time so is this valid?" do not strike as scum dialogue

Also Bell townlean for healthy caution in the PT

Though in this case, the reason I pushed Toog is because they posted in thread that they were in a PT and that this implied that they were townie when there was no such indication.
I was uncomfortable with them implying that in thread as a request for a pass.

They also harbored zero doubt on my alignment. Asking me to summarize the game for them over the weekend.
It was weird. But not scummy weird. Just weird.

yeah no...i hate this post rather than just answering the queston with names.

This is a poor point to make.

[Dunnstral]

That's fine - but what about her interactions with you pinged town?

As I said, this is pretty subjective and is my own opinion. Nothing seemed off about Nancy, and I don't think she is super good at hiding that sort of thing.

[Dunnstral]

Not really - and I won't expand further for now.

What reason do you have to play this close to your chest?

[Dunnstral]

Bell
Enchant
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)

Bellaphant

PenguinPower
The toad
Dwlee99
Malakittens
MalcolmTucker

Roden
Corwinoid

Cephrir
Galron
JohnnyFarrar
BlueBloodedToffee

You have more of an opinion or the opposite opinion on all these people when compared to my list, Dunny. Can you give me some few words on each?

P-edit: you can skip the ones you're already covering obv

I am working on this

[Dunnstral]

But this is definitely how they play as town.

solely? because that seems weak when titus is known for vca.

My opinion is that they usually try to play like this as town, but much more rarely (relative to when they do this as town) try to do this as scum. I am not prepared to back this up with data, it is just my opinion.

[Dunnstral]

5 scum - 21 town

I didn't know this

I thought it was interesting. On EM there was a scum pr role called yakuza which converted 1 town player of the yakuza's choice into a scum goon during the night, and it kills the yakuza in the process. There was a competitive setup which used the role and it required an excessive amount of town slots compared to scum slots in order to be balanced. I'm guessing there will be some similar type of mechanic at work during the night here in this theme.

No, MS mods just criminally undersize large sized scum teams. It's entirely possible that the mod just slapped on 5 extra town and called this setup balanced

[Dunnstral]

Bell
Enchant
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)

Bellaphant

PenguinPower
The toad
Dwlee99
Malakittens
MalcolmTucker

Roden
Corwinoid

Cephrir
Galron
JohnnyFarrar
BlueBloodedToffee

You have more of an opinion or the opposite opinion on all these people when compared to my list, Dunny. Can you give me some few words on each?

P-edit: you can skip the ones you're already covering obv

Bell - 1257

Enchant - Posts 520, 523, 570, and 588 are pretty good. And while I had some mishaps in reading him while he was town before, I believe I caught on pretty quickly the one time they were actually scum. This game feels town.

Dancing Puppets - 1255, 1274, 1279, 1291

Bellaphant - They were null to me until some of their recent posts that suggest that they were thinking about things some more. This read is possibly weaker than I thought as I can't find the exact post that triggered my read to change

Penguinpower - I felt like they had little in the way of content and mostly had banter. Not much to go on other than that but they are below null.

The toad - I have little idea what they are thinking. They are not so bad upon review, in fact I'm not sure I'd even vote them, actually. But I do think they are a bit worse in my mind than the names above them. Not seeing anything super towny here at least

Dwlee99 - I didn't like post 171 because I pointed out that they only called out 1 instance of Gambler's fallacy. Their vote on Cephrir is still there and unexplained. I think it's not impossible for Dwlee to have a scummy looking start as town so that is why they are not lower even though I have more reasons.

Malakittens - They seem to have little desire to do anything

MalcolmTucker - They are reasonable but I get the sense they post kind of like this as both alignments. I think some of their pushes seem a little shady, including 526 and 1208

Roden - They have a narrow view into the game, only really responding to Frogster and Roden. It also feels like they are holding back considerably.

Corwinoid - First 2 posts are a bit scummy, the v/la and family emergency stuff is dead null, the trouble engaging with the game is a bit more likely to be mafia than town in my opinion. And they have notes but still haven't really posted anything makes it look more showy than real.

Cephrir - I hate to say this because of their AtE earlier in case I'm wrong, but looking at this objectively this is pretty much how Cephrir plays as scum. I categorize their scum play as a lot of complaining about the wagon on them and also their tone feeling slightly off all game and others commenting on it but it not being quite enough for a wagon to form.

Galron - Also a narrow viewpoint into the game, mostly looking at Frogster. I feel like their reads list in 1174[post] isn't really foreshadowed or explained anywhere else, especially the town reads, which makes it look fake.

JohnnyFarrar - I got the sense that you were floating around doing very little up to your post 918. After this point you start to talk about your reads some more and that is better but I believe you were prompted for most of that. And then it feels like you went back to doing not much until you showed interest in my reads which was surprising to me.

BlueBloodedToffee - [post]724. I think 1096 is a bad post, too.

[Dunnstral]

Galron - Also a narrow viewpoint into the game, mostly looking at Frogster. I feel like their reads list in 1174 isn't really foreshadowed or explained anywhere else, especially the town reads, which makes it look fake.

JohnnyFarrar - I got the sense that you were floating around doing very little up to your post 918. After this point you start to talk about your reads some more and that is better but I believe you were prompted for most of that. And then it feels like you went back to doing not much until you showed interest in my reads which was surprising to me.

BlueBloodedToffee - 724. I think 1096 is a bad post, too.

[Dunnstral]

Lukewarm
Bell
Rad
Enchant
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)

PookyTheMagicalBear
Cat Scratch Fever
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Taly
Bellaphant

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone
Frogsterking
Klick

PenguinPower
The toad
Malakittens
MalcolmTucker
Dwlee99

Roden
Corwinoid
JohnnyFarrar

Galron
Cephrir
BlueBloodedToffee

--------------

After some introspection and explaining some of my reads plus looking over people again, I'm going to say that the above is closer to what I am feeling right now

[Dunnstral]

You seem fine to me

[Dunnstral]

I have you as null because I don't think it is impossible for you to be posting like this as mafia, I wouldn't say you've done anything that looks bad right now, but I don't think that means a lot with no flips yet.

[Dunnstral]

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

[Dunnstral]

Why do you only speak directly in response to Frogster?

[Dunnstral]

That is referring to Roden

[Dunnstral]

322212121332122223312111212
~Cytosine

this is 27 numbers - there are 26 players in the game

did you mess up somewhere? can you double check and give me the right number pls

this is what your readlist looks like in my spreadsheet; I left out the last number

32221212133212222331211112
-Guanine

I'm reading this as the following:

Code: Select all

Town

Pooky
Off the Hook
Cephrir
Corwin
Dunn
T-Bone
Cat Scratch Fever
Lukewarm
PenguinPower


Null

Dancing Puppets
Malakittens
Taly
MalcolmTucker
Galron
Rad
The toad
Enchant
Dwlee
Bellaphant
JohnnyFarrar


Mafia

BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking
Roden
Klick
Bell

[Dunnstral]

Gullible how?

[Dunnstral]

That's not what gullible means Bell

[Dunnstral]

The one thing I'm very confident about is my lack of confidence in my reads.

@CSF they have the tone right, sort of. /: but it's meh.

Do you have any other reads you want to talk about?

[Dunnstral]

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

What do you mean?

[Dunnstral]

it's nice to know that whenever i want to pocket rad i can just make some pretty, rational sounding explanations and get a free pass :3

I know this is a joke but it makes me concerned on a personal level, because I am also this person.

just be cautious when dealing with strong players

i could produce a post like dunn's that i didn't believe at all if i felt like it

Who are you warning against in this post?

[Dunnstral]

I think that Cephrir is very good at making people feel bad about voting for him. As I mentioned before, I associate this with his scum game more than I do his town game. I feel like that is what is happening here.

[Dunnstral]

I am softening my read on Roden here. They just seem focused to me now, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Dunnstral]

I do think some people need to back track a little and start taking safer reads/stances. Since a lot of times I feel like they're town binning people for poor reasons or just because they responded to them.

I agree with this on principal

[Dunnstral]

I dunno why I have so many people putting me in their scum pile. I have 129 posts, I'm not a hard sort. This shouldn't be hard for them. But there I am, in the bottom half of half the player's reads.

To people who haven't played with you before, this can be taken as manipulative. I think that is what most of them are seeing - you being manipulative.

[Dunnstral]

Bell, in post 1166 you indicated that Cephrir was a town read for you. In 1552 your wording makes it seem like you instead wanted Cephrir killed. When did this shift in opinion occur?

[Dunnstral]

I dropped a TR on them but I never explicitly stated I dropped the scum read there. But I just did.

I'm pretty sure townreading and scumreading somebody is mutually exclusive. You're saying you were doing both at the same time?

[Dunnstral]

Don't do it Luke

[Dunnstral]

I dropped a TR on them but I never explicitly stated I dropped the scum read there. But I just did.

I'm pretty sure townreading and scumreading somebody is mutually exclusive. You're saying you were doing both at the same time?

...While not really the case here. Have I never given you the speech about how I tend t make town cases and scum cases for everyone and choose which narratives makes the most sense to me?
It's usually something I do late game. But I've had a couple of people get tripped up and then keep tripping on themselves because they can't comprehend the mental gymnastics involved.

I periodically clear out unimportant information from my memory banks.

[Dunnstral]

Don't do it Luke

What in the world is this in reference to?

Taly brought up activity to read me

[Dunnstral]

@Pooky, you made a mistake, CSF doesn’t have us as red, please fix, yw. :)

I did put you as red. I'm very uncertain about your slot, and I thought you weren't as present as I expected you to be, though tbf, I also didn't know your Internet was out yesterday.

I don't think Titus doing that VCA vote was town indicative btw (@whoever said that), since she has done it as scum before. It also doesn't make sense, since technically all wagons are counterwagons to Cephrir, so shouldn't Titus be voting Cephrir instead of Frogster by her own logic...? but that's not that important, I don't want to belabor this point since it's probably NAI

I don't understand "all wagons are counterwagons to Cephrir"

[Dunnstral]

Malcolm gets "my username is just my first and last name" points (pls don't dox us)

Mal was uneasy about Pooky townreads really early

428 looks poignant.

@Bell

what makes you think Mal dies d1 a lot?

I like the pushback on t-Bones post restriction push

I don't like Mal +1ing frogs idea to just make them use all their words

Mal townreads dweelee for a pooky vote???

@Mal

state your beef w/Pookington

1. Misrecalled, I skimmed a few games with them in it and they always seemed to be getting pressured for style/grammar. It was an oppos, but it kind of had a maybe happy ending through Luke's identification.
But it could be totally wrong. their posting hasn't been great since.

I don't think there's a case to be made for scum Penguin in the same way that there isn't a way to case someone who has never posted.
It's the Dunnstral problem.

Why is my name here?

I think the way PenguinPower reassessed his read on Dunnstral was very natural and it happened in real time, which makes it less likely that it was faked

1175 -- PP still townreading Dunnstral here. Then Dunnstral posted his readlist, and PP took major issue with it:

Spoiler:

mmmm....x to doubt your [Dunnstrals'] null reads.

dunn is yellow now

Bell
Rad
Enchant
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)

hate this.

dunn is orange now.

(this is about Dunnstral's townreads btw)

When did Bell?

I think he's town but I recall you FoSing him somewhere.

~Titus

I think that the way they are treating me comes from town them. Calling out Toogeloo early in pt is towny. Their reads are believable. When they are scum they are more stilted.

PT? Who is in it?

My PT partner brought up the fact that they don't trust me, that I could be scum, and that I basically asked for a free pass through Day 1.

For those not in the know, I was involved in a head on collision last Friday night. My kids were in the car with me. I was ambulances to the ER, but thankfully my kids walked away with minor injuries.

I am doing some daily physical therapy and we are working with lawyers and insurance right now, and in my down time I am trying to relax and rest.

I don't anticipate this being problematic beyond this week, but if people feel I'm getting a pass, or need to replace out, I will.

---

I have not read anything other than my PT. I actually didn't consider the possibility that my partner might consider us unaligned. Based on my show knowledge, I actually would have thought us Masons if my PM didn't specifically call us neighbors.

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone. We are in a PT called Kissing Siblings, which I don't recall them being incestual at all, lol.

At any rate, I will get to this eventually.

hey lovelies it's the beakiest bitch of them all ;)

uh I only read this past page and I think Gal/Rad town/town is above rand

Theres like 5 scenarios I imagine mutual paranoia going between S/S and T/S and "how would you react to that" and "we do this all the time so is this valid?" do not strike as scum dialogue

Also Bell townlean for healthy caution in the PT

Though in this case, the reason I pushed Toog is because they posted in thread that they were in a PT and that this implied that they were townie when there was no such indication.
I was uncomfortable with them implying that in thread as a request for a pass.

They also harbored zero doubt on my alignment. Asking me to summarize the game for them over the weekend.
It was weird. But not scummy weird. Just weird.

yeah no...i hate this post rather than just answering the queston with names.

I associate stoutly refusing to answer questions and being aggro like Penguin's done with Dunnstral here to be pretty town for him.

I think that this is a good point.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral tried to discredit town reads on Bell (483)
Then he TR Enchant when almost her entire ISO is naked votes. He also gives a LAMIST comment of 'I'm not giving anyone a pass' (720)
Then comes his over explained vote on me. SR me for confusing flavour/alignment (I was second to do it he says, so what about first and 3rd, are they scum, too?) Why am I different to the other two? SR me for saying we shouldn't be flavour claiming - completely NAI post and I believe Luke seconds this(?) so again, what's different? Then adds in that I'm naked voting people even though he is TR Enchant who has spent the entire game doing so.

PEdit - @Dancing, I didn't mention meta in my read on Penguin. What are you talking about? I clearly stated what I didn't like about Penguin and it happened in this game.

@T-Bone - I was voting Penguin. Now I am voting Dunnstral.

It's hard to be unbiased but it does feel like you are pick and choosing things to justify your vote here. For instance, I already talked about the first person to do it. I ended up thinking they were town after all.

[Dunnstral]

You said Ceph was a counterwagon to BBT when clearly that wasn't happening. One wasn't in response to the other. If anything BBT and Ceph at different points were counterwagons to Frogster. That you read Frog as town doesn't really change things. It's plausible that Frog was simply in your Blindspot because of that read, but from an outsider looking in, if you are placing importance on the idea of counterwagons and then not applying them evenly it looks intentional to me.

I think arguing about counter wagons is a really weak point right now. There are 21 town and 5 mafia, town has the majority of control during the voting phase. It's normal for there to be multiple wagons on day 1 as the game plays out and we get a better idea of what we are thinking.

CSF, you said that you thought Mafia were doing a good job of blending in. I'm not sure that is the case; all we can wagon for right now is how people are acting. I believe there are some good points to be made for a number of players being town, and a bunch more who it is too early to tell. I believe mafia to be mainly in the second group and not the group most people think are town.

[Dunnstral]

You demand that people case you before they vote you when you haven't done anything so there's no evidence of anti-town intent or play.

I don't think that this is true at all.

[Dunnstral]

Also, did Dunnstral drop off the face of the earth or what happened there? You can answer this Dunnstral.
Are you bored or something?

Yeah kind of, and I've been preoccupied with doing other stuff. I think we need to start being more aggressive in general now and be more willing to vote for people, my opinions are not changing very much from new posts I am reading.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dancing Puppets

Seems to make sense when focusing on the feedback from players I townread.

FYI the main opposition to scum!Puppets is coming from Dunn. I think CSF adequately addressed Dunn's reason for townreading Puppets.

On a personal level I'm not a fan of the way they are playing the past few pages. I don't think the way they are playing makes them more likely to be mafia, though.

[Dunnstral]

I think that NM has above average reads tbh

I've heard he has actually been doing a lot better than his previous meta.

I am amazed anyone can read lack of posts besides hammering

Has Not Mafia started to provide content?

Did anyone else catch this? I think Math is town.

~N

Not knowing the whole player list is not a town tell in any way

[Dunnstral]

Narrowing down my willing to vote list. Yes there are still 12 names here, no it doesn't mean I'm actively looking to lim you yet. I have just removed the other half of the player list from my consideration one way or another, and haven't had those aha moments for any of these players yet. I'm on the verge of removing a few more names.

Spoiler: WtV List

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Frogsterking
The toad
Enchant
Bellaphant
Klick
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

Malakittens
MalcolmTucker
The toad

For me off of that list

[Dunnstral]

Reasons I think that Corwin was scum:

Johnny, you had an earlier town read on Luke, do you still feel that way and why?

Yeah, they haven't done anything to disturb that halo on their head. You think I missed something?

Not necessarily. My notes are "Dislike Frog and Luke, feels like ~350ish is s/s [\n] JF TR Luke?" so I've just been meaning to ask about it. Something wasn't rubbing right around then, but I suspect a lot of you have a better feel for him as a player than I do.

The copy paste off of the notes.

The notes look non-useful. But also, they literally never responded to the comments about their notes. They said nothing, but also never mention anything off of their notes again.

I actually think that if they had defended their notes usage I would have felt better about this. But the non-response just felt like them hoping it would go away.

---

Only person listed in his lowest tier for scum in 1442 was Mala. But then also seemed annoyed that he was being scum read for lurking.

Both of those are...

fine

on their own, but taken together rub me the wrong way. Like, how can you not be understanding of those scum reads, if you think that the scummiest person in the game is someone that the only words you put towards why you scum read them was

mala who's been both low activity and low content when she is posting.

I think these are good points. I also brought up the notes in post 1355, and Corwinoid responded to my post:

Corwinoid - First 2 posts are a bit scummy, the v/la and family emergency stuff is dead null, the trouble engaging with the game is a bit more likely to be mafia than town in my opinion. And they have notes but still haven't really posted anything makes it look more showy than real.

It doesn't help that every time I get a break between work and family I show up to 10 more pages.

I'm a little concerned about how little of BBT we're seeing in this game. Both of the other games I've played with him he was pretty active. Makes that slot hard to read.

I still have a gap between pages 30 and 50 to catch up on (which I'll try to get through in the next few hours), but I feel like Bell's been looking for easy wagons to start on LA/VLA players, going from me to Toog to CSF, and I'm not sure what after that

I believe that BlueBloodedToffee said or made it seem like Corwinoid had a weird read on them based on past games played.

Mathblade feels frantic. I'm not sure what to make of that, or why they would be feeling that way. I do know that I am not seeing it as good content.

I said I wouldn't vote Corwinoid today because he was having family issues, but since he's replaced out I no longer have an issue with voting there.

VOTE: Mathblade

A thought that started unrelated to Corwin was thinking about the way that the scum team is apparently treating me. When pooky posted the reads list, and I apparently had 19 town reads and 0 scum reads, I realized that that meant that at some point the entire scum team decided that it was not worth it to fight the growing consensus that I am town.

Obviously, the scum team would not have thought that out the gate. Early on there were a couple of people saying that they are hesitant to town read me in general (pooky, Bella) and some people outright scum reading me (Galron, Rad, Frog).

So the scum team should have thought that there would be possible support against me at some point (unless the scum team is exactly Pooky, Bella, Galron, Rad, Frog lmao), but then at some point this game decided to abandon hope of keeping me from becoming truly consensus.

And when I read through Corwin's iso last night, I felt like I saw that when I looked at his progression on me.

I started to gather up town reads, and he started trying to poke into them with 1107/1114. Floating me as one of his only two voiced scum reads, floating me as a partner to a fairly widely scum read player, and trying to talk Johnny out of town reading me.

But then he was met with strong backlash about his comment about his notes.

And that discussion was completely and totally dropped.

The next time I show up in his iso, almost all of the other reads lists have come out showing how consensus town read I am, and then I am not a scum read in his Reads list of 1442. No comment on anything I did making him think that I was town, no interaction with me, nothing.

And when it was brought up that I was not on there, here was his response.

Aren't you the one who had me and frogster as S+S in your notes? What changed?

That was me. I'm feeling Frog even less; you've just kinda dropped off my radar right now.

He scum reads frog even harder then before, but he just stopped thinking about me.

Which did not jive for me with the fact that his earlier working theory was that we specifically looked partnered. Because if he thinks two players look partnered, and then thinks that one of them is getting even more scummy, I just don't feel like you forget about that other player. If anything, he should have been looking at me even more??

I'm not sure why Corwinoid would be specifically attacking you. You are right that they stopped talking about you, which I feel is a better point.

[Dunnstral]

Thank you for doing what your hydra partner couldn't!

I think that you are talking to the same person that you were having a problem with earlier.

[Dunnstral]

Math, why do you townread Cephrir? I thought his scumcase on Malcolm was meh, and the way the bolded was worded kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Spoiler:

Is there some question other than the quoted one that's being evaded here? It looks answered enough to me. This post feels to me like the conclusion ("I'm going to attack Roden now") came before the substance...

Roden can be interested in whatever he damn well feels like

And DNA hydra - what is there to townread there?

The intro wagon on him was really fast and it didn’t feel like a scum wagon.

In response to your DNA question

I’m Sun. You can figure it out from there. If you can’t I’ll consult with my inner voice to me more explicit.

I’d appreciate it if you backed off. It’s way too late at night for me to do a proper defense but I think y’all are capable of reading between the lines.

I’m Sun. You can figure it out from there. If you can’t I’ll consult with my inner voice to me more explicit.

My opinion on the Hydra posting restriction, is that if it is real he is likely in a neighborhood with Sun.

That would give the slot an outlet to talk as much as they waty, and a way to keep communicating after they have run out of words (Jin getting Sun to "translate" for him). We also know that there is at least 2 claimed neighborhoods at this point. Could be with Toog, or could be a 3rd hood.

Can you like back off please if you’re town?

It’s hard enough trying to read everything and relay the hood properly and catch up.

If you think I am scum push me tomorrow or the next day

It’s really destructive and unfun to push me right now.

I was really hoping you’d see what I was saying if you’re town and why I scumread you.

I should not have had to claim here.

Math is town. told all of you naysayers, now hopefully you will take my reads seriously. :)

Is the "told all of you naysayers " because he claimed his hood?

Because we have at least 6 players in hoods this game. Don't think that is an alignment indicative role tbh

It’s 100% not alignment confirming. I agree. It’s how I am playing it that is.

Why do you say at least 6 players have hoods? The game is bastard and the concept is people stranded.

I could see it possible scum can’t coordinate based on the lack of wagoning.

This isn't a convincing reason for me to not vote for you. I really don't think anything you could have done in a hood really makes you look town here, especially not if we're taking your word for it.

[Dunnstral]

I am noting that C & G put Corwin in their townreads when prompted.

[Dunnstral]

I can't be the only person to have seen post 23.

[Dunnstral]

Lukewarm
Klick
Frogsterking
Malakittens
Enchant
Rad
Bellaphant
------------
Cephrir
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
PookyTheMagicalBear
Dunnstral
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Galron
Corwinoid
Bell
Cat Scratch Fever
T-Bone
Taly
JohnnyFarrar
Roden
---------------------
Dwlee99
MalcolmTucker
The toad
PenguinPower
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)

Bad reads list, you also get to be scum

I'm going to go listen to sensory fruit goodbye

Dwlee can you explain what you find bad about this list? Is it just your own position or do you have other reasons? If you have thoughts you haven't made them clear here.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Rad

How confident do you feel in this read?

[Dunnstral]

Pooky, if you're taking requests then move me to town in Bell's reads.

[Dunnstral]

Topic: why my read turned around on Math

(No quotes because phone posting. )

It was our conversation about whether the scum team had day talk. Thinking they might not would be a town slip, obviously.

And after talking to him about it, it really felt like a genuine thought.

It does not feel like an angle that scun would even think to take in that moment?

But he not only said it, he doubled down.

When I asked several questions about how he came to that hypothesis, it felt like he had pretty hood answers.

"Sees post about 6 people being in pts" -> "knows he and CG are two people in pts" -> "Thinks CG is town" -> "6-2=4, does that mean the whole scum team is not in PTs?" -> "that would explain why there don't seem to be a lot of scum coordination on wagons" -> present theory to the thread

It tracked pretty smoothly, and was explained during real time conversation.

How can you be in a neighborhood with day talk and think that scum don't have day talk, though?

[Dunnstral]

Aaa fuck that's the grenade dropping I was trying to stop.

Far be it for me to jump to conclusions but there's one conclusion I immediately jump to.

I don’t know what conclusions you’re reaching?

That post is so out of context I think it was meant for a PT

But but

Scum don’t have daytalk

So no

Is this serious?

[Dunnstral]

Tell me more about how selfless you are. I’ll believe it as soon as the game is over and you say it again.

This is spicy.

[Dunnstral]

Uhh, can someone compile all the hood claims? Every page I’m learning about a new one.

Bell - Taly
Luke - Cat Scratch Fever
Cytosine and Guanine - Mathblade
Dancing Puppets - Klick

[Dunnstral]

This site bleeds players because it’s popularity versus discussion

I'm not sure what you are talking about. I'm not giving anybody a pass for "popularity".

[Dunnstral]

I don't think MathBlade is arguing in good faith right now.

[Dunnstral]

@johnny, don't have one, would be shocked if it didn't involve at least one you, mala, ceph or pp. Then maybe bell.

P-edit I don't want you to be Bella like? I'm saying that I'm surprised at how difficult I am finding it to read you this game.

Can you explain a bit about how you are reading me right now?

[Dunnstral]

@johnny, don't have one, would be shocked if it didn't involve at least one you, mala, ceph or pp. Then maybe bell.

P-edit I don't want you to be Bella like? I'm saying that I'm surprised at how difficult I am finding it to read you this game.

Can you explain a bit about how you are reading me right now?

Is it ok if I do this in the morning? It'd really help me actually If you could give me a few sentences about where your head in the game is overall - what do you think is going on with the wagons, any replacements that have shifted your thinking, anything that's stood out as particularly scumny/towny, etc.

I don't mind if you do it later, I'm just not understanding why you've had me as scum all game. I've seen little effort to reevaluate and you are not including me in lists like in 3707.

What I think is going on with the wagons is that most of the town is playing too passive which makes it hard to do anything until they feel more pressured by the deadline.

[Dunnstral]

My read on the Taly slot was that I thought Toog's second post was slightly town indicative. They seemed genuinely bewildered that they could be considered as scum.

[Dunnstral]

I think Corwin got a bad rap because he started the game away from it and had to come in on the back foot with people scum reading him when he literally wasn't in the game yet. He didn't let himself get sucked into it too much. He asked questions about people's reads, he gave his own observations pretty freely without having to be pestered. When I pressed him about his read on BBT, I felt he gave the type of honest answer that scum don't often give (basically a nice nuanced idk). And yeah, I tend to town read people who have similar reads to mine. I never played with Corwin before, so it's not like he would know that and do something about it. Nor am I a big enough presence to warrant such treatment. I also thought he was pretty open to continually revaluate his reads. So like, yeah I initially town read him for a joke, but he came into it in a way that satisfied me. He also didn't make any posts I found scummy, so I don't even know of any examples in this game that would counter the positives of what I have seen.

As for Mathblade, most of his posts are NAI. It's clear he is crumbling to the pressure, but I don't think it's because he's scum, i think it's because he's frustrated. We can't scumread everyone for getting upset when they are scum read.

This post about Corwin is sort of convincing. I disagree that Mathblade's posts are NAI though, I really don't like the points they keep bringing up about popularity in this game, I don't agree with that at all and they are making sweeping generalizations. I also did not like that when Pooky linked games where they were indeed eliminated on day 1 Math said "only 4 times n 20 years". It was a fast rebuttal without really looking into things.

[Dunnstral]

My read on the Taly slot was that I thought Toog's second post was slightly town indicative. They seemed genuinely bewildered that they could be considered as scum.

I am genuinely bewildered that anyone can consider me scum.

Or town.

I have big cult leader energy. Who wants to be recruited?

But also like half the players in this playlist keep asserting they are obviously town and we all should see it, why is this one different?

It's different because it was based on a misunderstanding of their role rather than a sort of grandstanding about how other people should read them. They claim they thought they were a mason and gave an explanation.

Now that I write that out though, that seems shaky. The role pm they received would not have said they were cleared.

I don't feel strongly either way about Taly's posts.

[Dunnstral]

We had to also reply to the game mod to confirm our roles...so Toog forgot that they would have replied neighbor or something like that to STD?

Actually that you reminded me we had to do that makes this worse in retrospect.

What do the neighbor players think of this?

[Dunnstral]

I think Math's posts, specifically the ones you are citing, is NAI because I think it's just his reaction to the pressure. He's not handling it well right now and wouldn't be making those posts were he.

Also there's like a little bit of validity in the idea of momentum in this game. It's not wrong to say that theere is no momentum to lim Pooky. That's objectively true at the moment. I don't think it's because of Pooky's popularity, I think it's because he's been null posting to kinda helpful with the reads spreadsheet (even though he hasn't posted an update to it in DAYS).

This post about Corwin is sort of convincing. I disagree that Mathblade's posts are NAI though, I really don't like the points they keep bringing up about popularity in this game, I don't agree with that at all and they are making sweeping generalizations. I also did not like that when Pooky linked games where they were indeed eliminated on day 1 Math said "only 4 times n 20 years". It was a fast rebuttal without really looking into things.

I also disliked all of those posts.

But it all felt like it came from him just being incredibly tilted. And town can tilt.

I also feel like Titus predicted the future.

Anyone who is anyone knows Math's response to pressure is to hyperpost. It's a compulsion regardless of his alignment. Math hyperposting would cause reads to get stale and disorient the strong townblock.

Alright, I'm not going to be gunning for them anymore then.

UNVOTE:

[Dunnstral]

It's different because it was based on a misunderstanding of their role rather than a sort of grandstanding about how other people should read them. They claim they thought they were a mason and gave an explanation.

Now that I write that out though, that seems shaky. The role pm they received would not have said they were cleared.

Looking back at the neighbor portion of my role pm, I actually find it odd to come to the conclusion that it would mean you were masons if his wording was the same.

I actually just went back to see exactly what Toog said

I have not read anything other than my PT. I actually didn't consider the possibility that my partner might consider us unaligned. Based on my show knowledge, I actually would have thought us Masons if my PM didn't specifically call us neighbors.

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone.

And I realized that maybe he was thinking flavor matched alignment? Because the mod confirmed the Flavor of my neighbor.

So, if he thought that the mafia would be the show's villians, being told that Bell was Boone might have come across that way maybe?

This is a bit goofy but I can see them looking at their role, seeing that they knew another player's flavor, and jumping to conclusions as something plausible

[Dunnstral]

My PT partner brought up the fact that they don't trust me, that I could be scum, and that I basically asked for a free pass through Day 1.

---

I have not read anything other than my PT. I actually didn't consider the possibility that my partner might consider us unaligned. Based on my show knowledge, I actually would have thought us Masons if my PM didn't specifically call us neighbors.

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone. We are in a PT called Kissing Siblings, which I don't recall them being incestual at all, lol.

At any rate, I will get to this eventually.

I think that this post feels a bit more likely to have been posted as town than as mafia. If they were mafia, then this post means they were making it their goal to try to get townread for this post, and I personally believe that this is a bit of a weird angle for mafia to take, and also a bit risky.

[Dunnstral]

Make it snappy Mala

[Dunnstral]

Is anyone townreading Roden? I'd like to hear why

I find it a bit odd that there's not really been a lot of major attempts to defend Roden, but it's also been a bit of a struggle getting the wagon to pick up. If Roden is scum makes me wonder if teammates have stayed distance from the slot while there's not necessarily been proper sustained pressure there as such. I've yet to see anyone particularly outline why their play is town though.

There are too many town alive in relation to mafia for this to be a good argument, I feel. If Roden is mafia then there are only 4 other mafia to be holding back, and 17 townies, assuming that all teammates are indeed keeping distance.

This would be more credible if we knew that mafia had a hand in hopping onto other wagons but not this one, but we don't have that information.

[Dunnstral]

Dwlee can you explain what you find bad about this list? Is it just your own position or do you have other reasons? If you have thoughts you haven't made them clear here.

@Dwlee99

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Roden

[Dunnstral]

I don't need you to dive me, just to explain why you have me as mafia right now.

[Dunnstral]

Masons in a game without flips feels like it could be messy, but I don't actually know the best way to try to avoid the messiness :/

It opens Roden up to claiming mason with any random person who dies.

[Dunnstral]

I think that a second mason should step forward or Roden should die. I am willing to discuss this before leaping to action.

[Dunnstral]

I think leaving a second mason unclaimed is more hurtful if Roden is town. We will never really be able to trust a mason claim unless they claim it immediately after Roden dies at night. And if they plan on doing that, there is no difference in claiming at that point or right now.

[Dunnstral]

He hard flavor claimed Rose and hard flavor claimed his mason partner as Bernard.

Doing it that way would be risky as hell if it were faked. Either by not being Rose or by Bernard not being a mason with him.

The only way it would make sense if faked would be if he is in private communication with Bernard.

So, the possible scenarios, imo are:

1)Roden is a mason with Bernard.
2)Roden is a neighbor with Bernard, and the two of the collectively agreed to fake claim masons
3)Roden is scum with Bernard.


3 seems unlikely, as that would imply that when the alignments of the player list was randed Rose and Bernard both happened to rand as scum

2, I guess could be happening, but I feel like most players would distrust that idea intrinsically. (Although, Bernard, if you are reading this, and you agreed with to a mason fake claim, please stop. And. Don't let that be a thing.)

This post assumes too many things.

It's possible that Roden is one of Rose/Bernard and is informed that the other is not in the game. Maybe mafia are given a list of flavors that are not in the game. Maybe he just made it up after all.

[Dunnstral]

TOWN

PookyTheMagicalBear

Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Galron
Corwinoid
Bell
Dunnstral
Lukewarm

NULL

BlueBloodedToffee
Malakittens
Taly/Toogeloo
MalcolmTucker
Enchant
Bellaphant
Klick
JohnnyFarrar
T-Bone
Cat Scratch Fever/humaneatingmonkey
PenguinPower

SCUM

Cephrir
The toad
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)

TBD

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Frogsterking
Rad
Dwlee99

To Be Determined can be considered Null for the chart if necessary. I just have them separated because I want to see their play over time rather than needing to see more AI content in general.

Right now I'm around here:

Cult Recruitment 1.1:

PenguinPower
Dunnstral
Malcolm
Bell
Klick
Cat Scratch Fever
Toogeloo
T-Bone
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)


On the Waitlist:
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)

Roden

Rad
The toad
Enchant
Dwlee99
Bellaphant
Lukewarm


Willing to Feed to Polar Bears:

Cephrir
JohnnyFarrar
Corwinoid
BlueBloodedToffee
Galron
Frogsterking

[Dunnstral]

Roden is lying. I will give reasoning shortly.

[Dunnstral]

Frogsterking, Cat Scratch Fever, Cytosine and Guanine, MalcolmTucker, Bellaphant, Dunnstral, Klick, Enchant

These are players who were voting for Roden, which forced him to claim. It is safe to assume that masons wouldn't be bussing, right? So these players are not masons with Roden.

Lukewarm, ProfessorDrapion

These players reactions following the claim make it obvious that they are not masons with Roden.

Off The Hook

In post 704 OTH writes that Roden is in their "list of interests". Post 1577 further cements that OTH is not masons with Roden.

Cephrir, JohnnyFarrar, BlueBloodedToffee, RCEnigma, Rad

These players are not masons with Roden because of the way that Roden treated them.

In post 1572 Roden lists Cephrir and the toad (RCEnigma) as mafia in their reads list.

In post 2195 Roden says that BBT looks like they are "trying to create a narrative". That is not how masons talk to each other in the main thread. Also, BBT is listed as null in his reads before this.

In post 2203 Roden shows that they are isoing JohnnyFarrar, and while they have a vaguely positive impression, it seems unlikely that Roden is using some of his limited thread time on reading his own mason partners iso and ending with "it's fine". Also, Johnny is listed as null in his reads before this.

In post 861 Roden says that Rad's post is "Day Vig-able"

Dancing Puppets, Taly, Mathblade

These players are all in neighborhoods. As we've learned with toogeloo, neighbors know each others flavor. The alleged other mason has the flavor "Bernard". Additionally, I think it unlikely that any neighbor would also be a mason with a completely different person.

Dwlee99, T-Bone, Malakittens, Best Bird

Listed as "Null" or "TBD" in Roden's read list in post 1572, and then never mentioned again.

Best Bird has Roden as null in 1173

PookyTheMagicalBear

The last person left and the top of Roden's town list. They list Roden as null in 883.

[Dunnstral]

Between masons? On day 1? in a 26 person game? Where roles don't flip on death?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: dunn

I have no idea why you voted for me.

[Dunnstral]

Assume Roden is lying (your premise)

Roden’s alignment still flips I think
So then if Roden flips mafia then whatever

Roden flips town and confirms anyone else claiming mason the next day. Someone who isnt mason claims mason then gets CCd by any/real masons depending on size of masonry.

What is the advantage to having a second mason claim after Roden dies, and not before?

[Dunnstral]

Assume Roden is lying (your premise)

Roden’s alignment still flips I think
So then if Roden flips mafia then whatever

Roden flips town and confirms anyone else claiming mason the next day. Someone who isnt mason claims mason then gets CCd by any/real masons depending on size of masonry.

What is the advantage to having a second mason claim after Roden dies, and not before?

Second mason is confirmed town.

That isn't an explanation for why not claiming now is a good idea.

[Dunnstral]

What is the advantage to having a second mason claim after Roden dies, and not before?

so the scum can't shoot both of the masons on n1 n2?

i mean if we dont care and we just want to throw those deaths away I guess fine?

If a mason does not claim immediately following Roden's death, we cannot fully trust the claim; they won't be confirmed town anymore.

[Dunnstral]

Let me start from the beginning, with a basic premise:

How is a mason claiming immediately after Roden dies superior to a mason claiming right now?

The mafia kills happen at the same time in both scenarios, it is actually not advantageous at all for the second mason to hold off on their claim.

If the argument is to wait even longer before claiming, then the mason result becomes unreliable. It's already looking like town would have a hard time explaining how they are masons with Roden.

[Dunnstral]

This was not an intentional post.

It was though. That's why I bolded what I felt were the relevant parts.

[Dunnstral]

Lukewarm you are overthinking things really hard right now.

[Dunnstral]

There are so many pages

Can you take a look at 3038?

[Dunnstral]

I am of the opinion that Bernard should claim if he exists.

If no one claims masons with Roden, we kill Roden.

If someone does, we kill Dunn

This is fine

Why is it fine?

[Dunnstral]

1. Roles are not revealed upon kills, but alignment is. There may or may not be ways to uncover roles. Flavor is not revealed upon flip.

[Dunnstral]

I think you aren't being open to the reasons roden's claim could be true, Dunn.

Why do you think that makes me more likely to be mafia?

[Dunnstral]

its funny because if LLD had claimed mason dunn would be hiding in a cave somewhere hehehehehe

I don't know what you are referring to.

[Dunnstral]

Oi, somebody give me a rationale why we're hunting for or trying to kill a mason claim D1 that isn't completely insane?

Sure. I think that Roden is fake claiming. I also believe that due to the unique mechanics of this set up, there is no benefit to the remaining potential mason keeping quiet. They are already "burned" and would have to claim immediately following Roden's death, before anyone else dies.

[Dunnstral]

1. They probably did not do this. I checked.
2. Yes I do, on the basis of not having high expectations from town.
3. 1 in 3 if we go by popular consensus on who can be a mason partner. Less if any of those players are mafia.
4. I don't see the relevance in this

[Dunnstral]

So Roden. Did you have a super special crumb that Dwlee could have referenced after you died, like multiple players have suggested; or was there nothing like that?

Because if there was nothing like that then your partner claiming here was absolutely necessary. I would not have personally believed Dwlee if they had claimed after you had died.

[Dunnstral]

The issue isn’t that he pushed to claim in retrospect, it was that they were scum reading them post claim without thinking through the downsides of claiming Mason D1 as scum.

I too am in the I dunno if dunnstral scum is this silly about a d1 claim.

You need to work on your comprehension here. I didn't say that Roden was scum, I said that he was lying about his claim and gave reasoning. I also gave reasoning for why I thought he was lying about his claim. I

also

gave reasoning for why it was beneficial for him to finish the claim even if he was telling the truth. And it was beneficial; Roden admits they never made that crumb.

[Dunnstral]

If Roden wasn't forced to claim he would have had his crumb out and so I would I have shortly after

We aren't incompetent...

Sure. But the fact remains that he was forced to claim, and he didn't have the crumb out. It doesn't really matter what you guys intended to do, once it didn't happen you needed to claim.

[Dunnstral]

So basically you’re saying that you had unassailable logic and you did nothing wrong.

Can you take a step back and summarize what your issue with me here is?

[Dunnstral]

The issue isn’t that he pushed to claim in retrospect, it was that they were scum reading them post claim without thinking through the downsides of claiming Mason D1 as scum.

I too am in the I dunno if dunnstral scum is this silly about a d1 claim.

You need to work on your comprehension here. I didn't say that Roden was scum, I said that he was lying about his claim and gave reasoning. I also gave reasoning for why I thought he was lying about his claim. I

also

gave reasoning for why it was beneficial for him to finish the claim even if he was telling the truth. And it was beneficial; Roden admits they never made that crumb.

???

Are you saying that you thought I was town lying about being Masons? Why push me to claim further then?

No that's not exactly what I'm saying. I didn't push for you to claim because of a scumread, I pushed for you to claim because:

1) I believe the mechanics of the setup would punish us for staggering the claims
2) I believed it was possible that you were lying based on comparing how you treated other people. I still don't understand why you were not town reading your mason partner in your 1 post where you mention them. Do you not understand how that can cause problems further into the game?
3) I believe that once you had claimed mason, you had to have your partner claim either the same day or the day after. In both cases, mafia can kill both masons.

I'll end this by saying that I don't think masons are nearly as important as they are being made out to be, nor do I think that making the

second

person claim here is what is going to cause a mason to die. We probably have stronger roles in this game, and just knowing that you two are claiming mason narrows things down.

[Dunnstral]

You said they were lying when they weren’t.
They’re town. You made an assumption they didn’t crumb. You thought that it was an actual claim that scum would choose to make.

Are you saying that I was wrong or that it makes me mafia?

And to be clear, I don't believe that I was wrong with what I had to work with, nor do I believe that making Dwlee claim was the wrong move.

[Dunnstral]

The issue isn’t that he pushed to claim in retrospect, it was that they were scum reading them post claim without thinking through the downsides of claiming Mason D1 as scum.

I too am in the I dunno if dunnstral scum is this silly about a d1 claim.

You need to work on your comprehension here. I didn't say that Roden was scum, I said that he was lying about his claim and gave reasoning. I also gave reasoning for why I thought he was lying about his claim. I

also

gave reasoning for why it was beneficial for him to finish the claim even if he was telling the truth. And it was beneficial; Roden admits they never made that crumb.

???

Are you saying that you thought I was town lying about being Masons? Why push me to claim further then?

3) I believe that once you had claimed mason, you had to have your partner claim either the same day or the day after. In both cases, mafia can kill both masons.
.

So one of the reasons you pushed him was because of salt?

No, it wasn't. I'm not sure how you are interpreting what I said in that way.

[Dunnstral]

If you didn't think I'm scum then what is the pro-town reason for pushing a Mason claim and trying to out the other Mason?

You are misunderstanding; Bell claimed that I was moving goalposts, I went back and pointed out that I wasn't actually arguing that you had to be scum to make claiming correct here. Never did I say "Roden needs to claim, because I think he is scum".

[Dunnstral]

You said they were lying when they weren’t.
They’re town. You made an assumption they didn’t crumb. You thought that it was an actual claim that scum would choose to make.

Are you saying that I was wrong or that it makes me mafia?

And to be clear, I don't believe that I was wrong with what I had to work with, nor do I believe that making Dwlee claim was the wrong move.

Why did you even push the damn Mason in the first place?
I stayed on Math, you know, a beneficial info execution that helps us.
If your telling me that mason push helps us in any way, claim wolf.

I did not know that Roden was a mason when I voted for him.

[Dunnstral]

If Math is scum Pooky is bussing lol

3856, 3861, 3943

You should read these posts

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

I think that BlueBloodedToffee looks reasonable in their response. At the same time, I dislike that it does not feel like they are trying to figure out who is mafia.

[Dunnstral]

You need to take a step back and stop reacting to every post I make, I think.

[Dunnstral]

You need to take a step back and stop reacting to every post I make, I think.

Who’s this to and what’s it to?

It's at you. Your responses are nonsense. The stuff about the salt and frog.

[Dunnstral]

Remember CSF is the most spewed wolf if Math is Wolf.
Doesn’t directly mean CSF is Lock Wolf but it means out of every player in the game it’s the most likely due to actions and how they handled themselves and math’s slot during the specific time of which math had heat and it was becoming less hot.

Can you point these out?

[Dunnstral]

You need to take a step back and stop reacting to every post I make, I think.

Who’s this to and what’s it to?

It's at you. Your responses are nonsense. The stuff about the salt and frog.

I mean for the Salt Part yeah I can understand that but where did you talk about Frog again?
I thought I was talking to someone else about Frog.

4623

[Dunnstral]

A long time ago, he used to have dramatically different town and scum games, like as different as mine. I'm not sure if that's still the case after playing with flavor leaf so many times, but i gut townread his posts.

And the toads posts we're trending upwards before they repped out too

I've hardcore skimmed the last however many pages and read MathBlade's ISO, and he just looks lost to me. Can you explain what were DNA's reads, and what are yours - I remember Bell and ...? Summarize the hood discussion for us plz, that might help me see why you're townreading DNA. Also how caught up are you

Is Klick still town? What's the VC? I don't know anything anymore

Math are you a meta guy? 984 - I think Frogster is town, and around the time I posted that is when the Frogster wagon stalled (some ppl also TR'd him for the meds comment)

Okay, I am not sharing your opinion that these posts mean that CSF is mafia if Math is. Especially linking him to other posts feels a bit more unlikely to be aligned. Not somethign that can't be faked for sure but I wouldn't point to that as evidence of the two being aligned.

[Dunnstral]

The above post really confuses me

[Dunnstral]

They said not to share some reads. So I abide by that.

But why?

[Dunnstral]

And by that I mean, why are they being secretive with their reads.

[Dunnstral]

hesitant to lim anyone in a claimed hood rn

Why? Being in a neighborhood does not make you less likely to be mafia. And there are a lot of people in neighborhoods.

[Dunnstral]

hesitant to lim anyone in a claimed hood rn

Why? Being in a neighborhood does not make you less likely to be mafia. And there are a lot of people in neighborhoods.

easier to read as time goes on in my experience, plus its one way to just limit the collective pool since finding cohesion seems incredibly difficult right now.

im also still pretty lost why you wanted mason claims.

I feel I've went into great detail on why I did what I did, you should look over my recent iso again.

[Dunnstral]

I am fine with letting Johnny finish whatever they are doing here before making comments or rushing to start a wagon on them.

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn

Why did you think that I was in a hood with CSF earlier?

I was making a guess. I was aware that you had not claimed.

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn

Why did you think that I was in a hood with CSF earlier?

I was making a guess. I was aware that you had not claimed.

If you were aware i had not claimed, why did you choose to out it?

Also, what was the reason behind the guess?

I thought I saw a lack of in-thread interactions between you two that meant neighbors. This was not as in-depth of a read as what I did with the masons.

As for why I did it, the game was getting boring and I wanted to see how people would react if I were right in my guess.

[Dunnstral]

By appearing informed?

That wasn't really my intent at the time, anyone can guess at who Luke's neighbor is.

[Dunnstral]

I also do not think a hidden neighbor is particularly important.

[Dunnstral]

I am confident that I could get myself out of being eliminated by claiming my role, so I wasn't worried.

[Dunnstral]

Johnny, I really though you were going somewhere else with all of that questioning

[Dunnstral]

Johnny, I really though you were going somewhere else with all of that questioning

I genuinely have no idea what you could be talking about. This has been a frustrating conversation

I thought when you were asking everybody for their read on me that you had some sort of plan at the end.

[Dunnstral]

I am confident that I could get myself out of being eliminated by claiming my role, so I wasn't worried.

- Am a PR that is good enough to buy a day if claimed (And therefore, likely a PR that should not be told to the scum team unless absolutely necessary)
- Am bored

"Lets do something that could totally lead people to logically draw the conclusion that I am scum, because then I just claim my PR day 1. No harm, no foul. "

I am not strongly opposed to claiming my role today.

[Dunnstral]

You were asking questions like you had a purpose.

[Dunnstral]

Uhh, can someone compile all the hood claims? Every page I’m learning about a new one.

Bell - Taly
Luke - Cat Scratch Fever
Cytosine and Guanine - Mathblade
Dancing Puppets - Klick

It feels like you are saying that I should just be accepting that this is a post where you were rolling the dice and potentially killing yourself (or Cat Scratch Fever) Because you were bored.

I remember thinking that the people who jumped on it seemed like town.

[Dunnstral]

OK, let me clear something up. It wasn't because I was bored; I thought we could get something out of it. I thought the arguments at the time were boring and unlikely to lead to me changing my opinions - I think I said as much at the time, too.

[Dunnstral]

I am going to attempt to soft my role to Lukewarm. This should be fairly cryptic but not impossible to figure out.

"...but it's what you are going to get."

[Dunnstral]

Yay I beat the nightmare king. Moving on in life.

Congrats.

[Dunnstral]

I am going to attempt to soft my role to Lukewarm. This should be fairly cryptic but not impossible to figure out.

"...but it's what you are going to get."

This is not a strength of mine, so I don't have any idea what this means.

This isn't going to work, then.

[Dunnstral]

Feel free to let me know if you think that that means I got it wrong.

Yeah, you're wrong, you don't need to use a wiki for this.

[Dunnstral]

And it is related to this game.

[Dunnstral]

So, gonna say that we failed to communicate lmao

Well if it's not related to flavor, it can only be related to my role.

[Dunnstral]

I don't like this game.

Don't worry, I was being pretty cryptic. But at the same time already feel like other people can figure it out.

[Dunnstral]

Do you think that I looked at the right post, but just interpreted wrong?

Or, if the most obvious thing from the post would have been a flavor reference, do you think I was completely on the wrong trail?

I don't know what post you are looking at. All I can say to this is that I'm not referring to flavor, so if there is a way to interpret both a role and flavor, go for the role.

[Dunnstral]

I think that a second mason should step forward or Roden should die. I am willing to discuss this before leaping to action.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

This kind of feels like a lazy vote, because just by opening Dunn's ISO, it's clear he had already explained his reasoning a lot by this point. It's not really directly engaging with any of his points imo

I agree. I also did not like Bellaphant's reaction, and have noted that they still don't have reasoning for having scumread me before this point.

[Dunnstral]

hesitant to lim anyone in a claimed hood rn

Why? Being in a neighborhood does not make you less likely to be mafia. And there are a lot of people in neighborhoods.

easier to read as time goes on in my experience, plus its one way to just limit the collective pool since finding cohesion seems incredibly difficult right now.

im also still pretty lost why you wanted mason claims.

I feel like I had explained myself numerous times at this point, and that Taly wasn't looking into it at all.

[Dunnstral]

I think that a second mason should step forward or Roden should die. I am willing to discuss this before leaping to action.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

This kind of feels like a lazy vote, because just by opening Dunn's ISO, it's clear he had already explained his reasoning a lot by this point. It's not really directly engaging with any of his points imo

I agree. I also did not like Bellaphant's reaction, and have noted that they still don't have reasoning for having scumread me before this point.

Is this antispew

I don't think it is. I think CSF is revisiting the thread which was moving pretty fast for reactions and found something of concern.

[Dunnstral]

Is it a role that is confirmable or extremely useful and you would not recommend killing in any capacity D1 Dunn.

Confirmable: yes
Extremely useful: no
Would not recommend killing day 1: yes

[Dunnstral]

Yeah and I really don't like when people claim unnecessary info early on in the game. But that's a personal thing about how I think the game should be played. Mechanically I find it's rare that the game mod implements a way for the mafia team to take care of people who claim beyond killing them one at a time and using their 1 roleblocker or whatever equivalent role they have on them.

Rant aside, I'm currently interested in voting out Bellaphant or Malakittens. Taly gives me some concern but I also remember that I had reasons to lean town there.

[Dunnstral]

Narrowing down my willing to vote list. Yes there are still 12 names here, no it doesn't mean I'm actively looking to lim you yet. I have just removed the other half of the player list from my consideration one way or another, and haven't had those aha moments for any of these players yet. I'm on the verge of removing a few more names.

Spoiler: WtV List

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Frogsterking
The toad
Enchant
Bellaphant
Klick
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

First off this was just 3 days and 100 pages ago HOW

Making an update though.

Spoiler: WtV List

Malakittens
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
The toad
Enchant
Bellaphant
Klick
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

My vote is on Klick but recency bias from his posting has me reconsidering. If a name that you scumread is also on this list I am open for business.

I think that RCEnigma looks more town. The professor is not on this list, they were the Galron slot. Off the Hook has honestly looked worse for me over the past few days than the first few ones. I enjoy having Klick around and have them near the top of my null reads; I don't think I can justify moving them to a full on townread or scumread here.

I have no clue with MalcolmTucker. I think they've looked alright but also nothing that can't be faked. CSF and PenguinPower lean town. Enchant is content light but I liked some parts. Bellaphant has been trending downwards for a while. Malakittens is sort of indefensible, they don't just do nothing in games normally. I know you dislike meta so I'll boil it down to: They're not doing anything in this game, they're not making a good effort to get reads, and this is out of expectations.

[Dunnstral]

Confirmable: yes

This shit better confirm

UNVOTE:

I sure hope I don't get roleblocked

[Dunnstral]

Really? Mala didn't even respond to you

[Dunnstral]

I think I'm at the tipping point where I might remove the good professor though. Gonna have a think.

Remove me from what?

Their list of who they would eliminate. I think they mixed up replacements and are referring to the toad's slot.

[Dunnstral]

I guess mala didn't reach that point yet. Still, I feel like their contributions are very shallow.

[Dunnstral]

no, it is who RCEnigma replaced

[Dunnstral]

I guess mala didn't reach that point yet. Still, I feel like their contributions are very shallow.

Yo Pirate, what is your read on me?

You feel fairly likely to be town just based on your spontaneity. I'm not sure how invested I am in that.

no, it is who RCEnigma replaced

Why did they even mention me then?
You think they mixed up on who replaced who?

Yes, that is what I am saying

[Dunnstral]

Malakittens is sort of indefensible, they don't just do nothing in games normally. I know you dislike meta so I'll boil it down to: They're not doing anything in this game, they're not making a good effort to get reads, and this is out of expectations.

I agree that he she hasn't been doing anything, but I did not get that impression of her in Spring Fling, which is the only game I saw her play as scum

Do you feel like she is more likely to do nothing as scum then as town?

I don't have a strong opinion. I took a look and saw real stances early on in her completed town games, along with trying to get things moving. Spring fling was a game where mafia were put in a high pressure situation early, and even in that game she got called town simply for posting 4 times in a row and not being zero content. That's not an exaggeration, that was Bell's read on her.

[Dunnstral]

Taly -> Null
OTH -> Null
Roden -> Town
Mathblade -> Null
RCE -> Town
Dwlee -> Town
Bellaphant -> Mafia
JohnnyFarrar -> Null
T-bone -> Town
Best Bird -> Null

[Dunnstral]

I'm counting 14 mafia reads on BlueBloodedToffee, 10 null reads, and 1 town read. And the 1 person townreading them has way too many town reads for them to all be accurate

So is this outdated, or is there otherwise a compelling reason as to why we are not eliminating there?

[Dunnstral]

9 null reads, actually

[Dunnstral]

I can more easily see town Bellaphant and MalcolmTucker now. I'm trying not to be biased. I also think that BlueBloodedToffee's posting around the masons was their best bit of posting but was wondering if that is enough.

[Dunnstral]

Johnny felt genuine to me earlier when they were campaigning (my own words).

Hmm, this is a difficult game. It's hard to find mafia here.

[Dunnstral]

yall making me post while i take a shit at work...

<snip>
VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

This kind of feels like a lazy vote, because just by opening Dunn's ISO, it's clear he had already explained his reasoning a lot by this point. It's not really directly engaging with any of his points imo

@taly

This was entirely lost on me. When I entered the thread, all I read was

Klick

agreeing with a post where

Dunn

was pushing for a Mason claim, and the

Dunn

wagon was nonexistent so I felt it was a good prod. I didn't have the space to sort context. I figured my most effective way to get a reply was a vote. I was tired of voteparking on nothing anyway.

First, thanks for responding while at work :)

Second, I'm not actually sure this tracks? Like after your vote, Luke quoted a bunch of posts where he talked to Dunnstral about the merits of the other mason outing themself, and I think you saw it... but it still doesn't look like there was any follow up to the vote

Good on you for pointing this out. Yes it looks like Taly is arguing that they were trying to figure things out but I do not think their play backs this up.

[Dunnstral]

And I scum read voting the mason directly.

This happened before their claim.

[Dunnstral]

Mala, if you explained your vote on Taly, it might help idk. People (myself included hello) are just wagoning anyone who's not a strong townread at this point, because this day has gone on for over 200 pages and fatigue is hitting hard

Ngl it’s prob a really shitty reasoning but it has to do with toog

I didn’t like the replacement, dead stop.

I know toog isn’t a fan of being scum in large games

Mala, if you explained your vote on Taly, it might help idk. People (myself included hello) are just wagoning anyone who's not a strong townread at this point, because this day has gone on for over 200 pages and fatigue is hitting hard

Ngl it’s prob a really shitty reasoning but it has to do with toog

I didn’t like the replacement, dead stop.

I know toog isn’t a fan of being scum in large games

VOTE: Taly

I think this is not a shitty reason. Scum are more likely to replace out than town. I have quantitative evidence, a research paper published at stanford used this very website as a corpus and revealed in their dataset that replacements were 6% more likely to be scum.

That's just from their dataset overall. I bet in some situations (like maybe large games?) scum are even more likely to replace out.

What's worse is the way Toogle did it IMO and the fact you know Toogle doesn't like playing scum. Taly is voting me right now for no good reason and I know for a fact I am town. I say GET HER

You two are forgetting or don't care that Toogeloo replaced out mostly due to getting into a car accident. Blindly quoting statistics without considering the circumstances is not the way.

[Dunnstral]

They play on mafiauniverse or a similar site. I can't back that up but their play style seems reminiscent of that to me. I don't agree with what they are doing right now, and remain unconvinced that frogster is mafia.

[Dunnstral]

They play on mafiauniverse or a similar site. I can't back that up but their play style seems reminiscent of that to me. I don't agree with what they are doing right now, and remain unconvinced that frogster is mafia.

Dunnstral loves Frogster because Frogster is a fellow mason hunter

I'm not sure why you keep prodding at me with weird remarks.

[Dunnstral]

a confirmable role doesn't mean a town one. Dunn keeps supporting my posts that push Taly but not voting them >_< I'm just very confused by him.

I am picky

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Taly

[Dunnstral]

I’ll use my ability on you tonight Frog and you’ll die if you don’t move somewhere.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to accomplish

[Dunnstral]

Here's my sales pitch:

Tala's slot has already claimed their role - neighbor.

Mala looks like they're going to pull out a pr claim in 5448

Johnny IDK

[Dunnstral]

Not to be mean, but I'm pretty sold on not eliminating basically all of the other top options, so you're gonna have to help me out here. Johnny is not a compromise for me. Neither is Frog. Neither is Taly.

Rad?
Dunn?
CSF?

[Dunnstral]

because that was what happened and i didnt have the time to sort through the posts, so i figured pushing an action i disliked with a vote would warrant a prompt answer?

like, i dont know the expectation here. ive already put more into this game than i bargained for and there are big lapses of discussion that im not privy to.

I suppose it's possible you were short on time and wanted to talk to Dunn yourself, but it's like... if you had natural curiosity about why Dunn was doing something weird/scummy, I expected you to see if he's already explained why or at least read the posts when they were quoted for you i guess

I've quoted things in a catch up without looking to see if it is later addressed!

Yes, but in 4765 they say they are pretty lost still, do not show any indication taht they have attempted to see what happened, and continued to push for me with little reason