LOST (Game Over)

[Roden]

VOTE: Frogsterking

[Roden]

Spoiler: Scum Team

[Roden]

This is funny to me, because this is the least serious I have taken a game in a while.

Meh, I was being non-serious at the start of moderators as well.

But my point stands.

I was have purposefully tried to take this game less seriously, and this is the second time someone said that I was being extra serious early

Maybe your casual mode is comparatively try-hard for some people. And your try-hard mode is just like, Light from Death Note.

Currently catching up but so far I think you're town. I don't think scum complains when they get accused of putting in effort.

[Roden]

This is funny to me, because this is the least serious I have taken a game in a while.

Meh, I was being non-serious at the start of moderators as well.

But my point stands.

I was have purposefully tried to take this game less seriously, and this is the second time someone said that I was being extra serious early

Maybe your casual mode is comparatively try-hard for some people. And your try-hard mode is just like, Light from Death Note.

Currently catching up but so far I think you're town. I don't think scum complains when they get accused of putting in effort.

Can we please scum read each other?

Weird request, I kinda think you're town actually.

[Roden]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Reasoning:

-Second player to "not realize" that flavor does not relate to alignment in post 29, something which I find mafia might try to fake to look like a townie.
-In post 68 they gently warn the town against flavor claiming. I personally feel it is not a very big deal (as opposed to the constant stream of impulsively claiming roles we seem to be dealing with already especially) and this is an easy angle for mafia to take to look reasonable.
-They voted for Cephrir with no reasoning. They have continued to vote Cephrir and continued to not provide any reasons. They have not even commented on it in a quick check-up.

Dunn is town lol

[Roden]

This is funny to me, because this is the least serious I have taken a game in a while.

Meh, I was being non-serious at the start of moderators as well.

But my point stands.

I was have purposefully tried to take this game less seriously, and this is the second time someone said that I was being extra serious early

Maybe your casual mode is comparatively try-hard for some people. And your try-hard mode is just like, Light from Death Note.

Currently catching up but so far I think you're town. I don't think scum complains when they get accused of putting in effort.

Can we please scum read each other?

Weird request, I kinda think you're town actually.

Hey good timing, I just got done reading through Galron's ISO. I put him under the "unreadable" section. Where are you getting this town read from?

He has a bit of a flippant attitude this game which is usually +town for him since I don't think he can fake it as well when scum.

Also the last large theme we played we ended up scum reading each other for a good portion of the game even though we were both town. I think referencing that even though it was a while ago now is more likely to come from town than scum, since I don't think scum want to risk evoking a negative reaction. Especially since I'm impulsive and tend to tunnel.

[Roden]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

Where do I place in your reads?

[Roden]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

Where do I place in your reads?

I forgot you were even voting me.

I guess now I'd categorize your vote as a meme/late RVS vote.

I know nothing about you and I'm hoping you will say something townie so I can remove you from the PoE.

What makes you think it's a meme or RVS vote?

[Roden]

@Galron - Based on your experience with Roden, is "Can we please scum read each other?" something you think would be risky to say to Roden as scum!Galron? Do you believe this statement from Roden?

This is such a Day Vig-able post lol.

[Roden]

Is there a reason you're chill this game Roden?

Long story short, life changes affected the way I play games a couple months ago.

[Roden]

@Galron - Based on your experience with Roden, is "Can we please scum read each other?" something you think would be risky to say to Roden as scum!Galron? Do you believe this statement from Roden?

This is such a Day Vig-able post lol.

It's just a pointless question. I'm not any more townie if Galron says yes or any more scummy if Galron says no. I see that post and it just looks fake solvey.

[Roden]

@Galron - Based on your experience with Roden, is "Can we please scum read each other?" something you think would be risky to say to Roden as scum!Galron? Do you believe this statement from Roden?

This is such a Day Vig-able post lol.

It's just a pointless question. I'm not any more townie if Galron says yes or any more scummy if Galron says no. I see that post and it just looks fake solvey.

Oooh right my bad. I'm just supposed to take your read of the absolutely unreadable Galron at face value and not try to get Galron to give his response to your claim.

My bad ignore my question Galron I just believe Roden and I don't need to hear anything else about it.

A bit of an overreaction. If Galron wants to respond then he'll respond. But I gave multiple reasons for why I said he felt townie and you just asked about the least alignment indicative reason I gave.

[Roden]

Mine

[Roden]

A bit of an overreaction. If Galron wants to respond then he'll respond. But I gave multiple reasons for why I said he felt townie and you just asked about the least alignment indicative reason I gave.

Alright, I don't mean to overreact. My bad. But it was a bit frustrating. I don't believe it's a pointless question and getting some more content from Galron about a specific claim you made I feel could be useful. Sure it wasn't the only point you made, but it was one that Galron could respond to and I wanted him to specifically respond to it. I wasn't claiming your other reasons were invalid, but I felt like this one could warrant a response from Galron. And whatever that response was could be useful for all sorts of reasons.

Fair point.

I think I'm gonna have to make you a simmer read for now.

[Roden]

I feel like Dancing Puppets could potentially be scum on the basis of a lot of their recent posts. Feel like there's a lot of stuff about them not necessarily having particularly distinct reads/being willing to sheep despite the fact that they have been quite active anyway. For how much they've posted it feels like there's a real lack of content there.

Do you think scum just admits they're going to sheep at the beginning of the game?

Granted, I think both heads of the hydra are normally very headstrong about their reads. It's a bit weird to see them both want to take a back seat.

[Roden]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

Where do I place in your reads?

I forgot you were even voting me.

I guess now I'd categorize your vote as a meme/late RVS vote.

I know nothing about you and I'm hoping you will say something townie so I can remove you from the PoE.

What makes you think it's a meme or RVS vote?

The image in the spoiler tags, it's the first thing in your iso, and there isn't a description or explanation of what you saw or felt.

@Roden

What's the @ for? I can see your posts, I'm just not gonna respond right away when I'm trying to catch up between breaks at work.

Your reasons for thinking my vote wasn't real don't make much sense when you look at my vote within context. I made a joke but I would've just moved my vote by now if that's all it was. And it doesn't make any sense to think my vote was random when several people were scum reading you and you were one of the leading wagons.

If you don't know why I scum read you, you could just ask. But it doesn't seem like you care, it looks like you're just firing back against someone you think is likely to draw votes and appeasing other players who have more of a presence.

[Roden]

I think scum are just lurking out. I'm guessing it's hard to resist the temptation to do nothing in the main thread with a 5 scum - 21 town starting point.

PEdit

Hey I made it onto the pagetop board

actually if everyone would like to give a list of people they want eliminated in LIST format

Corwin
Roden
BlueBlood

I would be surprised if there isn't 1 scum in these three players.

Thank you ahead of time if you collect the names and post the list, I think that might help a lot with the D1 structure.

Can you go into further detail with this? This doesn't really add up with what you said earlier.

[Roden]

I don't think there is anything worth responding to as far as my wagon goes, Pooky thinks I'm copy pasting my posts, Johnny was a naked vote, Galron's push was wolfy, etc.

I think Pooky, Malcolm and Luke are the most likely to be genuinely wrong about my alignment.

Where do I place in your reads?

I forgot you were even voting me.

I guess now I'd categorize your vote as a meme/late RVS vote.

I know nothing about you and I'm hoping you will say something townie so I can remove you from the PoE.

What makes you think it's a meme or RVS vote?

The image in the spoiler tags, it's the first thing in your iso, and there isn't a description or explanation of what you saw or felt.

@Roden

What's the @ for? I can see your posts, I'm just not gonna respond right away when I'm trying to catch up between breaks at work.

Your reasons for thinking my vote wasn't real don't make much sense when you look at my vote within context. I made a joke but I would've just moved my vote by now if that's all it was. And it doesn't make any sense to think my vote was random when several people were scum reading you and you were one of the leading wagons.

If you don't know why I scum read you, you could just ask. But it doesn't seem like you care, it looks like you're just firing back against someone you think is likely to draw votes and appeasing other players who have more of a presence.

Roden, I'm sensing fear from you.

[Roden]

I think scum are just lurking out. I'm guessing it's hard to resist the temptation to do nothing in the main thread with a 5 scum - 21 town starting point.

PEdit

Hey I made it onto the pagetop board

actually if everyone would like to give a list of people they want eliminated in LIST format

Corwin
Roden
BlueBlood

I would be surprised if there isn't 1 scum in these three players.

Thank you ahead of time if you collect the names and post the list, I think that might help a lot with the D1 structure.

Can you go into further detail with this? This doesn't really add up with what you said earlier.

roden gib me readlist pls thx

So you don't care about my read and you don't want to explain your reads

[Roden]

Roden gimme readlist plox

I saw your requests, I've been reading the thread. I'll do it once I get off work and get home. Might smoke first too tbh, it's been a day.

[Roden]

Why do you only speak directly in response to Frogster?

That is referring to Roden

Recently? Because he's the only one engaging me atm, and it's difficult to initiate conversations with people while working and trying to catch up on 20 pages a day.

He hasn't been the only person I've talked to though.

[Roden]

So you don't care about my read and you don't want to explain your reads

Not really, no. I care about your reads on the player list as a whole and I'll answer specific questions you ask which I can understand.

Why?

[Roden]

I don't understand the town motivation for not wanting to know why your scum reads scum read you. Nor the town motivation for refusing to answer basic questions from someone who hasn't been all that active in the game.

[Roden]

So you don't care about my read and you don't want to explain your reads

Not really, no. I care about your reads on the player list as a whole and I'll answer specific questions you ask which I can understand.

Why?

Because whatever reasoning brought you to the conclusion that I'm scum is incorrect. I also can't explain anything to you unless I can understand what kind of information you're looking for. As long as I can understand what you're asking and you aren't asking too much I'm willing to try to answer.

Why are you scum reading me then if you think I'm just wrong??

[Roden]

So you don't care about my read and you don't want to explain your reads

Not really, no. I care about your reads on the player list as a whole and I'll answer specific questions you ask which I can understand.

Why?

Because whatever reasoning brought you to the conclusion that I'm scum is incorrect. I also can't explain anything to you unless I can understand what kind of information you're looking for. As long as I can understand what you're asking and you aren't asking too much I'm willing to try to answer.

Why are you scum reading me then if you think I'm just wrong??

I think you've done nothing before this point to indicate to me that you're town, and I previously scumread you based on process of elimination and activity level. My read going into this evening was that I can reason my way to 1/3 in this game, and I believed there to be 1 scum between you/BBT/Corwin.

I do think that the way you're arguing with me now is more like a Town who is just wrong. That's new information though, I didn't start to think that until shortly after I read 1419.

I have a hard time believing this because you didn't even know I was voting you and I had to ask what your read on me even was. FMPOV you just realized I existed and said "yeah that can be scum I guess", and if you'd just said that I'd at least think you're being honest. But scum reading me through PoE and activity 48 hours into Day 1 doesn't sound like a real take. I think you've had a lot of takes so far that just don't sound real, like scum without any gumption.

[Roden]

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

thanks for the giggle

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

this is a real case of the metas but the fact roden hasn't done anything scummy yet is scummy

You were literally scum who said this about town!me in the last large theme we did lol

But also it's in your scum meta to snipe at people like this until they get tilted while you encourage people who trust you into following their tunnels

[Roden]

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

I just don't think anyone can actually have a PoE 48 hours into a 26 player game. There's an argument to be made that it's too absurd to come from scum, sure, but I don't think it's a believable thought process.

PE: Ngl I don't hate a Ceph wagon.

[Roden]

I don't think Frog/Ceph is ever S/S. A red scum flip from Ceph heavily implies that he was trying to prod Frog into tunneling me with his earlier comment.

[Roden]

I saw the 1/3 and it didn't connect that Frog meant one third of the scum team, I thought he meant one out of the three was definitely scum.

And fair point that maybe it's just me that couldn't have a PoE atm. Though I don't think I could have a Day 1 PoE at any point tbh.

[Roden]

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

thanks for the giggle

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

this is a real case of the metas but the fact roden hasn't done anything scummy yet is scummy

You were literally scum who said this about town!me in the last large theme we did lol

But also it's in your scum meta to snipe at people like this until they get tilted while you encourage people who trust you into following their tunnels

uhhhh my recollection is that i spent that game tunnelling you because i thought your behavior was scummy and i could mislim you for it. are we talking about the same game

You went out of your way to provoke me and rally STD to attack me multiple times that game. I...don't know why you're pretending like that didn't happen.

[Roden]

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

thanks for the giggle

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

this is a real case of the metas but the fact roden hasn't done anything scummy yet is scummy

You were literally scum who said this about town!me in the last large theme we did lol

But also it's in your scum meta to snipe at people like this until they get tilted while you encourage people who trust you into following their tunnels

uhhhh my recollection is that i spent that game tunnelling you because i thought your behavior was scummy and i could mislim you for it. are we talking about the same game

You went out of your way to provoke me and rally STD to attack me multiple times that game. I...don't know why you're pretending like that didn't happen.

And you also did the exact same thing in SCP, we were both scum there and you even talked about it as a strat in the scum chat.

VOTE: Ceph

[Roden]

Gonna disengage for a bit

Next post will be the read list

[Roden]

Or after this page top

[Roden]

TOWN

PookyTheMagicalBear
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Galron
Corwinoid
Bell
Dunnstral
Lukewarm

NULL

BlueBloodedToffee
Malakittens
Taly/Toogeloo
MalcolmTucker
Enchant
Bellaphant
Klick
JohnnyFarrar
T-Bone
Cat Scratch Fever/humaneatingmonkey
PenguinPower

SCUM

Cephrir
The toad
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)

TBD

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Frogsterking
Rad
Dwlee99

To Be Determined can be considered Null for the chart if necessary. I just have them separated because I want to see their play over time rather than needing to see more AI content in general.

[Roden]

I feel like Dancing Puppets could potentially be scum on the basis of a lot of their recent posts. Feel like there's a lot of stuff about them not necessarily having particularly distinct reads/being willing to sheep despite the fact that they have been quite active anyway. For how much they've posted it feels like there's a real lack of content there.

Do you think scum just admits they're going to sheep at the beginning of the game?

Granted, I think both heads of the hydra are normally very headstrong about their reads. It's a bit weird to see them both want to take a back seat.

this is such a weird post, i cant tell what roden actually believes.
its like hes trying to discrrdit malcolms thoughts, but then he actually says something thats sorta in agreeance with them?

I don't think I said anything contradictory here. I can agree about a behavior being weird but still disagree that it's scummy.

[Roden]

BBT do you really think your wagon happened because of your naked votes or is that just a meme

[Roden]

BBT do you really think your wagon happened because of your naked votes or is that just a meme

It's just facts

I saw the other things you quoted but I don't think you're looking at the full context here, but it's possible you literally just missed it since you mentioned earlier how you only read the first and last twenty or so pages. You were on the outer fringe of suspicion for a few people for awhile at the point you got wagon'd. Pooky hard pushed you before and after the wagon happened, Frog was also pushing you at that point, and you were being questioned about your posts by multiple people leading up to the votes. Like yes your blank votes definitely played a part, but that is not the sole reason you got votes and then kept those votes.

I feel like you're trying to create a narrative here that you're only getting pushed for a single bad reason in order to discredit the push on you. When I see you say "I got voted for two blank votes," my immediate associated thought is that your wagon was sudden, but it wasn't actually sudden. There was a simmering pressure on your slot for awhile, and your blank vote on Frog made it bubble over and turn into a wagon.

[Roden]

I feel like Dancing Puppets could potentially be scum on the basis of a lot of their recent posts. Feel like there's a lot of stuff about them not necessarily having particularly distinct reads/being willing to sheep despite the fact that they have been quite active anyway. For how much they've posted it feels like there's a real lack of content there.

Do you think scum just admits they're going to sheep at the beginning of the game?

Granted, I think both heads of the hydra are normally very headstrong about their reads. It's a bit weird to see them both want to take a back seat.

this is such a weird post, i cant tell what roden actually believes.
its like hes trying to discrrdit malcolms thoughts, but then he actually says something thats sorta in agreeance with them?

If this is indeed the case. then this will be the first time Roden hasn’t read me correctly. I pretty much didn’t do jack early in DC either so anyone being suss on either of us for activity reasons can just get wrecked.

I don't have a read on you at all yet, and I didn't mention anything about activity.

I think I can read (at least) Nancy fairly consistently...in a game half the size of this one. But with this many players I think both heads are just getting drowned out. You two just aren't positioned in the game like you normally would be, and it's harder to get a read on where your heads are at in relation to everyone else when you aren't feasibly going to have the interactions and associations I tend to rely on to figure you out. And I don't think it's because of your decision to hang back a bit this game, the overall game activity is just so overwhelming that it's hard for more than a core few people to maintain a presence.

Tangentially related, finding out that Johnny apparently has 96 posts kinda stunned me. That's honestly way more than I would expect from him for a single Day phase, but he's still registered as "low activity" in my mind because his entire presence is basically him chewing on the end of a piece of straw and being funny every once in a while. His ISO is actually fine when skimming but he's easily getting overshadowed by the dozen bigger personalities at the forefront of the game.

[Roden]

I guess I understood the Poe more when they said about finding 1/3 scum. I am maybe interpreted it more like 'they aren't town right now so..'

I relied on klick for my ceph read but am kinda fine with it..

P-edit yes, agree.

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

I just don't think anyone can actually have a PoE 48 hours into a 26 player game. There's an argument to be made that it's too absurd to come from scum, sure, but I don't think it's a believable thought process.

Dude..look at my iso..I have 133 posts. I've been playing this game like full time for the last 48 hours.

I don't think YOU could have a PoE in the last 48 hours because you've not had the opportunity to make one.

I saw the 1/3 and it didn't connect that Frog meant one third of the scum team, I thought he meant one out of the three was definitely scum.

And fair point that maybe it's just me that couldn't have a PoE atm. Though I don't think I could have a Day 1 PoE at any point tbh.

I just felt that Bella's clarification helped a bit and that Frog made a good point here. Well that, and I don't think Frog and Ceph are S/S and Ceph is scummier overall.

[Roden]

I guess I understood the Poe more when they said about finding 1/3 scum. I am maybe interpreted it more like 'they aren't town right now so..'

I relied on klick for my ceph read but am kinda fine with it..

P-edit yes, agree.

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

I just don't think anyone can actually have a PoE 48 hours into a 26 player game. There's an argument to be made that it's too absurd to come from scum, sure, but I don't think it's a believable thought process.

Dude..look at my iso..I have 133 posts. I've been playing this game like full time for the last 48 hours.

I don't think YOU could have a PoE in the last 48 hours because you've not had the opportunity to make one.

I saw the 1/3 and it didn't connect that Frog meant one third of the scum team, I thought he meant one out of the three was definitely scum.

And fair point that maybe it's just me that couldn't have a PoE atm. Though I don't think I could have a Day 1 PoE at any point tbh.

I just felt that Bella's clarification helped a bit and that Frog made a good point here. Well that, and I don't think Frog and Ceph are S/S and Ceph is scummier overall.

@Toad

[Roden]

And again you should know I'm not the kind of player who can only lurk as scum and can't look town. What's up with that?

What do you mean? Have we played together before?

I don't really get what you mean by "my treatment of you" either, I just think your posts have been scummy. I don't really have any questions I want to ask you, and I'm not particularly interested in casing you, I preferred Frog and now Ceph over you and I can just get to you on a day I consider you a higher priority. It's the same reason I'm not going after C&G atm even though I scum read them and have a case set aside in my drafts. I don't want to juggle multiple cases on Day 1 when it's already overwhelming enough to keep up with everything else in the game.

I am interested in how you react to my scum read though, that's basically my way of sorting you in the meantime. Because as it is now, you didn't really have an opinion on me at all until you were asked to. I think you had me at Null for Pooky's read list request, which implies that my read on you didn't factor much into your own reads for the longest time.

[Roden]

Mine?

Damn

[Roden]

Yeah I'm not going to bother trying to keep up at this point, 70 pages is too much.

I can vaguely tell there's a wagon on me. I'm claiming Mason.

[Roden]

Idk the context of why I got wagon'd but it sure is fun getting voted D1 every game and then dying N1 anyway if I somehow survive

[Roden]

Why did the Ceph wagon die

[Roden]

Also Malcolm dropped to a scum read after his last response to my post was to basically accuse me of lying but then not push me

[Roden]

Oof yeah Malcolm's ISO is garbage, he's just going after slots that aren't here

[Roden]

Oh uh flavor claim is Rose, Mason buddy is Bernard

[Roden]

In the grand scheme it's not a big deal I don't know why we needed 40 pages to get to it.

I don't know either and it's kinda continuing the problem of why I claimed in the first place

I feel like I got run up for not being active even though we're going 20+ pages a day and it's getting more and more difficult to keep up and actually retain everything

And not even 12 hours go by after my claim yet we get 20 more pages and people arguing about Mason claims and screaming for my head

[Roden]

i've literally never seen a mafia get masons to claim on d1

I replaced into a game where me and my mason partner were wagoned.

My Mason games are cursed

First time my partner immediately got run up and I had to hard defend them

And now this game where scummy slots keep getting their wagons dissolved and I'm getting run up because people spammed the thread and got bored

Though I do think it's funny that people thought me and Dwlee were buddies, technically y'all weren't wrong

[Roden]

Mine

[Roden]

In the grand scheme it's not a big deal I don't know why we needed 40 pages to get to it.

I don't know either and it's kinda continuing the problem of why I claimed in the first place

I feel like I got run up for not being active even though we're going 20+ pages a day and it's getting more and more difficult to keep up and actually retain everything

And not even 12 hours go by after my claim yet we get 20 more pages and people arguing about Mason claims and screaming for my head

I mean you were a big part of the problem. You got to the point where you felt you had to claim...and then only claimed half way. If you had just claimed we would have all moved on.

I don't think it's my responsibility to tranq 24 other players who can't control themselves

You can also,

not

run up low activity slots who already said they had trouble keeping up, and then blame them when the post count accelerates and makes it even harder for them to keep up

[Roden]

Like sorry if my attitude here is shit but it's kinda not fun to waste my time reading 100+ pages, barely get to play, and get run up Day 1 and immediately NK'd just because town got bored

[Roden]

Dwlee claimed so I guess it's a 50/50 if a protective does exist

I doubt we have a protective but no scum Strongman in a 5v21 though so it likely doesn't matter

[Roden]

dont read 100 + pages then

just read however much u want and pick an elim lets goooooo

Why do you want Math gone?

[Roden]

I still think Ceph is scum but I like Luke's case on Dunn

I town read Dunn early on but I do think it's wild that he would think I'm lying about being a Mason solely because of my reads list

I also think he should have a decent enough grasp of my playstyle to know the difference between my fake claims and real claims since he's done so consistently before

[Roden]

Oi, somebody give me a rationale why we're hunting for or trying to kill a mason claim D1 that isn't completely insane?

Sure. I think that Roden is fake claiming. I also believe that due to the unique mechanics of this set up, there is no benefit to the remaining potential mason keeping quiet. They are already "burned" and would have to claim immediately following Roden's death, before anyone else dies.

VOTE: Dunn

[Roden]

What stops mafia from doing something scummy and then saying "I wouldn't do that as mafia though"

I don't think it's outside of anyone's scum range to play aggressively and appear to have no self-preservation

I don't think Dunn's reason for thinking my claim was fake comes from a town mindset either

[Roden]

Also mine

[Roden]

So Roden. Did you have a super special crumb that Dwlee could have referenced after you died, like multiple players have suggested; or was there nothing like that?

Because if there was nothing like that then your partner claiming here was absolutely necessary. I would not have personally believed Dwlee if they had claimed after you had died.

There was going to be one until y'all screamed for my head and demanded my buddy claim

Why do you assume I die though

[Roden]

What stops mafia from doing something scummy and then saying "I wouldn't do that as mafia though"

I don't think it's outside of anyone's scum range to play aggressively and appear to have no self-preservation

I don't think Dunn's reason for thinking my claim was fake comes from a town mindset either

Nothing prevents them. I just usually see scum back off when the pushed player claims mason so I don't expect the person pushing it to be a scum player.

I rarely see scum push to reveal partner as well and then also have such a complex thought about how the unique flip mechanics make it so that it's optimal to claim[I'm not sure that it is or not but I can see Dunnstral believing it is]

I would be extremely surprised to see Dunnstral flip scum but I would also be happy because killing bad people makes me happy.

I don't think his thought process here is complex. After giving it just couple minutes of thought and talking to you, I realized a Doc on me prevents me from dying unless scum use their Strongman, which is most often one-shot and would be a waste to use so early on a PR that is non-threatening in such a massive game. It's actually probably optimal to not claim the buddy so that scum is forced to shoot elsewhere or use their Strongman while town PRs protect me or put a Watcher on me. But by claiming, now scum can play 50/50 on who to shoot and town can't focus their PRs on one slot.

Idk I just don't think Dunn cared about optimizing the Mason thing. It's just an aggressive showy play without much substance. And it doesn't explain the rest of Luke's case on him.

[Roden]

The issue isn’t that he pushed to claim in retrospect, it was that they were scum reading them post claim without thinking through the downsides of claiming Mason D1 as scum.

I too am in the I dunno if dunnstral scum is this silly about a d1 claim.

You need to work on your comprehension here. I didn't say that Roden was scum, I said that he was lying about his claim and gave reasoning. I also gave reasoning for why I thought he was lying about his claim. I

also

gave reasoning for why it was beneficial for him to finish the claim even if he was telling the truth. And it was beneficial; Roden admits they never made that crumb.

???

Are you saying that you thought I was town lying about being Masons? Why push me to claim further then?

[Roden]

Discussion was:
Me: I want to be Rose instead of Bernard
Roden: okay
Roden: let's make a complicated crumb <plan here>
Me: wow cool crumb let's do it
Me: wow game move fast
Roden: true but you're townie you're fine
Me: oh you had to claim should I claim now
Roden: some kind of response
Me: okay I'll claim cause everyone says I have to even though I don't want to

Is it antitown to share that plan? To demonstrate you had it?

I suggested referencing the episode SOS in our 44th posts since it was the was the 44th episode. I ended up claiming on post 43 though lol.

[Roden]

It's Rose and Bernard's first spotlight episode. Before that they were mainly just background characters.

[Roden]

Had to go look up who Math replaced, uhhhh I town read Corwin oops

Did I do that thing again where I town read a bunch of scum because of early vibes

[Roden]

Maybe I'll just read Math's ISO

Nevermind he already has over 200 posts...

[Roden]

The issue isn’t that he pushed to claim in retrospect, it was that they were scum reading them post claim without thinking through the downsides of claiming Mason D1 as scum.

I too am in the I dunno if dunnstral scum is this silly about a d1 claim.

You need to work on your comprehension here. I didn't say that Roden was scum, I said that he was lying about his claim and gave reasoning. I also gave reasoning for why I thought he was lying about his claim. I

also

gave reasoning for why it was beneficial for him to finish the claim even if he was telling the truth. And it was beneficial; Roden admits they never made that crumb.

???

Are you saying that you thought I was town lying about being Masons? Why push me to claim further then?

No that's not exactly what I'm saying. I didn't push for you to claim because of a scumread, I pushed for you to claim because:

1) I believe the mechanics of the setup would punish us for staggering the claims
2) I believed it was possible that you were lying based on comparing how you treated other people. I still don't understand why you were not town reading your mason partner in your 1 post where you mention them. Do you not understand how that can cause problems further into the game?
3) I believe that once you had claimed mason, you had to have your partner claim either the same day or the day after. In both cases, mafia can kill both masons.

I'll end this by saying that I don't think masons are nearly as important as they are being made out to be, nor do I think that making the

second

person claim here is what is going to cause a mason to die. We probably have stronger roles in this game, and just knowing that you two are claiming mason narrows things down.

If you didn't think I'm scum then what is the pro-town reason for pushing a Mason claim and trying to out the other Mason?

And why would I town read my Mason partner? Dwlee and I had similar activity, it'd just look scummy or obvious that we knew each other's alignment if I town read them when we weren't interacting with each other or posting much. Do you not think that would stand out even a little bit?

[Roden]

Hey Roden do you got a read on me yet?

I town read Galron, and I don't think you've done anything particularly scummy, so you're likely town.

[Roden]

If you didn't think I'm scum then what is the pro-town reason for pushing a Mason claim and trying to out the other Mason?

You are misunderstanding; Bell claimed that I was moving goalposts, I went back and pointed out that I wasn't actually arguing that you had to be scum to make claiming correct here. Never did I say "Roden needs to claim, because I think he is scum".

You literally accused me of fake claiming and cased me

Wtf are you talking about

[Roden]

Did a skim, I don't think Math is scum

[Roden]

Let's kill Dunn

[Roden]

VOTE: Taly

[Roden]

VOTE: Cephrir

[Roden]

Why waste Rolecop on Masons

[Roden]

Why waste Rolecop on Masons

Because if your teammate gets shot without claim, you are fucked and WILL be elimmed.

Elim'd for what

[Roden]

telling frogster to rolecop the masons is essentially letting him use his invest on whoever he wants and then he can claim to have investigated the masons

The other mason (dwlee) already claimed

Just rolecop someone scummy - RCEnigma had a pretty good pool. Don't rolecop the masons

These two get it

[Roden]

How about targeting Jin?

[Roden]

Mine?

[Roden]

My reads are garbage omg

[Roden]

Wait

Vig shouldn't have shot either of them...

[Roden]

Had to go reread the OP since I thought maybe we could have a SK, but no it's confirmed to be 5v21

So either a Vig shot someone we were trying to test or scum have a double kill

[Roden]

2. There are 5 mafia and 21 town.
3. This game is bastard because it contains something bastard. It is relatively minor, don't expect tons of bastard mechanics.

This says nothing about 5 group scum...

This could be Multiball

[Roden]

Mine

[Roden]

Covid sucks.

Brain is fried.

Read nothing.

Multiball would be weird. Like it would match the all town vibe I was feeling earlier but like how would multiball but all mafia work?

I think let’s listen before conclusions

We had a ton of people running their mouth.

Let’s slow down and communicate.

It’s likely scum have at least one kill so let’s look at Dunn’s and Frog’s reads

I agree that Multiball would be weird, but a mafia double kill or a Vig shot there would be just as weird.

I'm not sure either were killed for reads, we had a plan to try to confirm Dunn and test Frog's utility as a Rolecop. I think it makes sense for scum to kill them, especially if scum lies within the consensus town reads so that they have an excuse to still be alive.

PE: Yeah that's what I'm getting at. Killing them makes sense from a scum perspective, but not from a Vig perspective.

[Roden]

If there is only one factional kill, I think Dunn is the who gets shot. Rolecop is a pain but doesn't catch guilties for the most part, so Frog likely isn't seen as big a threat as Dunn who never actually claimed anything besides being confirmable. For all anyone knows, "confirmable" could mean Cop.

Frog made it clear he was going to target whoever he wanted. If he hit a PGO, that could explain his death, but then we have no idea who it is.

[Roden]

Arrogant/anti-town Vig is possible but I don't want to assume that. Though at the same time, I'm not particularly upset about these kills? Three of my scum reads all flipped town in quick succession, so now I have to reassess everything immediately instead of trying to parse D2 with my scum reads still around. So I guess I wouldn't say this was a "bad" Vig shot (if it was one), the flips are actually pretty informative.

VOTE: BBT

I'll follow you on this for now, seems like a good start.

[Roden]

I'm gonna bet mathblade is town but I have the most flimsiest read so I'm not gonna save them

What is the flimsiest reason to think that he is town?

instinct

Same

[Roden]

C&G's post restriction sounds fake as fuck at this point

I just don't get why they'd make it up in the first place, and that's the only reason I don't want to hard push them atm

[Roden]

Are 276 of BBT's posts actually just page tops??

[Roden]

Ok no, that was just a joke, he's no where close to that

[Roden]

My gut says Math is town, but we might need to elim there anyway so that we can move on, over 100 pages have been devoted to discussing him and I don't really think we've gotten anywhere

Did he ever claim anything besides Neighbor?

[Roden]

I don't think I've ever had worse reads than the ones I've had this game

I've only been right about Bell so far

[Roden]

Did Bell ever claim a PR? Why is he dead?

[Roden]

Would scum!Johnny be in a good enough spot to try to save Math? With how much everyone wanted Math dead, I feel like that means he got bussed.

Then again, the Day went on for awhile even after Math replaced out and no one else replaced in. That does seem to imply that there was a legitimate attempt to save him.

[Roden]

Why would I give scum a reason to kill me so early into the game

We're reducing the PoE by two just by existing, that's huge

It's also pretty informative to know that scum think we're of so little danger that they'd rather kill else where

It also also heavily implies that scum are in my town reads, possibly even more than one

[Roden]

Also I think you're scum BBT

So like, how hard do you actually want me to push my reads here

[Roden]

Why couldn't scum!Math try to distance from you or bus you, especially if he had a feeling he was going down? It's not like he made an extensive case on you, he just repeated "BBT scum because VCA" over and over.

[Roden]

Voting a scum buddy at the beginning of the next Day phase when you're both getting widely scum read isn't a particularly unlikely strategy

[Roden]

We'll agree to disagree.

Have you looked at Corwin's interactions with me?

Also, Mala is prob town from Corwin's ISO. Taly, too.

Corwin had you at Null before he replaced out

T-bone's posting isn't making any sense for anyone paying attention.

Explain?

T-Bone tracks IMO, even if the conclusion is wrong.

What do you read BBT as and why?

Nullish. I can see him doing everything he's done so far as scum or town, and deciding to do it for scum, town, or metablocking reasons.

I think he's barking up the wrong tree here, but I can't put a finger on why I town read you other than "vibe" either.

[Roden]

Roden I said his interactions.

Not his read.

I read the interactions. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

[Roden]

OTH why say "I had something important to talk about but I'll just wait until tomorrow"

Scum could just kill you if Bella flips red and the real Doc protects Drapion

[Roden]

Enchant sounds like someone who got caught in pregame and had been antispewing ever since their first post.

That's NAI tbh

[Roden]

We have like six town clears right? We can just run down the list in the scum read chart if we really want to.

[Roden]

Like if we take out all the top scum reads and none flip red then we know scum were sitting in the town reads the whole time and we can analyze early scum elims and determine who bussed

[Roden]

Interesting that scum didn't want to kill Luke until he was conftown'd. They considered him a bigger threat than the Masons, but not enough that he was a bigger threat than Bell.

[Roden]

Math and Luke died

[Roden]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

Man I wish the town thought the same way about me in that game too

[Roden]

Johnny should live just for being funny lol

[Roden]

Kinda random but how hot of a take is it to say that Pooky shouldn't be alive right now

[Roden]

I just don't get why a claimed Cop lives over one of their checks when the scum roleblocker appears to be dead

I don't think they have any reason to believe Pooky only has two shots and wouldn't lie about secretly having more

[Roden]

Especially since Luke was already widely town read before the green check anyway

PE: True. Pooky does seem really townie overall. So why leave him alive?

[Roden]

Pooky, what was the most recently updated reads chart? Maybe Bell + Luke scum read someone you town read. That could possibly explain what's going on here.

[Roden]

I don't want to kill Pooky, these kills just seem a bit bizarre the more I think about them

[Roden]

Mine

[Roden]

this is the last one I have

Based on who's still alive

SCUM - ALL
BBT

SCUM - POOKY & LUKE
Drapion (z)

SCUM - POOKY
Johnny

SCUM - BELL
Taly (x)
Best Bird (x)

SCUM - LUKE
Mislim Bait (y)

TOWN - ALL
Malcolm
Roden
Butterchurn
T-Bone
CSF

TOWN - POOKY & LUKE
Butterflies
C&G

TOWN - BELL & LUKE
Mala
Off The Hook
Rad

TOWN - BELL
Drapion (z)

TOWN - POOKY
Taly (x)
RCE
Mislim Bait (y)
Best Bird (x)

[Roden]

this is the last one I have

Based on who's still alive

SCUM - ALL
BBT

SCUM - POOKY & LUKE
Drapion (z)

SCUM - POOKY
Johnny (w)

SCUM - BELL
Taly (x)
Best Bird (x)

SCUM - LUKE
Mislim Bait (y)

TOWN - ALL
Malcolm
Roden
Butterchurn
T-Bone
CSF

TOWN - POOKY & LUKE
Butterflies
C&G

TOWN - BELL & LUKE
Mala
Off The Hook
Rad

TOWN - BELL
Drapion (z)

TOWN - POOKY
Taly (x)
RCE
Mislim Bait (y)
Best Bird (x)

TOWN - LUKE
Pooky
Johnny (w)

Oof, forgot about Luke's town reads

[Roden]

The graph is mainly just to see what Bell and Luke did to get themselves killed first and why Pooky may have been spared for now. It's not completely up to date, but we can factor those changes in if anyone knows Bell and Luke's final reads.

Mislim Bait, Taly, and Best Bird have the most to gain from killing Bell and Luke first, I think. Do we have any reason to remove any of them from the PoE?

[Roden]

That's kind of worse for you though Rad

[Roden]

Lol - you can fuck

all

the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.

This is a massive overreaction. If something changed that made you seem townier then it'll come up as we discuss everything. If Luke or Bell's reads changed before they died, I asked for people to update it. Acting like I'm asking for a triple execution based on old reads is ridiculous, I'm just trying to start somewhere because the game state feels directionless and I think the NK choices were important.

Like, who else should be looked at right now? I've been trying to kill BBT for 5000 years and no one wants to commit to it. Rad is probably just town here. I don't want to vote Johnny today. I could be interested in RCE but I don't think anyone else is.

[Roden]

Rad have you read any other games of mine that wasn't 2095 or are you basing your entire read on me off of one game

[Roden]

@Roden RCE's playing so different than my scum game with him. What's giving you a scum read on him?

RCE replaced Toad, who I scum read. I don't feel confident in the read though so I'm not hard pushing there.

Rad have you read any other games of mine that wasn't 2095 or are you basing your entire read on me off of one game

Entirely just 2095, but I'm getting kinda excited that you seem to be waking up

Not to self meta since I don't like it, but that game isn't how I usually play. Some games I enter and I'm on point and die early for it. Other times I'm really off and never gain any momentum and just get dragged along for the ride.

2095 was a somewhat unique game because I was Cop and had to be proactive but not spot on with my reads so I don't die. But it was a newbie game so I died because it just doesn't work that way there.

My play here is because I'm a Mason in a game with a million players and my reads have been bad so I'm just staying low key and sheeping my town reads while occasionally giving content.

[Roden]

Lol - you can fuck

all

the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.

This is a massive overreaction. If something changed that made you seem townier then it'll come up as we discuss everything. If Luke or Bell's reads changed before they died, I asked for people to update it. Acting like I'm asking for a triple execution based on old reads is ridiculous, I'm just trying to start somewhere because the game state feels directionless and I think the NK choices were important.

Like, who else should be looked at right now? I've been trying to kill BBT for 5000 years and no one wants to commit to it. Rad is probably just town here. I don't want to vote Johnny today. I could be interested in RCE but I don't think anyone else is.

Perhaps read the game then. Stop asking other people to do your work and lazy ass rely on a d1 chart.

???

You just got mad because you didn't like my content, lmao what

Jesus - I was vla for almost all of D1 and it seems I’m capable of more understanding than Roden.

Literally what have you done today

[Roden]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

[Roden]

VOTE: Best Bird

[Roden]

If you think the reads chart is bad then maybe you can tell me what the updated reads are

[Roden]

Then you're caught for the wrong reasons I guess

[Roden]

Hey Roden - can you go back to being like the Roden who existed between posts 9803 and 11126? Plskthx.

You react REALLY badly to pressure as scum, holy shit

[Roden]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

Most games I’ve seen where people say this, the player > rand tends to be town and defensiveness is usually nai.

Being defensive over literally nothing and when an accusation hadn't even been made yet doesn't tend to come from town tbh. Town doesn't have a reason to feel guilty over having their name come up, nor do they have a reason to try to shut down conftowns from discussing the game. In fact the last time that happened to me, I was a D1 IC and scum acted the exact same way as Bird here when I pressured them.

[Roden]

Maybe I’ll track T-Bone or Pooky tonight.

Why?

[Roden]

Sorry I’m just in a foul mood

And this stupid bull shut if she must be scum because she’s playing differently when I am trying to change my meta because I’m sick of my scum and my town play being day and night so yes maybe I’m trying to make my town Meta similar to my scum meta because I’m just sick of being transparent scum

Mood

[Roden]

Just vote Best Bird, they got caught awhile ago

[Roden]

Who is then

[Roden]

Mala/Malcolm contains a wolf trust me, I haven’t been wrong.

The only way I’m wrong on this is if the masons/Pooky is a wolf.


It’s common process of elimination logic that I have acquired from 6 years of super advanced mafia experience.

Are you really that certain that you believe it's more likely that Masons and a Cop can't exist rather than you just being wrong?

[Roden]

What are the odds that more than one scum is getting run up right now? I feel like that might explain why today has been stalling.

VOTE: Mala

Gonna just do that for now unless one of my town reads convinces me to sheep them somewhere else.

[Roden]

sure you can - i did

find it interesting he joined me on your wagon though - must have realized he was emotional and not logical

No you're just bussing.

[Roden]

I keep going back and forth on whether or not to spill the tea on our neighborhood. Tbone thinks I'm partners with Drapion and I'm a little suspicious of him for a similar reason. If Drapion flips scum before I die somehow I have no doubt Tbone and I will be gunning for each other.

T-Bone got inno'd by a Cop

[Roden]

VOTE: bbt

VOTE: BBT

[Roden]

Can I interest you in Best Bird

[Roden]

If we flip three more townies in a row I'm pretty sure scum have zero places left to hide after that. There's still around 5 conftowns left in the game.

[Roden]

Shocking.

VOTE: Best Bird

[Roden]

I've been trying to kill Blue since the Jurassic period so I'm down, but uh, how are they outed

[Roden]

Why not Track the Doc

[Roden]

Flavor

Vote Count 3.3

11 Bellaphant (Enchant, Lukewarm, PookyTheMagicalBear, Best Bird, ProfessorDrapion, Cat Scratch Fever, MalcolmTucker, JohnnyFarrar, Mislim Bait, Off the Hook, T-Bone)

Not Voting (Malakittens, Cytosine and Guanine, Taly, butterchurn, Bellaphant, Roden, Dancing Puppets, BlueBloodedToffee, RCEnigma, Rad)

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-08-05 20:52:15)

Mod Notes

With 11 votes, Bellaphant has been eliminated.

Bellaphant was...

Spoiler:

mafia

day starts in (expired on 2022-07-28 19:52:19)

Yeah BBT isn't Doc lol, Bella fake claimed Doc and BBT didn't vote there

[Roden]

VOTE: BBT

[Roden]

Specifically 'the other woman' is Macho.

Yes, that's it.

They didn’t vote on Math either.

Roden did you listen to anything I’ve said about BBT? Be honest.

Yes? I just forgot.

[Roden]

I mean - I love pooky but that’s not 100% clearing. Just remember that for later game.

i'm so clear

No your not.
TMI is something wolves have.
All the town you named town died pretty fast as there is still 16 players alive.

Why does Pooky fake Cop checks on Luke, who he was already poised to hard push in the late game if he were still alive, and T-Bone, who was kinda scummy and not particularly influential at the time? He'd just be locking his team into being forced to kill conftowns instead of who they'd prefer to kill in the moment. PR hunting being put on hold for two nights also hurts pretty bad.

[Roden]

VOTE: Johnny

[Roden]

I still think we just auto win this if we run down the list of top scum reads.

For instance if we flip another townie today after both BBT and Best Bird have their wagons killed for the 6th day in a row, then maybe we should stop voting out people who are only peripherally scummy but not as great at defending themselves.

[Roden]

Good to see you, Roden. Make sure you don't keep missing that prod timer by too much.

I've done pretty well so far I think

[Roden]

Yeah then we definitely need to get C&G then.

Explain this, please.
Is this because of some NAI thing or is it because a Mason thinks that it's a good idea?
-Guanine

If you bus Best Bird or BBT tomorrow then maybe you can live

[Roden]

Yes I'm sure the scum team were specifically told that a Town Macho Doc exists and that they are keeping you alive anyway because it's a well known pro-scum strat to keep Town Macho Docs alive

[Roden]

CSF, why is Malcolm likely to be sent to do the kill?

Remaining scum aren't goons

Scum think I'd be on Johnny again

Also i don't think that's the right question to ask

Why is sending Malcolm to do a kill less likely than scum killing an obvious doc target?

Firstly, Drap wasn't an obvious Doc target. I have shown varying levels of disbelief in Drap being tracker and openly asked Butterflies for 3 people to protect, you keep acting like Drap being protected was a foregone conclusion. It wasn't.

Sending Malcolm to do a kill on the night that he was heavily suspected throughout the day and counter to a flipped town wagon seems reckless. Surely, somebody is better positioned to carry out the kill than Malcolm? Also, why do you assume that Malcolm is goon and other two scum have PRs? Why doesn't Malcolm have the PR and one of the two is a goon?

If you didn't protect Drapion you'd literally be scum claiming. If at any point Drapion dies, you're getting auto-yeeted. This is just obvious.

Scum shooting Drapion is the worst possible play when they're already very far behind on kills and it's obvious that a Town Doc will protect the Tracker who already caught scum and doesn't appear to be gated. So I doubt they actually shot there, Malcolm is the more logical choice. Especially if the rest of the scum team are trying to deep wolf, they can't risk getting caught now. Sacrificing scum!Malcolm here is just the better play.

[Roden]

Didn't think scum would ever actually kill BBT, but I think that just reinforces that Drapion is town, since BBT has been protecting them and the PoE has shrunk enough that the Tracker can easily hit scum now

Tracking Masons last night was...odd, especially when they know only two scum were left anyway. But they're still most likely town here.

[Roden]

BlueBloodedToffee has died.

BlueBloodedToffee was

Spoiler:

town

MalcolmTucker's role was:

Spoiler:

Michael



You are mafia. Your mafia PT is located here: XXXXXX

(Adrift) If Walt is eliminated by the vote, you will gain the ability to kill any player that voted for Walt immediately after, before night occurs.
(Special) You are in a neighborhood with Walt. Your neighborhood is located here: XXXXX

You win with the mafia, when they achieve parity with the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to yeet. Day 8 starts now and ends in (expired on 2022-09-09 12:00:00)

Can we assume Walt isn't town here since they should've claimed being in a hood with Malcolm?

[Roden]

BlueBloodedToffee has died.

BlueBloodedToffee was

Spoiler:

town

MalcolmTucker's role was:

Spoiler:

Michael



You are mafia. Your mafia PT is located here: XXXXXX

(Adrift) If Walt is eliminated by the vote, you will gain the ability to kill any player that voted for Walt immediately after, before night occurs.
(Special) You are in a neighborhood with Walt. Your neighborhood is located here: XXXXX

You win with the mafia, when they achieve parity with the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to yeet. Day 8 starts now and ends in (expired on 2022-09-09 12:00:00)

Can we assume Walt isn't town here since they should've claimed being in a hood with Malcolm?

Who tf is Walt? Are you even following the game? Luke was Malcolm’s neighbour, lmaooo

BlueBloodedToffee has died.

BlueBloodedToffee was

Spoiler:

town

MalcolmTucker's role was:

Spoiler:

Michael



You are mafia. Your mafia PT is located here: XXXXXX

(Adrift) If Walt is eliminated by the vote, you will gain the ability to kill any player that voted for Walt immediately after, before night occurs.
(Special) You are in a neighborhood with Walt. Your neighborhood is located here: XXXXX

You win with the mafia, when they achieve parity with the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to yeet. Day 8 starts now and ends in (expired on 2022-09-09 12:00:00)

Can we assume Walt isn't town here since they should've claimed being in a hood with Malcolm?

Um, weren’t they in a Neighbourhood with Luke?

I know Luke was in a hood with Malcolm, I don't think he ever claimed to be Walt though.

The main thing I'm focusing on is that scum had access to a Venge shot, which is very atypical. If Luke actually was Walt, then scum had access to a Venge shot through a townie (two mis-elims for the price of one) which is uh...well it has to be the bastard element mentioned in the set up, I think. Which if so then I think we just win since I think that would've been their strongest advantage.

What makes me think that Luke might not be Walt though is that Luke was the first conftown to die. It feels really off to kill the scum-sided Venge shot first instead of the other Cop check, the Cop, the Masons, the Tracker, or the Doc. I feel like scum had a chance to WIFOM town into voting off Luke if he was still alive far longer than he should've been. The only way I see it making sense here if he is Walt is if Luke was dangerously spot on with his reads and he needed to die ASAP.

Somewhat related, but if Luke is Walt then Pooky is conftown. Scum doesn't fake claim Cop and fake a green check on a scum-sided Venge shot.

[Roden]

I kinda want to town bin Bird then

OTH is the one who role revealed Malcolm, right? If so they're most likely town as well.

[Roden]

I know OTH dragged their feet on using their ability the previous night. I think there's reason to suspect them for that, especially if they had no choice but to use it today or die. But idk if scum would have that kind of ability, since it's explicitly pro-town due to the info being public.

I don't think I want to look there unless the rest of the PoE gets exhausted first.

[Roden]

I get the feeling scum were terrified of Luke

[Roden]

T-Bone also got Cop checked, but Luke was killed first.

Though as I look over the back end of Luke's ISO, it's possible they just killed him first to frame Rad, since he was hard pushing him Rad right before his death. The only other slot he'd shown major suspicion over was C&G, but he flip flopped there a bit.

[Roden]

Idk the current VC but I'm fine with following Butter's vote, I just don't want to accidentally hammer

[Roden]

I still think the 2-for1 Venge kill ability is most likely the bastard element. A Death Miller-izer feels a bit too bastard to just be considered "minor".

[Roden]

I claim Night 9 Tracker, I Tracked Drapion to Butter.

[Roden]

Real talk, I don't think Drapion is scum here. They fake claimed a result after C&G was already on their way out the door, it wasn't necessary. And I'm confident they just self-hammer to end the day ASAP and cut off info/discussions.

[Roden]

Wait wtf, you checked Pooky last night?? He got hard cleared several Days ago

[Roden]

If scum has a Ninja they have to be gated

Or they were a priority target for the JK while CSF was still alive and had no choice but to let Bella get Tracked

[Roden]

Real talk, I don't think Drapion is scum here. They fake claimed a result after C&G was already on their way out the door, it wasn't necessary. And I'm confident they just self-hammer to end the day ASAP and cut off info/discussions.

They claimed a track on Pooky but you tracked them to Butter, so how is he town?

It's a joke, sorry

I'm fake claiming a Track on a fake claiming Tracker

[Roden]

Real talk, I don't think Drapion is scum here. They fake claimed a result after C&G was already on their way out the door, it wasn't necessary. And I'm confident they just self-hammer to end the day ASAP and cut off info/discussions.

Dude no, I’m a liability I’m pretty sure if I don’t get executed today.
Yes I’m Town but I made it pretty clear on Butterflies.

Do you believe me?
How can I convince you that Johnny is Town and Butterflies is a Wolf?

Convincing me doesn't matter, I die tonight

[Roden]

Also lol hi Nora

[Roden]

Oh wait Butter gave final reads in the Mason chat, I'll post those real quick

[Roden]

Last relevant read was on OTH. The following quote pinged him, he described it as someone who didn't know how to fake a good reason to defend their partners. Also think the role claim is real but doesn't believe it's impossible for scum to have.

VOTE: johnny

malcolm doesn't seem like he would be scum, why would he keep posting after the wagon keeps coming back to him..? its clear hes just town trying to leave last reads.
if he's scum hes just leaving lots of info for us to find his partners from.
town is sooooo much more likely here.

rad is town too, hes too motivated to be scum IMO.

- -

okay i'll force the use of it tonight HOJHIDFS whenever i suggest using it gamma keeps saying no but ill slide it in so it isn't noticed GIEUORFJ

[Roden]

Let's assume the absolute worst happens today, we hammer Drap and they flip town. What happens tomorrow?

[Roden]

Wow

[Roden]

Gonna be reading over some stuff but I think we just kill Johnny today, Pooky's death kinda heavily incriminates him

But like, let's not rush the vote this time

[Roden]

were scum that comfortable with rodens reads..?

does roden even have reads? all i remember was him defending drap.

I've had scum reads but pretty much all of them already flipped or did something to turn my read around on them. For instance, I also was paranoid about Pooky, and thought maybe him and OTH made a big brain play by intentionally getting Luke killed and then revealing that Luke enabled the scum Venge kill to clear themselves of any suspicion. Because why would scum intentionally kill off a player that granted them a huge advantage and then reveal that advantage to everyone later?

But uh, then Pooky died before me...so that's kinda impossible now...

Though I do find it interesting that Pooky was killed so late into the game, and after my Mason partner too.

Gonna be reading over some stuff but I think we just kill Johnny today, Pooky's death kinda heavily incriminates him

But like, let's not rush the vote this time

does it? i really want johnny to be town honestly, to the point that its not even logical. but like i think any kill could be framed as "oh that incriminates johnny"
like has anyone here townread the dude for the past five days? litearlly anyone could die and you could find a post calling johnny scum
like could he be scum? yeah, but this isnt the reason.

For the most part, enough people have been town reading him and been against voting him out for the last five days. I didn't even have a good reason to want to keep him around, I just thought that he was fun to play with and liked his vibes.

The reason I think Pooky's death implicates scum!Johnny is because Pooky was a Cop who had a lot of good reasons to be town read by everyone, and most of the suspicion against him was paranoia that he was still alive really late into the game and that he was making pushes on mis-elims. But the moment he seems ready to take out Johnny next, he dies. You also have to take into account that he was probably the most influential player left in the game, so killing Pooky is the most logical choice for scum!Johnny.

And if Johnny is town...why doesn't scum just leave Pooky alive to lead another mis-elim on town!Johnny? Taking Pooky into ELO after that + all of the paranoia building in the background around him would've made him the ideal scapegoat.

[Roden]

I want the answer to be OtH and Best Bird. If that's not right I feel like we lost here

I mean, you could try voting/casing one of them.

Also where were you when I wanted to vote Bird for several weeks? Why exactly do you think these two are scum now?

[Roden]

Tbh I'd feel a lot better about today if we weren't forced to waste an elim on Drapion yesterday. Because if Johnny flips town then I think his PoE is correct, and we'd have a chance to get through it safely with an extra day to vote. Like I get what he was doing but it kinda cost us our safety net. :/

Also I feel for Johnny here because this final 7 also consists of my town reads and I feel like it's a genuine reaction to be like "idk what to do here" at this point of the game.

Regardless I think we still have to vote him, and if not him I'd only accept OTH as an alternative today.

[Roden]

Tbh Mislim makes some good points, and I've been having some doubts about OTH as this Day phase has gone on

I feel like both heads of the hydra aren't really showing any urgency or concern about possibly heading into ELO, even making a comment about how if they voted out today "then so be it." Like that feels like it's trying too hard to be appeasing and look apathetic. Their general vibe today feels very disengaged and detached, like as if they're settling for a Johnny elim rather than actually believing that he's scum.

Also, a bit of a meta read here but Marci tends to meme around a lot more as town. Even in Mini Normal 2276, she was town and slaying all game long even though she was getting scum read the entire game. She feels a lot more subdued this game though.

[Roden]

FTR I don't think Nancy is scum here, and I think I've fully turned around on Bird by this point. Mislim is also very likely town but I'm not 100% confident. I think it could just be Johnny + OTH and we're freaking out over nothing here, with Nora as a secondary choice since I trust Luke's read.

[Roden]

Let me reword that. Luke's reads hold weight to me, due to being flipped town and being generally pretty good at this game.

[Roden]

I'm not settling on town!Bird because they got annoyed with Nancy, I don't think I even implied that.

Also I don't think discrediting Luke is the way to go here? Scum didn't kill him early on for fun, they obviously saw him as a threat and have the biggest reason to not want him to influence the game even after his death.

[Roden]

FTR I don't think Nancy is scum here, and I think I've fully turned around on Bird by this point. Mislim is also very likely town but I'm not 100% confident. I think it could just be Johnny + OTH and we're freaking out over nothing here, with Nora as a secondary choice since I trust Luke's read.

I don’t know why you’re trusting in Luke’s reads since the only trs he’s been right about were I think DNA and Drap but he’s wrongly sr RAD, furtive and Pooky and wrongly tr Malcolm. If there’s a dead town who probably would had good reads, it was Frogs.

The same reasoning for why it makes 0 sense for me to ever kill Pooky likewise applies to Noraa. Neither of us were anywhere in his PoE.

I also think it’s extremely suboptimal to bus here if Johnny is indeed scum and I would think that if Johhny was aligned with OtH, OtH would have probably unvoted him by now.

It really doesn’t make sense for scum here to bus unless their buddy is actually unsavavable. Pooky taught me that in my tm game. He pointed out that why does scum!Norwee kill RAM to make things unnecessarily difficult for himself, when RAM’s strongest sr in that game was FL? That’s the same reasoning for why scum!Pooky killed Mastina > Cakez because Cakez in Pokemon Battles, because Cakez wrongly lockedtowned him for vigging his buddy (name escapes me) but point stands. It’s occams razor. Johnny’s being pretty damn townie since my unvote, so why would his hypothetical buddy try to make their wincon unnecessarily more difficult than it needs to be?

Plus, I hated both OtH’s and BB’s reaction to my Johnny unvote.

If only one of Johnny or OTH are scum, then Nora can still be scum despite not being in Pooky's PoE, because one of the scum members are still in the PoE.

And I don't think it's impossible for scum to cross vote here, if one of them flips their buddy then they'll gain town cred, that's just how it is. Johnny isn't a guaranteed elim today anymore and didn't even push out scum yet, so imagine how reluctant people would be to vote him tomorrow if he actually did vote out scum today. Who would OTH vote anyway if not Johnny? Mislim? Bird?? I don't think they have any way to move their vote without it looking awkward at this point.

[Roden]

If only one of Johnny or OTH are scum, then Nora can still be scum despite not being in Pooky's PoE

you're literally maneuvering a whole puzzle to fit me into a scum team. "lukewarm said noraa is scum and since pooky said oth/johnny, if only one is scum, noraa could still be scum!!"

its really annoying that you are like an ic here and not giving us any new content to work with. like do you not have reads outside of what luke and pooky have said? im sorry that's kind of mean but like, are you reading my posts and actually thinking about them? are you interacting with me and actively trying to read me? or are you just ready to die and want to hand things off? like i feel like i understand where you are coming from, but its frustrating to be on the receiving end. i feel like i am trying to solve this game and you're just throwing around some random thing luke said. it feels like you've done zero of the research yourself and are blind trusting luke.

luke has scumread me literally every single game he's been in with me. does that say shit about my alignment? why are you blind trusting dead town? just because they're town? like your argument has no content and is based off of "luke scumreads you and luke is town" like that argument does not hold up to any logic test. that is an invalid argument. if both premises can be true and the conclusion false, the argument is invalid. ok well thats the dry cut logic and doesn't always apply in mafia. but here, it certainly does.

I know you replaced in late and probably didn't see my posts, but I've given my reads and explanations/reasonings for them over the past few phases. My Bird read didn't randomly sprout up after they asked to die and it's silly to pretend like that's the only reason I would town read them.

And I'm not even saying you're my main scum read, I won't even be around to vote you if we flip town today since I don't see why scum would bring me to ELO. Like, it would be funny to bring a conftown I guess? But it isn't worth the meme. And I don't think anyone's taking my reads into account tomorrow when I die tonight, they're barely being taken seriously now.

As far as my read on you goes, it isn't based entirely on Luke's read on you either. I'm using his read to support my own, sure, but there's more to it than just that.

[Roden]

@Butterflies:

Who exactly do you want out at this point? It looks like you're backing off of OTH now, and I assume that means you'd want Bird out instead. Problem is that I'm not voting there and I don't know where you're gonna get the votes to make it happen. Even if you want Bird dead, who's their partner supposed to be at this point?

[Roden]

OTH isn't really playing or solving though, they're just arguing with you. I believe that Gamma wouldn't exploit your friendship, yes, but that doesn't mean he can't be scum who didn't think his actions were exploitative from his perspective.

[Roden]

And the things you're referencing for why OTH can't be paired with certain players don't feel like airtight reasons to me. Like it's just baseline scum distancing tactics where the players involved aren't even pushing for the other to actually be voted out. Scum won Control by playing pretty much exactly like that (among other things).

[Roden]

VOTE: Off The Hook

[Roden]

E-1

[Roden]

From what I understand, Gamma seemed to be saying that it makes sense for him to be paranoid of you at this point of the game and that it isn't impossible for you to replicate your town game as scum. But he feels like he can't actually make that kind of case because you'll get hyper defensive, and he can't know for certain if your response is genuine or if you're playing 4D chess.

This is also part of the reason I scum read him though. His comment that upset you wasn't meant to be an attack on you from his perspective, but it also implies that he knows that you're town. If he genuinely thought that your defensiveness could be fake/an attempt to replicate your town game, the thought process would not be "you always do this and I can't deal with it right now" but instead "I need to determine if it's real or just crocodile tears". In fact, all he did was try to defuse the situation and then backed off entirely.

[Roden]

I mean...I'd vote Johnny over Bird in that case.

[Roden]

how about a gladiate between bird and oth?

I'm currently voting OTH.

[Roden]

VOTE: Noraa

[Roden]

GG and thanks for modding STD and Peta

Had fun with this game, didn't really feel like I had a handle on it until the last few days though. I'm interested to see what powers scum had this game and what the official "bastard element" was.