LOST (Game Over)

[The toad]

Taxonomically, there isn't a difference between a toad and a frog. The distinction is colloquial; while a frog has smooth skin, a toad has warty skin.

VOTE: Frogsterking

[The toad]

I also never watched the show. Bell is town because we're mindmelding.

[The toad]

Oh I thought alignment didn't flip. Pleasantly surprised to be clear, I think this way is better.

[The toad]

guys gammas bullying me

Oh no! Don't worry I'll help kill Gamma for you!

VOTE: Off the Hook

[The toad]

Taxonomically, there isn't a difference between a toad and a frog. The distinction is colloquial; while a frog has smooth skin, a toad has warty skin.

VOTE: Frogsterking

You're telling me toads are just frogs

Kind of? Biologically, they're incredibly similar, but a line does exist between toads and frogs based on their skin, so to speak. And culturally they've been treated differently for a long time. So I think it makes the most sense to treat them as different animals.

[The toad]

I never watched Lost so all flavor is completely, ahem, lost on me. Happy to be town though!

Wolfy entrance.
VOTE: Rad

Lukewarm and Bell give early towny vibes.

[The toad]

I never watched Lost so all flavor is completely, ahem, lost on me. Happy to be town though!

Wolfy entrance.
VOTE: Rad

Lukewarm and Bell give early towny vibes.

How's that wolfy? *growls*

'happy to be town' feels off.

[The toad]

Thanks, I will

[The toad]

this feels like the first time ive gotten a town role pm in a large theme in ages

@The Toad - is this a more or less wolfy way of announcing you're town than what I did?

Less.

Is there a reason you asked me this? If you think I should be scumreading Pooky wouldn't it be more effective to wait and see how I would respond to him naturally without suggesting what I 'should' be doing?

[The toad]

this feels like the first time ive gotten a town role pm in a large theme in ages

@The Toad - is this a more or less wolfy way of announcing you're town than what I did?

Less.

Is there a reason you asked me this? If you think I should be scumreading Pooky wouldn't it be more effective to wait and see how I would respond to him naturally without suggesting what I 'should' be doing?

Why would I ask someone else? You claimed my entry was wolfy. I wanted to see your take on them claiming they were town in a different way. I don't think you should necessarily read them as scum. Where did I say that? That's an interesting conclusion you're drawing from a simple question.

It's pretty heavily implied by the context - the 'more or less wolfy' part in particular only makes sense if you expect me to find it wolfy to some degree. Not sure where you're going with this reply.

[The toad]

VOTE: Cephrir

Think Rad has confidence, seems more like newish town than scum imo. Happy to opportunistically hop on the flashwagon

[The toad]

I am NOT shifty toads are known for their honest reputation

[The toad]

Think Rad has confidence, seems more like newish town than scum imo.

Good read toad. I think you're too smart to be hyper paranoid town.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: The toad

I think this from Rad feels like a genuine progression, I start townreading him and he starts scumreading me, towny enough for this early in d1

[The toad]

You are being pretentious about this. Nobody else has placed great importance to your reads and there is no real reason for you to keep this information hidden.

I agree but taking his reads too seriously feels slightly town from the frog?

[The toad]

Lean scum on The toad. I think 156 is reading too deeply into my question. I could only come up with 2 good explanations as noted in 167, and I'm leaning towards the scum read.

I think the best explanation is that you worded your post awkwardly and asking if I find it more or less wolfy did in fact imply I should be scumreading pooky to some extent

[The toad]

VOTE: Cephrir

Think Rad has confidence, seems more like newish town than scum imo.

Happy to opportunistically hop on the flashwagon

Which posts gave you this feeling?

The read change is a bit surprising, since these posts gave me the impression that you didn't like Rad's posts:

Spoiler:

this feels like the first time ive gotten a town role pm in a large theme in ages

@The Toad - is this a more or less wolfy way of announcing you're town than what I did?

Less.

Is there a reason you asked me this? If you think I should be scumreading Pooky wouldn't it be more effective to wait and see how I would respond to him naturally without suggesting what I 'should' be doing?

this feels like the first time ive gotten a town role pm in a large theme in ages

@The Toad - is this a more or less wolfy way of announcing you're town than what I did?

Less.

Is there a reason you asked me this? If you think I should be scumreading Pooky wouldn't it be more effective to wait and see how I would respond to him naturally without suggesting what I 'should' be doing?

Why would I ask someone else? You claimed my entry was wolfy. I wanted to see your take on them claiming they were town in a different way. I don't think you should necessarily read them as scum. Where did I say that? That's an interesting conclusion you're drawing from a simple question.

It's pretty heavily implied by the context - the 'more or less wolfy' part in particular only makes sense if you expect me to find it wolfy to some degree.

Not sure where you're going with this reply.

VOTE: The toad

Saying stuff like 'if toad is town they must be hyper paranoid' is what I'm referring to.

Do you think changing an early game read is more likely to come from mafia?

VOTE: Cat scratch fever

[The toad]

I actually believe now that Luke v Rad is TvT, and I think Pooky being paranoid about me is more likely to come from Town

agree

[The toad]

Yes

[The toad]

Pretty sure at least one person had called Rad town before I voted

Regardless I'm asking why you scumread it not why you don't townread it

[The toad]

Pretty sure at least one person had called Rad town before I voted

Regardless I'm asking why you scumread it not why you don't townread it

The progression seems unnatural to me

And i feel like "confident" isn't a word I'd use to describe a post that begins with "i wonder"

I'm asking what seems unnatural about the progression

It feels confident in his towniness not in his read on me

[The toad]

why are you voting for CSF?

dislike the vote+no one scummier yet

[The toad]

You need to put some spice in that vote

I'll put in some red hot chilli sauce just for you

[The toad]

Cat I am going to send you to a cat jail where you will never be able to scratch anyone ever again

[The toad]

Spoiler: Scum Team

I wish, us amphibians would rock you fools

[The toad]

Did you just pull all lurkers in list.

That's a correlation != causation. It's players who aren't getting townread by myself or my townreads. I'm hoping a few of those players will say more and get ruled out.

Who values a townread from scum?

Think this post feels scummy

[The toad]

VOTE: Galron

Down

[The toad]

VOTE: Galron

Down

I'm guessing this is a reference to pooky's post

What do you think of frogster?

Frog is cool because I love frogs

Seriously though I think he's fine? Don't have many reads rn but like, feels genuine enough

[The toad]

He comes across as strange but not necessarily scummy strange? Like idk the svt thing just felt like nai awkwardness to me

To be fair I have never read ktane or any other game with Frogsterking so. Don't know the meta secrets there

[The toad]

I think I need to see a reads list or something from Toad.

Hi - there are 26 players and I'm not doing a reads list

You will get something from Toad though

[The toad]

VOTE: Galron

Down

Hey there bumpy friend

Hello Galron! Unfortunately I don't think I can have a logical debate with you about this read you just feel scummy to me, sorry

[The toad]

Marci feels genuine I think, I'm not sure about scum bbt yet but 724 from dunnstral feels towny too

[The toad]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Reasoning:

-Second player to "not realize" that flavor does not relate to alignment in post 29, something which I find mafia might try to fake to look like a townie.
-In post 68 they gently warn the town against flavor claiming. I personally feel it is not a very big deal (as opposed to the constant stream of impulsively claiming roles we seem to be dealing with already especially) and this is an easy angle for mafia to take to look reasonable.
-They voted for Cephrir with no reasoning. They have continued to vote Cephrir and continued to not provide any reasons. They have not even commented on it in a quick check-up.

I think these are bad reasons to read BBT as scum here.

VOTE: Dunn

I'm going to look at his ISO now and see if I should remove my vote and put it back on The toad.

Nevermind about Dunn. Slight town read. I feel like he's making real effort in the game. I think his vote on BBT was probably sincere as his reasoning resonates with the rest of his ISO.

I think his 483 feels way out of character though. I responded to this post earlier and wouldn't have thought it came from the guy with this ISO. It's very light hearted and his ISO reads as anything but light hearted.

I did especially like 248 where he picks 2 fights that he could just stay out of as scum.

I bet Dunn rubs people the wrong way with his straight forward bluntness. Does anyone know if this is his standard approach?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: The toad

These posts feel pretty nuanced to me, and likely to come from town

Agree and makes me like dunnstral too

[The toad]

I read through The toad again, cause I felt bad for just re-planting my vote on him. I remember every time I saw something new he said, I'd read it and just go... ehhhh yeah probably still a scum read. But you know, everyone deserves a good ISO read through.

I like The toad when he's giving frog facts. I do think I believe his reasoning as to why I'm "confident". I like CSF's push on him and dislike his counter vote on CSF.

I'll keep my vote on him for now but I certainly wouldn't call it a heavy scum read. If a serious wagon started on him I'd probably jump off based on his current ISO. But I have no stronger scum read ATM.

It's well known only town players post frog facts

[The toad]

I isod bbt because there's a wagon on him and I just feel super meh. Like I mean that iso could easily come from town but nothing there is difficult for scum to fake either

I should probably have more reads from all that posting but I feel like shit right now so might post more later

[The toad]

My scumgame quality, much like my towngame quality, is highly variable and dependent on my irl situation and how much effort I feel able to put into the game.

Feel free to believe me or not but this is a relatively fresh alt so no one else is going to have the knowledge required.

[The toad]

I'm trying to be more concise on this acc. Not sure how well I'm doing.

[The toad]

Does Toad have a pretty tight scum game?

Don't be an amphibious traitor.

Bell gets it

[The toad]

I still feel terrible but i can do the reads list I guess

Penguin power
Off the Hook
Frogsterking
Rad
Klick
Bell
Dunnstral
Lukewarm
Johnny

BlueBloodedToffee
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
Taly
PookyTheMagicalBear
Frogstarking
Roden
Corwinoid
Enchant
Dwlee99
Bellaphant
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
T-Bone
Cat Scratch Fever

Galron

Can't say I'm entirely caught up, though

[The toad]

Yeah it's that

I know I'm supposed to scumread Cat as well but tbh my vote on her was pretty much omgus because I didn't have anywhere to push or any scumreads and I wanted to press her vote, she's kind of fine

[The toad]

Yeah it's that

I know I'm supposed to scumread Cat as well but tbh my vote on her was pretty much omgus because I didn't have anywhere to push or any scumreads and I wanted to press her vote, she's kind of fine

Supposed to feels very self aware

shrug, I guess I am self aware? The thought just popped to me that my reads list didn't really mesh with the pressure vote from earlier so I said it, maybe I shouldn't have posted that anyway but my brain is foggy

[The toad]

Hi. I feel a bit better now, I'm reading through the later pages but I'm still not 100% caught up on some of the stuff I missed. But if anyone has any questions, I'll take a look and try to answer them.

On a vibes level, I like dwlee, I like bbt and bella less.

[The toad]

@Taly I mean, I'm right here.

What you want?

I understand the read, I really do. I haven't seen Rad mention me yet, what's his read on me?

Quickly losing desire to vote, I actually asked

Galron

knowing you were probably around to see if you'd communicate directly.

The initial thought was that you were holding reads to stall in time to make them, because almost all of your posts up until recently have given little impression of your perspective on the game.

And yet you've posted a bit frequently and the tone and diction feels similar to what I've seen commonly with scum.

But given the past page, I'm going to think more on this.

Following people's reads are difficult, I don't remember what

Rad

thinks of you hahaha, 26p is a bigger bite to chew than I thought.

Justify your lowest reads, please :3

This post feels off also

[The toad]

My problem voting The toad here is that 1129 and 1130 feel townie to me, and I wonder if he's just legit sick and hasn't been able to keep up yet. 1798 while short, feels sincere. I feel like he could be town who doesn't give a fuck if he's lim'd. I hope a town!Toad comes in and puts out enough townie vibes to survive, but I can't deny that he's also just a scum read of mine right now.

I would prefer giving him a couple days to recoup and redeem.

Actually I'll unvote and re-vote of this is a thing in the morning that I feel comfortable doing.

UNVOTE:

I mean, I promise I do legitimately feel sick! I wouldn't lie about that. And it's not like I'm somehow incapable of churning out content as scum - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go is an example without having to out my main. It's a lot harder to read through a 26 player game and actually sort people while also dealing with a less-than-clear mind. That's why I asked people if there was anything specific they wanted me to answer or look at but I don't think anyone responded? Idk.

[The toad]

Kinda like Corwin on a vibes level?

granted ill reeval if mala continues to do nothing but im way happier with her than other low content slots right now so i can certainly understand how frogsterking arrived at the same conclusion

I am... actually surprised how acceptable I find this.

This post seems towny in that it seems to show evaluation? It's not like impossible to come from scum but I think scum Corwin is more likely to keep pushing on Mala here

[The toad]

@Amphibious friend of the toad variety - I'd be most interested in your updated read on Galron, Roden, Johnny, and Taly. Also when you said you liked bbt and bella less earlier, was that a scumlean or just a less confident town read?

They were like slight scumleans to me. I will do this starting with Galron

Kinda like Corwin on a vibes level?

granted ill reeval if mala continues to do nothing but im way happier with her than other low content slots right now so i can certainly understand how frogsterking arrived at the same conclusion

I am... actually surprised how acceptable I find this.

This post seems towny in that it seems to show evaluation? It's not like impossible to come from scum but I think scum Corwin is more likely to keep pushing on Mala here

What about a Scum!Corwin trying to appeal to ceph?

Not impossible, but I'm not sure scum Corwin specifically wants to appeal to Cephrir here since I think he's been fairly scumread and not incredibly active? And like, I think it wouldn't be an instinctive way of pocketing someone, since generally just acknowledging someone's point is far from guaranteed to make them townread you?

[The toad]

Did you just pull all lurkers in list.

That's a correlation != causation. It's players who aren't getting townread by myself or my townreads. I'm hoping a few of those players will say more and get ruled out.

Who values a townread from scum?

This is a strawman, I'm valuing townreads from the players I read as town.

Forgive me, but a townread from you is not on my checklist for today.

Did you just pull all lurkers in list.

That's a correlation != causation. It's players who aren't getting townread by myself or my townreads. I'm hoping a few of those players will say more and get ruled out.

Who values a townread from scum?

This is a strawman, I'm valuing townreads from the players I read as town.

Forgive me, but a townread from you is not on my checklist for today.

Okay, what's your point though? You're the one who felt a need to bring it up.

Your poe is trash. You're probably scum. Why would I want a townread from scum?

These posts are why I disliked Galron originally. I don't think I felt able to put it into words at the time, but I guess what I was getting from it was like, overconfidence. Like his read on Frog felt theatrical, making three posts saying Frog is scum but not like, to justify it, just making it super clear that he has that read in various ways.

Heavy borrow from Rad

town:

CSF
OTH
Dunn
T-Bone
Rad

null:

Luke
Pooky
Frogster
Roden
Bella
Penguin
BBT
Corwin
Taly
DP
Johnny
Cephrir
Enchant
CaG
Mala
Malcolm
Klick
Dwlee

scum:

The toad
Bell

That looks alright I guess for top of my head

I generally don't mind someone being honest and having quite a few null-reads but I'm not sure why you'd post a reads list when you have this many other than to seem helpful to town because it's been asked. I don't necessarily disagree with the TR's but they feel very generic? As if Galron has just scouted out who has towncred and plopped for them to keep the heat off.

I copypasta'd rad's list and made few changes. Why no call out on rad?

I don't like this either. I mean, I don't have a problem with that many nulls in a game of this size, but this kind of feels gross, refusing to take any responsibility for criticism of his reads and deflecting it onto Rad.

I kind of like his bbt posts in that they do actually make sense but also I don't think that would be difficult for scum to fake so I still scumread Galron.

Onto Roden I guess

[The toad]

@Galron - Based on your experience with Roden, is "Can we please scum read each other?" something you think would be risky to say to Roden as scum!Galron? Do you believe this statement from Roden?

This is such a Day Vig-able post lol.

I like this for the same reason I townread Dwlee basically. Rad isn't an easy scumread since he's active and widely townread, although this was a long time ago I believe this was still true at this point? So asking this critical thinking and sorting which is +town.

His read on me is easy I guess but I could say that for like the entire playlist seeing as I'm pretty sure like 1 or 2 people have explained their scumread on me. Cytosine and Guanine seems like an easy SR too I don't think they've been active and have the whole post restriction deal going on. I probably need to review the goings on of the thread around the time Roden was posting but if he ditched the Frog scumread and switched to Ceph when Frog was getting townreads that's scummy? I don't really understand his Frog read and how it just seemed to disappear

Overall? Idk this man is an enigma

[The toad]

I mean frog encourages the Cephrir push and Bella pushes on him to townread frog so like

Yeah that's scummy I think

[The toad]

Amphibians get no respect this game

[The toad]

My first thought on Johnny is, holy shit this man has 100 posts in 4 days and people were calling him a lurker what the fuck
Only one to engage me on my frogposting so instant townread tbh.

I like his vibes in general. 1160 pings town. The thing about working with Taly feels towny, I guess it could be pocketing but not sure scum necessarily bother working with Taly when they could do it with someone people don't scumread?

Overall yeah I like this guy

[The toad]

I mean frog encourages the Cephrir push and Bella pushes on him to townread frog so like

Yeah that's scummy I think

Can you reword this?. I don't recognize this as true but also maybe I can't read.

It might be my fault, as I said brain not work good right now? I meant like, you were encouraging him to townread frog at the very least? Let me quote some stuff to show what I mean

Bbt on this page feels town although not sure I could articulate why

[The toad]

Maybe it's the confidence of the what the fuck Bella thing followed by apologising feeling genuine

[The toad]

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

thanks for the giggle

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

this is a real case of the metas but the fact roden hasn't done anything scummy yet is scummy

You were literally scum who said this about town!me in the last large theme we did lol

But also it's in your scum meta to snipe at people like this until they get tilted while you encourage people who trust you into following their tunnels

They are town for your SS, but 'town but I have reservations ' irl. That makes sense though, that's sort of what I picked up when I said about interaction

@roden, I think frog is a bit....pinball, but I do think they believe what they are saying.

VOTE: Cephrir

I've seen about enough, Rad makes a good point about BBT being a likely red herring. I think the solving was better when there was a healthy Ceph wagon rather than a healthy BBT wagon. Let's get this game state back on track for Town.

Thanks for the clarification Lukewarm. I also don't need to find your dad.

thanks for the giggle

i don't really take issue with dunn scumreading me at this time. i haven't left my scum range at all. still curious why he's talking like a robot.

this is a real case of the metas but the fact roden hasn't done anything scummy yet is scummy

You were literally scum who said this about town!me in the last large theme we did lol

But also it's in your scum meta to snipe at people like this until they get tilted while you encourage people who trust you into following their tunnels

uhhhh my recollection is that i spent that game tunnelling you because i thought your behavior was scummy and i could mislim you for it. are we talking about the same game

You went out of your way to provoke me and rally STD to attack me multiple times that game. I...don't know why you're pretending like that didn't happen.

And you also did the exact same thing in SCP, we were both scum there and you even talked about it as a strat in the scum chat.

VOTE: Ceph

Roden does post something Sus of Cephrir first to be fair

Frog then votes Cephrir, since Roden is Sus of Frog I don't expect him to take the bait here

You're encouraging frog town with your post, basically making it feel like there's not a market for a Frog push? I know you're only one person but I feel like in real time posts like that by a townie would have an outsized psychological impact, if that makes sense. I don't think this argument holds water if you're both scum.

Anyway Roden then starts pushing Cephrir more, votes Cephrir and then puts Frog as TBD instead of scum but I'm never clear on what changed on his actual read of Frog if that makes sense? Did I miss something

[The toad]

Eh, I think it's still like slightly +scum but I can see how town you might behave that way too.

@Bella, I mean yeah a market for a frog wagon clearly exists, I guess what I meant to say was something like, that would make it feel like momentum is better elsewhere? That a frog wagon would probably be doomed in the long term and will get stale. Idk maybe that's just the vibe I got reading through but I very much don't expect frog to be the Lim today.

@Roden, Another thing I'm surprised by is your treatment of me this game. I know I've been inactive and what I've shown hasn't been amazing, which explains why people put me at null or slightly below, but you've put me as hard scum the entire time and you don't appear to like, be asking me anything or sorting while I'm here? And again you should know I'm not the kind of player who can only lurk as scum and can't look town. What's up with that?

[The toad]

Shrug, I don't really follow you but as I've said many times I feel very off right now so maybe I'm just talking nonsense idk

[The toad]

And again you should know I'm not the kind of player who can only lurk as scum and can't look town. What's up with that?

What do you mean? Have we played together before?

I don't really get what you mean by "my treatment of you" either, I just think your posts have been scummy. I don't really have any questions I want to ask you, and I'm not particularly interested in casing you, I preferred Frog and now Ceph over you and I can just get to you on a day I consider you a higher priority. It's the same reason I'm not going after C&G atm even though I scum read them and have a case set aside in my drafts. I don't want to juggle multiple cases on Day 1 when it's already overwhelming enough to keep up with everything else in the game.

I am interested in how you react to my scum read though, that's basically my way of sorting you in the meantime. Because as it is now, you didn't really have an opinion on me at all until you were asked to. I think you had me at Null for Pooky's read list request, which implies that my read on you didn't factor much into your own reads for the longest time.

Lmao that'd explain it to be fair

Yeah you were in the only game I've completed on this account, schadd's open, which to be fair I was only there on the final day but I posted a lot and you and other people townread it

Idk I guess that's somewhat fair I was just hoping for some level of justification of the read by this point. It's true I didn't really have any read on you until I was asked to think about you, what can I say it's a 26 player game and I've been sick while like 70 pages have popped up

[The toad]

Bella I don't know what you thought I was saying in our discussion but the intention was not to shade you at all, I was trying to read roden

[The toad]

I thought the +scum thing was at me? If not, cool.

@ t bone , ignoring it is such a weird idea when the vc is right there. It wasn't relevant to the conversation.

Yeah the +scum thing was to Roden, I felt like town could do it but it'd be a very convenient thing if Roden was scum, if that makes sense

[The toad]

excuse me while i get out my chainsaw

Didn't you call me like uncomfortably self aware for basically the exact thing

[The toad]

Oh I think Cephrir is towny for that though to be clear, hypocrisy is probably a towntell for someone experienced like that