LOST (Game Over)

[butterflies]

Taly has returned. Day won't start until i get off work.

\o/

Welcome back! <3

[butterflies]

I really wish I was in a hood with Taly. <3

[butterflies]

Math and Luke died

And Enchant was arguably the most anti-town vt ever.

[butterflies]

Will you be able to talk to Dunn and Frog on day 3?

Potentially one of them. I only have one more shot.

There some reason you didn't find Mala's announcement weird or anything? They claimed they could talk to dead people and only really retracted it a lot later.

Ah Luke asked. Would rather you had used it both times first. Before saying anything it would have made you easier to read but oh well.

Could lead to Mala or Best Bird.
Best Bird theoretically could have killed last night because of the “don’t track same person twice rule” it’s not directly a rule more so as it’s not common and I don’t normally do it.

Mala I think looks worse though.

I think BB is town. Taly is still bleeding obvtown. My theory is that Bella was probably on Math n1 because of Dunn vig soft and she made the Bell kill because her role was probably no longer useful to scum. I no longer think strongman exists or Drap would be dead. It is interesting that scum was more afraid of Luke than trying to presumably go after whomever might be town doc protecting him.

Maybe it’s because Drap despite hitting it out of the freaking park with Bella is maybe going after the wrong slots? Scum apparently aren’t too worried about either medium or masons.

[butterflies]

Yeah except we aren’t limming mala or best bird today. Especially bird since he’s our potential link with Luke.

Why are you town?
Why can’t we vote you today?

I don’t think RCE is scum here. I either currently tr or tl all but 5 slots rn. I’ve pretty much cleared almost everyone off Enchant wagon.

[butterflies]

{Drap/Roden/butterchurn)

are off the lim table

and I townread

Rad/CSF/Pooky/Nancy/T-Bone

also I remember people doubting

C&G's

posting restriction validity and I thought that was a lot of fluff for no reason. Why?

I strongly mindmeld with most of this. Agree with everyone you have off the table and agree with most of the other trs.

I think DNA is town because Ircher sounds like town!Ircher as does RH9 and that paraphrase with Math in their hood reads like Math was unsuccessfully trying to get them to do his bidding by attempting to drive a miselim on us but had to back down to hold onto their DNA pocket. Plus Bella wanted to kill them > Math.

[butterflies]

Wasn’t going to mention Rad, but I don’t like that post at all.

Mason claims are town because I strongly read Dwlee as town and they’re a package deal. Also like Roden’s posting.

[butterflies]

Wasn’t going to mention Rad, but I don’t like that post at all.

Mason claims are town because I strongly read Dwlee as town and they’re a package deal. Also like Roden’s posting.

Roden's posting is terrible compared to his town 2095 newbie game. Dwlee was just absent. I do like butterchurn's posting though so I'm conflicted.

edit - yeah I just realized we have 2 butters now... uhhh... guess i'll spell them out for now

I have a pretty decent bop on Dwlee. I caught scum!Dwlee right out of the gate in Pokemon, so I’m trusting my read on the masons.

[butterflies]

If Butterfly’s replaced Puppets they are town.

It’s only a half replacement. Titus couldn’t keep up with the game due to rl issues, so I just switched hydras with Flea.

[butterflies]

Flavor

Vote Count 4.2

11 Enchant (Best Bird, BlueBloodedToffee, butterchurn, RCEnigma, Malakittens, Lukewarm, Cat Scratch Fever, T-Bone, JohnnyFarrar, Rad, Mislim Bait)

Not Voting (Cytosine and Guanine, Taly, Roden, Dancing Puppets, Enchant, ProfessorDrapion, MalcolmTucker, Off the Hook, PookyTheMagicalBear, )

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-08-09 19:35:15)

Mod Notes

@Drap, Everyone offwagon except for MT is either mason or hard tr. Onwagon. other mason, medium, T-Bone, CSF, RCE who are probably confident townleans as opposed to clears.

Everyone else isn’t a clear for me, so pretty shouldn’t have said just five.

[butterflies]

Wasn’t going to mention Rad, but I don’t like that post at all.

Mason claims are town because I strongly read Dwlee as town and they’re a package deal. Also like Roden’s posting.

That’s actually a fair point.
I’d agree Dwlee upon replace in looked real good.

Actually wait I think it was the player who replaced into Dwlee that looked good cause wasn’t it Dwlee that replaced out?
Idk I forgot all I remember I seeing someone replace into the other mason slot and really liked one of the posts they madeZ

You mean Butterchurn who replaced into Dwlee slot but I was tr Dwlee even before the mason claim.

[butterflies]

I’m not thrilled with RAD pushing Luke d4 or masons today. I want to consult with Flea before I vote though. Not sure how much faes read.

[butterflies]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

A bit like with the suspicion of Pooky and Luke yesterday that never went anywhere, feels like Rad is trying to shade widely townread players on the off-chance it'll work without ever really committing to it at all. I think it's fine to use meta but I think it's understandable that not everyone plays every game in the same way. I did scumread Roden early on but seeing little reason to doubt the mason claim at this stage.

+1

I don’t but with this many players, masons shouldn’t be a viable option for anyone anytime soon but then we had an anti-town vt suggest them but idk?

I strongly tr Dwlee who Butterchurn replaced. so would obviously hard vetoe mason claims.

[butterflies]

Am looking for my Dad

VOTE: Pooky

Father?

Lukey I have a short hiatus from site and I come back to discover FREAKING POSHUL staring at me? smh.


Anyways Hi, going to skim some bits and see what thoughts permeate my brain.

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

If one of rad/malcolm flip scum then the other is always town
same goes for oth/mala they're claims sort of conflict with each other

OtH is town regardless of what Mala is.

~Nancyfly

(We did this in Chromavalon so if I remember, I’ll try to keep doing this.)

[butterflies]

I'm also now wary of johnny and he knows why. I think he could be scum here : DD

This is coincidentally why I thought pooky scumread me

I Keep going back and forth on it, cuz I trust Nancy's meta reads, but I also think csf could be scum here

Meta reads I’m mindmelding with Pooky on and Bell was another.

[butterflies]

I’m going to say it’s unlikely they no killed.

Why in the world do you think that

Because there's 4000 people in this game

Oh woop

I read exactly the opposite lol

Tho in my defense you were being a lil captain obvious there

Hey Johhny, I’ve been wondering about this. If you misread my post then how was I also being Captain Obvious?

[butterflies]

I don't remember if that makes them town or scum but I remember a wooden conversation

Link/quote?

[butterflies]

Spoiler: living players

BlueBloodedToffee
butterflies
Malakittens
Taly
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook
ProfessorDrapion
Roden
Rad
RCEnigma
butterchurn
Mislim Bait
JohnnyFarrar
Cytosine and Guanine
T-Bone
Cat Scratch Fever
Best Bird

I haven't been paying attention in a minute but let's knock some people off this PoE right now

Spoiler:

BlueBloodedToffee
butterflies
Malakittens
Taly
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook
Rad
RCEnigma
Mislim Bait
Cytosine and Guanine
Cat Scratch Fever
Best Bird

Feel free to ask why, but most removals should be self evident

I was going to ask if this was your PoE or the people knocked off from it until I saw CSF was on the list. So please tell me why all of these completely random players are still in your PoE?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Lol

I believe in Johnny. Let's narrow that down some more buddy.

I applaud your confidence.

[butterflies]

I just don't get why a claimed Cop lives over one of their checks when the scum roleblocker appears to be dead

I don't think they have any reason to believe Pooky only has two shots and wouldn't lie about secretly having more

I think you’re asking the wrong questions: Why Luke? Why Bell?

[butterflies]

BlueBloodedToffee
butterflies
Malakittens
Taly
Off the Hook
Rad
RCEnigma
Mislim Bait
Cytosine and Guanine
Cat Scratch Fever
Best Bird

I trust Luke's read on Malcom so I'm taking him off for now.

I keep wanting to townread Taly, Nancy and Rad but I think it's just cuz I like em

Also Pooky's done his damage. He claimed 2 shot and both shots are spent. Luke was a bigger threat because he had a bigger voice

Why don’t you want to tr Taly, me and Rad? I like you too Johnny but I still would like to understand this better.

[butterflies]

Nancy you can't make fun of my bad posts AND ignore my questions

About CSF? I recently played a game with scum!them and most of their posts seemed very non-comtal, hedgey and surfacey.

Why aren’t you asking Pooky this question?

[butterflies]

Nancy you can't make fun of my bad posts AND ignore my questions

About CSF? I recently played a game with scum!them and most of their posts seemed very non-comtal, hedgey and surfacey.

Why aren’t you asking Pooky this question?

Cuz I'm asking you. Originally you said their scum play is wooden, and that's how they felt for the last two pages to me

Yes but there’s no reason for you not to ask Pooky that question since he had the same read. Why don’t you want to know his opinion?

I already asked you to give me specific examples because I looked through their ISO and didn’t get that impression.

[butterflies]

i mean she has kind of fallen off a bit

So do you currently have her as a null or a townlean then?

[butterflies]

@Johnny if you can find the specific CSF posts that concern you and why, I’ll re-evaluate.

[butterflies]

Nancy this feels wooden right here

Like I been on it

Which post(s)? Can you link/quote them? This is the third time I’ve asked you this.

[butterflies]

It's possible but

they did throw in a null-read there at one point.

I don't think it's beyond Bella to have townread a potential teammate.

Why does that rule out that she was buddying me?

This post? I do agree it doesn’t really make logical sense. If Bella was tr scum!CSF than it clearly would rule out a pocket obviously.

[butterflies]

nancy

if i became your +1 vote this dayphase, where would we vote?

I’m still going back and forth on that. Rn, I’m just trying to get to the bottom of this Johnny/CSF thing. I’m trusting Pooky’s reads and want to check some stuff out.

[butterflies]

Did anything happen in the PT to reaffirm the read?

It was better, but no. They just picked up a bit in posting.
If you believe in town slips (I don't), they forgot Roden claimed mason.
It'd be funny if Bella and Taly are both town that forgot or didn't see Roden claim.

I think Bella is wolf that didn't see it thus I was hoping no one would mention about her posts so she could respond to the one I gave to them so I can get a better read on them.
Taly is def town, either forgot about them being the mason or forgot about masons entirely.

This is stupid

There’s 5 scum
Surely scum would keep a log of who claims what

Math spewed Bella wolf and Taly town. How did I miss this?

[butterflies]

I still think Johnny is scum >_<

I concede BBT is probably town, i forgot BBT and Bella had a that weird conversation about game pace

Starting at this post and for basically that whole page. I don't know your definition of "wooden" but this ish is 100% tone deaf with a side of eneffectual pushing

Ebwop I guess that whole page and onto the next one is more accurate

CSF isn’t a player I have extremely confident meta reads on, like I do with OtH, Taly, Dwlee, Pooky and even RCE. I’m trying to re-ISO both Math and Bella.

[butterflies]

It's possible but

they did throw in a null-read there at one point.

I don't think it's beyond Bella to have townread a potential teammate.

Why does that rule out that she was buddying me?

This post? I do agree it doesn’t really make logical sense. If Bella was tr scum!CSF than it clearly would rule out a pocket obviously.

What doesn't make sense?

Bella can’t pocket you if you’re her buddy.

[butterflies]

i have experience with

gamma

and

marci

and im weary of that slot

so how are you meta-reading

OTH

as town,

nancy

?

Flea really hasn’t read anything but both me and Titus were hard tr that slot from the getgo.


I’ve given a lot of reasons but the most confident one is that Marci has an extremely distinctive alignment-based playstyle. Inviticus closely resembles HDP (scum) , where as her posting here closely resembles OMB (town).

[butterflies]

Bella can’t pocket you if you’re her buddy.

Malcolm was saying that Bella was not pocketing me because she wasn't townreading me early Day 1.

My point was simply that because Bella did not townread me in the beginning of Day 1 does not mean she was not pocketing me for the rest of the game.

That’s fair. I actually find most pockets tend to come from scum who initially pushes you than reverses it, as opposed to players tr you right out of the gate. That’s definitely been my experience anyway and it works really well too because it looks very similar to town re-evaluating their read on you.

[butterflies]

It'd be funny if Bella and Taly are both town that forgot or didn't see Roden claim.

also this is completely irrelevant but i wasnt... thinking clearly, when i forgot

roden's

alignment in

bell's

PT.

there were reasons i went VLA.

pedit

could you link

nancy

?

I already did that Taly. It’s probably in an early DP post.

[butterflies]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35197

I dare anyone to tell me this isn’t town!Marci.

I will check if I linked anything else.

@Taly

[butterflies]

Spoiler:

this is the last one I have

Based on who's still alive

SCUM - ALL
BBT

SCUM - POOKY & LUKE
Drapion (z)

SCUM - POOKY
Johnny

SCUM - BELL
Taly (x)
Best Bird (x)

SCUM - LUKE
Mislim Bait (y)

TOWN - ALL
Malcolm
Roden
Butterchurn
T-Bone
CSF

TOWN - POOKY & LUKE
Butterflies
C&G

TOWN - BELL & LUKE
Mala
Off The Hook
Rad

TOWN - BELL
Drapion (z)

TOWN - POOKY
Taly (x)
RCE
Mislim Bait (y)
Best Bird (x)

This graph is outdated for me.

[butterflies]

The graph is mainly just to see what Bell and Luke did to get themselves killed first and why Pooky may have been spared for now. It's not completely up to date, but we can factor those changes in if anyone knows Bell and Luke's final reads.

Mislim Bait, Taly, and Best Bird have the most to gain from killing Bell and Luke first, I think. Do we have any reason to remove any of them from the PoE?

I don’t know how much attention you’ve been paying to this game but a lot haz happened since then. Like Math spewed Taly town during gladiate by not gaf whether or not Ceph or them got whacked and BB hadn’t claimed anything yet. Not saying this isn’t useful but I’d probably use it to see what flipped scum’s reads were att.

[butterflies]

Lol - you can fuck

all

the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.

This is a massive overreaction. If something changed that made you seem townier then it'll come up as we discuss everything. If Luke or Bell's reads changed before they died, I asked for people to update it. Acting like I'm asking for a triple execution based on old reads is ridiculous, I'm just trying to start somewhere because the game state feels directionless and I think the NK choices were important.

Like, who else should be looked at right now? I've been trying to kill BBT for 5000 years and no one wants to commit to it. Rad is probably just town here. I don't want to vote Johnny today. I could be interested in RCE but I don't think anyone else is.

I think RCE is town.

[butterflies]

Lol - you can fuck

all

the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.

This is a massive overreaction. If something changed that made you seem townier then it'll come up as we discuss everything. If Luke or Bell's reads changed before they died, I asked for people to update it. Acting like I'm asking for a triple execution based on old reads is ridiculous, I'm just trying to start somewhere because the game state feels directionless and I think the NK choices were important.

Like, who else should be looked at right now? I've been trying to kill BBT for 5000 years and no one wants to commit to it. Rad is probably just town here. I don't want to vote Johnny today. I could be interested in RCE but I don't think anyone else is.

I think RCE is town.

[butterflies]

And why couldn’t the same apply for either of Mala or BB? Yes I recognize you stated those roles might be better to keep secret but I think I recall some instance of scum having a role like BB’s and using it to great effect. I think the scum utility of such a role might hinge somewhat on the reveal of it.

I don't entirely disagree and I agree BB is more likely scum than Mala here. But there is a usefulness in scum keeping this role hidden if they have it, if even to just save it for later and use the claim more strategically. BB just kinda came out with it

I’m starting to think Johnny’s town here.

[butterflies]

I think RCE is town.

Ooooh why. I have basically nothing for them in my head

Well Toad sounds completely differently here than in Schadd’s game for one and his posts in geberal I like. He reminds me quite a bit here of Squid game.

[butterflies]

Maybe I was wrong to townread C&G? I feel like I've seen RH9 be more engaged in Dead/Spectator PTs than this game.

What about Bella wanting to vote them > Math?

[butterflies]

I'm mostly done with Malcolm's ISO. I don't see anything to rule him out as scum based on the flips we have.

He didn't talk to or about Corwin. He townread Math - 3014, 3943 - but I can see that coming from either town or scum.

With Bella:

Hi Malcolm, we are awake together and i change my mind on your alignment literally half way through your posts sometimes. Can you throw a question or two my way?

Sure.

What's your read on Johnny?
What's your read on Dunn?
What's making you uncertain about my alignment?

Apologies if you've already clarified any of that.

Bella's response (linked in spoiler below):

Spoiler:

Johnny could very easily be scum . I don't see them making much a thread impact and the only thing that sticks out to me is that they seem to be around to get a few page tops but not massively enagge with anything else. Tbf I basically think the same about mala and I get the vibe that a fair few people are town reading her! Johnny is worse than mala for me because I can tell by his post count that he has content but my mind just slides off the slot.

I just spoke to cat about Dunn. I think Dunn is a player i will always have trouble reading. It worries me that some of my scum reads are based on 'tone', but I don't think it's a big an issue as I think : for example, I'm starting to town read t bone!

With you I read your posts and go 'yes, no, what? Yes...' in the same post. This happened a lot around your corwin stuff. It's odd to me because I find most players, especially the vocal ones in this game, are very straight to the point so it's easier to just follow and then say 'yes/no/that's scummy'.

@frog, I hard town read them in the very early game for meta, the thing I found towny has disappeared so would be down, yeah.

^ This is a hedge-y read on Malcolm from Bella (and she was quite hedge-y about Math!).

Neither party followed up on this conversation after that (I checked both ISOs - neither mentioned the other until at least day 2) - though if he were SvS with Bella, I'd be a bit surprised they didn't use this opportunity to get some SvS interactions in.

He's done a lot of Rad pushing, which I'm not really feeling. But if Johnny were scum, I'd also feel a good deal better about Malcolm. Idk that trio feels like a Gordian Knot to me

If hedgeyness is your criteria, then I think this spews Johnny town and it’s hard to tell with Mala but you could possibly be onto something with this.

[butterflies]

btw did Luke ever claim/soft his role?

Also if Mala has a result from last night, she should claim that.

Isn’t he neighbour with Malcolm?

[butterflies]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

Most games I’ve seen where people say this, the player > rand tends to be town and defensiveness is usually nai.

[butterflies]

BlueBloodedToffee - Obvtown

butterflies (Nancy Drew 39 and Flea The Magician)

Malakittens - Spewed town from Corwin

Taly - Spewed town from Math

PookyTheMagicalBear - Spewed town from Math

MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)

ProfessorDrapion - Tracker

Roden - Mason

Rad - Spewed town from Corwin

RCEnigma - Spewed town from Math

butterchurn - Mason

Mislim Bait

JohnnyFarrar - Spewed town from Bella

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9) - Likely town from Bella choosing to vote them over Math instead of me?

T-Bone - Semi-confirmed from Pooky

Cat Scratch Fever - Spewed town from Bella (?)

Best Bird

That leaves;

Butterflies
Malcolm
OtH
Mislim
Best Bird

I'm not convinced on CSF, C&G, Rad or Johnny but I think I'm happy to go with this pool right now.

Hello Sherlock. Math tried to kill me but let’s just conveniently ignore that fact.

[butterflies]

Here's the post-by-post paraphrase/summary of the neighborhood starting with MathBlade's entrance. (I already summarized/paraphrased the posts leading up to MathBlade's entrance in 9386.) I am putting it in spoilers because it's pretty long. If I am being vague, it's because 1) I want to stay pretty clear of the "not quite a copy-paste but dangerously close to being one" line and 2) the question or comment was very likely insignificant and would not be very relevant at this point.

Spoiler: Neighborhood Summary Pages 2-4

27: MathBlade asks what he should look at first as the thread is very large.
28: MathBlade clarifies that 27 is also meant to help sort us.
29: I mention our post restriction to MathBlade and that I cannot help him catch up much.
30: MathBlade asks if it is known that he and us can speak together in private.
31: Guanine responds that the existence of the PT is not public yet.
32: Guanine quotes 31 that he forgot to sign and signs this post.
33: MathBlade says he will crumb the neighborhood.
34: Guanine agrees that crumbing is a good idea.
35: Guanine quotes 34 that he forgot to sign and signs this post.
36: MathBlade posts his first crumb (post #2398).
37: MathBlade posts his second crumb (post #2496).
38: MathBlade posts his third crumb (post #2510).
39: MathBlade says people are avoiding talking about Bell.
40: MathBlade asks us a question and says he can help us save words by posting for us.
41: I respond to the question in 40.
42: Guanine follows up my response in 41.
43: MathBlade says he is looking at vote counts.
44: MathBlade asks who our signatures correspond to.
45: I post some notes I had on the thread. I also respond to MathBlade's question in 44 explaining my view on the matter and letting Guanine decide.
46: MathBlade asks me if he can paraphrase my 45.
47: MathBlade posts his fourth crumb (post #2713).
48: MathBlade says that he posted my 45.
49: MathBlade wants the neighborhood to be public.

50: Guanine, responding to MathBlade's question in 44, says that he has already slipped who is who.
51: Guanine suggests MathBlade just claim his flavor Sun.
52: MathBlade double-checks whether we are okay with him claiming his flavor.
53: MathBlade makes an edit to his post in 52.
54: MathBlade makes another comment relating to 52.
55: MathBlade says he will go ahead and flavor claim.
56: Guanine asks a question to MathBlade.
57: MathBlade asks for Guanine to clarify the context for the question in 56.
58: MathBlade says he has not seen scum Lukewarm before and is hesitant to start a wagon there if Lukewarm is town.
59: Guanine responds and says that he liked Lukewarm's early game.
60: MathBlade asks if we need anything or can give him a reads list.
61: Guanine says he is moving Bell up to null and Dancing Puppets to town. He also mentions that Klick and Frog are still null as well.
62: Guanine says he still has reservations about Bell.
63: MathBlade asks us to clarify what can be shared.
64: MathBlade wonders if it is possible that everyone except Bell is town.
65: Guanine responds that everything from him is shareable.
66: Guanine responds to MathBlade's 64 with the fact that Taly confirmed Bell as Boone.
67: MathBlade responds to Guanine's 66 that it is either a fake claim, or MathBlade's theory is off.
68: MathBlade is frustrated with the game.
69: MathBlade asks us what reads we want to share.
70: I respond to MathBlade's 64 with it being unlikely given how Save the Dragons advertised the game.
71: MathBlade says that he got a bit upset.
72: MathBlade asks us what a long number means.
73: MathBlade agains says he would like for us to give him something to post.
74: I respond to 72 by explaining how Pooky wanted reads Day 1.

75: MathBlade says the scum are the active players. He specifically calls out Dancing Puppets.
76: MathBlade asks us to further explain our Dancing Puppets town read.
77: Guanine responds to 76 with an elaboration.
78: Guanine reiterates that MathBlade can share anything Guanine posts.
79: Guanine says he is at page 172 in the the thread.
80: MathBlade once again asks us to further explain our town read of Dancing Puppets.
81: MathBlade complains that reading the game is hard due to to how quickly the game is progressing.
82: MathBlade explains why he unvoted and asks us to give some scum reads.
83: Guanine talks a bit about Dancing Puppet's 4367.
84: MathBlade says that he is still not convinced by our arguments that Dancing Puppets is town.
85: Guanine states that Roden's claim has removed Roden from Guanine's scum reads.
86: Guanine gives in a bit to MathBlade's 84.
87: MathBlade asks us to give a quick blurb for every player we town read.
88: MathBlade says that he would like to town read Dancing Puppets, but he needs a good reason to do so.
89: Guanine asks MathBlade to clarify 87.
90: MathBlade believes there are scum in the people voting Roden.
91: Guanine posts our list of town reads and reasons why.
92: Guanine makes some corrections to 91.
93: Guanine clarifies that the list reflects most his opinion rather than our collective opinion.
94: MathBlade is somewhat satisfied by what Guanine has given him to work with.
95: Guanine suggests Klick as the potential scum in the Roden voters.
96: MathBlade is okay with wagoning Klick but is worried about how that may be perceived.
97: Guanine suggests the best strategy for wagoning Klick is to combine forces with Bell.
98: MathBlade says that he voted Klick.
99: MathBlade says he is not town reading Bell.

I'll post the other half of the neigbhorhood chat and our thoughts on associations and anti-associations tomorrow.
~Cytosine

VOTE: Enchant
For good measure.

I'm onboard with having Rad limmed next.

I didn't get around to summarizing the rest of the neighborhood, but Guanine and I had agreed that Enchant was scum given Math had put Enchant as "??? null" in Math's read just as Math did for Bella. Rad was also a solid null for MathBlade and never really mentioned; we believe Math's null reads had most of the scum.

Dancing Puppets is probably clear based on what I posted yesterday; looking iver that interaction, it doesn't seem the thing scum Math would do to his partner.
~Cytosine

[butterflies]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

Most games I’ve seen where people say this, the player > rand tends to be town and defensiveness is usually nai.

Being defensive over literally nothing and when an accusation hadn't even been made yet doesn't tend to come from town tbh. Town doesn't have a reason to feel guilty over having their name come up, nor do they have a reason to try to shut down conftowns from discussing the game. In fact the last time that happened to me, I was a D1 IC and scum acted the exact same way as Bird here when I pressured them.

Well what about Airplanes then? Wasn’t that the main reason I almost got run up in that? From what I recall, BB’s scumgame tends to be based off of him pretty much doing nothing but coasting and posting tons of gifs.

[butterflies]

I understand I have to wait for a fair few people to die before I start pushing Butterflies so I just have to be patient with that one.

You shouldn't trust other people's reads either; especially when they're scum

Remember, they had Math at '80% town' and 'hard TR' Bella, too.

You also thought Bella was town and was pushing other slots than Math, so don’t understand this thought process at all.

[butterflies]

I was talking in relation to trusting other people's reads, but sure.

I said Math could be scum and voted them multiple times. Sure, I didn't end up on the elim wagon but at least my read was right.

Your slot has been wrong on two confirmed scum so far. Not even just slightly wrong either, like go to bat for them wrong. So, yeah, not comparable.

I voted Math on. d1 and I don’t see how wanting to wait for a replacement makes me scum. Maybe not if you’re scum here.

[butterflies]

OK, and I was staying busy scum hunting while waiting for a replacement, too. So, doesn't that negate your previous post?

Your slot said Math was 80% town and that was at start of D2 I believe.

If you want to go 1v1 with me, I seriously hope you’re town doing it and that’s all I’m going to say about that for now. I find your push on my slot +scum because of the obvious hypocrisy wrt your reasoning.

[butterflies]

Why are you so worried about my read?

It’s mine because I was starting to lean possible town on you and now I’m once again questioning that. You were never a clear for me but I’m not tr your push on me.

[butterflies]

I understand I have to wait for a fair few people to die before I start pushing Butterflies so I just have to be patient with that one.

You shouldn't trust other people's reads either; especially when they're scum

Remember, they had Math at '80% town' and 'hard TR' Bella, too.

This post in particular reads really scummy to me.

[butterflies]

I understand I have to wait for a fair few people to die before I start pushing Butterflies so I just have to be patient with that one.

You shouldn't trust other people's reads either; especially when they're scum

Remember, they had Math at '80% town' and 'hard TR' Bella, too.

This post in particular reads really scummy to me.

VOTE: BBT

[butterflies]

You don't see how I could possibly think you're scum in this game? I mean, there is no reason to elim you from my PoE and on top of that you heavily town read both flipped scum.

Like, how do you not understand where this read could come from?

PEdit - Why is it scummy?

Because you never hardpushed Math, you kept looking for other wagons and also defended Bella, so I struggle to see how your push on me is a real town thought coming from you.

[butterflies]

I understand I have to wait for a fair few people to die before I start pushing Butterflies so I just have to be patient with that one.

You shouldn't trust other people's reads either; especially when they're scum

Remember, they had Math at '80% town' and 'hard TR' Bella, too.

This post in particular reads really scummy to me.

VOTE: BBT

This post is scum indicative because you’re already trying to set up my miselim in advance. If you were town here, you be wanting to re-evaluate after those other flips and say something like that but no, you’re already locked on me as scum before you even see those flips. I don’t see how town ever thinks like this.

[butterflies]

I didn't hard push Math, no. In fact, I probably haven't hard pushed anyone and I have stated why my play has been the way it has multiple times already.

The only times I looked for other wagons was when Math was being replaced. What is the point in an idle vote/push when gaining no more information?

I did defend Bella, yeah. I have explained that, too.

I mean - that's the point. There are similarities in that you both defended scum and didn't vote for the wagons on flipped scum yet you are scum reading butterflies for it while saying "oh I have explained it" for you.

+1

Yeah exactly. Had BBT just left it as I’m going to keep butterflies in my PoE until I see those other flips, that would be fine but to say he’s waiting to push me but needs a few flips first - without seeing what those flips even are, is just gross.

And that’s on top of the illogical thought progression based on his hypocritical read.

[butterflies]

DP running me up to counter the Math wagon is a great point though. Well done, me!

I love how you just ignored everything I and BB just said.

[butterflies]

How is BBT town? He said he wants push me for a) doing pretty much the same thing as me wrt Bella, b) trying - LIKE BELLA to push DNA > Math but most scummy of all -

showing 0 interests in other flips to re-evaluate

. Also d) ignores DNA’s paraphrase that Math tried to run me up.

You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.

[butterflies]

@Butterflies - No, I'm not.

I specifically said I understand I need to wait a few in-game days before I can push you. Silly.

Exactly, what you did NOT say is jack wrt how other flips would affect that.

[butterflies]

How is BBT town? He said he wants push me for a) doing pretty much the same thing as me wrt Bella, b) trying - LIKE BELLA to push DNA > Math but most scummy of all -

showing 0 interests in other flips to re-evaluate

. Also d) ignores DNA’s paraphrase that Math tried to run me up.

You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.

If BBT is scum here I'm not sure why they're pushing you at the moment given you're unlikely to be eliminated and the push itself doesn't seem to be helping their standing with the rest of the town. I don't think the logic is great but it's completely viable for contradictory logic to come from tunnelled town sometimes.

Based off the reasoning coming from a slot that never hardpushed Math and mindmelded with me on Bella, I don’t understand how anyone has this read?

Why can’t BBT just be scum doing this? He’s setting me up BEFORE he even sees other flips.

[butterflies]

Exactly, what you did NOT say is jack wrt how other flips would affect that.

I know. I mean, I guess if you absolutely nailed scum and were the main driver of a flipped scum wagon then I would have to reconsider.

Given your track record though, I don't see that happening

Town ALWAYS reconsiders.

[butterflies]

You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.

I think this is a bit early. Who knows how BBT handles future flips?

What BBT is saying is he has a scum read on you and he knows no one else is interested because most of us have a strong meta town read on you. And I think that's accurate. As the game goes on meta becomes outweighed by actions and if he still has a scum read on you later, you'll be easier to push. I think it's a reasonable thing to mention as town!BBT. I don't see why scum!BBT wouldn't have just kept it to himself and pushed you later.

Are we not reading the same posts? Point me to where he has given even the slightest indication of re-evaluating my slot?

[butterflies]

Exactly, what you did NOT say is jack wrt how other flips would affect that.

I know. I mean, I guess if you absolutely nailed scum and were the main driver of a flipped scum wagon then I would have to reconsider.

Given your track record though, I don't see that happening

@RAD, where am I assuming anything?

He isn’t and hasn’t said he would re-evaluate. He is using the very same shitty reasoning that also arguably applies to him and doubling down on it.

[butterflies]

I think he just has a strong scum read on you and doubts you'll do anything to change his mind.

If you do something in the future that should have clearly changed his mind, and he doesn't change it and pushes you anyway, then you can point it out then.

If you think he's scum NOW, alright, that's your call. I do not.

The re-evaluate point is also just kinda weird here. I think both scum and town HAVE to re-evaluate throughout the game and tbh, scum is probably more likely to re-evaluate more often so they're pushing the best mislim at any point, which changes over time. The idea that scum!BBT is just going to openly not re-evaluate you for the rest of the game would just get him flipped eventually. If that's scum!BBT's plan here, to just lazily wait to push you until later with no re-evaluation whatsoever, great, we'll see it happen later in the game.

I don’t see what’s “weird” about it at all? He’s essentially using the same reasoning that also applies to him, that’s why I don’t tr him for it.

He also ignored DNA paraphrase showing Math was trying to get me run up. And the reason I didn’t didn’t sr him for that was both because he didn’t make it that obvious in the main thread and b) because he has wrongly sr me numerous times as town but that obviously will never work for him again.

[butterflies]

Because the info is extremely outdated and was made without any concrete gamestate knowledge.

You don't think there's any chance reads earlier in the game could potentially influence how scum chooses their kills at night?

I would think it could possibly be useful wrt what Math/Corwin and Bella’s reads but that’s probably it.

[butterflies]

I'm genuinely struggling to keep up and read stuff up. ya'll move fast.

Someone give me the TLDR on Rad, Malcom and Johnny plz

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

True neutral, the actual most evil alignment

I'm also going to disagree - its the most fun alignment.

How else can you be a chaotic air genasi that sits on ceilings and refuses to sleep in a tent/room/anything and was found in their own bag of holding after being fed coffee.

[butterflies]

True neutral, the actual most evil alignment

I'm also going to disagree - its the most fun alignment.

How else can you be a chaotic air genasi that sits on ceilings and refuses to sleep in a tent/room/anything and was found in their own bag of holding after being fed coffee.

be chaotic neutral?

Nah, I genuinely redefined the mean of the chaotic alignment my turning it from its intended meaning of ew law and turned it to I do what I want, when I want, and the laws are both with me and against me.

Never did anything that would have me arrested or in trouble... except some creative use of a Fighter, a Bandit and levitate

-F

[butterflies]

Also lets face it the 3x3 grid cannot hold the entirity of a character. My most recent, Copper the Copper Dragonborn Druid is Lawful Neutral.

You meet him and you'd swear they're chaotic as all hell. They're a giant puppy with ADHD who can turn into a bigger puppy or stars

-F

[butterflies]

Also lets face it the 3x3 grid cannot hold the entirity of a character.

fully agree with this and tend not to use it tbh

I have used alignment for some puzzles/barriers

Reflecting Pool
Lawful - Calm
Chaotic - Rough seas
Good - clear
Evil - muddy/clouded

To see whats inside:
LG - DC0
LN/NG - DC10
LE/TN/CG - DC 15/20 depending on size of item
NE/CN - DC 20/25
LE - DC40, the water is blackened and can cause nausea and dizziness as you appraoch it because it looks incredibly rough.

[butterflies]

Let's be real, Rad is under pressure and flailing. I just haven't decided what that says about his alignment yet. It does strike me as completely different from how he has played the game up to this point.

See this is information I can start to work with.

-F

[butterflies]

Kinda wanna deconstruct that post but I'm not familiar enough with Rad to be able to do that level of pokng... bah.

[butterflies]

I was just about to comment on that, but no I did not.

I think I’m just going to go with my gut and say rad!town.

My first impression was town, your associations are not great with math or with Bella. I had some doubts on day 2 I remember, I can’t recall specific posts but I do remember thinking yeah Rad could just be scum here. Latter half of day 2 it picked back up. The pivot to shield Bella is weird and is hard to get over so I’m not finding it scummy to scumread Rad.

It’s sort of in the same boat as, I should be scumreading Nancy’s slot for convincing me Bella could be town but Nancy is just town so.

You should only trust my reads when it comes to slots I would actually veto. That means I 100% know what I’m talking about. I still would absolutely veto OtH, Taly, Drap the most, then followed by masons, DNA, you, maybe Pooky, BN, T-Bone. Think Johnny is town from antiBella associatives and CSF looks to be solvey.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Again, Marci has a distinctive alignment based posting style: See Invitivus and HDP, scum and OMB + this game, town. I realized that when someone mentioned Invitivus and I realized that it looked identical to HDP. wherz here her posting is identical to OMB. Marci’s posting is like night and say, totally dependent on alignment.

[butterflies]

I was just about to comment on that, but no I did not.

I think I’m just going to go with my gut and say rad!town.

My first impression was town, your associations are not great with math or with Bella. I had some doubts on day 2 I remember, I can’t recall specific posts but I do remember thinking yeah Rad could just be scum here. Latter half of day 2 it picked back up. The pivot to shield Bella is weird and is hard to get over so I’m not finding it scummy to scumread Rad.

It’s sort of in the same boat as, I should be scumreading Nancy’s slot for convincing me Bella could be town but Nancy is just town so.

You should only trust my reads when it comes to slots I would actually veto. That means I 100% know what I’m talking about. I still would absolutely veto OtH, Taly, Drap the most, then followed by masons, DNA, you, maybe Pooky, BN, T-Bone. Think Johnny is town from antiBella associatives and CSF looks to be solvey.

~Nancyfly

BB

[butterflies]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35197

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35197

Marci!scum

I already linked a post with OMB under my DP slot, so you all can decide for yourselves.

[butterflies]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35197

I dare anyone to tell me this isn’t town!Marci.

I will check if I linked anything else.

@Taly

Here.

[butterflies]

I was just about to comment on that, but no I did not.

I think I’m just going to go with my gut and say rad!town.

My first impression was town, your associations are not great with math or with Bella. I had some doubts on day 2 I remember, I can’t recall specific posts but I do remember thinking yeah Rad could just be scum here. Latter half of day 2 it picked back up. The pivot to shield Bella is weird and is hard to get over so I’m not finding it scummy to scumread Rad.

It’s sort of in the same boat as, I should be scumreading Nancy’s slot for convincing me Bella could be town but Nancy is just town so.

You should only trust my reads when it comes to slots I would actually veto. That means I 100% know what I’m talking about. I still would absolutely veto OtH, Taly, Drap the most, then followed by masons, DNA, you, maybe Pooky, BN, T-Bone. Think Johnny is town from antiBella associatives and CSF looks to be solvey.

~Nancyfly

So this is Nancy's scum pool:

Rad
BBT
Pooky (maybe)
Mislim Bait
Malcolm
Mala

Let's hit Malcolm Nancy

Pooky’s not in my scumpool, so I don’t understand how you got that from my post? and I’m not currently worried about MB.

[butterflies]

I was just about to comment on that, but no I did not.

I think I’m just going to go with my gut and say rad!town.

My first impression was town, your associations are not great with math or with Bella. I had some doubts on day 2 I remember, I can’t recall specific posts but I do remember thinking yeah Rad could just be scum here. Latter half of day 2 it picked back up. The pivot to shield Bella is weird and is hard to get over so I’m not finding it scummy to scumread Rad.

It’s sort of in the same boat as, I should be scumreading Nancy’s slot for convincing me Bella could be town but Nancy is just town so.

You should only trust my reads when it comes to slots I would actually veto. That means I 100% know what I’m talking about. I still would absolutely veto OtH, Taly, Drap the most, then followed by masons, DNA, you, maybe Pooky, BN, T-Bone. Think Johnny is town from antiBella associatives and CSF looks to be solvey.

~Nancyfly

So this is Nancy's scum pool:

Rad
BBT
Pooky (maybe)
Mislim Bait
Malcolm
Mala

Let's hit Malcolm Nancy

Pooky’s not in my scumpool, so I don’t understand how you got that from my post? and I’m not currently worried about MB.

maybe Pooky

...

I always have some slight paranoia on his slot because of Bell nk but a lot of what he’s posted has townpinged me, so currently strongly lean town on him.

[butterflies]

quoted wrong post:

maybe Pooky

Maybe VETO Pooky, not maybe vote him.

[butterflies]

Is anyone down for a Hook CFD?

Well it’s not a CFD but it’s a wagon switch.

No, absolutely not, I hard veto that. Did you even check out my links?

[butterflies]

quoted wrong post:

maybe Pooky

Maybe VETO Pooky, not maybe vote him.

So who from the scum pool I listed besides Pooky are you willing to vote here? I'm guessing just BBT? Anyone else?

Rad
BBT

Pooky (maybe)

Mislim Bait
Malcolm
Mala

I probably don’t want to vote MB today.

I could do Malcolm but I don’t trust BBT. Also I’m still unsure about Mala, you, so if I can be convinced on BBT!town. I’ll take another look.
Problem is I don’t trust BBT.

[butterflies]

Is anyone down for a Hook CFD?

Well it’s not a CFD but it’s a wagon switch.

No, absolutely not, I hard veto that. Did you even check out my links?

What about Best Bird whom I tracked to no one Night 3.

His claim is town medium, right? And he has claimed to speak to no one but Ceph. So I don’t understand why this is damning?

[butterflies]

and if he's town he no visited n3...

if he’s town he can’t visit period.

No shit. You’re still wrong.

Not really.
You chose a dead player to talk to at night.
That’s your ability you claim is it not?

He has claimed not to have visited anyone so far but Ceph and they already have a pt, therefore you would not get a result of him visiting anyone.

[butterflies]

and if he's town he no visited n3...

if he’s town he can’t visit period.

No shit. You’re still wrong.

Not really.
You chose a dead player to talk to at night.
That’s your ability you claim is it not?

He has claimed not to have visited anyone so far but Ceph and they already have a pt, therefore you would not get a result of him visiting anyone.

@Drap, you won’t get any results on BB visiting ANYONE because he already has a pt with Ceph.

[butterflies]

Actually, this makes Pooky’s novice cop shot also more believable.

@Mala are you ungated coroner?

[butterflies]

Actually, this makes Pooky’s novice cop shot also more believable.

Why?

Because both BB and Pooky have claimed a two shot.

[butterflies]

Actually, this makes Pooky’s novice cop shot also more believable.

Why?

Because both BB and Pooky have claimed a two shot.

What does that have to do with anything? Why can't one of them be a 2 shot and the other be something else or nothing? Why can't town!BB be a 2 shot and scum!Pooky also claim a 2 shot? Why can't scum!BB fake claim 2 shot and town!Pooky actually be a 2 shot?

Actually nm, my theory doesn’t gel with Drap’s role.

[butterflies]

I really think DNA (c & g) are town. Also Bella tried to push them > Math.

[butterflies]

@Marci.

Because there was a kill save that happened today, I can imagine a scenario down the line where scum fake claim the doc that saved who ever was killed today. Being able to check a dead townie that we did not learn their role before they died, feels like a useful thing to keep on hand to discourage them from trying that.

This feels more useful then checking Dunn currently.

If there is a better choice that comes up, then sure. We can look into it.

Idk what Mala’s is but considering that OtH are literally doing what Luke said, they should do why was she pushing them? Could she just be sloppy town who’s not actually reading the game? Idk

But the fact remains, keeping OtH alive without them using their role unnecessarily is protown.

[butterflies]

Tbh C&G is prob town.

Math was probably a modified pr with a neighbor such as a RB’r or something like that.

I lowkey need to see how this wagon went down and I know marh was on the block d1

I wish cephrir went with his gut bc that would have helped miles

However I like this read on DNA. I don’t see why any of the claimed slots would bother to claim if scum. Luke iirc said there was only one vt in this playerlist and that was claimed by Enchant - Charlotte so for now, rather not touch any pr claims without a good reason.

[butterflies]

Nancy can be dangerous. And she tends to read me really well which is rare.

So she often reads you really well but its rare?

So which is it?

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

I think what bugs me more than anything about either Rad or Nancy is this like, obtuse indignance toward those suspecting them.

For Rad it's the "OK but do you have OTHER reasons to think I'm scum or just those?" And for Nancy it's the "Anyone with a brain can see I'm town here so the fact they're not looking elsewhere is obviously scum indicative"

My bad. I'll try harder to keep my emotions in check. I tend to get pissed off when people assign wrong emotions to me or reasoning that's just bullshit and I should just hold those reactions back. Like I don't just automatically read anyone as scum when I get read as scum, it depends how they do it, and it probably doesn't help anyone when I react openly to it.

Oh you're going to love me sweetie.

-ButterFlea(s)

[butterflies]

Remember I run this show!

Who are you? :/

So she often reads you really well but its rare?

Like Nancy is one of the rare people who can read me well

Well fwiw i'm leaving reading you to her

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

What do you think of 11292 ?

I was thinking CSF was scum for a while but this post put me off the idea.

That link didn’t work for me, can someone quote it? I have everything set to descending so that could be why?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

In case that link is also broken for others

Spoiler: 11292

not alot but I dug more bella spews

Don't agree with frog about the Titus hydra for now, but can see where they are coming from. Reassured cat is picking up the same vibes as me from galron.

They used cat's read as kind of a reassurance to look good for their galron read which is PD's previous slot

2080 is super town, tbone! What's your issue with cat.
?

2080 definitely isn't super town which reeks tmi

@tsly, you disagree? I think cat evaluates a ton of slots, but also sees some stuff where they disagree but also take the time to work out if the thought process behind it comes from a solveu town mindset. Plus, they were sharing a bunch of my thoughts - the ceph wagon, toad, etc. I disliked t bones reaction a lot, but also I think I'm just a bit clashy with t bone in general

Again they kind of used csf's reads to look good saying that they shared the same read on ceph and we already know that ceph is town.

I don't know how to read professor drapion - yesterday I was scum with frog, and today their scum reads are weird. I also think the consistent push on CSF is ridiculous, as they are my strongest town read.

They called csf their strongest town and used it to shade pd's push on csf

CSF is still obv town.

They kept calling csf obv town
I honestly haven't looked at any of csf posts on a microscope so I'm not sure how justified a tr on them is but this looks good for csf
especially when it's compared to bella's hedgy read on mathblade their scum buddy.

Gth, looks very much like a CSF pocket to me.

[butterflies]

Actually, this makes Pooky’s novice cop shot also more believable.

Why?

Because both BB and Pooky have claimed a two shot.

What does that have to do with anything? Why can't one of them be a 2 shot and the other be something else or nothing? Why can't town!BB be a 2 shot and scum!Pooky also claim a 2 shot? Why can't scum!BB fake claim 2 shot and town!Pooky actually be a 2 shot?

Actually nm, my theory doesn’t gel with Drap’s role.

I didn't want to explicitly point it out yet, but there's a train of thought

So you think there’s something to my theory then but Drap’s ungated, so not sure on how that fits but looks like all the players who can either check/communicate with the dead aren’t ungated. Dunn probably wasn’t or else I doubt he would have softed. Iirc, Frogs wasn’t ungated either, so someone ought to recheck that.

[butterflies]

Nancy can be dangerous. And she tends to read me really well which is rare.

So she often reads you really well but its rare?

So which is it?

-Butterflea

I’d actually trust Taly’s read on Johhny > my own, I think he’s had more experience playing with Johnny. Amirite @Taly?

[butterflies]

I don't mind a pooky track, and I don't mind those suspicious of them, but announcing it beforehand kind of defeats the purpose, yeah?

Pooky - Johnny unaligned.

So is MB based on something I posted in our hood after n2 but I think think both are probably town here but if either were to flip scum, the other is very likely spewed town.

That’s my stance. I don’t believe either is scum here.

I’m referring to Pooky, Mislim Bait with this.

[butterflies]

Taly - reading through your ISO this turn, feel like you're asking a lot of questions in a way which could potentially compensate for actually being busy/scumhunting at times. Is this (yes I'm aware of the irony of this being a question) how you tend to approach the game in general? I feel at times like you're very much sort of loosely hunting for info while asking questions but not necessarily doing a whole lot with that info once you get it.

This is town!Taly besides Math clearly spewed him scum with his fence sitting during the gladiate. Did you even read their interactions during that?

[butterflies]

I think Malcolm is town, the Luke NK is a good point in favor of
a town malcolm.

Bleh this game is quite difficult

Whomever is scum is playing really well considering the scummiest flipped slot was antitown vt.

[butterflies]

Hey Malcolm, do you lean scum on any of the following?

Mala, OTH, BB

I don’t understand the srs on either OtH or BB and would hard veto both of them.

[butterflies]

Hey Malcolm, do you lean scum on any of the following?

Mala, OTH, BB

I don’t understand the srs on either OtH or BB and would hard veto both of them.

Mala then Nancy?

I keep going back and forth on that slot. In Pokemon Battles, she was super obvtown from the getgo, so wouldn’t be opposed. It’s extremely hard to tell with her. \_0_/

But wouldn’t veto that.

[butterflies]

What do people think about a mass claim? Since Enchant claimed the only vt role.

[butterflies]

Seems premature? but i will defer to the likes of pooky for that

Also there's at least one vt, not necessarily exactly one

Oh? I guess I misread Luke’s post then.

[butterflies]

I'm guessing that's a bad idea due to there potentially being a doc, but I'll accept whatever the consensus decision is since I really don't have any sort of grasp on that strategy

The unusual thing about this game is the complete randomization of roles, like if Bell actually was macho scum doc, then roles by themselves really tell us nothing except that flavour is apparently extremely useful wrt that.

How about a mass flavour claim then?

Also, while I hard tr Taly, Toog was bleeding obvtown from his very first post.

[butterflies]

My PT partner brought up the fact that they don't trust me, that I could be scum, and that I basically asked for a free pass through Day 1.

For those not in the know, I was involved in a head on collision last Friday night. My kids were in the car with me. I was ambulances to the ER, but thankfully my kids walked away with minor injuries.

I am doing some daily physical therapy and we are working with lawyers and insurance right now, and in my down time I am trying to relax and rest.

I don't anticipate this being problematic beyond this week, but if people feel I'm getting a pass, or need to replace out, I will.

---

I have not read anything other than my PT. I actually didn't consider the possibility that my partner might consider us unaligned. Based on my show knowledge, I actually would have thought us Masons if my PM didn't specifically call us neighbors.

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone. We are in a PT called Kissing Siblings, which I don't recall them being incestual at all, lol.

At any rate, I will get to this eventually.

2nd post.

[butterflies]

Does flavor claim help town at all? Town can sit here and try to figure out what each person is based on their flavor, and scum knows exactly which people they care about and can think about those people's flavor specifically. Seems bad for town and good for scum?

Idk but on d5, I don’t think it’s such a crazy idea. Doc should probably not claim though but we’ve already had 2 invest and one flipped invests, one flipped vig and 3 claimed roles checking/speaking with the dead. Idk what to do but we could of course ignore that. \_0_/

I’m not going to push this because town doc is still alive though. So maybe d6?

[butterflies]

Because I’m town by play, town by associations with scum, and potentially town via night actions (nk).

Bella spewed RCE town plus Toad sounds extremely different here than in Schadd’s game.

[butterflies]

I think what bugs me more than anything about either Rad or Nancy is this like, obtuse indignance toward those suspecting them.

For Rad it's the "OK but do you have OTHER reasons to think I'm scum or just those?" And for Nancy it's the "Anyone with a brain can see I'm town here so the fact they're not looking elsewhere is obviously scum indicative"

My bad. I'll try harder to keep my emotions in check. I tend to get pissed off when people assign wrong emotions to me or reasoning that's just bullshit and I should just hold those reactions back. Like I don't just automatically read anyone as scum when I get read as scum, it depends how they do it, and it probably doesn't help anyone when I react openly to it.

Oh you're going to love me sweetie.

-ButterFlea(s)

You seem fun. I like fun!

Lets see how fun we can be then. Looks like you're my hook.

Give me your breakdown of the game would you? Looks like you've been in a few holes.

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

@RAD, us and Mislilbait/Klick

[butterflies]

Yeah, Corwin's push on Mala means she is almost always town here.

Mala is also someone who hates playing scum and one of the players Pooky bussed in KTANE, so because of that not clearing. She could still be town but I could also see her telling her buddies to bus her if scum.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

#frogstar, I went back and just read your posts in iso And I think it's actually not massively to do with anything alignment indicative: I found the posts where you explained stuff townie and the shorter/direct stuff scummy. I had this issue recently with STD and gamma, so it's probably a me problem. I also had weird vibes about the you/gamma hydra/rad interaction - I didn't agree with your points about noticing the restrictions and the whole convo still looks a bit strange, but I liked your interaction with rad better.

In terms of reads, rad, pooky, bell, klick for their reads and interaction with my question, town, I'd like to say Luke is town but I've been hurt before, I kind of hate everything Dunn posts.

More later, many kids.

Scum very rarely puts their buddy at #1, probably clearing for RAD. Probably all of these town.

[butterflies]

Don't agree with frog about the Titus hydra for now, but can see where they are coming from.

Reassured cat is picking up the same vibes as me from galron

.

Think CSF is spewed town by this. Scum is usually likes to sheep a townie on a bad read.

[butterflies]

I didn't pay corwin a tonne of attention honestly.

I know part of Johnny/mala is lhf

, whatever, but the contributions they have made aren't great, and I remember the fact that they both kept popping in for page tops and it annoyed my more than anything they've actually said. Mala also did very similar in a recent game with math and Titus, in terms of engagement, I had the quite unpopular scum read on them day one and I was right.

Enchant is a meta read - really early game they felt like deptuy cultists but even when they've made contributions I just can't see any process/solve in their approach.

P-edit I guess I'll go back and look at corwin.

This is really interesting. Did Bella tmi slip one town between Johnny/Mala?

[butterflies]

I love Rad. Like romantically.

BBT loves VCA unless your VCA points to him, in which case it's absolute shit and you should feel embarassed for it wtf is wrong with you? Level 0.

The funniest part, imo.

lmmfaooooo

I could do either c and g or mathblade, don't want bbt or Malcolm.

DNA town from this, I highly doubt Bella would mention both buddies as possible votes and she really didn’t have a lot of choice with Math.

[butterflies]

I’m to be insufferable all game. all fucking game..

I mean at least I can talk to the dead.

VOTE: dancingpuppets

Do scum really soft their role this early?

I don't think so.

I feel like Mala very much has their own unique playing style a lot of the time, I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm not entirely convinced by the scumcase here. I feel like there's a risk Mala becomes a sort of easy elimination by default here. But maybe I'm just too tunnelled on Rad to see it - certainly if Mala does come back scum it gives us lots of useful info.

Talk me through your Rad tunnel then? Cause I'm not seeing it. The catchup tl;dr had a lot of information, nobody challenged it and it reminded someone of something. everything I'm seeing here since my arrival is good, honestly.

-butterflea

[butterflies]

Don't agree with frog about the Titus hydra for now, but can see where they are coming from.

Reassured cat is picking up the same vibes as me from galron

.

Think CSF is spewed town by this. Scum is usually likes to sheep a townie on a bad read.

No because I was Galron.

???

I think you didn’t get my point. Bella’s saying she’s reassured that CSF is mindmelding with her on a scum!Galron read. While sure it’s possible, in general when scum makes this kind of post, it’s usually not to a buddy.

[butterflies]

PD

I already full claimed.

I can easily be tracked to a corpse

Liming me when we don’t get flips is the wrong move

Let’s not go here.

Yeah claim isn't 2 shot so what are the other targets? I don't think mala has disclosed this info or am I missing it in the iso?

And just like with Frogs/Bella, roles aren’t ai in this game.

You don’t see a town role cop or a scum macho doc in many games.

~Nancyfly

(so was the last post)

[butterflies]

Could be, but that's the story with quite a few people. I think oth and csf have the scummiest vibes.

I'm also fully into this T- Bone vs Drap unrequited connection here, might vote there if one of them doesn't resolve soon

I think they’re both town. Drap from play and BLATANT upon blatant upon blatant anti-associatives with Bella and Pooky towncleared T-Bone. I also recall seeing some T-Bone posts (can’t recall offhand) which looked uninformed to me.

[butterflies]

Sorry I’m just in a foul mood

And this stupid bull shut if she must be scum because she’s playing differently when I am trying to change my meta because I’m sick of my scum and my town play being day and night so yes maybe I’m trying to make my town Meta similar to my scum meta because I’m just sick of being transparent scum

Why would you try to emulate your scum meta here?

And if you’re town here, why would this even be a pressing concern for you in THIS game?

~NF

[butterflies]

Mala's claim doesn't look too hot. I definitely wouldn't call that a shining beacon of towniness.
~Cytosine

Go on Lim me then.

Here I’ll even help Rad’s stupid push and movement.

Once I’m dead, kill rad and then look at OTH

And then get actual fuckifn scum

Rather than go for easy fucking targets.

VOTE: Mala

Why would you self-vote here?

[butterflies]

Just vote Best Bird, they got caught awhile ago

???

Where?

[butterflies]

Vote: Drapion

I’m extremely glad you don’t have a gladiate

[butterflies]

Sorry I’m just in a foul mood

And this stupid bull shut if

she must be scum because she’s playing differently when I am trying to change my meta because I’m sick of my scum and my town play being day and night so yes maybe I’m trying to make my town Meta similar to my scum meta because I’m just sick of being transparent scum

Why would you try to emulate your scum meta here?

And if you’re town here, why would this even be a pressing concern for you in THIS game?

~NF

VOTE: Mala

This specific AtE about her being sick of being “transparent scum” makes very little sense to me, if she’s actually town here.

~N

[butterflies]

Mala/Malcolm should contain a wolf.

I think Mala likely is, really no idea rn about Malcolm.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I’m to be insufferable all game. all fucking game..

I mean at least I can talk to the dead.

VOTE: dancingpuppets

Do scum really soft their role this early?

I don't think so.

I feel like Mala very much has their own unique playing style a lot of the time, I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm not entirely convinced by the scumcase here. I feel like there's a risk Mala becomes a sort of easy elimination by default here. But maybe I'm just too tunnelled on Rad to see it - certainly if Mala does come back scum it gives us lots of useful info.

Talk me through your Rad tunnel then? Cause I'm not seeing it. The catchup tl;dr had a lot of information, nobody challenged it and it reminded someone of something. everything I'm seeing here since my arrival is good, honestly.

-butterflea

Just that I believe Rad is scum - I'm aware I've been on this path for a lot of the game though (albeit with some wavering around D3 if I remember correctly). Mala coming back scum would confirm Rad is town right enough, and I'm aware I could be in the wrong.

So its a habit, with nothing substancial to it?

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

Sorry I’m just in a foul mood

And this stupid bull shut if

she must be scum because she’s playing differently when I am trying to change my meta because I’m sick of my scum and my town play being day and night so yes maybe I’m trying to make my town Meta similar to my scum meta because I’m just sick of being transparent scum

Why would you try to emulate your scum meta here?

And if you’re town here, why would this even be a pressing concern for you in THIS game?

~NF

VOTE: Mala

This specific AtE about her being sick of being “transparent scum” makes very little sense to me, if she’s actually town here.

~N

Seconded.
-ButterFlea

[butterflies]

I haven't read any of the last 30 pages but just based on this page I think Mala is like locktown

Mala said she’s trying to replicate her scumgame as town because she’s tired of being “transparent scum” in a game where she’s town. makes sense to you, how?

[butterflies]

Flavor

Vote Count 5.3

5 MalcolmTucker (BlueBloodedToffee, Mislim Bait, Cytosine and Guanine)
5 Malakittens (Malakittens, Best Bird, Rad, butterchurn, ProfessorDrapion, butterflies)

2 Rad (MalcolmTucker, PookyTheMagicalBear)
2 JohnnyFarrar (Cat Scratch Fever, Off the Hook)

1 Bluebloodedtoffee (butterflies)
1 Cat Scratch Fever (JohnnyFarrar)
1 Best Bird (Roden)
1 ProfessorDrapion (T-Bone)

Not Voting (Taly, RCEnigma)

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-08-13 19:28:13)

Mod Notes

@STD, I am currently voting Mala not BBT, please fix, ty.

[butterflies]

I haven't read any of the last 30 pages but just based on this page I think Mala is like locktown

Mala said she’s trying to replicate her scumgame as town because she’s tired of being “transparent scum” in a game where she’s town. makes sense to you, how?

how is she in her scum meta again

Sorry I’m just in a foul mood

And this stupid bull shut if she must be scum because she’s playing differently when I am trying to change my meta because I’m sick of my scum and my town play being day and night so yes maybe I’m trying to make my town Meta similar to my scum meta because I’m just sick of being transparent scum

Why does town!Mala make this post? Who tries to replicate their scum meta unless they’re some kind of jester?

[butterflies]

ok but how is she in her scum meta?

She is saying she was trying to replicate it, so why would she even do that? I don’t know how this isn’t making sense to you?

Like sure it’s of course possible she could be doing that but WHY? And tbh, I wouldn’t even have a clue how to replicate mine. Even if I rolled jester I wouldn’t know how to do that.

[butterflies]

This is assuming oth doesn't have a role where the mod announces the result. I can't remember if that's the case with oth's outted role.

"one shot public corner" is my role

do you know what public means :rosejudge:

i kinda want to public coroner mathblade just to see if the dude is actually a neighbor

If you believe mala is town coroner, she has already gotten the result on math

+1

@Pooky, you can’t both tr Mala and not believe in her results.

[butterflies]

This is assuming oth doesn't have a role where the mod announces the result. I can't remember if that's the case with oth's outted role.

"one shot public corner" is my role

do you know what public means :rosejudge:

i kinda want to public coroner mathblade just to see if the dude is actually a neighbor

If you believe mala is town coroner, she has already gotten the result on math

oh she already got a neighbor result on him?

Between Drap, T-Bone and Pooky, this game has officially now become a meme.

[butterflies]

ok but how is she in her scum meta?

She is saying she was trying to replicate it, so why would she even do that? I don’t know how this isn’t making sense to you?

Like sure it’s of course possible she could be doing that but WHY? And tbh, I wouldn’t even have a clue how to replicate mine. Even if I rolled jester I wouldn’t know how to do that.

cuz people r lazy?

easier for town players to replicate their scum meta than scum players to replicate their town meta tbh

I wouldn’t know because I’ve never tried.

[butterflies]

i dunno if you've noticed but I might have stopped paying attention 2 weeks ago

I can totally believe that.

[butterflies]

Apparently I’m a doible voter and don’t know it, since STD still has me voting BBT as well as Mala.

[butterflies]

Frogs was definitely the worst coroner check, dude claimed in large bold letters so clearly you could see it from Mars.

[butterflies]

Let's kill a mason and then coroner to be sure

I seriously hope this post is in jest. If not, you’re extremely lucky Pooky towncleared you.

[butterflies]

Let's kill a mason and then coroner to be sure

I seriously hope this post is in jest. If not, you’re extremely lucky Pooky towncleared you.

he's joking/baiting i think lol

With him or Drap, I have a very difficult time being able to determine that. I think Pooky is really obvious town now and Drap seriously suggested we lim him before elo.

I would prefer to lim slots that I think could actually be scum.

[butterflies]

I don't wanna shut down rad's attempt on mech solving for the 2nd time now but who actually read 12058 and thought that yeah this is a good idea.

to sum that post up we're basically misliming a town(town!rad world)
wasting 2 coroner shots, bb's shot and tracker's shot all just to prove that mala is telling the truth about being a coroner which is nai.

Well most of it went over my head but what I did get out of it is that RAD’s probably town, so that much was super helpful.

[butterflies]

Yeah I agree. Mala is very likely telling the truth about her role.

[butterflies]

the timing of that post was also bad
both mala/malcolm were the top wagons when they said that
and they both scumread them
so why would they suggest a town!rad mislim?

Rad sounds fine up until 12058
and any mala/malcolm scum flip would also spew rad town
If it wasn't for these I would probably go there today

Idk what to think anymore. Some of Mala’s posts do make sense.

Her frustration despite the godawful post could also possibly be townie frustration.

UNVOTE:

for now.

[butterflies]

Yeah I agree. Mala is very likely telling the truth about her role.

I don't think so because the frog n4 makes no sense except for scum!mala being able to say their role without being counter claimed.

She made some post about her being able to be tracked to a corpse and I don’t think that her coronering Frogs necessarily means she’s lying about her role.

Your argument would be more persuasive if you said she tracked someone else and is lying about it. I think she very likely is coroner, I just don’t know if it’s town.

[butterflies]

Like Bella was likely telling the truth about being macho doc but she was probably lying about visiting you n1 instead of Math. So if Mala’s scum, she probably did coroner someone but it might be different players than she claimed.

She knows Drap’s a tracker so it’s also possible she actually did coroner Frogs.

My point is that you have a much more believable case on Mala!scum than Mala lying about being coroner.

[butterflies]

I have a feeling that MB most likely used his rB on PD which is why he got a no result.

It makes logical sense.
Regardless of PD tracking Bella to the NK
That’s a reason why I’m hard clearing PD bc I know there was a scum rB which makes it mechanically clear for PD IMO

Well, I think that’s pretty damned obvious no? Which is also why I think Bella probably lied about visiting RAD n1, because I don’t think that Bella would doc RAD over Math if they thought Dunn softed vig, because why would Dunn shoot RAD?

[butterflies]

I mean everyone’s ignoring the elephant in the room when Bella basically tagged you into trying to be coached on how to claim her role

Yeah and I was like wtf? Because I am probably the worst person to be asking about that especially since I have very little familarity with LOST.

[butterflies]

@butterflies can you tell me what the difference is between Town!Hook to Wolf!Hook?

I have made like a gazillion posts on this already. But it seems no matter how many times I do this, I keep getting asked to repeat myself,

I linked Marci town and scumgames to show how her posting style is different dependent on alignment. Then there’s Gamma getting upset about (him believing) Marci getting potentially blamed for a possible Math townflip. The him taking the protown no elim position in gladiate. If that’s not enough for yiu, read my ISo (both hydras).

[butterflies]

Despite missing pages I don’t think I’ve missed any new info. Basically, I think rad is prob!town. I don’t want to vote Malcolm today and I’m fence sitting on mala. I think they could go either way and all of the slots in my Poe are hard defending mala which should just mean mala is scum to me but eh, I’m not like completely sold. I wouldn’t be super heartbroken if the vote was mala but I’d want OTH to go next.

But RCE roles aren’t alignment indicative! No. Flavor is relatively random and roles are loosely flavor related so idc about that argument. Nancy I hear you, hard veto, that’s fine. It’s still where I want to go.

Why oth over mala? The town!mala scenario isn't impossible but it's ridiculous and there's no reason for her to be angry at me when she's tanking her town play on purpose and facing the consequences.

I thought a lot about you and Bella and I came to the same conclusion on your slot as Drap but for entirely different reasons. And @Malcolm, Taly’s locktown for a lot of reasons. @RCE, I can’t think of a single good reason to vote OtH, so yes, you will have to fight me on that.

Luke said it’s important they stay alive and not shoot their shot, so elimming them today is absolutely antitown.

[butterflies]

rofl

if im still around at xylo i might off myself

[butterflies]

Town
Pooky
Rad
Cat
Enchant
Frog
Luke


Gap
Klick
Dancing puppets
Ceph
Roden
Bell
Johnny
Taly

Scum
Bbt
Galron
Dunn
Toad
Pp


Null
Tbone
Mala
Oof the hook
Cytosine and Guanine

Malcolm
Corwin

Dweelee

Look at this. Does scum usually list their teammates one after the other like that as opposed to spreading them out?

So the argument that Corwin had Mala last means nothing since Bella had Corwin second last.

[butterflies]

In her null reads but still, my point still stands, wrt to Malcolm.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Guys

I don’t wanna die anymore

I’m in a better mood now I swear

After I slept for a while ya know and cooled down

Why would you even want to die here if you’re town?

-especially via elim?

I don’t recall you ever wanting to die in Pokemon?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Mala you're a strong player as town. If you're actually doing some town meta switch just snap out of it and do your town thing. I'm not unvoting you for some AtE plead.

+1

@Mala do something townie. I don’t recall you having any trouble doing that in any towngame I’ve ever played with you?

That’s the major difference with OtH and why they’re such a horrible vote. They’ve been doing townie things throughout the game.

VOTE: Mala

I think Mala sounds like cornered scum to me and Corwin definitely placing her last as scum reads like tmi to me knowing how much Mala clearly hates getting a red role pm.

@Johnny, this is also who Flea wants to vote for but I’ll send faer your well wishes.

[butterflies]

Guys

I don’t wanna die anymore

I’m in a better mood now I swear

After I slept for a while ya know and cooled down

As I've said I'm sceptical you'll actually come back as scum but we're pretty much at a 1v1 here. I know I'm town and I think I've presented a perfectly reasonable towncase for myself outlining why that is.

So who would you prefer to lim then?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Also I’d take a closer look at the slots who have been dead quiet during this whole exchange IF IF IF AND ITS A BIG IF GUYS
THAT RAD AND I ARE BOTH TOWN.

BECAUSE ITS LIKELY SCUM ARE HIDING OUT RATHER THAN BEING IN THIS CONV TO STOP THIS 1v1

I just doubt rad is town

Why does Bella scum doc implicate her buddy RAD by saying she visited him n1? I also seriously doubt that happened. Bella either healed Math - most likely - or killed Dunn. But in any case, unless you’re going to argue that Bella is some brilliant genius wifom manipulator of the kind that would make a RadiantCowbells seethe with envy, I’m going to just logically assume that she wouldn’t so obviously try to implicate her buddy. If Bella was let’s saya scum jk for example, that would be different but I seriously cannot see Bella implicating her buddy like that, which means RAD is spewed town.

[butterflies]

Guys

I don’t wanna die anymore

I’m in a better mood now I swear

After I slept for a while ya know and cooled down

As I've said I'm sceptical you'll actually come back as scum but we're pretty much at a 1v1 here. I know I'm town and I think I've presented a perfectly reasonable towncase for myself outlining why that is.

So who would you prefer to lim then?

~Nancyfly

@Malcolm

[butterflies]

UNVOTE:

for now.

I want Malcolm to answer my question.

[butterflies]

@Mala, have you ever wanted to die before in a towngame? If so, could you please link it for me?

[butterflies]

Also I’d take a closer look at the slots who have been dead quiet during this whole exchange IF IF IF AND ITS A BIG IF GUYS
THAT RAD AND I ARE BOTH TOWN.

BECAUSE ITS LIKELY SCUM ARE HIDING OUT RATHER THAN BEING IN THIS CONV TO STOP THIS 1v1

I just doubt rad is town

Why does Bella scum doc implicate her buddy RAD by saying she visited him n1? I also seriously doubt that happened. Bella either healed Math - most likely - or killed Dunn. But in any case, unless you’re going to argue that Bella is some brilliant genius wifom manipulator of the kind that would make a RadiantCowbells seethe with envy, I’m going to just logically assume that she wouldn’t so obviously try to implicate her buddy. If Bella was let’s saya scum jk for example, that would be different but I seriously cannot see Bella implicating her buddy like that, which means RAD is spewed town.

@Malcolm, did you read my towncase on RAD? For RAD to be scum, you’d have to argue that Bella would intentionally try to implicate him with her flip -

because she is scum doc

. That’s the absolute last thing I’d expect scum!Bella to do to a buddy.

[butterflies]

Well I’m definitely not a wolf.

I mean you keep shouting JOhny Doctor

It’s like you are placing a target on his back so you should prob stop.

I can see the case for Town Rad and I’m sorry I didn’t see it sooner, but I kept saying if this is a t/T with him and I then scum is using it for a distraction

UNVOTE:

[butterflies]

I <3 CSF’s posts.

So what’s the argument for BBT? He thought Dunn was a mason? I think he softed vig but him pushing me for being hesitant on Bella was whack.

[butterflies]

Scum obviously have some sort of strongman then.

BBT, why is there no paranoia of a Bella fake claim here?

Then check this out T-Bone

I'd vote BBT

BBT and I were both town in C9++, and we literally saw a scum fakeclaim doctor - this was around the same time Bella claimed doc. In C9++, BBT was less hesitant to doubt Enchant's doctor claim, and ultimately even voted Enchant.

Spoiler: Posts from C9++

Subject: Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

Aw my pagetop.

I am Doctor.

Subject: Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

VOTE: Enchant

Hoping to wake up to a hammer.

Subject: Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

Enchant has been eliminated. They were a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

It is now Night 1. The night deadline is in (expired on 2022-07-25 21:12:56).

The night can end early if all living players agree.

This is pretty compelling.

I could definitely see scum gambiting with out of two strongly sr players, the survivor would get towncred from the flip.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: bbt

I actually read some of ktane as it was happening, not enough to follow all the bomb stuff, enough to grab some town reads.

UNVOTE:

Scum do this kind of thing a lot to distance but not actually put their buddy in danger, so Bella’s interactions with BBT aren’t clearing.

[butterflies]

I’m kind of getting buddy interactions with Corwin. Corwin engaged with BBT problem more than he did Frogs but on a very friendly way’

[butterflies]

Corwin, talk more about your read on me? In our newbie, you said you came into the game with a lean scum read on me before you replaced in.

Given that, why are you suddenly so paranoid about trying to read me?

I'm down for a Toad wagon as well. Haven't seen much from them in the 20 pages I've read but enough to vote.

Nobody interested in Penguin?

Bleh. You could have link our T/T game where I nuked you immediately because I was paranoid you were manipulating me so they've got context. I'd rather just forget that game happened.

@Raad https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89555

I don't know why everyone thinks I'm paranoid of you here. I think you're hard to read, and

you'll do a lot of scummy shit as town so you can get away with scummy shit as scum

. As I said in one of my last posts, I'm pretty null on you... I'm pretty null on most people until there are elims and actual information unless there's a good reason not to be, then I'll go look at votes, interactions, associations. Right now you're just another player, who I'd rather not nuke D1 out of kindness and fun potential.

Looks like potentially setting up BBT to not be sr.

[butterflies]

9 Cephrir (ProfessorDrapion, JohnnyFarrar, Taly, Off the Hook, T-Bone, Lukewarm, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rad, Dancing Puppets)
8 Taly (Dunnstral, Cephrir, Frogsterking, Klick, MalcolmTucker, RCEnigma, Roden, Bell)

What 180 on Taly?

I thought you flipped your read on them, if I misunderstood you, please feel free to correct me on that.

I have no read

My top theory is she is scum but that’s a theory

back it up with a vote im tired of this fencesitting

I am fine fencesitting tyvm

Stating the obvious that Taly is never SvS with Math.

[butterflies]

Re-IS0’d BBT and his progression on my slot feels fake considering how he interacted with me pre-Bella flip.

VOTE: BBT

[butterflies]

You're scum for being on my wagon countering Math and your attempt at linking me with Math for start of Day.

Johnny is town because both Corwin and Bella have tried to shade that slot way too much for them to be scum together.

Hmm, after reading Bella's ISO maybe Johnny can be scum with her.

She shades him a fair bit but never really pushes him and always finds someone else to vote.

Based on play alone, I don't think Bella is scum. As such, I'm willing to believe the claim and also think scum have a strongman.

We're not yeeting Bella.

Pooky is scum posting again.

Although actually, now that I think about it, scum using a strongman on Bell when there are so many potential options for a Doc to save doesn't really make sense.

mmm...maybe i'm wrong on rad

Bella's play doesn't feel like scum though?

Scum obviously have some sort of strongman then.

BBT, why is there no paranoia of a Bella fake claim here?

Because of how she claimed.

VOTE: Bella

I really don't think Bella is the elim Today.

UNVOTE:

Bella issue resolves itself in time, no?

@BBT, what makes absolutely no sense to me is how the day after Bella flip, I become a strong strong sr for you when the day before you expressed similar thoughts. That’s why it read fake to me and you aren’t cleared by Corwin interactions.

Also, the most concerning thing is what CSF said about you not believing Enchant’s fake doc claim. Why wouldn’t you be more skeptical here after that game?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

This one happened before the other game, no?

I flip flop a lot in regards to my read on you - so what?

Also, meta is awful. Different games and different situations.

My point is that you go from seeming to mindmeld with me on d3 wrt tl Bella tl suddenly having a strong scumread on my slot on d4.

I’m aware of your opinion on meta and hard disagree with it.

[butterflies]

You can hard disagree all you like. Your meta reads this game have been garbage and you tried to use meta to read me and it was equally as bad.

Just because we thought the same thing it doesn't make us the same alignment. Especially when me thinking was way out there simply based on the fact I wanted Bella to be town more than anything actually content based.

I've scum read your slot for the majority of the game.

Bell flipped town, Taly is obvtown and yes still think OtH is very obviously town, so exactly what meta reads are tou considering “garbage”?

Well I obviously wouldn’t be voting you if I thought we were the same alignment. duh

[butterflies]

aight I'm 13 pages behind, manic and caffinated. Lets see what magic I can make happen.

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

So far you have one correct read, congrats I guess?

Your meta read on me - garbage
Meta read on Bella - garbage
Your 'Math is 80% town' - garbage.

The last one was I believe from Titus but could be wrong about that.

I never hard vetoed either Bella or Math but I did Bell, Dunn, Dwlee, Taly and OtH.

I caught scum!Dwlee and duckling in Pokemon based off of partially meta. so yoi can stopit with the insults.

[butterflies]

Is it typical for you always to be confrontational and unpleasant? Because it’s hella annoying frankly, whatever you are in this game.

[butterflies]

Insults? Just facts, your reads have been garbage and you base them largely on meta. Your slot was hard TR Bella, don't try and pretend otherwise.

I don't particularly care about your reads from other games either.

'ey up.

Whats the beef and whats your actual thoughts on this slot? You're a spicy bean and I got energy to spare.

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

Is it typical for you always to be confrontational and unpleasant? Because it’s hella annoying frankly, whatever you are in this game.

I don't know, I guess you could do a survey or something with people I have played with?

I'm sorry if facts upset you or make me unpleasant. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

The way you present them and are trying to talk down at my lovely hydra partner is likely playing a big part in this. Maybe work on how you talk to people because frankly its crap when people talk at you like you're irrelevant and a waste of space, you get me?

Whats the beef and whats your actual thoughts on this slot? You're a spicy bean and I got energy to spare.

-Butterflea

The beef is your slot has been scum reading me for a long time and usually based on very bad reasoning and as such my OMGUS has kicked in and it leads me to believe there is no way that town can have so many bad takes, you know?

Plus, your slot hard town read both flipped scum and that's kind of yikes. You get me?

So funny thing is, you're not mentioned at all in Nancys catchups to me and updates as I'm dealing with my irl crap. Now you are free to interpret that information as you want, but, you're admitting to OMGUS which is an attempt to discredit our position by literally saying "lol u suck" and you're hammering home this point as much as you possibly can. So you're trying to use a discredit tactic legitimately by calling it out yourself on D5.

Town absolutely can have so many bad takes and often the people with the worst takes in the game flip green or jester. The people to watch for are those people who are trying to maintain a number between good and bad.

So tell me again, whats your actual beef with our slot?

-Float like a Butterflea sting like a flea bite.

[butterflies]

Is it typical for you always to be confrontational and unpleasant? Because it’s hella annoying frankly, whatever you are in this game.

I don't know, I guess you could do a survey or something with people I have played with?

I'm sorry if facts upset you or make me unpleasant. That's just the way it is unfortunately.

Whats the beef and whats your actual thoughts on this slot? You're a spicy bean and I got energy to spare.

-Butterflea

The beef is your slot has been scum reading me for a long time and usually based on very bad reasoning and as such my OMGUS has kicked in and it leads me to believe there is no way that town can have so many bad takes, you know?

Plus, your slot hard town read both flipped scum and that's kind of yikes. You get me?

My hard trs were Bell. Dunn, Dwlee, Taly, OtH, Drap but feel free to continue with this misrep.

[butterflies]

Butterflea is the absolute best! <3

[butterflies]

True, there will never come a day when I will ever enjoy beinf misrepped.

[butterflies]

I don't think I was talking down at all, Nancy asked where her meta reads were garbage and I showed her and she didn't like it.

Also, saying you were right about town is like 'so what?' Scum know who town are and can easily produce reasoning for someone to be town when they know that that person is town. Scum reads are much more interesting and so far you've town read both scum and are scum reading me. So, it doesn't look good, you know?

I admitted to OMGUS at the start of D2, the second DP started their BS push on me which was absurd. As soon as I feel like I'm being pushed in bad faith, I'm going to focus in on that player.

Again, my beef with your slot is; a) bad reads and b) a bad push on me.

Johnny just soul read me. God damn.

Saying you're right about town is one thing.
Saying it and having evidence is another.
But you're right scum reads are much more interesting.

See I'm entirely neutral on you and I'm hoping to come out of this with a read.
Have you taken a similar approach with anyone else this game who has had the unfortunate misfortune of townreading scum?

I think our(nancys) stance on you currently has a little more ground as you've just said this is an OMGUS from D2 and we're 5 or 6 phases later in a large game.

Scum reads are definitely more interesting to look at, especially when they come with some meat.

Now you hate meta, I hate people calling "Bad faith!" because it's such an awful "I don't like this person, I REFUSE THEM!!"

*faints dramatically onto a convenient chaise lounge*

escape - and its often used to escape my clutches. But then you lock onto that player? For a day maybe, for 3 days and counting? nah.

So your beef is actually just bone.

My read on you? I'm happy with our vote being on you for now.

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

I haven't been just pushing your slot for 3 days, but sure?

The reasons that were valid on D2 are still valid now but with some additions.

You can tunnel without a push.
I'm failing to see any mention of additions.

I've asked you what your issue with our slot is.
Everytime you come back with nothing workable. You've said OMGUS and you've mentioned bad faith.

This is nothing but bone. There is no meat here, there's nothing of any substance.

I can see why Nancy and Titus have SRd you. You talk big, you talk down, you're all mouth and no trousers.

-Butterflea.

[butterflies]

So is there a deadline soon? I feel like today is stalling a bit. Questions at the top of my mind:

1. Are we leasing Hook and Mala to someone for role confirmation?

2. Furthermore, how long do we continue refusing to vote those who have claimed a role?

3. How is flea doing?

Flea is crawling back from a severe pain flare, and IBS flare, LARPing and being low manic, Thanks for asking. Hows you?

[butterflies]

This one happened before the other game, no?

I flip flop a lot in regards to my read on you - so what?

Also, meta is awful. Different games and different situations.

You can hard disagree all you like. Your meta reads this game have been garbage and you tried to use meta to read me and it was equally as bad.

Just because we thought the same thing it doesn't make us the same alignment. Especially when me thinking was way out there simply based on the fact I wanted Bella to be town more than anything actually content based.

I've scum read your slot for the majority of the game.

Interesting...

[butterflies]

Aight Butterflea caught up may refresh a couple times before bed, but I'm good with BBTBad

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

BBT loves VCA unless your VCA points to him, in which case it's absolute shit and you should feel embarassed for it wtf is wrong with you? Level 0. ~RAD

Still hands down, the most insightful quote ever.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I’m just having serious trouble believing that BBT’s push on us isn’t fake. Fyi, In Post Apocalypse SK voteparked on me all day because he of course knew I was never getting yeeted.

[butterflies]

You talking about another game yet again as if it has any relevance on this game whatsoever?

This statement is LOl.

I’d much rather talk to you than BBT anyway. My point was that I think Malcolm brought up something about BBT not playing it safe by sr me I think? And that was my rebuttal to that. Like idk wtf he’s doing but nothing he’s said to me so far, makes me want to unvote him.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Because you're equating the "meta is trash" stance with "this is why I think X about alignment" stance. They are two separate thoughts and BBT clearly wrote them as separate thoughts.

Why not talk to Johnny I’m Neighbourhood about it?
Seems your trying to either cause damage on the poor butterfly and give Blue the mushroom to level up as a form of protection.
I won’t let either happen, I got the star.

Because I call Johnny scum in the neighborhood, so we're too busy for discussing bad takes.

Why?

I mean why do sr Johnny?

~N

[butterflies]

@Mala, have you ever wanted to die before in a towngame? If so, could you please link it for me?

Yes many times & I’d have to search my hx and I’m already limited as it is

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=19101

I read through this earlier. The big difference between here and there is there you got angry and kept trying to solve, while here you just got angry. I don't see how you're not scum here.

I honestly don’t know what to think about this RAD because BBT has turned my brain to mush, so if there’s a world where he’s actually town here, he isn’t helping anything. :/

[butterflies]

the party never ends when dj pooky is here

[butterflies]

We're not elimming me, you should stop pushing me.

I can see that, I am trying to show you the correct way.

I'm the leading wagon.

That's not good

Wow, totally compelling stuff here.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Maybe Johnny wagon could be considered there too.

Johnny isn't a wagon. It's a vanity vote at this point.

If Johhny’s actual doc like Drap seems to think, then Drap would probably be nk’d in that case. We know that town doc is likely on Drap, we just don’t know for sure who that is and at this point in the game, unless I’m locked convinced Johnny is really scum here, probably way too soon to test it, I think.

So if Johnny’s doc, his role is resololvable, because I don’t see why scum would allow Drap to stay alive. In any case, I don’t think Johnny’s a good vote today.

[butterflies]

I'm glad you agree.

How about you unvote now?

Based on what? You’ve said absolutely nothing to make me change my mind on you.

[butterflies]

Because you know I'm town so unvote.

No I don’t, I obviously wouldn’t be voting for you if I thought that. Whatever tf you apparently think that these jedi mind tricks are supposed to accomplish: NEWSFLASH, they’re not working.

[butterflies]

Like, in what world am I scum with Math and Bella?

It just isn't possible.

Math tried to run me up according to DNA hood paraphrase and that didn’t stop you from pushing me. Besides, I don’t see why you’re necessarily clear from any of it.

RAD is and I explained why but why are you?

[butterflies]

I'm glad you agree.

How about you unvote now?

Nah.

You've given nothing at all for me to work with. I'm wanting the vote kept on you.

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

I'm glad you agree.

How about you unvote now?

Nah.

You've given nothing at all for me to work with. I'm wanting the vote kept on you.

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

how did....

my laptop really is screwed.