Large Normal 240: Baileyposting [game over]

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wattuuuuuuuuuuuuup

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uhm, im worried that it's page 25 and meg is already at 7 votes without a counterwagon? what's happening here? i've been seeing these from my past games and it's almost always scum behind it.

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VOTE: bugspray

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i wanna see something

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I will say though there's a decent likelihood that Bugspray is town if Meg is scum because this counterwagon feels kinda weak and is on arguably the easiest target in the game.

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Crescent do you townread bugs?

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Crescent-Meg-bugs is likely imo

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FancyPants* - lurk idk
Vivax - troll town
MalcolmTucker - prob maf
Greeting - idk always failed at reading
Firebringer - hot null would't care to vote
Fredrick A Campbell - can afford to die
Dwlee99* - lurk
Crescent - eh idk
Lowell - prob town
bugspray - always failed at reading
PookyTheMagicalBear - always mafia
geraintm - prob maf
UNOwen - idk i started yawning at this guy, pretend that's there's something funny drawn at next 3 persons and i call it a day, too much effort for me
Prince of Paterson
Andante
MegAzumarill

VOTE: Enchant
When has Enchant ever made a reads list

wow Enchant made a readslist

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if i had more to say on crescent i would say it. I just read her posts and was like "this person is someone i should look into later"

Why is azumaril wagon bad

Tonal town read on them.

If the only read you have on someone is tonal why would you think its a bad wagon.

To me this feels like tmi that I'm town.
Also dont like the MT vote.
VOTE: Fancypants

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if i had more to say on crescent i would say it. I just read her posts and was like "this person is someone i should look into later"

Why is azumaril wagon bad

Tonal town read on them.

If the only read you have on someone is tonal why would you think its a bad wagon.

To me this feels like tmi that I'm town.
Also dont like the MT vote.
VOTE: Fancypants

VOTE: Lowell

what changed between this and this

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Her focus on my slot suddenly vanished

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Am I not enough

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oh I like Fredrick A Campbell

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Ger tends not to do much on D1 as a general rule. Vote on Fred could be read as opportunistic and there's not much in their limited ISO so far but it's feasible from town Ger.

this feels like TMI

VOTE: Malcolm

like, ok so what gerain usually doesn't do much? you used too many words to go "gerain probably town" like, you're trying to justify a TR there, but it's actually a really bad take, cause I have a great example of scum!gerain doing nothing day 1. but going "that's feasible from town Ger" like what?? Gerain should be no where near being called town right now. I'm not saying they have to be a SR, but like, there's nothing in this game so far to push gerain into TR territory

I also like Andante

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Maybe I'm a bit biased but I can't unsee bugs-Crescent-Meg lol

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FancyPants* - lurk idk
Vivax - troll town
MalcolmTucker - prob maf
Greeting - idk always failed at reading
Firebringer - hot null would't care to vote
Fredrick A Campbell - can afford to die
Dwlee99* - lurk
Crescent - eh idk
Lowell - prob town
bugspray - always failed at reading
PookyTheMagicalBear - always mafia
geraintm - prob maf
UNOwen - idk i started yawning at this guy, pretend that's there's something funny drawn at next 3 persons and i call it a day, too much effort for me
Prince of Paterson
Andante
MegAzumarill

now that i look at this with squinting eyes, this isn't effort at all

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Do you also scumread Malcolm Tucker?

if Meg is scum i think Malcolm can be scum too because i think their read on meg is remarkably absent of nuance, which is a signature of town!MalcolmTucker.

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Why's Meg scum? Posts seem alright so far.

I could see Lowell as possible scum, lot of jumping around in terms of reads and nothing that feels too solid or concrete other than maybe Meg.

this is the only mention of Meg re:MT, which is weird because Meg is the top wagon and MT always has something to say.

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for absolutely no reason.

you haven't been voting when i came in and the top wagons were Meg and bugs.

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Crescent
Why chase after Lee despite bugspray, your scumread, being within reach? What's the difference between Lee's slot and bugs'?

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Thanks for responding

Meg and Fred are very directly tied to each other through their actions today. Combine this with Meg doing virtually nothing under pressure: I think if one is scum, the other is.

I wasn't here, can you tell me how?

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how did meg blow the momentum up? im not seeing meg voting fred

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Do you also scumread Malcolm Tucker?

if Meg is scum i think Malcolm can be scum too because i think their read on meg is remarkably absent of nuance, which is a signature of

town!MalcolmTucker.

town?MalcolmTucker

?

Or are you saying that Malcolm should always have a nuanced read on Meg and yours is a typo?

im saying town!Malcolm usually plays commentary on events but Meg being the top wagon and in seven votes should have earned Meg at least a defend and a reason (if they're townread by MT). their play was "meg's alright, what gives?" which was underwhelming

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i disagree that fred and meg is correlated in some inverse fashion. i just fail to see the connection.
i do like your thought process on Andante v Meg.

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maybe if anything, #172 is the real reason imo that fred and meg can be TvS if Meg is scum. I dont think scum (Fred) is likely to tie and rule-out partner connections with other slots? (ruling out Meg with the slots mentioned, except if those slots are scum, ig?)

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so you think it's likelier that Fred and Meg are one scum whiteknighting the other scummy town? (because you've been suggesting Meg/Fred inverse alignment) i guess i dont see why it would be mutual then?
regardless i think we reached the right conclusion, just not sure of how you got there.

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but you said it's TvS so im like ???

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you're describing an SvS relation

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holy shit i just understood

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maybe if anything, #172 is the real reason imo that fred and meg can be TvS if Meg is scum. I dont think scum (Fred) is likely to tie and rule-out partner connections with other slots? (ruling out Meg with the slots mentioned, except if those slots are scum, ig?)

this stands. what do you think about it?

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I want more from Lee, Firebringer, and Pooky before we end D1.

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But yes im okay with letting us move on to D2 with a Meg flip

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it's 17p. two flips is always better than a messy D1. it seems like there's a lot to learn from whether Meg is green or red. red flip means we can effectively townblock based on who fought for the wagon the hardest and green flip means we can hunt inside the wagon.

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or outside on green? these single voters especially MT on Andante makes me think that can probably flip scum anyway.

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if I'm allowed to pursue my own vanity wagon it's probably MT

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i also subscribe to solving bugs' slot after meg's slot.

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tomorrow i'll do more. hopefully meg would have been here. im really curious what she has to say.
im planning to do something but ill reserve it for later.
see ya.

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Don't think scum Gera pops in to make that unvote regardless of Meg's alignment so that turned out useful.

+1

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i dont know why im being shaded for not hammering when i said i still didn't want to hammer

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well thats a hammer

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day ended a little prematurely imo (it would have been better to hear more from meg and the people i cited) but im okay with this
see you tomorrow chums

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VOTE: MalcolmTucker the premature hammer is probably last minute bus. MT showed no signs of sussing Meg before that and the excuse is weak. I dont see town MT going for that if theres a risk Meg is green.

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Also sus Crescent for shading me just before Meg's flip when he was specifically concerned with an early day end just before putting Meg at E-1

I was very specific that I wanted Meg to come here and defend herself plus hear from the other players who just shitposted. Then he uses the opportunity to tie me in with Meg.

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What did I do Greeting

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I've been waiting for this Greeting, because you're probably town based on Meg's flip so I'll try to woo your confidence here. I'm not scum.

Your point above where you think me and my predecessor agree on stuff? It doesn't mean a thing. I'm not sure where you get the idea that this is scum-indicative, but it's literally just the same as having two slots say the same stance.

Reason/explanation? bugspray is sus and MT is sus and we both read the same game and we both reached the same conclusions. Crosscheck that with the other slots that have also observed the same thing that I have, and then logically deduce if it's because I have a town POV alternate to yours that others might also have.

Have you looked at the content of my posts? Do you have anything to say about it? If nothing else, I really think MT is flipping scum anyway and you're saying we can't both be scum. Suggestion: Help me flip him first, then let's come back to this and decide if you still want to have this conversation.

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Greeting you are absolutely tunelled.

Me not voting Meg is a natural move when Meg is at E-2 with a full fucking week before deadline and Enchant is on your playerlist. How else do you expect any!town would handle the situation? Would town immediately E-1 their scumread in that situation? Think about it.

I admit the more I think about it now, Crescent is back on my town list. Yesterday I took it against her that she was outside of any wagon despite expressing a scumread/PoE on bugs. But it makes me think that if I'm to believe bugspray's claim (which is probably true anyway), her position is actually indicative of town. But the observation I had was real because I expressed that I still wanted more from the day and that's not possible if I'm pushing the wagon to Enchant's hammer distance. It just seemed too convenient for me that Crescent will do that with Meg flipping scum immediately, and I kinda OMGUS'd it.

Also as I said it isn't damning. Your brain thought the coincidence is scum-indicative. Don't you think that it's more likely scum would have faked their own reads to recalibrate to status quo with their scummy slot? This is the same level of "informed agenda" that you're accusing me of (which the matching of reads would only be possible if i have read ahead or coordinated with a scum team) Why is my counterargument for this invalid — except for the fact that it's not the belief that you're holding on to?

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My fucking townreads are scumreading me
Help me jesus

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Well I wont and that's the point. Please remember that I just replaced in and I wanted to at least have a conversation with Meg — and I didn't even get to.

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I sussed Meg for her vote on my slot (FancyPants) which was switched from Andante (for being one of four with the same agenda) to me (alleging that giving a tonal townread is tmi). I thought it was weak and indicative that their Andante vote didn't progress to anything. Then they did it again with my slot to Lowell. I wanted to interrogate their POV first to get their side — specifically to ask if they townread Andante or I — but I acknowledged that they were the best elimination anyway.

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Sorry still getting used to the idea of alts lel

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I'll hop back into this game when I have some time away from work.

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game relevant post: i will literally vote anyone who isn't me

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I kinda lied about voting anyone so i dont get kicked out of the game

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But the truth is im in full preservation because mt wagon has faltered and im not feeling fred and i know that means i die because im the other wagon so yes i have some aversion upin self reflection i kinda feel that to engage means to get better reads and i dont have time yet

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I still feel that the reason for townreading mt is weak?

What has he done since he said he didnt know it was a hammer? It sounded very convenient and also we're ignoring that before that he didnt even scumread Meg or show signs of it. I would think MT understood that meg would have always been d1s elim

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Meanwhile fred has been producing reads in a way that is transparent and referenced even? Easier to read this person as thr game went on. I get that sometimes it makes you squint like when he was townreading dwlee but its such an unpopular thing to say inwould think as scum hed be aware of that?

But yeah id rather it be fred than me, not ideal though and refuting the enitre playerbase gives me social anxiety hahaha

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Oh ok

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Well ive been not reading this game since MT's wagon died and inwas the ciunterwagon so that tells you everything you know

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Ill gi do that soon. It's weekends soon <3

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Though I did iso MT and still didnt find any reason to let them off the hook

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Enchant why did you get off MT's wagon?

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VOTE: Malakittens

Im okay with this but also okay with Enchant but prefer MalcolmTucker.

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Greeting you've camped on my slot all day yesterday and didn't engage me even though I sufficiently refuted your points against me. If you're truly town, you should at least consider that you're wrong about me. Your Meg push is the only thing about you and jury's still out there if it's a full bus.

If Malcolm flips scum, you could easily be scum for townreading MT for being the same as the game you modded but I can personally testify that MT is

not

playing his town game based on a game I shared with them, especially near end D1 and D2. They're more a shoot-from-the-hip here's-my-analysis guy but here he's been sheepish and distant. I think you holding on to that read even though D2 happened makes me think your reads are not progressing as much as they should be.

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Meanwhile, I still think we can elim between {MalcolmTucker, Enchant, Malakittens} and it will yield a scum flip.

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I'd like to hear some elaboration on MT here, given I also soft-townread him.

As I said, I don't think town!MT comes in 8 days before deadline with a careless vote/hammer on a slot he townread all day just because a case convinced him — even though the slot ended up being scum.
Their angle on Fred is pure piggyback instead of anything that resembles a spark of originality — but on top of it all, there's nothing about MT's play that makes me think they're curious enough or solving the game.

The points against them being scum is "sloppiness" where people don't believe scum would play the way he did (in a way that endangers their slot/throws them under the bus as i understand it) but what was their alternative here? Anti-spew is a thing, especially if your slot is in danger of real elimination. I even think lack of self-preservation is scummy.

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Enchant being amused at his wagon isn't a town response btw
Annoyance is usually his response to it

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I'm sad that Greeting chooses to turn the blinders on reevaluating me and MT. Didn't even respond to MT questions from UNOwen and I — and still insists to get me limmed. It's MalcolmTucker or Enchant. Get with the program.

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On readd:

Andante is VERY lock town for three reasons:

Meg's push on Andante doesn't feel like distancing.
Andante's pressure to her wagon.
& her posts in general.

Andante is a slot I'll never lim.

I hate to say by page 12 I had a scummy vibe from the following players:

Bugspray (bugspray b/c all posts up to page 12 was spam, there was no intent of hunting involved. he continued the duel thing even when asked to cease/desist)
Viavx - It's hard to explain, but there was multiple posts that just gave me heebie-jeebies

I'm still trying to figure out what having bugspray here means for Malakittens.

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Unless you have confirmed in club of enchant fans, you know shit about me.

i'm one of your biggest fans

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gamma died so scum must have discussed killing him?

or it could be nai since mala could just not care about this game at all.

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vote count 1.07

with 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-22 23:00:00).

yeet

Fredrick A Campbell [4]:

bugspray, geraintm, Prince of Paterson, Lowell

MegAzumarill [4]:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Greeting, Firebringer, UNOwen

FancyPants [3]:

Vivax, Enchant, MegAzumarill

MalcolmTucker [2]:

FancyPants, Andante

Andante [1]:

MalcolmTucker

Enchant [1]:

Dwlee99

bugspray [1]:

Fredrick A Campbell

not voting [1]:

Crescent

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

flavour

UNOwen's Meg vote couldn't have been a bus. UNOwen changed his vote from Vivax to Meg here. Even before Lowell changes his vote from Meg to Fred. Since we now know Fred is town, this means UNOwen chose to put Meg at the leading wagon at greater than parity with a very limmable wagon. That's not the partner dynamic we're looking for. So that puts UNOwen at least likeliest busser.

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VOTE: FancyPants

FLASHWAGON!

This is also the vote Meg followed so I really think Enchant's gonna flip scum here.

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:*

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Huh. For some reason I thought you had one. Where are your voters?

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wtf i thought i was already voting Malcolm VOTE: MalcolmTucker

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MT at the end of D1, why did you feel as if Meg needed more pressure?

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MT at the end of D1, why did you feel as if Meg needed more pressure?

Slightly confused here - not seeing this in my ISO? I hammered without realising after all.

Then why did you vote?

Gotcha.

You knew it was a hammer.

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Please bury MT to the ground so I can achieve my locktown status.

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So you didn't want them eliminated yet?

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So if you think the game was headed in that direction, did you feel impatient?

Because it's not adding up.

You're presenting yourself as the type who won't rush a hammer until sufficient discussion was had.
You clearly assumed that the day would have ended in Meg's elimination.
That means you must know that there was a sufficient number in the wagon or that the pressure wasn't letting on.
Still you voted — why? Not consistent with the POV you're trying to present.

And now I ask you if it was a vote to pressure, that confuses you because the vote was to eliminate Meg and you knew it — therefore lying about not knowing it was a hammer.

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Unsure 1419 i don't like.

Why?

I'd like to hear some elaboration on MT here, given I also soft-townread him.

As I said, I don't think town!MT comes in 8 days before deadline with a careless vote/hammer on a slot he townread all day just because a case convinced him — even though the slot ended up being scum.
Their angle on Fred is pure piggyback instead of anything that resembles a spark of originality — but on top of it all, there's nothing about MT's play that makes me think they're curious enough or solving the game.

The points against them being scum is "sloppiness" where people don't believe scum would play the way he did (in a way that endangers their slot/throws them under the bus as i understand it) but what was their alternative here? Anti-spew is a thing, especially if your slot is in danger of real elimination. I even think lack of self-preservation is scummy.

this was it, and i am reading it back now and i am trying to remember why i didnt like it.

it is a weird mixture of regurgitating other people's thoughts on Malcolm and half formed thoughts of their own and throwing it all together to get a read and it just didnt feel right. like the bit about not thinking theyd be town but wait they could be town and i dunno....

thanks for asking me a question though

what the fuck are you talking about

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I'm not sure there's even anyone saying the things I'm saying. I'm the one who raised the point against MT's timing, his lack of curiosity, and I'm the only one who refuted the points against MT's case.

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Why don't you share your MT read if you think we're wrong then? You've ducked his wagon but you never really told us what you thought about Malcolm other than "MT is a good vote" in D1.

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I

specifically

laid out my reason why UNOwen is town and the next thing I know a wagon forms on them. This is outrageous. Why is it so hard to elim Malcolm?

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Why doesn't what you said apply to Firebringer?

"Votecount analysis is easy to manipulate. If you see Crescent, Andante and

Prince

coming in with the oomph wagon on Meg, you might want to start to cover your butt if you don't feel like fighting."

I get Greeting but her vote wasn't that critical to the elimination and we already see she can be inflexible with her reads. I've yet to deepdive her meta but if that's NAI then Greeting can still be scum. What makes Firebringer the least likeliest busser?

Crescent wasn't even coming in with the "oomph". Neither did Andante. Plus, I thought you had Prince as a scumread? Explain.

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I was writing to say that, but also Andante didn't vote Meg
What do you think about it now, Vivax?

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We should be focusing on an MT elim anyway. He's really, really struggling for scumreads.

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There's no conspiracy here. You were just plain wrong Vivax.

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Literally, all you need is to backread.

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and now you're shading me for it
great

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I really don't know what else I can do to convince everyone that MT is the right elim here. I've laid out everything and I even exposed MT when he slipped about the purpose of his vote. Getting tired of pushing there when I end up just being misrepresented by Lowell and Firebringer whenever they say that my case is just about MT's quickhammer. It's not.

If no one else wants me to follow there, I can always wagon Enchant and can also do Vivax, Malakittens, Lowell... even Andante who have stopped being townie since D1.

I will sheep Crescent's Firebringer read until a certain point in the game. I won't be voting PoP, UNOwen, Crescent, geraintm. Greeting until a certain point of the game as well.

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VOTE: Enchant Sure let's work together Greeting. Let's Enchant by the E-1.

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Enchant - i just cannot understand the logic behind any of their votes, they seem almost plucked from thin air

Unsure - similar to Enchant, just less of them.

Do you want to ask me anything?

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you should just go ahead enchant. i want to hear it too.

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I'm good in that department thank you. I don't know where gerain got that my votes are "plucked from thin air" but I don't think I've been vague. Meanwhile, you have been.

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No you

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Let's just end this day can we jesus

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*bangs head on table*

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Okay I want to join Firebringers avengers it sounds fun. What do I need to do?

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Fire why are you calling Enchant town but not putting them in your avengers

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be strong townread to lock for me. its called a town block - you haven't been townie to me all game.

no one wants to lim my scumreads so i never had the chance

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curious why you dont think i'm townie. obviously im a bit biased.

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Calling unsure town for now

doesn't seem like "all game" to me

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i do think you're probably town or at least playing to your meta. great to see you form a townblock and step up as leader which i've been waiting for and my towntell of u.

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fire can i interest you to an enchant lim instead? i do think enchant is playing his scum meta and town enchant puts out a grittier fight than this. mostly with insinuations of other parties being idiots. but scum enchant rolls over and anti-spews which is what we're seeing now.

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Yes!

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gerain do you still scumread enchant
let's end the day

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I guess hammer will come from MT once again. If Enchant flips scum, MT can be a partner for how much he's delaying to vote on that wagon even though he's publicly scumreading enchant here.

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VOTE: MalcolmTucker It's Christmas <3

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My role only allows me to successfully hit someone if they are town, so I have not used it yet because I'd not been confident enough of scum in D1 or D2 and felt the benefits of vigging someone were outweighed by the negatives of losing a townie.

???

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Please don't let Malcolm get away

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This isn't a discussion. MT needs to go.

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I will fucking lose it if MT gets to live for another day.

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I understand that mechanically, we keep him alive and let scum kill him we can see what happens overnight yadda yadda but i really dont want to do that when it's glaringly obvious that Malcolm is scum here.

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If town, MT literally decided not to use their powers 2 nights in a row because no one seems scummy but it's literally an investigative role and a free day in a large. MT could have literally just sheeped any of the townread he has. MT could have even shot Fred and Enchant who he has been willing to vote. What's the difference with the role he has and a literal day phase elimination?

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And it totally sounds like something you fakeclaim because there's a gunsmith in the game and you can't claim "odd-night" "even-night" anymore.

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VOTE: Malakittens

Less than 17 hours. Claim.

I'm gonna regret this.

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I still feel like Enchant could be scum because as you say there's a reluctance to actually push that through when it potentially looked like the most viable wagon at one point.

It's like you're taunting me.

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VOTE: MalcolmTucker Okay no takebacks this time

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great. now i really need to reread the game.

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I think we should decide if it's not better to mass role claim and figure out the setup now.

I agree with this.

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VOTE: Vivax I want to see what this guy does with a wagon.

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I think there's probably scum in that pivot to Malcolm after the claim.

Probably, but not certain. All four who switched were also on the 5 vote Mala wagon day 2. It's possible that's all town.

I don't like how you planted this and then didn't vote/sort inside that set. It feels like shade in a general direction.

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I am down to eliminate Malakittens today.

There are better way to solve the game by leaving Malakittens to day five and also the Malcolm flip makes me want to refrain from doing this kind of play.

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If Mala's claim is true then her green check on Enchant will be the only case where a PR has helped us win this game. Too bad it's a (in my opinion) scum fake claim.

I think there's a non-zero chance that Enchant is still town after we check if Mala's lying. But if we can afford it, I'd want to elim the slot before ELo.

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Mal

cok

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why are you even guilt-tripping? sorry i was wrong, but malcolm's play was scummy and right now im even considering those who defended him to be scum who tmi'd. yes you can argue that he flipped town but he was scummy nonetheless. it was palpable. check his wagon, we all can't be scum here.

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So it seems incredibly unlikely that both an even night cop and a N3 cop exist in this game right? Malakittens is surely scum.

And Lowell is definitely town.

there's an N3 cop?

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there's an N3 cop?

Yes, me. Lowell was my investigation target.

Excuse me?! And you believed Malakittens' claim day three because?

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hmm

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VOTE: Malakittens

Surely Datisi won't put 2 cops in one game, right?

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i only have one reason for not placing it and it's the cop claim

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i'll believe unowen's claim before believing malakittens' here.

if all claims are true, there are two or three more scum in {Vivax, Greeting, Firebringer, geraintm, Prince of Paterson, Crescent}. I can see Vivax/gerain/PoP being scum here. Maybe Greeting. Though I think the answer is as simple as there's a fakeclaim between Mala and Owen — and if one flips scum, the person they "checked" can also be scum. My theory is Mala and Enchant. I haven't ruled out that I've been pocketed and I'll watch out for that in my reread, but I won't have time to deepdive until five days for now because work.

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I support the massclaim

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Not even argument, using it on blatant scum is waste

scumslip?

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oh you mean D1 where we elimmed scum? i should have been the lim?

case me bro

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Yep. Be brave.

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Like if we're at day four and your beef with me is still because I was FancyPants then you dont have a case my bro

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and that's scum because?

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yeah i thought so.

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UNVOTE:

An unvote is game relevant, and I'm totally not prodging.

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V/LA until Wednesday.

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Like do people really believe I'm scum or are you guys just lazy

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What can I even do to change minds here? Seems like I'm being pushed as "scummiest" but there's really nothing to support that.

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Tell me what's the plan after I'm gone so I can consent to being voted out.

VT btw.

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STOP. Im a D6 Miller.

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I didnt want to eat the NK because scum is focused on doing killing roles and thats why im focused on staying alive

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VOTE: Unsure

Oh fuck my vote tripped

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fucking bus me omg

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my partners aren't hammering me wtf

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i explicitly asked to be hammered in scum pt

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antispew

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insert antispew here