Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Loki Dokie]

Mostly eyeing Dann and Bell for now as possible mafia, but nothing concrete.
A bit under the weather.

Please don't eye me.

That’s what the sunglasses are for.

Spoiler:

[Loki Dokie]

like I find it strange Radical Rat, Vivax, and Loki all came in clearly having been reading, but had nothing to say about the large wall a few posts before, or really anything substantive about the game. im not pointing fingers at anyone specifically but regardless of fire's alignment that's weird right?

I did read but as of yet formed no conclusions. Why is that weird?

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Lokie Dokie

VOTE: fire

You’d better explain this naked vote dude.

[Loki Dokie]

If I was going to attempt to give anything like reads this early, I so far like Bell and liked KT’s entrance and that’s all I’ve got for now.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Lokie Dokie

VOTE: fire

You’d better explain this naked vote dude.

do you really think your pop in was so undeserving of a vote that it demands explanation

i find that hard to believe

Yes, what is your reasoning for voting me?

I only ever ignore rvs votes on me.

[Loki Dokie]

originally it was bc i didn't like the way you entered without commenting on anything that had gone on

now its bc i think your response to being voted is scummy

What would actually be scummy is if I didn’t react to it because it’s the easiest fucking thing for scum to do, to drop a naked vote on someone and never have to give reasons and as far as I’m concerned, unless I have independent reasons outside of a vote for tr someone, you had better believe I’m not letting you or anyone else slide by with that.

[Loki Dokie]

like I find it strange Radical Rat, Vivax, and Loki all came in clearly having been reading, but had nothing to say about the large wall a few posts before, or really anything substantive about the game. im not pointing fingers at anyone specifically but regardless of fire's alignment that's weird right?

Another reason I don’t like your vote on me Fire.

[Loki Dokie]

like I find it strange Radical Rat, Vivax, and Loki all came in clearly having been reading, but had nothing to say about the large wall a few posts before, or really anything substantive about the game. im not pointing fingers at anyone specifically but regardless of fire's alignment that's weird right?

the lack of reactions to GL and fireisred is... troubling

Both of these.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Loki Dokie

Is anyone going to explain why I’m getting voted?

I hope people are watching the votes on me.

Dann expressed suspicion on Fire and GL and is now voting me.

Could this possibly be scum theatre?

Like it’s seriously weird that you’re voting me after sussing on Fire who’s now voting me.

Your naked vote on me may even be worse if possible.

[Loki Dokie]

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Dann

His vote on me is inconsistent with his earlier reads on Fire/GL.

[Loki Dokie]

Like it’s seriously weird that you’re voting me after sussing on Fire who’s now voting me.

what other explanations might there be?

If you genuinely think something is up with Fire/GL and Fire votes me and you sheep it, why wouldn’t I think that looks scummy af?

[Loki Dokie]

for the record I have never said I think GL is scum nor meant to imply it

I do not have any opinions yet but I get two votes on me for pretty much no reason other than I didn’t comment on something. Well I usually don’t until I have a much better read for what’s going on in the game, so no, I find both yours and Fire’s votes on me possibly scum indicative. But your sheeping him actually looks worse and unfortunately I can only vote one of you att.

[Loki Dokie]

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

You obviously have no idea who I am, do you?

[Loki Dokie]

oh ok i didn't know who you were lol

UNVOTE:

no longer think this reaction is unbelievable/scummy

You know? Am I that obvious?

[Loki Dokie]

for the record I have never said I think GL is scum nor meant to imply it

So what then was so extremely “troubling” to you that I failed to comment on then?

Are you planning to actually make sense at some point or not?

[Loki Dokie]

@Dann, please tell me what you think I or anyone else for that matter ought to be commenting on? I’m also haven’t really put much thought into anything yet.

[Loki Dokie]

I mean, someone made a case, or as much as you can make a case at this point of the game on another slot. Isn't that worth reading and either vocally agreeing with or disagreeing or drawing some conclusion from since it's one of the only bits of content in the game so far?

I'm not asking for theses or for everyone to be all caught up or have developed thoughts. It just strikes me as odd when people are present and commenting and posting but ignoring content *especially* at this stage of the game

Not for me it isn’t. I’m actually exhausted rn and this game just literally started, so if you’re town, your vote on me was probably just silly, since you don’t appear to be taking any of that into account but I will reread it tomorrow.

[Loki Dokie]

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

Code: Select all

This is still under consideration. Most likely not, but I do think it will stay for D1.

Oh lol, I was wondering why all of your posts looked like a computer read out.

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

[Loki Dokie]

Actually Vivax was in Terminator as well, so he doesn’t get a pass for that.

[Loki Dokie]

Vivax almost seems... too scummy to be scum

That’s actually his scum meta. His alignments is really obvious. I’ve seen him as both alignments, so that shouldn’t be a reason to clear him.

And @Dann, why was Fire jumping off of me not some huge wake up call for you?

[Loki Dokie]

I also have played with scum!furtive before (but he doesn’t know it) and it’s not a lot to go on yet but he seems different here than in that game.

[Loki Dokie]

At least one of the votes on me has been from scum.

And obviously not fire since I would have no way of guessing that he would know who I am, so scum!him would have never said he knew who I was and jumped off of me like that.

[Loki Dokie]

Actually Vivax was in Terminator as well, so he doesn’t get a pass for that.

Code: Select all

In fairness, Vivax didn't arrive in Terminator until after your fragile flesh body was destroyed. Similarly, Roden was replaced relatively early. However, even if these weren't the case, it seems unfair to expect that just because others have played in a game with you that they will now be able to read you perfectly. Especially if you are a competent scum player.

Your conclusion is likely correct regarding Vivax, but your reasoning seems distinctly inorganic.

Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was around in the beginning but I don’t tr the votes on me regardless because they’re at the best, hella dumb because smart town would realize have multiple people jump on someone like that for no good reason whatsoever is extremely suss.

Dann has also never wrongly sr me either but for some reason he hasn’t figured out who I am yet. Dann would never vote me as either alignment here if he had any idea who I was.

If town. he isn’t terrible at reading me, if scum, he’s not a masochist, so instead of trying to determine whether or not he’s correctly reading or pocketing me, I have instead need to determine if he’s wrongly sr me or shitpushing me but rn, Roden and Vivax look the worst to me.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann’s posting beside his bad vote on me look decent, so meh.

[Loki Dokie]

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

With or without TMI on Loki?
Changed my mind on him, got goosed by AtE.

VOTE: Loki

Loki's alignment doesn't matter, I'm saying you're mafia. Why are you trying to obfuscate/confuse the issue? Why would you even care whether you're 'mafia with someone' or not if you're town? Also this turnaround has not helped you.

If you have no opinion on Loki and think his alignment doesn't matter, me saying either way shouldn't bother you one bit unless you know something of Loki that I don't, which is probs that he's mafia.
So I naturally look to you like a townie who should appear scummy for that.

You are lock scum to me for this fyi.

VOTE: furtiveglance

I dislike your “lockscum” read when there’s nothing remotely scummy about his post.

[Loki Dokie]

ok I am feeling good about a Dann TR currently. I am not sure if I should be in the business of sharing every townread this game but I do like working with Dann so I'm gonna throw that one out there

I still kinda gut scumread everything fire is posting, I don't like that they unvoted Loki and didn't vote anywhere else.

I also don't like Rat describing my case as "nitpicking" in 175 - calling out the logical slip up is arguably a reach, like I understand that particular point is not necessarily AI, but the overall argument I was making was that I felt fire's TR on Ari was premeditated, which is definitely a cause for concern. Also, I want to clarify my understanding of that post in general - RR, are you using "human"/"AI" as stand-ins for "town"/"mafia", or are you just making a joke about the flavor and Bell's comment as opposed to making a read on me?

I feel like I know who Loki is and I have a lot of trouble with his playstyle because he can not fathom or accept any suspicion or scrutiny on him in any circumstances, but so far I am fine with shelving him as town for now and judging him based off his read accuracy when we get some flips - further if fire is scum then I def think Loki's spewed town by their interaction

Other thing I found odd:

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

a) What are DonEmpire's scummy actions, in your own words?
b) Why are you not voting the slot if this is how you feel? Better yet, why are you not voting anybody?

Why does scum!fire unvote me based on correctly guessing my main and it seems you have as well? Wouldn’t it make way more sense for scum!fire to keep pretending he has no idea who I am? Because there’s absolutely no way I would ever know the difference.

[Loki Dokie]

I mean, someone made a case, or as much as you can make a case at this point of the game on another slot. Isn't that worth reading and either vocally agreeing with or disagreeing or drawing some conclusion from since it's one of the only bits of content in the game so far?

I'm not asking for theses or for everyone to be all caught up or have developed thoughts. It just strikes me as odd when people are present and commenting and posting but ignoring content *especially* at this stage of the game

Not for me it isn’t. I’m actually exhausted rn and this game just literally started, so if you’re town, your vote on me was probably just silly, since you don’t appear to be taking any of that into account but I will reread it tomorrow.

VOTE: Loki

Dann's obvtown here

This vote on me based off this post makes 0 sense. Why does your reading Dann as “obvtown” make my vote scum as opposed to wrong?

And how does town!Roden completely overlook the obvious nuance of this post?

[Loki Dokie]

Why does scum!fire unvote me based on correctly guessing my main and it seems you have as well? Wouldn’t it make way more sense for scum!fire to keep pretending he has no idea who I am? Because there’s absolutely no way I would ever know the difference.

1. you're a tremendously difficult slot for scum to push if you're town, and 2. fire may have felt other players would figure out who you are and expect them to figure it out as well, which becomes suspicious if fire pretends not to

That’s true. But it could also mean he unvoted me for the exact same reason he claimed to: that the reason he voted me is typical for me based on knowledge of my main.

[Loki Dokie]

Loki how would you describe your scumgame? since you are a heavy meta player I'd like to understand what you think are the meta differences between your own town and scumplay

It’s more of what I don’t do as scum as opposed to what I do do. Like I do a lot more obvious townie things as town, especially as the game progresses.

The fact that I already got as many votes as I did, is a strong indicator that I’m town here fwiw because that extremely rarely ever happens to me as scum which Roden would definitely know if he knew who I was.

[Loki Dokie]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

[Loki Dokie]

fwiw im not really a fan of the whole half-secret-alt and half-using-arguments-like "this person would townread me if they knew who i was"

i don't think you can have both and it's difficult to interact with

Fair but I still like doing that. It gives me a lot more info that way.

[Loki Dokie]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

Was my alignment revealed to you at gamestart? If not, there's 2 people you could be I think.

Yeah but I would have sr you regardless, even without that mech.

[Loki Dokie]

LMFAO I was such obvious mafia - it was literally revealed to you!

But I would have sr you even without that like I did Enchant.

[Loki Dokie]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

1) I don't townread Loki, all they did was complain they got wagoned and said they wouldn't have got voted on their other account (who cares?)

2) If anyone is pulling strings it's Dannflor. I also townread Dannflor initially but now I'm worried that mafia could create a mafia UTR quite easily since there are 5 of them, and am slightly paranoid that's happening here. Leaning town on Dannflor though.

3 Explain why you wanted to know whether I thought it was you/Loki or you TMIing Loki as town. How does that help you if you're town?

Damn right I complained because the reasoning for it was shitty.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Roden

[Loki Dokie]

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

He quoted a post of mine that was not even remotely scummy to vote me and his reasoning was his read on Dann but I could also switch to Vivax if you can make a compelling reason for Roden town?

I dislike those two slots the most rn.

Vivax’s great tone either way then suddenly jumping on me when furtive pushed him made no sense to me either.

I actually trust GL way more than Dann here, since he sounds pretty much the same here as in HDP.

[Loki Dokie]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

Who do you think is? Dann?

Idk now.

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

Active Dann could either be town or scum Dann in my experience and I’m leery that he might possibly be pocketing me now.

[Loki Dokie]

Feel currently best about Bell, KT, GL.

[Loki Dokie]

Isn't leery when you're drunk, like leering at people?

I’m not sure how to read Dann but no he isn’t obvtown here. He could be town but I have seen him take control of the game as both alignments.

Obvtown!Dann oth, is far more laid back and usually doesn’t get auto tr this early.

[Loki Dokie]

Feel currently best about Bell, KT, GL.

Put me in there, my scumgame is so bad like you said, you'd have read me by now

Lol. I still don’t think you’re scum but would yeet you before any of those three based off of meta.

Another thing worrying me is that Dann correctly alt guessed me in a previous game but suddenly he knows I’m easily mislimmable town?

He just seems way too confident here on srs. That’s what’s worrying me.

[Loki Dokie]

If team is Dann, Furtive,

Loki

Good luck outposting that

Try again champ.

[Loki Dokie]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

1) I don't townread Loki, all they did was complain they got wagoned and said they wouldn't have got voted on their other account (who cares?)

2) If anyone is pulling strings it's Dannflor. I also townread Dannflor initially but now I'm worried that mafia could create a mafia UTR quite easily since there are 5 of them, and am slightly paranoid that's happening here. Leaning town on Dannflor though.

3 Explain why you wanted to know whether I thought it was you/Loki or you TMIing Loki as town. How does that help you if you're town?

I'm just repeating what I said. Ok

Initially dropped a lazy TR on Loki.
Then decided to turn it into SR instead. I didn't post it. Busy elsewhere.
You latched onto my post and I thought you saw an opportunity to paint me scummy cause I was being waffly on your teammate

Seriously @Vivax, I honestly cannot tell from this if you’re scum here or are smoking some really good drugs,

[Loki Dokie]

I’m not anyone’s teammate and that will become super obvious if I live long enough.

[Loki Dokie]

I’m not anyone’s teammate and that will become super obvious if I live long enough.

Fair

Have time to think about whatever you are going to suggest.

Just saw Furtive's post and see now he's talking about the 'Great tone' part after earlier talking about the 'either way'
Might simply not remember why he even scumread me, but it doesn't make me less suspicious of him.

You were off the charts scummy in Terminator and you’re not here and that was in spite of your predecessors being flaming obvscum.

I don’t like Dann being this confident on Roden, so I’m not trusting him on that but Roden’s sheep on him still does look pretty scummy. I don’t think I want to vote Vivax anymore though. Gut.

[Loki Dokie]

Kind of worried about so many votes on Roden but otoh turned out to not be valid reasoning in a previous game. \_0_/

[Loki Dokie]

I have figured you out Loki, it is part of why I unvoted

I have reasons for being this confident on Roden but it's not something I'm keen to explain until Roden comes back into the thread

Well I’m inclined to trust GL who’s in agreement with you but I want to hear both your explanation and Roden’s response to all of this.

I have played with scum!Roden and he totally wk me in that game but if he knew who I was, I could also see him making a scummy vote on me whether he’s figured that out or not.

Roden’s scumgame is really scary good, so that’s another thing that’s also giving me pause.

[Loki Dokie]

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

[Loki Dokie]

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

I read that game and I think it was mostly the PR claim rather than anything else.

I hard tr him until elo when I realized something was up about Val dying and Roden still living but I was still too pocketed to confidently vote him.

[Loki Dokie]

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

I envy you for that, since I’m obviously the exact opposite.

[Loki Dokie]

If Roden is scum, Dann probably town, since I don’t see him bussing Roden here.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann's obvtown here

No. They aren't.

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

Do you care about getting voted out, or losing? Why do you play?

I play for fun, and I like surviving and winning, it hurts to get voted out and lose.

Aw.

Does Loki ever power woof?
Loki, out yourself.

You mean my main? I think that should be super obvious to you who I am, no?

[Loki Dokie]

I won’t out it but we played together in Pokemon game, where you were milobird.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Roden

So what changed for you? We’re you insisting he was town?

[Loki Dokie]

Weren’t

[Loki Dokie]

Ah andante.

No Andante wasn’t even in Pokemon. I was a cop in that game, I was in a hydra.

[Loki Dokie]

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

I’m pretty sure I’ve never had a dog avatar.

I think I had an animated seahorse once.

[Loki Dokie]

Furtive not being serious means idk what because he was plenty serious in Chromavalon. Being lighthearted is probably a good thing since scum are less likely to be.

[Loki Dokie]

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

No not Wisdom, I was in a hydra with Auro and I think Marashu. I don’t want to out my alt but I’m fine if people figure it out. I had a guilty on Dwlee and they killed me with some weird mech in advance. Wisdom got miselimed with a Pooky gulity, causing us to lose the game. You were also in a hydra: Milobird with notScience. Just look it up Bell. C’mon.

[Loki Dokie]

hmm ok there's 4 other scum we can wagon a different one

VOTE: KittyTacky

Why is Kitty scum?

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

probably yea

I looked at a couple of town and scumgames and his entrance was different dependant on alignment.

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

I don't remember much from Terminator but my vote isn't based on that. I know who's alt you are and my vote is more or less because of that, defensiveness is NAI for you but I know from another alt that AtE isn't. The post I quoted and voted you for gave me AtE vibes and I wanted to see how you'd react. Either you double down and scum tell or you go hard at your self meta and town tell. Though tbh this part is townier than your immediate reaction:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

Realizing that I already know how to play around you as scum but not actually pursuing that is the kind of nuance I was looking for, more or less. You're more likely to avoid looking like your waffling as scum.

You have never seen my scumgame, so this is utter bs. You should have stuck with not knowing who I am sport. Major fos here.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Roden

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Roden

Roden just straight up lied to my face.

[Loki Dokie]

Vivax almost seems... too scummy to be scum

People who seem too scummy to be scum are almost always just scum who played badly.

I will repeat that the string of naked votes on Loki is just HMMMMMMM to me.

Kitty is usually mislimbait and Roden just pretty much scumclaimed.

Can we kill Roden please?

[Loki Dokie]

Despite the name, weren't a Jester in that game, but you were scum

I’ve never played with you as scum and there’s no way in hell you don’t know this is my towngame.

[Loki Dokie]

i think furtive can be town for being funny

he wasn't very funny as scum

maybe more that he seems relaxed here

Fine, I'll look into that. Though tbf even if I put

furtiveglance

in my PoE, deep down I think it would be wiser to eliminate a more obvious scum today.

Really weird comment. I don't agree with RR being 'obvious scum'.

I think they’re both scum and Kitty is the cw to scum.

Kitty is pretty much getting voted for low activity which is totally nia for him.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

So you checked my random town game and decided that whatever it is doesn't match to what I'm doing here?

Mission failed successfully.

If I’m somehow wrong on you, vote Roden. He has never wrongly sr me in any game ever. He’s one of those players like Mastina who never srs me as town.

[Loki Dokie]

I'd say right now I townread Dannflor, Loki, Fire and GuiltyLion.

Bell could go either way, I can definitely see them as scum but that doesn't fit their interactions with my other scumreads so could depend on flips.

RR hasn't done enough to be town but I find Greeting's push on them more sus than they are.

Aristeia could be town but I'm leaning towards mafia.

Greeting, Vivax, and Roden seem like mafia.

I don't have a read on KittyTacky or kuti plz yet.

I agree with this because I didn’t like his Roden progression. First he insists Roden is town for pretty much no reason, then he suddenly jumps on him at e2, to get towncred when Roden flims scum. Now both are voting likely town!Kitty, which makes sense since he’s defending me + easy miselimbait. Scum wants me gone for pretty much the same reason they did in Chromavalon. They know I will eventually catch them all and they’re running scared.

[Loki Dokie]

Okay, well, I think

KittyTacky

is more likely town than scum.

Posts 368, 373 are made by town and exhibit a towny mindset. Plus this registers in my mind as something

KittyTacky

would say. So yeah, he's out of the PoE for Day 1.

Vote Roden, he’s not town.

[Loki Dokie]

Current Roden voters probably all town. Scum:Roden, Vivax, Greeting + ?? Maybe fire?

Kitty/furtive voters likely trying to save him.

[Loki Dokie]

I'd say right now I townread Dannflor, Loki, Fire and GuiltyLion.

Bell could go either way, I can definitely see them as scum but that doesn't fit their interactions with my other scumreads so could depend on flips.

RR hasn't done enough to be town but I find Greeting's push on them more sus than they are.

Aristeia could be town but I'm leaning towards mafia.

Greeting, Vivax, and Roden seem like mafia.

I don't have a read on KittyTacky or kuti plz yet.

I agree with this because I didn’t like his Roden progression. First he insists Roden is town for pretty much no reason, then he suddenly jumps on him at e2, to get towncred when Roden flims scum. Now both are voting likely town!Kitty, which makes sense since he’s defending me + easy miselimbait. Scum wants me gone for pretty much the same reason they did in Chromavalon. They know I will eventually catch them all and they’re running scared.

1) Who are you talking about?
2) Mafia are voting someone who is defending you so they can then vote you? Why don't they just vote you now? I feel like your ego/paranoia is driving your gamesolve, I do townread you but this isn't a great way to think about the game.

Vivax, if Roden is scum here, extremely likely, then he looks like a possible bussing buddy. Sometimes I am totally lost in games, usually larges but other times I’m really good like I was in Chromavalon and I think that this is one of those games.

[Loki Dokie]

Loki if you continue to ignore me and pretend the game doesn't exist I'm just gonna alt out you and post the exact game I'm talking about

You out YOUR alt then. In any case, you have never wrongly sr me in any game ever so you can stop trying to manipulate me with this.

[Loki Dokie]

You know what Roden, go ahead and link whatever game you’re talking about because if it will help me get you limmed, I’m all for it.

[Loki Dokie]

You apparently didn’t read all of Terminator where scum!Koba tried to pull the exact same shit on me.

[Loki Dokie]

So apparently analysing and voting

Roden

should be my priority now. Let's look at his ISO.

Roden

is emotional when town, hates being wrongly accused, fiercely fights back when wrongly accused.

Roden

is much colder when scum.

This shouldn't be hard.

His game start was... bad. I know that he tends to get eliminated Day 1 really often and he's limbait pretty much though. That's why I wanted to cut him some slack and give him a chance to prove himself and why I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game. Nonetheless, it also does feel like a convenient excuse to not make an entrance and sneak back in the game only once it's started.

I noticed that

Loki Dokie

is being unusually aggressive in pursuing

Roden

for essentailly a naked vote in 188. The justification being that:

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

So you checked my random town game and decided that whatever it is doesn't match to what I'm doing here?

Mission failed successfully.

If I’m somehow wrong on you, vote Roden. He has never wrongly sr me in any game ever. He’s one of those players like Mastina who never srs me as town.

This sounds like a very highly personal read and apparently un-outed alts are involved too, so it's also not provable. Sorry

Loki Dokie

, but on the surface this is a bad reason to push a read so strongly. That is a minus for scum

Roden

in my books actually.

Still,

Roden

's attitude towards this game doesn't seem very towny.

Posting just to say I'm not lurking, I've been dealing with a crisis with a friend and I'm more focused on that atm. I'll respond to stuff later tonight.

roden not actually following up feels pretty significantly +scum equity

Ngl I opened up the browser when I got home, quoted the Loki post, and then just smoked and went on youtube for a few hours instead

What game were we both in where I was scum? Or is that just a general read?

Where's the scumhunting energy? All I see is never ending excuses for why there is none.

Disagree wrt Roden. I would do the exact same thing if Mastina was in this game and tried to pull this crap. Roden has never wrongly sr me and whatever game he might possibly be referring to will just help my case. He’s banking on my fear of having my alt outed to justify his bs read on me. But I’m not falling for it.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=88391

Here you go Loki

Thank you for proving my point. How am I even remotely playing similar here to this game? Where was my conviction in pretty much anything I posted? I jumped on wagons I didn’t even believe in ffs.

[Loki Dokie]

I'm becoming increasingly confident on Greeting, and Vivax hasn't really changed my mind, but I think I'll move my vote in the interests of momentum.

Greeting is playing, quite literally, like a robot.

VOTE: Greeting

I’m not opposed because his entrance is actually different based on alignment. I can link a few games but that game Roden linked just furthered my conviction that I’m playing nothing here like I did in that game, so I struggle to see how he thinks this game is similar.

@Roden, explain to me then if I’m wrong on you, how you think my play here even remotely resembles my play in WF?

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=88391

Here you go Loki

Thank you for proving my point. How am I even remotely playing similar here to this game? Where was my conviction in pretty much anything I posted? I jumped on wagons I didn’t even believe in ffs.

...I never said you were playing similarly. I said the exact opposite.

Then I don’t get it, if you think I’m playing differently here, then why are you sr me?

[Loki Dokie]

Are you reading

Well you know (or should know) I’m dyslexic, so maybe spell it out for me?

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

[Loki Dokie]

I think Roden is town now. You’re right Roden, I’m far less likely to do that as scum for obvious reasons because as scum, you obviously don’t care if you miselim.

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

I don't remember much from Terminator but my vote isn't based on that. I know who's alt you are and my vote is more or less because of that, defensiveness is NAI for you but I know from another alt that AtE isn't. The post I quoted and voted you for gave me AtE vibes and I wanted to see how you'd react. Either you double down and scum tell or you go hard at your self meta and town tell. Though tbh this part is townier than your immediate reaction:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

Realizing that I already know how to play around you as scum but not actually pursuing that is the kind of nuance I was looking for, more or less. You're more likely to avoid looking like your waffling as scum.

You have never seen my scumgame, so this is utter bs. You should have stuck with not knowing who I am sport. Major fos here.

This all started because you didn't know I was in White Flag, and I was only bringing it up and linked it because of that. I never said your play was similar to that game, I was looking to see if there

were

any similarities and didn't see any.

Well sorry for misunderstanding. But I think you towntold with that, which is super important in a game with an 8:5 town/scum ratio.

It’s more dangerous to miselim in this game than other games with fewer scum to town ratio and still think Kitty is town here and getting voted for low activity.

[Loki Dokie]

I need to take a break for a while, but this is a reminder to myself to look into

Roden

's scumread of

furtiveglance

.

In Chromavalon, he was transparently manipulative and had several posts demonstrating a scum perspective, which I’m really not seeing here. I’m also mindmelding with a lot of his takes.

[Loki Dokie]

So apparently analysing and voting

Roden

should be my priority now. Let's look at his ISO.

Roden

is emotional when town, hates being wrongly accused, fiercely fights back when wrongly accused.

Roden

is much colder when scum.

This shouldn't be hard.

His game start was... bad. I know that he tends to get eliminated Day 1 really often and he's limbait pretty much though. That's why I wanted to cut him some slack and give him a chance to prove himself and why I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game. Nonetheless, it also does feel like a convenient excuse to not make an entrance and sneak back in the game only once it's started.

I noticed that

Loki Dokie

is being unusually aggressive in pursuing

Roden

for essentailly a naked vote in 188. The justification being that:

VOTE: Greeting

I did a meta dive and based off of that, I think he could be scum here.

So you checked my random town game and decided that whatever it is doesn't match to what I'm doing here?

Mission failed successfully.

If I’m somehow wrong on you, vote Roden. He has never wrongly sr me in any game ever. He’s one of those players like Mastina who never srs me as town.

This sounds like a very highly personal read and apparently un-outed alts are involved too, so it's also not provable. Sorry

Loki Dokie

, but on the surface this is a bad reason to push a read so strongly. That is a minus for scum

Roden

in my books actually.

Still,

Roden

's attitude towards this game doesn't seem very towny.

Posting just to say I'm not lurking, I've been dealing with a crisis with a friend and I'm more focused on that atm. I'll respond to stuff later tonight.

roden not actually following up feels pretty significantly +scum equity

Ngl I opened up the browser when I got home, quoted the Loki post, and then just smoked and went on youtube for a few hours instead

What game were we both in where I was scum? Or is that just a general read?

Where's the scumhunting energy? All I see is never ending excuses for why there is none.

This post is kind of scummy, Hedgeyness is often a scumtell, My reasoning for voting Roden is bad but he isn’t actually townie either. Like wtf?

VOTE: Greeting

[Loki Dokie]

I need to take a break for a while, but this is a reminder to myself to look into

Roden

's scumread of

furtiveglance

.

Didn’t you say in 425 that you didn’t think Roden was scumhunting?

[Loki Dokie]

Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?

I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.

I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.

Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.

If the push on you truly is this “horrible, then why tf wouldn’t you want to address it? If the reasons are bad, debunk them then but all of “this push on me is bad, scum on my wagon” etc, without addressing literally any of it, is really not compelling.

If this actually is in fact a “shitpush”, I think you should be able to explain why.

The push on Kitty otoh actually is bad because he hasn’t actually done anything scummy but first you call RR a “potential deep wolf” for something entirely nia, hedge on Roden and then accuse him of making “excuses” for apparently not scumhunting and then want to look at his furtive case, he made BEFORE furtive unvoted him. Meanwhile, you haven’t argued why any of the reasoning for voting you is bad.

[Loki Dokie]

ok let's say I am wrong about you.

who would you like to kill and why?

VOTE: Furtive

Furtive just misrep'd my play in a past game to justify his scum read on me. What makes it egregious is that we already had a conversation about this game before and doesn't have an excuse for suddenly not remembering the game correctly now.

How long has everyone been playing? Outta curiosity

I used to play a lot but it’s probably been about ~3 years since I did last. My home website went the way of the dodo sadly

A little over a year, but the last time I played in the newbie queue was back in September.

Did I see you fakeclaim Tracker in a game?

I did actually, in Newbie 2070.

Postgame got a bit heated in that one, LOL.

A bit yeah haha, it was a rough spot for town.

He also misread me really badly that game and mindlessly tunneled me. Scum reading me this game before I really do much of anything shows a lack of reassessment or even any caution in making the same mistake again.

I was just chatting about the game in which you fakeclaimed Tracker, it's not why I scumread you.

Oh sorry, I guess I mistakenly assumed that from this post.

[Loki Dokie]

384

[Loki Dokie]

exceedingly fine with a Greeting wagon

Roden, who are you town reading?

Bell
Dann
GL
Kitty
Loki

Bell and GL are more like town leans though

Roden is very likely town for this. While people who have reads that are diametrically opposed to mine can of course also be too, I tend to tr players who are mindmelding with me in general.

[Loki Dokie]

mafia cares about consistency because they have to put effort into faking it because it is something that comes naturally to most town who are just thinking their thoughts normally

holding two opposing thoughts in your brain in short succession is rare for most people

That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re good at it though. That’s how I eventually realized sheep was scum in Forrest Fire. His progression on pretty much anything made 0 sense.

@Greeting can yoiu link a town game of his where you had a similar type of opening as in this game for me please?

Because when I saw that opening, I was struck by in my brief metadive I couldn’t find any towngames with you making a similar kind of entrance but it’s possible you have and I somehow missed it?

[Loki Dokie]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

Extremely incomplete.

[Loki Dokie]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

The first two I kinda get, don't really agree with Dannflor. I don't know where you got Loki being mafia from. They seem very town, their entire gameview is based on mafia trying to get them out. I don't think scum would play like that nor have I ever seen it.

Hey there.
You never get tired of pulling off that fake shit?

Are we reading the same game?

[Loki Dokie]

Loki help me vote Kitty pls it will be fun

No thanks, I prefer to keep my vote on a player whom I think has a much > rand chance of flipping scum not on one who is very likely to flip town.

[Loki Dokie]

Loki Dokie

, you are creating artificial and unnecessary pressure for a

Roden

wagon. It's true that his ISO isn't very towny, but this is not obvscum. If you're town, then take a step back and let him explain himself.

I have a hard time believing Greeting posts this if Roden is town and Greeting is scum. It doesn't feel white-knighty in the least

I did a brief metadive and that entrance was consistent with his scumgames but if he can prove me wrong on that, I’ll consider reacessing.

I never said Greeting was wking Roden? I said he was being extremely hedgey on my Roden push. But even if I were to switch my vote it wouldn’t be on Kitty who I really think is town here and Roden mindmelding on that, only increases my confidence on that read.

Kitty is usually the easiest push in pretty much every game and while he hasn’t posted a lot, I like the content he has posted so far.

[Loki Dokie]

If someone consistently does a specific thing as scum but never as town, occams razor says they’re probably scum. If Greeting can link a towngame disproving this, I’ll reacess.

[Loki Dokie]

Subject: Mini Theme 2264: Fusion Upick | Post Game

True, but in the case of Miller I think it would be to the benefit of the Mafia to out such a role. If Mafia gets miller, they can have a potential 2nd person back up their claim because they received miller as well.

Implying nothing, especially this early in the game. Just an observation.

Isn't Miller a specifically pro-town role? Wiki says is it's just a townie who looks dirty.

Also, if Mafia have a Miller, wouldn't that mean it's a mafia who looks green, and why on Earth would they out that? Unless I misunderstood something.

There's a different thing that interests me here and it's

who

submitted Miller as a pick, since it is bound to influence their role as well. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a Miller.

Greeting apparently doesn’t have a problem being really obvtown either judging from this post.

[Loki Dokie]

Subject: Mini 2260: Achromatic Calamity || Game Over

Galron

, where are you?

Present. I refused to touch a PC, phone or anything over most of the weekend. Well a phone a little bit I think. I was a bachelor all last week, and that makes me a little antsy and throws me out of my usual goings on.

What should I be focusing on in the game so far? I've read a few pages, and I want to stab the Hatters for some reason, maybe because they didn't invite anahit for tea, which would've made for a more pleasant conversation. I'm getting the impression that the Hatters are using colorful language to be intentionally misunderstood. But maybe I'm just not following what they're getting at.

Welcome back! It's good to take a break from everything from time to time.

So far my experience of this game has been rather confusing.

Mad Hatters Tea Party

seems to intentionally keep using overly sophisticated language.

anahit

has somehow managed to make 51 posts, which is more than 25% of all posts in the game. I guess these two players caught the most of my attention so far, but I don't know what to think of it.

Apparently, some players are building an actual case on

Radical Rat

, my RVS vote and I wanna hear that.

Again, look how extremely townie Greeting is here. He’s so believable and genuine.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36081

Okay, he doesn’t make that opening every scumgame but still haven’t found a towngame where he did.

[Loki Dokie]

Checked multiple games now, still no town game with that kind of entrance. Town!Greeting is very townie is pretty much every towngame I looked at and usually asks lots of good questions.

Didn’t notice any weird hegeness or inconsistent posting either but I didn’t really check for that and again. I’m open to Greeting refuting either my case or anyone else’s but so far, his reaction has been not to engage with any of the reasoning.

[Loki Dokie]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

I would serious like to understand how you think it makes an iota of sense that any of us are aligned. It’s extremely obvious that I didn’t like how Dann interacted with me initially and Ari and I are not even on the same page wrt Kitty/Greeting.

If I could be persuaded to switch my vote, it could be to you because in NEP we were pretty much mindmelding on everything and Your play here has been really odd: Like insisting Roden was town, then suddenly putting him at E-2. Then if Greeting’s RR case wasn’t bad enough you decide to sheep it.

So where I’m at, is if I can be persuaded to switch my vote, your iso isn’t exactly pinging me with extreme confidence that you’re actually town here, either.

[Loki Dokie]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

UNVOTE:

I still think you could be scum but your recent posting isn’t horrible so meh.

[Loki Dokie]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

You are obviously unfamiliar with the MOMO ban. My personal opinion is lying about rl is hella stupid irrespective of one’s alignment and yeah strongly disagree with this.

[Loki Dokie]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

You didn’t in NEP.

[Loki Dokie]

For the record I think Vivax is probably town

I still have doubts about fire, but that fish can be fried another time

Why do you think town!Vivax goes from insisting Roden is town to suddenly putting them at e2?

Did you ever explain this? @Vivax?

[Loki Dokie]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

This exchange really intersts me since I’m currently not tr either but they don’t look aligned from this, so want to hear more from this before I revote.

[Loki Dokie]

I agree with that too. One should never lie about either rl or mental health. Whenever rl pr mental/physical health gets brought up, I always believe it but I don’t alignment read it, one way or the other.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Vivax

Thanks for making this super easy.

[Loki Dokie]

Comparing FG behaviour to Loki behaviour
Unlikely aligned from their behaviour towards me

FG being visibly unamused by Greeting
Loki showing understanding

Which one is more likely mafia? Should be FG right? Acting like a misyeet just noped himself.
While Loki is casual about it. Why should it worry a townie?

The trick is in thinking whether not just the players, but also the game could lie to you.
So I invert the apparently obvious conclusion, and voilá

VOTE: Loki Dokie

I prefer to not comment on a rules topic in regards to Greetings posts.

I would seriously love to know in what universe that makes me or ANYONE for that matter, scum?

One bs nonsensical take after the other. This sounds a lot like your play in Terminator.

[Loki Dokie]

Fyi, since I think furtive is probably town here, this looks like a possible chaining of misalims to me. After I flip town, Vivax can then push furtive.

@Dann why is he town? He is literally voting me for being sympathetic to Greeting’s mental health issues, which had absolutely jack to do with why I unvoted.

[Loki Dokie]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

It was rather from observing some people's reactions to me just handing out a TR to you, then rushing a vote on you, then me rethinking the game entirely.
When I feel like I'm being driven to be on a specific person by my surroundings, I start doubting the game state and look in other places.
Scumreading you earned me absence of pressure over townreading you, so I figured that someone was trying to use peer pressure to manipulate me.

I... don't remember anyone townreading me in this game when I jumped in and then switching. As a matter of fact, my impression is that I got widely scumread almost instantly (358, 360).

If I remember correctly, it

Loki Dokie

who pressured others the most into jumping on certain people. The rest didn't really seem like trying to force others to vote me. They just built lengthy cases and that's it.

Care to elaborate?

Pedit: Do you think that

Loki Dokie

is scum for exerting a lot of pressure on the current wagon they're building? I feel like in 406 he might have wanted to bait me into jump on

Roden

without even thinking if it's a good read just so I could earn myself a townread in his eyes. What kind of town play is this?

I really did think Roden was scum pulling a scum!Koba on me because I completely and stupidly misconstrued his posts.

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

I don't remember much from Terminator but my vote isn't based on that. I know who's alt you are and my vote is more or less because of that, defensiveness is NAI for you but I know from another alt that AtE isn't. The post I quoted and voted you for gave me AtE vibes and I wanted to see how you'd react. Either you double down and scum tell or you go hard at your self meta and town tell. Though tbh this part is townier than your immediate reaction:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

Realizing that I already know how to play around you as scum but not actually pursuing that is the kind of nuance I was looking for, more or less. You're more likely to avoid looking like your waffling as scum.

You have never seen my scumgame, so this is utter bs. You should have stuck with not knowing who I am sport. Major fos here.

This all started because you didn't know I was in White Flag, and I was only bringing it up and linked it because of that. I never said your play was similar to that game, I was looking to see if there

were

any similarities and didn't see any.

@Vivax, is there some reason you decided to completely ignore this?

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36602

scum!Vivax


https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36602

town!Vivax

[Loki Dokie]

mafia cares about consistency because they have to put effort into faking it because it is something that comes naturally to most town who are just thinking their thoughts normally

holding two opposing thoughts in your brain in short succession is rare for most people

Result: The 'nonsensical' case on Loki

You are playing similar here to Terminator. Did you even click Roden’s link where he said he found no similarities in this game and White Flag? But you just completely ignore that which makes absolutely no sense if you’re town and you made the very same horrific pushes in Terminator.

So when I flip town, are you going push furtive with the I was wrong on Loki. so furtive has to be scum argument?

[Loki Dokie]

mafia cares about consistency because they have to put effort into faking it because it is something that comes naturally to most town who are just thinking their thoughts normally

holding two opposing thoughts in your brain in short succession is rare for most people

Result: The 'nonsensical' case on Loki

You are playing similar here to Terminator. Did you even click Roden’s link where he said he found no similarities in this game and White Flag? But you just completely ignore that which makes absolutely no sense if you’re town and you made the very same horrific pushes in Terminator.

So when I flip town, are you going push furtive with the I was wrong on Loki. so furtive has to be scum argument?

I will do that

Throwing more information at me is meant to throw me off I suppose. I like finding a clear cut angle such as that one, but you have the best reasons for disagreeing obviously.
I don't think that revisiting my Terminator meta here helps me to further the current purpose.

Yes, God forbid anyone tries to “throw off” your absolutely shitty scumread of me.

If I didn’t think you were likely scum from this, I’d swear you were trolling me with this.

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

I don't remember much from Terminator but my vote isn't based on that. I know who's alt you are and my vote is more or less because of that, defensiveness is NAI for you but I know from another alt that AtE isn't. The post I quoted and voted you for gave me AtE vibes and I wanted to see how you'd react. Either you double down and scum tell or you go hard at your self meta and town tell. Though tbh this part is townier than your immediate reaction:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

Realizing that I already know how to play around you as scum but not actually pursuing that is the kind of nuance I was looking for, more or less. You're more likely to avoid looking like your waffling as scum.

You have never seen my scumgame, so this is utter bs. You should have stuck with not knowing who I am sport. Major fos here.

This all started because you didn't know I was in White Flag, and I was only bringing it up and linked it because of that. I never said your play was similar to that game,

I was looking to see if there

were

any similarities and didn't see any.

@Vivax, is there some reason you decided to completely ignore this?

Vivax deflected this post that Roden made and I am pointing out for the second time now. I’m obviously questioning why he is ignoring this and not my link to his Terminator scumgame.

I’m with RR, not moving this vote.

[Loki Dokie]

Roden literally stated he could find

NO similarities

between my play here and White Flag -

where I was scum

. I’m emphasizing this in an extremely unlikely world where Vivax could actually be woefully obtuse town but I seriously doubt it.

[Loki Dokie]

Ok chill with the caps.

It’s actually the [ size= ] [ / size ] but okay.

[Loki Dokie]

I do scumread Vivax. I feel like they're aspiring to be weird town but aren't getting that authenticity.

Yeah and the unpopular takes nonsense as town didn’t happen in NEP, there he actually had popular and

good/b] takes. And eventhough he blew up town!Penguin, it still helped us win because it led me and Dwlee to scum!VP Baltar.

[Loki Dokie]

oh is it

this?

yeah. I used just bold in my recent post instead.

[Loki Dokie]

One thing to note is that regular VCA isn't as useful with 5/13 being mafia. So if Vivax flips mafia it doesn't clear the competing wagons in the same way.

Spoiler:

game setup - The Turing Test

here is the md thread of the setup. it will also be explained below. pm or dm me if you have any questions.

setup:

~

8 human subjects (the town)

~

5 malevolent AIs (the mafia)

mechanics:

day 1 plays as normal, with the players voting someone to eliminate.
~ if the person voted out is a townie, nobody scores any points.
~ if the person voted out is mafia, the town scores 1 point.

the mafia does not have a factional kill. instead, each night, starting from n1, scum must choose two players to participate in the turing test the next day. the only requirement is that the two people participating are 1 townie and 1 mafia.

from day 2 and on, there is no votes to eliminate; instead, each day there is a turing test. the two players selected by the mafia are announced and removed from the game, but not flipped. the votes are locked between the two selected players, and the living players must vote for the person in the pair they believe to be mafia.
~ if a mafia member is voted out, town scores 1 point.
~ if a townie is voted out, mafia scores 1 point.

after one of the two has been hammered, the alignments of the selected players are revealed, and the game goes back to the night phase.

the first faction to reach 3 points wins.

both the day yeet and the mafia factional night action are mandatory.

if a hammer is not achieved by deadline, ties will be broken by seniority. if the mafia doesn't submit their action by deadline, i will randomize it for them.

sample role pm's:

welcome,

playername

. you are a

human subject

.

abilities:

~ you have no special abilities.

win conditions:

~ you win when human subjects achieve 3 points.

the game thread is here. please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

welcome,

playername

. you are a

malevolent AI

.

abilities:

~ your fellow AIs are

playername

,

playername

,

playername

and

playername

. as long as you are in the game, you may talk to them in the AI pt, located here.
~ during each night, you must select two players, 1 human and 1 AI, to participate in the turing test the following day.

win condition:

~ you win when malevolent AIs achieve 3 points.

the game thread is here. please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name, or by posting in your pt.

Yes, that’s why I think it’s extremely scum indicative that he’s hardpushing me, because with no nks, this is probably his best hope of getting rid of me.

[Loki Dokie]

One thing to note is that regular VCA isn't as useful with 5/13 being mafia. So if Vivax flips mafia it doesn't clear the competing wagons in the same way.

Spoiler:

game setup - The Turing Test

here is the md thread of the setup. it will also be explained below. pm or dm me if you have any questions.

setup:

~

8 human subjects (the town)

~

5 malevolent AIs (the mafia)

mechanics:

day 1 plays as normal, with the players voting someone to eliminate.
~ if the person voted out is a townie, nobody scores any points.
~ if the person voted out is mafia, the town scores 1 point.

the mafia does not have a factional kill. instead, each night, starting from n1, scum must choose two players to participate in the turing test the next day. the only requirement is that the two people participating are 1 townie and 1 mafia.

from day 2 and on, there is no votes to eliminate; instead, each day there is a turing test. the two players selected by the mafia are announced and removed from the game, but not flipped. the votes are locked between the two selected players, and the living players must vote for the person in the pair they believe to be mafia.
~ if a mafia member is voted out, town scores 1 point.
~ if a townie is voted out, mafia scores 1 point.

after one of the two has been hammered, the alignments of the selected players are revealed, and the game goes back to the night phase.

the first faction to reach 3 points wins.

both the day yeet and the mafia factional night action are mandatory.

if a hammer is not achieved by deadline, ties will be broken by seniority. if the mafia doesn't submit their action by deadline, i will randomize it for them.

sample role pm's:

welcome,

playername

. you are a

human subject

.

abilities:

~ you have no special abilities.

win conditions:

~ you win when human subjects achieve 3 points.

the game thread is here. please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

welcome,

playername

. you are a

malevolent AI

.

abilities:

~ your fellow AIs are

playername

,

playername

,

playername

and

playername

. as long as you are in the game, you may talk to them in the AI pt, located here.
~ during each night, you must select two players, 1 human and 1 AI, to participate in the turing test the following day.

win condition:

~ you win when malevolent AIs achieve 3 points.

the game thread is here. please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name, or by posting in your pt.

Yes, that’s why I think it’s extremely scum indicative that he’s hardpushing me, because with no nks, this is probably his best hope of getting rid of me.

It's actually kind of sort of a double NK? Regardless of who "wins" the test, you do get removed from the game that night. I clarified this with Datisi prior to joining the game.

Oh really? I guess I misunderstood then, I thought it was like a gladiate.

[Loki Dokie]

Yeah, it's weird. When the next day starts, they're already "dead," but unflipped, and then we do the vote posthumously, with the point awarded after the flips.

Spoiler:

the mafia does not have a factional kill. instead, each night, starting from n1, scum must choose two players to participate in the turing test the next day. the only requirement is that the two people participating are 1 townie and 1 mafia.

from day 2 and on, there is no votes to eliminate; instead, each day there is a turing test. the two players selected by the mafia are announced and removed from the game, but not flipped. the votes are locked between the two selected players, and the living players must vote for the person in the pair they believe to be mafia.
~ if a mafia member is voted out, town scores 1 point.
~ if a townie is voted out, mafia scores 1 point.

So this just makes me all the more suspicious on Vivax.

[Loki Dokie]

Do you believe I could be a malevolent machine? Or is that just a potential you see while I play text based games? A magnitude of an end of two different spectrums with a common denominator in the middle?

Can you translate that into English for me? Thanks.

[Loki Dokie]

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

I don't like this angle. It seems you are accusing someone of not pushing Dannflor, but you don't seem focused enough on Dannflor yourself. You should think he's mafia if you think that it's a valid reason to attack KittyTacky. Cue for TMI and the Ari/Dann pair being correct.

I don’t understand where you’re getting Ari’s sr Dann from this? But I do think this push on Kitty may be a bit much. It’s not like Kitty has been actively campaigning for his lim and Kitty only made this response in reaction to Ari pushing him.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: DannFlor

Interested into seeing what Loki thinks of a wagon on Dannflor.
It's not on Loki, so it can't be that bad.

Why do you suddenly care so much what I think? What I don’t understand is if you disliked Ari’s post so much, why you’re voting Dann?

[Loki Dokie]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

This post bothered me when I was reading earlier. Besides the soft accusation that Greeting is faking/lying about having a condition, these posts are trying to frame it like he's using it as an excuse to avoid getting scum read when it seems really clear that he isn't doing that at all. He's explaining his behavior and asking people to keep that in mind when trying to read him, but he never claims that it's town indicative for him when certain behavior patterns get triggered. At most, he says he's more controlled as scum and less self-conscious as town, which are like...

really

basic tells for anyone. He doesn't even say he's guaranteed to act a certain way as either alignment, just that he puts in effort to do so.

Obviously mods get final say but I don't see any loopholes here, Greeting can be telling the truth and still be scum.

I'm gonna drop this now, but safe to say my opinion is that people shouldn't bring IRL circumstances into a social deduction game, especially if some people think lying about IRL circumstances is wrong (or against site rules apparently). Because the chain of logic is 1) my IRL circumstances are making me play weirdly/scummily, 2) I can't lie about this according to the rules, 3) I am therefore town. That's just how I see it.

I agree with Roden, I don’t think Greeting was doing that.

[Loki Dokie]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

It's not irrelevant to what you think of Dannflor
It's not irrelevant to think about Dannflor's alignment
Unless your plan is to withhold information on his alignment, is it that?

?????

[Loki Dokie]

Do you believe I could be a malevolent machine? Or is that just a potential you see while I play text based games? A magnitude of an end of two different spectrums with a common denominator in the middle?

One consequence:

Yes and no is a valid answer

You asked me this and I still don’t understand anything after the first question.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Vivax

I'm not moving for the rest of the day, this needs to go.

can you give me like a brief summary of why Vivax is scum

I see you've been asserting that he's scummy, but I don't know if I know what your reasoning is for why he's mafia. 520 is probably the main point I see against him, why is that inconsistency more likely to come from scum? like why does scum!Vivax throw a vote while openly saying he didn't check if it was a hammer (and would scum!Vivax have checked to see if it was a hammer?), and then 180 immediately afterwards?

like yeah it's weird, hard to make sense of, but why is it scummy?

Everything he posts is designed to be distracting or confusing. I don't believe a single word that's come out of his mouth all game, and now he's sussing people for.... Believing mental illness claims?

I also do not believe he wins a 1v1 against anyone, and I think scum knows this too, so they won't test him. Making today our one and only opportunity to get rid of him.

You don‘t seem to be in the best of moods, Batman. Or was it math man?

Happiness can be learned, not bought

Holding grudges doesn‘t help

Let me know when/if you plan to make posts that make sense.

[Loki Dokie]

This is KT's first post with suspicion;

I don't like the naked votes on Lokie Dokie.

atp in time the only people who had voted for Loki Dokie are Dannflor and Fireisredsir, fire had unvoted at this point.

~ 3 hours later - Roden votes for Loki Dokie 188

KT comes back and reiterates his position here:

I will repeat that the string of naked votes on Loki is just HMMMMMMM to me.

which is incongruent with:

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't see how you can suspect naked Loki voters and also be null on someone who fits your criteria.

When I press KT on which Loki voters he suspects, his response is:

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

Which implies that he is scumreading one of the other loki voters for their content - but he hasn't actually explained specifically what content he is suspecting.

I further push him to be specific about who he is scumreading at he responds with:

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

I'm not heavily scumreading the Loki voters. And explain how is it a contradiction?

like um

which loki voters are you exactly sussing?

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

name names

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

Now this is weird to me because

(1) he's given absolutely no indication prior to this point that Dannflor is a person of interest or suspect for him.

There's no indication in his iso that he suspects Dannflor at all.

(2) in fact he even sheeps Dannflor with this vote:

Dear God, this whole "I don't get scumread" thing is insufferable.
I don't think it's necessarily scummy, because the same thing happened somewhat in Terminator, but it IS obnoxious and makes the game way harder to follow for anyone else.


Anyway,
VOTE: Greeting
Ignoring the actual substance of posts in favor of superficial "tells" is probably as scummy as it's gonna get D1.

Did a reread of the whole game so far, yeah I can sheep this.
VOTE: Greeting

(3) all of his responses to me feel manufactured on the spot and not part of an actual thought process to find scum. I would guess that his initial comment about the Loki voters wasn't real suspicion and really just playing on Loki's extreme sensitivity to being suspected to try to pocket Loki. Which is why he is having such a hard time actually showing any thought process that involves actually pushing or suspecting any of the people who naked voted Loki to begin with.

It’s possible I could be wrong on Kitty but none of this is something I haven’t seen from town!Kitty, so it’s not convincing me for that reason alone. I think Kitty trying to push someone who’s pushing me is something I’ve seen him do before as scum.

Kitty is a player whose posts often don’t make sense irrespective of alignment.

[Loki Dokie]

Bell's simpler, if he's posting then he's town, if not then he's scum. I see this get said every game he's in and I haven't seen it proven wrong yet. His activity has been somewhere in the middle this game so far though, so he's just a town lean.

I would kinda expect Bell to post more than he has so far tbh

in Shakespeare he posted a lot as scum and won the game off it

Town!Bell has real genuine thoughts. Scum!Bell is just wooden and just posts word salads.

[Loki Dokie]

Sowwy masta Loki, would you like another shushush UwU?

Fine, if you want to ask me questions I can’t answer because I don’t have a clue what you’re saying.

[Loki Dokie]

Vivax is mafia for me, and that kind of "yeah I guess I'll vote KittyTacky, if you guys INSIST", seemed very mafia. I just don't know whether it's a scum/scum interaction or not. In isolation KittyTacky is definitely sus, but could go either way.

Well, I agree it’s suss irrespective of what Kitty is. He talks so much about conviction then just suddenly gives that up without explaining his reasoning.

Wrt to GL’s question, Vivax made a fuckton of sense in NEP which I’ve already linked. That’s how I knew he was obvtown in that. He was bleeding obvtown to me straight out of the gate.

[Loki Dokie]

669 is a decent scumcase and probably my favourite of Vivax's content all game. Which makes me lean towards scum/scum, plus I was already leaning that way earlier after that weird vote on Dannflor.

Yeah, if I’m actually wrong on Kitty, this would probably be the most compelling argument to me based off my experience playing with him.

Yeah that Dannflor vote made absolutely no sense. I also wonder why Kitty would single out Dann who did a 180 on me when it’s Vivax who has continued to push me not Dann.

@Kitty, why aren’t you suspicious of Vivax?

[Loki Dokie]

Bell's simpler, if he's posting then he's town, if not then he's scum. I see this get said every game he's in and I haven't seen it proven wrong yet. His activity has been somewhere in the middle this game so far though, so he's just a town lean.

I would kinda expect Bell to post more than he has so far tbh

in Shakespeare he posted a lot as scum and won the game off it

Town!Bell has real genuine thoughts. Scum!Bell is just wooden and just posts word salads.

Bell has done nothing that constitutes 'good townposting' for me so far. Firmly in the scumpool for me.

Conversely, I was impressed by Fireisredsir's 643 - it showed a town pov and it fits with their gameplay so far.

Don’t see what you’re seeing wrt to Bell but will reread but yeah, I also really liked that post by fire. It clearly demonstrates a town perspective.

[Loki Dokie]

@Kitty, I would really like your read on Vivax. Can we not run him up before this gets answered please?

[Loki Dokie]

Vivax is mafia for me, and that kind of "yeah I guess I'll vote KittyTacky, if you guys INSIST", seemed very mafia. I just don't know whether it's a scum/scum interaction or not. In isolation KittyTacky is definitely sus, but could go either way.

Well, I agree it’s suss irrespective of what Kitty is. He talks so much about conviction then just suddenly gives that up without explaining his reasoning.

Wrt to GL’s question, Vivax made a fuckton of sense in NEP which I’ve already linked. That’s how I knew he was obvtown in that. He was bleeding obvtown to me straight out of the gate.

The entire town was beast level honestly. Didn't have to do much save exploding on the wrong person

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200

You also made a great deal of sense in that game too. I’m very certain I would not have needed a translator to understand any of your posts in that game.

[Loki Dokie]

Vivax

is not getting concerned or even annoyed about the pressure he's having right now. He does seem like a pretty capable player overall though. I'll need to look into one of his scum games.

I must say that this game does feel very meta-based in general too.

Reactions to being voted are often nai, he’s making reads and votes that make little sense. He literally voted me for being sympathetic to your mental health issues, he claimed to dislike Ari’s post but voted Dann. He’s making nonsensical reads and pushes just like he did in Terminator but we apparently can’t get him limmed because this playerlist is somehow blind.

[Loki Dokie]

If KittyTacky is scum here then I would suspect they are being actively sacrificed by scum.

Yes, there is very little resistance to his lim, so yeah I suspect if he’s scum he’s definitely being bussed and if town, easy miselimbait.

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

Committing to a full reread tomorrow. Apologies for my absence, I’ve been without service and phone posting much of the weekend. I’m not longer hot on the Greeting wagon.

GL, I’m acknowledging your response to me and my initial reaction is disagreement on your reasons for townreading Roden. But I’ll give a more thorough response on reread.

Dann why does scum!Roden link my scumgame and town clear me for it? That’s not a wk, that’s actual evidence.

[Loki Dokie]

kuti has 32 posts and i counted like, maybe 2 opinions total

hi kuti i would like to hear some more opinions plz

If I remember correctly, you really like to base your reads off meta. I have played with

kutiplz

on MU and my impression is that they sound no different to what they did in the games I've played with them on that site.

ive looked at a few of their games and the tone is similar yes but the level of content is not

So you think they could be scum then?

[Loki Dokie]

Loki just because I don't agree with your choice of who to lim today does not mean that I am blind.

If you have a reason to think Kitty is town here, I am happy to hear you out.

If you are correct that vivax is scum, we will eventually have the opportunity to eliminate him.

Idk what to think rn but Dann is right, whatever he is, there’s very little resistance to his lim. I want to hear his reasons on why is Dann the most suss vote on me but Vivax votes me for sympathizing with Greeting’s mental health issues pushes Dann > you for disliking your post, so I want him to explain all that but whatever Kitty is, Dann is right. Scum is clearly fine with his lim’

We don’t get anymore elims. Scum picks one townie and one mafia and they are removed from the game, then we vote on their alignment - kind’ve like a dead gladiate which scum decides.

[Loki Dokie]

So the way I see it, if Kitty is coming from a townie mindset. Vivax ought to be the vote on my slot that should ping him the most, not Dann, for beyond obvious reasons.

I think Vivax is scum irrespective of what Kitty is, which is why my vote is on him.

At least one third of his posts are troll posts and I’m not including the ones I need a translator to understand.

[Loki Dokie]

I'd rather vote Bell than KT but I want Bell to check in first, voting out someone who isn't here always feels a bit wrong

Idk what to make of Bell. I can’t obvtown them which is concerning but they do have some content that might be townie but most of its fluff and does sound kind’ve wooden.

Thing is wrt to GL’s theory, if Bell is actually scum here and scum wanted to bus, they would most likely bus Bell because he absolutely hates rolling scum and would likely beg to be put out of his misery.

[Loki Dokie]

I'm not sold on Vivax especially if Greeting is town, for reasons I've said

I could vote Bell if we're not doing KT, but I also still think KT is scum and kinda surprised people aren't jumping on him after he said he was demoralized because this is a mountainous setup, to me that just felt like such an awkward self defense

Kitty was never demoralized in Schadd’s game. I don’t even know how he feels about playing either alignment. Kitty is always awkward, so that’s totally nai for him.

[Loki Dokie]

Gun to head, I'd pick Kitty over Bell, but I still would much rather Vivax.

@Vivax, give us some reads. both town and scum with explanations.

I think the very fact that he continues to make unreadable posts and keeps trolling me, in addition to everything I and others have already stated, doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that I’m wrong here.

[Loki Dokie]

I think Loki, Greeting, GuiltyLion, Fire and Roden are 5 of 7 other town.

KittyTacky, Kuti plz, Aristeia, Dannflor, Radical Rat probably has 2 town (or 3 if I townread a mafia).

Bell and Vivax are both mafia.

What does everyone else think?

Or do you not want to say?

I’m still on the fence with Greeting but agree on Fire and Roden.

Of your second line, I probably like RR. Dann. Kuti best but I honestly don’t know yet.

My most confident trs are GL, you and fire, probably RR, Dann as well. \_0_/

Still unsure about Bell. My only confident sr right now is Vivax

[Loki Dokie]

@Bell who do you townread?

[Loki Dokie]

@Bell who do you townread?

Me, Dann, GL to a lesser extent. you to a lesser lesser extent with power woof vibes.

After that take your pick. I dunno.

Tunnelling isn’t at all unusual for me other than I’m far far more likely to do that as town.

[Loki Dokie]

Think Bell is town from these posts.

[Loki Dokie]

I've really been looking for potential scum theatre because I *really* think the go-to for a large scum team is to ham it up. But I might be lookin gfor stuff that's not there and the setup itself probably changes what my assumptions should be.

the set-up discourages D1 bussing via the free point for town if scum is limmed D1 though right? And then I have been thinking being "obv-town" doesn't really help scum all that much cause if you get put up for a test people are gonna wonder why mafia put "obvious town" in there. So I'm not sure strong distancing is actually super effective here, scum probably ideally want to have a couple members who are influential enough to each shape one of the Turing test days towards where they want it.

Well it would depend on whether scum is more interested in saving themselves as opposed to killing obvtown, right? If they want to save themselves, they’d be far more likely to select townies who are more easily miselimable but if they want to get rid of obvtown badly enough, I could also see scum sacrificing weaker players to make that happen, because unlike a traditional gladiate, both of them die and are removed from the game.

[Loki Dokie]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a lot more to gain keeping his vote on me

and bussing me,

rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

Wtf?

[Loki Dokie]

All I know is that my gut reaction to the Vivax wagon is disgust

VOTE: KittyTacky

Based on what?

Like this doesn’t convince me of anything.

[Loki Dokie]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a

lot more to gain keeping his vote on me and bussing me

, rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

Screams internally

A scum can bus a townie too? As in, throw under the bus?

That’s more generally known as a “shitpush” not a “bus”.

[Loki Dokie]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a

lot more to gain keeping his vote on me and bussing me

, rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

Screams internally

A scum can bus a townie too? As in, throw under the bus?

I just checked on the wiki and no, I'm wrong. Just substitute "throw under the bus" with "bus". That's what I meant.

The more you know.

I just checked that link and it doesn’t mention anything about that?

[Loki Dokie]

replacing Greeting. deadline will be frozen at 24 hours remaining if i don't find a replacement until then.

Not a fan of this sudden replace out. Could my initial sr of Greeting have been right?

[Loki Dokie]

Fire is whatever.

Roden is whatever.

Helpful

[Loki Dokie]

exceedingly fine with a Greeting wagon

Roden, who are you town reading?

Bell
Dann
GL
Kitty
Loki

Bell and GL are more like town leans though

1 maf in this list and it's Kitty I'd guess

First post of yours I don’t actually hate.

So what changed?

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

for now. In Terminator, Vivax never stopped sounding scummy.

[Loki Dokie]

i guess i don't really feel like town is blocking successfully because i don't feel like either of the wagons are townblock-driven

It’s very helpful in most games where scum are no more than 25-33% of the playerlist.

But with an 8-5 ratio, it’s extremely difficult to feel as confident as I usually would doing that.

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.11

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [6]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Vulture, Vivax

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky, Roden

Bell [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Idk what to do, I was lock convinced on Vivax!scum now I’m not anymore. Don’t know what to make of Kitty because don’t recall this play from him as either alignment.

Iffy on Bell, he’s not obvtown to me but there’s enough content so don’t know?

[Loki Dokie]

game setup - The Turing Test

here is the md thread of the setup. it will also be explained below. pm or dm me if you have any questions.

setup:

~

8 human subjects (the town)

~

5 malevolent AIs (the mafia)

mechanics:

day 1 plays as normal, with the players voting someone to eliminate.
~ if the person voted out is a townie, nobody scores any points.
~ if the person voted out is mafia, the town scores 1 point.

the mafia does not have a factional kill. instead, each night, starting from n1, scum must choose two players to participate in the turing test the next day. the only requirement is that the two people participating are 1 townie and 1 mafia.

from day 2 and on, there is no votes to eliminate; instead, each day there is a turing test. the two players selected by the mafia are announced and removed from the game, but not flipped. the votes are locked between the two selected players, and the living players must vote for the person in the pair they believe to be mafia.
~ if a mafia member is voted out, town scores 1 point.
~ if a townie is voted out, mafia scores 1 point.

after one of the two has been hammered, the alignments of the selected players are revealed, and the game goes back to the night phase.

the first faction to reach 3 points wins.

both the day yeet and the mafia factional night action are mandatory.

if a hammer is not achieved by deadline, ties will be broken by seniority. if the mafia doesn't submit their action by deadline, i will randomize it for them.

sample role pm's:

welcome,

playername

. you are a

human subject

.

abilities:

~ you have no special abilities.

win conditions:

~ you win when human subjects achieve 3 points.

the game thread is here. please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name.

welcome,

playername

. you are a

malevolent AI

.

abilities:

~ your fellow AIs are

playername

,

playername

,

playername

and

playername

. as long as you are in the game, you may talk to them in the AI pt, located here.
~ during each night, you must select two players, 1 human and 1 AI, to participate in the turing test the following day.

win condition:

~ you win when malevolent AIs achieve 3 points.

the game thread is here. please confirm your role by replying to this pm with your role name, or by posting in your pt.

@Vivax? What that’s correct.

[Loki Dokie]

i think that even if kitty is scum then there's scum on that wagon

That would mean you and Loki are both town and Vulture is the scum on my wagon

why vulture

That slot has had two really suspicious replace outs, so I’m not convinced it can’t be scum.

[Loki Dokie]

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

What do people make of this?

[Loki Dokie]

So, mafia picks one of theirs and one of town to go against each other every day, from Day2 on?
Interesting mech

It’s not a gladiate though because both slots are killed and removed from the game and then people get to vote for on their alignment and if correct get points for it or something.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann is a very strong player irrespective of alignment. I doubt very much scum would kill him here unless he’s town.

We obviously shouldn’t rush this but Dann might have possibly been killed for his reads and scum is probably fine with sacrificing Kuti to get rid of him.

Not 100% wedded to this but I think if scum wanted to wifom us with this, they probably leave scum!Dann for later.

[Loki Dokie]

If KittyTacky is scum here then I would suspect they are being actively sacrificed by scum.

And like this is Dann's only post that's vaguely related to sorting Kitty (going off of name-searching in iso, correct if wrong). This post doesn't come across as actually caring about what KittyTacky is or isn't or trying to really figure it out.

Hard disagree with this. Some scum had to have bussed for towncred. The actual number though is anybody’s guess.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann is a very strong player irrespective of alignment. I doubt very much scum would kill him here unless he’s town.

We obviously shouldn’t rush this but Dann might have possibly been killed for his reads and scum is probably fine with sacrificing Kuti to get rid of him.

Not 100% wedded to this but I think if scum wanted to wifom us with this, they probably leave scum!Dann for later.

I consider myself to pretty much be a near genius at translating wifom. If this happened later in the game, it might possibly point to Dann being mafia but a widely tr scum being sacrificed n1, just no.

It makes no sense for scum to kill Dann n1 if scum. Why would they when scum!Dann could just very easily carry the game and wifom town into losing?

[Loki Dokie]

Subject: Micro 1058: Is This Thing Loaded? -- Game Over!

OK I'm rereading the game and I don't want to put out a half ass reads list because like there's barely any content that AI related.

I just feel like these group of people are giving me townie vibes:

Dunn ( I have explained)
Alex ( I like their push on me and other players, they have a solvey vibe)

Not great vibes
Ph0neix (their defense over my tr on Dunn made no sense)
GuiltyLion (feels like they are trying to pocket me, not good vibes)
Bambi (that fake derp slip)

Everyone else: null.

I would have expanded but like there's barely any content. I'm sorry if wrong.

Look Kuti actually bothered to make a reads list in their towngame.

[Loki Dokie]

Roden, if you're town and Dann is never scum here, why do you think mafia put mafia!kuti against town!Dann instead of you

I like Roden’s posts today, they make a lot of sense. Scum is most likely bussers on Kitty, sheeps or coasters on Kitty or other wagons.

We have 4 scum left, Kitty was likely bussed to give at least one if not more scum towncred. And it probably was coordinated which is why - to answer Roden’s question - he didn’t put up much of a fight.

[Loki Dokie]

from day 2 and on, there is no votes to eliminate; instead, each day there is a turing test. the two players selected by the mafia are announced and removed from the game, but not flipped. the votes are locked between the two selected players, and the living players must vote for the person in the pair they believe to be mafia.
~ if a mafia member is voted out, town scores 1 point.
~ if a townie is voted out, mafia scores 1 point.

after one of the two has been hammered, the alignments of the selected players are revealed, and the game goes back to the night phase.

the first faction to reach 3 points wins.

I’m not going to vote yet but apparently we must vote for who we think is mafia, so my vote is spiritually on Kuti.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann is a very strong player irrespective of alignment. I doubt very much scum would kill him here unless he’s town.

We obviously shouldn’t rush this but Dann might have possibly been killed for his reads and scum is probably fine with sacrificing Kuti to get rid of him.

Not 100% wedded to this but I think if scum wanted to wifom us with this, they probably leave scum!Dann for later.

Killed for his reads....you're saying Bell smoked Dannflor.

Or future reads? He was acting like town leader and I think scum wanted him gone. Unlike GL or me, there was enough suspicion on him, to also make us wifom the kill.

[Loki Dokie]

I dunno I need to sleep on it and really articulate it but I have this knawing fear that Dann is the deep wolf and furtive/Vivax/fire/Loki/Ari is basically the town bloc and Rat and Roden are trying to go for this "the simple explanation is correct kuti is kafia" tack with like NO apparent doubt that Dann might be scum, to try to get it back to even. Why would mafia be ok with risking going down 2-0, at that point town could fluke into a win on any of the last three tests it's such a dangerous position. If I were mafia and down 1-0 I'd be putting forward what I thought was one of our best chances to win a point

If Dann is a deep wolf, then why kill him n1?

[Loki Dokie]

I do see your point though but unless scumteam is extremely weak, why does scum kill it’s most active player n1? Also Kuti is a player without much readable meta. I couldn’t find any scumgames, so if scum, they’re the perfect player to wifom us with.

Only thing bothers me is I really don’t understand some of his reads, Roden in particular. Maybe if Dann is town, it could possibly have been done to frame some slots? Idk.

[Loki Dokie]

Subject: Micro 1058: Is This Thing Loaded? -- Game Over!

So who knows each other from the playerlist and what's yall experience levels and what not.

Links to old games as both alignments would be appreciated. I can do the same as well.

Spoiler:

I know no one from this player list. As for experience, I played a few games here a couple of years back and that's about it.

Games in question:

[url=ttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81548]Newbie 1973[/url] - Town
Newbie 1976 - Scum
Newbie 1983 - Town
Newbie 1988 - Town
Newbie 1991 - Scum

The newest game on this list is 2+ years old by now, so I'm not sure how relevant these will be in regard to my current playstyle, cause it's bound to have changed since my last game, despite not having played at all for the last 2 years. Still, I'm pretty sure there's useful stuff in there.

What about you?

I have played around year. Started in 2021.

I'm not going to link my one mafia game in MU because I'm ashamed of my extreme ate and deeply embarrassed by it. My other homesite is webdip and I can link those games with my iso:

First time randing mafia, multiball, I end gamed into a draw (1-1-1)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... f=4&t=3784 game link
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... sharamSabi my iso

Second mafia rand, normal, mafia sweep and won

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... f=4&t=3915 game link
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... sharamSabi my iso

Here are my mu town games:
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35684
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35591
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36308
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36135
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35929

I'm Kuti plz in mu

Apparently they do have some scumgames, so hopefully these links will help.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=19042

Dann scumgame. I think if Dann does flip scum, Roden could be a buddy.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=19042

Dann scumgame. I think if Dann does flip scum, Roden could be a buddy.

Subject: Micro 1022 | Purgatory | 80s music | Game Over

i gotta get to work and i've only read 5.5 pages, so im refraining from posting anything meaningful ("meaningful") until i catch up
just know i'm around and i'll be back in a few hours

random thought: but I think overall I tend to make these types of posts more as scum, I think i feel more guilt for not producing content and like there's a ticking time bomb of people starting to suspect me for lurking or what have you

this is purely anecdotal and only relevant to me but I would be interested in some kind of data on these types of posts

Redtea was a Dann buddy and I don’t think Dann is ever one of those players who is “obvtown” right off the bat, so if Dann is scum here, possibly him and Rodzn doing some scum theatre here.

[Loki Dokie]

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

I'm not heavily scumreading the Loki voters. And explain how is it a contradiction?

like um

which loki voters are you exactly sussing?

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

name names

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

Kitty’s reads are interesting. People shouldn’t ignore distancing. It seems a bit too convenient almost. We lim scum!Kitty and Dann is killled along with kuti plz.

I also really trust GL here.

[Loki Dokie]

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Even more interesting. Dann shading kuti, now both are dead.

And I just showed that this question isn’t scum indicative from kuti.

[Loki Dokie]

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Why tf. is Dann sr this anyway? In what world is this a scummy question?

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

Just weird how hard Dann keeps pushing Kuti here. It’s just too much of a coincidence that both slots arz on the table.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann I hope you read my old games

I probably won't, sorry

I really don’t see why scum!Kuti makes this kind of post. Scum generally hopes you don’t read their games and it sounds like Dann probably just balked at posting his games.

[Loki Dokie]

I mean, someone made a case, or as much as you can make a case at this point of the game on another slot. Isn't that worth reading and either vocally agreeing with or disagreeing or drawing some conclusion from since it's one of the only bits of content in the game so far?

I'm not asking for theses or for everyone to be all caught up or have developed thoughts. It just strikes me as odd when people are present and commenting and posting but ignoring content *especially* at this stage of the game

Not for me it isn’t. I’m actually exhausted rn and this game just literally started, so if you’re town, your vote on me was probably just silly, since you don’t appear to be taking any of that into account but I will reread it tomorrow.

VOTE: Loki

Dann's obvtown here

See this is a totally nia post from me Roden, same as the one Dann voted me for, so why would you even jump on me for this?

Also, I was in PYP after White Flag and you responded quite differently to an nai post I made in that. You were super obvtown in that for the specific way you responded to me.

[Loki Dokie]

My working theory is that scum thinks we will vote Kuti and we will read Roden as a frame if Dann winds up flipping scum. And I agree with GL that Ari is likely town here as well.

[Loki Dokie]

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

oh ok i didn't know who you were lol

UNVOTE:

no longer think this reaction is unbelievable/scummy

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

You obviously have no idea who I am, do you?

oh ok i didn't know who you were lol

UNVOTE:

no longer think this reaction is unbelievable/scummy

You know? Am I that obvious?

i went and skimmed some past games and you have a pretty recognizable playstyle

for the record I have never said I think GL is scum nor meant to imply it

So what then was so extremely “troubling” to you that I failed to comment on then?

Are you planning to actually make sense at some point or not?

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

You obviously have no idea who I am, do you?

no idea

I don't alt hunt and am usually extremely oblivious

All of these posts are concerning from Dann. The moment fire unvoted me was the moment Dann should have had some kind of reaction to that but he didn’t. And the vote on me being “funnier” just also sounds seriously lame.

And Dann isn’t horrible at alt hunting. He recognized my alt in a past game before anyone else or myself ever pointed it out.

[Loki Dokie]

Those certainly look like buddy posts.

+1

Yeah thinks so. I think town!Dann seeing fire unvote me would definitely had a strong reaction to that but he just completely ignored it until it became beyond obvious. Dann was also being extremely lamisty this early in the game. It was freaking rvs, nothing remotely scum indicative about my not commenting on that.

So I think Dann knew exactly who I was once fire unvoted me and chose to intentionally play dumb.

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

Basically reading how people play helps me read them better so. I'm not misunderstanding them due to play style reasons. I think I make sense to people that aren't me?

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

You can check my previous game on ms (is it loaded?) where I was town. I am very fluffy day one because I like conversation. I also asked about people's old games and what not because I do in fact read old games. It takes me a day or two to get comfortable in a game to start pushing on people.

I'm new to this site and like to be aware of people's playstyles. Shoot me for that.

Here I am asking the same question in my previous ms game

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13453350

Previous game GL provided old games. I read them. Figured out he was towny and sheeped his reads which lead to me helping town win and going 2/2 on vig shots on scum

So yes I do need this for my playstyle

do you have any impressions of any players yet? if not anything pinging you scummy has anything struck you as towny? or not really anything at all yet

Fire feels very natural and fluid so far, nothing towny yet since it's been NAI content.

Waiting for GL to do something AI so I can sheep if he's towny again.

Ari, I have only played turbos and one mash with, hasn't really given anything AI related. Her shit posting doesn't feel awkward.

I honestly can't read people that do gimmicks so I'm already annoyed at that slot.

I do like the pressure you are applying to me.

That's all I got so far.

interesting

I am skeptical of the value of cold meta versus personal history with someone when it comes to returning anything alignment indicative but I won't argue the point

I mean when you are new to a playerlist, you gotta take cold meta and it clearly helped me in my last game. I rather get myself familar with players than have no idea about them.

meh, okay. I'm not going to lie and say I have any more stronger impressions than you do.

I apologize if I came off as somewhat abrasive but you're a newer player (I think?) and I was hoping you might panic a little bit if I laid it on somewhat thick. and I think it's ever so mildly towny that you didn't just start making up reads on people because I put some pressure on you

I think I'm still most scared of Aristeia for handing out free town reads to Kutiplz and GL

I only played three games on ms but one was a hydra so I don't count that one. This is my second solo game on here. It's just a routine I do when I'm trying to get used to players so I apologize that it seems like I'm asking for games as busy work when I really am not.

Wait Ari gave me a townread? Why does that scare you

Kuti, I tried to find your Sabi (?) account on MU and couldn't find it. Is it still there?

I'm Kuti plz (there's a space)

Here are my previous games. I also have a syndicate game I finished if you want me to add it

So who knows each other from the playerlist and what's yall experience levels and what not.

Links to old games as both alignments would be appreciated. I can do the same as well.

I know no one from this player list. As for experience, I played a few games here a couple of years back and that's about it.

Games in question:

[url=ttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81548]Newbie 1973[/url] - Town
Newbie 1976 - Scum
Newbie 1983 - Town
Newbie 1988 - Town
Newbie 1991 - Scum

The newest game on this list is 2+ years old by now, so I'm not sure how relevant these will be in regard to my current playstyle, cause it's bound to have changed since my last game, despite not having played at all for the last 2 years. Still, I'm pretty sure there's useful stuff in there.

What about you?

I have played around year. Started in 2021.

I'm not going to link my one mafia game in MU because I'm ashamed of my extreme ate and deeply embarrassed by it. My other homesite is webdip and I can link those games with my iso:

First time randing mafia, multiball, I end gamed into a draw (1-1-1)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... f=4&t=3784 game link
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... sharamSabi my iso

Second mafia rand, normal, mafia sweep and won

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... f=4&t=3915 game link
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... sharamSabi my iso

Here are my mu town games:
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35684
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35591
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36308
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36135
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35929

I'm Kuti plz in mu

Wait Ari gave me a townread? Why does that scare you

yknow what I completely mixed you up with KittyTacky

I was like Ari only talked about me in three post and it was just about my identity and mu lol

Dann I hope you read my old games

GL I think I'm ready to sheep you again part2

None of this looks to be coming from a scum iso. This reads like a townie mindset to me.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann was also being extremely lamisty this early in the game. It was freaking rvs, nothing remotely scum indicative about my not commenting on that.

i don't agree here. i thought at the time that popping in without commenting on it was scummy as well. the whole point was that me and GL was one of the first big things that *wasn't* rvs, so treating it as if everything so far was rvs and not worth commenting on was strange from everyone who did

I disagree because game just literally started and I generally don’t respond to much until I’ve had time to actually process the game and I was extremely exhausted like I said, so was in no position to comment but Dann definitely having no reaction to you unvoting me was definitely hella strange. Town!Dann would have 100% reacted to it. He made a huge deal about your case but has no reaction to you suddenly unvoting me because you recognized my main? I find that at least, highly unlikely. Even if you’re going to argue he didn’t actually know who I was yet, he had no reaction to it whatsoever and that’s the part that pings me the most.

[Loki Dokie]

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Why tf. is Dann sr this anyway? In what world is this a scummy question?

These serirs of posts also ping me. Why is asking for cold meta reads ever scum indicative? Not saying scum couldn’t ever make such a post but it’s a weird post for Dann to be jumping on.

[Loki Dokie]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1.

place a vote down on an easy to push townie

2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

Roden is right about one thing, It’s extremely hard to miselim me. And most players who pocket me usually wind up to be players who initially jumped on me for silly reasons because it’s so difficult to tell the difference between actual town who changed their mind and scum doing the same thing. Of course Kitty was obviously an exception.

[Loki Dokie]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

I realized that my entire reason for wifom tr Dann didn’t really make all that much sense mechwse. If Dann is town here, why does scum pick Kuti as an option?

Scum is down 1 point, they can’t risk town getting another point. In a different kind of game, my initial wifom read would have made more sense.

But Dann saying both that I’m “weird” AND that voting me was “funnier” is really strange. It sounds almost a bit like a tmi. These two thoughts really don’t make a helluva lot of sense together.

[Loki Dokie]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1.

place a vote down on an easy to push townie

2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

Roden is right about one thing, It’s extremely hard to miselim me. And most players who pocket me usually wind up to be players who initially jumped on me for silly reasons because it’s so difficult to tell the difference between actual town who changed their mind and scum doing the same thing. Of course Kitty was obviously an exception.

I thought you were mislim bait and that was your whole paranoid shtick this game.....probably doesn't matter but yeah

And that’s yet another thing I would expect town!Dann to take into consideration but I really think him not reacting to fire’s unvote at all was really odd. If I had just voted a sr and another player who previously just unvoted them. I would definitely want to know why but Dann votes me for not supposedly being “curious” about a case when we were still in rvs but he isn’t remotely curious as to either why fire unvoted me or who he thinks I might be that caused him to unvote. Does that make sense to anyone?

[Loki Dokie]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

GL is obviously very townie and I think Ari is as well on rereading her iso.

I also think that in this setup, scum is far more likely to engage in distancing. And Kitty singled out Dann’s vote on me specifically. Kitty went down to give scum towncred, that’s why he didn’t put up much of a fight.

And that’s why Kuti is the perfect mislimbait to put with Dann because what fighting chance would scum have with Kuti? And Kuti wasn’t on Kitty which also makes them a great option.

But nothing about their iso is actually scummy and Dann jumped on them for ridiculous reasons. They’re a new player, so of course they’d be asking for game links irrespective of alignment, so no reason for Dann to jump on them for that.

Town!Dann is also more likely to townblock this early but here, he jumped on multiple players like Ari for example and also Bell.

[Loki Dokie]

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Why tf. is Dann sr this anyway? In what world is this a scummy question?

These serirs of posts also ping me. Why is asking for cold meta reads ever scum indicative? Not saying scum couldn’t ever make such a post but it’s a weird post for Dann to be jumping on.

It could be used by scum to provide an appearance of doing something without actually contributing to the game. Especially if all that meta reading never gets brought up again, which I don't believe it was in this case.

I never said that was town indicative of itself but it’s at best town indicative and at worst nia. The point is, it’s not in itself scum indicative. Especially since we know Kuti is a newer player. And he did do the exact same thing in a previous towngame, which he pointed out.

[Loki Dokie]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

This actually does concern me as well. Unfortunately, I have concerns on both sides, and those concerns aren't likely to be alleviated until I get to see how Dann and kuti flip.

What are your concerns and who with?

[Loki Dokie]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

I don't think I was at the exact reads I am now when I first read this, but have we overlooked Town!Kuti plz being killed for their reads?

Possibly?

I’m just seeing way too many red flags with Dann and Kuti just looks like such obvious miselimbait. I just think that if Kuti’s actually scum here, scum would go with someone who’s more strongly tr to go up against Dann and I stand by Dann was being overly lamisty here for rvs and his vote on me - with the juxtaposition of both “weird” and “funnier” didn’t look genuine to me. How can I both be acting both “weird” and a vote on me be “funnier” at the same time? And his non-reaction to fire’s unvote just doesn’t make any sense coming from town!Dann. Town!Dann townblocks alot more but here he just threw out multiple srs, some for reasoning that made very little sense to me. Also all of the associatives that look like terrible scum theatre aren’t helping my townread on him any. Kitty just happens to dislike Dann’s vote on me the most and after reading that scumgame, it’s hard to not see Dann and Roden as buddies.

And I’m just really not buying his subpar chicken little impersonation either. It’s fucking rvs and it would be fine to push and ask questions but at rvs, it was a ridiculous over reaction. Sorry fire, I jusy don’t agree with you. At a later point in the day, I’d view it very differently but to me it screams let’s jump on a townie for the silliest possible of reasons. I’d probably not judge a newbie player extremely hard for that but Dann has had plenty of experience.