Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Bell]

Hi Dann, *waits politely to the side*

You can view old games by clicking on the player name then going to view topics and it will show you all the places they've posted in, most of which should be games unless they're social.

[Bell]

I'm here. Town obviously.
No reads yet.

But the cake is a lie

Scum.

[Bell]

Hi Dann, *waits politely to the side*

You can view old games by clicking on the player name then going to view topics and it will show you all the places they've posted in, most of which should be games unless they're social.

Fair enough, I just assume people play on sites outside of ms

Nobody ever links those games unless you harass them. For the best, I swear they have a policy of posting totally differently depending on the website they're on.

[Bell]

I am fluffy. But I have an excuse.

[Bell]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

[Bell]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat (but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them).
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

[Bell]

The british.
First they raze your village, and then they apologize for it.

[Bell]

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

people are neat

im not scum, sadly. are you?

I'm third party.

Fire you need to tell me if you're scum. It's in the rules.

[Bell]

I can't tell if GL is open AIing or not.

[Bell]

Eh, probably not in character for them to be cheeky.

[Bell]

Mostly eyeing Dann and Bell for now as possible mafia, but nothing concrete.
A bit under the weather.

Please don't eye me.

[Bell]

I can't tell if GL is open AIing or not.

Bell I'm gonna need you to elaborate too

They’re attacking the logic of a player like an AI might.

Everybody reaches early game(sigh I have to explain what reaches mean). Reaches mean they extend their logic or reasoning farther than the evidence can take them. Sometimes for bullshit. But I haven’t seen many arguments that don’t have some level of assumption or lack of caution to them. This is why “case me” is a very difficult defense if done right because, ultimately whatever argument you make is going to have flaws.

However it’s RVS so I don’t think much of it. More of a note for later though, with GL it likely won’t be necessary unless they go to a fair again or something.

[Bell]

is it a lie that im not scum or that im bad at breaking rules

im p sure both are true

i don't like breaking rules at all, it makes me feel sick

You’re pretty sure you’re town are you?

[Bell]

Dann's obvtown here

No. They aren't.

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

Do you care about getting voted out, or losing? Why do you play?

I play for fun, and I like surviving and winning, it hurts to get voted out and lose.

Aw.

Does Loki ever power woof?
Loki, out yourself.

[Bell]

Dann's obvtown here

Aristeia is a paladin confirmed.

[Bell]

Are you the other dog avatar. Because you’re the only player that comes into a game as an alt and immediately claims that they’re obviously the sog avatar when you’re significantly goofier when you’re the dog.

[Bell]

Ah andante.

[Bell]

Bell will you ever get past pleasantries?

*points at your nose* Loki if Andante, is, I think, readable. finding out what they're doing is not pleasantries.

[Bell]

I was talking to Loki, not Greeting.

[Bell]

*stares vacantly* Wisdom?
That doesn’t make any sense.
Just tell me. If you’re going to play coy about it.

Well more important question are you a polarized player where you play totally different as one alignment from another?

I feel like I got a tldr: from greeting that could be summed up as kill all lurkers.
Sure. Yeah. Okay.

[Bell]

*stares off into t he universe*
I need more from everybody with less posts than me.
Even if it’s just about the people who have more posts than me.

I guess Loki is Nancy. Instantly announcing your alt at the beginning of the game seems like something she’d do.
Maybe?

I didn’t realize the players picked have to stop posting during the arena style portion.
What kind of Turing test bullshit is this. Live chat, not email plz. @datisi. Change rules mid game thanks.

[Bell]

i think it was done that way to avoid the 1v1 pain

I don’t have that experience with furtive. They seemed pretty intense with occasional bouts of emotional exclamations as town.
They missed all of my jokes.

[Bell]

I feel like Roden gets wagoned every D1.

[Bell]

I’m town, I don’t know who the scum are.
Hope this helps.

[Bell]

ok but you have thoughts yes?

Absolutely not.

[Bell]

They have four posts. My only thought is “does Roden actually exist? Does anyone?”
The only people worth looking at for AI stuff are the active ones but the only actives one are the ones I don’t want to lim. So it’s a conundrum.

[Bell]

Hah, AI, gottem.

[Bell]

do you believe his inactivity is AI?

I can’t read Roden even when they do post.
So.

[Bell]

This page top is mine and mine alone.

[Bell]

This page top is mine and mine alone.

Meta

[Bell]

I’ll pipe in for the active people for a take once in awhile. But I don’t want a blank slot in a 1v1.

Consider my vote on everyone that hasn’t posted more than me.

[Bell]

I'd rather we left Roden alone for the next RL day
And then come back to that because it's not morally wrong to lim someone going through a difficult time. Because it's not morally wrong to lim someone. But there are other alleys to explore.

VOTE: KittyTacky
Hi, are you scum?
What have you done this game that doesn't make you scum this game?

[Bell]

I want to vote Fire.

[Bell]

I can't put my finger on it. It just feels like they're borderline providing wrong opinions that are only wrong when you think abut them.

[Bell]

For the record I think Vivax is probably town

I still have doubts about fire, but that fish can be fried another time

Pretty much, but just don't leave it uncooked.

More kitty votes please.

[Bell]

Here. Apologies. Work is starting up again.

[Bell]

Anything interesting happen in the last few pages?

[Bell]

Doesn't look like it.

[Bell]

also scum has a ton of wiggle room in this situation so please later be careful about assumptions that people usually make like "oh scum wouldn't all pile on a wagon together" or "scum must be the ones pushing this counterwagon to scum" because they have 5 people. we need 7 to elim. to get an elim on scum without bussing we need 7/8 town people to agree. that's just not really ever gonna happen if scum doesn't want it to

so scum is free to just mostly do whatever they want and be as unconventional as possible with their votes in order to look unpaired with each other, bc they know that multiple of them will have to flip at some point

Caution preaching does not make me feel warm inside.

[Bell]

less feigned indifference pls

more on who you want to kill

Thinking.

[Bell]

Wait, why is my indifference feigned.
I'm just not sure which players are scum or not. It's not indifference, it's being indecisive.

[Bell]

Vivax is all over the place for me.

Kitty hasn't done anything. I get "Meta says they're always like this"
but even for that, I'm not seeing any hyper posting which they say they're capable of.

[Bell]

Kutiplz has managed to uptick as town by 0.000000125%. But that's basically it. I just don't want to lose this game to the lurker slots. Truth be told this game should be relatively easy after this first elimination and it's probably relatively important that we hit right, but honestly. Given my accuracy it's probably better just to go for the unsolvables.

[Bell]

It feels a little too deliberate when your response to a couple votes on you in the last few pages + others saying they'd be fine with a wagon on you is "nothing interesting happened." Like, "oh, look at me, I don't care about this."

Did I misinterpret that reaction?

When a player disappears for 2 days getting pressured for it, is not exactly what I would call out of the ordinary. it's perfectly normal for a player to slip down in a reads list. I've had this happen to me a lot, an everytime I get back all the reads right themselves back into town leans. Because I'm not difficult to sort and I'm relatively in your face when I'm here. "A little too deliberate" is quite the round about way of saying something you could be saying plainly instead. I actually can't tel which ones are scum and which ones aren't in terms of push because the takes are defaults to something plain.

[Bell]

I think Loki's indecision of me looks natural but meh. It's not a slam dunk.

[Bell]

@Bell who do you townread?

Me, Dann, GL to a lesser extent. you to a lesser lesser extent with power woof vibes.

After that take your pick. I dunno.

[Bell]

Dan has slotted into what I would expect from them. I understand they can be good scum. But I'm not seeing a deviation from their typical playstyle and approach.

[Bell]

also I'm really tired and can't remember who but someone made a point about "chaining miselims" earlier and it just occurred to me that's not really possible in this set up since scum pick the gladiate for future days and trying to carry out such an agenda would be fairly obvious? or at least a clear WIFOM situation if scum sets up a preflip and then they're Shiny New Top Scumread after the miselim winds up in the next day's Turing test. so I need to go back and find that post but maybe that's a townslip because scum would already be thinking about how they're going to play D2 and beyond to some degree

It's weird that you're not doing this and instead made a post about planning to do this.

[Bell]

Vivax is all over the place for me.

Kitty hasn't done anything. I get "Meta says they're always like this"
but even for that, I'm not seeing any hyper posting which they say they're capable of.

I hyperopost when I see something that I latch on to.

There are 30 pages and there's nothing you want to latch on to?

[Bell]

also I'm really tired and can't remember who but someone made a point about "chaining miselims" earlier and it just occurred to me that's not really possible in this set up since scum pick the gladiate for future days and trying to carry out such an agenda would be fairly obvious? or at least a clear WIFOM situation if scum sets up a preflip and then they're Shiny New Top Scumread after the miselim winds up in the next day's Turing test. so I need to go back and find that post but maybe that's a townslip because scum would already be thinking about how they're going to play D2 and beyond to some degree

It's weird that you're not doing this and instead made a post about planning to do this.

Hah, I missed it.

[Bell]

feels like the game is stalling at a time when we need to be consolidating

my top lim is KittyTacky, I would happily settle for Bell (I don't think his latest string of posts was all that townie either) or kuti, wouldn't be happy but at this point wouldn't throw a fit about Roden, Greeting, or Vivax elims - I do suspect there's potentially at least one maf in that pool though it wouldn't surprise me if any of them flipped town. Anyone else is prob a no-go for me, I could see worlds where I vote for Rat but doesn't feel like they have any real momentum currently

I think overall the town consensus (people who have votes) is a fairly good limpool, and I suspect the fact that several wagons have gotten to around 3-5 votes and then died means at least one is scum and scum are playing really tentatively around the deadline here. in general the common thread between KT, Bell, kuti is they all feel very reactive to being pressured rather than proactive about hunting scum, so like I say we pick one and yeet because we're out of time now for them to start really advancing the game of their own accord

Thinking more about Dann's point about Kitty being 'sacrificed', I don't know if I really think it's all that likely because I don't get the sense from the current gamestate that there's a particular wagon being pushed by scum with an agenda

I was prodded. Not pressured. I'm pretty defensive by nature.

[Bell]

I didn't realize Dann was voting me. Huh. I'm town fyi.
Why are you voting town?

[Bell]

also this is going to sound somewhat egotistic and possibly rub people the wrong way but my hit rate on day1 wagons is 70%[7/10 completed games where I am voting for the day 1 eliminated player, that player has flipped mafia.]



I can be a bit of a petulant child at times but it is generally because I am usually right.

Lol. 7/10.

[Bell]

I'd like to pretend I thought we'd hit scum yesterday.
But that was blind luck.

Also, I feel deeply wifom'd.

[Bell]

But I can keep that thought for later, let's see the votes.
If town, you probably shouldn't vote with me or tops one

I have reasons to think Kuti

was

mafia and Dannflor

was

town. But if they flipped differently, that would throw my assumptions for this game on their head.

VOTE: Kuti

Okay.
What are those reasons?

[Bell]

Dann is a very strong player irrespective of alignment. I doubt very much scum would kill him here unless he’s town.

We obviously shouldn’t rush this but Dann might have possibly been killed for his reads and scum is probably fine with sacrificing Kuti to get rid of him.

Not 100% wedded to this but I think if scum wanted to wifom us with this, they probably leave scum!Dann for later.

Killed for his reads....you're saying Bell smoked Dannflor.

Not to brag but I was about to give Dannflor a lecture, but then the day ended. Anyway your reads aren't getting any better with age, like wine.

[Bell]

Or maybe you're just scum. Though, tbh.
Maybe you'd have better reads if you were.

How do you approach scum reads as scum Furtive?

[Bell]

Especially considering like if kuti was mafia and Dann is town kuti gained virtually no towncredit from the Kitty flip, if they had someone who bussed why not try to cash in on the fake dissasociatives you planted before you risk looking scummy and blowing it by pushing a miselim first

This is a surprisingly persuasive argument. But I'm going to take my time an then probably just default to Kuti anyway.
But I can pretend, I can pretend to have really thought it through before fucking up.

[Bell]

I really wasn’t expecting Furtive to go the dodge question and entirely forget that my struggle with reading him last game was “how dense is too dense?” Especially because they seemed sensitive about it.
Are you going to answer my question? The more important question might be why you forgot something that upset you so much you posted about it post game.
It just comes off as selective amnesia and posturing.

[Bell]

I also wasn’t expecting their response to me taunting them was “obviously you’re trying to do this to change my mind, by antagonizing me”, because this is a strategy that has worked in the past”…never?

This is weird. /:

[Bell]

@GL

1. It may not have necessarily been that Dannflor's personal reads were good, but rather that most people were townreading Dann, which would only snowball as the game progressed.

2. Obviously I don't think scum are "planning" to go 2-0, that's absurd. They're planning for exactly this kind of WIFOM to save them.

Is two really a plan.

[Bell]

Maybe less trying to figure out the wifom and more just iso’ if both and deciding which is more likely.
First impressions mean a lot but I’d recommend putting in the effort to look at them again. With whatever fresh eyes could possibly mean.

[Bell]

Those certainly look like buddy posts.

[Bell]

ISO’d kitty. I don’t really see much there. One push looks near identifical to the next. Besides my interactions with them I don’t see much that’s interesting and it’s only interesting to me, because well, I was seriously considering changing my vote out of boredom and then they died.

[Bell]

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

Basically reading how people play helps me read them better so. I'm not misunderstanding them due to play style reasons. I think I make sense to people that aren't me?

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

You can check my previous game on ms (is it loaded?) where I was town. I am very fluffy day one because I like conversation. I also asked about people's old games and what not because I do in fact read old games. It takes me a day or two to get comfortable in a game to start pushing on people.

I'm new to this site and like to be aware of people's playstyles. Shoot me for that.

do you have any impressions of any players yet? if not anything pinging you scummy has anything struck you as towny? or not really anything at all yet

Fire feels very natural and fluid so far, nothing towny yet since it's been NAI content.

Waiting for GL to do something AI so I can sheep if he's towny again.

Ari, I have only played turbos and one mash with, hasn't really given anything AI related. Her shit posting doesn't feel awkward.

I honestly can't read people that do gimmicks so I'm already annoyed at that slot.

I do like the pressure you are applying to me.

That's all I got so far.

interesting

I am skeptical of the value of cold meta versus personal history with someone when it comes to returning anything alignment indicative but I won't argue the point

I mean when you are new to a playerlist, you gotta take cold meta and it clearly helped me in my last game. I rather get myself familar with players than have no idea about them.

meh, okay. I'm not going to lie and say I have any more stronger impressions than you do.

I apologize if I came off as somewhat abrasive but you're a newer player (I think?) and I was hoping you might panic a little bit if I laid it on somewhat thick. and I think it's ever so mildly towny that you didn't just start making up reads on people because I put some pressure on you

I think I'm still most scared of Aristeia for handing out free town reads to Kutiplz and GL

I only played three games on ms but one was a hydra so I don't count that one. This is my second solo game on here. It's just a routine I do when I'm trying to get used to players so I apologize that it seems like I'm asking for games as busy work when I really am not.

Wait Ari gave me a townread? Why does that scare you

GL I think I'm ready to sheep you again part2

Wait the case on roden was that they were emotional?

Hi sorry I forgot about this game

kuti has 32 posts and i counted like, maybe 2 opinions total

hi kuti i would like to hear some more opinions plz

If I remember correctly, you really like to base your reads off meta. I have played with

kutiplz

on MU and my impression is that they sound no different to what they did in the games I've played with them on that site.

ive looked at a few of their games and the tone is similar yes but the level of content is not

I just forgot the game. I am going to catch up right now and give my opinions. Again I'm sorry

Oh and I asked Kuti cause I thought they'd like to be asked about their opinion and the read on Greeting could prove useful down the line.

My read so far in greeting/west is like I kinda don't like their attempt at buddying me. We had only played two games and idk if that makes them an expert on my meta since I play low activity in ms.


Besides the buddying, from what I have read so far, I have them as town lean ish vibes

And I'd add that if kuti is mafia (seems less vocal from what I'd expect from them as town), them not replying to me asking about that could be from a situation where they'd have to commit to agreeing with a mafia teammate (Greeting). Might stem from them being nervous about looking like that. But I can't dismiss other reasons.

I'm just not active in ms games truth be told. Look at my last ms game and the Hydra.

But no i dont think greeting is mafia. Weird they and you keep focusing on me tho

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

Tbh, the first half of their early posts make me wonder why I was so suspicious of them when they basically entered like how I would enter a game.
The second half of their posts however, doesn't make any sense.
Who asks to meta a bunch of people, a significant time investment,and then says they forgot about the game and, in fact, they aren't very active in their games on MS.
At first I thought it was a joke but then they straight faced it on the second post.

fixed broken quote tags. ~D

[Bell]

plz fix mod, thx.

[Bell]

Apologies.

VOTE: Kutplz

Ultimately I’m incredibly conflicted on Dann, and I don’t want to embarrass myself by misreading him. Made town posts. Made scum posts. I don’t eee much like an agenda, even though his pushes felt agendey he *sort of* kept his way of treating people the same. It’s not great but he seems to have used his yardstick about the same for everyone based on how they played. It’s terrible because it feels less like a read than watching someone play off a policy. But at least he had a policy. Inconsistency isn’t a scum tell, nor is consistency.
I’m not satisfied, but life happens.

[Bell]

Gotta go to work. First day of middle school.

[Bell]

The lack of focus on the players we have to choose from today bothers me. Especially because all it does is tell the scum team who to pair.
But w/e. Bit late for that.

[Bell]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I have bad news.

Bell's inactivity is a p bad look and points to him being probably just scum.

I think Dann decided to try to push Bell d1 to salvage the KT situation but when he couldn't get traction he basically gave up and bussed KT.

Dann probably figures if he flips here that gives Bell enough towncred tommorrow after he flips to somehow escape off distancing later down the line.

I'm busy.

fire being one of the most vocal dann supporters with logic thats surface level correct is also kind of strange to me

like the principles he's using are correct but they're correct in a way that would be correct even if Dann flips scum here;

which feels like thats his primary consideration rather than who is town/scum within the Dann/Kuti dichotomy


everything is about loss, strategy, and like how a scum team looks at resources rather than

who is actually scum

Rather than trying to win by voting out who is scum, its all about mitigating a possible loss that creates a narrative further down the line that feels somewhat like putting the cart before the horse.

Sure.

[Bell]

Ftr, regardless of whether I’m wrong or right I’m still town.

[Bell]

I haven’t rolled scum in ages(Tyvm rng)

[Bell]

Just in case Datisi comes by I must deny him a page top.
I think Datisi lives in one of those lesser countries.

[Bell]

Didn’t deserve win. I’m sorry. Got carried. Thanks Ari and gg all.