Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Aristeia]

I joined this game just to flirt with the cute moderator and because he invited me.

Spoiler: For Dats <3

my first townread is this kitty person.

this has nothing to do with my love of cats I promise.

Hi Fire I promise I will not mindlessly tunnel you again <3

[Aristeia]

VOTE: FurtiveGlance

[Aristeia]

I joined this game just to flirt with the cute moderator and because he invited me.

his invite dm said that he liked me, i was kinda ngl

im gonna frame it and put it on my wall

why aren't you going to mindlessly tunnel me this time? did you finally roll maf?

it never works out ! :<

i am actually incapable of rolling mafia

[Aristeia]

GuiltyLion is town because he made me laugh.

VOTE: DonE

[Aristeia]

Kuti are you Sabi from MafiaU?

[Aristeia]

I have a pretty good track record of reading people not named Datisi tho

[Aristeia]

missed oppurtunity from fire to dunk on me for misreading him like 11 times in a row

[Aristeia]

Dannflor never says much but I think I know what alignment he is I will keep it in my pocket for later

[Aristeia]

there is a balance to be struck between obfuscation and complete silence imo

[Aristeia]

I think there's value to keeping some things hidden but if people don't do things there will be nothing to analyze/think about and that's kind of unplayable and we might as well be flipping coins.

It'd be somewhat boring imo.

[Aristeia]

yes!

I missed playing with you <3

[Aristeia]

I stopped playing on MU because the randomizer there is broken and keeps giving me mafia.

do you have any reads, hot takes or cat pictures you would like to share?

[Aristeia]

lol what did you get temp banned for.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Roden

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Roden

Is this sus

Any explanation?

Pressure is useful for determining alignment

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Roden

Is this sus

Any explanation?

Pressure is useful for determining alignment

Is there a player you wouldn't vote for pressure or do you just not care?

I wouldn't pressure anyone I'm townreading or someone who is unlikely to be sortable via pressure

[Aristeia]

I think you know I meant specific players in this game.

The answer would be the same.

[Aristeia]

I generally prefer to do things rather than not do things

[Aristeia]

I generally prefer to do things rather than not do things

Do you think giving me less to read you will make me town/null you?

It doesn't, you just go in the 'could be mafia' group.

cool

[Aristeia]

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

[Aristeia]

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

Do you care about getting voted out, or losing? Why do you play?

I play for fun, and I like surviving and winning, it hurts to get voted out and lose.

I play to catch bad guys and yeet them because it's fun.

[Aristeia]

do you think he's scum ?

[Aristeia]

ok but you have thoughts yes?

[Aristeia]

do you believe his inactivity is AI?

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Aristeia]

Posting just to say I'm not lurking, I've been dealing with a crisis with a friend and I'm more focused on that atm. I'll respond to stuff later tonight.

roden not actually following up feels pretty significantly +scum equity

[Aristeia]

What game were we both in where I was scum? Or is that just a general read?

in the coalition game you were significantly more townie when pressured. Coalition Micro

similarly in Fusion Upick

when you're scum you tend to kind of don't have that kind of edge/angry tone in your voice.

You don't have the same kind of edge when defending yourself and it feels like you're not quite really here and more importantly you don't feel like you want to be here.

SCP
Radio Buzz


I understand from your last completed mini normal[2276] you were fustrated over being nightkilled on n1 and perhaps not wanting to be nightkilled would be a valid explanation for maybe not being as townie as you have been in the past but this game is not really that sort of game.

in this game, scum can't just shoot the towniest townies - it would be quite suicidal of them to do so because it would make the 1v1s quite lopsided, they have to actually shoot in the murky middle so to speak, as a result you should be trying to be as townie as possible but it doesn't feel like you're enthusiastic about this game at all.

[Aristeia]

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

[Aristeia]

like um

which loki voters are you exactly sussing?

[Aristeia]

what is masking?

[Aristeia]

ok let's say I am wrong about you.

who would you like to kill and why?

[Aristeia]

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

[Aristeia]

Loki help me vote Kitty pls it will be fun

[Aristeia]

Loki Dokie

, you are creating artificial and unnecessary pressure for a

Roden

wagon. It's true that his ISO isn't very towny, but this is not obvscum. If you're town, then take a step back and let him explain himself.

I have a hard time believing Greeting posts this if Roden is town and Greeting is scum. It doesn't feel white-knighty in the least

[Aristeia]

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

I'm not heavily scumreading the Loki voters. And explain how is it a contradiction?

like um

which loki voters are you exactly sussing?

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

name names

[Aristeia]

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

He is shading without specificity - which tends to be scum going through the motions rather than actually thinking about who is mafia

[Aristeia]

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

He is shading without specificity - which tends to be scum going through the motions rather than actually thinking about who is mafia

I do this as town tho.

so you're doing this as mafia now?

[Aristeia]

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

[Aristeia]

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

I don't like this angle. It seems you are accusing someone of not pushing Dannflor, but you don't seem focused enough on Dannflor yourself. You should think he's mafia if you think that it's a valid reason to attack KittyTacky. Cue for TMI and the Ari/Dann pair being correct.

I have not said anything about Dannflor's alignment.

[Aristeia]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

[Aristeia]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

[Aristeia]

This is KT's first post with suspicion;

I don't like the naked votes on Lokie Dokie.

atp in time the only people who had voted for Loki Dokie are Dannflor and Fireisredsir, fire had unvoted at this point.

~ 3 hours later - Roden votes for Loki Dokie 188

KT comes back and reiterates his position here:

I will repeat that the string of naked votes on Loki is just HMMMMMMM to me.

which is incongruent with:

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't see how you can suspect naked Loki voters and also be null on someone who fits your criteria.

When I press KT on which Loki voters he suspects, his response is:

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

Which implies that he is scumreading one of the other loki voters for their content - but he hasn't actually explained specifically what content he is suspecting.

I further push him to be specific about who he is scumreading at he responds with:

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

I'm not heavily scumreading the Loki voters. And explain how is it a contradiction?

like um

which loki voters are you exactly sussing?

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

name names

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

Now this is weird to me because

(1) he's given absolutely no indication prior to this point that Dannflor is a person of interest or suspect for him.

There's no indication in his iso that he suspects Dannflor at all.

(2) in fact he even sheeps Dannflor with this vote:

Dear God, this whole "I don't get scumread" thing is insufferable.
I don't think it's necessarily scummy, because the same thing happened somewhat in Terminator, but it IS obnoxious and makes the game way harder to follow for anyone else.


Anyway,
VOTE: Greeting
Ignoring the actual substance of posts in favor of superficial "tells" is probably as scummy as it's gonna get D1.

Did a reread of the whole game so far, yeah I can sheep this.
VOTE: Greeting

(3) all of his responses to me feel manufactured on the spot and not part of an actual thought process to find scum. I would guess that his initial comment about the Loki voters wasn't real suspicion and really just playing on Loki's extreme sensitivity to being suspected to try to pocket Loki. Which is why he is having such a hard time actually showing any thought process that involves actually pushing or suspecting any of the people who naked voted Loki to begin with.

[Aristeia]

I'm going on vacation on Monday for the summer and I won't be around as much.

I really hope we can vote out Kitty before then.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Aristeia]

Loki just because I don't agree with your choice of who to lim today does not mean that I am blind.

If you have a reason to think Kitty is town here, I am happy to hear you out.

If you are correct that vivax is scum, we will eventually have the opportunity to eliminate him.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Roden

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

What caused this switch?

668

[Aristeia]

Also what caused you to join the first Done/Greeting wagon but avoid the second one?

547


I think the game would be significantly less aggravating for both of us if you actually read what I post instead of making me explain it to you again.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Aristeia]

I haven't had time to catch up with the thread and read everything that's been posted. Currently out in the mountains and driving 6+ hours each day.


I will try to block out some time to catch up before the deadline.

I am going to try to care a little less about forcing my preferred elimination through because people have complained in the past of me being too controlly and I don't want to be that person that nobody wants to play with.


I am trying to be more considerate of the opinions of others but I simply do not have time to at the present.

[Aristeia]

also this is going to sound somewhat egotistic and possibly rub people the wrong way but my hit rate on day1 wagons is 70%[7/10 completed games where I am voting for the day 1 eliminated player, that player has flipped mafia.]



I can be a bit of a petulant child at times but it is generally because I am usually right.

[Aristeia]

does anyone actually townread KittyTacky?

[Aristeia]

it feels like everyone is more or less ready for the day to end.

[Aristeia]

fire are you waiting for a hand written invitation or something?

[Aristeia]

I feel like I am herding cats

[Aristeia]

thanks fire

you are the best <3

[Aristeia]

um wow

[Aristeia]

I am off vacation next week and will have time to reread pls dont speedvote anyone ty

[Aristeia]

leaning towards voting for Dann atm

full catchup when I am home on Tuesday.

[Aristeia]

ive been thinking a lot about why a scum team with dann would want to put Dann up first.

because it doesn't make a ton of sense to insert the strongest scum player in a 1v1 first,

i think specifically in the case where the scum team has 3 weak and 1 strong player.

the strong player doesnt think his voice is strong enough to shield the weak players as it will get drowned out by stronger town voices.

so instead the strong player goes first in order to create the illusion that there are more townread/stronger scum players within the town and shield the weaker players from scrutiny

this can fracture the townblock.

another benefit from this would be that town kuti getting misyeeted here would reset the balance of expectations and give "towncred" to the weaker scum players who need to pass through the gauntlet later.

[Aristeia]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

[Aristeia]

Bell's inactivity is a p bad look and points to him being probably just scum.

I think Dann decided to try to push Bell d1 to salvage the KT situation but when he couldn't get traction he basically gave up and bussed KT.

Dann probably figures if he flips here that gives Bell enough towncred tommorrow after he flips to somehow escape off distancing later down the line.

[Aristeia]

fire being one of the most vocal dann supporters with logic thats surface level correct is also kind of strange to me

like the principles he's using are correct but they're correct in a way that would be correct even if Dann flips scum here;

which feels like thats his primary consideration rather than who is town/scum within the Dann/Kuti dichotomy


everything is about loss, strategy, and like how a scum team looks at resources rather than

who is actually scum

Rather than trying to win by voting out who is scum, its all about mitigating a possible loss that creates a narrative further down the line that feels somewhat like putting the cart before the horse.

[Aristeia]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

It's not irrelevant to what you think of Dannflor
It's not irrelevant to think about Dannflor's alignment
Unless your plan is to withhold information on his alignment, is it that?

I don't know I didn't get a reply to these questions from Aristeia. Made before we limmed KT

I have no reason to explain my reads prior to scum making decisions about who to put in front of me because I am capable of being wrong and I prefer the scum not to know who i am wrong about.

I have a very hard time changing my mind usually.

Dann's alignment at the time is wholly irrelevant to Kitty making the remarks he made because Kitty's play did not make sense from a town perspective.

If Kitty is town, he is uninformed by definition of Dann's alignment so it is wholly irrelevant to my interrogation of Kitty.

[Aristeia]

Feeling kind of tempted to sheep fire becuz he was so kind to win Frenemies for me after I was tragically murdered at night by someone I never expected to kill me but I will feel sort of dumb if Dann is scum here >.>

[Aristeia]

I think I'll probably make a better decision after I've slept actually.

I think there are some elements of your argument that don't quite click for me and I'm not sure if it's because I'm sleepy or because they don't make sense.

[Aristeia]

like what do you actually expect Scum!Dann to do in this game with a weak team ?

[Aristeia]

the way I think about the scum team win condition is;

they all have to get through the gauntlet

eventually

like regardless of what the scum team is - the way they win the game is to get the town to flip the other person - which more or less means the scum players have to each pass through the gauntlet unless they win early, and it means the scum team necessarily must be revealed over time - similar to perpetual mylo except the scum have some extra agency in terms of getting to pick the gladiate.

The best way for the scum to do this is to set up associative pushes that look good on D1 so that as they are flipped, one flip begets another.

Like let's say someone like Bell who is pretty bad at scum[no offense Bell] is on the scum team.

The scum team would necessarily see Bell as somewhat of a liability, he basically is unable to replicate his town!meta when he's scum, he's just kind of a sitting duck.

So the best way to cash that liability into something good for the scum team is to push him D1, cash him in for towncred early - Bell even had the early vote on Kitty to establish distancing that way so that if Bell goes down Kitty gets somewhat reflected Towncred.

It feels like the whole bus Bell for Cred plan didn't work out for Dann because Bell wasn't as obvscum as people required for him to actually go down and eventually kitty became more or less inevitable.

Once Kitty went down and scored a point for town, the calculus regarding Bell kind of changes - it's not really viable to bus him at that point because going down 2-0 is basically a death sentence, so the scum have to get him through the gauntlet

somehow

.

There's two ways Bell/Dann!scum can go as a team.

Bell first and then Dann

or Dann first and then Bell.


It feels incredibly hard for Bell -> Dann to work out for the scum because it would look very strange for Dann to suddenly flip his read of Bell on a dime, can he get away with readflipping, getting Bell home and then escape intact himself? I think that's very tricky for him to do. Remember he has to be able to navigate that readflip without anything from Bell

and

survive with enough towncred to get himself out safely.

Otherwise he's stuck double-bussing and playing from 0-2 down which is kind of difficult even against a town that's flipping coins atp.

Dann flipping first however would generate towncred for Bell because it creates distance since Dann was trying to yeet Bell on D1. It's a much cleaner transition for the scum team and I think it just makes sense strategically as a play than the other way around.

Now in the Town!Dann Scum!Bell world; you'd have Bell deciding to hardbus Kitty d1, and then hardbus Kuti d2 and it feels super ~throwy~ ? like the play is so bad for scum I just can't see scum Bell deciding to play that way.

[Aristeia]

also fire I think a lot of your arguments for why Kuti is scum is focussed on Kuti not playing the game but that's not actually like scum indicative imo,

they're clearly mostly afk this game but that's because this site isn't really their home site - like when I play on MU I basically afk too because I'm not very used to logging onto that site and I forget about the game there. Which I think just shows they didn't actually get too involved into the game here, it's actually more likely to come from kuti being town because I think a kuti with a team of scummers chatting with them about what to do would feel more committed and involved than what we saw here.

on two points that I thought were more townie for Kuti;

(1) I think Kuti would've leaned more into buddying with me if they were actually scum because we have played quite a few games together on MU - it feels like they didn't really ingratiate themselves with me at all and in my experience they have more of a social aspect to their scum game.

(2) the sense I get from rereading Kuti's iso is that they're just genuinely very lost and kind of stumbling from one spot to another and saying whatever is on their mind? It doesn't feel like premeditated or planned and I don't think they're getting game state information from a scum thread.

it just feels like kuti's stereotypical surface level LHF being set up to get an easy point and I kind of think scum

need

a win now.

If anything I agree with Fire's take that scum have every incentive to lob wifom balls with Scummy Scum paired with Townie Townie in order to trick us but I think they throw a fastball down the middle first to set up the wifom later.[yes baseball analogy I am a geek]

[Aristeia]

The problem that I see Ari, is your theory for Dann!scum is hinging on Bell!scum but what if Bell is town here, how does that impact your theory?

Bell is incredibly easy to read in that he has a hard volume tell.

If he's not posting, he's scum.

[Aristeia]

The problem that I see Ari, is your theory for Dann!scum is hinging on Bell!scum but what if Bell is town here, how does that impact your theory?

I guess for the sake of completeness I should give Bell maybe a 5% chance of being town here.

in which case he should actually show up and explain why he townreads Dann.

[Aristeia]

Reposting this, because activity in itself isn’t necessarily ai for Bell. I also don’t think Bell is clear by either vote and he can obviously - as Amongst Us shows - hyperpost as either alignment. I also think as any Bell scumgame goes on, the likely worse Bell would look and the exact opposite as town and Bell is voting Kuti right, so he gets no towncred in a scum!Dann world regardless.

it's not that Bell can hyperpost as scum.

it's that Bell doesn't

lowpost

as

town

You're mixing up your conditionals.

[Aristeia]

am i being confbiased again

i have a tendency to get confbiased after i yeet a scum on d1

im actually kind of tempted to just do the opposite thing here

[Aristeia]

the problem with being incredibly certain on a solution is that I can be utterly wrong about it and still feel that i'm right which is an issue because i'm usually right >.>

[Aristeia]

so scum bell is repelling us off the scum wagon by acting as a town repellent

thats so big brain though

[Aristeia]

@GL, @Ari, I think you’re both wrong on Bell but Ari’s Kuti!town argument does give me some pause. But here’s the thing @Ari, the entire scumteam doesn’t really need to go though “the gauntlet” because 3 points to either side wins the game.

Yea you're right about this, I just kind of think it'd be p difficult for scum to win without taking losses.

I do have a pretty optimistic view of the game though.

[Aristeia]

He's not saying you're currently doing that.

He's saying you initially started out doing that so if all of the vocal town leaders are leaning one way, it's fine for the entire scum team to go the bus route because they won't actually influence the wagon direction.

[Aristeia]

I actually hate how confident I am that my solution is exactly what Dann did

[Aristeia]

He's not saying you're currently doing that.

He's saying you initially started out doing that so if all of the vocal town leaders are leaning one way, it's fine for the entire scum team to go the bus route because they won't actually influence the wagon direction.

Okay then, so how does any of this implicate Bell as bussing Dann, when he’s voting Kuti?

He is saying that Kuti is scum and Dann is town.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Dannflor


I think I'd regret it if I didn't vote for the solution I have and it turned out to be right.

[Aristeia]

He's not saying you're currently doing that.

He's saying you initially started out doing that so if all of the vocal town leaders are leaning one way, it's fine for the entire scum team to go the bus route because they won't actually influence the wagon direction.

Okay then, so how does any of this implicate Bell as bussing Dann, when he’s voting Kuti?

He is saying that Kuti is scum and Dann is town.

Then if Bell is scum then, he can only be bussing Kuti, so he doesn’t look great with a Dann scumflip, unless I’m missing something?

fire thinks bell is scum and he also thinks bell is bussing kuti

[Aristeia]

@Ari, @furtive, sell me on Kuti!town. I think if I can get a confident tr on either one, that would be extremely helpful.

I think everything I posted about town-kuti is in 1272


I don't think kuti would shade me as "buddying scum" if they were scum; I think the tack they'd be more likely to use would be to try to buddy me since we've played quite a few games together on MU and I'm more of a familiar face to them as compared to the rest of the PL.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: I miss you Dats ♡( ◡‿◡ )

[Aristeia]

Dannflor [5]: Radical Rat, furtiveglance, Vulture, Aristeia, GuiltyLion
kutiplz [3]: Vivax, Bell, fireisredsir

not voting [2]: Roden, Loki Dokie

I think this is right

[Aristeia]

just let me choose tbh

I am ready to be carried

[Aristeia]

just let me choose tbh

I am ready to be carried

no can do, i shouldn't try to predict what the scumteam is doing

I believe in you <3

[Aristeia]

I've done absolutely no thinking and I plan to sheep fire on voting Bell.

[Aristeia]

I kind of want to see if Radical Rat will really vote for Vulture

[Aristeia]

it kind of almost feels like RR is in the same position Bell was in on D1

[Aristeia]

it kind of almost feels like RR is in the same position Bell was in on D1

And what position is that?

cornered mafia who is aware of their own position

[Aristeia]

I don't think I'm threatening to scumread you. I'm just scumreading you and wondering what your plan is today.

Is there someone you think I should be scumreading instead?

[Aristeia]

I think it's fairly trivial to fake not knowing who someone is or fake confusion in an interaction.

it's distancing without any real stakes and a light touch at that.

I don't think 1494 is definitive either way - contradictions are not solid evidence of alignment imo.

[Aristeia]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell

, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat,

furtiveglance

,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

I think specifically because of the mech, it’s extremely unlikely that 4/5 scum were on Vivax and only one bussed.

agree with this

I don't think it makes sense for the scum team to bus KT and have a massive bloc of votes on vivax because bus credit for bell is somewhat useless.[sorry bell]

[Aristeia]

ok let's say Roden is scum

what is the point of him voting for you?

as in

who is going to hammer you?

[Aristeia]

so who is roden counting on to hammer you?

B-A-G are on Kitty and pushing there.

Greeting can't be scum with Roden.

Dann's flipped town, you won't hammer yourself.

Fire? I have trouble seeing a world where fire is scum because I don't think he pushes that hard for Kuti as scum.

[Aristeia]

fire's consistently advocated for limming scum on every day [KT, Kuti, Bell]

up to now he's gotten little to nothing to show for it in return.

even today when it's like do-or-die he has exerted relatively little influence over the direction of the thread or who to kill.

I think it is extremely unlikely he is mafia and I would be incredibly impressed if he is.

[Aristeia]

it's somewhat dismissive without sorting at all

[Aristeia]

@Vivax

I'm rereading Vulture's D1 and I don't see what's townie/stream of consciousness about it?

This is the only "read" of any substance they post and it sets up the vote later at 890.

Eh. Kitty reasonably likely to be a bit, defended Lokie without actually
giving a read there and in general is pretty sparse with reasoning, and as of last posts ended up shrugging off responsibility to sheep.

the rest of the takes are just one line without any reasoning and they flip on their dann read after kitty flips scum?

[Aristeia]

I think Greeting's iso is actually pretty opportunistic in how he approaches furtive/roden on d1.

I'm pushing Roden at 374, Loki begins pushing Roden at 394

Greeting's posts on Roden are not very good;

416 Greeting says my push on Roden is "spot on"
425 Says Roden's attitude towards the game is not very towny
427 Asks Roden who his biggest scumread right now is
429 Asks Loki to back off on Roden and let him explain himself

at 432 FG says he opposes the Roden vote and at 434 FG votes for Greeting instead

at 443 Loki unvotes Roden and at 444 Loki says he thinks Roden is town

at 446/447 Greeting is pivoting away from pressuring Roden to look into Roden's SR of FG.

this is weird to me because Roden didn't really post any new content for Greeting - he simply re-quoted what he had already posted at 384 to explain the FG SR back to Greeting.

then at 450/451 RR/Loki join FG on Greeting and at 453 Dann says he's fine with a Greeting wagon.

454 is the reaction post from Greeting.

469 he swings around to voting for FurtiveGlance with a very long post supporting Roden.


it feels like Greeting wanted to vote for Roden [416/425], then when the heat got flipped and FG/Loki both decided to flip their reads on Roden , Greeting decided to flip from posturing to vote for Roden to helping Roden vote for FG instead.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler:

I clicked into GuiltyLion’s iso thinking it would be a quick skim. Lol.

Seems to be GuiltyLioning though.

Furtive can be town.

Dan can be town for now.

Null on Kuti, look closer at if fire flips wolf.

Fire is whatever.

Roden is whatever.

vote count 1.05

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [3]:

fireisredsir, Bell, Vivax

Greeting [3]:

furtiveglance, Radical Rat, Loki Dokie

Roden [2]:

Dannflor, Aristeia

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

not voting [3]:

KittyTacky, kutiplz, GuiltyLion

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.06

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Greeting [3]:

Loki Dokie, Dannflor, furtiveglance

furtiveglance [3]:

Roden, Greeting, Vivax

KittyTacky [1]:

Bell

Roden [1]:

Aristeia

Vivax [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [4]:

KittyTacky, kutiplz, GuiltyLion, Radical Rat

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.07

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Greeting [3]:

Dannflor, furtiveglance, KittyTacky

Vivax [3]:

fireisredsir, Loki Dokie, Radical Rat

KittyTacky [2]:

Bell, Aristeia

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Loki Dokie [1]:

Vivax

not voting [2]:

kutiplz, GuiltyLion

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.08

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [5]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, fireisredsir, Vivax

Vivax [3]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance

Greeting [2]:

Dannflor, KittyTacky

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

not voting [1]:

kutiplz

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.09

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

Vivax [3]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Greeting [1]:

KittyTacky

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

kutiplz [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [2]:

kutiplz, Dannflor

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.10

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Vivax [5]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Bell [2]:

Dannflor, fireisredsir

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Much to think about.

VOTE: KittyTacky

If I look at the post timestamps, it makes sort of sense to just spontaneously drop reads on a quick skim from Vulturues perspective.
Regardless, it's harder to fake as scum than inventing a reason to withhold information like Roden did

I don't see how this is difficult to fake at all upon rep in? it's not like they can rep in and post nothing? There's no actual content in the reads and they flip their dann read fairly easily on the next day to push for him to die.

[Aristeia]

I guess you could say that it's townie because they are just throwing things out there without a care but that's kind of a playstyle thing that they are fine doing as either alignment.

[Aristeia]

also rereading this part of the game where Greeting is getting pushed by Dann, Loki, FG, GL, RR etc.

if Roden is scum, wouldn't it be much easier for him to push Greeting rather than push Furtive if scum are desperate to mis-lim a town?

[Aristeia]

Rushing a partner through in a game where I would have to inevitably also be seen as town later would shortsighted and borderline throwing.

Can someone verbalize the reasons why furtive is town if it is being agreed upon. I look at both of the people’s isos and get equally limp feelings atp.

Rushing a partner through in a game where I would have to inevitably also be seen as town later would shortsighted and borderline throwing.

Can someone verbalize the reasons why furtive is town if it is being agreed upon. I look at both of the people’s isos and get equally limp feelings atp.

Umm hello, you rushed Dann who flipped town.

Yes, I suggested a plan in which we bumrush Dannflor through.

Where does that get me if I'm mafia?

This is probably just refuge in audacity.

Saying that it's "borderline throwing" to push a mislim and get a point because it makes you look worse later is like a um what moment? I don't think it's accurate to say it's throwing to pursue your win condition like ever? If anything it'd be borderline throwing to bus and go down 2-0 ?

also points are basically equal between wolves - it doesn't matter for the wolf team if kuti gets caught and vulture gets through versus if vulture gets caught and kuti gets through because both situations are losing assuming as yeet Bell.

The only way Vulture scum can win is if they yeet Dann and also get through themselves.

[Aristeia]

Mentally checked out.

E-1

VOTE: Bell

also this vote doesn't really fit with the rest of Vulture's iso which was basically a soft defense of Bell?

Like it comes right after Fire lays down a vote to E-2 which more or less makes Bell inevitable as the elimination and basically says nothing?

I don't really understand how Vulture keeps asking Loki to justify their townread of furtive and then as soon as Fire makes up his mind decides there's no more need for any other discussion?

it feels like they are rushing the day end to keep people from actually talking because they realized this is not working out for them.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Vulture

Spoiler: For Dats <3

[Aristeia]

GG

Thanks for modding Dats <3



Town played extremely well imo despite the disappointing outcome.

The scumhunting on D1 was very sharp and town mostly did a good job of finding each other and making it extremely difficult for scum to win any thread control - our path to victory was incredibly tight and we had an extremely large amount of lucky breaks go our way esp with the universal suspicion of Dann on d2. I feel like we rolled extremely high on our luck checks multiple times.

A few shout outs for some people that I felt played especially well on the Town Side:



FireIsRedSir,

Like this person is just so good at the game I think he should be nerfed or something. His day one iso was a work of art it was so good and on point. He basically spends it voting one scum then voting another scum then voting another scum - I think I lost count? I'm sitting here going "uh can we just kill someone already?" but he was hellbent on catching the whole team on day one?? just amazing play imo.

His conclusion to day one post was a beauty:

prob like 3 of [rr, kuti, kitty, roden] plus 2 of [bell, ari, GL]

if kitty is scum then scum want cred for flipping there and want to pivot that into a town leader position

flipping kitty here is not bad tho. i think it's more likely to be scum than vivax

I think I spit out my drink reading it.


His great play continued on Day 2 where he was the

only

town voice that was loud, correct and nearly bent the tide the other way - being correct about so many elements of the thought process behind Dann - Kuti matchup.

like

(1) risk-loss aversion [which scenario hurts which side more]
(2) scum team throwing a hail mary because we are so far behind
(3) why are we even using wifom?
(4) Bell is a scumbag and trying to repel people by his stench[I lol'd so much at this]

He was so close to convincing GL/Loki to flip the other way that I made up some random bullshit about Kuti being town and threw it at a wall and somehow it worked.

At endgame you also came the closest to figuring out that my timing is somewhat too convenient etc. I am just so impressed with his play throughout the entire game.


Dann,

Sorry to have to get rid of you early - I was super annoyed when you said that line about Kitty being actively sacrificed while Vivax was a mislim - your instincts about game state, what the scum team is doing and things that are off were prescient and you had great thread presence while holding your cards fairly close to your chest. it made you impossible to really manipulate or prepare for and we had to get rid of you early.

I know it must've been so frustrating watching the town careen off course once we put you in the test - I was giggling a bit at how lucky we got.



Thanks to my scum team for never vetoing any of my harebrained ideas and being patient with me while I vented about nonsense in the scum PT <3

[Aristeia]

I think I mostly just got lucky that the town went the wrong way on their initial instincts on the lims I needed so I never really had to exert a lot of push to get what I wanted.

It wasn't really something I could rely on or predict.

I do agree with you that the setup feels pretty townsided but it was very exciting to play

[Aristeia]

the RR thing at the beginning of the day was designed to give him a motive to pick me if he was scum because scum!him would know that town!me would vote for and advocate for him being scum so he might as well take me so that I am not loudly screaming for his head when he is asleep.

the way he awkwardly pivoted on me was another unexpected lucky break that I got.

[Aristeia]

the RR thing at the beginning of the day was designed to give them a motive to pick me if they were scum because scum!RR would know that town!me would vote for and advocate for them being scum so they might as well take me so that I am not loudly screaming for their head when they are asleep.

the way they awkwardly pivoted on me was another unexpected lucky break that I got.

fixd for pronouns. sorry RR!