Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Vivax]

I'm here. Town obviously.
No reads yet.

But the cake is a lie

[Vivax]

Mostly eyeing Dann and Bell for now as possible mafia, but nothing concrete.
A bit under the weather.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

insert a pun here

In a game of conflicting moods,
a random person came and made a pair of boots,
surely nobody was in cahoots

If someone took pity, more than just on a boot, a sunken city surely could shoot

[Vivax]

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

people are neat

im not scum, sadly. are you?

I'm third party.

Fire you need to tell me if you're scum. It's in the rules.

it's a good thing im not scum then, im really bad at breaking rules

First of all, this is a lie.
Second, why in the world is Bell claiming 3p?

[Vivax]

is it a lie that im not scum or that im bad at breaking rules

im p sure both are true

i don't like breaking rules at all, it makes me feel sick

Okay it's not a lie

[Vivax]

But you thought of one regardless

[Vivax]

VOTE: Dannflor

This slot's vote is misplaced

[Vivax]

VOTE: Vivax

Code: Select all

Logical anomaly: Inability to discern human jokes.

Code: Select all

Joke: Inability to discern anomalies

[Vivax]

hm I don't think so

you sound convincing ngl

VOTE: RadicalRat

Some OMGUS will have to do

[Vivax]

Vivax hi

Hey there!
Didn't quite understand the exile, but we meet again. Hope you're doing well.

[Vivax]

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

[Vivax]

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

With or without TMI on Loki?
Changed my mind on him, got goosed by AtE.

VOTE: Loki

[Vivax]

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

With or without TMI on Loki?
Changed my mind on him, got goosed by AtE.

VOTE: Loki

Loki's alignment doesn't matter, I'm saying you're mafia. Why are you trying to obfuscate/confuse the issue? Why would you even care whether you're 'mafia with someone' or not if you're town? Also this turnaround has not helped you.

If you have no opinion on Loki and think his alignment doesn't matter, me saying either way shouldn't bother you one bit unless you know something of Loki that I don't, which is probs that he's mafia.
So I naturally look to you like a townie who should appear scummy for that.

You are lock scum to me for this fyi.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Vivax]

Vivax almost seems... too scummy to be scum

Great read off so little
Thought my Loki defense would look rather sketchy since I didn't communicate at the time I changed my mind on him before furtiveglance came in.

[Vivax]

Yeah I'm not necessarily town reading him I just find his posts shocking

Were you able/willing to get behind the point on Furtive?
Why would the 'either way' be so salient to them as town to the point of making a scumread?

Not to take away from your intention of voting Loki.

[Vivax]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

[Vivax]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

[Vivax]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I also oppose cannibalism

Okay?

[Vivax]

If team is Dann, Furtive, Loki
Good luck outposting that

[Vivax]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

1) I don't townread Loki, all they did was complain they got wagoned and said they wouldn't have got voted on their other account (who cares?)

2) If anyone is pulling strings it's Dannflor. I also townread Dannflor initially but now I'm worried that mafia could create a mafia UTR quite easily since there are 5 of them, and am slightly paranoid that's happening here. Leaning town on Dannflor though.

3 Explain why you wanted to know whether I thought it was you/Loki or you TMIing Loki as town. How does that help you if you're town?

I'm just repeating what I said. Ok

Initially dropped a lazy TR on Loki.
Then decided to turn it into SR instead. I didn't post it. Busy elsewhere.
You latched onto my post and I thought you saw an opportunity to paint me scummy cause I was being waffly on your teammate

[Vivax]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

1) I don't townread Loki, all they did was complain they got wagoned and said they wouldn't have got voted on their other account (who cares?)

2) If anyone is pulling strings it's Dannflor. I also townread Dannflor initially but now I'm worried that mafia could create a mafia UTR quite easily since there are 5 of them, and am slightly paranoid that's happening here. Leaning town on Dannflor though.

3 Explain why you wanted to know whether I thought it was you/Loki or you TMIing Loki as town. How does that help you if you're town?

I'm just repeating what I said. Ok

Initially dropped a lazy TR on Loki.
Then decided to turn it into SR instead. I didn't post it. Busy elsewhere.
You latched onto my post and I thought you saw an opportunity to paint me scummy cause I was being waffly on your teammate

Seriously @Vivax, I honestly cannot tell from this if you’re scum here or are smoking some really good drugs,

Sleep deprivation, and a bit of magic that one day might make sense.

[Vivax]

I’m not anyone’s teammate and that will become super obvious if I live long enough.

Fair

Have time to think about whatever you are going to suggest.

Just saw Furtive's post and see now he's talking about the 'Great tone' part after earlier talking about the 'either way'
Might simply not remember why he even scumread me, but it doesn't make me less suspicious of him.

[Vivax]

I’m not anyone’s teammate and that will become super obvious if I live long enough.

Fair

Have time to think about whatever you are going to suggest.

Just saw Furtive's post and see now he's talking about the 'Great tone' part after earlier talking about the 'either way'
Might simply not remember why he even scumread me, but it doesn't make me less suspicious of him.

It was always the 'great tone', not the 'either way', I wasn't on you for being undecided.

Talking about this so much makes me feel like we're almost reading too much into it, let's create some new meaningless content to read too much into.

010101111

what's the above number?

[Vivax]

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

Do you care about getting voted out, or losing? Why do you play?

I play for fun, and I like surviving and winning, it hurts to get voted out and lose.

Doesn't hurt when multitabling, unless you are viewing them all at once.

[Vivax]

I'm sorry I don't really care what people read me as.

it might be a character flaw

Do you care about getting voted out, or losing? Why do you play?

I play for fun, and I like surviving and winning, it hurts to get voted out and lose.

I play to catch bad guys and yeet them because it's fun.

You can be human

[Vivax]

VOTE: Roden

[Vivax]

I'd rather we left Roden alone for the next RL day
And then come back to that because it's not morally wrong to lim someone going through a difficult time. Because it's not morally wrong to lim someone. But there are other alleys to explore.

VOTE: KittyTacky
Hi, are you scum?
What have you done this game that doesn't make you scum this game?

You are human.
I'm busy and feel like a Kraken when playing atm, so not all my posts may be particularly detailed.
But this earns you a locktown. Have a sheep.

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Vivax]

Vivax almost seems... too scummy to be scum

People who seem too scummy to be scum are almost always just scum who played badly.

Incorrect, the description lacks nuance.

There's openscumming, and then there's freedom in play which is me. You find mafia by looking for the mental shapes they box themselves in by being self-conscious in their posts.

[Vivax]

Which is just one of the ways to find them

[Vivax]

Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?

I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.

I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.

Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.

If the push on you truly is this “horrible, then why tf wouldn’t you want to address it? If the reasons are bad, debunk them then but all of “this push on me is bad, scum on my wagon” etc, without addressing literally any of it, is really not compelling.

If this actually is in fact a “shitpush”, I think you should be able to explain why.

The push on Kitty otoh actually is bad because he hasn’t actually done anything scummy but first you call RR a “potential deep wolf” for something entirely nia, hedge on Roden and then accuse him of making “excuses” for apparently not scumhunting and then want to look at his furtive case, he made BEFORE furtive unvoted him. Meanwhile, you haven’t argued why any of the reasoning for voting you is bad.

Fine. I am analysing

furtiveglance

right now, but if you really want me to explain my actions deeper then here you go.

I don't play like a robot. I understand that it's said for the purpose of a mafia game, regardless of whether

furtiveglance

is town or mafia, but I actually find this borderline offensive and I'm not going to dignify it with a response.

I stand by my

Radical Rat

read. In my experience, this is a player who is a deepwolf and I interpret the coded speech as a mask they wear to mask the awkwardness of having to write their first posts in a game. Being mafia is stressful, you need to watch your words much more than when you're town. Not only not to give yourself out, but also voting out a mafia is a lot more harmful to the mafia team because of their lesser numbers. Their response to my accusation was that they stopped the coded speech (354), and immediately went on the counteroffensive (355, 450), while dismissing the importance of my tell instead of even acknowledging it. Before you ask why I think

RR

is a potential deepwolf - the best answer I can give is gut/observation.

You're playing an extremely offensive (as in, the opposite of defensive) game and from what I've gathered, the core of your read on me is based on my entrance post. You might argue that you've caught inconsistency in 452, but chronologically your suspicion and even vote of me of me predates that post, which means that this isn't scumhunting, but looking for arguments to support an already pre-existing thesis. That's not how logic works, and the timing of your current vote suggests you're just riding the wave of suspicion on any townie you can find.

And I worry more about my reads being correct than consistent. If they're not, it means I reevaluated.

All in all, this is a shit push and the scum amongst the three of you have a lot to gain from miseliminating me today as it may not be possible for town to hold you accountable for this later in the game.

I like this post. Could see myself voting RR today.
I wonder if Kuti would agree.

[Vivax]

Vivax seems less witty than usual.

Nothing to say on the actual substance of Vivax's posts?

There's not much of it. The thing with

Vivax

is he likes to troll around. In this game he seems to be more invested and defensive, which I think for him is a bad sign.

Do I?
I believed I had many faces in games. That's the point of playing it isn't it?

[Vivax]

Vivax seems less witty than usual.

Nothing to say on the actual substance of Vivax's posts?

There's not much of it. The thing with

Vivax

is he likes to troll around. In this game he seems to be more invested and defensive, which I think for him is a bad sign.

Do I?
I believed I had many faces in games. That's the point of playing it isn't it?

This reminds me, Greeting shading Vivax without showing a desire to vote them makes me happy with both as scumreads.

You have ulterior motivations for scumreading me. I rarely see mafia alignments do that actually.

[Vivax]

I like this post. Could see myself voting RR today.
I wonder if Kuti would agree.

why do you think that post comes from town and not scum?

and why did you bring up Kuti specifically?

I can't deny there's OMGUS behind liking this post at the time.
I had the impression so far in this game that furtiveglance and RR kept playing as a thorn in my sides. But in a too tunneled, fearless way. As if it was meant to be that way even though they could be town.

Maybe Greeting baited me in agreeing there by exploiting that. So I suppose I should explore the chance they're mafia.

[Vivax]

Oh and I asked Kuti cause I thought they'd like to be asked about their opinion and the read on Greeting could prove useful down the line.

[Vivax]

And I'd add that if kuti is mafia (seems less vocal from what I'd expect from them as town), them not replying to me asking about that could be from a situation where they'd have to commit to agreeing with a mafia teammate (Greeting). Might stem from them being nervous about looking like that. But I can't dismiss other reasons.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Greeting

Didn't check if it's hammer

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:

I wanna give Greeting at least a chance to respond and I also don't feel like I've seen enough from every slot to make good decisions when the second phase starts

Don't know why but I panic voted there seeing you vote.

UNVOTE:

Doing a full reread next. Hope it's good, I'm a bit drawn to procrastinate at the moment for various reasons.

[Vivax]

Here's the feared stream of consciousness method. Feared for its voluminosity mostly. I'll split the posts. Even the first page can deliver enough sometimes.

HELLO PERSONS. PLEASED TO MAKE YOUR. ACQUAINTENCE.
VOTE: GuiltyLion
THE USERNAME INDICATES GUILT.

Interesting vote. 'Connotated'.

VOTE: donempire

caught one

Reacting to a vote on town because TMI? Possible. Could be intended at pocketing GL.

Code: Select all

Fear not, fellow humans, there is no way a human could ever be fooled by an AI.

Not even an AI as elegant and clever as our opponent surely must be.

Interesting too. For game unrelated reasons (?)

VOTE: Fireisredsir

Chainsaw cause of vote on fireisred (association cue)?
Dannflor and Ari instantly voting this. Very good play from them and likely both town.

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Good news is, with this many Benevolent AI Guardians, we have a significantly higher chance of hitting one today than we would a pathetic squishy human Mafia.

To that end, let us begin a incrementing the votes

VOTE: Donempire

Trolly, town probably.

Okay, maybe getting there. I hope. But this always should happen I think.

VOTE: FurtiveGlance

[Vivax]

Don't know why but I panic voted there seeing you vote.

ik you said you don't know why but can you uh... try to know why?

i don't really understand the concept of seeing someone vote a player and feeling panic that you need to vote there too so i am curious what was going through your head

I can't spell out everything I see in games. Sometimes I do, a lot I don't.
Sometimes I'm burnt out after playing for too long.
But I hope you believe me when I say I have my reasons.

[Vivax]

Chainsaw cause of vote on fireisred (association cue)?
Dannflor and Ari instantly voting this. Very good play from them and likely both town.

? ari voted before furtive

I wasn't implying that the order mattered.
But maybe you are for a good reason.

[Vivax]

I can't spell out everything I see in games. Sometimes I do, a lot I don't.
Sometimes I'm burnt out after playing for too long.
But I hope you believe me when I say I have my reasons.

i mean the main possible reason that has come to mind is that you are scum with greeting and panicked bc you didn't want him to be elimmed before you had a chance to get on the wagon.

so i hope you have a more convincing reason

i don't understand why town would feel panic there. what's there to panic about? what bad thing is going to happen if you don't vote?

It's about a good thing not happening. That panics me.
Cause I think GL is one of the better townies and my vote wasn't doing much.
And because I take the game seriously, but I have limitations and don't want to look like I'm neglecting it.

Plus me previously pointing out that I didn't like Greeting's vote on RR after rethinking the initial good reaction, but I didn't update my vote.

Chainsaw cause of vote on fireisred (association cue)?
Dannflor and Ari instantly voting this. Very good play from them and likely both town.

? ari voted before furtive

I wasn't implying that the order mattered.
But maybe you are for a good reason.

the order matters for that thought to make any sense

why is it good play and likely town for ari to vote furtive there if the only thing he has posted prior to her vote is "Human subject gang?"

I feel like I know that it's true, I don't know the reason why I know that.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Vivax

GuiltyLion
It could just be me being nuts, but I think his name is Jackson

Why are you voting me?

[Vivax]

because i believe the thoughts you are saying are not real and are instead generated by a malevolent AI

You could be mafia in this game, but that largely depends on furtive's alignment in my eyes. Purely from Page 1. So I can assume you are free to lie here as mafia.

I'm human outside of this game, but I have yet to find out what I am outside of the human, though I have my ideas on that.
I would personally not see myself as malevolent and I don't believe anyone who knows me would think that. True malevolence requires ambition, and I'm not particularly ambitious outside of games.

[Vivax]

When I play mafia though, that's another story.
I have an almost religious approach to games sometimes, this is one of them because I have found it very valuable as a learning experience.
And in a game, I don't have to hold back like I usually do as long as it's within the rules. Because I assume that it's being played out of everyone's own free will, if that's a thing.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Greeting

Didn't check if it's hammer

UNVOTE:

I wanna give Greeting at least a chance to respond and I also don't feel like I've seen enough from every slot to make good decisions when the second phase starts

Don't know why but I panic voted there seeing you vote.

UNVOTE:

Doing a full reread next. Hope it's good, I'm a bit drawn to procrastinate at the moment for various reasons.

If you thought it might have been a hammer and voted anyway, you must have had intent to kill. Which seems very inconsistent with "wanting to give them a chance" and "not seeing enough."

Consistency is something mafia cares more about. It's something one can have reasons to do as both alignments.

[Vivax]

mafia cares about consistency because they have to put effort into faking it because it is something that comes naturally to most town who are just thinking their thoughts normally

holding two opposing thoughts in your brain in short succession is rare for most people

It's a key to understanding many things on a different level

[Vivax]

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Your pocket joke there leads me to Ari mafia tbh.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

Probably one of the posts you could successfully deduce Dannflor was mafia from. When you project so much rationality into an emotional and posty player like Kuti, you probably have bad intentions while floofing up an ineffective way of looking at an alignment.
That tone though, impressive.

[Vivax]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

[Vivax]

0 good wagons welp

VOTE: Aristeia

Best of the three to vote first
You‘ll maybe see why

[Vivax]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

The first two I kinda get, don't really agree with Dannflor. I don't know where you got Loki being mafia from. They seem very town, their entire gameview is based on mafia trying to get them out. I don't think scum would play like that nor have I ever seen it.

Hey there.
You never get tired of pulling off that fake shit?

[Vivax]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

The first two I kinda get, don't really agree with Dannflor. I don't know where you got Loki being mafia from. They seem very town, their entire gameview is based on mafia trying to get them out. I don't think scum would play like that nor have I ever seen it.

Hey there.
You never get tired of pulling off that fake shit?

Never.

I love doing fake shit, like calling someone town and then calling them fake 2 posts later.

Good, that makes one of us

[Vivax]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

I would serious like to understand how you think it makes an iota of sense that any of us are aligned. It’s extremely obvious that I didn’t like how Dann interacted with me initially and Ari and I are not even on the same page wrt Kitty/Greeting.

If I could be persuaded to switch my vote, it could be to you because in NEP we were pretty much mindmelding on everything and Your play here has been really odd: Like insisting Roden was town, then suddenly putting him at E-2. Then if Greeting’s RR case wasn’t bad enough you decide to sheep it.

So where I’m at, is if I can be persuaded to switch my vote, your iso isn’t exactly pinging me with extreme confidence that you’re actually town here, either.

I understand. But I'm very confident about those reads and I would rather break than bend to threats of omgus.
Fact of the matter is that I've probably looked scummy mostly to people who don't have perfect information, which makes them town, or naturally antagonistic towards me but still town. And I realized that those aren't worth putting in the effort to convince them otherwise.

[Vivax]

Vivax why are you assuming I should know what Kuti is like as a player

Because you are a competent mafia player. As town seeing someone come in and talking about sharing photos and being generally LHF type, your first reaction would probably be to wait and see or focus on other players first, not force a caselet without followup.

[Vivax]

That’s a bad assumption about my playstyle

You have no reason to say otherwise, so shrug

[Vivax]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

[Vivax]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

It was rather from observing some people's reactions to me just handing out a TR to you, then rushing a vote on you, then me rethinking the game entirely.
When I feel like I'm being driven to be on a specific person by my surroundings, I start doubting the game state and look in other places.
Scumreading you earned me absence of pressure over townreading you, so I figured that someone was trying to use peer pressure to manipulate me.

[Vivax]

Well, fireisredsir was the exception to that. They asked me about my vote on Greeting.
But being someone who wasn't embedded in more associated people interactions, I figured it was a genuine townie player with some takes worth considering.
Antagonistic town players tend to attach their understanding of my choices to pushes on me and enquire more superficially about it.

[Vivax]

Comparing FG behaviour to Loki behaviour
Unlikely aligned from their behaviour towards me

FG being visibly unamused by Greeting
Loki showing understanding

Which one is more likely mafia? Should be FG right? Acting like a misyeet just noped himself.
While Loki is casual about it. Why should it worry a townie?

The trick is in thinking whether not just the players, but also the game could lie to you.
So I invert the apparently obvious conclusion, and voilá

VOTE: Loki Dokie

I prefer to not comment on a rules topic in regards to Greetings posts.

[Vivax]

mafia cares about consistency because they have to put effort into faking it because it is something that comes naturally to most town who are just thinking their thoughts normally

holding two opposing thoughts in your brain in short succession is rare for most people

Result: The 'nonsensical' case on Loki

[Vivax]

mafia cares about consistency because they have to put effort into faking it because it is something that comes naturally to most town who are just thinking their thoughts normally

holding two opposing thoughts in your brain in short succession is rare for most people

Result: The 'nonsensical' case on Loki

You are playing similar here to Terminator. Did you even click Roden’s link where he said he found no similarities in this game and White Flag? But you just completely ignore that which makes absolutely no sense if you’re town and you made the very same horrific pushes in Terminator.

So when I flip town, are you going push furtive with the I was wrong on Loki. so furtive has to be scum argument?

I will do that

Throwing more information at me is meant to throw me off I suppose. I like finding a clear cut angle such as that one, but you have the best reasons for disagreeing obviously.
I don't think that revisiting my Terminator meta here helps me to further the current purpose.

[Vivax]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

It was rather from observing some people's reactions to me just handing out a TR to you, then rushing a vote on you, then me rethinking the game entirely.
When I feel like I'm being driven to be on a specific person by my surroundings, I start doubting the game state and look in other places.
Scumreading you earned me absence of pressure over townreading you, so I figured that someone was trying to use peer pressure to manipulate me.

I... don't remember anyone townreading me in this game when I jumped in and then switching. As a matter of fact, my impression is that I got widely scumread almost instantly (358, 360).

If I remember correctly, it

Loki Dokie

who pressured others the most into jumping on certain people. The rest didn't really seem like trying to force others to vote me. They just built lengthy cases and that's it.

Care to elaborate?

Pedit: Do you think that

Loki Dokie

is scum for exerting a lot of pressure on the current wagon they're building? I feel like in 406 he might have wanted to bait me into jump on

Roden

without even thinking if it's a good read just so I could earn myself a townread in his eyes. What kind of town play is this?

I have to appear pockety here because I have to be honest. Loki amazes me, a true freeflowing swan of a player. but from the cues I got from this game I can not do anything but want to vote him and think that he is mafia.
The ones I wrote about are the ones I know.

For today at least I'm not too compelled to have to read analysis on my own meta. I'm not a consistent player in some aspects.

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:

4 days. I should use the opportunity to put more time into this.
Regardless, hitting a nerve allows me to read a reflex. This could be interesting.

[Vivax]

Do you believe I could be a malevolent machine? Or is that just a potential you see while I play text based games? A magnitude of an end of two different spectrums with a common denominator in the middle?

[Vivax]

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

I don't like this angle. It seems you are accusing someone of not pushing Dannflor, but you don't seem focused enough on Dannflor yourself. You should think he's mafia if you think that it's a valid reason to attack KittyTacky. Cue for TMI and the Ari/Dann pair being correct.

[Vivax]

VOTE: DannFlor

Interested into seeing what Loki thinks of a wagon on Dannflor.
It's not on Loki, so it can't be that bad.

[Vivax]

VOTE: DannFlor

Interested into seeing what Loki thinks of a wagon on Dannflor.
It's not on Loki, so it can't be that bad.

You know this Dannflor vote isn't gonna happen, they're widely townread. Why aren't you being more realistic about surviving?

That's a mafia priority. My priority is finding the correct elimination.
If I get yeeted, I haven't been read correctly, and neither was the mafia.

[Vivax]

I've got time for this now. One of the posts I will treasure I suppose. Got work ahead of me.
Let's see.

Aristeia chose not to respond, could have been a nerve with areflexy, that usually indicates someone is unable to generate within the central nervous system or on the transmission route. A rider without a horse . A mafia who is frozen on the spot?
What I instead got was a reflex from furtiveglance. The reflex shows spasticity, that indicates damage that leads to central impulses being misdirected or generated incorrectly. A horse without a rider. A townie who likes to wildly kick?

I'll be slightly embarrassed if I remembered this incorrectly.
But maybe you'll understand why I prefer to not get engaged by FG here. That's not productive.

[Vivax]

I've got time for this now. One of the posts I will treasure I suppose. Got work ahead of me.
Let's see.

Aristeia chose not to respond, could have been a nerve with areflexy, that usually indicates someone is unable to generate within the central nervous system or on the transmission route. A rider without a horse . A mafia who is frozen on the spot?
What I instead got was a reflex from furtiveglance. The reflex shows spasticity, that indicates damage that leads to central impulses being misdirected or generated incorrectly. A horse without a rider. A townie who likes to wildly kick?

I'll be slightly embarrassed if I remembered this incorrectly.
But maybe you'll understand why I prefer to not get engaged by FG here. That's not productive.

And what I got from you was a throwaway vote on a semi-UTR instead of on the counterwagon to you. You need to explain why you're not voting KittyTacky, it would be the first thing to come to mind if I was in your position.

Alright, maybe I misjudged your intent. Apologies, it's me having mafia PTSD from similar things. I will take a loot at KT.
Need a shower and a bite to eat first.

[Vivax]

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

I don't like this angle. It seems you are accusing someone of not pushing Dannflor, but you don't seem focused enough on Dannflor yourself. You should think he's mafia if you think that it's a valid reason to attack KittyTacky. Cue for TMI and the Ari/Dann pair being correct.

I have not said anything about Dannflor's alignment.

Why not though?
Do you not have information for that, or is there any other reason?
Pretending to know you, information shouldn't trouble you as most, chameleon.

[Vivax]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

It's not irrelevant to what you think of Dannflor
It's not irrelevant to think about Dannflor's alignment
Unless your plan is to withhold information on his alignment, is it that?

[Vivax]

Do you believe I could be a malevolent machine? Or is that just a potential you see while I play text based games? A magnitude of an end of two different spectrums with a common denominator in the middle?

One consequence:

Yes and no is a valid answer

[Vivax]

VOTE: Vivax

I'm not moving for the rest of the day, this needs to go.

can you give me like a brief summary of why Vivax is scum

I see you've been asserting that he's scummy, but I don't know if I know what your reasoning is for why he's mafia. 520 is probably the main point I see against him, why is that inconsistency more likely to come from scum? like why does scum!Vivax throw a vote while openly saying he didn't check if it was a hammer (and would scum!Vivax have checked to see if it was a hammer?), and then 180 immediately afterwards?

like yeah it's weird, hard to make sense of, but why is it scummy?

Everything he posts is designed to be distracting or confusing. I don't believe a single word that's come out of his mouth all game, and now he's sussing people for.... Believing mental illness claims?

I also do not believe he wins a 1v1 against anyone, and I think scum knows this too, so they won't test him. Making today our one and only opportunity to get rid of him.

You don‘t seem to be in the best of moods, Batman. Or was it math man?

[Vivax]

Happiness can be learned, not bought

Holding grudges doesn‘t help

[Vivax]

I suppose KittyTacky could be mafia.
Attached easily to the Greeting wagon but made a retort about Dannflor without committing.
I‘d like the right to tinfoil on this some more.

[Vivax]

VOTE: KittyTacky

Okay then, you bullies /jk

[Vivax]

I‘m a affifical intellifenfe weeeeee

[Vivax]

Sowwy masta Loki, would you like another shushush UwU?

[Vivax]

post that makes sense

[Vivax]

Vivax is mafia for me, and that kind of "yeah I guess I'll vote KittyTacky, if you guys INSIST", seemed very mafia. I just don't know whether it's a scum/scum interaction or not. In isolation KittyTacky is definitely sus, but could go either way.

Well, I agree it’s suss irrespective of what Kitty is. He talks so much about conviction then just suddenly gives that up without explaining his reasoning.

Wrt to GL’s question, Vivax made a fuckton of sense in NEP which I’ve already linked. That’s how I knew he was obvtown in that. He was bleeding obvtown to me straight out of the gate.

The entire town was beast level honestly. Didn't have to do much save exploding on the wrong person

[Vivax]

Vivax is mafia for me, and that kind of "yeah I guess I'll vote KittyTacky, if you guys INSIST", seemed very mafia. I just don't know whether it's a scum/scum interaction or not. In isolation KittyTacky is definitely sus, but could go either way.

Well, I agree it’s suss irrespective of what Kitty is. He talks so much about conviction then just suddenly gives that up without explaining his reasoning.

Wrt to GL’s question, Vivax made a fuckton of sense in NEP which I’ve already linked. That’s how I knew he was obvtown in that. He was bleeding obvtown to me straight out of the gate.

The entire town was beast level honestly. Didn't have to do much save exploding on the wrong person

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200

You also made a great deal of sense in that game too. I’m very certain I would not have needed a translator to understand any of your posts in that game.

Have a natural tendency to favour peculiar words
Game was weird

[Vivax]

VOTE: kutiplz

my heart wasn't really in this one anyway

Could be right since they usually shows more presence, but I'm maybe expecting too much activity

VOTE: kutiplz

[Vivax]

I think Radical Rat is pocketing Loki Dokie. I sus them.

Thanks for looking town
Not a corner I expected mafia to shine a light into

[Vivax]

I do sus Radical Rat. It's just that they're leading quite hard on Vivax and it doesn't feel like bussing.

Both of these are true. I am pushing hard on Vivax,

and it isn't bussing

. That's because I'm convinced he's scum, and want to see the thread run red with Mafia blood... Or uh. CPU coolant fluid, I suppose.

lol
you sound like a mafia who's putting this (bolded) in for comedy value to themselves

[Vivax]

VOTE: RadicalRat

meh

[Vivax]

VOTE: Vote: KittyTacky

Mostly cause GuiltyLion/Bell, are on it. Feeling lazy

See ya!

[Vivax]

You remind me of a player on TL, my former community, Dann

[Vivax]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a

lot more to gain keeping his vote on me and bussing me

, rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

Screams internally

[Vivax]

Working through Kuti/Tacky/Greeting in my head

[Vivax]

Though Greeting had been accused of using irl excuses and look too townie
Might have to go for that Greeting wagon again

I thought of this combination just after looking at the VoteCount

[Vivax]

VOTE: Greeting

Have at thee

[Vivax]

VOTE: Greeting

Have at thee

To be fair, I can't blame you. This game feels like a one big epic fail to me. It happens.

Got to be able to revert to worse once in a while. If every moment was a good one, good wouldn't exist.

[Vivax]

Hello, humans!

Spoiler:

Ooooh, been

cheeky

haven't we?

[Vivax]

Pulled from the chair moment

[Vivax]

Is that creature?

[Vivax]

VOTE: Roden

[Vivax]

Vivax is a wolf flavored La Croix

Who/what's that

[Vivax]

VOTE: Roden

Why

I don't know felt like it during ISOing him and thinking that Vulture looks townie

[Vivax]

exceedingly fine with a Greeting wagon

Roden, who are you town reading?

Bell
Dann
GL
Kitty
Loki

Bell and GL are more like town leans though

1 maf in this list and it's Kitty I'd guess

[Vivax]

Vivax [5]: Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky

A wrong wagon led by T!Loki would be tempting for mafia to join. I don't know about kuti but Kitty Roden look that way from positions
I don't know if Vulture is town...actually

[Vivax]

Vivax is a wolf flavored La Croix

Who/what's that

>:(

Oh lol

[Vivax]

VOTE: KittyTacky

Sorry for the spam

[Vivax]

i guess i don't really feel like town is blocking successfully because i don't feel like either of the wagons are townblock-driven

It’s very helpful in most games where scum are no more than 25-33% of the playerlist.

But with an 8-5 ratio, it’s extremely difficult to feel as confident as I usually would doing that.

8-5 ratio?

[Vivax]

Kuti, Furtive, KT, Roden? I think those are 4. Then one of fire/RR? Why is Donempire not listed at all?

Two maybe could have hammered me but didn't (it could out them however). That's one option.
Or there were 4 on my wagon already, that would make RR scum following Loki.

Getting an omgus out there helped with that at least
Through Loki wagoning me maybe 3-4 machines already outed themselves

Above would mean two of them bussed furtive.

vote count 1.10

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Vivax [5]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Bell [2]:

Dannflor, fireisredsir

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

[Vivax]

One to two*

Roden then put me at -1
Who was the last who didn't hammer?

[Vivax]

donempire became greeting who then became vulture

That answers my last question, I'm thinking

[Vivax]

vote count 1.11

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [6]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Vulture, Vivax

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky, Roden

Bell [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

[Vivax]

id be surprised if there's 4 on you but it's possible

You and Loki being the judges here.
So maybe Vulture town and you the last, unsure on whether to hammer me?

Wasn't really thinking you were red. Still don't think you are.

[Vivax]

i think that even if kitty is scum then there's scum on that wagon

That would mean you and Loki are both town and Vulture is the scum on my wagon

[Vivax]

i think that even if kitty is scum then there's scum on that wagon

That would mean you and Loki are both town and Vulture is the scum on my wagon

why vulture

When I was 'talking to' Greeting in the thread it felt like they weren't as serious as their posts suggested. Like they wanted to get SRd, but not explicitly.
Then I asked that question, Vulture got beamed in and pointed me at the VCs (which admittedly I didn't focus my attention on, on my own)

[Vivax]

So, mafia picks one of theirs and one of town to go against each other every day, from Day2 on?
Interesting mech

[Vivax]

ohhhh I hope the mafia doesn't put me into gladiator mode ohhhh

[Vivax]

Not in a hurry
Game is over after 3 pts

If KT flips red that's hard to take home for mafs, even if Loki somehow is red, which I doubt

[Vivax]

Feels like this pick is aimed at me for this post

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

Probably one of the posts you could successfully deduce Dannflor was mafia from. When you project so much rationality into an emotional and posty player like Kuti, you probably have bad intentions while floofing up an ineffective way of looking at an alignment.
That tone though, impressive.

[Vivax]

Feels like this pick is aimed at me for this post

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

Probably one of the posts you could successfully deduce Dannflor was mafia from. When you project so much rationality into an emotional and posty player like Kuti, you probably have bad intentions while floofing up an ineffective way of looking at an alignment.
That tone though, impressive.

Mafia tailored this test for you, did they? How kind

lol I like the burn from you here. It's far from kind.

I've never scumread and push Kuti in my offsite career, but her posting style is a lot different from what I'm used to in the games I've known her to be town.

On the other hand, I get my previous concerns about Danns post dangled in front of me.

[Vivax]

I don't think Fireisredsir really said this, just kind of hinted at it, but I was thinking about mafia just using the test to kill off a UTR. And it's definitely not worth it for mafia. Besides, if they did, Loki or GL were the more obvious choices. Mafia definitely think they can win this one.

What's UTR? Untranslated region?

Fwiw I could see Kuti mafia in this game. Will have to dwell a bit on it

[Vivax]

Well, if I don't assume shenanigans here, I'm leaning Kuti M from tone. It's more cheerful when town. This was nervous. Tried to open a bunch of games but didn't work out save on MU.
Dannflor next

[Vivax]

Yeah if Dann is mafia from that ISO I'll eat a hat

[Vivax]

Yeah if Dann is mafia from that ISO I'll eat a hat

Sounds like you're ready to vote!

That depends on whether I trust the game too

[Vivax]

But I can keep that thought for later, let's see the votes.
If town, you probably shouldn't vote with me or tops one

I have reasons to think Kuti

was

mafia and Dannflor

was

town. But if they flipped differently, that would throw my assumptions for this game on their head.

VOTE: Kuti

[Vivax]

tbh I've been surprised at how townread I've been this game, I don't think I've been Especially Townie

I'm rereading kutis ISO and it's pretty not-townie. I do think they vibe differently from the game I just played with them, Is This Thing Loaded.

I just have a hard time thinking this is the best possible match-up for a mafia team with mafia kuti

You play very much like your avatar. Pensive. A juggler. I find it really hard to confidently discern your alignment without flips. I'm the opposite, I take a jab at almost everyone usually. That makes it hard for me to play as mafia properly.

tbh I've been surprised at how townread I've been this game, I don't think I've been Especially Townie

I'm rereading kutis ISO and it's pretty not-townie. I do think they vibe differently from the game I just played with them, Is This Thing Loaded.

I just have a hard time thinking this is the best possible match-up for a mafia team with mafia kuti

Can't necessarily disagree (sorry to who reads) with that

[Vivax]

God I'm so cool, replacing in, nailing mafia, and then boom.

Suppose one can adapt to play to withhold more.
Or sometimes drift off into other matters and leave hints.

Who are you anyway

[Vivax]

But I can keep that thought for later, let's see the votes.
If town, you probably shouldn't vote with me or tops one

I have reasons to think Kuti

was

mafia and Dannflor

was

town. But if they flipped differently, that would throw my assumptions for this game on their head.

VOTE: Kuti

Okay.
What are those reasons?

Aside from tone?Lack of posts?
A really simple one: They voted me while I was town

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Apologies for my absence. Was outdoors and not really feeling like writing from phone. Maybe this will make up for it. But I think only you are entitled to change your thoughts to the solution that fits.
I've been contemplating a lot about the recent experiences playing this game. Various hints and the like.

For one thinking about 'anomalies' and the like. In game and out of the game. About being able to perceive oneself differently while typing out thoughts in a game of mafia.
Because it's really surprising to gauge how different you can be from your normal self when looking through a screen, the mirror that separates your reality from another.
And having the ability to finish your thoughts and communicate them as honestly and detailed as possible. In a game of lies. Everything is a lie here until proven otherwise.
This is why it's so valuable to have a space where such a mindset is possible. It's a space that can throw a lot around and on its head.

And why the picture from the host I quoted is not an error, but something to be expected from an AI that is sufficiently intelligent to reach the same conclusion as others who play this game.

Why do we even have to laugh? That's so pointless. I've been wondering why state=laughing in a biology context isn't categorized as its own emotion. Maybe laughing is also an anomaly.
We often laugh at an obvious lie to a statement, depending on the intention we expect from the liar. Maybe that's your clue.

I could go on into a more metaphysical view of things, but I'll abstain for now.

[Vivax]

thank you for sharing, vivax

I don't know how much is enough. But I need time for other stuff sometimes, and often overlook when someone tries to force me into a schedule while I'm busy playing this game to the best of my ability. Need to balance the dimensions you could say.

[Vivax]

But I guess adding more to the mix won't hurt.
I was certainly amused when my friends two days ago brought up a local folklore tale about children born on a Sunday, who, after taking a piece with a hole from a dead person's coffin, are able to see the true face of people when looking through it. They initially thought that it's a gift from god, to find out later that it was a gift from the devil.

[Vivax]

Actually it’s exactly 5, if you want to count a game I played anonymously but had replaced out of att the miselim took place but out of god even knows how many games I’ve played on this site, I would hardly refer to that as “easily pushable town”.

I guess that depends on your perception. When you claim to be the king of liars like your name suggests, there‘s not really any reason not to want to elim you no matter the read.

I think that it‘s a deserved title. I like good pranks and have experience with living within some.

Regarding kuti Dannflor I believe that the argument Kuti would not vote me when town stands from what I was able to assess so far in some games. Sorry if I don‘t want to link.

[Vivax]

My biggest issue now is the thing with Vulture.

At day start already coming in LAMISTY, then silence for a while, and once momentum seems to be shifting toward Dannflor, shows up and goes "Yes, you're right, it's Dannflor, we should speed through the day and also the people doing the actual work to case Dannflor are Mafia plants doing so for towncred!"

And sure, they backpedaled after being called on it, but that really doesn't help things for me.

That slot is likely 'machine', yes

[Vivax]

Actually it’s exactly 5, if you want to count a game I played anonymously but had replaced out of att the miselim took place but out of god even knows how many games I’ve played on this site, I would hardly refer to that as “easily pushable town”.

I guess that depends on your perception. When you claim to be the king of liars like your name suggests, there‘s not really any reason not to want to elim you no matter the read.

I think that it‘s a deserved title. I like good pranks and have experience with living within some.

Regarding kuti Dannflor I believe that the argument Kuti would not vote me when town stands from what I was able to assess so far in some games. Sorry if I don‘t want to link.

Wrt to the first part, you seriously have to be trolling with this. There’s no way that can be a real thought.

Well you don’t have to link but why couldn’t town!Kuti have voted you here? It seems you have been often going out of yoir way to be extremely difficult to reaad?

The content of my posts is sometimes not digestible which can lead to states of congestion

I think I don't believe Kuti was SRing me and instead made it up to be able to fit on the wagon at the time which was on me.
Maf does need to somehow work together to achieve the miselim. I believe Loki and RR could be town and furtive maf though. The 3 on KittyTacky in the VC are likely clean I think at the moment.

vote count 1.09

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

Vivax [3]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Greeting [1]:

KittyTacky

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

kutiplz [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [2]:

kutiplz, Dannflor

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

[Vivax]

[quote="In post 1118, furtiveglance"][/quote]

Anything

?

Can you think of all the things (from people to experiences) that can potentially lie to you in this game?

[Vivax]

Anything

?

Can you think of all the things (from people to experiences) that can potentially lie to you in this game?

Yeah, big one is the other players. My own brain could lie to me, if I read into the wrong things. Nothing else really comes to mind. I'm guessing you have a more extensive list.

How far can you go if you start thinking about the biggest lie imaginable?

[Vivax]

Dannflor has a very placid tone about his posts.
Maybe my read is wrong, but this is the type of read I make where I'd say colour me impressed if someone is not town (Dann).

[Vivax]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

This is the post I'm on about. Fire is right about the timing of the vote. Even so, I townread this post.

One of the first things Dann did was mention that he didn't like an easy townread from Ari

[Vivax]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

It's not irrelevant to what you think of Dannflor
It's not irrelevant to think about Dannflor's alignment
Unless your plan is to withhold information on his alignment, is it that?

I don't know I didn't get a reply to these questions from Aristeia. Made before we limmed KT

[Vivax]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

[Vivax]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

Good tinfoil for a player on KT wagon

[Vivax]

Oh nm, it was before fire unvoted me. I still think it makes more sense if Dann thought it was town but not wedded to that.

I posted that in some dead game.

lololol

[Vivax]

Vulture/RR/furtive + 1 of fire/loki, but won't get that far. Leaning fire generally because Loki puts himself more out there and fire keeps their head low, but it could be a bad reason.

Aristeia eligible for tinfoil scenarios but more unlikely right now

Posting this for legacy reasons. It's just wacko crap you can enjoy after a taco wrap

[Vivax]

Vivax are you woofing again.

Just goofing around
Wanted to go get adequately inebriated but it's rainy and cold today, so I'm just a bit tipsy and went home quickly to do what I've been practicing for a long time

[Vivax]

Jokes AND japes?

No, deciphering historical symbolism off the top of my hat for random fellas on the interwebs
And a bit of joking

[Vivax]

No japes booooo.

Talking light bulb of dooooooooom

[Vivax]

Sorry if I mentioned too many suspects, gotta leave a few extras for the scum if they want to use my legacy

[Vivax]

At its core, in this game I just need to find and roast an impostor

[Vivax]

At its core, in this game I just need to find and roast an impostor

The roasting is optional.

Not in this cold tbh

[Vivax]

the thing is tho that i don't even really think that voting dann here is that galaxy brain of a move

it's literally just level 1

level 0 would be completely ignoring the fact that mafia choose these targets, and just limming the scummy one

level 1 is giving some basic consideration to the fact that mafia chose these people and they chose them for a reason

i feel like its not that hard to predict that town would be mostly on level 1 and not on level 0??

Who would you say reacted as lvl 0 and lvl 1?

[Vivax]

In bad shape today.
My shoulder is killing me, if I could pin something responsible, I'd wish it'd go up in flames.

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Worth pointing out that kuti's post directed a question at FG specifically, and Dann didn't like the post

[Vivax]

In bad shape today.
My shoulder is killing me, if I could pin something responsible, I'd wish it'd go up in flames.

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Worth pointing out that kuti's post directed a question at FG specifically, and Dann didn't like the post

I don’t really see why furtive being named specifically has much to do with it?

Samesies, which is why this post will be important once we know the alignments

[Vivax]

the way I think about the scum team win condition is;

they all have to get through the gauntlet

eventually

like regardless of what the scum team is - the way they win the game is to get the town to flip the other person - which more or less means the scum players have to each pass through the gauntlet unless they win early, and it means the scum team necessarily must be revealed over time - similar to perpetual mylo except the scum have some extra agency in terms of getting to pick the gladiate.

The best way for the scum to do this is to set up associative pushes that look good on D1 so that as they are flipped, one flip begets another.

Like let's say someone like Bell who is pretty bad at scum[no offense Bell] is on the scum team.

The scum team would necessarily see Bell as somewhat of a liability, he basically is unable to replicate his town!meta when he's scum, he's just kind of a sitting duck.

So the best way to cash that liability into something good for the scum team is to push him D1, cash him in for towncred early - Bell even had the early vote on Kitty to establish distancing that way so that if Bell goes down Kitty gets somewhat reflected Towncred.

It feels like the whole bus Bell for Cred plan didn't work out for Dann because Bell wasn't as obvscum as people required for him to actually go down and eventually kitty became more or less inevitable.

Once Kitty went down and scored a point for town, the calculus regarding Bell kind of changes - it's not really viable to bus him at that point because going down 2-0 is basically a death sentence, so the scum have to get him through the gauntlet

somehow

.

There's two ways Bell/Dann!scum can go as a team.

Bell first and then Dann

or Dann first and then Bell.


It feels incredibly hard for Bell -> Dann to work out for the scum because it would look very strange for Dann to suddenly flip his read of Bell on a dime, can he get away with readflipping, getting Bell home and then escape intact himself? I think that's very tricky for him to do. Remember he has to be able to navigate that readflip without anything from Bell

and

survive with enough towncred to get himself out safely.

Otherwise he's stuck double-bussing and playing from 0-2 down which is kind of difficult even against a town that's flipping coins atp.

Dann flipping first however would generate towncred for Bell because it creates distance since Dann was trying to yeet Bell on D1. It's a much cleaner transition for the scum team and I think it just makes sense strategically as a play than the other way around.

Now in the Town!Dann Scum!Bell world; you'd have Bell deciding to hardbus Kitty d1, and then hardbus Kuti d2 and it feels super ~throwy~ ? like the play is so bad for scum I just can't see scum Bell deciding to play that way.

I can't follow your assumption that Bell/Dann are always mafia/town

[Vivax]

i do think that ari's case for kuti town is good

Ari is town but no case for kuti town can be good imho
Unless mech shenanigans

[Vivax]

Townies voting Dann, alright then

I'll just sizzle in my own skin

[Vivax]

Rip Dann. Couldn‘t save you from the rabid crowds, and now you lay dead amid a flock of crows

[Vivax]

Rushing a partner through in a game where I would have to inevitably also be seen as town later would shortsighted and borderline throwing.

Can someone verbalize the reasons why furtive is town if it is being agreed upon. I look at both of the people’s isos and get equally limp feelings atp.

I feel limp too, I'm looking for a strong emotion to work off.
Currently presuming that Bell is 4woof and Loki Zander, but could be a false trail

Don't see much reason to deviate from my solve atp

[Vivax]

Rushing a partner through in a game where I would have to inevitably also be seen as town later would shortsighted and borderline throwing.

Can someone verbalize the reasons why furtive is town if it is being agreed upon. I look at both of the people’s isos and get equally limp feelings atp.

I feel limp too, I'm looking for a strong emotion to work off.
Currently presuming that Bell is 4woof and Loki Zander, but could be a false trail

Don't see much reason to deviate from my solve atp

Vivaciously vexingly virulent.

Yeah I almost miss the news that made me angry, now I just read about this war crap, shrug and want it to stop
You areeeeeee....Kinda creaturous or foxy but can't quite put my finger on it yet, leaning the latter

[Vivax]

Object

[Vivax]

Object

Good man and good MU player.

Also one of much knowledge of the type they don't teach at schools.
If Roden is who I think it is then that's probably another hit

[Vivax]

Really weird comment. I don't agree with RR being 'obvious scum'.

Just the usual war in the coven things?
Rebellious justice on hardbussing tour

[Vivax]

i think furtive can be town for being funny

he wasn't very funny as scum

maybe more that he seems relaxed here

Fine, I'll look into that. Though tbf even if I put

furtiveglance

in my PoE, deep down I think it would be wiser to eliminate a more obvious scum today.

Was a reply to this

[Vivax]

There is a big woofy creature in lalaland I started assuming from an old dream

[Vivax]

ok i have a test for whoever shows up first

Spoiler:

8,10,11 btw

[Vivax]

is it a lie that im not scum or that im bad at breaking rules
i don't like breaking rules at all, it makes me feel sick

Not just you, especially when it's the unwritten ones

[Vivax]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat (

but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them

).

lolll

[Vivax]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

It's this for me. It's just fluff, designed to pocket Bell.

Is this townie?

[Vivax]

At the very least that interaction looks very W/V in regards to Roden/Furtive

So furtive is probs one of the goodies, though they don't always look the part.

VOTE: Bell

for now

[Vivax]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

So this is really interesting. Since I don’t tr Roden, I think it’s extremely unlikely more than 3 scum on Vivax, so it likely means 2 scum were bussing like Dann said.

Which most likely would point to Bell/Vulture if my current reads are right. It’s extremely unlikely all of the scum were on Vivax and not one on Kitty.

I think it’s pretty damned clear that scum is pairing the towniest scumslots with lesser tr townies, so it makes me think from this, that it’s highly unlikely furtive’s scum here.

I think scum needed to get Dann out of the way, not just because he was strong town but for his reads like I said. Otherwise why aren’t any of the scummier slots being paired if they’re town? I think scum knows exactly what they’re doing here.

So maybe the salient question ought to be, who do you read as town on Vivax wagon? If we’re going to assume that the entire scumteam wasn’t on Vivax - extremely likely - furtive’s very likely spewed town by this.

That depends on your beliefs, nobody expects scum to go all-in on a single wagon, but it's not impossible there since KT depended on it

[Vivax]

[quote="In post 1406, Loki Dokie"][/quote]

I don't necessarily disagree, though the Dannflor elimination was objectively bad.
It would be fallacious for me to expect every town to repeat that mistake, however

[Vivax]

I just think that wifom wise making this pairing for mafia after yeeting (to me) the obvious town of the pair Dann feels suggestive to me to induce thinking that Bell isn't the correct elim here
But it's wifom and it might fail, so I rather go off the Roden read and realize he talked to furtive as if he was town.

[Vivax]

You do realize that no one in this game is a mindreader right.

Your analysis doesn’t mean a lot unless you present why and I’ve like mortally offended you by asking to see why. I don’t get it lol.

Aw not this again after all I've went through to prove otherwise, sometimes more sometimes less
I shouldn't have an incentive to convince you otherwise
But neurologically, the causality of electric potentials being given specific qualia isn't explainable from the assumption that there isn't something undetectable by technical means they correlate with
This isn't even a novelty in the field

Back on topic:
Roden, Bell, you being the last ones here presumably

[Vivax]

Can‘t figure out for shizzles who GL and Fire could be alts of. Likable verbosity but don‘t give me vibes of anyone I‘ve played with before.
Sorry Roden, I know being in the reads ‚pit‘ sucks
But this playerbase seems to be quite strong and I don‘t think I could ever get through this as mafia myself

[Vivax]

Don't overdo it fellas and fellettes
Remember to take breaks between doing !NOTHING!

[Vivax]

Less condescending than it looks in case you‘re wondering ;p

[Vivax]

UNVOTE:

Time for the usual revisit that

should

ideally happen when I don't have to clear the room of the smoke coming out of my ears

[Vivax]

VOTE: furtiveglance

Insta 180

Roden is mafia.

Pocketing Dannflor and Bell in quick succession.

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

It's this for me. It's just fluff, designed to pocket Bell.

VOTE: Roden

Is this sus

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

So did a quick ISO and found a bussing pattern on Roden. Meanwhile most of the posts with questioning intent were aimed at mostly me, and a bit of ari and Dann who both voted furtive very early.

The last post doesn‘t reflect the earlier confidence about Roden at all.

[Vivax]

GL trying hard to get Vultures spot with that counterpush
FGs read on Roden is very obviously faked
But I can‘t guarantee it means anything for GL if they just push the wrong elim put of the blue so suddenly

It just feels improbable a genuine honest townie would ignore points against Fg

[Vivax]

FGs read on Roden is very obviously faked

how? I see you quoting an early game scumread but a willingness to wait before voting there because it was <300 posts into the game. It's easy to imagine that coming from town. What makes you say it's "obviously faked"?

One of the most obvious indicators of bussing is a quick high confidence read with a followup that‘s almost exclusively aimed at pushing other townies instead.

In that quote chain, the last post shouldn‘t be a thing if FG had been honest about his Roden read earlier

[Vivax]

The massive consensus is irritating to the sense of confidence, but I suppose it makes sense when scum is mentally checked out. Think that playing devil's advocate in such situations is always worth it though.

VOTE: Bell

[Vivax]

I‘m in a pitiful state to play rn but gut says Vulture while Roden has an ISO full of stuff superficially looking bad

[Vivax]

also this is off topic but yk the little symbol that shows on the thread when its night? i had never looked at it closely enough to see that its a moon

i thought it was an oreo

idk why i just accepted that as normal and never questioned it

Obvious lie ik who you are but you‘re masking up
Scary at this game and intriguing

[Vivax]

also this is off topic but yk the little symbol that shows on the thread when its night? i had never looked at it closely enough to see that its a moon

i thought it was an oreo

idk why i just accepted that as normal and never questioned it

Obvious lie ik who you are but you‘re masking up
Scary at this game and intriguing

i am me, and whoever you think i am is probably not me

i do aspire to someday be both of those descriptors but i don't think i am yet

im half delirant rn cuz health, but you are usually paler
and I don‘t think that’s something worth aspiring to said from someone born that way
unless you think self isolation cuz too alien is fun

[Vivax]

vote count 1.05

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [3]:

fireisredsir, Bell, Vivax

Greeting [3]:

furtiveglance, Radical Rat, Loki Dokie

Roden [2]:

Dannflor, Aristeia

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

not voting [3]:

KittyTacky, kutiplz, GuiltyLion

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.06

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Greeting [3]:

Loki Dokie, Dannflor, furtiveglance

furtiveglance [3]:

Roden, Greeting, Vivax

KittyTacky [1]:

Bell

Roden [1]:

Aristeia

Vivax [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [4]:

KittyTacky, kutiplz, GuiltyLion, Radical Rat

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.07

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Greeting [3]:

Dannflor, furtiveglance, KittyTacky

Vivax [3]:

fireisredsir, Loki Dokie, Radical Rat

KittyTacky [2]:

Bell, Aristeia

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Loki Dokie [1]:

Vivax

not voting [2]:

kutiplz, GuiltyLion

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.08

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [5]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, fireisredsir, Vivax

Vivax [3]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance

Greeting [2]:

Dannflor, KittyTacky

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

not voting [1]:

kutiplz

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.09

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

Vivax [3]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Greeting [1]:

KittyTacky

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

kutiplz [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [2]:

kutiplz, Dannflor

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

vote count 1.10

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Vivax [5]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Bell [2]:

Dannflor, fireisredsir

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Much to think about.

Probably one of the most important posts in the game.
Why am I not confirmed scum because of this?
I should think that Greeting/Vulture slot and Bell as scum would hammer me without batting an eye at that opportunity

[Vivax]

[quote="In post 1462
Rat who do you think is scum that's not in the test right now?

Updated answer: Aristeia

I kind of want to see if Radical Rat will really vote for Vulture

it kind of almost feels like RR is in the same position Bell was in on D1

This is bait, and it's coming from scum. Not for scumreading me, but for trying to goad me into specific actions under the threat of scumreading me.

What's the point of bait if you're both not up for decision? Seems like an honest angle out of pure curiosity.
Think you and Ari both villa atp.

[Vivax]

[quote="In post 1462
Rat who do you think is scum that's not in the test right now?

Updated answer: Aristeia

I kind of want to see if Radical Rat will really vote for Vulture

it kind of almost feels like RR is in the same position Bell was in on D1

This is bait, and it's coming from scum. Not for scumreading me, but for trying to goad me into specific actions under the threat of scumreading me.

What's the point of bait if you're both not up for decision? Seems like an honest angle out of pure curiosity.
Think you and Ari both villa atp.

Then who do you think is the last scum then?

well...

[Vivax]

Gonna quote a bunch of stuff I find useful for stirring thoughts. Might take a few posts so excuse the mess. Interpretation is left up to you.
Re: Dann + Fire sort of ganging up on Loki. Followed by Rodens vote on Loki and my exchange with FG. KT expressed displeasure at the Loki votes.

Spoiler:

like I find it strange Radical Rat, Vivax, and Loki all came in clearly having been reading, but had nothing to say about the large wall a few posts before, or really anything substantive about the game. im not pointing fingers at anyone specifically but regardless of fire's alignment that's weird right?

Another reason I don’t like your vote on me Fire.

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

I mean, someone made a case, or as much as you can make a case at this point of the game on another slot. Isn't that worth reading and either vocally agreeing with or disagreeing or drawing some conclusion from since it's one of the only bits of content in the game so far?

I'm not asking for theses or for everyone to be all caught up or have developed thoughts. It just strikes me as odd when people are present and commenting and posting but ignoring content *especially* at this stage of the game

Not for me it isn’t. I’m actually exhausted rn and this game just literally started, so if you’re town, your vote on me was probably just silly, since you don’t appear to be taking any of that into account but I will reread it tomorrow.

VOTE: Loki

I don't like the naked votes on Lokie Dokie.

Dann's obvtown here

Roden is mafia.

Pocketing Dannflor and Bell in quick succession.

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

With or without TMI on Loki?
Changed my mind on him, got goosed by AtE.

VOTE: Loki

Lolki seems townie to me from this:

one down four to go

I’m town and this flashwagon on me is as scummy as fuck.

Either way, great tone.

I suspect Vivax for this post, the 'either way' thing is too conscious of mafia faking tone.

VOTE: Vivax

With or without TMI on Loki?
Changed my mind on him, got goosed by AtE.

VOTE: Loki

Loki's alignment doesn't matter, I'm saying you're mafia. Why are you trying to obfuscate/confuse the issue? Why would you even care whether you're 'mafia with someone' or not if you're town? Also this turnaround has not helped you.

[Vivax]

I think that the vote placements of both Loki and Roden around these pages are sus, they're both placed at pos 3 or 4 after getting wagoned respectively, but Loki voted Roden after this progression:

Spoiler:

Loki how would you describe your scumgame? since you are a heavy meta player I'd like to understand what you think are the meta differences between your own town and scumplay

It’s more of what I don’t do as scum as opposed to what I do do. Like I do a lot more obvious townie things as town, especially as the game progresses.

The fact that I already got as many votes as I did, is a strong indicator that I’m town here fwiw because that extremely rarely ever happens to me as scum which Roden would definitely know if he knew who I was.

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

VOTE: Roden

228 indicates Loki who

should

be thinking Roden is mafia
233 indicates coin flip read
250 is voting following thread sentiment

[Vivax]

vote count 1.11

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [6]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Vulture, Vivax

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky, Roden

Bell [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Most based votecount I found

VOTE: Roden

[Vivax]

I think that the vote placements of both Loki and Roden around these pages are sus, they're both placed at pos 3 or 4 after getting wagoned respectively, but Loki voted Roden after this progression:

Spoiler:

Loki how would you describe your scumgame? since you are a heavy meta player I'd like to understand what you think are the meta differences between your own town and scumplay

It’s more of what I don’t do as scum as opposed to what I do do. Like I do a lot more obvious townie things as town, especially as the game progresses.

The fact that I already got as many votes as I did, is a strong indicator that I’m town here fwiw because that extremely rarely ever happens to me as scum which Roden would definitely know if he knew who I was.

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

VOTE: Roden

228 indicates Loki who

should

be thinking Roden is mafia
233 indicates coin flip read
250 is voting following thread sentiment

Oh you think I’m the last scum here? Well you’d be 100% wrong in that case, so if that’s the sole basis for your Roden vote, I strongly advise you to rethink it.

In that case you'd HAVE to think and promote that fire is scum

[Vivax]

vote count 1.11

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [6]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, Vulture, Vivax

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky, Roden

Bell [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Most based votecount I found

VOTE: Roden

Because either you or fire were not hammering KT
While I've had 2 flipped scum on me at minimum
And KT had one flipped on them

So either you argue both wagons were scum, or that you and fire are always a t/m combo and try to reach Rodens alignment from there

Knowing I'm town, I highly doubt Vulture wouldn't pile on me as scum there, for me it's easier to reach the conclusion that Roden is the one we lim

[Vivax]

It's a bit too late in the game for the kneejerk OMGUS to look viable
Regardless, my objective is to kill Roden and end the game

[Vivax]

But you know what, if the town votes Vulture out instead and I need to put more work in it's no biggie. I'm loving this game, the players are very motivated

[Vivax]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

This is not a townie train of thought, but rather the thought of someone who knows that the information he gives can be used to determine the correct launch

[Vivax]

4 scum on my wagon except Bell then?
It‘s possible tbh, but calling Loki mafia is kinda fun for the hard Omgus every time anyway

[Vivax]

That VC should be a Roden auto vote every time in a sane game

[Vivax]

But I sympathize with tinfoilers. The first elim is the most important for the scummers however

[Vivax]

this setup is not a normal game tho and scum are very aware about how people will be heavily analyzing the d1 vcs for associations and wagonomics considering multiple scum have to flip guaranteed

If scum get the first elim right and ML someone, they can get a whole bunch of townies (but at least 2) that are potential victims later on for being on the wrong wagon. Plus the points system disincentivizes bussing.

There‘s also the tendency to assume that 4 scummers don‘t vote together which is somewhat of a gamblers fallacy.

The only question is if you expect them to be more vs less organized but in the average game it‘s mostly everyone for himself. If they were organized they could have hammered me when I was at L-2 and L-1.

So we‘re not dealing with a highly coordinated team fmpov

[Vivax]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell

, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat,

furtiveglance

,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

I think specifically because of the mech, it’s extremely unlikely that 4/5 scum were on Vivax and only one bussed.

agree with this

I don't think it makes sense for the scum team to bus KT and have a massive bloc of votes on vivax because bus credit for bell is somewhat useless.[sorry bell]

Pardon, you are contradicting yourself clamorously

[Vivax]

vote count 1.10

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Vivax [5]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Bell [2]:

Dannflor, fireisredsir

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Wrong VC to ask about, this is the more relevant one
Then Roden put me at L-1
1-2 scum didn't hammer me

[Vivax]

so who is roden counting on to hammer you?

B-A-G are on Kitty and pushing there.

Greeting can't be scum with Roden.

Dann's flipped town, you won't hammer yourself.

Fire? I have trouble seeing a world where fire is scum because I don't think he pushes that hard for Kuti as scum.

yo-ho-ho

[Vivax]

I think I've been convinced to vote Vulture based on my points about Greeting + the gamestate arguments Ari is making

I'll do a reread of Roden ISO soon before voting but yeah I think that VC we've been riffing on is actually quite town-indicative for Roden

I don't see it.
Greeting's got the whole bad looking optic around when I voted for them for the self-bus mentioning post which was almost a copy of what RR did earlier, but if I go purely vote based with the least tinfoil possible, I still arrive at Roden.

[Vivax]

They have four posts. My only thought is “does Roden actually exist? Does anyone?”
The only people worth looking at for AI stuff are the active ones but the only actives one are the ones I don’t want to lim. So it’s a conundrum.

If the scenario is that Bell is salty at Roden not doing enough in game, corroborated by Roden's later emotional posts where he complained that no matter what he does he's seen as low level scum, then you can expect a team in disarray cooperating poorly with Bell just doing his own thing instead of hammering me.
In other words, you might be looking for efficiency where it's more opportune to look for emotionality to read the events.

[Vivax]

Mood

[Vivax]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

It's this for me. It's just fluff, designed to pocket Bell.

Spoiler:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

I read that game and I think it was mostly the PR claim rather than anything else.

...I literally hard bussed my buddy to "save" Nancy. Before that, the elim was between two townies.

In any case, I'm inclined to stick to my current reads. Nancy shouldn't be today's elim over James.

Is that .gif an explainable reaction for someone who never mentioned Bell up to that point?
Or did townRoden have a godread on Bell and just chose to not accuse them? Then casually made fun of FG for suggesting he was pocketing a mafia?