Open 862: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Bella

First.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Such a compelling case.

VOTE: Somnus

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: bbt

Apparently one of has to be mafia now

It seems that way doesn't it?

I guess you're town then

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's Enchant.

Likely a fake claim.

I don't particularly like it.

VOTE: Enchant

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's probably the most words we'll see from NM for the entire game.

Someone should check that slot ASAP.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Somnus, imagine there was an actual N5 Cop, how do you suspect that goes?

More so if that someone is not familiar with Enchant. N5 is a strange choice as scum I guess, but still, I don't particularly like it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm town reading NM for posting words.

Which probably means he is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, it would definitely be your fault Enchant.

Agreed Somnus, hence why it seems a little less likely to be scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's your second strike

VOTE: Ausuka

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why did you find it scummy?

Why don't you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's generic.

What made sense to you? You agree with the reads and reasoning given, too?

Pedit - @Ali

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For making bad posts Bella.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Early replacement.

Scum slot.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's deep, Enchant.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, you think?

Even including your own posts? Damn, I find that hard to believe.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Norwegian is town because I enjoy reading their posts.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well, a lot of your other posts like "WHAT IF THERE'S A REAL N5 COP" are strong contenders but I think that one's so vacuous and fake that yeah I would call it the worst.

Are you at all concerned with hurting my delicate feelings?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Enchant and NM are top priorities to be sorted

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No I'm mean like that

It's a goddamn shame you're scum.

We'd have got on well, for sure.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd Vig you in the face right now if I could.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

HURT: Enchant

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, Ausuka wants to know why I'm scum reading her but doesn't want to ask outright for some reason!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You definitely could have asked me yourself.

I guess you didn't want to come across as overly defensive though, especially in the early game given some people scum read defensiveness. Would explain the 'Oh this is exciting' post as well.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What question did you ask me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm talking about after I voted you. Silly.

Remember? We were speaking about how you wanted to know why I scum read you but didn't want to ask overtly so asked through Ali instead?

You know? Showing subtle signs of being aware how you may be perceived in thread and all of that good stuff.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're not lockscum, just a little sus.

Why would you say this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ausuka, I will assume from your disengagement of our conversation that you have no response and as such concede.

Can we get some votes on Ausuka now, please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Norwegian, pocketed. Good job, me.

Bella next.

PEdit - Hmm, I don't like that Ali but I'm not sure what it means yet.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

excuse me? you just voted enchant and still were at this point?

Shit. Here comes Sherlock.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Ausuka

I don't really read BBT one way or another yet. The not answering my question was irritating, but iirc he did that with all my questions last game when we were both town.

If that's right, that's actually pretty rude and I apologise.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why did you find it scummy?

I didn't initially like the first question to Gamma, although this was a minor thing.

The second post just felt wordy for the sake of it. Clearly, I couldn't possibly have a good read on NM from his few posts but I was joking around that because NM is using words (as opposed to rainbow reads-lists or some shit) that it makes me think he is town when he is probably more likely to be scum using an appealing style (humour).

Then came the buzzword read of Ali being 'genuine' and the TMI read of Enchant claim being town as if Enchant couldn't just reverse that claim at any time claiming it was an RVS joke post or whatever.

PEdit - Frog had his Weetabix this morning. Come at me bro.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The read on Ausuka has actually developed into a decent scum read due to my previous post regarding them though.

PEdit - I believe you Norwegian. We should work together. I'll be Watson.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Weetabix cultural reference - 'So much so, that the brand slogan "Have you had your Weetabix?" has become part of British popular culture, and is typically used in reference to politicians, public figures and sports people when they've achieved something great or are up against a tough challenge.'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

again this just doesnt sound real to me. its way too hyper analytical and looks like trying to make something out of nothing. which could be excused if we werent in RVS but now youre saying this a legitimate scumread and i dont believe you think that.

how is "genuine" a buzzword and what is scummy about calling someone genuine? now that i think about it you did see early TRs as scum!indicative in a previous game but i still cant lose the sense that ur just making stuff up as an excuse to push someone and look like youre hunting

Why is hyper-analytical scummy?

Why is making something out of nothing scummy in the early-game?

The scum read has developed due to legitimate reasons I have stated in thread. Did you read them?

Genuine is just that - a buzzword. A good word for scum to give as reasoning for a town read. What about Ali sounded genuine? Why does genuine = town and not genuine scum? Can scum not have genuine opinions?

So instead of explaining this when I asked you decided not to answer and then decided I'm scum for not asking you further questions after you decided to blankvote me instead of answering the first one...

Also I'm hard pressed to believe that you really thought NM's style here isn't humour

Correct, I took issue with a couple of other things too and this made you a really good early game vote. You're misrepping my reasons for thinking you're scum.

I'll state it clearly. My read has developed on you because you're showing subtle signs of being aware about how you're posting may be perceived in thread and I believe that is much more likely to come from scum than town.

I literally said NM's style was humour (which is more likely to be scum)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah you should go read my posts properly and then come back with a town read on me and a vote on Ausuka.

Thanks.

Pedit - @Frog

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, Norwegian.

NM is a... unique player.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

yes and this read is complete nonsense, I have explained why, and you have refused to engage in any meaningful way, probably because you're scum

Oh, you have? Can you point me towards your explanation please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

yeah I still hard agree with ausuka. I see your reasons BBT but you don't present them in a way that makes me think you believe in it. it looks like youre throwing darts for a reaction but there's no "aha!" moment you just double down and keep pushing based on nonsense. it is by definition fake solving and more people should vote BBT

What would that look like? How would you expect me to present the info in a way that makes you think I believe in it. That sounds like a nonsense sentence.

I have to ask pal Why vote BBT here? Looks like OMGUS to me

NM doing stuff. This is good.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ausuka - I claimed two strikes on you initially; both have been explained. This was enough for me to vote you and see where it goes. The two strikes are not the main cause of my scum read but you seem fixated on them instead of responding to the stuff that developed from there.

Since then, you have shown a subtle awareness of how you could possibly be perceived in thread and I believe this trait is usually found in scum. You have not refuted this whatsoever or even denied that you are being self-aware or cautious about how you may be perceived. You wanted to know why I was scum reading you - so just ask? Instead, you take the more indirect approach of trying to get the answer through Ali, that's scummy. Regardless of whether I answered a potential rhetorical question or not, you still clearly wanted the answer but didn't ask directly.

There was also the 'This is exciting' caption with the vote on me, trying to change the tone of how the post would have been perceived had you just naked voted me.

PEdit - Holy shit. NM, why are you town reading Ausuka? (I'm actually expecting a serious answer here, please don't disappoint)

Frog, I asked you how you expect that post to look from a town!BBT perspective to further understand why you scum read me.

Bella's being hedgy with her reads. Me no likey. I do like the vote on Ali, though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

okay i get that. but that's not an easy question for me to answer. i guess i would expect you to ask more questions in your push rather than making rash assumptions. i think the former is more townie because townies dont actually know whether the person they are pushing is town or scum. the latter being an easy way for scum to tunnel people, like you're doing right now. if it wasnt d1 and there were flips to go off i could get it but it is d1 and there are no flips and so i dont believe you actually came to the conclusions you came to.

Do you not think that aggressively pushing does the exact same thing as questioning but in a much better way? Like, they have to respond anyway and conviction (real or not) makes people do funny things.

You disagree with my reasoning? You don't think Ausuka is showing self-awareness in a not-so-obvious-scummy-way?

@bbt I don't think I am? Most of the noise is coming from the you v ausaka thing and I'm not great at reading 1v1s: I have soul read ausake quite quickly in our last two games when both town, so I'm kinda waiting on that. You, I never want to sort day one.

More noise from enchant and nm - enchant is hard to meta,they don't feel like they did in cultists here tho. Nm I can usually read but this schtick is new.

I think sonmus is town and I'm protective of frogs, having just read then wrong in y'all's game with klick.

I think Ali I'd scum for two different reasons, one weak one better.

I don't know, I read your post and was like 'I don't know what Bella thinks.' You had no conclusion on Ausuka or myself, you could see Frog believing his push but don't necessarily agree with it...what does that mean? Is he town?

Aside from the vote on Ali, it was a wishy-washy post. I also feel like I'm hyper aware of you now given you have duped me on at least one occasion.

@frogs, me Ans bbt used to play together really well, but because they hate meta (or something ) they do scumny shit as town and vice versa. Their tone also is aggressive no matter what and they aren't scares to produce content. However, since bbt and me have been back we've never been town together (maybe this time, I'll be lucky...etc )

This is mildly offensive. I don't do scummy shit as town, for some reason that I am yet to understand, I get town read as scum and scum read as town. I can't really help it or seem to change it.

Bella, would it be fair to say that you try to pocket me as scum?

Pedit - Damn, Bella with the burn. Let me go get some ice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm afraid so, that's usually how it goes.

I can assure you though, Sherlock, I would not lie to you. I, your dear friend Watson, am town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh, you think?

Even including your own posts? Damn, I find that hard to believe.

Well, a lot of your other posts like "WHAT IF THERE'S A REAL N5 COP" are strong contenders but I think that one's so vacuous and fake that yeah I would call it the worst.

Please my fellow townmates Let's not fight like this

???

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@bbt, fair, I need to stop relying so hard on inference: I think I'm being obvious and then get surprised when people don't get it. I wasn't trying to be offensive though - I do think you do things that people see as being 'from scum ' as town and vice versa, and I have always assumed it's a little bit on purpose, because of your sig. I also said I think a lot of it is aggression, though - or forcefulness/purpose - you do want to get shit done as either alignment.

Re pocketing, I am going to be non commital and say sort of: in cultists I was mainly handling you with kid gloves, because rolling first scum in ages with you town was scary. I think in other games it might be easy for scum!Bella to pocket bbt for the same reason it's intially easy for scum!bbt to pocket Bella - we do tend to have similar thoughts at times, and I'm certainly trying to learn to make my scum game feel more like my town game by giving my actual thoughts - I got snowed recently by scum! lukewarm saying stuff that couksbe been from my brain but he was scum!

This doesn't really answer my problem in regards to you providing words that don't say anything? Both reads on Ausuka and myself produce nothing and same for Frog (unless the implication is that he is town?)

OK, I have noticed it a couple of times and wanted to get your opinion. Surprised you have gone non-commital tbh

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Frog, I'm town. Silly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because you're scum reading, and voting, for me.

Silly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@bbt, i know? You and ausaka were the main event , but I don't have much response to it. If anything, you and auska both now seeming to lightly sr aliana but not talk about this shared read makes me think it's just a breakdown of communication.

I think frogs can be town enough for day one: I'm basically not here for elim-ing nm, enchant or them today as they've been seen as lhf.

We can only talk about a sample size of one here without breaking the rules, so I can only talk about cultists, where I was definitely after your town read. I will say this, though: I don't fake feelings as either alignment.

I feel like you changed the goal posts on me - you wanted commital reads, I've given you tons! More than you've given.

I love that last line, sassy.

I think you're right that we both lean scum on Ali, that will probably be where I go next as I feel I have got all I can out of the Ausuka exchange and I think they might be town? There were definitely undertones of self-awareness in their posting though so I'm gonna hold off actually town reading the slot.

Agree that Frog is of no interest today. NM or Enchant I don't have much on atm, but lhf or not, if they're scummy they can go.

I did want commital reads and I guess you have given me some. Can you expand on the not faking feelings part?

VOTE: Alianna

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, I'm actually enjoying NM's posting and I much prefer him playing like this to the way he usually does. For that alone, he can live until at least D2. Just for making an effort.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How about voting Alianna?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, you do you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey there, Norwegian.

I am going to need your vote on the Alianna wagon my friend. How about it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Somnus, any thoughts on Alianna?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It makes him look like he's generating content even though I don't think his approach shows much genuine sorting.

BBT why did you stop pushing me? Nothing you said before that point showed much doubt in your read

Regardless of my alignment, it's false to say that my push on you 'looks like I am generating content'. My push on you

did

generate content.

I stopped pushing you because I believe I got everything out of the exchange that I could. My read had softened somewhat (even moreso with your recent questioning to Somnus and Bella) and I'm interested in looking at Alianna now because I have issues with some of her posting as well. If I had to label the read, I'd say null leaning on the scummy side.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've said all I'm going to say on it. If you want to continue, go ahead. I'm done with the conversation.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Andante, where's Nancy?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Just wondering why she hasn't engaged with the game yet.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Never mind, I think it was Nancy posting earlier in the game

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would like Alianna to come back and respond in thread before proceeding to yeet her.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There are no vigs

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Only fair she gets a chance to respond to the wagon, no?

I would think a stranger process is just to yeet her while she isn't here

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Everything Alianna.

Read the thread and respond accordingly.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LMAOOOOO THAT POP IN.... IM SOLD. ALI SCUM!!!

-Andante

Yeah I have to agree, I really didn't like that either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Andante, please relax.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Reads list from Ali would be great

Responding to that Enchant post of all things is kind of meh

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You figured out you were the leading wagon Ali?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Alianna

That's E-1 I believe.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh shit.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Only be sorry if you're town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alianna, if you're town, how about some reads real quick?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lol. Goldfish didn't even get to post in the first Day of the game.

That's funny.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Somnus and Gamma would be great cop checks.

Protect myself or Fun times if Docs.

Thanks.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Somnus

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If I die get this guy d2

[BlueBloodedToffee]

UNVOTE:

I thought it was a separate post entirely but 333 is a Somnus post so fair enough.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Apologies for not checking in with this game properly yet, will do so tomorrow.

Slowly rereading through D1 and then I'll catch up with the newer stuff.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Catching up on early D2 stuff, so bare with me please.

VOTE: norwegian

his reaction to the Alianna flip is over-the-top

Self-voting as town. Even more heinous crime.

this is what pinged me the hardest

Don't think I agree with any of this and I'm left wondering why the same logic wasn't applied to Fun Times who wrote a paragraph referencing the Ali flip.

Don’t have much time to post rn but that self hammer fkin sucked and I want to lim the hydra for putting such overwhelming pressure on Alianna. It was ludicrous

I get the sentiment behind this and it was my initial thought at start of D2 but Frog just doesn't read as town to me in this game at all so far.

because i don't know who i want to vote for rn...unlike the two of you who have expressed someone you do want to vote for...

I guess this is a problem when you bait a lolhammer when you have no reads, right?

VOTE: norwee

@bbt, I thought you didn't put a huge amount of stock into nka?

Bad vote Bella, I don't know if you expand on this vote at all but if not I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. I actually used to rate NKA as a decent scum hunting tool and I still think it's vastly under rated.

they're almost certainly town despite the townflip imo

the confidence in the scumflip?

Gamma, you posted this in reference to Fun Times being town from the Ali flip. I'm not sure I agree, why couldn't they be scum super excited that a townie was acting so scummy they had secured an easy D1 mislim?

tbf I think 2-3 scum were of the Alianna wagon

If you haven't expanded more on this, can you?

Not gonna lie, I didn't realize we were ending the day like 36 hours into it, we definitely should not have ended it before Goldfish spoke. my bad! I mean, end of the day, no regrets? I legit SRed them, they self hammered, and then I was solving, and they flipped town, and I went "are you serious right now??" what TOWN self hammers there?? like dude.. oh well moving on, my next confident read is Not_Mafia being maf here, but like, we're not gonna speed through D2, woooooo I mean, I'm always down for speedgame... but I don't think anyone else would appreciate it lol

-Andante

This feels scummy. Gamma, you were looking for an 'over-the-top' reaction to the Ali flip...here it is.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Bad reason to SR me and bad reason to TR Fun Times.
I found my next vote.

Yep, I like this.

What's the question here? I was like one of the only people who actually gave a reason for that vote. Froggo voted too, so I find it interesting froggo is coming at us, like, I wrote yall a paragraph of my full thoughts on that situation, no one had questions at the time, yall just ran with it.

-Andante

Yeah, there is a difference. You were angling for that Ali wagon for a while without committing yourself to it, encouraging Penguin to put them at E-1 with both Enchant and NM around, when you were not voting Ali yourself.

369 and 378 pushing for the E-1 (as a side note; the pushing Penguin to vote, and then scum reading him and voting him for E-1-ing and then the unvote after the self-vote was really weird, not sure what it means yet but something was happening there) only after this pushing for the E-1 vote do you actually vote yourself in 427. The vote itself was poor as well because you used mech talk as reasoning when Ali was responding to Frog who actually started the discussion around mech talk.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My top 2 SRs right now, are Not_Mafia from day 1, and froggo basically just claimed wolf here on D2 (explained above)

-Andante

Why no vote?

I'm honestly probably embellishing my confidence a bit but I still think the most confident pushes on Alianna were probably all town-motivated and that includes Andante

Alright.
Anyway your arguments on me are very tunneling in nature so i don’t think there will be anything to gain from being on you at this moment.

VOTE: N_M
Their posts today are really lacking self-awareness. I doubt they don’t know that Alianna flipped town.

Has your read on Gamma changed?

I do wanna know why BBT thought me/Somnus were good cop checks btw

I thought you were a good check because I didn't like some of your D1 play - your vote on Ali despite appearing to scum read me felt bad 309 and your reasoning for town reading both Somnus and Penguin were equally bad 410 and 435

Somnus was for his hedgy read on Ali and his overall lack of engagement with the game. Somnus was more predicated on an Ali scum flip, too.

[v[froggodoggo[/v]

I think we should settle Andante vs. Froggo, we can't have this division in our town

Yeah, I don't mind either of these votes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

yea ok - fun times is town.

moving on.

How so?

It's more the odds that you ended up a Night 1 cop and investigated me when I was largely town-read except by Asuka,

who was only scum-reading me because they prematurely decided Alianna was absolutely going to flip red

and that I somehow must have been Alianna's scum-partner who was terrified to vote her off less than 24 hours into the game. A ridiculous conclusion on their part, but it happened.

This isn't entirely true, Ausuka's scum read on you started earlier in the game, before the Ali push.

andante's pressure on alianna was scum-aligned no matter what their alignment, there was literally nothing they could do to please you. that is not scumhunting and it is not solving, it is pushing for a d1 elimination on someone who if you are town should have no real confidence that they will actually flip scum. nothing abt andante's play aligns with a town!pov.

Alianna was acting pretty scummy to be fair, but you're right in terms of Fun Times giving her no wiggle room at all.

penguin power is solvey. it looks legit to me.

Please quote posts from Penguin showing he is solving.

Gonna come back to this after a bit more sleep, I just caught up and am now scum reading everyone apart from sonmus (old news) and gamma (new news).

Talk about Gamma not being scum please Bella?

I noticed you said you will expand on these reads so I'll look for that as I continue catching up.

VOTE: froggodoggo

Why?

Feels like an opportunistic and grimy vote choice

Can you explain how Enchant's vote was opportunistic?

i disagree with this, we have lots of time and I think making sure UTRs are actually town is good, but anyways the walkthrough of ur thought process helped a lot and I apologize for what I said earlier. i am kind of just SRing the playstyle and having the play by play helps to establish for me how it can be helpful and come from town.

will most likely change my vote i like the effort a lot. will wait til I get on laptop and can look at more ppl

FMPOV, I don't feel like Fun Times actually answered your main gripe with how they pushed Alianna and didn't allow her any room to breathe. You looking to move on is questionable, scum theatre?

UNVOTE: Fun times

VOTE: Enchant

Yeah, you're gonna have to walk me through this one.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tbf it's really surprised me they were a check, they were my strongest tr day one.

Bella you have spoken about Somnus being your strongest TR and I think you alluded to it earlier in the game, too. Can you just quote some posts that show Somnus solving please?

Same for us.

Again, Somnus town reads from early game really need to be explained.

Like....I can understand copping a person you were unsure on/wouldn't be able to read but that would be enchant/not mad/even penguin power for me, just because of playstyle.

You disagree with Goldfish's reasoning for checking Somnus? I think he gave 4 reasons and you have disagreed with one?

C: I still sus Not_Mafia slot and they haven't improved whatsoever so what would change if i voted you? I still find you both scummy so changing my vote from A to B wouldn't change too much.

Did you not do this when you changed your vote from Gamma to NM?

Has your read on Gamma changed?

I felt like our 1v1 was making the game intolerable so i backed off to give it more thought.

And that is different to your 1v1 with Enchant how?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are you saying Penguin, Gamma and Bella are all town?

Are you also saying that meta is infallible and should supersede anything that happens in this game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

With relation to Frog, your argument is invalid as Frog was not posting in game at the time of Ali being close to being elimmed.

So, yeah, he voted for Ali. But he voted when it was completely safe to do so and Ali was in no real danger of being elimmed. His gripe was with the way you backed Ali into a corner and every option she had was painted as being scummy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, I noticed that you didn't expand on 'everyone being scum' outside of Gamma and Somnus?

Would you mind running me through that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, you town read Somnus before 330 so can you go back a little further please?

What do you like about how they approached Enchant? Can you quote post it?

What response regarding low hanging fruit? Again, can you quote it please?

Pedit - What do you think about Norwegian's 484 ?

Pedit again - I don't particularly like that answer Bella. I feel like you're hedging your reads this game and scum reading Norwegian is a very safe take for you to have right now.

@Fun Times - It's not a silly question to ask because you use meta as a defence for everything. So it's like 'forget what you think because x, y and z think we're town because meta so you should too!' which I don't really buy.

Pedit again - How is it hypocritical?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, and I don't give a fuck how many times you use meta to defend yourself because it holds extremely little value.

You're conflating two issues. It is not hypocritical for me to accuse your slot of giving Alianna no way out because I did not do that.

I did not call Ali scum for not posting and then call her scum for posting. That was you. Therefore, it is not hypocritical for me, or Frog, to call you out on this.

I'm certainly not blaming your slot for the Ali elim. I have openly stated that she was extremely scummy towards the EoD1, however, your slot backed her into a corner where she had no way out no matter what answer she gave. That's scummy.

I have no idea what you're referring to with the one vote thing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm being obtuse? That's fucking rich. Are you not reading my posts?

I'll state it again, just to be clear.

YOUR SLOT GAVE ALIANNA NO WAY OUT. That is scummy.

I AM NOT BLAMING THE ENTIRE ELIM ON YOU. I AM SAYING THAT YOUR PUSH/VOTE WAS BAD AND IT LOOKS SCUMMY.

You have not, and continue not to, refute my point regarding your slot giving Alianna no way out because you know it is true and this is the main cause for my read.

Instead, you chose to try and conflate two issues so that you could call my hypocritical when in fact I am not being hypocritical whatsoever. Now you've resorted to calling me obtuse because, again, you simply have no answer to my reasoning for why I scum read you.

VOTE: Fun Times

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I feel like that is Town!Norwegian trying to claim early credit for a scum!Ali flip.

Given Ali flipped town, then 484 seems unlikely to come from scum.

Will get to your longer post when I can

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You feel those posts can't come from scum!Somnus Bella? They're pretty basic...

I think it was Fun Times (?) who spoke about scum liking to talk about Mech. Do you think Somnus' posts fall into that category and do you agree with that assertion from Fun Times?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I wasn't really speaking to you regarding the Ali wagon, I was more interested in your town read of Somnus. You claimed a town read on him in 330 and I was asking you to show me where this read formed. Those 3 posts you quoted could easily come from either alignment a sit involved a lot of mech spec so I'm still unsure how you formed that town read unless there are other posts before 330?

I don't understand the reference to town!Norwegian finding a scum slip? Or the reference to Fun Times either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gamma, I'm not saying he

should

have been given credit.

I'm saying he is trying to claim credit which would imply he didn't know that Ali would flip green.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gamma, can you at least try to explain those town reads please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I disagree about Frog's push, I think he had some relevant points.

As for Enchant, that all seems pretty reasonable. Do you think FT was the 'easiest' vote Enchant could make? I would argue voting Frog would have been more opportunistic, would you agree?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're right.

I meant more in terms of not posting and then posting. Alianna was given a chance to explain reads or look at her wagon composition from numerous people, including Fun Times.

Pedit - Haha

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see you still can't refute my reasoning.

Stop acting like it doesn't exist.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nice misrep.

I'll keep my vote on you, thanks though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Andante didn't answer it. Andante gave a narrative of what happened in thread - I know what happened in thread because I read it.

Andante did not address the main concern of giving Ali no wiggle room in terms of scum if she doesn't post and scum if she does.

If they did address this, please explicitly quote that explantion for me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Gamma, what do you think about Penguin?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've already addressed the hypocrite comment and how that absolutely doesn't apply but you're clearly too dense to see that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

lol - fun times is obvtown...that's a horrible push.

Why is there an Enchant wagon currently?

Do you disagree with my reasoning or is it a bad push because meta?

Do you have any reads yet?

Pedit - I was asking you to explain your town read on Somnus before 330 Bella, if those three posts you quoted amount to the town read then I have to question whether that town read is genuine or not because I don't believe that's enough.

You can push one read while having hedgy reads - they're not mutually exclusive - which is exactly what you did.

The Norwegian post amounts to this. He was responding to Fun Times to try and claim credit for an Ali scum flip, this would imply that he didn't expect Ali to flip green and therefore probably isn't scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Like, you specifically point this rather meh post out, I say 'wut' , you can talk about town!norwee, I respond, saying that isn't what happened, or if it is more applicable for fun times, Ans you say you are confused why I'm talking about it.

I think we're hugely misunderstanding what the other person is saying. This is happening a lot

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My issue is that your town read on Somnus doesn't feel genuine - it feels TMI. Those posts you quoted shouldn't equal a town read because they could very easily come from scum!Somnus.

I need to get on the PC but there are at least two posts where you talk about your reads and there are lots of words that don't lead to an actual read.

I think that post is unlikely to come from scum!Norwegian yes because he is trying to take the credit for a scum!Ali flip and if he was scum he would know Ali is flipping town and therefore wouldn't make the post. Once again, I am not giving him credit, he is trying to claim credit by himself for a scum!Ali flip.

Why are my pushes weird? Because they don't follow thread consensus? Why is Fun Times town? Again, the posts you quoted for Somnus should not equal the town read you gave in 330 because they're easily made from scum!Somnus.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Norwegian, Enchant and possibly NM are probably town and I think you should look elsewhere.

I also have a couple of questions outstanding if you wouldn't mind ISO'ing me and answering them.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Norwegian, please disengage with Enchant and give me some general thoughts about the current gamestate please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not focused on dead town.

I'm focused on alive scum providing bad reasoning to elim previously alive town that are now dead.

Nancy couldn't address my concerns, I was hoping that you might be able to?

That said, I like the Goldfish stuff.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't feel strongly enough about Norwegian to outright say I town read them but I think I have seen enough to not want to elim there Today.

Fun Times were very different. People are town reading them for the enthusiasm with which Andante pushed Ali believing they had found scum. I am saying that the enthusiasm could equally be applied to scum believing they have found an easy mislim for D1 and pushing hard to secure it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I'm gonna need you to because this tunnel on Enchant isn't doing anything for me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, you can ignore Enchant for now.

Focus on the rest of the game please.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK Bella, I don't see what you're seeing so I guess I'll just put a pin in it for now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I feel like it's quite difficult to explain because of the way they both play.

There have been votes from Enchant that I like at certain points in the game and I take that to mean they're viewing the gamestate the way that I am.

I also have a feeling that scum!Enchant doesn't make so much noise in relation to this Norwegian push and the whole Enchant vs Norwegian thing stinks of town vs town. The slight pause I have is that a lot of people don't seem to have taken a side in the debate? Or maybe they have but just not in the form of voting? I don't know

NM is the same - he has actually made some astute posts and I like a lot of the reads/thoughts he has displayed in thread.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I do have some reservations about NM and I'm not sure what to do about it.

I really like his 649 though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Waiting to see more from them, I didn't particularly like Frog outside of their FT push though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What are your reads atm, Norwegian?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not my fault you can't, or won't, read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nancy, if you're not going to read then I'm not engaging.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm being obtuse? That's fucking rich. Are you not reading my posts?

I'll state it again, just to be clear.

YOUR SLOT GAVE ALIANNA NO WAY OUT. That is scummy.

I AM NOT BLAMING THE ENTIRE ELIM ON YOU. I AM SAYING THAT YOUR PUSH/VOTE WAS BAD AND IT LOOKS SCUMMY.

You have not, and continue not to, refute my point regarding your slot giving Alianna no way out because you know it is true and this is the main cause for my read.

Instead, you chose to try and conflate two issues so that you could call my hypocritical when in fact I am not being hypocritical whatsoever. Now you've resorted to calling me obtuse because, again, you simply have no answer to my reasoning for why I scum read you.

VOTE: Fun Times

Just in case you do want to try reading at some point.

I'll quote it again for you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My post literally answers your post.

You're so scummy it's unbelievable.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You read your own slot first?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, let's play you're not reading my posts because you're scummy as fuck shall we?

My post LITERALLY answers your supposed problems with me and you refuse to acknowledge it.

You can be elimmed now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My biggest concern is that you cornered Alianna into a scum read.

You called her frozen scum for not posting when the pressure built on her. Then, when she came into thread, you called her scum for coming into thread and posting.

So, she was scum for not posting and then scum for posting; you see how she had no way out?

Second to this, Nancy is now calling me a hypocrite for this view. I did not say Alianna was scum for not posting, though I did agree that her entry post wasn't great.

Do you see the difference between how I pushed Alianna and you did? Because Nancy can't.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why did you choose to read your own slot first?

Is the Amish tell still a thing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

lol - fun times is obvtown...that's a horrible push.

Why is there an Enchant wagon currently?

Do you disagree with my reasoning or is it a bad push because meta?

Do you have any reads yet?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you explain that town read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Go for it

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You were right.

I am now confused.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

you're really not picking up what i'm putting down but that's okay.

def not the right person on day 1

What was this Penguin?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Jake

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am voting you because you have provided no thoughts on the current game state and have provided very little in terms of reads.

You also seem more interested in writing silly posts as opposed to actually solving the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, I'm really worried you're scum...make me feel better?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I wish I knew how. I'm not communicating well with anyone this game it seems.

Scum me doesn't start the wagon on aliana and then go through her iso like that day one. Why draw attention to myself?

I feel the communication thing, I'm the same. Feel like no-one is understanding what I'm trying to say.

Yeah, maybe. You were one of the first to push Alianna but you knew support was likely there for that from myself/Ausuka. I don't know.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I feel like all scum must be in Jake/Goldfish/Gamma/Enchant
Penguin has had some decent posts in this game actually.
N_M keeping up the gimmick for so long makes me think it is genuine.
BBT/Fun times not an concern.
Somnus town.
Bellaphant has felt townie this game.

Huh, guess i got some reads out after all. Just took some musing.

Gamma and Enchant are probably town.

Thanks for the reads though. Talk about the Fun Times and Bella town reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you mean it was nothing?

What did you want them to pick up?

What did you mean in 420?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am voting you because you have provided no thoughts on the current game state and have provided very little in terms of reads.

You also seem more interested in writing silly posts as opposed to actually solving the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LOL.

Jake is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not sure either.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's clear you're lacking motivation because there is big pressure on you and you don't want to waste time faking a catch up as scum only to be elimmed anyway.

It's OK. I understand.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Jake, would love some expansion on those Penguin and Bella reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Just, you know, some general thoughts on them and their placement in your list.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you find that scummy?

For clarity, do you think scum try not to make waves and draw too much attention?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella was first to vote Ali after noting scum reads from myself and Ausuka.

What do you think about that?

What do you think about Penguin's lack of scum reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think both myself and Ausuka showed some light suspicion of Ali before Bella's vote. I'd have to go back and check to see if I'm misremembering though and I really don't want to that while I'm phone posting.

What I'm saying is that scum!Bella possibly saw the potential for an Alianna wagon to take off and made the first move to secure their position on the wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow that misrep…it taste good?

Colour me surprised if you have stated scum reads anywhere in thread.

Notice it's plural.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I see.

So you have no null reads? I wouldn't want to misrep you...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, just a little explaining would be great.

Talk about your top two scum reads and reasons for them?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You see?

That shit is scummy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You make reference to everything being in thread but when asked to explain you're just going to clam up?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, nobody is asking you to change the tone of your posts.

Just expand on them a little

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Bella

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why can't Norwegian/Enchant be town v town Bella?

I disagree, I think it's a fine place for my vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Enchant, why is Goldfish a bad elim?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Imagine a world where NM and Enchant are scum.

That would be wild.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you think if Goldfish is telling the truth that losing Somnus is a massive loss for town right now?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think he could be town, yeah. But he isn't providing much to the gamestate right now, is he?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about elimming Somnus.

I meant that if we elim Goldfish and it turns out he is town, then scum are forced (?) to kill Somnus as he is confirmed. Given Somnus isn't providing a whole lot right now, it doesn't seem the biggest loss in the world.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not even saying I want to elim Goldfish either to be fair, just thinking out loud.

At the very least we wait for Goldfish to be replaced and so in the mean time I would like to elim Bella.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can see why you would disagree with that.

But I'm just not getting town feels from you so I'm sorry <3 I've been burned by this before and I can't let it happen again

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not sure a N2 doctor is that high in probability?

Pedit - Read my previous posts Enchant for clarification on why I was asking what I was asking.

I'm not interested in elimming Somnus, or even Goldfish, but if Somnus is town I feel he could be doing much more.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Enchant, who are your current scum reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Give me more

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So you have no scum reads?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, I actually relate to that. I am finding this game incredibly difficult to find scum reads in.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who is mostly absent Bella?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@bbt, I'd bet money on there being at least one scum in enchant/goldfish/somnus, and I town read sonmus! Pp feels missing too.

I certainly wouldn't bet against this.

I don't think you can class Enchant as 'missing' though?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hey Jake, why Enchant and why not BB or the hydra?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Enchant isn't flailing at all.

BB is Best Bird (formerly Penguin Power)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm flattered you think I'm obsessed with you.

Thanks for proving my point about you being no loss to town though, I guess.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This baggage you're carrying from our last game isn't doing you any good. There's a reason half the playerlist doesn't bother to engage with you. You approach every conversation like a screaming toddler. This is about the extent of time I care to waste on you today. Enjoy your day.

Whatever you got going on in your life right now, I hope it gets better for you.

Until then, you probably shouldn't be playing Mafia.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't see anything wrong with my post? He clearly has stuff going on and I genuinely hope it gets better for him.

He attempted to make our interaction personal, do you disagree?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, so he made it personal.

What you coming at me for?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right and he shouldn't be making it personal at all.

Regardless of whether I had a grudge or not, I don't (and if I did why would I wait 56 pages before pushing it?) he shouldn't be making it personal.

Do my posts towards Somnus at the start of the game look like I hold a grudge? What's happened is Somnus' ego has got hurt and he has decided to make a personal attack.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

NM is actually doing something. I really don’t see the comparison?

I genuinely wish NM would play every game like this.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't say he was a liability, I said he wasn't doing a lot to help town and therefore wouldn't be a big loss. Do you disagree?

Everybody makes those sort of posts all of the time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think I can argue with empty.

Again, I probably agree with you regarding Norwegian/Enchant. I think I'm town reading Enchant just for seeming engaged and that's probably bad?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I might also be town reading them for not lol hammering Ali.

Pfft, maybe I shouldn't be town reading them at all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I get it, I think I'm doing it with nm. I hate this new nm, it uses to be one of my few skills: I've never read town nm as scum.

Also, happy birthday. Does this make you a Leo?

I think NM is actually making decent contributions. But I also feel like he is throwing shade pretty much anywhere without actually making pushes.

Thanks! Yeah I'm a Leo.

Pedit - Thanks Sherlock

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Contributions yeah, but I can't think right now what their reads are.

Also, I should've guessed.

Yeah exactly, I had the same with Enchant which is why I asked what their reads where. Do you think scum!Enchant is more likely to BS reads as opposed to saying 'I have no scum reads'

I don't know what that means that you should've guessed. Do I want to haha?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I feel like I had more of a handle on enchants reads in deputies. I don't know what he would or wouldn't do, I find him too unpredictable.

My long term ex and my ex bff were Leos.

@nm, some reads please?

You were scum though so reads would have been influenced by what you knew anyway.

Oh no, that doesn't bode well for me does it haha!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@nm, some reads please?

Would you mind, NM?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Enchant

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why would you need to switch?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, it seems strange you would consider switching at this stage I guess, but you do you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's strange because you have been scum reading Enchant since the Stone Age and now want to reevaluate at what could be a critical point of the Day.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Likelihood of both Enchant and Jake being town?

High.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'd say quite low And Jake's lecturing is a lot easier to fake as scum than Enchant's frustration is

Disagree that both can't be town but agree that Jake seems more likely to be scum.

If Frog's attack on the hydra at start of D2 was from scum, I'm impressed.

VOTE: Jake

E-1 I think?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Huh, I wonder who they think might be bussing Enchant here.

Auro’s suspicious of Bella.

Me too!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I haven't been active for the past day or so.

What questions need answering?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think if there is scum between Enchant and Jake then Jake is more likely.

I'd rather not elim any but that doesn't seem to be an option. So, shrug.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You <3

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've explained I think you're being hedgy with reads.

I don't feel like you're trying to solve either.

What do you feel about Enchant and Jake?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You keep saying this and I keep posting reads while you don't. It's boring and annoying. I think my progression on reads is fairly transparent too - I moved from scum reading norwee to thinking they are most likely town, my tr of the hydra is slipping, etc: I'm not hiding things

We solve differently, I'm never as aggressive as you as town or scum.

I've talked about enchant and Jake a lot. Enchant hasn't really tried to engage in my scum read of them, although they have done to slots like gamma, which also strikes me as weird. It would be easy to say the dueling wagons mean one is deffo town and one is deffo scum, and from that 50/50 I'd pick enchant any day -i don't see what the hydra sees about their meta (enchant has had scum games where they are absent, but not all of them, and does this feel like deptuy cultists enchant to you??).

Do you have other scum reads? Your scum read of me feels weirdly 'safe', especially because you aren't basing it on much.

It's not about aggression but more about lots of words that don't say anything, you know?

What does weird mean? Does it tell you anything that Enchant has engaged with Gamma and not you? I agree, it is easy to say one of them must be scum but I don't know, it doesn't feel that way to me. Frog's push on hydra at start of D2 is my main reason for town reading that slot, I don't think Jake has done all that much since replacing in. Enchant is hard to read for me, but their engagement levels and push back on their wagon feels town.

Deputy Cultists was completely different because Enchant was conf town so I don't think that game applies to this game at all?

I'm struggling for scum reads in this game, I've said this before. When I'm struggling, I look at people who are kind of in the middle of the game, not making too much noise or too many hot takes. You fit that description, as does Penguin. Outside of that, I really don't know.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I did.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I await a proper response to my post, Bella.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you suppose I do, Kop?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you suppose I do, Kop?

Explain your progression. Why did you go from both being highly likely to be town, to Jake being the likeliest scum out of them two?

They can both be highly likely to be town AND have one slot more likely to be scum than the other.

It's not a mutually exclusive thing. For arguments sake, let's say I think there is a 90% chance that both flip town. I can think this but also think that there is a 1% chance Enchant flips scum and a 5% chance that Jake flips scum and therefore Jake is more likely to flip scum than Enchant.

Does that make sense?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

For what Enchant?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

As of right now, we have 13 hours.

If a wagon sprung up and garnered enough votes in that short space of time I would probably be suspicious about it and get cold feet anyway so I'm not sure it's a great idea regardless.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're right, I didn't realise we still had so much time back when I was voting you.

My reads wavered a bit on both slots though so I didn't feel as strongly then as I do now regarding Jake and yourself if that makes sense?

I also don't feel I have enough to push Bella or Penguin so it just feels like my hands are tied and we're in a pretty shitty position.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Norwegian, did you spend time figuring out if you were right about Enchant or not?

If so, can you concisely explain your scum read on them please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you give me some examples, and explain how it's scummy? It's just how I talk and I don't think this should be news to you. In terms of solving, noticing things like enchants push back to gamma but not other people is the start of a solving process - I don't have an answer, but you have to notice things that feel out of place

(@mistress, that's why I'm reacting to the scum read on me for the misread vote count - I think before I'd just town binned your slot for tone, and it's important not to miss things that 'hitch' that read - it does show a lack of detailed reading of the thread. It also mainly worries me because I'm still not sure why Auro scum reads me, and it does seem your read of me has changed since I questioned the scum read: certainly your approach has, but that might just be the replacement)

Back to @bbt - Enchant has said they think gamma is scum for not knowing their meta, but I don't think their meta massively supports them being town. You've said that about deputy cultists before and I'm not sure I follow, can you walk me through it?.

I agree about penguin,.I forgot they are in the game, but I also struggle to.remember anything nm has said.

Examples will have to wait until I'm on PC unfortunately. I understand that you're not as black and white as most people when it comes to reads but you're definitely capable of making reads and expanding on them as town.

Noticing things is not solving. If you notice things and then give some thoughts on whether it's town or scum and say why, then sure, that's solving. But just pointing things out isn't solving. It's a more subtle approach, but similar to, throwing out a bunch of accusations and seeing what sticks. The way you do it draws a lot less attention, too.

You know I don't use meta, but I'd argue that Enchant engaging when being pushed is town indicative in and of itself? Deputy Cultists is different for a whole host of reasons, namely; Enchant was conf town and literally had to do nothing to prove their alignment, they had 0 interest in the set-up and game itself and only played because Mod asked (if I remember right) and they also couldn't be killed. So, all in all, motivation to play was low.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It doesn't help much Nancy, is it based on meta or is it game relevant?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It doesn't help much Nancy, is it based on meta or is it game relevant?

Both, because it sounds like town!Penguin in most games I’ve played with him and I also don’t so far see any reason to scumread him. That’s why it’s a townlean.

OK, so specifically for this game you have Penguin as null at best it looks like?

Has he done anything this game to make you think he is town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lol.

This fucking game.

As if you hold that claim so long.