Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[hutmeil]

VOTE: Furtive

[hutmeil]

UNVOTE: Furtive

I had the same question as him for Frog which I TR him for.

[hutmeil]

Serious vote?

RVS Vote. I already unvoted.

[hutmeil]

UNVOTE: Furtive

I had the same question as him for Frog which I TR him for.

Did I ask Frogsterking a question that you wanted to ask him, or did you want to ask me a question?

Yes you asked him something I wanted to ask him, it was something along the lines of why he was he voting for someone he's TRing (Gandhi). Anyway, things got cleared up as the game progressed.

[hutmeil]

@Delta

@hutmeil

@BBT

What do you make of 237?

Interesting that he started his RVS on page 8. It could be he's just getting started.

I'll give the slot the benefit of the doubt but I guess the slot earns some scum points for me.

[hutmeil]

inutile, hutmeil, Mohab500, hopefully you three can vote soon, even if you vote me I think it would be helpful to see where you want to push!

Will do so later on my laptop. Will reread there and then vote.

[hutmeil]

Initially I gave Juice the benefit of the doubt (late RVS??). Then the slot voted Delta which I town lean, then town reads Ausuka for no given reason.

VOTE: Juice

As for the other slots, I'm willing to give a pass since it's still D1.

This is E-1 (if I counted correctly).

[hutmeil]

UNVOTE: juice

Nice. I guess townie points for you. I'm still waiting for your survey though.

[hutmeil]

Lol okay, but isn't that Batman in your profile pic?

[hutmeil]

What are your reads on other players

Not gonna do a comprehensive one, but here's my readslist:

[Obviously!]

hutmeil

[The they make sense list (at least for me) and are actively trying to solve things]

Frogsterking
inutile
Eiralox
DeltaWave
Ausuka

[The not so active but presented enough information to get a pass on D1]
furtiveglance
Greeting
Nuclear Gandhi
Mohab500
BlueBloodedToffee
hoppip

[Already explained this. Basically, the slot lurks but is good enough for an elim because he has voted and given his read, so we can get some info next day]

Juice

[hutmeil]

Initially I gave Juice the benefit of the doubt (late RVS??). Then the slot voted Delta which I town lean, then town reads Ausuka for no given reason.

VOTE: Juice

As for the other slots, I'm willing to give a pass since it's still D1.

This is E-1 (if I counted correctly).

at least you counted correctly

this sort of thing a large part of why i vote the way i do

How do you vote?

not really a read list.

more like - you jsut point out four players that have been more active.

then just everyone else.
then the person you want lynched.

quite an embarrassing list really. Also you've nearly had as many posts as me. so i'd ask how come you have a read list - but have nothing to show for it? youn sounds like mafia - looking for an easy day 1 push on someone who has been a bit AFK

Not sure if I respond to this since Juice will be replaced. Anyway, sure you are an easy day 1 push but that is all on you. You pop up on page 8 and claim it's RVS and you're not contributing anything to the game state. Last I checked, the game is about looking for scum and I find you the scummiest hence the vote.

- 132 hutmeil what does this mean? townread whom? the person you vote? For asking "Why are you scumreading Ghandhi? Bit of a non-sequitur I know but I don't want to get into your improv stuff." ?

Oh boy, that's a few pages back already. Let me check... Ah yes, I townread Furtive because he had the same question I had in mind for Frog. Basically what I'm saying is he had the same mindset as mine (trying to solve an inconsistency). Frog was voting you but townread you at the same time. See post 240

Spoiler: Frog Survey

Rate each descriptive statement on how well it describes you using the Likert scale (1 = strongly disagree to 5 = strongly agree).

"Get angry easily" = 3

"Take charge" = 3

"Make people feel welcome" = 4

"Like music" = 5

"Like to tidy up" = 4

"Like to visit new places" = 5

"Feel comfortable around people" = 4

"Interested in many things" = 5

"Love order and regularity" = 5

"Am afraid to draw attention to myself" = 3

"Enjoy being part of a large crowd" = 3

"Cheer people up" = 3

"Lose my temper" = 3

"Enjoy the beauty of nature" = 5

"Enjoy thinking about things" = 5

"Cheat to get ahead" = 1

"Feel desperate" = 2

"Rarely overindulge" = 3

"Easily resist temptations" = 3

"Have a high opinion of myself" = 3

"Waste my time" = 3

"Need a push to get started" = 3

"Have little to contribute" = 3

"Keep my cool" = 4

"Avoid crowds" = 5

"Turn my back on others" = 1

[hutmeil]

I checked his meta and while he isn't the most active player - there is *definitely* something missing here.

VOTE: hutmeil

I get the vote on me sure. Anything I can answer for you to help ease your mind?

[hutmeil]

I guess since Juice is getting replaced...

UNVOTE: Juice

I would like to hear from the slot's replacement.

[hutmeil]

It seems as though I completely misjudged the type of player

furtiveglance

is. I overlooked that furtiveglance is creative because of their style of presentation. Also it appears as though I misjudged their low neuroticism as high conscientiousness which makes sense.

...anyway, I'm seeing some things from

hutmeil

which make me suspicious. 526 pings me hard as being too accommodating. This is something which I've experienced twice before in much larger games coming from scum slots who get eliminated early.

What's wrong with being accomodating? Ausuka susses me, which she is wrong btw, so I want help her see that I'm town considering I'm TRing the slot(for now).

525 is starting to get repetitive. I think the reason it's repetitive is because hutmeil is keen to answer this question wherever it pops up because they have an answer for it.

What? Someone asked me a question and I answered it. Given it's Gandhi who's trying to catch up, I'm trying to be polite and answer him and give him a link to a previous post.

527 is a little lamist and could be an excuse to get off the Juice wagon.

VOTE: hutmeil

My opinion is that hutmeil is scum who is leaning into aspects of their town game quite effectively and not making a lot of obvious mistakes. I think they failed to anticipate the shift in attitude surrounding the Juice slot and got caught in an awkward position. I feel like this is a big lead for Town and I could use help with critical thinking to make sure I'm not getting confbiased.

OR it was the right thing to do. Juice got replaced so the slot deserved a second chance.

I checked his meta and while he isn't the most active player - there is *definitely* something missing here.

VOTE: hutmeil

I get the vote on me sure. Anything I can answer for you to help ease your mind?

I want to acknowledge that I saw this but I think telling you what would ease my mind so you can do those things probably isn't a good idea.

Okay I get that too. I've no problem with that.

I have a total batshit theory now where the UK/Eastern players are Town and the scum are all hiding in the slots playing in US/Western timezones.

Given that logic I'm town then.

My opinion is that hutmeil is scum who is leaning into aspects of their town game quite effectively and not making a lot of obvious mistakes.

tbh hutmeil feels frozen and if he's town then he's kind of an easy target - I would be surprised that mafia didn't target him in that case

^This. After you've put pressure on me, Frog followed suit with unconvincing reasons just to put a vote on me. Trying to test the water perhaps if anyone else will follow suit?

[hutmeil]

^This. After you've put pressure on me, Frog followed suit with unconvincing reasons just to put a vote on me. Trying to test the water perhaps if anyone else will follow suit?

Yeah I have like 6 scum reads and my reasons for voting you look like confbias, so I'm guessing you were one of the slots I was wrong about.

Hmmm okay. Admitting you are wrong seems townie to me.

[hutmeil]

If Frog is opportunistic scum, wouldn't it make sense for him to pivot out of your wagon once it became clear it didn't have much traction?

Yes that makes sense too. I'm keeping both Frog!Town and Frog!Scum points in mind.

[hutmeil]

If Frog is opportunistic scum, wouldn't it make sense for him to pivot out of your wagon once it became clear it didn't have much traction?

Yes that makes sense too. I'm keeping both Frog!Town and Frog!Scum points in mind.

I guess I was wanting to know why you think it's townie of frog with that in mind

Given both points, his action is both townie and scummy at the same time.

However, right now he's been wagon-hopping so I'm scum leaning him at the moment. I know that's NAI (I've seen this in another game and the slot turned out Town) but that's how it feels to me right now.

admittedly, there was some skimming involved but I was able to read the whole game last night,

My worry here is that Gandhi is "perpetually behind" as a scum tactic rather than actually just being too lazy/busy to catch up.

^This. I actually feel the same way. The way he formats his replies bugs me too (sorry Gandhi!). It's a pain to see because of the spacing (or the lack thereof) and I'm wondering if this is a scum tactic to simply look "helpful" with loads of info but is simply buying time.

[hutmeil]

I honestly don’t remember why I did this. I played one game with him where I was scum, and felt threatened enough that I killed him (Newbie 2095). I probably saw the same tone as in that game and just put him into the townbin for that. I will have to check to make sure though.

I remember that game. BBT came in strong and scum killed him for that (as you said).

But I also remembered how you played scum in that game is similar to how you are playing now. You we're posting as needed ( I guess so as not to get prodded ) and flying under the radar and acting helpful to newbies which of course makes you look townie to them.

[hutmeil]

Really scummy post - hutmeil tells juice that it’s on them for being scummy and basically just keeps pushing the angle of scum juice

Am I not allowed to push slots who I think is scummy?

[hutmeil]

I can ask you the same question regarding your comments about my play in 730.

I personally don't like people vote hopping just to pressure. If you want to pressure then ask the slot questions, make a case against him.

[hutmeil]

I guess I'm at E-1. I'll be responding in a bit so don't hammer yet!

[hutmeil]

@Ausuka

Are you open to the idea that hutmeil's townplay has qualities of people pleasing which is the cause of their scummy appearance in this game?

I'd be willing to consider it. I've read his other games to compare, and I don't think his playstyle explains his play here, though. I also think, while people pleasing could explain some of his scummy behaviour, there are other things I scumread that would not be explained by that.

I'm interested to know what you think my playstyle is?

People pleasing? Hmmm, I don't know maybe it's just difference in cultures. From where I'm from we try to be accommodating and polite as possible. But that's RL. Maybe next time it shouldn't spill over in-game since it seems to be misconstrued as scummy behavior.

Also if Hutmeil is town playing scummy I would be very surprised at the lack of momentum that has built on them

They were playing almost exactly the same way as Juice except like slightly less blatant about it and when Juice was at E 1 no one was even talking about hutmeil

I'm not saying that any particular individual is scum with Hutmeil or something - part of the reason this happened is because Juice was blatant, as I said - but as an overall trend it's concerning that so few people have called him out.

Is hutmeil guaranteed to be scum? No. Is he the most likely to be mafia right now? Imo, definitely.

I'm at E-1 now, happy?

I honestly don’t remember why I did this. I played one game with him where I was scum, and felt threatened enough that I killed him (Newbie 2095). I probably saw the same tone as in that game and just put him into the townbin for that. I will have to check to make sure though.

I remember that game. BBT came in strong and scum killed him for that (as you said).

But I also remembered how you played scum in that game is similar to how you are playing now. You we're posting as needed ( I guess so as not to get prodded ) and flying under the radar and acting helpful to newbies which of course makes you look townie to them.

Which newbie did I help this game? I am scumreading

hoppip

, who sounds like a newbie, because this isn't the Newbie queue.

How am I flying under the radar? I have like 3-4 people voting me now.

This post makes zero sense actually and says nothing about how "

BBT

came strong" in your opinion. So you agree with my read and you think I'm likely scum?

I'm not talking about this game. I'm talking about the newbie game where you're helpful to newbies and telling/reminding them what and what not to do.

You have 3-4 people voting you as of your saying that and I believe it's because it's exactly that - you were flying under the radar. I know there's real life and V/LA because of RL, but this could be used by scum to coast. That happened in my last game too. The slot was V/LA because of good actual RL reasons but the slot was scum.

Again, I was talking about the newbie game when I said BBT came in strong and intimidating. I agree that BBT was intimidating that game. You were scum and feel intimidated. I was town and felt it too.

But my point has nothing to do with BBT. What I'm pointing out is, how you're playing now is eerily similar to your newbie scum game.

I just don't really get the hutmeil case. Like I could maybe buy into

he's not being as active as normal

but beyond that its ????

Part of me just feels like voting out MND or Gandhi would be fairly constructive b/c I don't trust Gandhi's

leave me until day 3

and I think MND's plodding catchup is fake.

Ok, I'm going to lay out the case for Hutmeil in this post all together. If it still doesn't go through at least I tried

So, the #1 thing for me is how reactive Hutmeil has been. Almost everything he's done has been *in response* to the actions of someone else, and he's shown very little that looks like genuine scumhunting. In fact, I think unvoting furtive after RVS is one of the only things he's really done proactively and even then you could argue it's just convenient for scum Hutmeil to not be voting anyone.

I agree that I've been reactive this game. I don't think that's AI though? What's wrong with watching how the game goes to see who's scummy and who's not without talking much?

As I've already mentioned I don't like vote hopping. I'd rather vote when I'm convinced with my vote.

I'll give examples to demonstrate this point. In 243 Hutmeil begins his push on Juice after being promoted by Frog and encouraged in that direction.

Pushed and encouraged? If you read that post, there's no pushing or encouragement there, just a question for 3 people which I answered.

Later, in 345 hoppip encourages Hutmeil to place a vote - he quickly responds that he will do so later, and is indeed willing to place an E-1 vote on Juice. I think it's fairly shady how the development of this read was influenced so heavily by others - and it'd be one thing if this was an one time thing, but it's a consistent pattern.

Juice was scummy. Others found him scummy too. What's wrong with voting the scummiest read you have? Sure I reacted to hoppip's post but so what? He asked me to do something and I obliged. I guess I could have been more proactive but I don't think proactive = town. My last game, one of the most proactive players was scum. So no, proactive is not AI.

He only gives a readlist once I press him for one. He becomes more active after being pressured, and most of this is just responding to people talking to or about him. For example in 525 he's responding to Frog and me, and suggests Frog is scum for pushing him, but in response to Frog changing his read, Hutmeil changes his in turn. I challenge him on it - 613 - in a way that suggests he should still be scumreading Frog . And in reaction to this, hutmeil goes back to scumleaning Frog, and waffles that the action was "townie and scummy at the same time" - given he explicitly made a post calling Frog's change of mind townie, I have a very difficult time buying this. I think again, he is very reactive to the other players of this game, and it does not look like he's making an effort to find scum independently, but rather to avoid making any obvious mistakes and skating by.

Again, with all due respect, I don't think being reactive is AI. So when you ask me a readlist and I give you one, that's fine right (I mean you ask me for something and I oblige, I deserve a thank you, no??).

About that Frog exchange, I guess I better clarify since you've been reading it wrong. What I'm trying to say there is that both Frog!Town and Frog!Scum have reason to unvote. Frog!Town unvoting and admitting he was wrong makes sense since why vote for someone if you are wrong about that slot? Frog!Scum unvoting could be as you said an opportunistic move (to go look for a better wagon). So what I'm trying to say is Frog's action was NAI. I was just pointing out the 2 sides of the coin.

Hutmeil displays a lot of conventionally scummy behaviour which I believe is in fact actually scummy. This is definitely similar to the previous point, but there's not much content in his ISO and there's nothing that makes me feel like he's genuinely uninformed and trying to find scum. I believe his readslist post - 408 is a shining example of this. His reads don't have any serious level of thought or depth - players who are active and would make for difficult pushes like me are town, Juice who he has been encouraged to scumread and has been blatantly scummy is his only scumread, and everyone else 'gets a pass' with no real intent to dig into any of their posts or sort them.

I like that you said this. I wanted to see how people react to a 'shitty' readlist as you said. But having said that, I'm updating it to show how I read people now seeing that it looks like I'm about to be eliminated (E-1).

There's no intent to hammer but I've been in a game where people just hammer without claiming intent so I'm claiming VT.

hutmeil

- Confirmed Town. At least that's what my PM says.

Ausuka - She's my biggest adversary right now but I'm town reading her for that. Why? Because I agree that I look scummy. Not only that, she made an attempt to really sort out my slot. Sure scum could have done that too but I feel that her slot sorting is genuine. On the other hand, I've seen super towny slots before that turned out scum. So I also have my doubts there. If I were scum, I might be intimidated by this and kill her off. So if she survives late, I guess it's worth reevaluating that slot. But right now, I'm town leaning her because of what I said previously plus the fact she's the one who's been slot sorting the most.

DeltaWave - I think the slot is town. The posting seems natural and not forced (like how scum would post). And her posts makes sense to me.

Mapuche Never Die - The former Juice slot. A complete contrast. MND is active. I don't have an actual read yet on him though.
hoppip - No updated reads yet.
Eiralox - No updated reads yet.
Nero Cain - No updated reads yet.
Crescent - No updated reads yet.

BlueBloodedToffee - I think the slot was prodded? There was a time that the slot posted a lot of content but after that he's gone. Could be scum biding his time.

furtiveglance - A lot of people have been townreading this slot. I'm focusing though on how he's defending me. Like most of the players are scum reading me but he's strongly defending me, why?
Furtive!Town could be thinking we just finished our newbie game a few games ago and I'm playing cluelessly. Furtive!Scum could be setting himself up so that he gets townie credits once I flip green. Looking back to our newbie game (where he was town), his game was more fun and fluid. Right now he's playing too serious and the vibe is different. So I'm scumleaning him.

Greeting - This is like a small reunion for me, Greeting, Furtive and BBT (newbie game). As I've explained above, I feel that her play now is similar to here scum game before so I'm scum leaning her.

Frogsterking - The survey guy. I still don't see the point of the survey in this game but hey the survey was fun! Anyway, the slot has been all over the place, trying to push multiple wagons. He WAS in my wagon, then opted out when it didn't gain traction and now he IS in my wagon again. He tried to convince Ausuka that I was scummy only because I was "people pleasing" but when the attempt failed he went back at me. Right now, I'm scum reading him.

Nuclear Gandhi - I really don't get why he's able to post loads of content but not able to give a current read. I think that's a blatant scum strategy to buy time.

There's also some behaviour which I think is waffly in a scummy way. 243 is an early example of this. He calls the post 'interesting', and scumreads it while making sure to emphasise repeatedly how uncertain he is - it feels stilted to me.

I don't know what's wrong with that? That's just me thinking out loud. Was looking at Scum!Juice and Town!Juice.

A much better example comes later in 730 specifically his response to me. There are two things I want to highlight - firstly, he flips on Frog when Frog townreads him (of course this is convenient for scum Hutmeil to do) and when I push him on it he argues it's simeltaneously townie and scummy, and then repeats that line in this post. Frankly I think this is nonsense - if you're conflicted about a post made by someone you scumlean, it doesn't make sense to call that post 'townie' and not elaborate until pressed on it. I think the most simple explanation is that Hutmeil wanted to reconcile with Frog, an active player, to increase his odds of survival, but later believed he couldn't successfully justified this and tried to backtrack a little. It's not a great scum strategy but it makes more sense than any other town explanation.

I guess this is similar to the above (and I also explained this higher up).

Some people will probably respond to this by calling a lot of my concerns playstyle. I encourage them to look at hutmeil's completed games as town; they show a lot more independence, genuine scumhunting and overall vigour than he's shown here.

Meta is good but can be manipulated. You can play one way one game and play it differently in another.

Finally, I want to point out his opportunism. He pushes on Juice when that's the done thing, and seems to move on when it's not.

This is taken out of context. Everyone is scum reading him because he was blatantly scummy. When he was replaced, the logical thing to do was unvote to give the replacement a chance to redeem the slot.

When scum Gandhi is being pushed by a lot of people due to his frustrating playstyle Hutmeil is happy to pile on the pressure.

Yes sure because I agree with what others said and I wanted to voice out my frustrations too.

And more recently he's decided to voice a suspicion of Greeting, presumably in preparation to join the wagon. This isn't a massively strong point and I acknowledge all of these players have been scumread fairly widely - but it is convenient for scum Hutmeil that he's always willing and able to jump on the most viable miseliminations.

This is me being proactive. This is me giving out information without being prodded. So you find me scummy for being reactive and proactive???

Anyways, this is my Day 1 final PoE.

hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500

Left out

Mapuche Never Die

and

Nuclear Gandhi

because both of them produced sufficient amounts of good content.

I am happy to eliminate anyone out of these four really and

hutmeil

is a good candidate. I don't think I really need to expand on the

hutmeil

case as everything has been said. His only case was Juice, and when he got replaced, he didn't build a second one.

@

Nero Cain

: if anyone is actively lurking this game, especially since Juice's replace-out, I would say it's

hutmeil

.

What?? Sure I'm being reactive like Aosuka said but I'm not lurking at all. I've been actively responding to questions and vote requests. And unfortunately I'm being scumread for this

I mean MAYBE its just something like a hut/bbt/ and one of hoppip/Eiralox and scum are doing kinda shit all but we'll see.

I sort of don't think Furt would blatantly town read his scum buddy but thats maybe a flip we could consider if the game isn't solved after ^ are flipped. Of course this all depends on hutmeil flipping scum and if he doesn't I think that raises both Furt and Ausuka's scum chances.

VOTE: hutmeil

someone should intent so he can claim and we have time to do something else if we wanted to.

At this point, I think I'm sure to be eliminated. If no one wants to hammer, I'll do it myself. When I flip green, make sure to look at my scum list plus Ausuka (if she lives long enough).

[hutmeil]

I'm lowkey vla on weekends. Will try to post later.

[hutmeil]

Okay done with chores. Will be reading then posting later.

[hutmeil]

Can we get off hutmeil, some bad people jumped on this.

Who exactly, just to be clear? And why are you defending my slot so strongly?

Hutmeil, you're right about me not being as fun and fluid this game. That just depends on my IRL mood, I don't force it if I'm not feeling it.

Okay! It just felt weird but ok. Still, my question above ^ ?

Definitely possible, but I didn't really see anything in his ISO indicating this, and it looks made up. Hutmeil doesn't seem that weird. I'd at least want a more in depth explanation of what he was hoping to achieve and how he was thinking about the situation before writing 850.

I don't like the updated reads, really. It's better than what he did before for sure, but that's a low bar. The reads are easily faked and I don't really find them impressive.

Well, this is just to generate discussion/reaction really. For example, if someone likes my ugly readslist then that slot would be sus for me.

hutmeil - Confirmed Town. At least that's what my PM says.

Your PM says "Confirmed Town"?

Come on now... I'm VT though if you haven't read that already.

So I was making my morning tea and something suddenly dawned on me, in these exact words: "Why the fuck is Hutmeil not on Greeting?"

Hutmeil claimed he scum reads Greeting in #850, and there are just a few hours left in the day. Why isn't he voting him? The only other person in his stated POE who even has a vote is BBT, who is at 1.

Well, I already said I was gonna self-hammer if that's what everyone wanted. That was the vibe before I made that large post and intend to honor that if that's what everyone wants still. But I think some people's minds changed. So I'll let someone else hammer. I do see the point of me being eliminated though. That would shed light on some slots so I agree with my elimination.

Since I'm no longer hammering myself:

VOTE: Greeting

[hutmeil]

and the rest seems really scummy

Why? I'm willing to be a miselim for the sake of Town getting more information?

Or are you referring to something else?

[hutmeil]

Ok this feels fake as fuck.

Maybe, I don't know. But this is D1, so doing for something for info is good.

[hutmeil]

This relates to something I talked about earlier; he really pushed back against my read on him, and seemed fairly irritated,

Yup!

but at the same time said he was being scummy on purpose and understood my read on him. Now he's talking about supporting his own elimination while also voting on Greeting. I feel like there's some dissonance here.

If eliminating me will push the game state forward then by all means elim me (miselim).

But of course, since I'm VT, I feel conflicted about this since the game is about hunting/eliminating scum, not eliminating Town.

[hutmeil]

I don't really think you adequately explained what on earth would drive you to make a terrible readslist on purpose.

I don't think you read my recent post but I made it to get information on D1. It's D1 so getting info by any means possible is good (at least for me).

[hutmeil]

Yup!

Ok but you say you were being intentionally scummy

How are you going to be scummy on purpose, purposefully write bad posts as a gambit and then get mad when people scumread you - while also saying your elimination is good for town

It makes no sense

Not really mad mad. Just that someone I townread scumreads me back.

[hutmeil]

If eliminating me will push the game state forward then by all means elim me (miselim).

But of course, since I'm VT, I feel conflicted about this since the game is about hunting/eliminating scum, not eliminating Town.

Ok great but you said "I agree with my elimination" and discussed self hammering earlier. That's a much harder stance than "if eliminating me will push the gamestate forward then fine." I'd be more willing to chalk it up to a mistake in wording if this was only one line but you seem to have gone repeatedly back and forth on this issue

Why do I get the feeling that you're pushing me to hammer myself?

I don't really think you adequately explained what on earth would drive you to make a terrible readslist on purpose.

I don't think you read my recent post but I made it to get information on D1. It's D1 so getting info by any means possible is good (at least for me).

I read your post but I just do not think this explanation makes sense. Like I guess it's not impossible, but I really don't understand why town would genuinely decide that the best way to get information is to be intentionally scummy and then get irritated when people scumread you for being scummy

I'm not saying it's the best way. It is A way. Basically we don't have any info on D1 so generating reactions is a way to get info on the day with the least info.

[hutmeil]

I have to go now. It's almost 3am here.

Pedit:Sure there are other ways. Don't I have the freedom to choose the way I want?