hi, i'm large normal 242. you and i are day 6

[Titus]

Kinda feeling Frogster StD based on preliminary VCs. Weak because both counterwagons are voting Frogster.

VOTE: StD

[Titus]

I was wondering if it was a bad look for Chungus and Dragons to be refusing to vote each other in the way that they are.

This is the reason I am voting StD and not you. It's also partially why I have my theory as weak. The other reason is flipless.

[Titus]

Bribes are strong. Ego weak.

VOTE: Greeting

[Titus]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why are you so boring?

[Titus]

My brother joined. I need to read up.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.7 !

Big Chungus Gaming (4):

KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo, Frogsterking

Save The Dragons (3):

Gamma Emerald, Charloux, Enchant

Frogsterking (3):

Greeting, Big Chungus Gaming, Save The Dragons

MalcolmTucker (1):

MariaR

Cape90 (1):

SirRhett

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

Enchant (1):

Cape90

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, Fennec

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• e

Can anyone tell me why this wagon died? Kitty and Alisae both wanted it who were dead town.

I am very surprised at the lack of BCG wagon right now.

I have to do some work so I will be catching up as I can but knowing if town was altogether wrong D1 or Alisae was an OH Shit wagon seems important.

If you're Town you aren't showing it. Can you do VCA on the D1 wagons and share your analysis instead of asking these weird questions to pretend like you're analyzing something?

I need gasoline. Might just not read.

I think it's too early for VCA.

[Titus]

…Why is Frog complaining about me not doing VCA when I did start it, but not you when you’ve been here longer?

Are BGC and Frog partners?

Dunno. Is BCG scum your only conclusion?

[Titus]

VOTE: Mathblade

Gasoline vibes.

[Titus]

Start shit up based on gut.

[Titus]

i dont wanna give actual reads

Ok, just don't be boring.

[Titus]

have u read titus? whats ur reads like?

Not since the window I was prodded.

My reads are...start drama

[Titus]

I’d also settle/compromise for a Frog wagon because wtf is that?

Nope.

[Titus]

C’mon Titus let’s go. Bring some reads, I agree with Marci here

Marci just asked a question sooo

Objection: Misstates the evidence!

[Titus]

C’mon Titus let’s go. Bring some reads, I agree with Marci here

Marci just asked a question sooo

Objection: Misstates the evidence!

Objection sustained.

Question does a beard itch?
Refutation: Marci asked for your reads. I agree you should give some

[Titus]

Yes sometimes, no other times.

How is this not blatant spam?

Repeating the same thing and hoping for a different outcome is insane spam jsyk.

Why do you even care about vca w no scum flip?

[Titus]

Too many assumptions. 2 town were likely on all the wagons.

What do you see here based on play?

[Titus]

That's just Frogsterking isn't giving you what you want....

Your assumption is solely vca.

[Titus]

Your assumption is two town = right.

[Titus]

You don't tell us what to do. *shrug*

[Titus]

Ok.

[Titus]

Can we agree on Cape/Frog/Maria/STD/MathBlade as a towncore or ...actually maybe just Frog and me. No one else

I can go Frog and you.

[Titus]

Cape can be scum...

[Titus]

Interesting why Malcolm?

[Titus]

Interesting why Malcolm?

I liked Marci’s case and Malcolm tends to be more wishy washy as scum. Not airtight like a tell but enough to be in my PoE until I can read.

I'd love there. He is boring.

[Titus]

I think I'd be okay with a Titus wagon

*brow*

[Titus]

Boring = NAI

It is not. Watch his votes D1.

Funny, I reach out to you, and you spit in my hand.

[Titus]

As town you can generally find a bit of a mix in terms of my contributions simply based on how much I can get into the game - been a couple where I was useless and disengaged without many reads, been others where I was a lot more open.

So are you “into” this one? I don’t see many useful contributions? Can you help me find yours?

If Malcom is town, he needs to lead.

[Titus]

Hopefully not off a cliff.

Agreed.

@Pooky, why do you think spammy Math is town Math?

[Titus]

Hopefully not off a cliff.

Agreed.

@Pooky, why do you think spammy Math is town Math?

cuz when hes scum he doesnt post proactively he's too busy hiding from me

Disagree on town Math necessarily spamming but okay for now.

[Titus]

Mathblade does seem town but I didn't like his predecessor

This is evidence of a thought process which is completely unnatural.

Why?

[Titus]

If it comes down to Frog or BCG, I am Team Frog all the way.

[Titus]

Frog, who are we voting?

We're not getting the face today. I'd rather eliminate boring but less risky scum in Malcom but I'd settle for a PoE lim.

[Titus]

Could I convince people there's a wolf in BGC/Frog because there 100% probably is? Don't know, it'd probably be easier to vote Save and see where that leads but I'll go the hard route for now.

I’d do Titus over Save.

Save is just eww imho based on Frogs play.

If we could bet, I'd bet your entire pool is town.

[Titus]

You have to realize on some level right now that it's in scum interest to spam the thread up by whatever means necessary and prevent us from consolidating a Town core.

Math scum does this, which is why PookyTheMagicalBear townreading Math based on post quantity makes no sense. PookyTheMagicalBear also said MathBlade wasn't avoiding him but they had no memorable interactions.

I'm actually coming around to town Math because of how dense and wrong he is.

And if anything he should know my accuracy and ability to read Frogster based on the last anon game.

Yet people not playing his way doesn't fit in his worldview regardless of his alignment so it gets discarded.

[Titus]

Oh forgot furtive whoops they’re in the town block

I can agree on Furtive town.

The rest I don't have TRs on.

[Titus]

Could I convince people there's a wolf in BGC/Frog because there 100% probably is? Don't know, it'd probably be easier to vote Save and see where that leads but I'll go the hard route for now.

I’d do Titus over Save.

Save is just eww imho based on Frogs play.

I'm not entirely convinced on Titus scum tbh, could just be misguided villager following Frog who knows. I'm not against Save going over because I think it'd at least wake people up to more scummy slots instead of trying to come up with this false world that's never existed

Ok scratch this. MariaR can be town.

[Titus]

Back to the pool for me. Goated lists keep it up
pedit: You both could be a villagers tbh I'm not putting that world out.
Pooky is just a wolf but meh

Wanna do Pooky? I want to see what happens.

Game is pretty stagnant. People yelling too much, not voting enough.

[Titus]

VOTE: Pooky

And I'd rather get you to stop posting 4-5 times a page so people can coordinate...

Coordinate please...

[Titus]

Like this many wagons to avoid BGC only reinforces BGC scum to me

No one wants to work with you Mathblade because you aren't listening. Everything gets filtered through your worldview and repeated over again. You respond to every conversation interrupting people and blocking reactions. I refused to give reads because it would cause you to post more and I feel like they are shit in this environment.

I can't tell BCG from Save from Enchant atm.

[Titus]

VOTE: pooky

Oh hell no

I don’t want Pooky anymore

Case in point.

Your Pooky read is dependent on your Frogsterking read. Data isn't changing and you aren't investigating.

You're fitting actions to your theory, which makes everyone eyeroll.

[Titus]

Why are you so against me trying to lead coordination?

If you're you have no idea what you're doing right now

+1 I have like 95% certainty on Frogsterking town.

[Titus]

Titus when town is like “rah rah rah town block”.

Imho her and Frogger are treating the game thread like the scum PT.

Beeboop. I must behave the same way every game. Beeep!

[Titus]

I will slow roll it since Pooky immediately got 3 votes on them, but I could see the blunt directness they display as scummy

We need larger wagons to get anywhere....

[Titus]

The thing is, the way Titus is playing is not reminding me of her wolf game that I played in this other large game, it moreso makes me confuse

We played in a large?

[Titus]

id address the case on me but it doesnt exist so pls vote for someone who has a possibility of being scum instead ok thx

Like who?

Also, can you explain your Math read more? It males no sense.

[Titus]

Can you provide examples Pooky?

[Titus]

Spoiler: This game

I will slow roll it since Pooky immediately got 3 votes on them, but I could see the blunt directness they display as scummy

We need larger wagons to get anywhere....

Titus when town is like “rah rah rah town block”.

Imho her and Frogger are treating the game thread like the scum PT.

Beeboop. I must behave the same way every game. Beeep!

Like this many wagons to avoid BGC only reinforces BGC scum to me

No one wants to work with you Mathblade because you aren't listening. Everything gets filtered through your worldview and repeated over again. You respond to every conversation interrupting people and blocking reactions. I refused to give reads because it would cause you to post more and I feel like they are shit in this environment.

I can't tell BCG from Save from Enchant atm.

You have to realize on some level right now that it's in scum interest to spam the thread up by whatever means necessary and prevent us from consolidating a Town core.

Math scum does this, which is why PookyTheMagicalBear townreading Math based on post quantity makes no sense. PookyTheMagicalBear also said MathBlade wasn't avoiding him but they had no memorable interactions.

I'm actually coming around to town Math because of how dense and wrong he is.

And if anything he should know my accuracy and ability to read Frogster based on the last anon game.

Yet people not playing his way doesn't fit in his worldview regardless of his alignment so it gets discarded.

I am sure there’s even better examples in her iso earlier but on mobile

Like this is like bad

If Pooky is town, okay chance Titus could end up being scum.

Ok, going back here.

Not only boring but spineless.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[Titus]

Malcom and StD are likely scum.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.7 !

Big Chungus Gaming (4):

KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo, Frogsterking

Save The Dragons (3):

Gamma Emerald, Charloux, Enchant

Frogsterking (3):

Greeting, Big Chungus Gaming, Save The Dragons

MalcolmTucker (1):

MariaR

Cape90 (1):

SirRhett

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

Enchant (1):

Cape90

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, Fennec

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• e

If we suppose that then, Frogsterking is almost certainly town.

I partially understand wanting to flip BCG regardless of if I am right or wrong for the VCA, but that's not evidence BCG is scum.

[Titus]

why? because i'm voting you for not doing anything all game?

That would make sense if you voted me a few pages ago.

Your statement is patently false now and opportunistic.

[Titus]

why what changed?

what makes it opportunistic? who else is coming after you right now?

Math pushes me as scum, MalcolmTucker is floating me being scum. Voting me gives you a place to hide and stir up drama.

I have been coordinating wagons to sort (see Pooky wagon) for the last few pages. You seem interested in forcing me v Math to continue when it's not productive.

[Titus]

why what changed?

what makes it opportunistic? who else is coming after you right now?

Math pushes me as scum, MalcolmTucker is floating me being scum. Voting me gives you a place to hide and stir up drama.

I have been coordinating wagons to sort (see Pooky wagon) for the last few pages. You seem interested in forcing me v Math to continue when it's not productive.

StD voted BGC first before I replaced in.

Explain how StD is using me voting BGC to hide there?

That’s like ???

And he moved from BGC to you?

Your questions don't make any sense so I can't answer them.

BcG has nothing to do with my FoS on StD

[Titus]

Std can’t be needing a place to hide, because he never was hiding.

Std voted BGC.
I vote BGC.

Std Votes Titus
I vote you.

So how exactly is StD “hiding” when he’s first?

And like if you push Pooky scum you’re “coordinating” but if I push BGC or you then it’s “noise” or “loud”

It’s just manipulation rather than cooperation.

Name something StD has done other than vote Frogsterking, me or BCG.

[Titus]

that's still like 3 things compared to your one thing of voting pooky

Voted =/= doing something.

[Titus]

Voted Cape90.
Lots of read walls.

Still reading the game but those three votes if he did them sound awesome.

Right he agrees with you so he must be town.

Did you forget he was a D1 wagon too?

StD has been jumping on town when he gets the chance because someone else pushes.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.6 !

Big Chungus Gaming (3):

KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo

Save The Dragons (3):

Gamma Emerald, Frogsterking, Charloux

MalcolmTucker (2):

MariaR, Big Chungus Gaming

MariaR (2):

Nero Cain, Save The Dragons

Cape90 (1):

SirRhett

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

Frogsterking (1):

Greeting

Charloux (1):

Cape90

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, Fennec

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• prodding fennec & sirrhett, who don't seem to have returned after the site outage

Spoiler:

vote count 1.7 !

Big Chungus Gaming (4):

KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo, Frogsterking

Save The Dragons (3):

Gamma Emerald, Charloux, Enchant

Frogsterking (3):

Greeting, Big Chungus Gaming, Save The Dragons

MalcolmTucker (1):

MariaR

Cape90 (1):

SirRhett

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

Enchant (1):

Cape90

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, Fennec

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• e

Look at these two wagons. If your primary concern is who avoided BCG, StD is one of the biggest culprits by voting Frogsterking instead. Your slot was voting StD.

[Titus]

BGC wagon is because the two dead town agree on it.
If another town dies and it tells me my reads wrong I change.

So basically you'll listen to no one on BcG unless they're dead?

Even if BCG is proven not a lurker?

[Titus]

that's still like 3 things compared to your one thing of voting pooky

Voted =/= doing something.

okay cool i guess you've done nothing either then according to you?

ok i'll take a step back

what should i be doing that i'm not doing

Yes. Some sort of reads that aren't exactly what's going on in the thread.

[Titus]

@Enchant what would you do here?

@Math, I am unwilling to vote BcG or Frogsterking. Is there any room to work together? There's more than two scum.

[Titus]

@Enchant what would you do here?

@Math, I am unwilling to vote BcG or Frogsterking. Is there any room to work together? There's more than two scum.

Our pools just seem to be in complete disarray here.

I don’t see us working together until you explain why you don’t want to elim BGC.

I don't see a single decent reason to vote BCG beyond getting reactions which you're not helping with drowning out everyone else.

Doubly so when your biggest reason for voting is lurker which is patently false.

BCG is a strong TR of Frogsterking and he's my biggest TR.

[Titus]

Frogster's progressions have made less and less sense to me

MathBlade hasn't responded to my point about Frogster, IE. 1514

How so?

[Titus]

The Pooky wagon does look pretty pure AtM

[Titus]

Still at MB/Titus TvT

Math might be town, which will dampen my enjoyment if he is. Luckily, I have the night to cool off to not say something stupid.

[Titus]

VOTE: Pooky

I'm not going in circles with Mathblade. In 1690, he essentially repeats the lurker claim which is false by just looking at the activity overview. He's going to dismiss anything we say as "not a reason". If Math hadn't hyped this up as OMG vote my scum read or die, I might have voted for reactions. For now, I'll trust Frog. Also, Math should know how good I am at reading Frog, so if I flip first force him to eat his words on listening to flipped town. I do not have the will, desire or energy to fight this arrogant version of Math. I should have kept refusing to share reads so he'd have to spam less but I felt it worthwhile to at least try.

My preference is Malcolm. If Malcom scum, hard clear Toog. However, I don't mind a Pooky flip.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Pooky

You do what you think is best Pooky. I don't really care. If you think it would help Math have a realization moment, please do.

[Titus]

I have three hours of driving ahead of me. I won't be responsive. As long as no speed hammer, I don't care.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Pooky

You do what you think is best Pooky. I don't really care. If you think it would help Math have a realization moment, please do.

I am curious do you think the wagon on Pooky is still pure?

Yes, but I'm too tired to reset and things are ongoing.

[Titus]

Literally just said I was too tired to reset.....

[Titus]

I'm stopped for gas.

Math needs to be shut up about his nonsense of me being scum because I disagree. If you're certain it will go ahead.

[Titus]

I didn't investigate Frog. I did crumb my result which woyld be evident on my flip. No hard inno.

Suspect about 3 invests.

[Titus]

Mainly I think Titus if town would have a hard inno.

But if she’s faking at having not having a hard inno to survive I want her to out her target.

My role, for the most part, precludes hard innos.

[Titus]

I'll give my full thoughts once I get into my hotel.

I think, regardless of Pooky's alignment, that he did investigate me.

[Titus]

Mainly I think Titus if town would have a hard inno.

But if she’s faking at having not having a hard inno to survive I want her to out her target.

My role, for the most part, precludes hard innos.

Then you have the world’s most contradictory crumbs.

You have the wrong crumbs.

[Titus]

Definitely looking forward to that explanation for sure.

Great. You can get it when I flip. Crumbs are role dependent and I have no desire to claim.

Since you already claimed, do you care to share your result? Or are you content crumbing?

[Titus]

Definitely looking forward to that explanation for sure.

Great. You can get it when I flip. Crumbs are role dependent and I have no desire to claim.

Since you already claimed, do you care to share your result? Or are you content crumbing?

Already did.

Cape had no one visit them.

I did not visit Cape, so no contradiction.

[Titus]

I have 95% confidence on Frogsterking because of my read of him. That was my read yesterday as well, so I don't get why any of you thought that was a crumb.

My read comes from recognizing him in the anon game. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I don't think I am.

[Titus]

If I have to get it after your flip I am okay flipping you now since your claim contradicts your crumbs.

I’d rather work together to form a plan to confirm invests and who is truth telling and not.

I’d like to maybe have all invests gather on you and you visit someone

Pooky says who you visited and I report how many visited you,

Win win

Pooky is not a tracker. He determines the type of action performed. Pooky visiting me is a waste.

[Titus]

Pooky on Toog makes the most sense since Toog claimed Invest.

[Titus]

Toog could visit me then for all I care.

[Titus]

Then swap you for Toog?

Pooky visit Toog?
You visit Toog?

I visit Toog?

Toog does thing?

Pooky and me visiting the same target is a waste and part of why I don't clear Pooky.

[Titus]

Toog could visit me then for all I care.

Tbh I am really hoping you pan out.

Are you sure you can’t say who you visited?

Because you’re the sketchiest of the claims to me by a country mile.

I'm the sketchiest to you because I strongly disagree with your reads. Mechanically, I'm the least sketchy. Pooky and I would both have to be lying for me to not be an investigator.

[Titus]

Then swap you for Toog?

Pooky visit Toog?
You visit Toog?

I visit Toog?

Toog does thing?

Pooky and me visiting the same target is a waste and part of why I don't clear Pooky.

It’s not though.

I will see two invest actions if you’re telling the truth,

Or you could just see reason and not waste any actions at all.

[Titus]

I don't have a hard innocent or guilty, so it's much better to sit on the information. You're looking for crumbs for guilty or innocent when my crumb isn't interesting at all. In fact, it's rather often obvious and plain.

That should be confirmation hint after I flip.

[Titus]

There is a specific crumb that 100% mandates you to have an inno.

Really? Where is this crumb then? I'd like to show you that you have no idea how to read it.

[Titus]

Kinda feeling Frogster StD based on preliminary VCs. Weak because both counterwagons are voting Frogster.

VOTE: StD

I was wondering if it was a bad look for Chungus and Dragons to be refusing to vote each other in the way that they are.

This is the reason I am voting StD and not you. It's also partially why I have my theory as weak. The other reason is flipless.

Bribes are strong. Ego weak.

VOTE: Greeting

Weak player, alive, doesn’t have inno? *confused Mathy face*

Nope. Not an intended crumb. My crumb is repeated and only decipherable post flip.

[Titus]

Weak in that context meant strength of reads.

[Titus]

Right. Without my flip, my crumbs aren't obvious. That's the point of crumbs, particularly ones without hard innocents or guilties.

Pooky may well be a scum follower. You could be a panicked scum invest.

Why did you target Cape?

[Titus]

I’d like to elim BGC and get commitments on who is investing who so I can voyeur and confirm which will leash the scum.

I'll investigate BcG if you leave him and Frogsterking be today. Let's do Malcolm.

[Titus]

I’d like to elim BGC and get commitments on who is investing who so I can voyeur and confirm which will leash the scum.

I'll investigate BcG if you leave him and Frogsterking be today. Let's do Malcolm.

That’s one commitment down.

Although I literally have no one I can elim if you suggest that so it’s down a vote because I literally cannot make a world without one of you three. I’ve been trying.

Like the odds of hitting town are astronomical.

That's because you're tunneled.

There's plenty of actual, viable suspects if you can separate from your conclusions and reset.

Look at the VCs supposing that BcG Frogsterking and I are town

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.8 !

Big Chungus Gaming (4):

KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo, Frogsterking

Save The Dragons (3):

Gamma Emerald, Charloux, Enchant

Frogsterking (3):

Greeting, Big Chungus Gaming, Save The Dragons

Enchant (2):

Cape90, furtiveglance

MalcolmTucker (1):

MariaR

Cape90 (1):

Titus

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

not voting (1):

MalcolmTucker

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• working up the vote count count

Spoiler:

vote count 1.9 !

Greeting (4):

Frogsterking, Cape90, Titus, PookyTheMagicalBear

Big Chungus Gaming (3):

KittyTacky, Toogeloo, Greeting

MalcolmTucker (2):

Not_Mafia, furtiveglance

Save The Dragons (1):

MariaR

Frogsterking (1):

Save The Dragons

Enchant (1):

Big Chungus Gaming

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

furtiveglance (1):

Enchant

not voting (1):

MalcolmTucker, Charloux

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• e

Spoiler:

vote count 1.10 !

Alisae (5):

Frogsterking, furtiveglance, Titus, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo

Frogsterking (3):

Save The Dragons, Big Chungus Gaming, MariaR

Big Chungus Gaming (2):

KittyTacky, Alisae

MalcolmTucker (1):

Not_Mafia

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

furtiveglance (1):

Enchant

not voting (3):

MalcolmTucker, Charloux, Cape90

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• e

You're asking the wrong question imo.
I don't think it's a bad guess that scum preferred Greeting over BcG. If that's your theory, then your eyes should go directly to PookyTheMagicalBear because he shifted off BcG to go to Greeting, effectively killing BcG as a counter.

Even if we suppose that scum preferred eliminating Greeting/Alisae over BcG, that says nothing about BcG's alignment. Scum could want Alisae dead before they shook up the game. BcG could be loud and wrong town. Maybe they want BcG for a miselimination for later.

VCA is too early to get most details.

However, stD and Frogsterking are almost certainly not partners. Like 10% chance.

[Titus]

Even if one of the three wagons is scum, there's no specific reason why BcG. My money is StD is the scum wagon.

However, it's day 2 and no mafia flip, so strongly prefer Malcolm. He's basic and never saw Star Wars.

[Titus]

I did some self reflection and I decided that Pooky is scum.

Why?

[Titus]

Even if one of the three wagons is scum, there's no specific reason why BcG. My money is StD is the scum wagon.

However, it's day 2 and no mafia flip, so strongly prefer Malcolm. He's basic and never saw Star Wars.

That’s where Alisae and Kitty come in. End of day (or close to it 1.19) they’re both on BGC.

Given the size of the wagons, two town on one is meaningless.

[Titus]

Even if one of the three wagons is scum, there's no specific reason why BcG. My money is StD is the scum wagon.

However, it's day 2 and no mafia flip, so strongly prefer Malcolm. He's basic and never saw Star Wars.

That’s where Alisae and Kitty come in. End of day (or close to it 1.19) they’re both on BGC.

Given the size of the wagons, two town on one is meaningless.

No one listens to dead town.

We should break that cycle.

Agreed, but we should do it with more data. Kitty could have been killed for a multitude of reasons.

Right now, we should focus on play. That should likely mean us taking a back seat and seeing what shakes out. I'd want to see what Pooky with the floor.

I also want to watch StD.

[Titus]

I did some self reflection and I decided that Pooky is scum.

Why?

There are a lot of elements of his scum play present and I don't trust he has a town!motivation for claiming when he did.

What's the scum motivation?

[Titus]

I did some self reflection and I decided that Pooky is scum.

Why?

There are a lot of elements of his scum play present and I don't trust he has a town!motivation for claiming when he did.

What's the scum motivation?

Out roles and get pressure off.

So you're suspecting that town!Pooky never thinks I am crumbing an inno there? Why would scum pooky suggest it then?

[Titus]

Why did you investigate me Pooky?

[Titus]

I'm going to sleep on this.

I'd love your thoughts on where we should go Pooky.

[Titus]

I wouldn't be surprised if almost everyone was an investigator of some type at this point.

Math
Toog
Pooky
Myself
Marci

[Titus]

this is why rolecop is a useless role because everyone will claim anyway.

Also don’t know why you guys are doing setup spec with no wolf flips and people can easily be lying

Who said anything about rolecop?

[Titus]

one day my jokes will hit.

What's the punchline?

[Titus]

Wow okay

Let’s vote out BGC and mass claim. We are at close to half the game claimed invest.

Anyone who wants to be voyeur checked out their target.

No and no.

How did you skip right over MariaR's "joke"? Can you explain it to me?

[Titus]

It’s kinda why I want everyone to hit the same target as much as possible and I voyeur it. Preferably someone in the investigator list

That way we either get a likely clear based on the num of invests hitting the target

Or scum have to kill me or waste an RB on a player heading to that target.

Mainly it’s about taking control away from scum.

Massclaim puts all the control in scums hands. This is not a game that can be broken by mech.

[Titus]

And if she's not?

[Titus]

And if she's not?

*shrug*

Then she’s not joking and rolecop is useless here? I don’t follow

Why randomly say rolecop is useless when no direct evidence of a rolecop exists?

[Titus]

@Furtiveglance What's your pooky read?

[Titus]

And if she's not?

*shrug*

Then she’s not joking and rolecop is useless here? I don’t follow

Why randomly say rolecop is useless when no direct evidence of a rolecop exists?

Maybe she’s a rolecop?
Maybe she hates the role in general?
I know I have a general distaste for it as a scum balancer unless scum are given time to find and kill the invests.

I don’t know?

First is a no given the context of her posting.
Second, hating a role doesn't mean you randomly bring it up. There's a trigger.
What's your taste have to do with this?

I don't think it's a joke. I think MariaR investigated and found a rolecop.

[Titus]

That or deduced it.

[Titus]

I think her context makes her a fine rolecop claim but I really think that mass claim again solves this problem.

Then we decide a universal target to “cop” check as a thread.

No. You're supposing things to make her post less problematic just to get what you want.

I don't think letting BcG live means all invest claims die.

Can you just let people play?

[Titus]

@Furtiveglance What's your pooky read?

Town

Claim seems to check out with other roles

Reads list generally?

[Titus]

We massclaiming already?

No.

[Titus]

Pooky/maria (could be both but unlikely given how pooky wagon played out) std furtive malcolm looks like a decent start to me. Not mafia/enchant for leftovers.

Anyone else is likely town.

[Titus]

What’s your better plan to keep people accountable then?

Play mafia and realize the game doesn't revolve around one player's mech that essentially roleblocks everyone for a night for no info.

[Titus]

I'm not getting into a debate with you on mech. No one slot needs a crap ton of investigations. I'm not obeying King Math.

I'm willing to talk with Player Math about my reads.

[Titus]

one day my jokes will hit.

What's the punchline?

The point of a role is to find out what roles are in the game.

Rolecop is a useless role when everyone massclaims.

That was the joke. I haven't claimed yet so.

Ok fair.

[Titus]

Yall are too lost in the claim spec when we should just play mafia and vote out the scummy players, I don't really care about any of the d2 invest claims that clearly don't have anything groundbreaking yet when we can just get more info.

This.

What do you think of my reads?

[Titus]

Toog, thoughts on my reads in 1954?

[Titus]

We get the same thing by playing.

Please comment on my reads.

[Titus]

What do you feel has been deflected? Do you really think all my scumreads are town?

[Titus]

That's not discussing my reads. Frankly, I see StD as scum in the VCA. He was an active poster before this. StD's reaction to the claims to say "That's a lot of claims" and dip.

I am sick of going around on BcG. Let's talk about other slots.

[Titus]

*He was an active poster =BcG bad grammar

[Titus]

Math, just because you say something repeatedly doesn't mean the majority of town agree with you. Two slots flat out disagreed with you publicly.

I still am trying to work with you and I have a scum pool which I have been begging for your thoughts on.

I wish you would have listened before 7 claims....

[Titus]

There's an open invitation to discuss my scumpool in 1954. I'm not stopping you.

Your mechanics were just flat out wrong and proscum. Period. There isn't an in depth discussion of a plan that requires massive coordination. There is no need for an alternate plan when the best plan is to leave people to their own devices.

The leader should get the best of people, not shove an opinion down throats.

[Titus]

You can't complain that you can't discuss reads with me and then claim you discussed them with Frogsterking. I'd like to have a productive discussion with you, but that seems impossible. You're relying on things that are untrue.

For example, you completely forgot about Marcistar objecting.

if anyone else wants to do it thats fine but i wont

You still present this as the majority of town agreeing still.

I do value your thoughts but I have to be working with someone who is listening and open to dialogue.

We've been over and over your thoughts and you dismiss any different opinion as reasonless.

Your idea: Everyone target the same target. You voyeur them.

[Titus]

*shrug* Apparently you have no interest in actually talking about anything other than your plan which we've gone over (p.s. you asked for a summary of it) or your vca, which we have also been over. The minute you want to massively coordinate roles like that, I am out. I love VCA but I don't treat it as a catch all on D1.

[Titus]

K, BcG claim wasn't what I was expecting. D1 play makes no sense. FoS BcG and Pooky now.

Let's lim Pooky. BcG will sort himself as a bodyguard claim.

[Titus]

K, BcG claim wasn't what I was expecting. D1 play makes no sense. FoS BcG and Pooky now.

I was expecting BcG to claim Masons with marci ftr

Masons are highly unlikely with the claims so far.

Part of me thinks my n1 target might be the token and town but I'd like for them to take the lead.

[Titus]

K, BcG claim wasn't what I was expecting. D1 play makes no sense. FoS BcG and Pooky now.

I was expecting BcG to claim Masons with marci ftr

Masons are highly unlikely with the claims so far.

Part of me thinks my n1 target might be the token and town but I'd like for them to take the lead.

Then why did you push for them constantly despite me telling you no?

Like you make no sense

Huh?

[Titus]

K, BcG claim wasn't what I was expecting. D1 play makes no sense. FoS BcG and Pooky now.

I was expecting BcG to claim Masons with marci ftr

Masons are highly unlikely with the claims so far.

Part of me thinks my n1 target might be the token and town but I'd like for them to take the lead.

Then why did you push for them constantly despite me telling you no?

Like you make no sense

Huh?

You pushed for redacted to be elimmed constantly

Now you want redacted to lead

You make no sense

I can’t explain without outing who I think your target is

If redacted is town, then they should have always been a leader. They weren't so I pushed. I still think that they're scum but I do highlight counter evidence.

[Titus]

I don't play regarding crumbs until after revealed. Why should Frogsterking?

Frogsterking interprets the crumb as scummy. I don't. He's entitled to his opinion.

As for Pooky, no one is ignoring his claim. In fact, I haven't seen anyone doubt its truth. The question is whether town!Pooky or scum!Pooky investigated me.

[Titus]

.....

Ships passing in the night. Why do you think Frogsterking is ignoring the crumbs when he says BcG's claim makes him scummy?

We don't need you reposting the crumbs. We know what they are. It's your position that Frogsterking is ignoring stuff that makes no sense...

[Titus]

I kinda want to vote Maria for absolutely adding nothing to this whole situation

Why not StD?

[Titus]

.....

Ships passing in the night. Why do you think Frogsterking is ignoring the crumbs when he says BcG's claim makes him scummy?

We don't need you reposting the crumbs. We know what they are. It's your position that Frogsterking is ignoring stuff that makes no sense...

The crumbs are incredibly protown.

He’s ignoring the fact they are remotely protown.

Town very rarely if ever crumbs a role they aren’t.

So? I agree with you. Frogsterking reaching a different conclusion is ok. There's other interpretations. I like ours. Disagreement isn't scummy. Frogsterking is aware of the strategy, like you are.

Let's just lim Pooky and call it a day.

[Titus]

VOTE: Pooky

I think I already am, but for good measure.

[Titus]

Why would Pooky

as scum

crumb his role?

Honest claims from scum happen. I can't recall a game where I crumbed my role as scum (but I likely have). I know I outright claimed my role as scum in a game in post one and won that one.

Scum have more knowledge than us. If you townread Pooky, fine. Try to work with me.

[Titus]

Frogsterking, do you believe Pooky guessed lucky or that he knew somehow?

[Titus]

I'm disloyal

Do you have a result N1?

[Titus]

Who said anything about NM being a vigilante?

[Titus]

BCG should protect NM cuz NM is the stronger TPR

NM can conftown me by himself

No. Scum doc or rb

[Titus]

Pooky, who is scum?

[Titus]

BCG should protect NM cuz NM is the stronger TPR

NM can conftown me by himself

No. Scum doc or rb

Mathblade can Voyeur NM or Me to counteract RB/Doctor

That would have to be on you.

Math targeting Pooky wouldn't generate a result in a you blocked world.

[Titus]

VOTE: Maria

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Maria

In context, how is this a follower crumb?

I'm thinking about your offer. I was trying to find the context where MariaR claims VT and I saw this.

Makes me doubt Pooky was crumbing follower.

[Titus]

I'll do MariaR if the Pooky wagon disassembles. Both would help me resolve some uncertainties. I feel it's more likely Pooky is scum though.

I feel the NM disloyal vig can be done on anyone.

[Titus]

I'll do MariaR if the Pooky wagon disassembles. Both would help me resolve some uncertainties. I feel it's more likely Pooky is scum though.

I feel the NM disloyal vig can be done on anyone.

It can but I would rather it be done on Pooky since there’s a ton of conflict there.

If I can do BGC + NM + Pooky in one go
And eat a bullet so invests go off

I really feel that’s best.

We need an elimination and coordinating another that's acceptable is very difficult in this environment. I don't feel Pooky is lock scum by any means but Frogsterking and I are in lockstep with how we view the possibility of Pooky's claim. I have found Pooky's scumhunting a bit lacking. Pooky's not one of my first choices but he could be scum.

If I was queen, it would be StD or Malcolm wagons but I'm not.

[Titus]

why is frogsterking's read on me important to you?

we were literally just in a game together where we were in a dance pair and you were scum and you saw frogsterking hard tunnel town!me even after I told him I would leave the dance so why do you think his read here is good

like i literally told him stop talking to you because I will leave right away and he didnt believe me and kept talking to you and got himself identity guessed and lost us the game

all he had to do was shut up and wait for teal to be voted out and then I leave the game

if he didnt believe me - all he had to do was WAIT and SEE IF I WOULD LEAVE but his conviction in his own reads was so strong that he kept talking and got himself killed

so why do you believe he is right now

I had no idea you were blue. Sure, I'm aware Frogsterking can be wrong but I put a lot of stock into his early game based on my experiences with him in TFT. I love foils that bring an opposite skillset to the table. We ate so many bullets that game when we syngerized well.

The evidence I used to guess happened before you told him to shut up I think but I get your point.

[Titus]

Std and Malcolm just are not likely scum here if your result is true.

Contrary. Given the setup, I would likely find StD Malcolm MariaR has likely a scum in it if my result is true barring really insane odds.

[Titus]

Explain 4 and why Pooky is so important to be the one. You're asking me to unvote the largest wagon of a stagnant game that works withs that has a pure wagon. Pretty big ask.

Take your time. In lol queue

[Titus]

Also her point is silly
She scums spects Maria
Maria is on wagon
Ergo wagon not pure

I think Maria is town and Pooky is the scum in Pooky/Maria but neither is locked. I could be wrong on both

[Titus]

I claimed invest but not what I was. Pooky's action is true.

[Titus]

lets just vote out malcolm guys

Get a wagon and I'm there. I'm not letting one suspect go to chase another. Quick way to get a town elimination.

[Titus]

VOTE: Malcolm

[Titus]

I am vig, what should I do?

Nm is vig not just "killing"

[Titus]

Math, I want to hear all of Frogsterking's claim.

Then, I'll be in favor of finishing massclaim.

[Titus]

My N1 report on furtive indicates novice JOAT (roleblocker, alien, tracker).

Furtive's real role.

Your conditions?

[Titus]

I still think we flip Furtiveglance but I trust Frogsterking less.

[Titus]

Plot hole, I'm a limited shot rolecop and I investigated MalcolmTucker. Hence why I repeated over and over MalcolmTucker is boring.

[Titus]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Titus]

I can't trust Frogsterking as much as I used to. Regardless, I can't see scum!Frogster faking a guilty on town!furtiveglance so furtiveglance is still the play.

[Titus]

I know schadd bucks trends but I want to see if Frog bussed furtive in order to avoid a Malcolm elim or mass claim.

Frog bussing furtive for these rationales doesn't make sense with the game thread.

Malcolm's vanilla so why would Frogsterking bus a PR to save a less active vanilla?

Frog was one of the few unclaimed spots, so him claiming makes mass claim more likely not less.

[Titus]

But if I am scum with a guilty why do I force Pooky for half the game thread with no reason?

He didn't have the guilty until this morning when furtiveglance claimed.....

[Titus]

alien is like a roleblock which also roleblocks players who targeted my target

No. That's a rolestopper.

[Titus]

I missed also...ignore me please

[Titus]

i think furtive sounds like scum

Vote please?

I want out of this day...

[Titus]

Furtive, reads please.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: furtiveglance

I am playing this like a Cubs fan on a jury trial....

[Titus]

I'm struggling to buy two town rolecops and Frogsterking being the only ungated claim...

I can buy missing a joke...

[Titus]

But I don't think it's a joke though and I can't put a motive to scum Frogsterking

[Titus]

Frog, I am going to check in my pool of 1954.

Go elsewhere please.

[Titus]

Spoiler: For the Legally Curious

The record in a criminal proceeding is a written record of everything said in a court proceeding. It includes charging documents (what someone is charged with), summaries of prior proceedings (minutes), plea forms, testimonies, etc.

A witnesses expressions, demeanor, and physical description are not part of the record.

This is why it's common to hear "Let the record reflect the witness has identified the defendant" or something similar.

Quoting mafia posts is more analogous to a readback. A readback is when a jury gets readback portions of the record. The jury must accept the reporter's transcript as true and accurate.

[Titus]

I believe what you're asking for is a finding of fact (determining if something is true) but I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Titus]

Well strike that. You're asking for a witness's opinion or answer. Findings of facts are mod posts.

[Titus]

Let the record show that a wagon is having trouble forming despite the guilty on furtive

The record will reflect any witness opinion the moment it is typed.

[Titus]

What the fuck happened while I was gone

Tldr
Furtive claimed VT
Frog claimed rolecop with result Furtive is Joat with RB Alien and tracker
For some reason furtive isn’t already hammered

Wow look it's the roleblock to counter all the invests

VOTE: Furtive

Plothole, I am a limited shot rolecop. Was left out of tldr.

Frog saw your question. Give me 30.

[Titus]

How is a direct matching claim irrelevant?

[Titus]

We likely will flip Furtive today, and I likely will still feel Frog is town. That doesn't mean that this position is irrelevant.

Frog could very well be scum taking advantage of Furtitive's "joke". It's reasonable doubt. Mafia isn't played to beyond a reasonable doubt standard but hardly irrelevant.

[Titus]

Assessing the validity of Frogsterking's complaint is the number one issue. We can't just assume something is a guilty because it's easy to do so. If you're giving a tldr, do it right.

[Titus]

Not_Mafia - Vigilante
Enchant - Vigilante
Frogsterking - Didn't Claim
MalcolmTucker - Didn't Claim
Big Chungus Gaming - Loyal Bodyguard (Didn't claim actions)

Spoiler: Acts

N1: ???

Save The Dragons - Didn't Claim
furtiveglance - Didn't Claim
PookyTheMagicalBear - Follower

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Titus. Result: Investigative Action

Cape90 - Claims "Not Investigative"
Titus - Didn't Claim
Toogeloo - Claims "Investigative"
MathBlade - Vouyer

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Cape90. Result: No one.

marcistar - Modified Tracker

Spoiler: Acts:

N1: No Action

MariaR - Vanilla Townie

Alisae - Vanilla Townie
kittytacky - Fruit Vendor

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Not_Mafia

Did i miss anything?

Put me down as a gated, loyal, voyeuristic, investigative vanilla town.

@MariaR, How would you take this post by furtiveglance?

[Titus]

I still have my conflicts but I don't see how I can resolve them.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Titus]

I almost forgot. Frog's question.

[Titus]

I'd turbo lim MalcolmTucker tomorrow based off the readwalls and applying the rule of three.

[Titus]

I'd be perfectly content with a Furtive elimination at this point as well from a brief catch-up. Their jokey/playful tone doesn't feel natural and sounds more like scum to me trying to dodge suspicion by looking like they don't care, without having to particularly commit to reads.

Vote for me then, get your hands dirty.

How many votes are you at? I'm wary because it seems you've accumulated a good few and we have some notorious quickhammer players in the game. If it's settled to eliminate you though I'm more than happy to hammer.

ur literally scum

We know marci. You me and Frog can lim him tmo.

[Titus]

Oh my god these are the top 2 wagons? I didn't know Christmas came early

Oh good. Looks like we have a core.

[Titus]

Oh my god these are the top 2 wagons? I didn't know Christmas came early

Oh good. Looks like we have a core.

I disagree.

I still think one of you and/or Frog are scum.

But I think I will be dead probably or I will have enough info to make a mechanically confirmed one.

It's quite possible Frog is scum, but I'm also okay working with him as long as the results are good.

[Titus]

pooky claimed that frogster was clear somehow off an investigative action that pooky supposedly confirmed.

titus was claiming an action that implied frogster was 100% clear

there are too many investigatives here + i think the whole claim was suspicious around it

This is incorrect. I visited MalcolmTucker n1. He's vanilla. I did get a result n2.

[Titus]

@Titus - You got a result when the person you checked claims (if they haven’t already) please share your result.

That's the point.

My target has yet to claim.

[Titus]

Math, I don't trust you at all. You rammed though furtiveglance and now you're trying to tell me what to do. Not interested.

Why should I think you're town?

[Titus]

*eyeroll*

2 rolecops is suspect sure. Yet there's zero reason for scum Titus to cc Frog and then shoot him.

You saved Pooky from an elimination by yelling it down. Pooky's wagon was likely pure.

NM very very likely town bc vig.

Would have liked to see an Enchant vig on you frankly. When it failed, it would save the headache.

I have no desire to go through another screaming match to get an acceptable lim through.

I'll play my role my way. That means who I rolecopped gets zero hints about what they claim. This also forces the finish to mass claim so you don't spend 3000 posts yelling for it.

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus

If you don’t want to cooperate with the town block you can die. No need for mass claim.

You always come up with new ways for do what I want or die.

[Titus]

If my target doesn't come on today, I'm just going to vote them.

[Titus]

Giving any hint to who I checked helps scum. Not going to do it.

You want to talk reads, I am here for it. You want to tell me what to do? Fuck off.

[Titus]

yall pls malcolms scum

You got a result?

We're waiting for subs.

@Math, vowels do nothing. If you're town, you should reflect on your strategy. It's not good for cohesion.

I'm forcing everyone to be honest by not outing my target. My target is clearly sketchy and thus a valid target.

Let's talk about the Pooky wagon.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.7 !

Big Chungus Gaming (4):

KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo, Frogsterking

Save The Dragons (3):

Gamma Emerald, Charloux, Enchant

Frogsterking (3):

Greeting, Big Chungus Gaming, Save The Dragons

MalcolmTucker (1):

MariaR

Cape90 (1):

SirRhett

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

Enchant (1):

Cape90

not voting (2):

MalcolmTucker, Fennec

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• e

Let's look here first. Pooky's presence makes it less likely BCG is scum.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.8 !

Big Chungus Gaming (4):

KittyTacky, PookyTheMagicalBear, Toogeloo, Frogsterking

Save The Dragons (3):

Gamma Emerald, Charloux, Enchant

Frogsterking (3):

Greeting, Big Chungus Gaming, Save The Dragons

Enchant (2):

Cape90, furtiveglance

MalcolmTucker (1):

MariaR

Cape90 (1):

Titus

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

not voting (1):

MalcolmTucker

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• working up the vote count count

We have Frogsterking conftown, BCG likely town. What's the third wagon?

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 1.9 !

Greeting (4):

Frogsterking, Cape90, Titus, PookyTheMagicalBear

Big Chungus Gaming (3):

KittyTacky, Toogeloo, Greeting

MalcolmTucker (2):

Not_Mafia, furtiveglance

Save The Dragons (1):

MariaR

Frogsterking (1):

Save The Dragons

Enchant (1):

Big Chungus Gaming

Toogeloo (1):

marcistar

furtiveglance (1):

Enchant

not voting (1):

MalcolmTucker, Charloux

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to blow someone up. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-10-12 15:00:00)

modorator notes

• e

Greeting wagon takes off when StD wagon collapses. Confscum makes it the biggest wagon.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

vote count 2.6 !

PookyTheMagicalBear (5):

MariaR, Frogsterking, Big Chungus Gaming, Toogeloo, Titus

Titus (2):

Save The Dragons, Cape90

Big Chungus Gaming (2):

furtiveglance, PookyTheMagicalBear

furtiveglance (1):

marcistar

Frogsterking (1):

MathBlade

not voting (3):

Not_Mafia, MalcolmTucker, Enchant

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to blow someone up. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-23 14:51:54)

modorator notes

• ba ba ba

Spoiler:

d2 final!

furtiveglance (8):

marcistar, MathBlade, Toogeloo, MariaR, Cape90, Titus, Enchant, Frogsterking

PookyTheMagicalBear (1):

Big Chungus Gaming

Titus (1):

Save The Dragons

Toogeloo (1):

furtiveglance

Frogsterking (1):

PookyTheMagicalBear

not voting (2):

Not_Mafia, MalcolmTucker

with 14 alive, it took 8 to blow someone up.

Pooky has an uncontested wagon, minus StD and Cape. MariaR and I started the Pooky wagon (even though I am vote 5). Frogsterking flipped town. BCG is likely town. If any scum, toog.

On furtiveglance, we have only Toog and enchant as possible scum but scum have no interest in saving furtiveglance. StD is as expected off wagon.

StD should be the flip.

Malcolm being vanilla and making no effort to lead is also acceptable.

[Titus]

If any scum, toog.

I called Pooky scum before it was cool, and belittled Math's confidence in the Pooky wagon.

Try again.

There's the caveat (if any). I have maintained Pooky pure.

If I am not a rolecop, there's no reason to CC Frogsterking there.

You aren't willing to discuss reads because you don't have them.

If I had copped a known claim, you would argue that I faked it because the claim was out there.

You had a massive push for massclaim, which you conveniently don't want anymore.

You defended Pooky.
You pushed Frogsterking.

You are not playing protown.

[Titus]

Sorry from If... and beyond is at Math.

Math might be scum here.

[Titus]

No I still want it. Just after you prove you’re a role cop if you are. Not before.

There is no proving if my target tells the truth.

With me not telling vowels, everyone (not just my target) must be honest.

[Titus]

Yes, but only my target does. Anyone who doesn't match the vowels can fake. Outing vowels just tells my target alone to be honest.

[Titus]

Yes, but only my target does. Anyone who doesn't match the vowels can fake. Outing vowels just tells my target alone to be honest.

Anyone who isn’t your target can fake anyway.

They get outed by other invests.

Again I fail to see your point.

If they have doubt, they can't fake. They risk a CC (unless they match vowels with the fake). No one knows my target.