Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[Bell]

I am a cat.

[Bell]

No really.
I swear.
Cat’s honor.

[Bell]

I’m very confused as to how many factions there are and whether the dark forest cats are *the* scum team or *a* scum faction.

[Bell]

Catboi should be familiar enough with my typical opening posts to note that I always derp about set up early game and ask the most basic questions that are usually also “town slippy” but not actually sloppy and I actually don’t know the answer.

To me it looks like there is: the star clan which is town. The river clan which I’m apart of that may or may not consist of town( a neighborhood) and it tells me I need to kill the dark forest cats to win. But it doesn’t really tell me anything else, whether there are additional factions, whether the star clan and the river clan are the same etc.

So I’m asking for basic flavor information.
Is the river clan part of the star clan.
And if so why are they both clans which makes things confusing?

[Bell]

Catboi should be familiar enough with my typical opening posts to note that I always derp about set up early game and ask the most basic questions that are usually also “town slippy” but not actually sloppy and I actually don’t know the answer.

so are you sussing him?

Yes. But I don’t know if they’re playing it straight or just acting to pressure early game.
I think they know I’m smarter than to try to fake a town slip page 1 as scum, which makes their comment confusing as they could be intentionally dumbing themselves down. But sometimes I do that to push at someone. So.

[Bell]

It’s not clear to me.
The dark forest clan doesn’t have a faction color the last line implies that the protectors of the star clan win when the dark forest cats are dead. But it doesn’t seem clear that there are only 2 factions. Or only two win conditions. I don’t know whether the star clan is *all* of the town or only aligned to certain clans.

Which is why I asked for clarification because I do, in fact come out asking the obvious questions early.

*see, lost*

[Bell]

Basically I wasn’t sure if I had a separate win condition,
But bell, you ask, why the hell would you ask about that if you weren’t sure that could get you dead real fast if you aren’t aligned with the town.

*points at last paragraph* of previous post.
Anyway, it’s observable that I ask fundamental set up questions early. So I dismiss the scum slip and trying to town slip things. As neither is true.

I mean, even though I’m weak to the social stuff I really don’t think I’m that desperate to immediately just try to town slip and get cleared and that’s not really a strategy I’ve employed much as scum (though a long time ago I did do that).

[Bell]

I want to believe I would at least try to be more subtle about it.

[Bell]

bell you meantioned you derp on setups regularly as town

would you say you're self aware enough to fake this as scum potentially

Yeah. As either alignment I enjoy looping into terrible self-awareness. But I might not do it as much as scum because I’d be worried about being annoying.

[Bell]

VOTE: datisi?

[Bell]

I feel like datisi is scum this game.

[Bell]

What if I’m scum? Then technically, I’m right.

[Bell]

If i’m scum then calling you scum when you’re town would be the right thing to do.
Therefore I’m right if I’m scum.
But you said I was wrong which means that you know I’m town and you know that I’m wrong which only SCUM WOULD KNOW
Therefore I’m right.

I’m always right is what I’m getting at.

[Bell]

I’m going to case Datisi no matter what he posts I think.
That’s not very reasonable of me.

[Bell]

Penguin is here a lot more than I’m used to.

@fire, I dunno why agreeing with a take is townie. Well, it might be a good sign. In this case but I’ll wait.

Ceph’s being ceph, but I don’t want to harass them yet because I’m not annoyed with them yet.

I have an opinion on Val, but it’s basically what fire posted on Val.

Hmm? What’s that? Your posts seem like filler?
Shush.

[Bell]

I'm tunneled on Datisi and they haven't even posted since the last time.

SCRDB goes up a little. with one point of hesitation + unfamiliarity. Consider it an asterisk.

[Bell]

I dunno what your fixation is on clan stuff. But I just scum read Datisi because their approach aligns with what I think of as their scum game.
It honestly seems like you're failing to apply ockham's razor here and making an assumption based on flavor. It's a waste of glucose, but okay.

[Bell]

Er, I've probably confronted 2 or more people and been giving takes unrelated to Datisi, so I guess you're not paying attention because I don't really see what benefit you get from making stuff up that clearly doesn't fit what I'm actually doing.

[Bell]

Please don't want people to be an alignment.

[Bell]

@Marashu, UNACCEPTABLE! *lemon* Yeah, that's fine.

@Catboi, but it's embarrassing to give my opinions on people.
In general I tend to think Datisi is workman-scum. They think content+Activity = a shield.
And it's their go to shield. How they approached my poke and their generic statements this early felt like they were aligning with that approach.
I'd like to sit on it, but I just never can help myself.

[Bell]

The important part to them was getting in my face and saying I was wrong in an active manner, rather than seemingly anything else. Because they thought it would look the best.

Then again, my brain is broken

sometimes.

all of the times. Please don't listen to me. Now I'm remembering all of the times I suck and it's really discouraging. Even though, technically I've not misread Datisi yet, but when you think about it, that's like 3 times which isn't credible and also I was a lot more patient there.

[Bell]

I dunno what your fixation is on clan stuff. But I just scum read Datisi because their approach aligns with what I think of as their scum game.
It honestly seems like you're failing to apply ockham's razor here and making an assumption based on flavor. It's a waste of glucose, but okay.

Er, I've probably confronted 2 or more people and been giving takes unrelated to Datisi, so I guess you're not paying attention because I don't really see what benefit you get from making stuff up that clearly doesn't fit what I'm actually doing.

THIS IS THE ONLY VOTE I SEE IN YOUR ISO:

VOTE: datisi?

I'M NOT SEEING VERY MUCH IN THE WAY OF WORDS WITHIN YOUR ISO WHICH I CAN CHARACTERIZE AS CONFRONTATIONAL OTHER THAN YOUR PUSH ON DATISI. IN FACT, I WOULD DESCRIBE YOUR ISO AS QUITE PENSIVE BOTH IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PLAYERS AND TO YOUR OWN TOWN META. IS THERE ANYTHING YOU DISAGREE WITH ABOUT MY STATEMENT?

I dunno why you think me having only voted one person is evidence that I'm not confrontational. Heck, I usually don't vote much.
Yes, I disagree with your opinion about my town meta. I know my town meta best afterall and I'm genuinely unsure where you got the idea I'm more pensive this game than all the other games in which I've been pensive. Because I'm *really* pensive. And then I'm not.
I don't even think my push on datisi is confrontational, but I'd argue in terms of potentially stepping on toes Catboi and Datisi would be two.

[Bell]

Go to class.
*pokes*

I can't concisely articulate a rebuttal to your argument that every post you make *has* to be toward producing content. Because I didn't say that.
I just think you treat the game more like a chore as scum than as town and your posts reflect that in how you use your ideology.
I would hope you couldn't disagree with the characterization given that's how you described it yourself in a scum PT or two.

[Bell]

Gut, obviously.

[Bell]

It's Charloux.

Are you scum? You have to tell me if you’re scum. It’s the law.

[Bell]

It's Charloux.

Are you scum?

I'm town.

*squints*
I believe you and I have no idea why.

[Bell]

I don’t have a scum PT to share this with my
Pals, but fire says he thinks marashu and catboi are scum buddies.
You heard it here second.

[Bell]

I think I moderately agree with S_S on charloux. I missed that post. Sometimes people commit to a role early, but I don’t know them well enough to know if they’d do that so I think it’s probably okay just to give it a generic thumbs up.

I dunno what to say to the town core thing. Unless we use entirely different definitions of town cores the k my one I’d even consider would be Mastina at this point and that’s just a default.

I don’t know your history with these players to know if the people you’re town reading are the people you tend to clash with but I’m moderately surprised that you clash with marashu or that they clash much at all.

[Bell]

Hah, bear didn’t know there were confirmed no third parties.
Learn to read. (*naturally I didn’t know this either*)

? Chat about all of them. Why do you think each is town? Rational and irrational reasons are fine.

I do think we have different definitions of town cores because I tend to think of town cores as players that you are reasonably confident are town. Which I don’t think you reasonably could be at this point.

[Bell]

Hi I am a mason.

Why must people who claim mason in their first post get mason roles instead of me. The world is so unfair.

Cephism spotted.
+1 to Bell’s irritation.

[Bell]

No, I’m not referring to an absence of doubt and paranoia.
I mean their posts look like homework. They’re trying to hit what they need to complete the assignment and not a single carbohydrate more.

[Bell]

I don’t have an issue with the post if only because I do the same thing as town all the time.

[Bell]

I’m starting to wonder if it’s possible to develop a read on penguin early.

[Bell]

*shrug*
I believe their explanation and think their wagon is bad and we need a new, shinier wagon with hotrod paint.

[Bell]

They are an incredibly strange bear tho.
Come back when you see something scummy or townie.

[Bell]

Misty: Your standards for what you think is relevant is too high if you think there is one total player with alignment indicative posts so far. I’m not here to coach. But you’re going to be dead soon if you don’t alter course.

I consider gimmicks to come from strange people.@Bear.

[Bell]

Ugh, I need to do a crib sheet as to who is in what PT but I don't want to do paperwork.

How does this benefit town?

@Bear lol.

Norwe is Norwe, it’s okay to avoid it and such but the times they’ll be available and not emotional about something is shorter than the times that they are.

[Bell]

VOTE: Mistyx

*stares gently at Datisi*
I’m not sorry.

[Bell]

*shrug* I’m bored.
I’d like to move my vote because there are people to poke and I can’t poke you forever.
I mean, I could poke you forever but I’m not confident.

[Bell]

Don’t worry though Datisi, you still mean the world to me. I’m sure eventually I’ll push for your elimination just because I know myself enough to know that it’s inevitable that I shall confirmation bias myself. I will sing you gently to your rest and you won’t even hate me for it.

[Bell]

@Mastina: are you a mason?

[Bell]

VOTE: Mastina

[Bell]

Oh. I’m fine killing norwe if mastina is 97.5% certain they’re scum.
VOTE: Norwe

[Bell]

Something feels wrong.

[Bell]

Oh. I’m fine killing norwe if mastina is 97.5% certain they’re scum.
VOTE: Norwe

why does this feel sarcastic im confused

Either outcome is funny. *signed up*

Every game lately is like this. I try play in a way that makes me have fun and also can solve at the same time. But i always end up feeling annoyed. I didn’t even really want to sign up to this in the first place. But now i’m here and just as expected i’m first wagon. All i can do is grit my teeth and bear it. I don’t even know why i manage to continue despite feeling miserable. It’s some kind of strange stubborness that never let’s up.

Are you town or scum.

[Bell]

Why so?

I'm here and paying attention, just trying to formulate an opinion based on the posts made.
While waiting for more from certain low post players.
Consider my Datisi read slightly blunted.
I can't really read Alisae.
I can't read Titus. They've kind of been like this since the last 3-5 games I've played with them. Where the activity and content is so erratic and sort of unrelated to anything that I can't make sense of what their actual trajectory is.

I'm still sitting on Norwe, because I don't think that me feeling bad if they get eliminated early if they're town is an actual reason not to kill them. It's frustrating tho.

[Bell]

Shiro
Shidaji
KittyTacky.

More posts please and thank you.

[Bell]

I don’t understand Alisse well, but currently. I’m neutral to lean town on them, I think.
Their engagement style conflicts with what I think scum would do. But I can’t quite articulate why.

[Bell]

I really don’t agree with person rewrites posts a few times and decides to be concise and is therefore scum.
I would have accepted Bell wasn’t posting with an internal timer which led to the change. But the reasoning just doesn’t reach the truth in this case.

[Bell]

I’m talking about me and cephrir and Fire’s interpretation of some of my posts.

[Bell]

I just iso’d all of Marashu’s posts and they look fine except for one aspect that is off but it has been a year since they played. They used to be more in-depth with their analysis, where here they refer to thinking rather than actually thinking out loud. But it’s early.

[Bell]

I don’t understand Alisse well, but currently. I’m neutral to lean town on them, I think.
Their engagement style conflicts with what I think scum would do. But I can’t quite articulate why.

I am going to have to ask you to move your vote that is currently on Norwee. If you trust mastina's 97.5% read on Norwee, then you should be trusting me 100% tr on Norwee as the player who is probably the best player at the table at reading him, ESPECIALLY because I have a hood with him.

I don’t trust either of you tho.

[Bell]

I may lose my shit if you claim that you’re masons Alisae. It was fun when I was scum watching Pooky work magic.
But not so much when I’m town this time.

@Cephrir, no my style is pretty much the same. I just had a normal process of cutting out extraneous stuff for one post. Sometimes my posts go short. I dunno why people are saying my reasoning is artificial this game when I’m just posting normally for me. The only difference really is that I’ve been posting at work.

[Bell]

@FrozenAngel: why aren’t you scum this game?

[Bell]

I don’t understand Alisse well, but currently. I’m neutral to lean town on them, I think.
Their engagement style conflicts with what I think scum would do. But I can’t quite articulate why.

I am going to have to ask you to move your vote that is currently on Norwee. If you trust mastina's 97.5% read on Norwee, then you should be trusting me 100% tr on Norwee as the player who is probably the best player at the table at reading him, ESPECIALLY because I have a hood with him.

I don’t trust either of you tho.

but we trust mastina because?????????

I meant, I trust neither you nor Mastina. I dn't have to trust someone to vote with them.
Infact I almost never vote with someone because I trust them.

[Bell]

Because I'm fine shutting down towering arrogance by giving someone what they want only to watch them destroy their own credibility. Or they hit scum and hey, win con. Woo. I can always change my vote, might as well see where it goes.
Norwe isn't doing anything in thread and I genuinely don't give a shit if they're writing a magnum opus in your clan chat. Do you have any idea how many player have bet their first born on their neighbor being town because, for real you guys they're being awesome in there trust me?
(3, which isn't a lot, but like, it isn't good enough for me).
Val stepping in makes me hesitate only a tiny bit because 3 is a crowd. But still, it just sounds like it's an emotional party back there and I don't walk in the emotional circle.
Give me a reason not to vote them that isn't just telling me to trust you. I don't even disagree with Val's opinion that you may just be informed and using this to stock up your own credibility for the inevitable backlash, which may never come since there isn't even immense interest in Norwe, or else there'd be more votes by now.

[Bell]

Oh. I’m fine killing norwe if mastina is 97.5% certain they’re scum.
VOTE: Norwe

I meant, I trust neither you nor Mastina. I dn't have to trust someone to vote with them.
Infact I almost never vote with someone because I trust them.

Lmaowhat.

It's called sarcasm.

[Bell]

.........
Let's break down the sentences.

1. I'm fine shutting down Mastina's ego if they're town and wrong. Nobody should be 97.5% confident in a read day one. AND ABSOLUTELY NOBODY SHOULD BE 100% CONFIDENT IN A READ DAY 1 Unless they have mod information. Which I won't entertain given who I'm speaking to.
2. If they're right my win condition is advanced and I'll be happy with that.

Am I leaving out that you're the best player at the table at reading Norwe? Yes. Yes I'm going to ignore that claim because there are a lot of issues I have with it. Such as:
1. You could be wrong.

[Bell]

Because I'm fine shutting down towering arrogance by giving someone what they want only to watch them destroy their own credibility.

can you show me an example of a game where town-you was acting like this?

The last game I was in! Lost.

[Bell]

....I'd like to see a scum game where I was acting like this. *tilts head* this seems like a throw away question.
But yes I've recently dealt with a similar if opposite scenario and I did get a little triggered because I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to convince Nancy that, in fact, they could be wrong about a player being town.

[Bell]

.........
Let's break down the sentences.

1. I'm fine shutting down Mastina's ego if they're town and wrong. Nobody should be 97.5% confident in a read day one. AND ABSOLUTELY NOBODY SHOULD BE 100% CONFIDENT IN A READ DAY 1 Unless they have mod information. Which I won't entertain given who I'm speaking to.
2. If they're right my win condition is advanced and I'll be happy with that.

Am I leaving out that you're the best player at the table at reading Norwe? Yes. Yes I'm going to ignore that claim because there are a lot of issues I have with it. Such as:
1. You could be wrong.

Do you believe Mastina can only be town and wrong or town and right and not possible scum here?

They claimed mason.

[Bell]

Hi I am a mason.

@Mastina: are you a mason?

Obviously.

[Bell]

I'm semi-inclined to town read Mastina anyway because they aren't making excuses for why they aren't posting or having a breakdown even though I know it's old data and I think they got over it.
Though their reads are a tad weird. I'd get into it, but if I did then Mastina and I would get in a back and forth about Mastina.
Nobody wants that except Mastina.

[Bell]

1. I'm fine shutting down Mastina's ego if they're town and wrong. Nobody should be 97.5% confident in a read day one. AND ABSOLUTELY NOBODY SHOULD BE 100% CONFIDENT IN A READ DAY 1 Unless they have mod information. Which I won't entertain given who I'm speaking to.

ksahjrfp
ok'asl;dhgl;sfhg

YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO DO THAT TO SHUT DOWN THEIR EGO YOU CAN JUST NOT ENGAGE.
IT WOULDN'T EVEN SHUT DOWN HER EGO IN THE FIRST PLACE SHE WOULD JUST KEEP DOING IT.

Like why are we engaging with it???

Am I leaving out that you're the best player at the table at reading Norwe? Yes. Yes I'm going to ignore that claim because there are a lot of issues I have with it. Such as:
1. You could be wrong.

But mastina could be right because she's pushing someone as scum! Even though Ali is mathematically more likely to be correct, Ali could be wrong!

Like, technically anyone could be wrong about fucking anything but that didn't stop you from giving it credibility.
Pretty sick joke of being sarcastic and attaching a vote to it.
Like how do you expect people to read 583???

1. You're right you know. Failure does not dissuade them from making statements like that. I disagree that I gave it credibility beyond being mildly annoyed at Norwe for AtEing. The only wagon I tried to give credibility to is Datisi.
2. Yes. Everybody could be wrong and it's not even technically. It's just the way it is, so stop throwing around 100% certainty and 97.5% certainty and stop asking people to trust you. It's insane.

[Bell]

1. Because I was being sarcastic and kind of not. Because I don't know if they're right or not. So it's not *entirely* fair of me to dismiss their suspicion. If that makes sense.
2. I was in a neighborhood with a player named Taly. I explained that I suspected them and thought, while emphasizing that I wasn't sure, that they were scum, Pooky asked everyone who they suspected and made a little consensus poll. Taly was the most suspected player.
Cephrir gladiated Taly. Nancydrew, Pooky, and ProfessorDrapion disagreed with the read and proceeded to hard defend Taly. No matter how much we argued it seemed like the only options they would accept was to either eliminate Cephrir or do a no elimination. They were *that* confident that Taly was town.
Taly wasn't town. You had to be there. Anyway it kind of turned me off to Alisae's approach here and I've never responded well to a player's AtE(Norwe). So that's it in a nut shell.

My town reads right now are me, Mastina, maybe Scredbear. I'm trying to remember if anyone has done anything particularly townie and I'm sort of blanking. *shrug*

[Bell]

What do you think about Alisae and Norwe doing a bunch of gotchas on me.? I could see why they'd push against me given they don't like my position, but at the same time it's weird for people that have played for years to attack my grammar or my lack of engaging all scenarios, especially given their own lack of engagement in it.
I'm perfectly capable of using may or hedging, in fact I usually do, I just couldn't be assed to change my wording to reflect my total ignorance of who is and isn't scum.

[Bell]

That's true but in this case this game is full of people that are good at being scum, people I suck at reading (titus) or that I'm not personally familiar with. I'm just extending my tendrils right now until I eventually (hopefully) begin engaging with everyone and getting a feel for them.

In terms of Mastina...It's complicated.
It's a combination of temptation in the absurdity of accepting someone at face value because it might piss the scum team off, their posts being decent for them and seemingly absent of their struggles with being scum (that I would like to note is no longer valid according to them) and just because.

[Bell]

I'll admit to being a bit of a troll(cat).
I also, don't really care if people understand me. I'm not super collaborative when solving.

[Bell]

Unless I think I'm in danger of getting eliminated.
Then I care a lot.
But still not really collaborative when solving.

These posts I'm making are kind of a hint of my alignment this game tbh.

[Bell]

No, I just don't see a reason to unvote them.
and I don't see anyone better to vote currently.
Datisi is kind of already dead to me.

There are a lot of other players I'd like to explore though,

off the top of my head, I want better reads on you, Cephrir, Catboi, Marashu, Shirou, whoever replaces Shidaji.
But I can't quite articulate the questions yet. Flag, plain spoken, intentional navel gazing into process, busy cookies, 0 posts.

[Bell]

I dunno why I forgot to add Dann in there, but sort of has the tone right, but coming off as an echo.

[Bell]

No matter how much we argued it seemed like the only options they would accept was to either eliminate Cephrir or do a no elimination. They were *that* confident that Taly was town.
Taly wasn't town. You had to be there. Anyway it kind of turned me off to Alisae's approach here and I've never responded well to a player's AtE(Norwe). So that's it in a nut shell.

actually i still don't really get this bc looking at the timeline of things, you voted norwee based off mastina's confidence there and that was well before alisae started saying that they 100% tr norwee. they call norwee towny in 279, but say they're still sorting him, and their first like really confident statement of norwee town is 602. but you voted norwee before that, in 583

so it wasn't about you being turned off by alisae's approach, it was about mastina

so why would this context make you MORE inclined to encourage the approach that you found frustrating in the previous game by following someone expressing a 97.5% confidence read?

the way you explain it here it sounds like you're saying you don't want to give alisae's read the requested weight but like mastina is doing exactly the same thing from the other direction

Is it really that hard to understand that I voted Norwe first because it’s RVS and I’m happy to explore where a wagon might lead on a small TR on slot that hadn’t done much and stayed there because the best defense I’ve seen is “trust me you guys, they’re super town in the neighborhood?”
You keep saying you think you get it but then you loop back right into not knowing. Ask some clarification questions instead of looping. Into a deeper and deeper series of doubt that themselves don’t make sense because it almost seems like you can’t understand how time works. \: or something?

Mmmm at Dannflor.
@Shiro grats.

[Bell]

Not really seeing what Dan is saying.
Didn’t datisi get accused by multiple players of being on defensive and not digging back
And he just outsourced any reads on me to others and just said he didn’t like my recent posts. Which makes sense since I said he was already dead to me.

[Bell]

I’m cognizant that Norwe has done stuff since then, but I’m not sure that “won’t accept player’s reason for voting them because they have zero reason to do so as either alignment” is particularly AI.

[Bell]

i didn't understand then what me already being dead to you meant and i don't understand it now either

it's just about your treatment of mastina and norwee mostly (and the fact you don't seem that interested in doing anything but anyway)

If people keep bothering me and asking me questions about it what exactly do you expect me to do?
I’m also side remarking and clearly paying attention to other people’s arguments.

It just means I’ve already made up my mind based on what I’ve seen from you and think you belong in the null-scum pile and will probably get voted out or shot in the next few game days if there’s a vig.
Naturally I haven’t actually made up my mind, there’s plenty of ways I could be misreading you. But overall. Yeah. Scum lean. But I’m happy to let you live for a day or two while I explore other folk. There’s no rush.

[Bell]

people asking you questions about it doesn't stop you from doing other things, but y'know

i think you'll be dying before me this game, unless scum decides to get rid of me early

I am doing other things. See, my response to dann, my question to angel, the people I’d like to see more from aside to fire, my engagement with you just now etcetc. Just cause you say something doesn’t make it real. You did say ironically you’d outsource your read of me to others so it makes sense you wouldn’t read my posts and then accuse me of not posting anything outside of talking to norwe.

As for dying first. Eh. Maybe. I rarely get miseliminated as town.

[Bell]

Is it really that hard to understand that I voted Norwe first because it’s RVS and I’m happy to explore where a wagon might lead on a small TR on slot that hadn’t done much and stayed there because the best defense I’ve seen is “trust me you guys, they’re super town in the neighborhood?”
You keep saying you think you get it but then you loop back right into not knowing. Ask some clarification questions instead of looping. Into a deeper and deeper series of doubt that themselves don’t make sense because it almost seems like you can’t understand how time works. \: or something?

yes it very much is? bc it wasn't rvs? it was on page 24 how is that rvs? and you've kept your vote there the entire time, so if the vote was bc you're happy to explore wagons then why not ever explore other wagons? this is starting to feel like weird excuses to not actually do any normal town behavior like hunt scum or vote for the people you think are scum

and you are responding to a quote in which i did ask clarifying questions so... yea that's what im doing. i don't get the tone here. what do you even mean that i don't understand how time works?

i never said that i get why you're doing this. i specifically said multiple times that it is really weird and doesn't make sense to me. all ive said is that now you're at least showing your thought process and i feel like i can see that thought process even though i don't really think the thought process makes sense (and tbh kind of feels fake and made up after the fact to justify your behavior considering there are unexplained holes in it)

like in that post i specifically asked you to clarify what you meant by justifying your vote as a reaction to alisae's approach to norwee, when your vote was before they took that approach. and you ignored the question. and then made up another justification that doesn't make sense (rvs??). and then said that i should be asking more clarifying questions to understand you. like what

I explicitly stated that I voted Norwe because they weren’t doing much so I had little no objection to voting them when Mastina voted them and I am slightly town leaning and then didn’t unvote them when I faced resistance because the arguments made in their defense were bad.

That’s pretty much all I have to say about this.

[Bell]

I’m one of the easiest sorts in the world.
And you either didn’t manage it or you’re scum fire.

[Bell]

It doesn’t particularly matter though I sort myself in time.
I always do. I don’t this is going to be one of those games where I can’t find much to say.

[Bell]

Well, what was your conclusion S_S do you think Alisae is town this game? And which posts do you think point that way?

[Bell]

I don't really agree with Danfloor that they need a solid scum read to approach the game as they do. Though maybe they're more subtle about it but I can think of a few instances where they felt slightly more natural as town then they've been here.
I was largely mollified once they got back and walled but it looks like Catboi actualy read through them and tried to see the motivation there.
I don't think "contribution" or "tactical posting" is exactly hitting it for me, simply because yeah we could all be supporting the game better than we inevitably end up doing. Dann was on my radar then he got off of it. It's noted though.

I think the confidence Catboi is showing is appropriate to their post about Dann, I.e., they feel that of the players available they think it's the surest bet but it's Day 1 and so it's not actually a very sure bet, so I can see where their placement is and it doesn't make a total lack of sense to me. I do think they've been a bit more clear than I'm used to, but it's not terribly clear why that is, but I tend to think their catboi is a different playstyle and I dunno if they do it purposely or I just don't understand it but I think it slightly controls for the approach.

It has occurred to me that Alisae hasn't played in a full year and their approach this game doesn't really reflect that at all, which is pretty confusing to me. They're confident they can read Norwe better than anyone else, but Norwe has been playing an additional year of mafia while they haven't. It doesn't make sense to me, but I actually don't think it's scummy. Just weird. I'm not sure how much I should be taking of their previous play from the last year, but it reminds me more of their town play if anything, given their conviction being stronger as town (up to fake claiming masons with somebody), I see what people are suspecting about informed Alisae going all in for cred, but I'm not sure that it's in character for Alisae to do that, I don't really have enough data.

Frozen Angel, I'm just genuinely confused about, they feel very cookie cutter, it's focused, there's nothing especially wrong with it, but I don't see creativity or spontaneity in it yet. This kind of read I always tend to be wrong on and a spade is simply a spade but flag waving is always a little odd to me.

@T3, hello fellow Cat. I'm a cat.

[Bell]

Mine. I'm paying close attention.

[Bell]

My advisory panel says that because Dannflor's posts weren't spontaneous I shouldn't be persuaded by them.

If you want my metadar, which does not and has not ever worked.
I'd say I'd think Danflorr is a bit more aggro and isn't actually the type to get lost in the weeds, I actually tend to think they're at their best when they're just going from person to person busting their chops for existing with a mystery about. I'm not really used to their friendly overtures, their positioning or their hedgy statements. But I'm not super confident in being able to read Danflorr. Which I will say about everyone btw. Because I'm just not super confident.

[Bell]

i do think it odd that I think the last game I played with them I was scum and I tend to think players that have recently caught me (not a hard thing to do) here they're not really...
conf biasing or engaging with me when they should have some sort of confidence boost. On the other hand, that was fucking forever ago.
It just makes me think they're not terribly interested because they've made decisions already. Or maybe it's just the context and they chose to go for a lighter touch.
Don't really get it.

[Bell]

It really isn't

[Bell]

I dunno why you wouldn't want a slam dunk early tho if you thought it made sense for me to be scum this game. Maybe I just think of you as a more committed character, but while I tend to go for the lowest activity players first due to just admitting that I can be wrong and there's not much point killing off the players that hypothetically could be readable later, I didn't really think you were the type. I also don't really know why you'd just sit on the side lines when your previous approach to busting my chops worked out well. Why change what isn't broken?

@Alisae, lmk when I reach obvtown status.

[Bell]

It's actually not weird from my perspective.
I dunno if Datisi ever reads my notes, but I kind of always do the same thing with them and I say as much every game.
I try to demoralize him because he says he has imposter syndrome when they're scum and then I just see if they breakdown or not. I also haven't misread them in a game so far, though I know they disagree with that and blame it largely on activity/circumstances for getting caught (also, just for me, please, please, please overlook it. Just because I've gotten lucky and been on the right side of history 3-4 times does not make me good at reading them, the same applies to Cephrir).
Though, I also just tend to tunnel off of first impressions. It's not a good trait, except when I'm right which is not often.

[Bell]

@Alisae, lmk when I reach obvtown status.

you are far from obvtown and if you were obvtown I wouldn't have to read you myself...

I said let me know when I reach obvious town status. Not that I've reached obvious town status.

[Bell]

I don't really understand why we are voting mastina up for what is essentially standard mastina. The only scummy thing she has done is not deathtunnel me for existing.

I dunno what to make of a wall post that is basically “I’m not scum because of my activity, it’s just RL stuff this isn’t happening” it’s a borderline post that looks like it’s more about their reputation and it only really makes sense from the perspective that, unfortunately while they were super busy they also happened to be scum. Don’t make waves about it or give me shit later you guys.

[Bell]

Like, I won’t give you shit about it, Mastina.
But I don’t see why they’d make that post as town.

On the other hand.
It’s Mastina.

[Bell]

You should vote datisi, Bell.

I may or may not have read only this page.
Why?

[Bell]

I’m considering Mastina RN and whether I should be hell tunneling them for a post that only makes sense to me from a scum perspective.

Give me a minute.

[Bell]

You should vote datisi, Bell.

*sniffs*
What is this penguin up to? I don’t remember them ever engaging with me before I engaged with them.
Why are you prompting me this way?
Why now?
I get why me.
But why you?

[Bell]

Nono, I get that you're voting them and you find the bear's case persuasive.
But I only ever remember you advocating for penguins.
Not wagons.

[Bell]

VOTE: Datisi

*FOS Mastina*

Nevermind. It fits. Nothing to be paranoid about there.

[Bell]

I have a question for Bell.

@Bell
How good are you at scum and do you think you could fool most town players in this room by pocketing and such?

I'm bad at it. Probably not.
I can trick people with a confidence game in the short term.
But my long term game sucks.

[Bell]

She started posting to people in real time instead of catching up and she still insists on pushing this Ali + Norwee scum narrative that's just not fucking real man

It's actually a scum tell in their own words.

[Bell]

Not right now.
I have a bad case of the dithering.

[Bell]

Quick question for the crowd. We're on page 57.

Does anyone want to do the focus group thing where we all check whose reading who as scum?
It's been...(but not significantly) accurate.
The one where you just list the names and say town or scum.

[Bell]

Not it.

[Bell]

My neutral read on Norwe is dead. Long live a town lean.

[Bell]

But this is mine.

Also. Still would like that poll if anyone is up to it.
I think it would help.

[Bell]

Please share with the class.
This may surprise you but you replaced into a slot so we do in fact need material for town to sort you.
Thank you~

[Bell]

ALIVE

Alisae: scum
catboi: town
Charloux: town
Datisi: scum
NorwegianboyEE:town
Bell: scum
KittyTacky: town
Dannflor:town
Mistyx: scum
SCRRRDBEAR: town
Titus: town
fireisredsir: town
mastina: scum
Frozen Angel: town
Cephrir: town
Marashu: Scum
Shiro: scum
Something_Smart: scum
Val89: town
Shiidaji: scum
PenguinPower:town

DEAD

EVENTS

[Bell]

^ when doing the above just go through each name and sort by the first alignment that pops into your head.
I’ll give you plus one bully points and think less of you if you write clown as an alignment.

[Bell]

Happy scumday

[Bell]

More data for the data gods.
Don’t dodge the reads list exercise. Please and thank you.

[Bell]

I dunno. Why should I play with derrick at the playground he’s mean and smelly.

Also, I would consider this a mastima meltdown.
She’s dark red in my reads list now.
Sorry if wrong/misread you.

[Bell]

VOTE: T3

Sure.

[Bell]

Mistyx, I forgot what I wrote for their alignment. Feels slightly more town now. Because their perspective feels unique.

[Bell]

It’s true though.
I’m scum this game.

[Bell]

I find it strange that Bell indicated themselves as scum in their reaction-list.

I'm suspicious of how genuine Cephrir's list is

Why?

VOTE: T3

I get people marking Shiro and I as scum/scum, with them marking us as town/town, and with them marking Shiro scum and myself as town, but marking Shiro as town and me as scum doesn't make any sense to me unless you think she's either lying or wrong.

Consider me mildly impressed if this came from scum.

[Bell]

Waiting on a few stragglers for that list.

@Penguin: Is it wrong tho?

[Bell]

Okay,
so
I'll be real here.

My meta on Mastina is basically:
Will Mastina have a meltdown?
Y: Scum.
N: Town.

They had a meltdown.

I'm fine with this. For the day.
VOTE: Mastina

Ah, I see what you're saying for plot reasons one kitty leaves the clan/is evil.
While Titus is the good rogue kitty that comes in to shore up the clan that had a loss/betrayal.
Makes sense from a plot point perspective.

...I forgot what Ydra said about this. *shrug* I'm sure someone will dig it up.

[Bell]

Don't see much reason to wait 3 days to see if they have another meltdown. I just wait for the one. Contrary evidence doesn't really erase the past here.

@RE: cephrir's reasoning from way back when for leaving mastina be.

[Bell]

We of the river clan* have reached a consensus.
Vote Mastina.

*it’s the royal we.

[Bell]

I'm semi-inclined to town read Mastina anyway because they aren't making excuses for why they aren't posting or having a breakdown even though I know it's old data and I think they got over it.
Though their reads are a tad weird. I'd get into it, but if I did then Mastina and I would get in a back and forth about Mastina.
Nobody wants that except Mastina.

See: opportunism.

[Bell]

I’m confused why people don’t realize at least half of my posts are sarcastic or obfuscated intentionally or jokes.

For example the royal we joke with the asterisk was a dig at Alissae for saying the wind clan was behind a T3 vote when it was just Alissae and Norwe with a half-hearted Titus barely involved.

It’s not funny when I have to explain it.
I clearly have a thought process and I get that like 4 people have called me weird or confusing. But that’s not scummy and it’s relatively normal for me to be unclear or fail to specify who I’m addressing etc etc.

[Bell]

That hurts
I am perfectly capable of pocketing someone for about a half hour.

[Bell]

That’s a trajectory fail Angel.
Attention was slightly moving away from Mastina/people were digesting the T3 thing.
I thought about it and decided that I’d seen enough from Mastina to act on it.
I could be wrong. But I telegraphed it and they tripped it anyway. There’s a reason people have meta on Mastina related to this and it’s largely because they have issues with flexibility.
Literally said it in thread and they did it anyway.

[Bell]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

[Bell]

I’ve posted that particular opinion about Mastina in multiple games even Mastina won’t deny that I’ve done so or that I’ve voted them before for similar stuff in similar games. If they do they’re going to be scum claiming.
This argument is dead on arrival.

[Bell]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

Well I'm just trying to understand how you connect the dots in your head to make the conclusions you made if I'm interpreting your moves wrong or are describing them wrong help me see your intentions and where you were coming from.

so take your time but I wanna know what that meta read is based on

Are you asking me to tell you what I’ve already said in thread.
If you want links look for them yourself. I’m not worried about being caught I a lie, because it’s true regardless of my alignment. I have no incentive to pretend this isn’t a dud and a wasted use of your time to explore. Regardless of your alignment this game.

[Bell]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

Well I'm just trying to understand how you connect the dots in your head to make the conclusions you made if I'm interpreting your moves wrong or are describing them wrong help me see your intentions and where you were coming from.

so take your time but I wanna know what that meta read is based on

Are you asking me to tell you what I’ve already said in thread.
If you want links look for them yourself. I’m not worried about being caught I a lie, because it’s true regardless of my alignment. I have no incentive to pretend this isn’t a dud and a wasted use of your time to explore. Regardless of your alignment this game.

I want to know why you think "when mastina has a melt down she is scum"

I don't have time to check all her games and all your games to investigate if you truly believe that or not. it was your claim so burden of its proof is on you?

I don’t need your vote, so I’m okay with not putting in the effort to dig up evidence of my own statements.
I know my reasoning is consistent and that there’s evidence of it I don’t need you to know that.

[Bell]

Uh, I think a shorter more clear sentence is that:
I know there is evidence of my statements in previous games and I can get this information whenever I like.
Therefore, I don’t need to bother until it becomes an issue.

My reasoning is what it is.
It would be cool if they flipped red this game and the meta read was correct.
But I could be wrong I haven’t claimed it’s 100% or anything just that I think Mastina is more likely than not scum this game based on my observances of them in this game based on previous behaviors in previous games.

As mentioned though, I think Mastina lacks a certain amount of flexibility it’s a wall they have trouble getting over and they’ve spoken about it at length in other games. Something I also won’t bother to source because I don’t wanna and I don’t gotta.

[Bell]

I’ll be the first to admit that my townie play style is designed as it is because I dislike being voted.
On the other hand this is one of the rare moments where Mastina is either going to walk up and correct you
Or scum claim by not doing that and I’m fine with either.

[Bell]

I’m also happy with a Mason claim.

[Bell]

Martina in my games has either hinted at or claimed their actual role early.
But I don’t recall them ever claiming masons.
Fire said that Mastina claims Mason in the beginning of games when they’re in a neighborhood.
I dunno.
I was kind of messing around anyway by taking Mastina at face value just to see if any scum would get pissed off at me taking them at face value if they were actually town. I do this sometimes.

[Bell]

Yes, absolutely no one is saying they shouldn’t be given time to claim their role.

[Bell]

That was time limited and already expired.

[Bell]

And was specifically related to T3.
Or maybe I’m not reading.
Either or.

[Bell]

Oh.

Well, I’m in camp: please always claim.

Because sometimes really stupid stuff happens when they aren’t given the opportunity.

[Bell]

Maybe if vanity votes realized the timeline and actually were productive with their vote but….

Not following what you mean here.
Mastina has not come back.
Mastina has not claimed.

Game is naturally going to stall until they come by and their wagon only became a thing one day ago.

[Bell]

I wanna chat but I'm too tired from the grind to think about a topic to chat about.

[Bell]

Imagine a mix tape of children asking on endless repeat for: Water, bathroom, icepacks, band-aids, or if they can just stay in the health office for 5 more minutes PLEASE, PLEASE.

You have captured 80% of my day.

[Bell]

Bell do u like anime

Of course I like anime.
I am watching chainsaw man as it's slowly released. but nothing else right now.
It's been fun to watch. I don't think this season we're going to be introduced to hell though and that makes me sad.

[Bell]

I'm not annoyed with Mastina.

[Bell]

I also watched the first few episodes and liked it and then wondered off due to release schedule/distraction.

[Bell]

Are you talking about Datisi's cafe? Because I don't really think Mastina has played here how they played there.

[Bell]

They seemed more self-assured and stood their ground but in a manner that is different than how they approached Alisae and Norwe here. It felt more solid.

Kind of like the difference between a sturdy stone being hit by a wave and a cat being hit by lightning. I'm speaking nonsense.
You're welcome.

[Bell]

Good, we’re about to miseliminate Mastina, just as planned.

[Bell]

MINE

[Bell]

Mastina has already claimed in the hood btw.

What is their claim?

[Bell]

Did Mastina claim in thread yet.

[Bell]

If I had multiple votes they'd all be on Mastina for not playing the game.
They've written wiki articles about this.
There's no excuse.

[Bell]

Just claim for her jesus.

[Bell]

What bet did you lose?

[Bell]

K.
Emotional response over.
Maybe.
Gunna think about it.

[Bell]

My initial impression is presumptive so
I need to reevaluate it.

Initial thought is assuming Mastina is scum because they know refusing to claim is anti-town. I’m aware people aren’t rational. But.
I think They’re delaying their own elimination for an advantage of some kind.
I think Mastina would reevaluate their read of Norwe here if they were town.

That’s kind of it. But I’ll think on it more.

[Bell]

Yes.

[Bell]

Cool. I think that role suits Mastina and will be useful if they’re town even when dead if it works post death.
This does not change my mind on their alignment this game.
Sorry if wrong Mastina.

[Bell]

Was it shiro and marashu that claimed town?

I forgot. I’m probably going to tunnel on Shiro next game day if they aren’t cleared by a claim or something.
I forgot who was involved.

[Bell]

Still though. Kill Mastina.
Please and thank you.
Sorry for harping on about it.

[Bell]

Was it shiro and marashu that claimed town?

Didn't claim town...just that Shiro had info on Marashu that made Marashu not a good yeet.

I am gonna come out and say that I have information about Marashu, we should not yeet them.

Noted thank you.

[Bell]

E-2.

[Bell]

Don't think it's to our benefit to risk having the day end too early if someone fasthammers.

What exactly do you think we're risking here?

[Bell]

Information security is dead.
Long live informational security.

[Bell]

I got nowhere over night btw. Just talked in circles with myself.

FA did call me scum though. They decided that their point wasn't invalid about me accusing Mastina of being scumstina because of meta and that it was opportunistic.
And now they're dead.
Coincidence? *hides smoking gun*
Maybe!

[Bell]

Hello Brother Bell

Hello Alisae. How'd it go overnight?
I didn't really change my mind on Norwe btw.

[Bell]

I mean, it's not like they have the guilt of leading a miselimination on somebody.
I'd have slept through the night phase right with them if I didn't feel bad about it.

[Bell]

I didn't really change my mind on Norwe btw.

Wanna talk about it?

I still think their push back was townie and I don't think that them being upset at Mastina's "soul read" was a grammatical scum slip. Just because they didn't just roll their eyes or just say "I'm town, you're silly" I don't think that really detracts from it.

I think.
Probably.
I'm not going to sheep Mastina. Somebody else please.

[Bell]

I don't regret flipping it I'm pretty happy that I did, it's the best flip in the game because I think it says a lot about the gamestate regardless of flip, ya know?
Pretty good flip to work off of.

I'd agree, if I got anywhere.
Which I didn't. It's all just speculation. A lot of players gave stuff away by how they navigated Mastina's wagon, but I can't seem to draw good conclusions from it.

[Bell]

RE: Cephrir. We talked about it.

Pretty much, I came out with a paper thin town lean from the conversation. Something, something, timid raccoon reads,, something, something, not swayed by others when non-specific.

@KittyTacky: *blink* What did you call?

[Bell]

Alisae kind of has a point. I don't know how to engage with silly.
Other than being silly back I mean.

[Bell]

Sure, sure
why is this your town game?

[Bell]

whatever this clan leader thing is, at least 2 and i bet 3 of you are outed so maybe there's not any point in playing coy about it

we all are outed to each other anyway. so there is nothing coy about it at all. and its certainly not making any of us more or less town/mafia. if anything I lean on at least facing one mafia leader based on the mechanics involved but I bet it had randomness too.

I am river clan's leader.

so if you've been influenced by a leader wrongly to assume they have a very special role that clears them, you better start not trusting what your leader said about it.

So FA claimed publically in thread to be leader so @Dannflor it doesn’t really slam dunk that there is a scum in leaders cus anyone could read that.

Oh my god, I missed that.
But oh my god.

[Bell]

I agree that bear’s reactions the last few pages have been pitch perfect to my ears in terms of towniness.

[Bell]

in their past scum games they usually struggled to respond to pushes on them and questioning of them consistently. they've already done more here in that respect than they ever have before

have you looked at all his scumgames? which ones?

I can’t not scum read you for posts like this.
Who investigates this angle?
What are you expecting to find? Them lying? Something to agree or disagree on? Where is this going to lead? Is it a good use of your time? Will it help you read fire?

[Bell]

Re: bear read. Just mind meld, spontaneous realistic reactions a healthy fear of miseliminating Kitty. I was pretty much thinking along the same lines.

[Bell]

I see the T3 votes. I have no further comment at this time. Please speak with my lawyer.

[Bell]

That exchange did not give me good vibes

2nd. But I’m not sure why.
Titus is liable to do this sort of weirdness.
Penguin is somewhat defensive.

So I have no idea why it feels off.

[Bell]

They’re both weird.
Controlling for their weirdness is an artform and I am a terrible artist.

[Bell]

I'm here, paying attention.
Out right don't know what to make of everything.

[Bell]

VOTE: Shiro

Don't mind me.

[Bell]

I’ve never seen Titus use a lawyerly in a mafia game except arguing that it’s out of the courts jurisdiction because she’s from the moon.

[Bell]

Please ask me questions because I’m also having trouble formulating my thoughts.

Why am I your top town read?

[Bell]

VOTE: Kitty

Kitty out of curiosity did you always list your location in your profile? I don't remember seeing it before.

Yellow flag.

[Bell]

the way it climaxes and the way both parties end up feeling so overconfident on the other

idk I agree it does feel a little off but mostly because it feels overaggressive on both sides

Thanks for finding the words I couldn’t find in my mouth.
It does feel familiar to two lazy scum unfriending each other on face book so that they don’t have to interact with each other ever again because it’s a pain.

[Bell]

RE: Cephrir. We talked about it.

Pretty much, I came out with a paper thin town lean from the conversation. Something, something, timid raccoon reads,, something, something, not swayed by others when non-specific.

@KittyTacky: *blink* What did you call?

WAS IT MANIPULATIVE?

No, there was nothing to manipulate. He just said in neighbor thread that he was hesitating about Mastina after she died, but in thread when she was at risk he said it was more likely than rand that she was scum. They clarified that they had been influenced by my and Norwe’s arguments, but that the other votes weren’t influential because they were arguments already experienced and turned out to be wrong.

[Bell]

So you believe that T3 is scum fire?

[Bell]

I dunno. I’m town.
I could point to stuff that might point to them being scum and what might point to them being town.

Ultimately I just find their engagement style different than what I’m used to. I can’t really read T3 and this is different than the low effort, barely there player I’m used to seeing. But they’re kind of like that as either alignment except for in this game.

I think the narrative for scum them is read walls to avoid engagement and do scum home work to stay afloat. Beginning to recognize that engagement style isn’t working for some people so they switched to reaching out for direct interaction, but couldn’t think of how to do it naturally so they did it awkwardly instead.

Town them is that they changed a bit, started contributing more but can’t seem to find their footing. I don’t really understand them enough for a town them argument. It’s also possible they’re a power role and that explains the deviation. But my sensor is buggy for that.

[Bell]

I’m staying off the gas pedal for T3 because I recognize they’re in a position where they could die pretty easily with my support added.
It’s a tad early for that. But I’m okay with it. Since they did give us a reads wall to look over, they might have even made a mistake so it could be especially productive since I don’t really think they’re the kind of player that’s good enough to avoid common mistakes but that really just depends on their flip.

[Bell]

I think I may be underestimating T3. Since I’m basically evaluating him as newbie scum.
Which isn’t really true, given they’ve been playing for years.

[Bell]

who do you want to flip, val?

I'm having a discussion about it in Windclan right now. My strongest scum read is still probably Alisae, and my second is Kitty, but the fact that I

thought

the two wanted to kill each other was making me scratch my head and wonder if I was on the wrong track; but Alisae is telling me things in Windclan (in particluar, that they FOS Catboi for pushing on KT today) that I can't make sense, and I'm trying to get there with them now.

I'm also not too keen on Mistyx and I'm discussing that read. I might end up joining you there.

Why do you need a discussion with your clan before choosing who you think you should eliminate?

[Bell]

Sure, makes sense.

[Bell]

Is shiro still in this game?

[Bell]

i will freely admit i'm being paranoid but the "you're either scum or paranoid from sleep deprivation" line feels kind of like a gaslight?

and i don't mean this pejoratively or as a personal attack or anything like that that's just genuinely how it reads to me

i'm becoming paranoid because there's supposedly 5 scum in the game but the most that consensus can come up with is circling back to just kitty/T3, and we don't really have any sort of towncore leadership that i can tell

it feels like there's fundamental issues in gamestate that aren't being addressed so i threw out something that i thought was plausible to explain them

Sounds like a true statement with anxiety behind it.
Yet somehow, I can’t tell if they’re town or not from it. Since it’s kind of true regardless of their alignment and the fear is so lloud that it sort of has to be intentionally signaled.

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I think the fundamental game state problem is that it keeps circling back to the easiest eliminations.

Which is normal. Path of least resistance, river flows from higher elevation to lower elevation etc etc.

@Bear. Talking about misty.

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I think the fundamental game state problem is that it keeps circling back to the easiest eliminations.

Which is normal. Path of least resistance, river flows from higher elevation to lower elevation etc etc.

DO YOU AGREE WITH MISTYX IN THAT THIS IS NECESSARILY A PROBLEM? I WOULD CONSIDER IT A PROBLEM ONLY IF BOTH T3 AND KITTYTACKY ARE TOWN.

No, that's a silly question.

i will freely admit i'm being paranoid but the "you're either scum or paranoid from sleep deprivation" line feels kind of like a gaslight?

and i don't mean this pejoratively or as a personal attack or anything like that that's just genuinely how it reads to me

i'm becoming paranoid because there's supposedly 5 scum in the game but the most that consensus can come up with is circling back to just kitty/T3, and we don't really have any sort of towncore leadership that i can tell

it feels like there's fundamental issues in gamestate that aren't being addressed so i threw out something that i thought was plausible to explain them

Sounds like a true statement with anxiety behind it.
Yet somehow, I can’t tell if they’re town or not from it. Since it’s kind of true regardless of their alignment and the fear is so lloud that it sort of has to be intentionally signaled.

why is your response to this post analyzing my alignment and not bear's?

this sounds like a leading question but idk how to phrase it so that it isn't

Because just because you want me to focus on what you're focusing on doesn't mean that I want to focus on it. I'm more interested in your motivations and actions because I suspect you of being scum more than the bear.
I think this is fairly clear, but I could see why you'd have to ask. Even if only to keep up appearances. Wow, sometimes I really do sound arrogant. I'm just in my own head, don't mind me.

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(also short note - i prefer people not use they/them for me, i have my pronouns listed right under my avatar, thanks)

Got it, I tend to default to gender neutral these days to avoid this, but it's a really stupid thing for me to do in retrospect since gender affirming is the name of the game, so avoiding offense isn't really the point nor does it actually prevent offense.

I'm stupid is what I'm saying.

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When Titus joined your clan, did the mod make an announcement?

Seems like an easy answer.

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When Titus joined your clan, did the mod make an announcement?

Seems like an easy answer.

@titus.
Did the mod announce you joined the clan when you used your ability?

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K.
Right now, in regards to Titus, my read on Titus is: Titus.

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Had time to make a hypothesis but not to test it. Smh.

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VOTE: Kittytacky

Never mind.
Get ‘em.

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Why is it always datisi that is the scum and why isn’t it me in my scum PT going “okay”?
I just reversed with no explanation beyond that I changed my mind.

I don’t have a case on kitty btw. I’m sheeping cephrir who is sheeping catboi who is bussing Kitty.

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Or something.

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I’m not sure if datisi is a coward who would bus his partner like that.
Mostly because I don’t think he would want to be alone.
Because he’s a coward(this is in jest)

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That joke was funnier in my head.

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Mine, also that response by catboi sucked.