Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[Cephrir]

oh no i missed the fun part

[Cephrir]

bell where is the confusion coming from it seems straightforward to me

[Cephrir]

My goal is to get eliminated within the first page for having a dog avatar.

Task failed successfully i guess?

Am i the only one in the thunderclan, nobody posted anything yet apart from me?

I've posted in the ThunderClan PT. I don't see your post in there. Double-check that you posted in the right PT?

[Cephrir]

i am townreading frozen angel for calling a case against herself solid in the process of questioning someone else

re: charloux: the case where i might find this compelling is one where the scum chat was not open until game start (possible because the neighbor PTs weren't) but there is no way to know this probably

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Ceph

this vote will not help you divine my alignment because either way i know you are just doing it to see if i will overreact

you'll need a few more votes to see if i claim scum or not

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Ceph

this vote will not help you divine my alignment because either way i know you are just doing it to see if i will overreact

you'll need a few more votes to see if i claim scum or not

Interesting you assume that's why I voted you.

Lucky guess

[Cephrir]

i want to suggest that scum would have fakeclaims & fake PMs but ive seen them not have any a frightening percentage of the time recently

[Cephrir]

Anyone who thinks there is exactly 1 scum in each neighborhood should mathematically be voting Titus.

Do we all agree that is a stupid assumption now? Great!

[Cephrir]

Anyone who thinks there is exactly 1 scum in each neighborhood should mathematically be voting Titus.

Do we all agree that is a stupid assumption now? Great!

What comes to you mind when u read Val's ISO

it's weak

his original points against bell are phrased weakly like he doesn't believe them and the last line of that post - "What am I missing?" - can be read as aware that bell is town

there are several questions that go nowhere

[Cephrir]

Anyone who thinks there is exactly 1 scum in each neighborhood should mathematically be voting Titus.

Do we all agree that is a stupid assumption now? Great!

What comes to you mind when u read Val's ISO

it's weak

his original points against bell are phrased weakly like he doesn't believe them and the last line of that post - "What am I missing?" - can be read as aware that bell is town

there are several questions that go nowhere

153 I hate. The posture (facesit, are either of these words even the right word) between SS and Bell just reads wolf.

167 also just reads like scumposting...

Honestly even the vote on bell now that I am reading the context around it...

WindClan activity seems weirdge for them as well
They wanted to go after Misty for 175.
They also said they don't see any reason behind the bear's reads.
He asks Norwee if he feels that he is on the same page I am and here I am going ??? because like what kind of question is that???

Is this scum or am I reading a lot of the things he does as just scummy?

are some of those confusing things hood related? but i agree on hating 153 on a second read, i didn't notice it the first time.

i have played one game with val before and he was fairly easily to mislim so i plan to take a slower approach

[Cephrir]

This is a boring post that people will not want to listen to but in all likelihood given a setup of 4 clan hoods of 5 players + 1 stray, which seems very probable at this point, alignments were distributed randomly between all players rather than being mod-assigned. It is possible, albeit unilikely, that a hood is pure.


If you want to use the clans as mental bracketing for sorting a group of people it's fine. Just please for fuck's sake don't start chain-limming people in endgame because "we haven't found the scum in their hood yet".

it's already giving me an aneurysm i honestly want to throw neighborhoods in the trash purely because people just will NOT stop doing this

[Cephrir]

Hi I am a mason.

Why must people who claim mason in their first post get mason roles instead of me. The world is so unfair.

[Cephrir]

It's just the people I townread. My early game townreads are usually weird and unpopular; I'm happy to chat about any of them if you want to.

Why is Shiidaji town? That seems super random.

[Cephrir]

Hi I am a mason.

Why must people who claim mason in their first post get mason roles instead of me. The world is so unfair.

Cephism spotted.
+1 to Bell’s irritation.

am i really that awful to put up with

if i had to vote right now it would be for datisi but i don't have to vote

i appreciate mastina for putting me in my own category. i think that might be a good approach for us in general for game starts.

[Cephrir]

where did this suddenly come from. also titus can be scum or town regardless of that hypothesis so its kinda weird to tie those things together

there are 5 scum and 4 neighborhoods so in order to maintain a belief in exactly 1 scum in every hood you must conclude that titus is scum.

i do not think anyone should be assuming 1 scum in each hood. it is probably random.

[Cephrir]

i was catching up and saw someone using the hoods as categories to hunt in which is a pet peeve of mine

[Cephrir]

whatever this clan leader thing is, at least 2 and i bet 3 of you are outed so maybe there's not any point in playing coy about it

[Cephrir]

oh, i think i may have just figured out what it is

[Cephrir]

2)Who knows who gets the warrior promotion?

im just going to help everyone out here and point out that revealing whether or not you already know what this, i think, outs you as having an ability or not, so if you aren't a leader or me since i've decided to out it in order to say this, you should really shut up about it for the moment

[Cephrir]

charloux does kind of have a point though there has to be some mechanism to prevent scum from just shooting the leader target (i am making some leaps here because i think i have guessed how the mechanic works)

maybe the leaders already know what that is

[Cephrir]

charloux does kind of have a point though there has to be some mechanism to prevent scum from just shooting the leader target (i am making some leaps here because i think i have guessed how the mechanic works)

maybe the leaders already know what that is

and a protection mechanic (that we hypothetically might have or have not) will make either of us clear? It just make him more scummy for going out load about how confirmed town he is for being a leader while we both know the role has nothing to do with alignment

no, it wouldn't make you clear. it does seem like a possibility that you could all be town and i kinda see the merit in giving you all a d1 pass but i agree it would be a poor assumption.

[Cephrir]

oh, you don't know each other? wow, then we really should not be outing the remaining ones imo

[Cephrir]

I see why Charloux is thinking the way he is and I think it's towny but I wouldn't put any stock in it. I think making an assumption like that is going to be about as useful as assuming there's exactly one scum in each neighborhood.

cephrir do you have any reads yet

i am townreading bear, charloux, fa and mistyx

[Cephrir]

I see why Charloux is thinking the way he is and I think it's towny but I wouldn't put any stock in it. I think making an assumption like that is going to be about as useful as assuming there's exactly one scum in each neighborhood.

cephrir do you have any reads yet

i am townreading bear, charloux, fa and mistyx

can you elaborate on misty

honestly i see her solving the game and having any town motivation and my previous experience was watching her mail in a scum game in ktane that was so obvious i was voting her uninterrupted for like, 4 game days

[Cephrir]

mildly unfortunate that i started thinking mastina makes a surprising amount of sense this game and then she started not-really-townreading me which makes this take seem ally-motivated

norwe sounds a lot like i do when i'm scum frustrated about being the first wagon

that kittytacky post is really bad

VOTE: kittytacky

[Cephrir]

that's more words than you probably needed to dedicate to a change of 4% but what im learning from this is to play worse for townreads uwu

[Cephrir]

if i had to vote right now it would be for datisi but i don't have to vote

why did this post exist and how did your thoughts evolve since then?

I dunno I guess I wanted my suspicions out there without having to tarnish a potential perfect voting record since I sorta have a streak going but then I got over myself

They haven't evolved much I still kinda get scum from most of your posts but I'm not really sure why so I'm going in a direction that has more substance

[Cephrir]

Why so?

I'm here and paying attention, just trying to formulate an opinion based on the posts made.
While waiting for more from certain low post players.
Consider my Datisi read slightly blunted.
I can't really read Alisae.
I can't read Titus. They've kind of been like this since the last 3-5 games I've played with them. Where the activity and content is so erratic and sort of unrelated to anything that I can't make sense of what their actual trajectory is.

I'm still sitting on Norwe, because I don't think that me feeling bad if they get eliminated early if they're town is an actual reason not to kill them. It's frustrating tho.

you seem to be either intentionally limiting the thoughts you share or just not really having them in a way that seems more like scum you

your posts feel like they're being made out of obligation rather than natural thought. 640 especially feels way more like turing test bell than town bell

im not like too pressed about sorting you immediately tho so

i find myself agreeing with this

well there goes my plan to fakeclaim leader and draw a kill that would've been awesome

I kind of have trouble believing this was a real thought you actually had

pretty sure it was a joke

[Cephrir]

I really don’t agree with person rewrites posts a few times and decides to be concise and is therefore scum.
I would have accepted Bell wasn’t posting with an internal timer which led to the change. But the reasoning just doesn’t reach the truth in this case.

this... isn't what fire said? so it's just a strange way of phrasing a defense?

[Cephrir]

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

why so mad? it's like 3 or 4 votes

[Cephrir]

zzzzz

[Cephrir]

norwe is probably town

i literally have 0 idea why there are votes on marashu

this game is zzz

[Cephrir]

what would make the game less zzz

do you have any hot takes you want to share

im finding the post density to be high and that activates my not-caring-o-vision

maybe i'll find something interesting later

[Cephrir]

Cephrir you aren't being very social in a game where I would expect you to be at least semi-social

I feel like you don't really care to talk to anyone and frankly it feels like you just aren't having fun and even if you weren't really in this game yet I'd kinda expect town you to be trying to find the fun more?

i have no disagreement with this take

idk maybe it's because i'm not feeling good in real life and the result is a lack of pep. or maybe it's just too many players and too seriousbusiness. i dont disagree that im not really having fun yet and that it would be town indicative if i were.

[Cephrir]

i do have an apathetic-town model but it's been a while since it last cropped up i think

it's ok, i want to just keep waiting; also, i should not be awake right now anyway. appreciate the thought.

[Cephrir]

Bell might not be town but idk

I've been thinking he's just kinda spinning his wheels to spin them

[Cephrir]

Also: I agree that the post cap has a psychological impact. I bet that's why no one is doing fun things for me to enjoy

[Cephrir]

since when the fuck did we have 3 mastinas in a mafia game what the fuck I didn't sign up for this...

i reread marashu

VOTE: marashu

[Cephrir]

i quoted that like an hour ago for a post i ended up not making

[Cephrir]

i reread marashu

do you wanna share what you saw with the class

it wasn't inspiring, i say uninspiringly

[Cephrir]

i quoted that like an hour ago for a post i ended up not making

hmmmm I wonder if that's +scum

shrug. sure. i was just going to agree and i decided i wasn't adding anything worth spending a post on

[Cephrir]

i quoted that like an hour ago for a post i ended up not making

hmmmm I wonder if that's +scum

i quoted that like an hour ago for a post i ended up not making

hmmmm I wonder if that's +scum

shrug. sure. i was just going to agree and i decided i wasn't adding anything worth spending a post on

YOU SEEM A LITTLE TOO BOTHERED BY THE IMPLICATION IN ORDER TO PULL OFF THE SHRUG RESPONSE. WHAT'S REALLY ON YOUR MIND? HAVING TROUBLE FINDING THE SCUM?

Everything except this mafia game is on my mind

[Cephrir]

alright

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Cephrir]

...day miller????

[Cephrir]

still, somebody joking about being a "day miller" if shiro later turns out to be a daycop would raise my hackles into the ceiling.

[Cephrir]

If Alisae was self-conscious about having lot of abilities as scum wouldn’t they just not mention it right out from the gate?

That's why it's called a scumslip. Alisae wouldn't think about the language "one of" implies and wouldn't realize it gave away having multiple.

I am pretty sure absolutely anyone would think of that.

[Cephrir]

I don't really understand why we are voting mastina up for what is essentially standard mastina. The only scummy thing she has done is not deathtunnel me for existing.

[Cephrir]

I don't really understand why we are voting mastina up for what is essentially standard mastina. The only scummy thing she has done is not deathtunnel me for existing.

I dunno what to make of a wall post that is basically “I’m not scum because of my activity, it’s just RL stuff this isn’t happening” it’s a borderline post that looks like it’s more about their reputation and it only really makes sense from the perspective that, unfortunately while they were super busy they also happened to be scum. Don’t make waves about it or give me shit later you guys.

she could definitely be scum but i think that will become more clear based on whether or not she continues to do this into d3

[Cephrir]

reading mastina based on whether or not she is making good posts is a poor maneuver as she does not make good posts as any alignment

[Cephrir]

Following Mastina in her towngames is an adventure, an joirney if you will.
You see their thoughts evolve, their brainpower being put at full work and on display for all to see. It’s beautiful and freaking obvious whwn she is town.
As scum she is an terminator. One goal, one set of programming, no hesitancy, no doubt. Nothing may change the set values. It’s clear to me that this is what we are dealing with here based on the carchup.

Hm

This might be true actually

[Cephrir]

i will partake in your exercise but also add punctuation marks to feel special

Alisae town?
catboi town?
Charloux town!
Datisi scum
NorwegianboyEE town
Bell town?
KittyTacky scum
Dannflor town?
Mistyx town!
SCRRRDBEAR town
Titus* scum
fireisredsir town?
mastina scum?
Frozen Angel town!
Cephrir clown
Marashu scum
Shiro town
Something_Smart town
Val89 town
T3 Shiidaji town?
PenguinPower town?

sorry these are so boring

[Cephrir]

mastina providing reasons or having content is not as unheard of as i once thought, but it is rare

[Cephrir]

ig looking again, mastina could be doing the thing where she spends like way more words talking about everything besides actual reasons for reads so that it looks like she has content bc she keeps posting massive walls but none of them actually provide any game advancing material

idk

@penguin i think its the reasoning thats more important tho. like she had points (titus claim, my claim) where she clearly was adjusting her reads and direction based on new info. her overall readlist might have stayed similar but her thoughts were changing. i do think most of that was after d1 tho. and even a lot of d2 she was singularly focused on the roden angle

The "important" post from Mastina was just babble.
I wish i could say it was more but it was not.
Whenever Mastina mentions us it’s like an contest of how many ways and variations of speech you could say for "they are scum" without giving a single good point of reasoning.

i thought you had played with mastina before? this is what she usually does

[Cephrir]

funny, no one cares when it's directed at me but suddenly she's doing it to someone else and now it's heinous

[Cephrir]

I find it strange that Bell indicated themselves as scum in their reaction-list.

I'm suspicious of how genuine Cephrir's list is

Why?

VOTE: T3

[Cephrir]

I find it strange that Bell indicated themselves as scum in their reaction-list.

I'm suspicious of how genuine Cephrir's list is

Why?

VOTE: T3

I get people marking Shiro and I as scum/scum, with them marking us as town/town, and with them marking Shiro scum and myself as town, but marking Shiro as town and me as scum doesn't make any sense to me unless you think she's either lying or wrong.

I was giving my read independent of that info, but that is why I'm not interested in pursuing you right now

[Cephrir]

We of the river clan* have reached a consensus.
Vote Mastina.

*it’s the royal we.

there were no discussions in river clan about mastina.

Why would you act like its a general conscious?

"royal we" implies he actually just means himself but yes it was confusing

i actually didn't mind bell's mastina vote; i think he is coming at it from a meta perspective, not saying meltdowns are always scummy. i think he and norwe have had the best mastina votes as they take mastina into account. many of the other votes are just voting mastina for being mastina and maybe they'll get lucky this game.

[Cephrir]

i guess i don't really care about this i would give mastina slightly higher odds of flipping scum than a random player so shrug

[Cephrir]

idk i did go read mastina's most recent scum game and i don't think this is really accurate, she's not like incapable of progression as scum. but i think there she was a lot less willing to go into detail on reasoning or respond to new posts and stuff. and i think the level to which she's doing that here is closer to that than it is to her play in datisi's cafe as town

It should be noted that that was both a multiball game (I could get real read progression, not needing to fake it), and also I had a negative utility role so I knew from the onset that I needed to die for my team to stand a chance (so I deliberately didn't want to go into too much detail, as to avoid spewing players town after I flipped).

What a lot of folks don't seem to get is that there's more than one mastina scumgame style (but most of them have in common: "find the least-effort way to easiest generate a scum win", the shortest path to victory, doing the least amount necessary, and in general, not relying on myself to carry), and there's more than one town mastina style, and that both are affected by real life factors, and that being affected by those real life factors doesn't change those alignments, it just changes the representation of them. And most people get those affected-by-rl representations wrong.

It's not really worth going into detail tho, because my flip will do the talking for me in demonstrating once more that basically everyone who claims to know my meta, is bullshitting, because if they

did

know my meta they would know I was town.

What IS worth talking about?

Spoiler: past version

{catboi, Datisi, Dannflor, Bell, fireisredsir, Val89, Marashu, Frozen Angel*}
{Charloux, Mixtyx}
(second tier still locktown, just not same certainty--all of them I almost put in the above tier, so the separation between them is very small and nearly nonexistent.)

TOWN:
{SCRRRDBEAR, Cephrir}

{PenguinPower}

TOWN?:
{Shiro, Shiidaji}

???
{KittyTacky}
{Titus}


PROBABLY SCUM:
{Something_Smart}

SCUM:
{Alisae}
{NorwegianboyEE}.

I'm gonna do this a bit differently, instead of town to scum doing strength.

Dann/Datisi/catboi are genuinely never scum here. Ever.
When I say that, I am not exaggerating. I have played it out in my head countless times. I've looked for literally any sign whatsoever.
I've scrutinized every interaction that I've seen from them, and genuinely.
There is zero doubt. No paranoia. None. Not a drop.

I know that I usually exaggerate. I know that I usually am hyperbolic. That when I day a read is 100%, it's not REALLY 100^, I'm just leaving out the small voices of doubt behind the read.

When I say they are 100% town, I mean 100% TOWN. I genuinely don't see the scum. It’s not there. I'm looking for it. But no matter how I slice it. They're just...town.

Next, Alisae and Norwee are both scum.
I genuinely don't see them as town. I've looked. It’s not there. I can't find the townness. All I can see is the scum.
However, I admit it's possible that I just can't see the town in them. I am telling you that they are 100% scum, genuinely no paranoia.

Below that is FA. Removing the shroud of 100%, the actual number is more like 90%, and removing the same shroud, the this-is-town is closer to 85%. I still need to do the research, since it's fully possible she can legit be 100% in her town meta with me 100% certain. But I need to do the research there.

Bell, Marashu, Mistyx are the next step down. Estimate of 75%. They have very very very strong, compelling reasons to be town, it's just that unlike the holy Trinity, I DO have paranoia. I was hiding it before, but it's there. It exists, and is the remaining 25%. Where my reasons could be wrong and the scummier aspects that briefly pinged were right.
But if this were a readslist, I'd still list them as locktown.

Fire might be up with them, but I forget the reason why. I know that part of it is "fire isn’t acting like Cafe him, therefore town", but I had reasons for townlocking him beyond that. If I remember them, will get back to you on him.

Charloux I have no clue where to place tbh.

The next definitive placements are Something Smart and Cephrir. I had one as SLIGHTLY higher than the other while writing this mentally, but I can't remember which was higher right now because they're that close in comparative strength, at about 60% for SS scum, Ceph town.
(Note for percentages: 50% isn’t null, null is 0%. So 60% isn’t "just 10% higher than default", it's 60% higher than default.)

The rest, don't honestly know percentage wise.
Bear, Charlpux, Shiro, and Shiidaji I all loosely think are town, but fucked if I know by how much.


The tl;Dr takeaway tho:
Datisi, catboi, Dannflor all ALWAYS town; NEVER eliminate them.
Genuinely locktown.

Bell, Marashu, Mistyx, probs-FA are all town; NEVER consider eliminating them prior to lylo, and even then think very very hard before doing so, because they're probably town.

Norwee and Alisae ARE scum.
You might not believe it now, but they ARE going to flip scum because they're NOT town.

SS probscum, Ceph probtown, but not infallibly so.

Rest, meh.

Updated:

100% reads

:

TOWN:

{Datisi, Dannflor, catboi}

SCUM:

{NorwegianboyEE}

NO DOUBT

:

TOWN:

{Frozen Angel}

SCUM:

{Alisae}

HIGH CONFIDENCE

:

(~80-90%)

TOWN:

{Bell, fireisredsir, Val89, Marashu, Mistyx}

MID-CONFIDENCE

:

(~65-75%)

TOWN:

{Charloux}

LOW-CONFIDENCE

:

(~50-60%)

TOWN:

{Cephrir}

SCUM:

{Something_Smart}

ZERO-CONFIDENCE

:

(fucked if I know)

{SCRRRDBEAR town?}
{Shiro, Shiidaji}
{PenguinPower, KittyTacky}

{Titus}

As a reminder: baseline is 0%. So 50% isn't null, 50% is +50% from null. 60% isn't 10% above null, it's 60% above null.

Norwee moves up to a locked read because I discussed my read on him in the neighborhood and I realized that, actually, yeah. I CAN soulread Norwee. He IS scum. I guarantee you he is scum. 100% guaranteed. I reviewed it in my head countless times. I approached it from every angle, wondering, "am I wrong here?". But I'm not.
I don't know why I can soulread Norwee. But I can. And he's scum this game. You might not believe me today, but it doesn't matter. You want to eliminate scum, you eliminate Norwee. Period. I guarantee you. Literally 100% guarantee you. Norwee is scum. Norwee is so scum that if a cop claims an inno on him, the cop is lying.

I know Norwee's play. I know I can read him. I know that he's scum here. He's the one player onsite that I can randomly soulread. And he is scum, here.
I know I

should

give reasons for why he's scum, demonstrating why he's scum, but I'm done being mastina so I'm done trying to explain reads. It's a read I'm NEVER wrong about tho. I KNOW I can read Norwee, and I KNOW that Norwee's scum this game.

Frozen Angel, her posting and stances I believe are town aside from the meta suggestion she's town. I'm comfortable locking her there as town, with no doubts.

Alisae I realize people think e's town today, but when Alisae continues to defend Norwee to the death when Norwee flips scum, remember that Alisae has done so from the onset. Remember every mislim Alisae pushes through, and e will push through several! Remember all the players that are town that Alisae ends up suspecting. Eventually, Alisae will feel the pressure of widely not being seen town anymore, and at that point will probably bus, but then e will use the towncred from that bus to leverage even more mislims. So remember this and remember that all of it collectively means that Alisae is scum.

I remembered the reasons on fire beyond "fire isn't playing like Datisi's cafe, therefore town", and yes, they are good. fire's early thoughts I find highly town, highly accurate, and highly reasonable in a way unlikely to be scum. His engagement has just felt a lot more natural and organic this game. Tonewise he's an entirely different player and that tells me probably town. But, I've never played with fire outside of Datisi's cafe, so it's not the same level of locktown. He IS locktown tho.

Mistyx's posts have gotten better throughout the game, raising her to locktown as well. She's different from what I remember her being like as scum, is matching what I remember her being like as town, and has tone similar to fire that I think is town. But it's not a 100% read.

Bell's reads are honestly shit this game (see also, he thinks I'm scum, he pushed Datisi), which is in of itself a concern, and he's not QUITE as active and strong as I know a town Bell to be, but I'm still like 90% sure this is Bell's towngame because his activity has picked up (rather than died down) and he is being fairly strongly present.

Marashu is never scum here for their entering posts. Everything about Marashu radiates town. Marashu is only this low because no familiarity with Marashu.

Ditto for Val. Val is never scum here for their perspectives throughout the game, the sheer town tone, and being initially suspect of scum (Norwee, Alisae) but later ending up pocketed by them in a way that hard-spews Val town. The only reason this is a 90% rather than 100% is lack of familiarity with Val.

Charloux, I basically believe the clan leaders are all (or at least mostly) town both reads-wise (Dannflor and FA are locktown), and also mech-spec-wise (them being town makes sense given the apprentice mechanic). Play-wise Charloux's content has felt fairly good, but my lack of engagement with the majority of Charloux's stances as well as lack of familiarity keep this from being stronger.

Ceph, vibe-wise I just have a gut-town read on him. He's notoriously difficult to read, but he just seems town?

Something_Smart, similarly so, vibes as scum.

The rest, fucked if I know, with the exception of Titus.

I think Titus is scum here because I feel that if Titus were town here, she would be defending me as town in a similar way that Frozen Angel is defending me right now. Titus should

know

why I am town this game (similarly to how FA does), and yet, she is not defending me.
I know that she's busy. I know she's not doing much in the game.
But I know she's not too busy to defend me. Which is why I feel her lack of doing so is loosely scum-indicative.
But it's not a strong read because I realize that she is playing this game solo, and as a solo-Titus, she is less likely to be engaged when as busy as she is. The timeline crunch with her absent feels a little suspect, her lack of defense of me feels a little suspect, but it's not strong.

I'm NEVER wrong on any of these.

I guarantee you.

I can soulread Norwee and Norwee is scum this game.

I guarantee you that all of Datisi, Dannflor, and catboi are town.
I guarantee you that FA is town, too, albeit not to the same tier as the holy trinity is.

And given the above guarantees, between my read on em and eir stances over the game, you'll be able to

eventually

see that Alisae is scum, too.

But I'm done fighting for the reads in spite of being more sure than ever in the above being true.

Pagetopping these!

It's from a poem

[Cephrir]

The Q+ button and my fat fingers are a match made in heck

[Cephrir]

VOTE: kittytacky just to see what happens

[Cephrir]

I called that Mastina is town. IDK why I am being flashwagoned. I think we should follow mastina's reads now that she is conf town.

mm

why no comment on FA's reads? she's confirmed town and was actively targeted to be removed by scum

why not follow her reads?

drat i felt clever for being about to make this post

[Cephrir]

IDK IS IT A MISTAKE FOR ME TO TOWNBIN VAL?

if so, we are both making a mistake

[Cephrir]

btw when i saw 2 PMs in my inbox i was so sure i had failed to see day 2 as town yet again

[Cephrir]

my gut response was "why wouldn't you post this in your neighborhood"

[Cephrir]

would it be Bad and Wrong of me to think that the FA kill makes it more likely that one of the leaders is scum

how come? i don't see how it indicates either way really, the leaders seem like good kills from what little i know + she was townie.

[Cephrir]

2. Sure. Datisi is strongly town as I think only town would push this hard on someone. There's a genuine conviction there. Scum would be a bit or a lot more cautious pushing a townie. Titus is town. Her posts show a pretty decent progression and a town motivation. Bell and fireisred too for the same reason, the latter I have doubts on though. SCRRRD is pretty obvtown for me from the motivation I see behind their posts, looking past the aggressive post gimmick.

where is the decent progression and town motivation from titus?

what has impressed you from fire? i'm still waiting for him to excite me

[Cephrir]

Can you explain to me why its a townbin instead of a townread?

I'm not really revisiting or thinking critically about it at all atm

[Cephrir]

Well there's also the warrior ceremony provides 1-shot bp.

...was this known or did you out it for no reason

[Cephrir]

I'm less enthused about outing shiro than the rest of the table is. They can clarify how serious they were I guess but I'd be upset if we outed masons or something just because we can't find anyone to vote that isn't marashu

Idk I want to vote kitty but I'm not feeling sure about it. I'm having trouble finding the scum in this game. I still get scum off basically every datisi post but I think he's very valuable as town so hesitant to kill him

[Cephrir]

I thought your analytical skills were good in that one game we were in a hood recently

And I don't have a reason for suspecting you it's just tone/vibes I know that's not going to be satisfying sry

[Cephrir]

why would i need to test the waters when i already know from yesterday that pushing you is viable

i also made the same comment yesterday so it's not like this is a new idea from me

[Cephrir]

why is it important to sheep players who might have powers

[Cephrir]

we can't protect the promoted people

[Cephrir]

Does wind clan have a readwall from FA?

no - i'm oversimplifying but she was basically against using it

[Cephrir]

the idea that scum pushed mastina through because she was on target is kind of laughable. i don't think that is something scum frequently do unless they're a very competent team that's not worried about the lim themselves. FA much more likely to have been on target as they have 100% control there

[Cephrir]

t3's iso is pretty dire

VOTE: T3

[Cephrir]

i say that mainly because it consists mostly of promises to catch up which never result in anything

[Cephrir]

good job everyone, our string of consecutive naked votes is sure to mess up any VCAers

[Cephrir]

That exchange did not give me good vibes

[Cephrir]

What makes you so sure?

[Cephrir]

That exchange did not give me good vibes

which side and why

i haven't figured out which side yet. maybe both.

i might read it again

[Cephrir]

I really don’t care about the meta of some troll if that’s how u sort them good for u.

Other people can do whatever the fuck they want, I just think that engaging with the slot to me is a waste of posts. I mean I think the guy posts like an open wolf npc but I mean maybe more people need more time to reach that conclusion? I’m just saying why I’m not engaging with it, and you shouldn’t either it’s not worth ur posts.

i don't think they're actually a troll,

they just often get eliminated.

and there's a difference between saying that you're not going to engage with the posts anymore and encouraging other people not to. that's the part i don't really get. i get it in situations where the person is like spamming or just being a nuisance or whatever, but i don't really feel like that applies here?

idk maybe im just sensitive to the sentiment he gave of getting discouraged by feeling like people are ignoring him when he tries to get more engaged, so then seeing you basically telling everyone to ignore him is like... feels like targeted towards shutting down any chance of him showing himself as town if he is

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

this & catboi's previous post re: kitty make me want to kill kitty again.

i also read a scumgame of hers and it made me realize that my previous standards for her scumplay (based on ktane) were way too low of a bar

damn it

with the T3 flash happening in the way it did im not convinced thats true anymore

do you think there is scum pushing t3 here? who is it? and why couldn't scum be split between pushing t3 AND pushing mastina's reads?

don't be silly everyone knows scum are a monolith united behind a single end goal for each day and they always have A Plan at all times /s

Alisae was pushing mastina pretty hard D1 after getting called out, even though mastina was pushing Norwee. Like, there was some fixation going on there. I'm not seeing much scrutiny on that, but since more than 5 people have posted, it's not that scum just isn't bringing it up. But why isn't scum discussing it, and why isn't town discussing it? I honestly don't know if this is normal for Alisae (who also tried to flashlim T3, so I'm guessing she likes to try to take control of wagons), but she was acting like mastina was foundscum, but looking back I see a lot of rhetoric and trying to discredit mastina's arguments.

Coming out of my dormant state to comment on this.

I believe that Alisae fighting Mastina in D1 also had to do with our co-operation in hood. I joined this game because Alisae invited me and we are trying to solve together. As we are in a hood together it is also very easy for us to both share ideas and fight for each other. And as we both discussed scumreading Mastina for their push it is only natural that they were fiery in their pushback against Mastina. I do not scumread it, and i also think that with this information that nobody else should either. Think of it this way, Mastina literally strengthened our resolve by pushing an team of me/Alisae. And so she got an self-fulfilling prophesy. We both fought like hell to bury her. (With the cave-eat that we genuinely believed her to be scum)

why are you in a dormant state?

[Cephrir]

ok his posts on page 77 do be looking kinda fake tho

English is not my first language so I struggle with getting tone across.

do you have anything that's not excuses

[Cephrir]

sorry i didn't mean to imply i don't believe you about that i just feel like you're always ready with a defense but getting actual content out of you is like pulling teeth

do you have any response to 2118?

[Cephrir]

Mastina says my reads are "worse than random" but how on Earth would an uninformed player know that. I won't say it's an outright slip but I wonder why nobody else is paying attention to that when a townread of mine was flipped and turned out to be town.

it's just a roundabout way of saying e thinks your reads are incorrect

[Cephrir]

i dont know if this exercise will help me but i am going to do it anyway

VOTE: t3

Why did you vote mastina yesterday?

i am curious as to whether titus was planning a gotcha from the start with this question. it kinda feels like it. i could also see it as theater -- i just feel like the goal from the outset was to start shit, for some reason?

1) Why me = fry me.
2) Your "consensus" about Riverclan came after Bell's vote.

we're adults it's 2022 and this isn't a chat mafia game; do we need "why me fry me" anymore.

So then you're capitalizing on coincidence. Cool.

ugh, the tone hurts me. i really don't like how neither participant in the conversation managed to have even a moment of mea culpa but instead tried to pave over it when they got facts wrong.

Hugely disagree with you on point 1. You seem to be somewhat accurate on point 2, but why call out me or norwe and not Bell? Bell shifted it from [5] T3/[4] mastina to [5]mastina/[4] T3.

Spoiler: VC at my vote

VOTE COUNT 1.8

[5]

mastina

: Alisae, NorwegianboyEE, Shiro, Dannflor, fireisredsir
[4]

Datisi

: Frozen Angel, SCRRRDBEAR, PenguinPower, Bell
[3]

NorwegianboyEE

: mastina, Something_Smart, KittyTacky
[3]

KittyTacky

: Mistyx, Cephrir, Charloux
[2]

PenguinPower

: Datisi, catboi
[2]

Alisae

: Val89, Marashu

[2]

Not Voting

: T3, Titus

—

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to eliminate.

Day one ends in (expired on 2022-10-30 12:12:34).

MOD NOTES

• have fun!

• let us know if you have any questions, or if something's wrong! sorry for the vc errors, i've been sustained by cold medicine the past few days.

• currently v/la: shiro, datisi, fireisredsir

• a joint mod iso may be found here!

VOTE: Mastina

I have an important announcement.

Due to things that have come to light and

Unforeseen Circumstances

, we as the wind clan have come to a decision that we must act with quick haste.
In part of this decision, we will now attempt to back the following motion.

VOTE: T3

It gets better if you vote him before he shows any signs of life

VOTE: T3

Sure.

I have an important announcement.

Due to things that have come to light and

Unforeseen Circumstances

, we as the wind clan have come to a decision that we must act with quick haste.
In part of this decision, we will now attempt to back the following motion.

VOTE: T3

It gets better if you vote him before he shows any signs of life

Ok, I want to see where this goes.
VOTE: T3

VOTE: T3

I find it strange that Bell indicated themselves as scum in their reaction-list.

I'm suspicious of how genuine Cephrir's list is

Why?

VOTE: T3

Okay,
so
I'll be real here.

My meta on Mastina is basically:
Will Mastina have a meltdown?
Y: Scum.
N: Town.

They had a meltdown.

I'm fine with this. For the day.
VOTE: Mastina

Ah, I see what you're saying for plot reasons one kitty leaves the clan/is evil.
While Titus is the good rogue kitty that comes in to shore up the clan that had a loss/betrayal.
Makes sense from a plot point perspective.

...I forgot what Ydra said about this. *shrug* I'm sure someone will dig it up.

VOTE COUNT 1.8

[5]

mastina

: Shiro, Dannflor, fireisredsir, Val89, Bell
[4]

T3

: Alisae, Marashu, NorwegianboyEE, Cephrir
[3]

Datisi

: Frozen Angel, SCRRRDBEAR, PenguinPower,
[3]

NorwegianboyEE

: mastina, Something_Smart, KittyTacky
[2]

KittyTacky

: Mistyx, , Charloux
[2]

PenguinPower

: Datisi, catboi

[2]

Not Voting

: T3, Titus

—

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to eliminate.

see the thing i just said: "you seem to be somewhat accurate" feels like dodgy framing. i question whether it's coming from good faith

It shouldn't. PP is 100% scum here.

Your vote came after Cephrir which was with T3 at 5.

This is an inaccurate statement.

but why call out me or norwe and not Bell? Bell shifted it from [5] T3/[4] mastina to [5]mastina/[4] T3.

This is an accurate statement followed up by a question

1) Why me = fry me.

This is a deflection instead of answering the question now that it has been showing your original statement was inaccurate.

2) Your "consensus" about Riverclan came after Bell's vote.

Yet another inaccurate statement.

At least one of these comments is entirely pointless? i don't really agree that point 1 on its own is a deflection since it comes in the context of a larger post which, while wrong, does appear to me to address what was being talked about? im talking out my ass a little here i lost the thread of the argument

VOTE: Titus

as far as i can tell this vote is primarily for making inaccurate statements, if i'm to think the prior post had a point? i haven't found that to be a hallmark of scum

What makes you so sure?

1) He basically lied about his wagon position.
2) When I corrected him, he turned attention to bell.
3) His mastina vote is sheeping the river clan naked.
4) T3 was a lazy no info vote yesterday but now suddenly is worth a naked vote as the wagon creeps up.
5) He shades my attention on him and his behavior as deflection from Bell.

i don't care about 1 or 3 but the others seem maybe valid. but i don't think titus ever answered the question as to why she didn't attack bell? am i missing it?

What makes you so sure?

1) He basically lied about his wagon position.
2) When I corrected him, he turned attention to bell.
3) His mastina vote is sheeping the river clan naked.
4) T3 was a lazy no info vote yesterday but now suddenly is worth a naked vote as the wagon creeps up.
5) He shades my attention on him and his behavior as deflection from Bell.

1.)No, I looked at the two votecounts from the mod and was incorrect.
2.)No, I went and counted the votes between the two votecounts from the mod and it showed that YOU were incorrect in your statement that I was the shifting vote. It was Bell, and I called that out to you.
3.)Hi, I'm PP. Welcome to my D1 in all games every. You are aware of this.
4.)Yes, if lazy people continue to not do things it's fine. This isn't D1 anymore.
5.)No, you are ignoring something that factually happened to push elsewhere based on falsities.

it is still fair to say that there was an attempt by PP to divert the conversation to bell, though... and my brain's shutting down darn i thought this one was simple enough for me

[Cephrir]

Cephrir I will off your the play by play of what happened in hood.
Prior to this we are talking about the votecount I gave Titus (one that had T5 wagon at 5 votes).
She wants me to go Norwee I tell her I would feel more comfortable going for T3 > Norwee and she was like ya that's fine but I don't townread Norwee.

Before 2059, but after she documents that T3 felt way too easy.
2067, after this she immediately posts in hood that she felt that PP lied to her about when his vote came in and then declares PP as lockscum.

Then that was like, it regarding what she said about PP.

Does this like help you at all?

Slightly? Idk I still feel suspicious of both of them.

[Cephrir]

Counterpoint: nuh uh. But you can help me bus this if you want.

VOTE: Kitty

[Cephrir]

Titus was somewhat accurate though? The votecount was not at 2, but T3 was not at 5 votes and Bell was the shifting vote not me. How else would you have preferred for me to frame that to not be dodgy given the accuracy of my statement?

I think it's dodgy that you didn't just own up to being wrong, or tried to word it in such a way as to deemphasize that

[Cephrir]

How does point 1 address what I asked instead of just deflect? Where is the larger post that addresses what was being talked about.

It doesn't but I thought point 2 did, even though it was incorrect, so I felt taking point 1 to task about it was taking it out of context unfairly

[Cephrir]

It's strange that people started saying I sound like I don't want to be here when I in fact just started getting into the game and trying

[Cephrir]

Would love to hear other thoughts on the Titus/PP exchange from people smarter than me. It really jumps out to me as important

[Cephrir]

Why what? I felt like there was scum in it, my giving a shit ometer was activated

[Cephrir]

Titus was somewhat accurate though? The votecount was not at 2, but T3 was not at 5 votes and Bell was the shifting vote not me. How else would you have preferred for me to frame that to not be dodgy given the accuracy of my statement?

I think it's dodgy that you didn't just own up to being wrong, or tried to word it in such a way as to deemphasize that

Sure sure - that's why I posted the entire vote chain leading up to it. I'm certainly trying to hide that I was wrong on the votecount.

Why what? I felt like there was scum in it, my giving a shit ometer was activated

I mean why does it jump out to you as important

what makes you feel there has to be scum in there

neither Titus nor Penguin particularly strike me as the type to get into shit fights as scum

I didn't say has to be, but it felt that way. Not the content of the argument so much as both of their tactics felt shady to me.

[Cephrir]

It's strange that people started saying I sound like I don't want to be here when I in fact just started getting into the game and trying

yea it was sort of the opposite for me actually

earlier i just kinda had a vague nullscumlean bc you didn't seem towny. but that can happen if you're town and just not really feeling into the game

but 2173 really reminded me of lake melancholy where you would sometimes like, do those quote analysis walls where you point out responses to things but then overall it doesn't really go anywhere and while you're doing it you sort of have this energy of like your heart isn't really in it

it just kinda feels like you felt obligated to try but you're just kinda like limply waving yourself in the general direction of stuff thats happening

and i thought the way you handled it live was kind of weird and felt like it was phrased in a way to encourage both sides but not really wanting to take one

so when i asked you to take a stance your response of doing the post by post analysis but still not really taking a side felt weird and appease-y to me rather than something that came from a place of natural thought

and like if you're town then i feel kinda bad for dumping on your attempt to get engaged in the game but like i feel like there's a disconnect between you saying that you really feel its important and the way that you handled it

like that feeling of importance has to come from somewhere

I was trying to sort out my own thoughts in real time by posting lukewarm half baked thoughts

It didn't really end up helping but I'm not one to hide my thought process even if said process isn't going to look particularly good

[Cephrir]

I guess I don't have that much to say about this. Usually I object to the idea that I would play a terrible scum game but after lake melancholy I don't really have a leg to stand on with that

[Cephrir]

ok i see what i actually want to ask here:

kitty, why do you think that alisae's reasoning is bad? what makes you think it's scum latching on and that it can't come from town? because both the reasons that catboi lined out it 2119 are something that i strongly agree with makes you look suspicious, despite your excuses for them

I explained my reasons in the very post I quoted. Why is it so inconcievable that someone who's never played with even a lenient post restriction would be anxious about it? Yes it is irrational but people aren't robots. I got over it anyways, with some difficulty. As for the latter, idk why people see me simply sheeping something as opportunistic. Just because I had little to add?

that's not my question

i am asking whether you think alisae's thoughts can or can't come from town

because i agree with them and you think i'm town

but you think alisae is scummy for them

so what is it

Because I think your push on me is strongly town and that overpowers having shitty reasons. Why? Because if you were scum you wouldn't deathpush a townie that hard day 1. It would likely result in your death the next day or at the very least prevent you from reaching endgame.

Also why do you agree with them?

My mastina TR is slowly eroding from these recent posts but I'm still not willing to vote there.

I'm just... not sure about mastina anymore. Her Norwe case really vibed with me but her recent posts pinged a little scummy.

eh, i gave it a shot, but this isn't the gotcha i was hoping for

[Cephrir]

don’t think that scum!Titus would be so open about her mech information

What has she been so open about? She couldn't have hidden not being in a hood so ?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: mistyx

who do you want to flip, val?

I'm having a discussion about it in Windclan right now. My strongest scum read is still probably Alisae, and my second is Kitty, but the fact that I

thought

the two wanted to kill each other was making me scratch my head and wonder if I was on the wrong track; but Alisae is telling me things in Windclan (in particluar, that they FOS Catboi for pushing on KT today) that I can't make sense, and I'm trying to get there with them now.

I'm also not too keen on Mistyx and I'm discussing that read. I might end up joining you there.

im sort of befuddled that anyone wants to elim neither KT nor T3

maybe that makes me boring or bad

i dont really understand val's mindset on this in particular - if you decide alisae isn't scum wouldn't that remove your reason for not being sure about a KT vote

[Cephrir]

OH ya one more thing I will mention is his response to me calling him a troll.
That is real frustration to me misinterpreting a joke.

scum can produce genuine frustration (see also: rir, ceph)

[Cephrir]

My vote will come when I am good and ready, and not when you think it should, thank you very much.

?

I didn't complain about your vote, I complained that you "might end up joining" on Mistyx when you have two strong scumreads that aren't Mistyx and one of them is a plausible elim today

[Cephrir]

why isnt kittytacky dead yet?

[Cephrir]

There's no need to be mean

[Cephrir]

75% or so of the game is town so getting a townread right is not that impressive

[Cephrir]

75% or so of the game is town so getting a townread right is not that impressive

I know. But talking about the accuracy of my reads just... doesn't make sense when there are only two flips and I only had a read on one of them? Maybe Alisae means something else by "read quality". Is it the poor explanations? I can admit that but my main most confident reads rn (Datisi and T3) I feel I have fairly solid reasoning on?

I think I already explained this but e is basically just saying e disagrees with your reads in a dramatic way

[Cephrir]

Although perhaps I should be less generous to alisae given recent posts and say it's also in a mean way

[Cephrir]

You genuinely believe our hood has 0 scum?

i don't think of scum with regards to hood memberships and i think it's extremely stupid to solve that way, which is why i didn't understand alisae's scumread there

i have been begging alisae to explain to me why they scumread t3 and they keep giving me non-answers, i'm not making anything out

based on their answers, why does alisae scumread t3, norwee?

Well i’ve stated in hood that i want us to remove the scum that is definitely in there and since every other player has felt very town and 1 slot has not even tried to engage in hood since their "hi" post, you do the math.
It’s an high-intensity zone in there and T3 couldn’t even keep up with main thread.
So it’s an selfish desire that drives me too. I want to have a scum free hood and idc what you say. It is from an game perspective almost impossible odds to just have a hood in this game that is scum free.
If T3 is town then i can only assume that i must be mistakenly townreading someone else, that’s just how it is.

At game start the odds of a hood being clean are (16/21)^5 = about 25%. There are 4 hoods. So chances of at least one of them being clean are actually quite good

[Cephrir]

So chances of at least one of them being clean are actually quite good

it's about 72% without accounting for titus

also: i feel like maybe titus' role is scummy? the fact that the hoods don't list occupants means she could have pretended to just be alone and used it to spy

but idk maybe that is overly obvious game design

and i can think of a (deeply, deeply niche) town use for that ability too

[Cephrir]

some of us aren't godly enough to be able to see titus' role pm, so we have to scumhunt. sorry o glorious overlord!

[Cephrir]

@Bell
Yes. Pretty sure i said this before too.
Mod confirmed that someone joined our hood and then Titus said hi.

the "someone" element is interesting but that does indeed ruin my theory

[Cephrir]

also: i feel like maybe titus' role is scummy? the fact that the hoods don't list occupants means she could have pretended to just be alone and used it to spy

but idk maybe that is overly obvious game design

[Cephrir]

These cat avatars….

*clears throat* M-meow.

[Cephrir]

Kinda agree^

[Cephrir]

It made me feel a lil anxious too fwiw

[Cephrir]

[6] Not voting: catboi, Marashu, Shiro, Val89, T3, Alisae

Why aren't you consolidating? That's your whole thing no? Is Titus going to magically cop votes without you doing anything to accomplish it?

[Cephrir]

Every time my feet start getting cold KT posts again and I remember why my vote feels so comfy.

There are a lot of players I'd like to vote for tho.

Pedit we are not voting charloux stop it.

[Cephrir]

i hope shiro's slot issues a clarification soon because god marashu is so scummy

[Cephrir]

[6] Not voting: catboi, Marashu, Shiro, Val89, T3, Alisae

Why aren't you consolidating? That's your whole thing no? Is Titus going to magically cop votes without you doing anything to accomplish it?

That's my whole D1 thing, yes. I also generally default to it in the absence of something to latch on to.

I'm not moving off Titus lest we're in danger of a no yeet.

that seems silly if you aren't going to do anything else to push her but ok

[Cephrir]

we are not eliminating a leader today. next

[Cephrir]

why is catboi like the only one to like ever be suspicious of me this game idgi

like I've so clearly not been around why am I not being pushed

i'm feeling meh about you if that helps

[Cephrir]

we are not eliminating a leader today. next

Is it cus they are your teammate.
Nobody is exempt from suspicion.

actually, leaders are currently exempt from suspicion because we are not voting out any of them. thanks for playing!

[Cephrir]

like, literally, if you run a leader up to E-1 i will claim scum before i let that go through

[Cephrir]

we are not eliminating a leader today. next

Is it cus they are your teammate.
Nobody is exempt from suspicion.

actually, leaders are currently exempt from suspicion because we are not voting out any of them. thanks for playing!

Ok major badvibes from Ceph right now.
This is either some horrible white knighting attempt or they have an vested interest in not voting out a potential scum just because they are leader.

"there is no possible way that town thinks it's good for the town to have power roles" --NorwegianboyEE 2022

[Cephrir]

If you townread claimed leaders i wouldn't give a fuck, but the fact that you just COMPLETELY DENY even looking at any of them and trying to solve them is fucking sus.

i mean they know we aren't going to eliminate them right now so pressuring them is pointless

i am also townreading charloux but that's not really relevant to my statements

[Cephrir]

so T3 being scum

The constant updates on catching up and notices that he's catching up are generally +scum. I think once or twice is usually fine but the volume of those posts in T3's ISO prevents someone who is very image conscious.

In general, I believe T3 is playing to get town read and stay alive. I don't think it is towny for this to be a primary motivator for someone. The only real significant content that T3 has produced has been catchup "notes," which are maybe the easiest type of content for scum to produce. Past that, T3 has not voted anyone despite coming into the game with several town reads. Why isn't he voting his counter wagon? Why isn't he pushing anyone? He pops in to explain his reads to people but it feels like... he's trying to appease people. He most recently said that he's playing to "gauge reads and not get limmed" in 2733 and I think he's exactly playing to not get limmed, and I don't think that's towny.

Funnily enough, I kinda scum read him for similar reasons that catboi had concerning my walls way back when I was elucidating town reads on datisi/scrrrdbear/fire. Mine were unprompted so they are Good and Towny , but T3 is clearly just posting things like 2315 and 2565 to get town read. It's really not clear to me that T3 has *anything* that he cares about. He's not defending anyone nor is he pushing anyone. He's just like having and explaining reads because he knows that that's what he's supposed to do. And the lack of bite or passion behind anything makes me think he's playing more to the anti-spew side of things.

Like, I would probably expect a similar level of content from T3 if he was town. Maybe even less. However, I would also expect him to *want* things. Townies have genuine opinions about the game.

I mean, this is basically just me putting a lot more words to mistyx's read in 2719

but I think it's very true. T3 is posting to look town and not get limmed and to just stay afloat. It seemed like catching up and taking notes was a *chore* for him.

I just don't believe T3 is actually thinking about this game and I think if he was town there would be at least a sliver of that somewhere.

i dont really disagree with this, although if he is playing to stay alive he is doing a bad job

i wish i could reasonably hope that an active vig exists

[Cephrir]

a mailman would actually be pretty cool in this setup you could get someone to crumb how bad they need a ceremony and then send it to a leader you trust the next night

[Cephrir]

if the wagons are T/T scum will just not care and do whatever they think they can sell as town

[Cephrir]

Kitty being town. I don't think SCRRRDBEAR's read of "Kitty doesn't want to let his scum team mates down" really lines up with my experience of Kitty in Turing Test. I feel that at a certain point scum!Kitty just kind of rolled over. Whereas here it seems like he's fighting tooth and nail. I also don't really think it meshes with the meta of Kitty apparently dying D1 as scum very often. I don't think if Kitty consistently has this level of play as scum, that he is very likely to be the D1 elimination in the average lobby.

Beyond that feeling that Kitty's play here is very different from what I know of his scum game, I generally liked how Kitty handled the 1v1 with Alisae. I think it would be very easy for scum!Kitty to kinda hide behind that conflict and spew AtE. I think generally the way he approached that was with still trying to understand Alisae despite uh, being insulted. And I think the tone he responds with, "I know I'm bad but I'm *trying*" or, "if you're town I'm sorry for being incompetent" are generally pretty towny because I would expect scum!Kitty to feign anger or get a lot more defensive. Kitty seems very open to being wrong and overall kinda demoralized that they are being run up. I would not expect this from a scum!Kitty that knows they don't have a great scum game. I think they would understand why they were being run up and also maybe not really care because it seems like they have a lot more fun as town than scum?

I also agree with mistyx's take (I think it was her) that Kitty taking offense over his read accuracy is +town. It's such a small point that doesn't actually matter but is definitely the type of thing town would get hung up on as being Very Important.

And, this might get a laugh out of a few people, despite saying "I'm town" over and over again, I don't really think Kitty is playing to "look town." Or at the very least, they are doing things beyond just appeasing people. They actually seem to care about their reads and pushing what they believe in. I think they believe they are probably to get limmed but want to try anyway, and based on what I've seen of scum!Kitty, I don't think Kitty puts anywhere near this much effort into that if they believe they are in danger of being limmed.

god damn it

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Titus

[Cephrir]

oh no

[Cephrir]

well that's depressing

[Cephrir]

you can't even join games specifically for their playerlists anymore

[Cephrir]

if we speedlim the slot can we have them back

[Cephrir]

i think i might want a claim - i'm against outing this sort of thing in a vacuum but it just looks so fishy atp

[Cephrir]

VOTE: enchant

[Cephrir]

if this flips scum, tomorrow we can go for the fewest posts in a day record

[Cephrir]

enchant stop asking your partners what to do and fakeclaim something

[Cephrir]

"Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity."

[Cephrir]

id just go with the mason claim if i were you, you don't have time to come up with anything else

[Cephrir]

claim

[Cephrir]

@marashu if you're a mason you're gonna have to claim for this clown

[Cephrir]

scum clown***

[Cephrir]

ok great! what are you?

[Cephrir]

tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock

[Cephrir]

damn that's pretty good actually

VOTE: Titus

[Cephrir]

I can see one of them being scum. If They had access to the leader pt, that would make them nigh conftown and leaders would have scum among them.
No point in voting for Alisae now so guess it's back to T3
Lemme check the votecount first; Would like a claim

This is town

[Cephrir]

Masons can you doc yourselves?

[Cephrir]

Masons can you doc yourselves?

Why you ask

Was going to advise you to do so some of the time at random

Though now that I think about it, you should either not answer that or say yes regardless of whether it's true or not.

[Cephrir]

Masons can you doc yourselves?

Not answering this.

Masons can you doc yourselves?

Why you ask

Masons can you doc yourselves?

Why would you ask this? Assume yes and keep quiet

yeah yeah ur right sorry i got excited

[Cephrir]

Masons can you doc yourselves?

Why would you ask this? Assume yes and keep quiet

My plan was to promote a doctor or something then 2/3 people would have protection for the night. And we keep that going until scum have nowhere to hide anymore

there probably isn't another doctor

[Cephrir]

resistance isn't a real thing

[Cephrir]

T3 feels like a rand flip but I guess if he's not going to become readable :/

[Cephrir]

T3 feels like a rand flip but I guess if he's not going to become readable :/

Okay, what do you think about my more recent posts.


btw I’ll respond to the fire post when I have time but currently I’m in a debate tournament so I’m posting on the go

Didn't rly care about them sry

It's not my fault no one besides you can read me bell

[Cephrir]

Not really convinced that denying scum time makes a significant difference -they have had and will still have plenty - but also not sure there's any point in dragging this out

[Cephrir]

Actually I think he's already dead

[Cephrir]

N... No

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Titus

[Cephrir]

By page 20 I’m

strongly scumreading Datisi

, Mistyx is scummy, Val is moderately scummy, Dann and Norwee are mildly scummy

Datisi scumreading Frozen Angel for over explaining her vote is weird because Frozen Angel simply wasn’t doing that. Datisi’s explanation boiled down to him saying things that other people have already said in the thread.

never mentioned again |:

[Cephrir]

i don't really think there's that much value in reading into T3's posts since he was ~never endgaming

i think theres some because even people trying to antispew arent perfect, but also more importantly it was easy to do and made me feel like i was trying

[Cephrir]

Oh wow, my town core subs out and my scumreads just go right back to counterwagoning me. Nothing to see here.

Lol sounds like more fun than pulling teeth.

no one even knows who you're scumreading besides penguinpower

the idea that you were ever part of a town core is pretty silly

this is needlessly hasty

"this?" three votes?

[Cephrir]

"this" being the fact that i have to point out that a thunderdome is bad and get questioned on that

Oh yeah sure I agree with that

[Cephrir]

Mainly if I am Titus scum why do I pick the wind hood? @Mistyx if you’re here where abouts was that discussion?

to the best of my knowledge, titus has never offered any reason for that decision as town either. i just went looking in her iso for it.

but that hood had a lot going on in it at the time, so i'd be surprised if that weren't the reason as either alignment.

[Cephrir]

oh i guess i can't read

[Cephrir]

I'm a stray. Someone adopt me.

I think Titus is town here. Titus doesn’t usually crumb (although sometimes does) as scum. It’s almost a dead give away she’s town here. A lot of people here have played with Titus before so I am curious why people who know her are scumreading her.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

read the rest of her iso and get back to me

[Cephrir]

Similarly PP responding arrogantly and not going “oh oops I made a mistake” really loudly and just deflecting is going to irk Titus.

they both did this.

[Cephrir]

I'm going to vote for SCRRRDBEAR for Warrior Ceremony.

I don't see what we gain by posting this

[Cephrir]

Titus dumbtell is giving me pause

[Cephrir]

Even though like... Idk how you can think each clan has a protector when you are not in a clan?

[Cephrir]

okay well i disagree that people should know that - knowing who has powers helps scum and doesn't help town in any way that i can think of

[Cephrir]

one of them doesn't, the rest probably do, but i don't think it's worth pointing them straight at every power role

[Cephrir]

and yes i'm kinda assuming the leaders are all town here but that is my current setup spec

[Cephrir]

it's part of the info from fire's role

[Cephrir]

If scum have to get powers and one doesn’t I’d expect that power to be rather game important of some kind.

they got to choose one, is how i'm reading it

[Cephrir]

i wonder when people will stop pretending all town hoods and masonries are the same thing

[Cephrir]

i dont agree but i dont think theres any point in discussing it further right now

[Cephrir]

Does this strategy ever work for you or

[Cephrir]

Is this negging

[Cephrir]

Is this negging

It’s depressed Titus Which means whatever her alignment she’s just frustrated and throwing shit and praying versus being slow and methodical.

Where do you get depressed from "I'm the greatest, I already solved the game"

[Cephrir]

actually if you see me posting for the next half hour yell at me to stop i have more important things i need to deal with rn

ATE

I feel like that's just a useful self discipline tactic

[Cephrir]

...Is Misty widely scum read?

It's fun to just not read the game and say random shit

[Cephrir]

If you're expecting me to preflip Titus as scum you are going to be disappointed

[Cephrir]

If you're expecting me to preflip Titus as scum you are going to be disappointed

I am expecting you to be scum hunting

Preflip associations are how you make sure a read is sound

If you think someone is scum but have no partners your read is bad

If you’re not validating your reads you’re not hunting

So ergo everyone should be doing them

Relying on them extensively no but doing them yes

It’s like everyone decided to phone in Titus is the elim and we don’t have to talk anyone else now

And when imho she flips green the take away is “oh well”

I have a different approach to the game than you and I've been getting rather good results recently so how about not telling me how to play thanks

[Cephrir]

"disprove"

"With vca"

Sigh

[Cephrir]

I'M ON FIRE

I thought you didn't like fire

[Cephrir]

My vote is feeling very comfy.