Open 867: PYP: SEFD - Day Three

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Gamma >:(

[Dannflor]

omg hi nsg i forgot you replaced in

how are you doing

[Dannflor]

I vaguely like enchant's post

why is singling you out bad

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Gamma >:(

Also wtaf is this about???

I am sheeping enchant

[Dannflor]

Enchant has some vague nondescript beef with me, I would rather he actually speak his mind rather than just target me nonsensically

Is this an actual thing like out of game

I thought we were memeing

[Dannflor]

Then why would it be relevant to his alignment in this game

[Dannflor]

Then why would it be relevant to his alignment in this game

Where did I say it was?

Legit question ftr

Then why would it be relevant to his alignment in this game

Where did I say it was?

And no, don’t feel like it. Make it happen yourself, put your charisma to the test!

I mean, you didn’t, but you are acting like it is

Idk your vote and phrasing of not liking Enchant singling you out felt like you were pushing him for it?

this seems like a conversation to be saved for post game if it’s not relevant to his alignment

[Dannflor]

BASED OFF THE DRAFT I'D SAY ONE OR BOTH OF GAMMA/DANNFLOR + PENGUIN/JOHNNY/KITTY ARE SCUM. IF THIS DRAFT SYSTEM HAS BEEN RUN BEFORE I'D LOVE TO SEE WHAT NUMBERS WERE CHOSEN BY SCUM IN THE PAST.

Where are these assumptions stemming from

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Junkochan

[Dannflor]

so I'm a bit confused, how many people can have powers in this game?

why was this confusing to you?

[Dannflor]

I think this is something Gamma would react to as either alignment

what feels tvt about it

[Dannflor]

i think it would be hilarious if 3 scum picked 1 for the meme

[Dannflor]

scrrdbear why did you have some assumptions about where scum might be if you haven't already looked at past runs of the setup?

[Dannflor]

so I'm a bit confused, how many people can have powers in this game?

why was this confusing to you?

because im not sure if there can potentially be 1 of each of the power roles listed, let alone the pair part I'm counting them as 8 possible roles

or not.

because of theis scenario:

if I picked doctor and still became a townie, i know someone in the roster has doctor but they picked it before me, meaning I can pin point from my pov who might be a doctor and lean to believe them

does this make sense to you?

I am confused why this was not a question to the mod pregame

[Dannflor]

I can pin point from my pov who might be a doctor and lean to believe them

do you realize that a potential doctor (or any role) could be scum?

[Dannflor]

mm my heart is saying that Junko entering the game dumb telling to this extent is more town indicative

there is an off chance she thought she could take advantage of her extended absence from the site but this feels... a little too blatant?

maybe I'm reading too much into something that's just NAI

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Roden

[Dannflor]

KittyTacky if you think Gamma is being so weird why aren't you voting there

or voting anywhere for that matter

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Roden

Why?

I thought Roden's entrance most fit the bill of someone trying to look productive but whose posts didn't seem especially towny

[Dannflor]

later on we can get into the WIFOM of whether or not scum picked the same number (to which the answer is typically no) but for now it's probably a waste of attention.

isn't it always going to be a waste of time then? I don't really get what you mean here

also how did you get a town read out of NK15's 1 post

[Dannflor]

especially nsg

why especially nsg?

[Dannflor]

lol

[Dannflor]

VOTE: gamma

[Dannflor]

ah, I understand and I agree with that largely. the "get into the WIFOM" part made me raise an eyebrow as that seems contradictory and made me feel like you were just saying things to say things. I think I just misunderstood though

regarding NK15, I think it depends on what he does next. as it is, I don't think engaging in a specific part of scrrdbear's post is all that AI.

maybe this is best talked about once he posts more

[Dannflor]

Gamma let me ask you this

what justification are you actually expecting / would you be happy with from nsg or penguin?

like I feel you're overly worried about the seriousness of a page 5 wagon on you

[Dannflor]

do u have any thoughts on gamma porkens

[Dannflor]

i don't really agree it's likely nsg's like first read of the game is a super weak town read on her buddy

[Dannflor]

in fact i think the process is like very marginally town indicative for nsg even though i disagree

[Dannflor]

You don’t say anything about why that is town behavior. A scum would be just as capable of honestly doing all of those things without having to fake anything. A very comfortable move for scum.

But you are also basically saying I think he is town because he did this thing I think is more likely to come from town.

Then you shit on your own read.

VOTE: NK15 that’s a scum post.

Porkens I'm not getting why you jumped from "that's not a town post" to "that's a scum post"

I am equally incredulous of reading into it as a scum post

like, I think it's an easy scum entrance or it *could* be indicative of an underlying town thought process but I don't think there is enough information to make that judgement yet

Can you explain what's indicative about that post?

[Dannflor]

in fact i think the process is like very marginally town indicative for nsg even though i disagree

actually no

I think nsg will be very readable with time but her posts so far are like just Fine

[Dannflor]

porkens, were you fully caught up when you made 134?

[Dannflor]

i have a scum read on porkens

it is medium strong

[Dannflor]

hey junko just a heads up site culture has moved towards using words like "eliminate" or "yeet"

there's a rule against using "lynch"

I know it's just habit and you won't get like banned for forgetting once or twice but just a heads up

[Dannflor]

Junko do you any reads

[Dannflor]

have

do you have any reads

[Dannflor]

i have a scum read on porkens

it is medium strong

Please explain.

Penguin: ok sounds good.

i feel like the strength of your vote on NK15 and then you asking why hasn't not mafia showed up doesn't really match up with someone who hasn't caught up with the game? I asked about that because I find it suspect that you had no thoughts about the wagon on gamma until I asked you explicitly. and I find it vaguely partnery that once I asked you went back and like scum cased gamma post by post but remained on NK15 which I still don't understand why you think he is scum

also small thing but i dont really think you believe what you're saying about downplaying and i feel like if you were town you just would've admitted you were wrong even if it weakened your argument

[Dannflor]

also, thinking about it, Dannflor and nsg are sus for their handling of me so far
they should know how I'm liable to take early pressure, especially when it's seemingly unfounded

gamma you have huge emotional reactions as either alignment, no?

honestly if you're town I'd more expect scum to be in people explicitly avoiding your wagon (eg porkens)

I feel like as town though you still manage to keep your head on to a degree and ask meaningful questions. so far I'm not seeing where you're actually scum hunting on or off you wagon. the questions your asking don't seem relevant.

also like, shouldn't penguin be familiar with you too?

[Dannflor]

yeah we can drop it, it was just a very small feeling that probably wasn't worth bringing up

you might say I'm

downplaying it

[Dannflor]

is it me

[Dannflor]

Gamma…

You were scum in that game

[Dannflor]

i think any discussion about who or who might not have a role needs to stop immediately

[Dannflor]

Can you explain the point of this vote?

I thought you were the most likely to be scum at this point

[Dannflor]

I'D SAY PORKENS, ENCHANT AND JUNKO ARE TOWN. PENGUIN IS NULL CLOSER TO TOWN, DANNFLOR IS NULL CLOSER TO SCUM. GAMMA IS SCUM.

What's the reason for Junko town?

VOTE: NK15

why

[Dannflor]

Gamma…

You were scum in that game

That’s irrelevant
The point I’m making is that I tilt at early pushes sometimes

my problem is not your emotional reaction! I know you have strong emotional reactions as both alignments

I've played with you many many times

it's why I didn't think much of your OMGUS reaction to BEAR it seemed mostly in character

I just felt like you weren't genuinely looking for scum on your wagon along with you emotional reaction??

[Dannflor]

There’s a serious non rvs wagon on gamma.

Do you support it or not?
If you do, why not join it?
If you don’t, what’s the motive behind posting this?

this is like the towniest post I think you've made but I'm also wondering if you're partners

[Dannflor]

Can you explain the point of this vote?

I thought you were the most likely to be scum at this point

Is this your first time playing in this set up?

yes, why is this relevant

[Dannflor]

Yeah gamma is scummy.

Still not seeing it.

actually I take it back I think if gamma flips scum then I want to kill this more than anything

I think Porkens is playing a little too awkwardly for a buddy

and I'm doing bad bad pre-flip associative stuff right now I need to reset

Gamma did townier after the emotional posting wore off

[Dannflor]

Can you explain the point of this vote?

I thought you were the most likely to be scum at this point

Is this your first time playing in this set up?

yes, why is this relevant

What role do you think the player at the top of the draft should always take?

I have not given it much thought

I could see an argument for a lot of things

but I don't see it how it matters when you can just as easily be scum no matter your role

[Dannflor]

why does my page 5 scum read bother you so

[Dannflor]

I don't believe this thought process.

I have never been someone good at or even particularly interested in mechanics, which might be part of the disconnect here

probably best to drop this particular line, I'll ask about it later

[Dannflor]

Roden what's your read on Porkens

[Dannflor]

nsg what do you think about NK15 *now*

[Dannflor]

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Dannflor]

why does my page 5 scum read bother you so

"why me"

VOTE: Dann

Asking for a reason of a sus is different from a "why me".

what exactly is your read on me? or anyone not named Porkens for that matter

this reads like you want to show you don't agree with the vote but don't actually want to deter a wagon

[Dannflor]

You're null.

I actually do want to deter this wagon because Roden's actions around you feel shitty and in bad faith, IDK where you got that.

mmm I feel it's weird to want to deter a wagon on me but also have me as null

I think I'm coming around to Roden's fixation being on some idea of what correct play is that's going over my head, which is probably a little more likely to come from town

also I think in general scum tend to be less likely to just shut down interaction, mafia like to look conciliatory / open / reasonable

I haven't played with Roden a lot but I feel like I remember his scum game being closer to the latter

[Dannflor]

I have a super secret town read now

[Dannflor]

...what do you assume the reasoning to be?

[Dannflor]

yes sir

[Dannflor]

You're null.

I actually do want to deter this wagon because Roden's actions around you feel shitty and in bad faith, IDK where you got that.

mmm I feel it's weird to want to deter a wagon on me but also have me as null

Null = still more likely town than scum because there's more townies than scum.

No! Bad! null = scum because inevitably people *always* end up null reading scum

like without fail

i don't know why I'm trying to convince you to scum read me

[Dannflor]

I don’t know

I need to reread and haven’t had time to do so yet

I think in general the way he played around you was awkward regardless of your alignment but I haven’t decided if that’s actually scummy or not

Sorry bad answer I’ll reread soon

[Dannflor]

@mod V/LA until Sunday night

[Dannflor]

what changed your mind on junko

[Dannflor]

I’ll be home in a few hours to reread

[Dannflor]

I don't really think Gamma is scum

[Dannflor]

You're null.

I actually do want to deter this wagon because Roden's actions around you feel shitty and in bad faith, IDK where you got that.

mmm I feel it's weird to want to deter a wagon on me but also have me as null

Null = still more likely town than scum because there's more townies than scum.

No! Bad! null = scum because inevitably people *always* end up null reading scum

like without fail

i don't know why I'm trying to convince you to scum read me

What on God's green Earth is this post? OK you're scummy.
VOTE: Dannflor

can you explain what exactly you found scummy about this post

i can't tell if this hop on is too awkward to be scum

[Dannflor]

why did you think that you were my "secret scumread"? i feel like you're the type of player who feels like he's obviously playing his towngame when town (like me), but that impression could be wildly off. what's your evaluation of your play this game?

it is just not uncommon for people to say that and then have it be about me

and RC forever associating my name with deepwolf for a meme has made me somewhat sensitive to that sort of thing

was your secret scum read junko or did you just do that as a reaction test thing

I think I've been generally towny but I wouldn't say I'm out of my scum range yet

that being said I think only two of the votes on me are relatively towny votes

[Dannflor]

what's the other reason

[Dannflor]

BEAR I think you're stuck on like a page 5 read

[Dannflor]

I feel like the scummiest stuff from gamma could very easily come from him as either alignment

and the fact that he got into game solving mode rather than sticking with the bear vs. gamma dynamic for the AtE is very unlike scum!gamma

[Dannflor]

SHOULDN'T GAMMA AND DANNFLOR BE VOTING EACH OTHER IF THEY AREN'T SvS?

why on earth

[Dannflor]

I don't know who you are or how you play mafia SCRRRDBEAR but I wouldn't vote for someone I thought was town even if I was definitely going to die

[Dannflor]

I'm also not going to die here

[Dannflor]

then you're REALLY gonna have a field day with the wall I'm typing up

[Dannflor]

because part of it is a gamma town case

this seems very... level 0, BEAR

[Dannflor]

I would like Gamma to not die yes

I don't really want to talk about my read on you right now

[Dannflor]

Junko why is porkens scum

I don't really recall you ever elucidating reasons for that read

[Dannflor]

JOHNNY MIGHT BE OKAY, ACTUALLY.

can you explain this now

[Dannflor]

anyway I'm fully caught up.

It feels like not a lot happened since I stopped posting. I mean, objectively, nsg and Gamma both started pushing Junko, but other than that... The game state remained pretty much the same with me + Gamma as the top two wagons. Gamma tends towards survivalism as scum. But honestly, I don't think he's been that survivalistic this game. I know that seems contrary to his reaction to BEAR's push on him, but with some distance of his initial emotional reaction wearing off, I think Gamma's play has been a lot more curious and a lot less concerned with just getting votes off of him than I've seen of his scum play. I also kinda think that if Gamma was scum here he'd have found his way onto my wagon instead of trying to start a new one that had little to no support at the time.

I think most of the scum reads on Gamma are for his posts in the first like ~5 pages of the game which are admittedly Not Great Looks. But I don't think they are outside of his town range as far as strong emotional reactions though. I think posts 206, 319, and 340 read as pretty genuine attempts to read people outside of just focusing on the Gamma vs. BEAR dynamic. iirc Gamma would probably be milking that dynamic a lot more as scum for the "genuine" emotional reaction and I think now that the reaction has worn off he's pretty much entirely left it behind to sort the rest of the thread. and while it's certainly not unfakeable (none of those posts are like ground breaking), it's closer to the behavior I would expect from a town player under pressure early than a scum player

also lowkey I kinda want to town read Gamma linking me a scum game to show case his town meta

=====

I don't have too much to say about Penguin. I think his vote is one of the two not crappy votes on my wagon given his propensity for wagons. I also feel that scum!PenguinPower would like the idea of pocketing me more than he would like the idea of pressuring me. And I think town!PenguinPower would like the idea of pressuring me more than he would like the idea of pocketing me. I think PP pretty intentionally never elaborating is +town. I'd like to know his reason eventually but I'd like to think I have a general idea of what he's thinking this game

Overall the amount of straight up annoyance Penguin has shown towards the thread at large when trying to get information from people is probably +town. I don't think Penguin would have trouble joining in the chaos and making more jokey posts here and there as scum - whereas in this instance I feel like he's genuinely annoyed there isn't more content in this 20 page long game.

=====

Yume I have no idea. I have never played with this person before but the vibe I get is that this sort of play is not unusual. I don't know how much meta will help. I'll probably do my research eventually but I am Too Lazy right now. This occupies a Not Mafia place in my reads of needing significantly more time before I feel like I have enough content to actually pull out anything alignment indicative.

======

Porkens leans town. I feel like the overly confrontational almost... indignant? tone of 383 reads town. I think if my initial read of Porkens changing his read and being awkward about it was correct, scum!Porkens would be more reticent to just admit that. And I think in the end, regardless of Gamma's alignment, but particularly in a Gamma town world, the scum case into town read of Gamma by Porkens is a little too awkward. Like I don't really believe that Porkens is genuinely informed of Gamma's alignment. I guess it is possible I am too ready to town read the sassy defiance tone here, but it feels to me a lot more like a town player who is confident in having changing thoughts than self-conscious scum.

======

I don't particularly like NK15's defense of me and I like his push onto PenguinPower out of all my votes even less. Like, I don't think *anyone* with a modicum of experience with PenguinPower would scum read him for naked vote hopping on to a growing wagon. And then there's the fact that he doesn't really do anything with that defense beyond that. Like I don't get the sense that NK15 *actually* town reads me. Or if he does, it's not clear. There's no explanation of why I'm town, just why specific votes don't make sense. This is along the lines of what I'd expect from someone who knows I'm town.

I also think the focus on game thread health or whatever is like... not very genuine. 530 in particular seems feigned and LAMIST when NK15 hasn't exactly been posting cases on anyone in particular. Their biggest case is the fact that someone hasn't posted a case? I think it's a bit of projection to accuse scum of flying under the radar when NK15 is probably best described as doing just that this game.

======

I think nsg is probably town. I don't know I should probably have more paranoia here because polarized players can always change up their game but I just don't. nsg, I have a specific idea of you as scum that you tend to be... a lot more passive than your town game. I don't think it'd be inaccurate to say you probably don't enjoy playing scum? Or at least, you certainly don't enjoy it at anywhere the same level that you enjoy town. every time I've seen you as scum you've been a lot more passive and wanting to hang back. I guess that coincides with you lurking out in a lot of games but even when you are posting, it doesn't seem like you get in direct conflict very much at all. You like to just pick up town reads where you can and survive. I've only really seen you start to attack when you come under pressure.

Correct me on any of that if you feel that's an incorrect assessment. but long story short this game feels pretty similar to purgatory where you're a lot more aggressive and direct with pushing people's buttons and getting reactions to inform your reads. (I'm basing this off of Team mafia and several other games of yours that I've read)

basically, I just think nsg's townplay is a lot more dynamic and like, full of life than her scum game. she doesn't have her heart in her scum games. And I feel like there's a lot of little things this game like the Super Secret ScumRead or the town read on NK15 or making her own new push on Junko that indicate she does have her heart in this game

======

speaking of Junko, there is a part of me that just wants to sheep NSG here but I have my own pet scum read I'd rather case. I also think 323 is Not That Scummy. I don't really see any reason scum!Junko would have to need to hop off of Gamma. Unless she was planning to hop onto me because I'm the better elimination for whatever reason, but I don't really see that happening here. I took it more as a genuine moment of needing to reconsider the game thread.

however, I do think there are multiple moments of... what seems like trying too hard to look town. the cognitive load is one thing, the other are the multiple instances of trying to solve whole scum teams, which just doesn't seem like a natural way for a town player to think about the game?

@Junko, can you talk to me about what your read is on me right now? I'm wary that your reads seems to follow my early ones almost exactly and yet you haven't really tried to defend me or follow up on the wagon on me at all.

also like why do you keep throwing scum teams out there. it feels like kind of an unintuitive way to approach the game no? I know you're on V/LA right now but I'm also just generally curious where your head is at after rethinking Gamma and everything

======

Enchant idk ill try to read this later

508 I kinda thought was town but I have no good reason for that

======

KittyTacky's vote on me is one of the bad ones. I admit I have trouble reading this slot because he's seemingly the scummiest slot in the game every single game he is in. I think the defense of me by saying Roden was engaging with me in bad faith into voting me over... what? is a very ?????? progression. popping in to say "I stand by my reads" is awful after having explained like 0 reads.

I don't know this slot frustrates me and I'd happily wagon it. like I don't know what else to say about this slot other than it's scummy. I don't really know how to pull more reads out of KittyTacky that will help me town read them other than just wait and hope they start having some believable progressions. I guess the vote on Porkens was like fine. but other than that I just have a hard time believing the words typed by this cat.

======

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

okay so this is my pet scum read I'm really excited about

can someone not even case but just give me like the bulletpoints on dann scum, i'm waiting on a lot of content from him but don't really feel as though that warrants a vote yet

78 and 79 paint dann as this like, "I've got my shit together" kinda guy when it comes to setups and approaching townreads and scumreads, but then his approach to Porkens, nk15, and his general attitude toward power role discussion makes him look.... inconsistent. Like he's discussing things as they come up but doesn't have a core thread of scumhunting, or even truly critical thinking, underneath.

So I guess basically he looks like he's coasting? Add to that the complete lack of actual scummy behavior that I can see from Gamma or Porkin', and you land at my current belief which is that Dann is scum and completely satisfied with the current gamestate.

I'm pretty sure this is a post-hoc explanation to the vote on me. I don't think a townie reads the thread at the time of Johnny's vote on me and says that I'm coasting. I had like among the top posts in the game at the time and was probably the person with the most game related content in the thread (if I do say so myself). Sure maybe it's more accurate to say this after I've been V/lA for 3 days, but that came after Johnny's vote on me.

Putting aside the fact that I no longer scum read Gamma or Porkens, this is something that applies to like, a lot of people in the game that scum read one or both of these slots? I certainly wasn't original with that. It's also very strange to combine the coasting accusation with the "satisfied with the current gamestate" accusation when... if he's truly talking about the past three days, why on earth would I be satisfied with a gamestate that has me as a top wagon.

regarding the first paragraph... I have never been the Setup Guy. I will never be the Setup Guy. I think the two posts linked only paint me as the Setup Guy if you are searching for inconsistencies. This is just a very weird assumption to make. And I think comparing setup spec to scum hunting is also not a townie mindset. I think Johnny went and searched for reasons to scum read me after he was asked. I had thought his vote was towny at the time because it was just sheeping Roden. But I really don't think this is genuine.

I also have thought in general that the way he's approaching this game is not very curious. He doesn't really seem to care about what anyone's alignment is. If I look at 386, it feels like Johnny is viewing the game as categorizing people into boxes of whether it would look good to vote there or not. I don't necessarily take issue with the "good place or bad place to vote" sort of style, what is scummy is the focus on the optics.

Enchant and N_M are a more trollish flavor of penguin, not sure how to read and not really interested in voting.

I will if I have to tho.

The bolded in regards to slots like Enchant and NM just reads so LAMIST? Like Johnny is very aware pursuing these slots is too easy and wants to look good for not going for the LHF but also wants to keep that option open.

Yume is on some shit. I've never played with them (that I can remember) and normally I would try to pressure, but like they said the got a PR. Unsure how to proceed.

I also think the hedging on Yume because Yume claimed a role isn't really a town mindset. I don't think town should be acting "afraid" of killing roles in this setup. This feels like someone approaching the setup from the wrong side.

I think the read on me is the only actual read Johnny has given and I think it was made up far after the fact because Johnny realized his previous reads weren't doing it.

Dann has this aww shucks energy to him that comes across as just happy to be here. He acknowledges his lack of interest in engaging with mechanics to solve and just as recently as this page acknowledges the weakness of his vote.

like his read on me after his vote is not cohesive with his later explanation. I also think there is this very weird vibe with this read and continuing with his read on Roden where Johnny is playing the game as if he only wants to wagon non-PRs. I don't think town approaching this game would actually think that way. I think this is scum being hyper sensitive about their image and how they look voting places.

Johnny, if you're town, can you tell me if you have any strong reads on not me slots. 552 shows that you can pull corroborated reads out of the air that aren't just a hedge mess. what are your strongest town reads? I do not have a sense whether you genuinely town read Gamma + Porkens or whether you just want to keep defending them because of lack of scuminess. What are their towniest posts?

[Dannflor]

I would like to vote in Johnny/Kitty

Johnny I am much more excited about though

NK15 I don't think I have as good of a read on

[Dannflor]

i'm waiting on a lot of content from him

hi let me know what you think and respond to me please

[Dannflor]

KITTY, TOO, I THINK THEY ARE TRUSTWORTHY

why

[Dannflor]

is he traditionally no effort, I've never played with him

[Dannflor]

KittyTacky if you think Gamma is being so weird why aren't you voting there

or voting anywhere for that matter

1. Because I'm not sure if it's scummy.
2. Good question, doing a reread RN to determine a good vote.

HAS KITTY EVER WRITTEN A POST LIKE THIS AS SCUM?

Probably? It feels pretty performative

What part of it feels unlike scum!Kitty?

[Dannflor]

In your experience do scum have trouble townreading people? This seems like a silly question/ layup if you actually think I'm scum. Scum Johnny would have 8 townreads right now, just cuz I would know I'm right.

It's not that I think you have a lack of town reads, I just found your reads on Gamma/Porkens must interesting because they are the names that have come up most in your ISO except for me. It's mostly that I feel like I don't have a good sense for *any* of your reads besides myself

I mean, I have a conception of who you would vote for, but not who you think is scum? Except for me recently

It makes me feel like you only decided I was actually scummy when you wanted to justify your vote. idk, do you feel like you have other scum reads at this point?

[Dannflor]

the scum teams(?) I posted are joky kinda not post, you don't seem to care much about setup but they are actually based on what everyone picked, you can get your own idea if you put a bit of time into checking the numbers

now I just gave you a better example of what I'm sitting on right now in 598

This feels like a shit ton of WIFOM

I know it's the kind of thing BEAR is interested in but I definitely subscribe more to the NSG idea that this sort of shit is just trying to divine tea leaves needlessly

can you elaborate more on your scum read of porkens now that I've explained how I got to a town read? like what specific parts of porkens' iso bother you most?

[Dannflor]

KittyTacky's vote on me is one of the bad ones. I admit I have trouble reading this slot because he's seemingly the scummiest slot in the game every single game he is in. I think the defense of me by saying Roden was engaging with me in bad faith into voting me over... what? is a very ?????? progression. popping in to say "I stand by my reads" is awful after having explained like 0 reads.

I don't know this slot frustrates me and I'd happily wagon it. like I don't know what else to say about this slot other than it's scummy. I don't really know how to pull more reads out of KittyTacky that will help me town read them other than just wait and hope they start having some believable progressions. I guess the vote on Porkens was like fine. but other than that I just have a hard time believing the words typed by this cat.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS AI

yeah maybe

I don't have much faith in my ability to read kittytacky

if you feel like you are an expert on KittyTacky's meta I would appreciate a breakdown

[Dannflor]

I think Kitty tried to pull a fast one by rule-of-three’ing Junko in with me and Johnny as a townread

This is worth remembering

I don't really understand this

is it just a pre flip associative between Junko and Kitty

[Dannflor]

This feels shitty of me to not have taken into account. I genuinely forgot and don't mean to pressure you for having limited access, I apologize.

See, I didn't really think you were? also you don't have to apologize, unless you are scum and it was malicious

But you were asked to explain your vote from several pages ago

and it feels like you decided I was scum after that?

As for this, you're kinda right? I've had the icks about your slot for a while now and I was trying to put it into words. I'm not really a "case" guy.

can you explain more what your initial thought process was in voting me after Roden? if you remember?

[Dannflor]

I mean I was being a little facetious with the no bad

statistically once people have a list of town > scum then scum is usually more often found in the null reads, outside of players with exceptional read rates

[Dannflor]

I'm finding it a little hard to engage with this game.

Ask me anything. Reads, mech spec, anything. I want to engage with someone.

your read on Johnny would be helpful

[Dannflor]

hmmmm

[Dannflor]

who do you think is individually the most likely to flip scum junko

[Dannflor]

do you have thoughts on anything else that's been said recently?

it's not like there hasn't been content

[Dannflor]

Junko have you self voted as town before

[Dannflor]

I'd like nsg to check in before killing Junko

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

I have cooled off somewhat this read after sleeping on it though and seeing Johnny's response

I don't really have a clear picture of where you've landed on your read in me Johnny though, if you could elaborate on that for me

[Dannflor]

it is frustrating that it feels like half the player list is only half paying attention to this game

[Dannflor]

who said roden was town

[Dannflor]

I mean we can wait another day or so just to make sure some people can weigh in

I don't think we can really *harm* the gamestate any more

[Dannflor]

I think we can revisit Roden tomorrow

there's a reason I didn't mention him in my reads list

[Dannflor]

I really just want to talk to NSG before EoD but I won't be like, distraught, if someone hammers before them

I get there's not a lot of motivation right now

[Dannflor]

can we let junko live for that post

[Dannflor]

fight with penguin was very bad vibes

it's pretty awkward for a transition but idk

I should probably read gamma AGAIN

I'm haven't been town reading him/her for the AtE stuff though

[Dannflor]

right now in this very moment I think I'd most want to kill VOTE: nk15

[Dannflor]

I don't particularly like NK15's defense of me and I like his push onto PenguinPower out of all my votes even less. Like, I don't think *anyone* with a modicum of experience with PenguinPower would scum read him for naked vote hopping on to a growing wagon. And then there's the fact that he doesn't really do anything with that defense beyond that. Like I don't get the sense that NK15 *actually* town reads me. Or if he does, it's not clear. There's no explanation of why I'm town, just why specific votes don't make sense. This is along the lines of what I'd expect from someone who knows I'm town.

[Dannflor]

can we please *not* wagon PP

regardless of anything else that composition does not inspire confidence in me

[Dannflor]

I am explicitly scum reading NK15

[Dannflor]

NM and Enchant I'm not scum reading exactly no

I just don't think their votes are particularly likely to be accurate

and I don't think the reasons for scum reading PP are good

[Dannflor]

I just don't think their votes are particularly likely to be accurate

Like you are accurate on Day 1.

I think I am a little bit more accurate than average

but mostly because I generally don't meme vote

[Dannflor]

would you randomly vote nk15

[Dannflor]

why was there 8 minutes between those two posts yume

[Dannflor]

nsg's scum equity does go up a lot if she actually replaces out here

[Dannflor]

I would rather wait and see though with her

[Dannflor]

Gamma I don't understand how you're villainizing Penguin but also saying he's sidelining

I mean I think he's been a pretty big driving force at least recently especially compared to like half the game

[Dannflor]

I have nowhere near enough town reads right now

[Dannflor]

Why?

Because your “vaguely resembles frenimies” is actual bullshit so I’d like an actual stance.

I don’t really have a defined opinion on your play this game, I felt similar in Frenemies where you flipped scum
You feel very sideline-y

that does feel like a backpedal

[Dannflor]

nk15 has pretty much exclusively popped in to either defend themselves or place an icky vote

I think they fit the label of sideliney a lot

[Dannflor]

VOTE: NSG

Seems like she's trying to wait out the elim. NK15 feels pretty clearly town.

this is an interesting post

[Dannflor]

nsg tends to be low activity

i don't know how you distinguish intentionally waiting out the elim from normal flaking

[Dannflor]

@mod V/LA til Sunday night

nsg I won’t be around much this weekend but I’d like to find a time we can both be online to talk

[Dannflor]

Kitty what happened to your scum read on me

[Dannflor]

I think I am a little bit more accurate than average

but mostly because I generally don't meme vote

So anyway, Roden is mafia.

VOTE: Roden

Yeah I feel BAD okay

[Dannflor]

Don't worry, i forgive you I think I am a little bit more accurate than average but mostly because I generally don't meme a vote, it's nothing. Everyone can be wrong.

yes i Deserve This

[Dannflor]

Actually how, given I voted NK15 only out of tilt, I still thought he was town

[Dannflor]

VOTE: nsg come and play please

[Dannflor]

Roden, have you played with NSG before

[Dannflor]

I don't really think scum needed to force themselves onto the NK15 wagon or that hammering it is necessarily scum indicative

I mean maybe if scum is in like Gamma and scum wanted to make sure a miselim went through but I felt like NK15 going was pretty much inevitable

I am more interested in the slots that intentionally kept their hands clean

[Dannflor]

I feel like I shouldn't be town reading Penguin so hard but I'm finding it hard not to be pocketed by the absolutely incredulous tone he has in every single post

[Dannflor]

@Dannflor: could you give some thoughts on NM and enchant, as well as diving into your feelings on nsg?

enchant... I mildly town read him waving NK15's flip in my face. I feel there is less dopamine in doing that if you are informed of everyone's alignment already. if I'm being intellectually honest I should say I don't really know but my gut is leaning town here

I have no feelings on not mafia and I'm not sure why you would think I would. Why did you want to hear from me on these names in particular

NSG, I was town reading until she flaked out of the game, which unfortunately matches with her scum meta. I think her posting has been markedly better than what I've seen of her scum game and she is not unknown to flake as town, but until she comes back I don't feel I can keep playing like I *want* her to be town. especially because I was almost certainly town reading scum on D1

can you give me a lowdown on who you are scum reading right now and like... how your thoughts have changed from D1? I see you poking Yume, do you think that is highly likely to be productive? that feels like a... luke warm push to me. What are you most passionate about right now

[Dannflor]

dann on a re-read what changes on your aprettiation of the game in 600? as it felt like nothing changes from there all the way to nk15's lim

uh since that post I think my read on johnny has pretty much flipped. I have cooled off on Kitty some too. I still have to actually reread reread but that won't happen tonight since it's 1am

but I think I need to seriously reevaluate especially within the pool of you/gamma/nsg

[Dannflor]

Also I'm not gonna vote Gamma today barring something wild

Johnny can you elaborate on this like you elaborated on your read of me that one time

[Dannflor]

can you give me a lowdown on who you are scum reading right now and like... how your thoughts have changed from D1? I see you poking Yume, do you think that is highly likely to be productive? that feels like a... luke warm push to me. What are you most passionate about right now

I think the most notable shift for me is I have shifted from thinking Junko is scum to thinking there’s one between her and nsg. As for my other SRs, I have a good number of low confidence SRs, and the read questions are meant to home in on things that I find concerning in some manner. For instance, my question about Enchant’s read on you was driven by him seeming to imply he townread you EoD1, but in his readlist you were neutral.

so why is yume the best push for you out of everyone

[Dannflor]

I don't think I have unless it was with a mystery alt. If you're asking if I'm taking meta into account, no I'm not.

basically, I'd be more suspicious about your case if you had

nsg is known to go through spurts of inactivity as both alignments

*intentional lurking* is a scum tell though if I remember Team Mafia correctly

[Dannflor]

you town read kitty tacky?

[Dannflor]

,,,who is mad at you

you have like one vote

[Dannflor]

why do you not have a reaction to anything else

[Dannflor]

I think I'm losing my sanity

[Dannflor]

im getting the icky because the one time i played with scum nsg was tm2020 where nsg had like 17 posts across two weeks and was just clearly not interested in the game

i got excited earlier when it seemed like nsg was interested in this game and had things like super secret scumreads or whatever going on but

[Dannflor]

porkens big overreaction to like 2 votes but I don't necessarily think that's Scummy

seems probably bad to claim vig as scum?

[Dannflor]

okay but like

why does that matter

[Dannflor]

or kittytacky but that might just be my pet scumread

[Dannflor]

did you consider shooting a slot that seemed unlikely to be readable at any point

[Dannflor]

I'm not buying this game

[Dannflor]

I mean roden opened pushing nsg today

[Dannflor]

We playing what ifs now?

Let's just leash them?

this feels like the most reasonable post

[Dannflor]

roden what exactly is the problem if we leash porkens tonight and revisit this tomorrow

I guess worst case scenario porkens uses his vig to take out someone town read like Penguin but then we just have conf scum

[Dannflor]

Game state suggests that most people believe that Porkens is more likely to be a scum-siding townie than actually just scum.

i do unfortunately think this is just an example of town getting distracted by a townie doing outrageous things

as nsg once said ironically

[Dannflor]

That's why I think Porkens is just scum who's trying to gambit here do scum knows if they can shoot me tonight.

Like I don't know this makes sense only if Porkens was ever at any point in danger today

was he? was he really? his claim was driven purely by emotion

[Dannflor]

can someone not even case but just give me like the bulletpoints on dann scum, i'm waiting on a lot of content from him but don't really feel as though that warrants a vote yet

reading back this post gives me the heebie jeebies

I think I just want to kill the slot that hasn't posted in 8 days

I think if town!nsg had come back to the game overnight she actually would've been excited to share thoughts or catch up or something at daybreak

scum!nsg is more likely to just come back out of obligation and then flake agian

[Dannflor]

Town

Gamma
Penguin
Enchant
NM
Dann
Junko
Roden
Yume
NSG
Kitty

Scum

VOTE: Kitty

i only resent a little bit that NM is higher than me here

but yes i would also kill kitty

[Dannflor]

I just had ScumVig conditioned out of me hahaha.

this is like the first post of Kitty's I kinda want to town read even though it's for Bad Reasons

[Dannflor]

I don't think I've ever seen Gamma do so much Mediation Posting before

[Dannflor]

Gamma's new avatar makes me want to town read her more

he shoudl be banned for out of game influence

[Dannflor]

mmmmmmm

someone said junko/nsg probably isn't a thing

I think I disagree

[Dannflor]

I think the game state at the time made sense for a bus, and i think the early interactions are a lil awkward

eh I don't actually wanna case it right now though I think I'm getting away with myself when we haven't hit red yet

[Dannflor]

I don't really think nsg intentionally lurked out EoD regardless of her alignment

I do think her coming back but not Coming Back is a bad sign though

[Dannflor]

Hello everyone! I hope you brought your shades because I'm ready to shine a bright light on this game! B-)

is there an eta on this bright light or

[Dannflor]

I imagine Gamma has a spreadsheet open right now and psychological profiles on all of us that he's filling out

[Dannflor]

Johnny why are you voting Kitty over NSG when NSG was second to bottom on your list and the wagons are the way that they are

[Dannflor]

Star how are you reading Roden as you catch up

[Dannflor]

the way star wants to collect town reads is cute and makes me want to think they are on the side of the angels

[Dannflor]

mm but i can't really town read eternal catch up content (recommended by doctors as the easiest type of content for scum to produce!!)

I don't think asking questions about posts from the first five pages of the game like in 1292 is like actually helping anyone

[Dannflor]

Star honestly I'd rather maybe you start with this day and and go back to catch up as time allows

I feel like knowing how you feel about current wagons and Things will be more revealing of your alignment than anything you have to say about D1

[Dannflor]

I'm not making demands lol

Just a request

idk personally I don't find catching up posting to be all that useful or illuminating but I won't throw a fit

[Dannflor]

VOTE: gamma

[Dannflor]

VOTE: star power

[Dannflor]

gamma i feel like you don't actually care about poking yume

[Dannflor]

okay but then like you aren't campaigning for votes there

it looks like you're just hanging out

[Dannflor]

the general contentment with how things are right now gives me the creeps

[Dannflor]

enchat no_mafia and yume are wildcards but I'm leaning towards they just being town

this makes me queasy

[Dannflor]

it just feels dead

granted this game has always felt dead so I probably shouldn't read into that

[Dannflor]

junko why do you scum read me exactly

or is it a lack of town read, and if so what is missing

[Dannflor]

kinda feels like yume is town if star power and/or porkens ends up being scum

[Dannflor]

I mean like

what has you uneasy

can you articulate that at all

[Dannflor]

I think if I were to hipfire 360 noscope yolo a scum team right now

Johnny/Gamma/StarPower

and then I'm probably just wrong on Kitty

[Dannflor]

like for me porkens claim is so unlikely that it probably is, yet you are like oh ya that makes perfect sense

just as an example

you might favor this nsg quote: "The error that most consistently loses towns games is focusing on the townies who do outrageous things rather than the silently scummy people."

[Dannflor]

I'm suspicious of the slots just posting to post this phase that seem to want to be active but don't seem to actually want to DO anything even though there is a lot that has happened today that you should be pretty invested in if you're town

[Dannflor]

no

not lurkers

I would not be surprised if there is one scum in the lurkers

I mean people who are around but not AROUND yknow

like imo johnny and somewhat gamma this phase. What do they actually want. I cannot tell

[Dannflor]

policy lims are gross and those types of slots I think can be resolved before end game through PoE or vig shots

that's not what I mean when I say silently scummy

[Dannflor]

like Porkens made this huge big splash for what reason

what was it prompted by

it's such an unintuitive gambit if scum because like he was never in danger!! I know scum like to be nonsensical and shit and you shouldn't read scum by what they would "intellectually do"

but I have found generally town are likely to crack under little to no pressure way more often than scum who try extra hard to seem cool and unbothered

[Dannflor]

I'm not trying to discourage you I'm trying to have a conversation

I don't get this reaction

but I'll take the star power vote

[Dannflor]

idk maybe I'm wrong on Porkens but I think it's correct to deal with that tomorrow if I am

we should decide on a leash target though

my hero heart says gamma/johnny but my brain says kitty or like not mafia

[Dannflor]

kitty or nm is probably correct as neither is likely to get more readable at this point in the game

[Dannflor]

like Porkens made this huge big splash for what reason

what was it prompted by

it's such an unintuitive gambit if scum because like he was never in danger!! I know scum like to be nonsensical and shit and you shouldn't read scum by what they would "intellectually do"

but I have found generally town are likely to crack under little to no pressure way more often than scum who try extra hard to seem cool and unbothered

you are overstimating people

maybe

[Dannflor]

I am not scum

[Dannflor]

Why did you claim so early Porkens?

I just wanted to nip this “lol porkens scum” no sense in the bud. Winning for me means getting able to shoot my gun. That will make this game fun for me. I didn’t have the patience to let the wagon run on. WILD CARD BABY

the "I just want to shoot my gun" angle feels so bold

[Dannflor]

he does he dies

[Dannflor]

kitty or nm is probably correct as neither is likely to get more readable at this point in the game

why no yume?

throw yume in there too

I was trying to keep it as narrow as possible

[Dannflor]

that's fine

[Dannflor]

Can people explain the Star wagon to me? I’m getting town vibes off of both slots.

mostly nsg has a history of flaking as scum

well she flakes as both alignments but more frequently as scum

and I'm especially unenthused by her coming back and then not actually coming back

[Dannflor]

actually, can you explain why OUT OF ALL OF THOSE NAMES you particularly picked jhonny?

I also want to know this

[Dannflor]

This is in my limpool now, jokes aside.

what is your limpool

[Dannflor]

Star Power I'd love to talk but only once you are caught up

[Dannflor]

if it's kitty/nsg + like yume or nm I will throw myself into the abyss

[Dannflor]

I still like my hero solve

[Dannflor]

ah yes

for i am multitudes

[Dannflor]

And so is PenguinPower?

Can you uh explain how I'm supposed to read this lol

[Dannflor]

in what universe is Penguin scum without Roden

[Dannflor]

Roden claimed an inno check on Penguin

the only way that is not real is if Roden is lying and scum and Penguin is also scum

[Dannflor]

Hmmm