Open 867: PYP: SEFD - Day Three

[northsidegal]

hey all, nice to be back after so long.

VOTE: gamma emerald

agree with dann that junko's (for lack of a better term) dumbtelling about the setup is probably just way more likely to be genuine town than faked. it's possible that scum just didn't discuss much at all pre-game and the confusion still persisted, but unlikely. also townreading NK15, surprisingly.

[northsidegal]

by the way, i think trying to divine the tea leaves and read who's scum from the number picks is generally a fool's errand this early in the game. later on we can get into the WIFOM of whether or not scum picked the same number (to which the answer is typically no) but for now it's probably a waste of attention.

[northsidegal]

Enchant always picks 1

this is false, but there is this from a previous game:

Subject: Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [scum pt]

Let's pick same number (which is common one, not 420) so people think we are not aligned lol

which for now means basically nothing, but is worth putting in the back pocket, so to speak.

[northsidegal]

by the way, i think trying to divine the tea leaves and read who's scum from the number picks is generally a fool's errand this early in the game. later on we can get into the WIFOM of whether or not scum picked the same number (to which the answer is typically no) but for now it's probably a waste of attention.

Yeah I feel like scum might very well have picked whatever would confuse town the most.

i mean i think this is exactly the kind of tea leaf divining attempt that i was talking about

[northsidegal]

Before things go to far, just wanna mention to not let Penguin or especially nsg slide without justifying their votes on me

why especially me?

and why direct other people to do this and not just do it yourself?

[northsidegal]

later on we can get into the WIFOM of whether or not scum picked the same number (to which the answer is typically no) but for now it's probably a waste of attention.

isn't it always going to be a waste of time then? I don't really get what you mean here

also how did you get a town read out of NK15's 1 post

it doesn't seem that hard to understand, honestly. later in the game when we actually have a few flips we can probably make more definitive statements (or at the very least more informed statements) about the position of scum within the number picks. i guess to be fair i said "later on we can get into the WIFOM" when really what i just meant is later on we can get into the subject of the number picks at all, not necessarily just the subject of whether scum repeated their picks (to which again the answer is basically always: no they didn't).

what's your interpretation of NK15's one post? do you think it's just NAI?

[northsidegal]

seems a little bizarre

[northsidegal]

do you think scrrrdbear is stupid town or scum?

[northsidegal]

granted, i am pretty

washed up

rusty, it's been quite a while since i've played with nk15 and he was always pretty hard to read, but i feel like his one post is already somewhat town indicative.

I'D SAY PORKENS, ENCHANT AND JUNKO ARE TOWN. PENGUIN IS NULL CLOSER TO TOWN, DANNFLOR IS NULL CLOSER TO SCUM. GAMMA IS SCUM.

What's the reason for Junko town?

i'm of the belief that someone singling out one read from a set of reads and asking for justification for that is probably more likely to come from town. i think that it's indicative of a genuine underlying thought process: as though one has read through the thread, can at least see the justification for all of the rest of the reads, but can't see the reasoning for one of them. i imagine that scum trying to ask a question just to ask a question would be less likely to single out a single read from a set of them and more likely to respond to a post with basically only one point in it.

it's not the strongest read of all time, but i still think that it's indicative.

[northsidegal]

saying that it's an outright townread would be too strong, but like i said i think it's at least town-indicative.

[northsidegal]

In fact I think it’s odd that you town lean that. Your explanation that you think it shows a town mindset doesn’t really hold water for me. Why would that come from town? Your explanation states:

“as though one has read through the thread, can at least see the justification for all of the rest of the reads, but can't see the reasoning for one of them. i imagine that scum trying to ask a question just to ask a question would be less likely to single out a single read from a set of them and more likely to respond to a post with basically only one point in it.“

You don’t say anything about why that is town behavior. A scum would be just as capable of honestly doing all of those things without having to fake anything. A very comfortable move for scum.

But you are also basically saying I think he is town because he did this thing I think is more likely to come from town.

Then you shit on your own read.

VOTE: NK15 that’s a scum post.

i do say why i think it's town behavior: because i think that it's indicative of someone reading the thread and genuinely having their own thoughts. scum is "capable" of doing anything that town can do, of course: it's a question of probability, and my evaluation is that the probability that town asks that question is (even if slightly!) higher than that for scum. i didn't "shit on" my own read, i'm trying to be clear about the exact degree to which i think things and not overstate anything.

it feels like the criticism you're making of my read could be applied to basically any read ever. oh, you think that that action is towny because it's more likely to come from town? well, yeah, that's kinda how this game works.

[northsidegal]

4. You did downplay your own read - we can agree on that. I think that’s scummy because it’s a good setup for having your read proved wrong. I can see scum motivation there. What would the town motivation be?

i didn't "downplay" anything and if you think that i did you quite simply aren't reading anything that i'm saying. i try to be clear about the strength or relative lack thereof when it comes to my reads at all times – if you think that it's more likely that i'm "setting myself up to have a read proven wrong" when nk15 has literally only made one single post than that i'm just being clear about exactly what i think, i'm not really sure what to say. being clear about the lack of strength of a read isn't "downplaying".

[northsidegal]

if you have a read that isn't very strong and you make that clear, what would you call that?

[northsidegal]

okay, i guess we just have a different understanding of that word. to me saying something is "downplaying" has a pretty intrinsic negative connotation of something being bad and you attempting to make it look less bad, when i guess you don't think that's the case.

[northsidegal]

i have a super secret scumread

who can guess who the super secret scumread is

[northsidegal]

36 hour prods? what is the world coming to

catching up now

[northsidegal]

that was both faster than i expected and changed my reads less than i expected

VOTE: junkochan

[northsidegal]

323 is a super scummy hop-off, and cognitive load tell (aka NSG tell™) is real

Spoiler:

The number had to be between 0 and 14, it's in the rules

Could you point out for me where it says that?

once alignments have been dealt out, each player must send a (whole, positive) number back to the mod, with the lowest unique number winning the draft.

Google: Positive numbers are greater than 0 and located to the right of 0 on a number line. Negative numbers are less than 0 and located to the left of 0 on a number line. The number zero is neither positive nor negative.

Idk man this is either a stupid scum slip or a stupid Town "play"

Thinking about it i don't think the mod would say 0-14

I mean, that would be lying to one of the players about the rules

[northsidegal]

what changed your mind on junko

the "dumbtell" or whatever was always going to be just a minor note, behavior always trumps random little things like that and i think junko has actually been playing decently scummy for a while

[northsidegal]

why did you think that you were my "secret scumread"? i feel like you're the type of player who feels like he's obviously playing his towngame when town (like me), but that impression could be wildly off. what's your evaluation of your play this game?

[northsidegal]

Why is Gamma scum, cow

you can't talk to junkochan like that

[northsidegal]

(that was the joke)

[northsidegal]

Can you please explain this in a bit more detail?

the basic idea for those unfamiliar is that playing scum or just in general lying is a lot more cognitive stress / a lot more of a cognitive load than playing town is, and one consequence of this is that someone may be less likely to pick up on humor, and thus will respond to a joke completely seriously or misinterpret what someone's saying. (ironically enough, exactly like you do right there)

it is also a trademarked tell of NSG incorporated and every time you use it in a game you must give me credit or else receive a cease and desist from my lawyers

[northsidegal]

(by "cease and desist" and "laywers" i mean "brick through the window" and "lawyers")

[northsidegal]

i mean, obviously it's not so simple as anyone who misses a joke = instant scum, but in general i've found the tell to be a decent indicator for something to pay attention to when broadly forming reads

[northsidegal]

can i assume by the way that you're talking to me and about my vote / scumread on you that you think that i'm town?

[northsidegal]

Also the fact that You drew that conclusion from me but fail to SEE that gamma's reaction is weird from an uninformed Town pov is mindblowing to me

Or at least consider it

can you point me towards where you got this impression of what i think?

[northsidegal]

(by "cease and desist" and "laywers" i mean "brick through the window" and "lawyers")

spot on

[northsidegal]

Oh wait no I’m not. VOTE: nk15

That’s better.

feels a little ambitious to try to start this wagon at this point in the day

[northsidegal]

can someone not even case but just give me like the bulletpoints on dann scum, i'm waiting on a lot of content from him but don't really feel as though that warrants a vote yet

[northsidegal]

because i feel a lot better about the two competing wagons to dann and that makes me somewhat suspicious of it

[northsidegal]

386 COULD BE SCUMMY? I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO READ JOHNNY? I'M DOWN TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT JOHNNY AND JUNKO AFTER GAMMA GETS FLIPPED.

any particular reason for gamma over junko today? you were saying a lot early in the game and i kinda expected that energy to continue but i feel like you've been a lot quieter, have you caught up fully or mostly just been skimming?