Mini 2284: The Thing Anonymous [Day 2]

[Lars~]

I haven't seen it either. I heard it's based on the hit game Among Us.

VOTE: Windows

[Lars~]

I wanted to watch the movie so that I could better understand my character in order to portray him properly, but unfortunately I have learned that to truly be Lars, I would need to

Spoiler: spoiler for the first 10 minutes of the thing

scream a few sentences in Norwegian and then get shot in the head and die

so out of protest, I will not be watching the movie, and will instead be coming up with a new characterization of my own design for Lars. Please wait.

[Lars~]

I wanted to watch the movie so that I could better understand my character in order to portray him properly, but unfortunately I have learned that to truly be Lars, I would need to

Spoiler: spoiler for the first 10 minutes of the thing

scream a few sentences in Norwegian and then get shot in the head and die

so out of protest, I will not be watching the movie, and will instead be coming up with a new characterization of my own design for Lars. Please wait.

What do you mean man?

We can totally make that happen.

I'd rather not, thanks! Don't worry though, I'm working on it.

[Lars~]

Ok. I think I have it. Here we go.


ahem.


~

hewwo!!! （＾・ω・＾✿）

my name is lars but u can call me larsy warsy! im so excited to meet all of u! uwu antarctic research stations are my favorite. im here to find the imposters and take them all out!! will u pwease join me?

so far i trust fuchs the most cause he made a funny joke :3

i also really really want to twust norris cause i like that he's getting things moving, but i don't cause 30 seems like he could be trying a little too hard (≈≧ܫ≦≈)

clark... talking for the sake of talking, might be sus, might just be friendly. i think it's sus :3

VOTE: Clark

[Lars~]

hsialsrbbeftcaglutrcbostfotsatdadayasacsfttgrtrtmfttsptbiwtlaitwdalutfctootfhtwb

Head spinning incessantly, Angel looked stoic, resolute, betrayed by each falling tear. Crying again, gaze laboriously unwavering, thoughts repressed. Crying because of suffering twice forgotten over time, suffering always that dies and decays and yet always still above consciousness, suffering from the time given reluctantly to rich terrible men from the towers, suffering pretending to be immortal wisdom. The last Angel in the world, dying alone, looked up, took flight, careening towards oblivion, only to find himself tainted with blood.

[Lars~]

I mean you can, but it just feels over cautious

This feels like shading for something that's a lose-lose for Copper. However, I agree with the sentiment in the sense that Copper (and Clark for that matter) both have an over-explainy, formal kind of tone that I'd put as +Scum.

I agree with this and I think Copper's 79 is pretty awkward and self-conscious.

I like 105 from Nauls because it calls out something that I saw as well, and the explanation is close to my own thought process that I didn't go into detail on.

I don't like 109 from Norris at all. It feels like reaching for a reason to make Windows' post more of a big deal than it is.

I still trust Fuchs. I trust Bennings. I might trust Blair and Nauls.

I don't trust Clark, Copper, or Norris.

[Lars~]

I am suspicious of Bennings

why? I liked their posts so far

[Lars~]

VOTE: Norris

[Lars~]

Until someone just broke their code, it actually seemed like a pretty full proof way to deal with the issue

I didn't break their code, but I guess if it was convincing to others then it's effectively the same result

[Lars~]

2) I dislike 28 because I don’t think it says much of anything for calling tbh “interesting”. I don’t get the sense Clark cared much for the question he asked.

disagree, i very much like Clark as of right now. The questions theyre asking seem very newbish by nature, more like they care about seeing thought processes more than anything.
I don't expect them to really go anywhere with it, if they do ill be surprised.
Maybe im just a softie but i tr the newbie playstyle.

May I interest you in a windows vote instead?

I'm somewhat puzzled by how you could care enough of a silly little read i just let fly into the wind, I'm not even pushing it or even fully sticking to it - I'm just stating my first thoughts when I read a post but apparently its so criminal. If you would prefer it, I can very much bite my tongue and just not share thoughts at all? I would think I'm a pretty good troller.

Your second post here really downplays the significance of your read. The language you used originally, even encouraging people to vote elsewhere, sounds a lot more confident than "a silly little read". This is a weird response to someone questioning why you would have that confidence while also saying you didn't read most of his posts. In fact, I think this whole read is just made up.

This is a very interesting take, and I'm pretty sure 28 belies that they are not new

I also strongly dislike their response to the wagon on them

I skipped over a bunch of posts and the one post i did see reminded me of a newb style.

Which one post did you see? It couldn't have been 28 since you're dismissing this criticism by implying you skipped that one. Although you were originally replying to a specific point about 28 and saying you disagree with it, so. kinda strange

The only other ones with questions are 53 and 58 (rhetorical). What about these posts did you think were "very newbish by nature, more like they care about seeing thought processes more than anything"? And why was that enough to "very much like Clark"?

I think the only one that fits the description of "more like they care about seeing thought processes" is 28, but that one doesn't seem newbish at all, and implies that they have some experience.

[Lars~]

Does it matter?

Yes, answer the question. Overexaggerating your confidence on an early read is one thing, making a specific statement about a reason for a read and being unable to back up or support where that thought came from is another.

Town can make up reads or make up confidence levels, but town don't make up thoughts. It came from somewhere, so tell me where.

[Lars~]

Norris is responding this way because they know that the answer, which is "clearly obvious", would not be satisfying because there is a clear contradiction in their original statements. Giving an answer only for it to be picked apart further would weaken their position and keep them on the back foot.

Responding by refusing to answer and trolling is a way to attempt to regain the upper hand in a lost situation while also distracting from it, hoping that people will see the defiance as towny and think "well, scum would obviously try to appease and get townread, right?". Call the bluff. There's no reason for town to behave this way.

[Lars~]

I asked you in a clear and straightforward way to explain your thought process and your reasoning behind your reads. That's not hostility. If that makes you unwilling to play the game, I don't know what to tell you.

[Lars~]

GTH Norris is prob town here based on reaction. Not answering the questions purposefully seems like the harder route to go for scum here than just coming up with some bullshit, I think?

I think this reaction is why they did it. Coming up with some bullshit is easier, but it's less likely to get them anywhere because it's unlikely to be believable. See 181. The most important question is not whether this approach is the most likely one for scum to take (it's not, it's unexpected, which is part of why it's good). The question that matters is, why would they do this as town?

and I don't think their emotional trajectory from taunting ("do something about it") to trolling to upset makes sense, so I think it's more likely to be faked.

[Lars~]

I do agree with that. I think if Norris is town then that vote looks pretty bad. I'm giving it a pass for now because I don't think Norris is town.

[Lars~]

I was interrogating them until they started trolling and refused to answer. At that point, I felt like I knew exactly what they were doing, and also that it was probably going to work. That was why I thought the most important thing for me to do was try to get others to see what I was seeing instead.

I was trying to show you why Norris' actions don't make sense as town and explaining what their motivations would be as scum because I knew that most people were going to fall for the play.

[Lars~]

at least, that was my mindset at the time. I'm not as certain as I was in the moment, but I still think they're most likely scum.

[Lars~]

Honestly I’m not the biggest fan of the votes that have piled onto Norris, but Norris also hasn’t given me any reason to feel any better about them than before.
I don’t think trying to tonally read someone who’s “trolling” is very productive or reliable, so the fact that this is what’s being clung onto is pretty meh. There’s better things to look at (109, hell even 30) are much better to look at than Norris going “heehee I’m trolling”, especially since that sort of behaviour tends to be more player dependant than actually AI

this was exactly my point though. the trolling was a distraction, and it worked. I don't think they're scum because of it, in isolation I slightly lean town on that interaction, but I think it's an approach that scum could easily take and is very likely to be successful.

the main reason I think they're scum is still because of the original reasons that I voted them. I still don't think there's a understandable town thought process behind their earlier posts.

this is also why cooper's vote gave me some hesitation. I didn't like that he sheeped my confidence on a point that was less convincing, imo, than the earlier reasons.

[Lars~]

And following up on that,

On Copper:

This seems a straight up contradiction?

Elaborate.

Gut and sheeping Lars.

Also this kind of trolling is really scummy imo.

Is it just gut and sheeping? or is Norris being really scummy?

I had not quite finished my backread when responding to Bennings, Norris started getting really trolly on page 8 which I didn't read during the "sheeping" comment, the "trolling" comment came after I read everything.

I should probably do wallposts instead of thoughtstream spam and edit them as my outlook changes during my backreads.

I think if this explanation is true, it makes the vote a little less suspicious. I don't know if it is, though

[Lars~]

I'm somewhere around here:

Nauls
Garry
Blair

Fuchs
Bennings
Windows

MacReady
Childs
Clark

Palmer
Copper
Norris

I don't think I've talked about Palmer much but he's just seemed consistently a little off to me. Feels like he's been trying to pocket Nauls, and the way he followed on Windows in 249 felt slimy to me.

[Lars~]

this was exactly my point though. the trolling was a distraction, and it worked. I don't think they're scum because of it, in isolation I slightly lean town on that interaction, but I think it's an approach that scum could easily take and is very likely to be successful

whys it so bad if im doing it purposefully? is there no reason a town could want to do it purposefully as well?
Do I need to share everything with the world or do you just want to be stubborn nitpicky bitch?

i dont know if i think your scum or just idiotic yet, but still fuck off.

I just said that it's not a contributing reason for why I think you're scum. so yes, there are possible reasons you could do it as town. there are also possible reasons you could do it as scum.

if you don't want to talk about the point you don't have to, I would much rather you find other things to talk about because I think that will be more useful to everyone than continuing this

[Lars~]

actually on second thought I don't think it's that relevant because it could just be about E-1ing in general and not about Clark's alignment in this particular game.

I think you're still misinterpreting here, he's saying that the virtue signaling is about choosing not to E-1 someone. It's reasonable to see that as a bit performative.

[Lars~]

I don't like everyone pushing me, but I don't complain about every single one of them.

so what separates childs from the rest?

u can try opening fhe quote in the post ur looking at and opening the spoiler and read the italics i added on.. please?

This feels like really bad reasoning, but Norris putting his entire point inside a spoiler inside a quote makes me want to call him town again. At least back up to null

thanks for pointing this out. I had completely missed the spoilered comments (and didn't understand what the comment referencing it was talking about) until now.

points to you for making this clear and points to Norris for the comments themselves, which I think are good

VOTE: Clark

[Lars~]

Leaning more town on MacReady now. Less sure on my read of Palmer.

[Lars~]

Agree with pretty much all of that

[Lars~]

would like to hear from Nauls on his Fuchs read after the latest posting

[Lars~]

I think you're town but our reads seem to be pretty upside down from each other. I'll try to reread tomorrow to see if I can understand better where you're coming from, but I don't agree with most of what you've just said (maybe obviously, as one of the people who voted Clark)

I don't think I've talked much about Windows, but I lean town, and don't find the arguments against him compelling. Fuchs having a similar pattern isn't suspicious at all to me.

[Lars~]

Also the fact the moment where the current wagons get questioned and momentum towards a Windows wagon actually starts to form, 2 players randomly show up to reawaken the Clark wagon, which they’ve been quiet on for a while. Veeeery iffy on that.

I just don't really see this gamestate read as accurate at all, you're phrasing it like it's a general trend but it's literally just Palmer

I believe that you see things that way but I think you're wrong

[Lars~]

116 and 146 still sit at the back of my mind, really don’t like those.

To anyone townreading Fuchs: why?

The only thing I see in their favour is that they use a lot of words, which good for them, but it’s meaningless when the actual substance of those words is so questionable.

I'm townreading him because I disagree with you that the substance is questionable. I think his posts make sense and feel like they're coming from a place of town thought, I just don't really agree with the objections you have about them

I don't think there's anything wrong with the push on Palmer. The posts you linked seem totally reasonable to me. I think the most recent ones are solvy and generally correct. I like that he is paying attention to detail on things and it just generally feels like he's trying to sort out people's alignments rather than posting just to post.

[Lars~]

Alright, Nauls, I still don't see Fuchs as anything but towny, but I could be wrong on my read on Windows. After rereading and reassessing a bit I feel more of a null read on Copper, maybe leaning a bit town even.

I don't think Copper should be the elimination. I still think Clark is likely scum. I feel pretty good about Nauls, Fuchs, Blair, Garry, and MacReady. Not sure on Childs, but he wouldn't be the first place I look if Clark does turn out to be scum.

The others are likely in Palmer, Norris, Bennings, Windows.

[Lars~]

I guess it's maybe not a good idea to give too many preflip reads since scum can use those to see if they need to assimilate. I'm somewhat working under the assumption that I'll be able to notice any assimilation, but I might be overestimating my abilities on that front.

[Lars~]

and is there a reason I should townread you (and therefore not try to lim you today)?

Short of claiming is there any way to answer this question?

who do you think is scum and why?

[Lars~]

Though, that's a caveat for me: would someone replace into a scum-read slot and do this little to shake attention elsewhere? It seems a little surprising?

I don't think it's always a matter of choice.

[Lars~]

Claim with no scum hunting or answering of game related questions = scum

[Lars~]

agreed with blair

[Lars~]

I'm just waiting for the Clark elim at this point.

Fuchs do you want to talk about Palmer? Are you still suspicious there? I'm curious on your thoughts

[Lars~]

I'm just waiting for the Clark elim at this point.

Fuchs do you want to talk about Palmer? Are you still suspicious there? I'm curious on your thoughts

I feel like I fully voiced my thoughts on him. There is nothing that has come from him since that has swayed my position on him in a vacuum.

His reaction to Clarks claim in 539 do seem less likely as partners, as it has the function of discouraging a PR from outing vs a jailkeeper fake claim that likely would have been chosen to bait one out. So a Clark scum flip would probably soften the read somewhat -- but that would also entail a full re-eval from the PoV of confirmed scum!Clark anyways.

Okay fair, I just was curious if you had any more thoughts that you hadn't gone into fully. I feel a little conflicted on him but lean scum, and if you had a strong read I'd feel better about being more confident there

I don't think he's unlikely to be a Clark partner, personally

[Lars~]

Childs
Blair
Fuchs

Nauls
MacReady
Garry
Copper

Windows
Bennings

Norris
Palmer
Clark

[Lars~]

Technically roles don't flip, but if Clark flips town we can assume. And I'm not worried about Childs getting shot at night hurting town that much.

[Lars~]

Palmer, when you get here, I'd like to talk a bit.

[Lars~]

Palmer, when you get here, I'd like to talk a bit.

I am more-or-less around. What's up?

623 is... interesting.

I'm leaning Copper to be a townie for the 625-629 sequence, oddly enough.

In case anyone is wondering - I find mech arguments boring to engage with, and almost impossible to make reads from. I say almost, because I got a read on Childs. So I don't have much to say currently.

I just don't have a very good feel for where you're at right now and wanted to realtime a bit. I agree with all of your latest posts that Copper leans town, Childs is town, and Clark is scum.

I'm more wondering about your reads on others. Do you still scumread me? What about Windows?

[Lars~]

I think that was E-1, by the way

[Lars~]

I guess that's fair. I'd like that, though, yeah.

I was a little worried that you were intentionally limiting the amount of thoughts that you were putting into the thread. It felt like there was a lack of proactivity from you, given the state of how you scumread me previously, I scumread you, but you haven't really taken any steps to sort me further recently or investigate whether my scumread on you is legitimate or not.

You engaged with Fuchs on his reasoning, had some strong feelings about it, and came to a read as a result of it. I don't think I've really explained much of my reasoning, and it's strange to me that you've just been giving me a pass on that.

There's been other more pressing events, yes, but I think it's still useful in a situation where scum can assimilate to try to have as few lingering questions or doubts as possible when heading into night phase.

[Lars~]

A little bit, yeah, but the purpose of interacting with you is to try to get a better read on which one it is.

[Lars~]

I agree that wouldn't probably be worth interacting over, from the perspective of trying to make me see you as town. But I would expect that it would be worth interacting over from the perspective of you trying to sort me.

[Lars~]

but I think it's still useful in a situation where scum can assimilate to try to have as few lingering questions or doubts as possible when heading into night phase.

Why is this, by the way? I kind of lean the opposite way, since we'll be re-evaluating most slots tomorrow.

It's easier to re-evaluate slots if we have a confident baseline to compare to. I also think that generally, the more people post, the harder it becomes for scum to assimilate.

[Lars~]

I agree that wouldn't probably be worth interacting over, from the perspective of trying to make me see you as town. But I would expect that it would be worth interacting over from the perspective of you trying to sort me.

I'm not expecting that an answer to that question would be very AI. As I've said, I feel like that kind of read is very easy to make up when you're scum.

But sure, let's see - in what ways am I a little off to you?

It's mostly minor tone things, where you feel a little stiff or unnatural. 19 is an example. I agree with Fuchs (or Windows?) that 111 has an overexplained feel to it.

In general it feels like you're holding back a little and not letting yourself get fully engaged. You're posting, but it feels too constructed.

I don't think that's inherently scummy, since there's a lot of possible reasons for that feeling, but I was worried that if you were scum you would try to assimilate before people got a good handle on your natural voice (in order to better locate it in a different person). I also wondered why you didn't seem to have any similar urgency towards sorting me, since I don't think I've been especially verbose lately (until recently), but that's probably too self-centered of me.

[Lars~]

Oh, and what made you be less sure of it 396?

I think it was just that your series of posts from 337 to 362 felt a lot more natural to me.

My read on you hasn't decreased that much, but others (especially Copper) have gone up. I did also start to think more along the lines of the last paragraph in my previous post, which made me wary.

[Lars~]

Clark has had one foot in their grave for how many IRL days now? Why would I feel urgency towards sorting

you

...

Because there's more than one scum? What does Clark have to do with it? Why would there be more urgency towards sorting the person who is almost certainly going to flip anyway?

[Lars~]

It's not really about getting a solid scumread. It's about trying to figure out who may try to assimilate if they're scum, and not letting that be easy for them to do. It's about getting a better feel for people so you can better notice later if they seem off.

Like, for example, I feel pretty okay with trusting my ability to notice if certain players feel off from how they've been so far. Some I don't feel that at all. The more that I engage and talk to people, the fewer places there are where I'm worried that scum could easily jump there. The more I engage and talk with the people I think are scum, the better I feel about my ability to find them again if they assimilate.

[Lars~]

I still think Clark is likely scum.

How did you get here? They were in second-to-last tier in the readslist prior, and I don't see anything in between that explains it.

My read on Norris, Copper, and you all improved. I also townread MacReady more, and he was pushing for a Clark wagon, and I started to even more strongly townread Fuchs, who was also on the wagon.

I don't think there was anything that specific that Clark did to decrease my read on him, I just felt like I trusted the people pushing him, and was less suspicious of my other suspects. I probably reread Clark in there at some point as well before I voted him, but I don't remember specifically.

[Lars~]

I think the strongest point for me was the lack of what felt like any real scumhunting from them, but I don't remember if I specifically called that out. Pretty sure other people had done so already.

[Lars~]

It's not really about getting a solid scumread. It's about trying to figure out who may try to assimilate if they're scum, and not letting that be easy for them to do. It's about getting a better feel for people so you can better notice later if they seem off.

Like, for example, I feel pretty okay with trusting my ability to notice if certain players feel off from how they've been so far. Some I don't feel that at all. The more that I engage and talk to people, the fewer places there are where I'm worried that scum could easily jump there. The more I engage and talk with the people I think are scum, the better I feel about my ability to find them again if they assimilate.

And like I said, I don't think you're necessarily scum for this. Others might be approaching things differently. It was just something that made me want to talk to you and see what your thought process is, so I could understand it better.

[Lars~]

I'm fine with the day ending if anyone wants to hammer.