Newbie 680: In this town of Cookieland... Over!

[Moratorium]

I cannot believe we had to replace somebody named CookieMonster for a game called "In this town of Cookieland". That's just a huge shame.

vote YOUNG ERIC

because WHAT'S WITH THE CAPS MAN?! HUH?

[Moratorium]

STD: Who are the IC's for this game, if any?

[Moratorium]

for what, emphasis?

[Moratorium]

So. Yeah. *checks watch* Hmm hmm hmm.

No posts today except from the old man. Hum de hum.

...

...

Sure is nice outside.

...

*sigh*

...

...

you're all scum

...

...

Sure hope winter isn't too rough this year.

...

*looks around*

...

So, what's up guys?

[Moratorium]

out of random phase already? that was quick...

Unvote

[Moratorium]

I am getting bad vibes from two people right now. And a third by association.

First, popsofctown. Looking at My Milked Eek's attempt at a case in post #60, most of what's in there is fairly inane as far as actually being a scumtell. The one point that was made that I agree with, however, was the observation on the last statement:

I still think his original vote was a weee bit scummy, but i find his follow ups towny. I don't think you can vote him yet Barros.

This is a wishy-washy statement, and makes you look like you are trying to defend your buddy YOUNG ERIC while not bringing too much attention to yourself. (On further reflection, this makes me suspect YOUNG ERIC as well by association).


Second, Barros.

Or maybe I was wrong...
Maybe you (YOUNG ERIC) are dropping votes on pops because you realized you were turning yourself in. You realized you were being too scummy by voting on pops so now you just unvote.

You put pops on a L-3 situation, then you realized you were being too scummy, now you unvote him and you didn't vote in anyone else cause you want to get rid of the atention.

ERIC, you're obviously scum..

So first, I scoff at "L-3 situation"... oh noes!

Second, I scoff at your WIFOM-logic. Post #50: make a case. Post #51: make the opposite case. You aren't trying to come up with the best case against someone, you're throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and hoping someone picks up on your voodoo.

So. I suspect three people. There are only 2 mafia. And if I'm correct about one, the other I think is town. Quite the conundrum. I am going to refrain from voting at this point until I hear more, because I need to eliminate a suspect.

FoS: popsofctown (YOUNG ERIC by association as protected scumbuddy)
FoS: Barros

[Moratorium]

That sure was a lot of words. End result: Vote the scumbuddy to throw suspicion. Then agree with my other FoS to get me off you.

Vote: popsofctown

[Moratorium]

So your argument on why I shouldn't vote for you is:

*wave hands*

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN. ERIC IS THE TRUE SCUM.

*wave hands*

That's isn't a defense, that's a diversion.

There is no other tell it's based off of, so there's just the good old 2/9 that i'm actually mafia.

Your "other" tell right now is your voting history and FoS diversion. Just because you are trying to convince everyone that "hey, Eric is MUCH Scummier that me, he has *2* tells, I only have 1!" doesn't make you any less guilty in my eyes.

[Moratorium]

Your entire argument, everything you've said, everything that comes out of your mouth, is WIFOM. Making statements like

If i was fellow mafia would i be so concerned about that? Would i be expecting Eric to leave his vote there?

The answer is: Who cares! You could be, you know,

pretending

. That's kind of the point of the game.

You are consistently making arguments that go "Hey, if I was mafia, wouldn't I be doing exactly X, then Y, then Z? I'm not doing that, so obviously I'm town, right?". It's patently ridiculous.

[Moratorium]

Scum are scared, moreso than town, scared out of their tight cupcake pants.

This whole wagon on pops smells heavily of cupcakes.

Your self-imposed post restriction is amusing. Assuming it is self-imposed... <?>

WIFOM - NOT good case, everything is WIFOM reduced to purest forms

If everything is WIFOM, all cases are WIFOM, hence all cases are not good. QED. Mafia is Hard!

I don't have a case against pops based on post #81. That was an expression of my incredulity at his gameplay. My case right now is nothing more than "I don't really like what I'm seeing from pops". I do, however, appreciate the information I am getting from the vote switches and bandwagon hopping I'm seeing without much justification.

[Moratorium]

Moratorium, this is a newbie game, and there are no flavor considerations involved. Plus, does it seem reasonable that scum must say cupcakes in every post?

I was being facetious, Capricious. Stop being so specious.

[Moratorium]

Finger of Deliciousness: YOUNG ERIC

I'm digging the pops+Eric scumbuddy theory right now, but I'm willing to see how things evolve here.

[Moratorium]

Mod: You've got My Milked Eek voting for two different people.

[Moratorium]

wait.. I had to re-read this like a dozen times to make sure I understood..

with that said my short post were. I said "he was extremely suspicious" I knew that would lead to people suspecting me. therefore I would add more suspision on me while voting for pops I was hoping to severe the ties that he bound us together. Some of what he has said does make him seem like a likely candidate for scum.

Ok. Let me see if i'm following you here.

Your strategy, if I'm reading you correctly here, is that you wanted us to suspect you of being scum, and that because of your vote on pops, that we would therefore suspect pops of being town. That even though we would suspect you of being scum, hey, at least we don't think you and pops are associated.

That's.... just.... what....

The fact that you stress the importance of disassociating yourself with pops, EVEN MORE SO THAN CONVINCING US YOU ARE TOWN, convinces me that you have some kind of association with him. You are both Guilty McGuiltersons.

[Moratorium]

suspicious that maybe the scum are Moratorium + Eric or My Milked Eek +Eric

So you think Eric is scum?

trying to distance themselves and score a civilian kill by lynching Eric

So you think Eric is... town?

[Moratorium]

This scenario of yours looks more like trying to set up the next play after one of you is voted off, so that you aren't immediately targeted once the first lynch comes up scum.

If would be very hard to get the town to lynch me next, and I'm a civilian.

OR

Everyone agrees that you're his scumbuddy.

More WIFOM.

[Moratorium]

EBWOP doesn't change my point.

[Moratorium]

If you were wrong, tans pis, but at least you have information.

If I had a eurocent every time...

It's looking like eventually everyone in this game is going to give themselves a self-imposed post restriction...

Man.. if I had a Loonie everytime Pops posted something WIFOM, I could buy a hockey team, and all the maple syrup I wanted. That's what I'm talking aboot.

[Moratorium]

I see you and ERIC as scummiest at the moment.

I think Barros did some scummy things (see post 64), but he's in third place on my scum list, and only the top 2 get medals in the Cookieland Olympics.

[Moratorium]

Ah, sorry, didn't know the code.

[Moratorium]

My opinion on all three of them is still pretty much the same as was detailed in post #64 when I originally called them out.

I'd like to add that although I'm currently voting for pops, if either pops or Eric get to L-1 at this point without a drastic change in arguments or debate, that I'll be happy to switch to either one and hammer. I'd have to see something pretty convincing from either one at this point to stop being suspicious of them.

[Moratorium]

Eric didn't clearly indicate why he was voting. And I know Eric can't possibly be suspicious that he and I are scumbuddies. That leaves very little reason to vote for me.

The L-1 vote, right? I'm not quite sure what you're implying, but I think it's that he can't be your scumbuddy because of that. Well, tbh, that possibility is still there.

I'm in the middle of reading your post right now, but I just wanted to write this down before I forgot it....

...are you talking to yourself here? You quoted yourself, and then answered... yourself?

[Moratorium]

@Moratorium
Eric and I have done very different things in this game. You don't insist one or the other deserves your vote more?

Why must I insist? Does this bother you?

Would you hammer whichever one of us, even if we had no deadline?

Yes, as stated in post #132.

[Moratorium]

@moratorium, yes this bothers me. If there's much difference between two people's levels of suspiciousness, you should fight for the one you think is more suspicious. Lynching the more suspicious one helps the town more, that's what you should care about.

If I've already stated that I'm willing to hammer you both, how does me identifying which is "scummier" going to change anything. Think of it this way, you're both already getting F's on the scum test right now. What does it matter if one of you is a F+ and the other is a F-?

[Moratorium]

Do you think it's both of them or just one of them (if so, who?), who is scum?

I think it is both of them.

Be aware that I'm ready to hammer ERIC right now, but I'll allow a defense and a claim.

[Moratorium]

I thought Martin413 got replaced.

[Moratorium]

Plenty of time has been given for a claim or a defense, last post was 8 days ago, no V/LA notification, and we all collectively think you are guilty.

vote: YOUNG ERIC

[Moratorium]

I made it clear that I thought both pops and Eric were scum. Saying I "switched wagons" or was "wishy-washy" is incorrect, I made it very plain that I was on both wagons and ready to hammer either player if they reached L-1.

Characterizing my vote on Eric as a "jump-in", considering I expressed my first doubts about pops and Eric in post 64, four pages ago, is also a very weak argument.

Obviously, this theory with Eric hasn't panned out. But painting me as Johnny-come-lately when I've been on this theory from the beginning is unhelpful and confuses everyone.

[Moratorium]

---

This is Post 164. You will want to remember post 164.

---

I took a shower, and made a decision. I'm going to take this entire game and turn it into a logical puzzle instead of a mash of psychology and failed motive guesses. I've been running the numbers in my head, and the various possibilities that could occur. The worst case scenario as I can see it now is that this post will give town a 33% chance of winning, but chances are good that those odds will be mitigated by other events.

Come, follow me down this road of mystery, will you?

I claim Sane Cop. Barros was investigated last night and flipped Guilty.

I decided to investigate Barros because I thought it was suspicious that as soon as I brought him up in post 64, he went super-quiet. My case against him was how he was contradicting himself in back to back posts, and I think it spooked him into not talking too much.

I am going with the following suppositions in this claim:
- I am a sane cop.
- There is a 50% chance of there being a doctor in this game (Scenario 1 or Scenario 3). A smart doctor will protect me tonight.
- If there is a doctor, there is a 100% chance of there also being a Mafia Roleblocker (Scenario 3), who, if he decides not to block me, will have a 25% chance (1 out of 4 other townies) of picking the doctor to roleblock.

The worst case scenario based on this claim is as follows:
- I am lynched. There is no doctor. I flip cop.
- A Townie is NK'd.
- Barros is lynched the next day as the obvious choice.
- A Townie is NK'd.
- This puts us in a situation where there is 1 mafia, and 2 town. Therefore, the chance that the correct mafia is lynched is 33% at that point, if we don't consider anything else (voting record, scummyness, etc).

Some events that I have considered to mitigate those odds:
- Town decides to follow my advice and lynches Barros. Immediately informed he is scum, 50% chance that Roleblocker has been eliminated. Town dies from NK (chance of doctor save), we go into Day 3 with 4 town and 1 scum. Good situation.
- I know right now that there's a 50% chance of there being a doctor. If that doctor protects me tonight, and survives the total 1 in 5 chance of being roleblocked'd, we get an additional night of investigation. Very good situation.
- Mafia might attempt to NK the doctor who self-protects at any point, wasting a nightkill.
- Town can mitigate the odds further simply by doing what town always does, attempt to determine who is scum based on what they post.

---

Now, I'm pretty sure that there will be some hem-hawing in the next page or two about this claim, and people will try to figure out whether to believe it, or just lynch me. Ultimately, since I picked the right person to investigate last night, me getting lynched offers absolute proof that Barros is guilty. So it's not all bad. If we are going that way, I'll have to hope that the

doctor is paying attention

and will protect me tonight.

However, I humbly ask that everyone pull up Barros' post history and make your own determination as to what's going on. I was suspicious that he went very quiet after I called him out, and my investigation was fruitful.

Good luck, all. The decision you make today will probably win or lose the game.

[Moratorium]

If we are going that way, I'll have to hope that the doctor is paying attention and will protect me tonight.

EBWOP: IF we

aren't

going that way...

[Moratorium]

I believe Moratorium fully, who do you think is the other scum?

I'm not going to answer this question today, it gives scum too much information.

So worst case scenario for falsely believing Moratorium is the same as the worst case scenario for correctly believing Moratorium.

This is a pointless sentence.

it doesn't make whole lots of dollars and sense for scum to claim cop with a verdict day 1.

Neither here nor there, but it is Day 2.

There's always a 50% chance of counterclaim.

That sentence makes as much sense as "There is a 50% chance that pigs will land on my house today". Either pigs will or won't land on my house, but just because there are only 2 choices doesn't make the odds 50%. I would put the odds at a counterclaim much much higher than 50%.

Usually the counterclaimer wins.. as far as i know.

Complete bullshit.

Moratorium's suggested that today's call is between Moratorium and Barros. I'm not sure it really is at all.

Look at Barros. If you don't think that Barros is the target for today, after an honest look at his post history, fall back and lynch me, town will still get all the information it needs. If you vote Barros and he flips town,

I GO NEXT

. Automatic.

I'm not feeling up to the math on that. Moratorium, are you in a mathy mood? I think if we leave Barros alive, and just suppose Moratorium is detective in the meantime, we greatly improve our chances of winning without making a decision yet. I could be totally wrong about that, maybe we do need to lynch one of the two today.

Suggesting to ignore everything I've said and go elsewhere is either you attempting to get Barros off the hook in a bad-for-scum situation, or, if you are town, HORRIBLE PLAY. Please explain to me the scenario where my claim benefits scum if I am completely lying about it, because currently your scenario is "Maybe Moratorium thinks he sucks as a player". I do not. Delaying this choice to lynch either scum or scum's investigator and giving up the potential information gained lacks judgment.

vote: Barros

Pops, and this is for serious now, if you are town in this game, you are going to need to learn when not to inject your confusing rhetoric when town is attempting to make a case. I do not feel that you are helping at all.

And if you're scum, well, Bravo.

[Moratorium]

Mod: Please prod Barros (no posts in 6 days), Pimhel (no posts for 6 days), and Chuck Norris (no posts in 4 days).

None of these players have posted since Day 2 started. I would like to hear their opinions on my claim.

Also, I have answers to the questions "Why did you pick Barros to investigate?" and "Who will you investigate next?", but I do not wish to give out those answers until I've heard from everyone.

Please do not be too quick to hammer today, whoever the lynch target is. It is to town's advantage that we discuss this a lot and get a better feel on the remaining players.

[Moratorium]

Awesome. Counterclaim is go. Let's analyze.

Moratorium, firstly you lynched ERIC as fast as you could with the excuse that "he was talking".

My original FoS was September 29th. I voted October 8th. I'm not sure what "he was talking" is referring to, but you can hardly characterize me as a bandwagon jumper.

Why didn't you wait for replacements?

This is legitimate, a smarter play would have been to wait for a replacement.

Then, when day2 comes, you start saying your cop and i'm Scum. You really want to rush things out.

No. I posted this 7 minutes before you did:

Please do not be too quick to hammer today, whoever the lynch target is. It is to town's advantage that we discuss this a lot and get a better feel on the remaining players.

Let me tell you something (something you already know for sure), you're not a cop. How do I know that you might ask. I know it because I'm the sane cop. And to

proove

it, the only thing I can say is that I investigated Pops

I know you are doing your best at this counterclaim, but you, I, and everyone else in this game is well aware that nothing we type here

proves

anything. You are doing your best to support your case with leading language, and it's cute. Wrong, but cute.

As you might remember he was really suspicious, everyone thought that pops was connected to Eric and both were scum.

"Hey everybody, remember pops, remember how you all thought he was guilty! Well I figured him out, yessiree I did, I'm the hero!"

My investigation ended with this result: Pops is not scum!

Obvious attempt at getting me to waste my next investigation. I have another idea in mind there, unfortunately for you.

Moratorium randomly chose someone...

...who I

FoS

'd on page 3...

I dont beg the doc to protect me. if he doesn't or if you lynch me it's your fault town but at least you'll know who the really scum are.

And there we have it. If you were really cop, you'd want the doctor to protect you.

so dont be amazed by a big comment full of grown up probabilites, it's all crap.

"I have no defense against math."

He is scum and he couldn't have chosen a better person to accuse.

Really? If I were scum, wouldn't I accuse the person everyone is arguing with, i.e. Pops? Seems like that would be the easiest route, wouldn't it? Why put myself through all these hoops?

[hr]

Ultimately, it comes down to this: I made this claim because I am a

WILLING SACRIFICE

to exchange one mafia for one townie, me. If I convince town to lynch you, big win for town. If I don't and get lynched instead, small win for town.

I'm afraid your counterclaim is very weak.

Happily, I can now answer the previous questions:

1) I investigated Barros because I had a choice from my two FoS's in post 64: Barros or Pops. Pops was talking like crazy, Barros wasn't saying a thing. I figured if I investigated Barros, I might also be able to learn about Pops just from his constant talking. But if I investigated Pops, I probably wouldn't learn anything about Barros since he was so quiet.

I went with the option that maximized information.

Simple, really.

2) The only way that I would reveal who I was to investigate next would be if we were lucky enough to lynch the Roleblocker (Hopefully Barros). Then I could be open about who to investigate (we could actually discuss it in thread and determine which investigation makes the most sense, almost like voting), and since we'd know there was a doctor alive, we could do this with impunity. Otherwise, if I say "i'll investigate STD tonight", scum then gets to make a decision on whether to block me. Why give them that option?

[Moratorium]

There was no intent at a trap by specifying "Sane". If I had laid such a verbal trap, I would have said something in my analysis of Barros's counterclaim (like AHA GOT YOU). I specified "Sane" based on the role scenarios laid out in post #1, which I had been looking at to determine possible outcomes (like, for example, the knowledge that if there is a roleblocker, there must be a doctor).

Another point of interest and contrast between my claim and the counterclaim is that, without directly quoting my investigation result PM, I can state that the result I got on Barros was about his

guilt

, not his role. Barros flipped guilty, not scum. In Barros' counterclaim, he specified that pops flipped "not scum", which is not what the cop role reveals.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Cop

This, more than the "Sane Cop" verbal trap proposal from Capricious (that was never my original intent anyways), indicates to me a misunderstanding of the Cop role by Barros, and with no actual PM to go by, he took a guess at the syntax.

[Moratorium]

But, I'm inclined to believe him (Barros) because i know the investigation he gave is right.. but that's the only reason i have to believe him.

In counterclaiming, Barros was in a position where he had to gain allies/votes. If you truly are basing your "that's the only reason i have" belief on the fact that he was correct, I hope you also realize that his only good plays were:

1) Saying that he investigated

me

and claim he got a guilty result. Confuse everyone.
2) Picking someone, claiming a confirmed innocent, and gaining an ally.

By picking someone else and claiming guilty, he gains nothing, that person is immediately suspicious, and everything unravels. So choosing you, the most talked about player, and saying you are innocent, is, I hope you realise, an obvious play.

@Moratorium: I've been meaning to ask this but i forgot: Why did you claim instead of just applying pressure to Barros? Barros looked pretty bad. I'd given Barros an FoS, I'd have backed you up. Barros doesn't look like genius scum that could guard himself brilliantly. And you wouldn't have to reveal the cop to the scum that way. Why did you make the early claim?

I answered this in post 164. First, I disagree with you that "Barros looked pretty bad." No one was saying much of anything about Barros on Day 1, and nothing at all in the early part of Day 2. In fact, the first Day 2 posts were cases being started on me by you and Capricious regarding your perceived suspicions of me RE: Young Eric being hammered.

So now put yourself in my position. Day 2 arrives. I have a beneficial investigation result. My investigation target has flown under the radar most of the game. The rest of town is suspicious of me due to the vote results. If the rest of town lynches me, we're in some serious trouble, we'll be LYLO on Day 3 (3 town 2 mafia), with no good information on anyone. I have to figure something out right now or we are lost. And not "I have to hope someone comes up with something"... I have to figure it out! I'm the one with the damn guilty verdict!

So...

I'm going to take this entire game and turn it into a logical puzzle instead of a mash of psychology and failed motive guesses.

I decided to go with trying to figure out the odds. And the odds said to play the sacrifice. I knew I would have to fight a counterclaim, but I also knew that

even if I lost, there were possible mitigating factors

(immediate reveal of scum if lynched, possible doctor NK save if not lynched), and a bottom line that wasn't a complete disaster (33% town win chance).

So again. Here we are. If you lynch Barros, town is way ahead. If you lynch me, town is slightly ahead. If you lynch someone else, you're taking a shot in the dark, and most likely you'll be LYLO Day 3. The risk in choosing between myself and Barros to lynch is EQUAL, because whoever you pick, if it was a mistake, the other guy goes next. So why not pick the one with the best case, and take a shot at town going way ahead? Who do you think has made the best case, me or Barros?

That, right there, is the paragraph I'm going to quote when this game is over.

[Moratorium]

Along this train of thought, I invite Capricious to unvote for safety, without retracting his desire to lynch Barros. "But Pops, L-2 isn't that close". If one of our replacements is very aggressive/intuitive, they could vote Barros to L-1, and then Barros could self-hammer to stop talk, things do look that grim for him.

UPDATE: after just reading Moratorium's post, i think he could agree to this.... well maybe not, that would be me and Moratorium agreeing on something Razz.

I missed this request reading through the first time, but actually, I think this is a wise idea. We have two players who appear to be MIA, and I don't have much of a read on either one's motives so far (just 2 or 3 posts each). There's no need to risk an aborted end to Day 2.

I'd like to hear some concrete opinions from both Pimhel and Chuck Norris on the Cop claim/counterclaim to ensure we can maximize our reads on everyone. Once everyone has made significant contributions to Day 2, I'll revote.

Unvote

HoS: Barros

[Moratorium]

Who was proposing that we lynch someone else?

Right now we have two cop claims. Earlier i suggested leaving Barros and Moratorium alive, perhaps, then dismissed it. But now in this special case, it could be a really good middle road.

[Moratorium]

I just reread page seven and realized that Moratorium's large cop claim was after he got an FoS and a vote.
This is disconcerting, it makes his claim look more like a pre-emptive butt-saving claim.
I also didn't notice last time that his major claim was his second day 2 post, not his first.
Would you like to describe why you waited that little bit of time, Moratorium?

I answered this in post 199. In fact, when I answered this in post 199, it was within an answer responding to a question of yours that states that I'd answered another question of yours again in post 164...

@Moratorium: I've been meaning to ask this but i forgot: Why did you claim instead of just applying pressure to Barros? Barros looked pretty bad. I'd given Barros an FoS, I'd have backed you up. Barros doesn't look like genius scum that could guard himself brilliantly. And you wouldn't have to reveal the cop to the scum that way. Why did you make the early claim?

I answered this in post 164. First, I disagree with you that "Barros looked pretty bad." No one was saying much of anything about Barros on Day 1, and nothing at all in the early part of Day 2. In fact, the first Day 2 posts were cases being started on me by you and Capricious regarding your perceived suspicions of me RE: Young Eric being hammered.

So now put yourself in my position. Day 2 arrives. I have a beneficial investigation result. My investigation target has flown under the radar most of the game. The rest of town is suspicious of me due to the vote results. If the rest of town lynches me, we're in some serious trouble, we'll be LYLO on Day 3 (3 town 2 mafia), with no good information on anyone. I have to figure something out right now or we are lost. And not "I have to hope someone comes up with something"... I have to figure it out! I'm the one with the damn guilty verdict!

So first of all, if I'm going to put the effort to go back and read and re-read posts of yours, and pay attention to what YOU are saying (see: Unvote), I would appreciate it if you did the same.

Second, it was ABSOLUTELY, COMPLETELY a pre-emptive, butt-saving claim. That's

THE ENTIRE POINT OF POST 164

, to go "hey, guys, you are all fucking this up badly, I need to fix this right now or we're dead".

As far as "why i waited that little bit of time", I went back and looked, and it was 1 hour and 45 minutes from the first post to the second. I spent that time thinking over the situation, taking a nice shower in my lovely hotel all-marble shower that I've been enjoying these past two weeks (as i mentioned in the opening of post 164), and typing up the post. I'm not sure what else you are insinuating that I could accomplish in that amount of time that somehow makes me sinister?

[Moratorium]

Waiting on better posting from Barros, Pimhel and ChuckNorris.

This game has gone to crap because half the players aren't participating.

[Moratorium]

What? No.

[Moratorium]

It was joke flavor that is obviously now starting to confuse people and that we really should drop altogether.

[Moratorium]

STD, this game isn't going to progress until we get replacements and some forceful moderation.

[Moratorium]

To all new replacements: I want your opinion on the Cop claim/counterclaim central to this game at the moment.

[Moratorium]

Obviously no one is talking, so the purpose of my holding off my vote until we had more participation to avoid quicklynches seems incredibly useless right now.

vote: Barros

[Moratorium]

The purpose to unvoting was to prevent you from voting yourself and allowing a quicklynch with your scumbuddy. That way, we could spend time discussing things and not allow you to vote yourself off to prevent that discussion.

The problem is, there has been no useful communication whatsoever. No one is playing this game. So I'd rather the game proceed to something else that might interest people into actually participating.

Jersey's having to read the entire thread in one go before posting his opinion. I highly doubt after reading the entire thread, he'll then see my last vote and go "Well damn, I was seriously undecided, but after Moratorium busted out that impressive vote right there I was convinced!"

Many thanks for your input, Barros, you may curl up and die now.

[Moratorium]

/facepalm

First, I'll start with this.

So again. Here we are. If you lynch Barros, town is way ahead. If you lynch me, town is slightly ahead. If you lynch someone else, you're taking a shot in the dark, and most likely you'll be LYLO Day 3. The risk in choosing between myself and Barros to lynch is EQUAL, because whoever you pick, if it was a mistake, the other guy goes next. So why not pick the one with the best case, and take a shot at town going way ahead? Who do you think has made the best case, me or Barros?

So looking at your analysis, jersey:

We lynch Moratorium and if he flips town, then going with Barros is a no-brainer. We immediately eliminate 50% of the scum and have another day to ferret out the other.

We lynch Barros based on Moratoriums claim and he flips town. So we whack Moratorium, with the same final result. The only thing here is if we lynch Moratorium and believe Barros, we take advantage of the first investigation and it puts us ahead of the game as we KNOW that pops is innocent.

That entire quote boils down to "I consider both claims of equal value, but Barros's (fake) potential confirmed innocent makes his claim better".

- Nevermind that I give strong supporting arguments to my claim.
- Nevermind the self-sacrificial reasoning.
- Nevermind that Barros's claims look like they came off a Fruit Loops box.
- Nevermind that Barros's central theme is "Hey, let's just see what happens"
- Nevermind the empirical statistical evidence.
- Nevermind that Barros's fakeclaiming a confirmed innocent is the obvious counterplay when you just got called out by the cop as guilty.

I feel that Moratoriums appeal to a doc (which we aren't even sure there is one) is simply a red herring being used to prop up his whole claim.

So you feel that having a 50% chance at a doc isn't enough of an incentive for me to risk the sacrifice? Why not? Can you explain the math away instead of telling us about your feelings?

One last scenario which gives me the heebie-jeebies is that Moratorium AND Barros are both cupcakes. Barros agrees to take one for the team and puts up a halfhearted counterclaim and defense. Now, we whack Barros who flips cupcake, and the town puts itself at the mercy of the "proven" cop, Moratorium. A risky ploy, but feasible, and it could possibly work, especially in a game full of newbies.

The only thing I can do to respond to this (because I actually think this is a clever game strategy) is to say, have a look at Barros's posting. Does that, to you, look like someone who is purposefully looking like a bumbling fool, or just a bumbling fool? Is it genuine, or contrived?

So, that being said, I think the least of the evils is to lynch Moratorium. If he flips cupcake, hooray! We are -1 SCUM and +1 TOWN. It has its risks, but we can always lynch Barros the next day and take our chances.

Hooray, it's the same situation by lynching Barros! This quote has zero value? Can I refer you to the original quote again?

So again. Here we are. If you lynch Barros, town is way ahead. If you lynch me, town is slightly ahead. If you lynch someone else, you're taking a shot in the dark, and most likely you'll be LYLO Day 3. The risk in choosing between myself and Barros to lynch is EQUAL, because whoever you pick, if it was a mistake, the other guy goes next. So why not pick the one with the best case, and take a shot at town going way ahead? Who do you think has made the best case, me or Barros?

[Moratorium]

Hm, i don't know Barros. I found YOUNG ERIC's response towny enough.

Lynching the more suspicious one helps the town more, that's what you should care about.

I encourage everyone to read this quote of me defending ERIC in context. It's a kneejerked reaction to Barros aggressive vote on ERIC, in a tone that sounds pretty much ready to drop a hammer.

I agree with most of what you said about Barros.

He's exhibited some scum tells, but I'm not sure if i'm being fair any more. He isn't any fishier then Barros

And Moratorium's case earlier on Barros seems equally convincing

Anywhoo, i felt like Eric was really suspicious and so was Barros,

Hmm. So worst case scenario for falsely believing Moratorium is the same as the worst case scenario for correctly believing Moratorium.

I think he (Barros) was projecting, espionage and deception was on his mind because he is scum.

Based on his post history, I do really think he'd (Barros) be a good lynch.

I'm leaning towards a Barros lynch more and more.

I must admit here. Barros looks really really bad right now. The way he claimed didn't sound totally clean, and a counter cop claim is infinitely suspicious.

At this point, i want to redeclare that i currently favor Moratorium is cop right now.

After reading this post over again, Barros's messy cop claim looks a lot like his earlier stupidities/aggression

But I'm becoming more and more certain that Moratorium is telling the truth (most of my issues have been believing Moratorium, because i def. think Barros is suspicious and cupcakable)

the complete breaks in logic (from Barros) are starting to get sad

..........

Really.. not liking what i'm seeing from moratorium.

You give me such a headache.

[Moratorium]

If you go back and read the quotes in order, the point that I am trying to make is how much of a fence-sitter you are. You've stated six ways to sunday how "convinced" you are about Barros' guilt, but you refuse to actually vote. Hell, you INVENTED a voting style (I cupcake you!) just so you wouldn't have to vote anyone.

And the truly baffling part about this, the part that just makes me shake my head, is that normally, fence-sitting is just a massive scumtell. Normally, I'd be all over your ridiculousness in this game, your refusal to commit to anything, your insane theories, your wishy-washyness, all of it. But, *groan*, I think you're town! From everything you've posted, I don't read any of it as deceipt, just as a new player who can't put his thoughts together constructively.

I also agree with Capricious about this:

I want to point out the "input" Barros has given us was his pseudo-investigation of pops. I am 95% sure pops is town solely based on Barros declaring him town. Scum just do not play like that - fake-claiming cop and declaring their partner innocent as per investigate.

I don't think Barros would bring any attention to his scumbuddy in this situation by targetting him with his counterclaim, so this actually supports you as being town.

And knowing that I'm going to have to deal with this for as long as I survive in this game gives me an acute pain between the eyes.

---

Now, about your little argument about me re-voting Barros and how amazingly suspicious it is. You are completely forgetting YOUR OWN ARGUMENT about why we were unvoting in the first place.

PREVENT QUICKLYNCHES SO WE CAN DISCUSS MORE.

The point that's being ignored is, no one was talking. This game was dead until I re-voted. But worse than that:

IF THE POINT WAS TO QUICKLYNCH, WHERE'S THE QUICKLYNCH????

Barros has posted since I re-voted. Anyone see Barros voting for himself yet? If the idea was to allow conversation to flow and not be interrupted by the quicklynch, well hell, I've generated more useful conversation by revoting.

Also:

I took a shower, and made a decision. I'm going to take this entire game and turn it into a logical puzzle instead of a mash of psychology and failed motive guesses. I've been running the numbers in my head, and the various possibilities that could occur. The worst case scenario as I can see it now is that this post will give town a 33% chance of winning, but chances are good that those odds will be mitigated by other events.

Psychology and failed motive guesses. Joke's on me! That'll teach me to think that people can be convinced with math.

I understand your point of view here, pops. You don't know who's innocent and who's guilty, you're probably doing what you can to figure it out, I get it. I'm trying my best, I truly am, to keep the personal attacks and out-of-bounds anger out of my post, because that stuff isn't necessary. But I'm very frustrated. Maybe I'm not doing a good enough job at expressing my points. I'll conceed that, if everyone's having difficulty with what I'm saying. But I also feel that your fence-sitting on...

everything

... is detrimental to town.

One thing I do know, I probably would have had an easier time just not claiming my role, and just move on normally in the game. I'll think it over several times before doing a Day 2 claim as cop ever again.

So. Pretty-please. With sugar on top. Vote Barros.

[Moratorium]

Moratorium tends to read anything resembling intelligence as a ploy to further the scum's aims (picking me as innocent)

I'm not tending to read it that way, I know it is a ploy. I'm the cop, and I investigated him as guilty.

[Moratorium]

I'd like to hear who everyone thinks I should investigate next, should I survive both D2 and N2.

[Moratorium]

D1 is a friggin' piece of modern art or something if me and Moratorium are scum partners.

[Moratorium]

Yes, we are waiting for a sub.

A fresh round of prods probably wouldn't hurt either.

[Moratorium]

Unofficial Vote Count

2 Barros (Capricious, Moratorium)
2 Moratorium (Barros, jerseygoomba)

NV: PopsofCtown, guy0, ChuckNorris

With 7 alive, 4 to lynch...

[Moratorium]

Pops: Not voting until sub makes opinion known.
ChuckNorris: Not active, needs replacement.

Guy0: What's preventing you from voting at this point?

[Moratorium]

jersey, please tell us what my response was to why I investigated Barros instead of pops, and then please tell me why it doesn't make sense.

I want to make sure you actually know what I said.

[Moratorium]

In essence, if Moratorium is faking it, he made a good decision to role-claim, and if he is not faking it they he MAY have made a good decision to roleclaim, instead of attacking Barros and hinting at his role. With his ability to look more closely at Barros's actions KNOWING that he was scum, he may have been able to pull of a lynch on him without claiming his role, and only used that as a last resort if his plan backfired.

...and I addressed this as well. super.

[Moratorium]

No.

My reasoning for investigating Barros was to maximize information.

Please indicate in my posts where I refer to this investigation as a "shot in the dark". Then refer to post 64 (Page 3 goddamn) where I am initially suspicious of Barros.

If all of my posts are just going to be "hey wow you're not paying attention, read post X", this game, which initially I was pretty pumped about because of the guilty verdict, has just turned into a big pointless slog.

Lynch Barros. If he flips town, lynch me. If he flips scum, I may die to NK anyway, but with a chance at a doc protection and another investigation result. It's not more complicated than that. Just do it already. Are you expecting me to bust out some fucking "I'm a Ninja Death Miller with 3 daykills and a Utility Belt" claim on Day 3? Jesus, half of you are overthinking this game. You're not that brilliant. The game doesn't always involve crazy 3-step plots and triple-crossing backstabs. Let it go. Lynch Barros.

I'm starting to agree with you pops, the claim may not have been the best play. But it wasn't because of the math. It's because I didn't foresee people's willingness to play dumb.

[Moratorium]

With you thinking that knowledge of pops' alignment would be of the utmost importance for day 2, it would have been the investigation that maximized information

you would have investigated pops since AT THE TIME YOU THOUGHT he was the most suspicious

Glad you're thinking for me. Here's what I was actually thinking.

1) I investigated Barros because I had a choice from my two FoS's in post 64: Barros or Pops. Pops was talking like crazy, Barros wasn't saying a thing. I figured if I investigated Barros, I might also be able to learn about Pops just from his constant talking. But if I investigated Pops, I probably wouldn't learn anything about Barros since he was so quiet. I went with the option that maximized information.

So what are you saying exactly, "Your investigation makes no sense because your reasoning wasn't the same as what my reasoning probably would have been in hindsight"? Plus, following you here, had I actually investigated pops, and got an innocent (which I now believe I would), I'd have no read on Barros at all, and nothing to reveal of interest on pops. And Pops continues to write novels, and Barros continues to say not very much, and town is nowhere.

I refute your hypothesis.

[Moratorium]

First of all, there is absolutely no way you can use the argument "well look what happened, i didn't investigate pops and it turned out to be good" because thats a just a dumb argument because at the time you made the investigation you didn't know that, which is the main point of my argument.

Mis-representation of my argument.

I guess your investigation choice makes a little sense but you're still ignoring the fact that, by being the cop, you can CONFIRM anyone's alignment, so pops chatterboxyness, which could either be town or scum would have been confirmed.

And I chose to CONFIRM Barros.

Bunch of words about what I "should" have done.

I didn't do what you say I should have done, I did what I thought I should have done. You're not refuting my investigation choice, you're just trying to come up with what you think is a better one and trying to pin me to the fact that I didn't follow suit.

I guess your investigation choice makes a little sense

What?

I guess your investigation choice makes a little sense

I'm sorry, what was that? I missed that...

I guess your investigation choice makes a little sense

Yeah.

[Moratorium]

as i have already said almost 100 times. You (moratorium) are in a big hurry to lynch someone.. First it was ERIC, now me. Don't you think that you're acting a little bit scummy? I don't know, just me wondering..

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: 159
Day 2, you awake to a town without My Milked Eek.
My Milked Eek, townie, killed night 1
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Day 2 started three weeks and a day ago. Thank you for your concern trolling, but I think there has been plenty of conversation to date, no one is injecting anything new, our mod has all but disappeared, several players are lurking, we're not getting replacements even though several dozen people have posted to the newbie queue in the last week, so I get to sit here and read all these garbageposts, plausibly being egged on by the other scum in this game, also plausibly being a bunch of townies trying to outwit each other. So thank you for letting us know what you are "just wondering", Barros the Mafia Goon, because surely it's not an attempt on your part to bring topics to the forefront that might get you off the hook.

I haven't read everything yet, just an overlook. I see guy0 saying that moratorium's investigation target was too much random. I think the same way.. If he really wanted to kill a mafia (so town would be in an advantage situation) i think that the obvious target would be pops..

How surprising that you agree with an opinion that someone else came up that takes people's eyes off of you. Can you come up with anything of your own?

right.. you are always protecting town people, but when it comes to lynch someone you just want to maximize information.. good excuse Wink

...what? What do you mean here, I don't understand the attack. I want to "protect town people", does that mean you don't? And why wouldn't I want to maximize information? Wouldn't you? I'm not following the logic of how this is an attack, it just seems like a string of words that don't go anywhere.

I am frustrated at the lack of moderation in this game.

[Moratorium]

Reading...

[Moratorium]

Moratorium, can you explain me why you chose Barros, instead of Pops as Pops was one of your number two suspects day 1.

I'm pretty sure you saw the answer to this later on, but I'll quote myself again just to make it clear.

I investigated Barros because I had a choice from my two FoS's in post 64: Barros or Pops. Pops was talking like crazy, Barros wasn't saying a thing. I figured if I investigated Barros, I might also be able to learn about Pops just from his constant talking. But if I investigated Pops, I probably wouldn't learn anything about Barros since he was so quiet. I went with the option that maximized information. Simple, really.

Moratorium, after Barros claimed he immediatly voted you. Why didn't you vote him in your first post of day 2, while 'your result' said he is scum?

Because I forgot to vote. I ended up voting an hour and a half later.

Lynch Barros. If he flips town, lynch me.

If you're the cop, you should know he won't.

I was being rhetorical, by saying "hey, if it turns out I'm a big fat liar, you still have an out." I know for a fact what my role is, but I have to present a case for you lot who don't know for a fact what my role is, hence, worst case scenario, he flips town and you lynch me.

If Moratorium is the cop, I agree with him saying that. There are some players now who are looking negatively at him only because they want to discuss more.

I agree with this statement, basically the sentiment that "hey let's keep the day going as long as possible so that we can figure out some more stuff" has, in my eyes, destroyed town's chances at an easy victory, because it has allowed some very dumb discussion to proceed, be it scum-driven or no. It

may

have increased town's chances at a marginal victory, however, by giving players in future days more information.


Can we have some votes please?

[Moratorium]

Unofficial Vote Count

2 Barros (Capricious, Moratorium)
2 Moratorium (Barros, jerseygoomba)

NV: PopsofCtown, guy0, Mana_Ku

With 7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[Moratorium]

Last vote count was posted 30 days ago, so I'm keeping a tally.

[Moratorium]

Also...

Is it also OK for me to PM Moratorium? I want to say something against him which is really offtopic and there's no reason to tell it here.

You're freaking me out a little bit.

[Moratorium]

Got off that cupcake real quick...

I had to laugh at this. "Boy, pops, you sure jumped off your fictional, meaningless non-vote there, if you go so far as to

Bagel: Barros

I'm definitely going to have to

unCreamCheese

and

Maple Syrup: Pops

."

This game is retarded.

[Moratorium]

Got off that cupcake real quick...

I had to laugh at this. "Boy, pops, you sure jumped off your fictional, meaningless non-vote there, if you go so far as to Bagel: Barros I'm definitely going to have to unCreamCheese and Maple Syrup: Pops."

This game is retarded.

Are you discontented? Regardless of pops's capricious style, he is still making a doubleplusgood play here with his goodthought on the most important issue, that of the cops...

My comment is directed at jersey, not pops. I'm attempting to show how much value and emphasis jersey seems to place in a fictional, meaningless non-vote syntax that Pops invented for this game, to the point that he is attempting to use it to bolster his case against Pops.

Guess I'll tweak my Cynicism-o-tron for future posting.

[Moratorium]

STD is too busy for MS, do we have a back-up mod?

Is this official, did you talk to him? Because if so, we need to go post something in the newbie thread or send a PM to Mr. Flay to get a replacement mod.

[Moratorium]

Any more opinions on investigation choices before the day ends?

[Moratorium]

Hey, SCUMBUDDY!

Wait a sec...

Jersey, why are you continuing to try and convince people that I am lying? The implication of saying this is that you are still trying to push that Barros is the real cop and that I'm not. But we've hammered. The truth about Barros's terrible counterclaim is imminent. And there's nothing that you can do about it. What do you expect to gain here?

"Hey everybody, I swear Pops and Mora are scum! I welcome investigation! If I'm wrong, may the skies open up and votes rain upon me!"
<Mod posts Day results, Barros flips scum>
<everyone votes Jersey>

Why do this now? Terrible, terrible play. Whether you are town or scum.

[Moratorium]

I don't see planning for tomorrow as bad play at all.

Strawman. There's a big problem with pursuing a case if we're in twilight. You are taking a risk that you are correct to pursue your case. If you are correct, great, you've potentially convinced more people. If you are wrong, you've done nothing but succeed in confusing town. Why not just wait until Day 3 to have this argument with Pops? We're in a state of the game where nothing you say right now can directly affect the vote, why do you insist on putting this out there now instead of waiting until after the flip so that you can say the same thing with an element of clout and understanding?

If you are scum, the answer is "because I'm trying to confuse town before Barros flips scum".

If you are town, the answer is "because I don't see the harm in it". Which is wrong. Wait until after the flip and learn from it first. Then go balls to the wall if you want.

You won't, though.

[Moratorium]

moratorium, who do you think you should investigate

Please tell me why revealing my investigation before Night 2 falls would benefit town more than scum.

[Moratorium]

Investigation was blocked. Meaning we have a doctor and a mafia roleblocker.

[Moratorium]

Moratorium you're alive, which means we have a doctor and mafia roleblocker...

Me being alive doesn't mean anything other than scum didn't target me. Mana_Ku was the one killed.

i'm most suspicious of jerseygoomba right now. His failure to pick up my sarcasm about him picking me for investigation makes me think he's phobic

I don't know about that, but he's the only player remaining alive who didn't vote for Barros. Not sure what that says about him really.

[Moratorium]

pops, you're confused.

Read post 385.

[Moratorium]

Please excuse the length of this post, it expresses everything I feel the need to say up to this point, including a player evaluation near the bottom.

I think pops was simply pointing out that there were two proofs of a mafia roleblocker being present...

Not to beat a dead horse, because it really doesn't matter, but me being alive doesn't prove anything. Scum could have just chosen not to kill me, instead taking a shot at killing the doctor (which, being as they knew there was a cop and a roleblocker in the game, is a role they knew for sure existed). But again, I'm just being an asshat by trying to get the last word in on this subject, so forget it.

What bugs me is the choice to kill mana_ku...

Makes sense to me because Mana_Ku wasn't being scummy. Everyone else in the game is, so best shot for scum to persist is to keep the confusion going. Mana_Ku was also a very neutral choice, as no one had any real "alliances" with him, so no one's going to care in particular that he's the one that died. +EV.

What if we make our town's policy to claim doc or not when you reach L-1? To me that's all the taste, none of the fat. We retain the 0% chance of lynching our doctor (counterclaiming the doctor today is instant loss), but we might make it through the whole day without exposing our doctor to the scum (which drops our odds of a successful protect tonight to 0.

So scum claims doctor, counterclaim from the real doctor, and according to you counterclaim is instant loss. Set a policy so that scum knows what rules it needs to follow to win. Great play.

So, the RB just randomly chooses a name to block until someone claims?

Well, randomly in the sense that Town "randomly" lynches someone every day, the RB "randomly" picks someone to roleblock, sure. The RB would go with the information they had at the time.

moratorium, who do you think you should investigate

Moratorium, out of curiosity, who did you attempt to investigate before it was blocked?

Ok, now, here's the central thesis of the problem that I'm having with this game. Jersey, you're now the second player to ask me about my investigations. There's only 1 scum left in the game, so that means that either you or guy0, and possibly both of you, are town. That's just a fact. So in this game, at least 1 town is trying to get the cop to reveal his investigation targets.

Do you not see that this is a bad deal for town? If I reveal my investigation choice, and it turns out that I'm picking scum correctly, scum is justified in maintaining his roleblock on me. If I reveal my investigation choice and it turns out that I'm picking a townie, scum could plausibly try roleblocking someone else and increase his chances at bypassing a doctor save.

What information are you going to gain, at all, in either getting me to reveal my investigation before Night falls, or even revealing my blocked investigation attempt once Day breaks? Either way, town gains nothing, scum gains information. "I'm just being curious" is all kinds of suspicious.

Am I being unclear about this? Please let me know because we're down to crunch time here and I need you guys on your toes.

It's a good time to hear everybody's opinion on everybody else.

Here's my honest opinion of the players, in alphabetical order.

Capricious

: Big write-up about my voting pattern on Day 1, votes me, I claim cop, he states "I believe Moratorium fully" and votes Barros 4 minutes after my claim. Too easy.

guy0

: Wants investigation choices revealed, probably the player that has expressed the most suspicions about my role in this game, in a potential attempt at saving Barros.

jerseygoomba

: Wants blocked investigations revealed, only player to maintain vote on scum on Day 2, entire logic of vote ("has everything to do with") based on investigation choice is a weak case, attempted to direct my investigation on the only player I've indicated I thought was innocent.

Moratorium

: Voting pattern on Day 1 put unnecessary confusion into the game for town, Claim on Day 2 worked out in general (traded 1 scum for 1 town and loss of cop ability) but I think not claiming and fighting my way out from under the votes might have worked better. Too much stupid use of bolding, font size, and other tags makes him look pretentious.

popsofctown

: Suspects me, suspects you, suspects Mr. Flay, suspects himself, suspects his mother, has opinions that conflict with mine, yours, his own, I could not begin to put together a coherent timeline of the thought process coming from this individual. Absolutely insane, jumps on every bandwagon in the game, creates cases while bandwagoning someone else, invents voting systems to further his inability to commit, couldn't be scummier if we buried him in the dump.

I think he's town.

TL;DR -> You're all scummy, and pops gets a pass because he's in the Special Olympics.

[Moratorium]

[quote=Moratorium]
only player to maintain vote on scum on Day 2
[/quote]

EBWOP: "only player NOT to maintain vote on scum on day 2"

[Moratorium]

and I broke the quote...



It's been a long day already.

[Moratorium]

We could be in a 2 goons, no cop, no roleblocker (and no doctor). Both Barros and Moratorium are scum and they agree to throw Barros under the bus. That would "prove" Moratorium's cop claim, and the investigation block last night puts fear of a roleblocker in town. Puts Moratorium in a VERY safe position with which to pick off the rest of town one by one without having to worry about being picked off himself. Why wouldn't the scum try to take out the cop last night if for no other reason than to flush out the doctor? Am I being neurotic?

Let me just point out the fact that a majority (3 out of 5) of the remaining players in this game know for a fact what the role makeup of this game is.

[Moratorium]

Oh and I really like the "give me your opinion on everyone" idea, and would like to see it from Capricious/Pops/Jersey. I think we will all learn a lot.

[Moratorium]

What I think jersey is trying to say is that there is still a tiny possibility that what he said is true, but it is HIGHLY unlikely, as it would have meant that the mafia gambled on the 1/3 chance that there was no other cop.

While I agree with this, the point I'm trying to make is that if jersey is town and is still trying to push this idea on the other three town, two of us immediately disagree based on the role makeup of the game. I'm not trying to convince you what to believe right now, I'm just telling you what I know.

And anyone suspecting Jersey of being the RB might possibly consider this play to be a blatant rolefish, to see which other player comes out and mounts a strong defense on my behalf, so that he knows who to NK tonight.

I'm not trying to continue my quest to get Moratorium lynched, I'm just trying to decide if I'm being to paranoid and should simply write off Moratorium as a true Townie cop and focus my energies at the rest of town.

Some people might read this as "Hey everyone, don't freak out, I may possibly change my mind in the near future, please don't suspect this act as being in any way anti-town."

Which inherently isn't necessarily scummy or townie. I'm just sayin'.

[Moratorium]

@doctor claiming policy: Moratorium, your playing that thing out wrong in your head. Two things can happen if a scum player reaches L-1.
a. He doesn't claim. Unless someone does something stupid (which could happen), in between L-1 and the hammer, we lynch him.
b. He falsely claims doctor. Doctor counterclaims. We lynch the counterclaimer. 3 town, 1 scum. Scum NK. 2 town, 1 scum. D3, two townies are looking at a scum who claimed doctor earlier, and we have a flipped doctor. Town wins.

Hey, that made sssseee....

ssseeeenn....

ssnnneeee....

seeeennneee...

ahem..

Hey, that made a heck of a lot of sssseeee....

*cough* AHEM

Boy, that thing that popsofctown just said made a lot of good seeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

...

Sorry, it's just not coming out.

...

Good point, pops.

[Moratorium]

EBWOP: I didn't write that quote, pops did. I'm an egotist.

[Moratorium]

I have just realized that Mana Ku was the one who replaced Chuck Norris, this is bad.

More please.

[Moratorium]

You're coming off as stalling.

[Moratorium]

It does come off that way, but i suspect he has a good reason for it. I'll allow it.

There's probably some pattern that jerseygoomba is producing...

Do you realise that you basically just

invented

a reason to reinforce your suspicions of jerseygoomba, while simultaneously lowering your suspicions of Capricious?

[Moratorium]

If Capricious is doing what i think he's doing...

You're guessing. At best.

[Moratorium]

I'm fine with:

a) No real doctor claim unless L-1.
b) If real doctor sees someone else claim doctor, make sure to counterclaim so that we have a guaranteed win for town by lynching both doctors.

Makes sense.

Still waiting on Capricious and Jerseygoomba's player evaluations.

[Moratorium]

Ok let's hear from everyone else. If you are doc, counterclaim now and we win by lynching both doctors. If no one counterclaims, Capricious is confirmed.

I am not counterclaiming doc.

[Moratorium]

Game has become quite binary for me at this point. Three people have to be trusted as town to win the game. I see myself and popsofctown as towns no matter what the circumstance.

A) If Jerseygoomba claims doctor, we lynch both "doctors" and win.

B) If Jerseygoomba claims town, then Capricious is truly the doctor, and since I trust myself and popsofctown, that leaves Jerseygoomba and Guy0.

Actually, that makes things easy for me now.

vote: Jerseygoomba

I'm not afraid of a quicklynch because tomorrow is automatic. If I'm the one that ends up getting killed at night, hopefully the remaining players will continue on with my plan as I've laid it out.

[Moratorium]

pops should be kept alive should guy0 be town

Honestly, am I stupid enough to claim doc as scum?

I am equally confirmed as Moratorium.

Sounds to me like you know who your three trusted players are.

Vote please. It's just a logical puzzle now, and jersey's flip seals the way to go.

Search your feelings, you know this to be true.

/vader

[Moratorium]

vote: guy0

Sorry, no, I've already made my own read-through of players, if pops is scum he deserves to win through sheer rainman-esque tendencies.

Cross your fingers, town.

[Moratorium]

ack stop kissing me

[Moratorium]

I read it, and I actually read the entire game again.

So pops, are you town? Did town just win?

[Moratorium]

I'm town.

[Moratorium]

Tbh, you guys took way too long to lynch Barros >=(

I tried.

Also, what is an Eek, how do you milk it, and why do you own one?

[Moratorium]

I had a lot of fun with this game, thanks everyone. Quick personal address to each of you:

Barros

, I think you were in a tight spot as far as putting together a viable counterclaim, and did the best you could. I also suspect that perhaps english isn't your first language? Others may not have picked up on this and instead might have interpreted any spelling/grammar as nervousness. That's just a guess.

Capricious

, I totally didn't catch on that you were the doctor (which only made sense what with your sense of certainty about everything once you knew the roles on Day 2), although to be honest I didn't know if there was a doctor at all until the last two days. As such, you were my biggest suspect on Day 2 (I investigated you N2) because I really didn't think through how someone could come to completely trust my claim in 4 minutes.

guy0

, I actually didn't much have a read on you as to whether you stuck out more than, say, Jersey, as the last mafia. That, fortunately for me, stopped mattering once I saw pops as town, and Capricious' claim crystalized in my head. In general, over the course of the game, you did what you needed to do to keep yourself out of too much trouble. I also kinda felt bad that you'd gone through the trouble to put together that big post at the end, knowing that it was for nothing since we had out minds made up already. But if we hadn't made our minds up, that post still seemed very "you're only posting this now??" to me, too little too late i thought.

Jerseygoomba:

Sorry we had to lynch you Jersey, but we were at a point in the game where we just had to go through the motions and kill the two people we found guiltiest. So when I read this...

Guys,
Ive been sick and havent had the energy to check in. Im not sure if Im L-1 or actually dead.

EIther way, the town is screwed, because you are lynching the wrong guy.

If I'm dead, its not worth posting why, so let me know if I am to bother reading the past two days of posts. Mock me all you want, but I GUARANTEE you have lynched a Townie.
If I'm at L-1, let me know.

...I guess I was a little sad that you didn't see what we were doing. Lynching you was a winning move, either you or guy0 had to be town, so we were lynching both of you in the final two days. So you got lynched. And you won. Congrats!

Mana Ku

, about that PM you sent me during this game about my wife, although she doesn't play anymore she ended up reading this game almost as much as I did.

My Milked Eek

, was sad to see you get killed because I thought you were town and you had a habit of posting with lots of deliberative answers to questions, particularly with pops. I guess in this newbie game none of us newbies had much for questions for you and Capricious.

Young Eric

, all your name does it remind me of how crappy of a D1 we as town had, and me in particular. My tone on D1 was very aggressive, and I had it in my head that both you and pops were scum and that was it. I was too hard-headed about it, and once I started getting votes on me on Day 2, felt like I'd singlehandedly blown the game for town, which is what the post 164 claim was born from. Without that claim, good chance I'm lynched Day 2, and probably an overall loss for town. So Young Eric, thanks buddy, you set me straight by not defending yourself enough to not get lynched.

And finally, Mr. Flay

, we all appreciate that you took over this game from STD, and I look forward to your final day of flavor, if only because it totally confuses you (bagels for brakes?).

[Moratorium]

Oh and I forgot one:

popsofctown

, in the end, in a painful bit of irony, your personality in the game actually ended up being a benefit because it allowed Capricious and I to discount you as possible scum, immediately eliminating several endgame scenarios and making things pretty easy at the end.

A lot easier than, say, lynching Barros, for example.

GG all.

[Moratorium]

Guy0, what did you two use to communicate at night? Can you post your night conversation with Barros?

[Moratorium]

two experienced players had iron confidence in my innocence by the end of the game.

Well, thank you for "experienced". Was my second completed game of mafia.

[Moratorium]

My investigations were:

N1: Barros (guilty)
N2: Capricious (blocked)
N3: guy0 (blocked)

[Moratorium]

Is this activity typical?