Mini Normal 1989: A Perfectly Normal Day -- Game Over

[Havo]

I would say I'm blacklisting chumba but we all know he will just fire up some more alts soon anyways

Nice new avi. lol.

[insanity018]

thanx for the game insanity!

i'm a fan of more straightforward setups like this one

You're welcome! So am I, especially for a Normal game.

i'm a fan of more straightforward setups like this one

This was literally one of the shortest review threads we've ever had--literally the only change from the original setup was changing the roleblocker to two-shot; we finished the review in less than a page.

I think I leapfrogged 2-3 people in the queue because the review was so fast

[profii]

Anyways thanks for the game everyone and especially Insanity. The dead thread was the cooler place to hang out though


‘Til we meet again

[Katyusha]

I'm actually a super easy read and I'm surprised that not many ppl have picked up on it but that could just be due to this site being alot of bad players. Not to toot my own horn or anything but I was like super spot on in LYLO. I also had the flu most of d1 so that's why I wasn't super active early on.

this is true, nero was like the 3rd player i could read off of meta alone

chumba, i think by "proactive" people aren't necessarily talking about activity and quantity, but also the quality and nuance of what they're contributing. nero's posting improved significantly late game

fwiw also in general chumba i think the important thing about both of our play (just from what we've played together and what i've seen from spectating games) that we need to work on is differentiating which reads of ours are good and which are bad. like in newbie 1832, we were pretty in-sync and both saw the gamestate in really similar ways (Fung/PA scum) but defaulted to the wrong read for the D1 lynch. what made those reads different? why should we have went for fung over PA? i'm still trying to figure out what the pattern is for my good scumreads (like, Alban in Open 675, Fung in 1832, Nero in Normal 1917 for some examples off the top of my head in terms of reads i was spot-on for the entire time) and why those reads work, and why the ones that are usually wrong are wrong.

like i can kind of get an intuitive sense of what's worth sheeping from players i'm familiar with - i can tell when creature is just making a read entirely off of paranoia and when he's making a good read that I overlooked sometimes, as an example. or i know which of house's reads (he's permabanned for good reason lol but still i know his meta super well) are trash and which are worth talking about. surely the same must be for myself, right?

just food for thought because i was thinking about you specifically in this regard just a while ago. i think when you don't focus on minutiae on what town "should/shouldn't do" you have good reads, otherwise yeah you can get tunneled in the wrong way and you're aware of this.

more relevantly, i was just watching but i loved the flavor here, and the setup was just right! i'm kind of tired of seeing mason triplets and nothing else since i think that setup was run a few times recently, having some extra protective and investigation was a nice touch.

[insanity018]

more relevantly, i was just watching but i loved the flavor here, and the setup was just right! i'm kind of tired of seeing mason triplets and nothing else since i think that setup was run a few times recently, having some extra protective and investigation was a nice touch.

Thanks!

[Chumba]

like i can kind of get an intuitive sense of what's worth sheeping from players i'm familiar with

I don't sheep, I also don't try to rely on meta either (1. because meta is easily manipulated, that's how I play so good as scum and 2. I don't really pay attention to people's tendencies that much. I have a shitty memory when it comes to that kind of thing.)

with that being said, had I used meta my scum reads would be havo/tchill/profil. neither of them played to their town meta this game. tchill is the only one I can understand, he was a mason and masons almost always look like scum.

somehow I need to be able to tell the difference between town playing poorly/scummy and actual scum. I don't know if I will ever be able to do that when so many townies play poorly/scummy.

[Joey_]

Mulch, please stop. I think it is enough that chumba saw that they played badly and said they will improve.
Chumba, please notice that it is also you playstyle that is under criticism here.
If you play like an asshole(which was your own definition of your play) then that disrupts town.

I get it. I’ll try yet again go dial it back. I just see scummy behavior and push it. Would make it easier if people stopped doing scummy things

You dont get it do you? It wasnt scummy, you just misread everyone and pushes town for what you expect is town play. You are the most rigid and conservative mafia player i have ever met and that is the complete opposite of what a good player is : flexible and sensitive

[Joey_]

@joey. Who is your other account?

Cloudkicker

Btw about havo’s play, you asked me what is the town motivation in misreping. You actually have to ask yourself if it is really misrepping, why wouldn’t havo actually believe that you are a better player than tunnelling? Is it more an opinion or a fact ? Disagreeing on opinion isnt lying, its just that, disagreeing

[Chumba]

It was scummy to me.

[Chumba]

@joey. Who is your other account?

Cloudkicker

Btw about havo’s play, you asked me what is the town motivation in misreping. You actually have to ask yourself if it is really misrepping, why wouldn’t havo actually believe that you are a better player than tunnelling? Is it more an opinion or a fact ? Disagreeing on opinion isnt lying, its just that, disagreeing

And if it’s a fact?

Tunneling is unfortunately my playstyle and he knows this.

So now that it’s a fact that I’m not better than tunneling what does it make it?

An opinion still or a misrep/lie?

[Joey_]

He didn’t lie, he had a different opinion of you than you have of yourself. Then you pushed the lie thingy and he off course denied the lie (and still denies it). Anyway, lets move on. Also assume that most often then not, misunderstanding are genuine misunderstanding and rarely are alignement indicative

[Joey_]

@joey. Who is your other account?

Cloudkicker

Btw about havo’s play, you asked me what is the town motivation in misreping. You actually have to ask yourself if it is really misrepping, why wouldn’t havo actually believe that you are a better player than tunnelling? Is it more an opinion or a fact ? Disagreeing on opinion isnt lying, its just that, disagreeing

And if it’s a fact?

Tunneling is unfortunately my playstyle and he knows this.

So now that it’s a fact that I’m not better than tunneling what does it make it?

An opinion still or a misrep/lie?

You dont know what havo believes or not, you judges this as if he meant to “lie”. Different perspectives

[Chumba]

So now you don’t even make sense.

If it’s an opinion it’s not a lie. If it’s a fact it’s not one either?

You were better off not even saying anything at all to me.

P.edit - I do know what he believes. He said what he truly believes later in the game. That I’m a tunneler.

Covered that already.

[Chumba]

@Chumba

EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOUR TUNNELING GARBAGE LEADS TOO!!!!!!!!!

WE HAVE ALL SEEN IT BEFORE AND ITS WRONG 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!!

This is what he believes.

[Joey_]

Alright i didnt read the thread when i replaced in anyway

[Chumba]

So. While it was shitty for me to lie to lynch him. He lied first. I know 2 wrongs don’t make a right but he started it.

I’ll try not to tunnel anymore but it’s going to seriously affect my gameplay

[schadd_]

Cloudkicker

oo!

[schadd_]

i listened to your album and i only really liked the first track which is just a bunch of guitar

[Havo]

@Chumba

EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOUR TUNNELING GARBAGE LEADS TOO!!!!!!!!!

WE HAVE ALL SEEN IT BEFORE AND ITS WRONG 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!!

This is what he believes.

The whole problem is I GAVE YOU TOO MUCH CREDIT.

Yes I know you tunnel at times. But NO, I didn’t know it was like this. This was the what, third game I’ve played with you since coming back? You didn’t do this in the other ones. And back in the day I never saw you tunnel someone this hard. Since 6/7 years ago? I have never seen you tunnel someone to this point. EVER. From a day 1 read on top of it all, which you openly agree Day 1 reads are super weak. I thought you were a better player than to do this. I thought you had enough sense to re-evaluate. Obviously I was wrong. You simply lack the capacity to step back and see another point of view. I did not lie. From my POV everything I said was the truth. I had zero motivation to lie. Even I came around to town reading Ethos by the end of our 1v1.

I WILL NEVER MAKE THE MISTAKE AGAIN OF CALLING YOU A GOOD PLAYER. No worries there.

And I am done. Once again with this.

[Mulch]

May we gain strength from the lord

[schadd_]

lmfol

[Chumba]

That’s all good after the game is over havo. I didn’t have the knowledge during the game that you simply made a couple mistakes and had a bad memory of my play. You didn’t admit to them during the game and because of that I felt they were intentional. Had you done that things would have gone differently.

[Mulch]

And he blessed us upon this holy day

[Katyusha]

like i can kind of get an intuitive sense of what's worth sheeping from players i'm familiar with

I don't sheep, I also don't try to rely on meta either (1. because meta is easily manipulated, that's how I play so good as scum and 2. I don't really pay attention to people's tendencies that much. I have a shitty memory when it comes to that kind of thing.)

with that being said, had I used meta my scum reads would be havo/tchill/profil. neither of them played to their town meta this game. tchill is the only one I can understand, he was a mason and masons almost always look like scum.

somehow I need to be able to tell the difference between town playing poorly/scummy and actual scum. I don't know if I will ever be able to do that when so many townies play poorly/scummy.

I think you missed my point entirely- I’m suggesting that from my experience as a meta-y player I can assess the quality of reads from some people due to patterns I see in their play. Thus, it has to be possible to do that to myself

I figured seeing where you tend to go wrong and where you tend to go right (more former than latter) and trying to establish the patterns can help you calibrate your read accuracy more

It’s got nothing to do with using meta to read people or sheeping others

[Nero Cain]

Ima just throw this out there if anyone besides Chumba wants to play

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=4650