Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[Scioness Sajj]

in orrhz and skitter cases there would be bussing yeah. and there is nothing that disconnects you from ruru.

[Oxy]

so of those three, are you scum reading anyone?

[Oxy]

actually, I'm also interested in whether or not you're town reading any of those three.

[Scioness Sajj]

There is a lot of poe involved in my 'reads' right now.

NSG is about 85% confirmed to me by Mathdino's flip. I need to do some more reading on Pintu but my own read + NSG towntell make him close to jumping into conf/obv town category.

And rest of you is there becuase there is nothing that can make me sure you are town.

Like skitter is super towny on her own. I find her unvote to be towny but if I think about ruru's vote on drixx and that ruru vs skitter (voteless) then there is nothing I can think of that would disprove it being staged.
Ofrhz is also pretty towny on his own but his voting patterns on her are weird. Like he was dropping his votes from her really fast when he was scumreading her but also parked the vote on her for quite long time wihtout interacting with her.
And you know how I feel about you. You defending ruru and calling her obv!town still is like wifom.

[Oxy]

I find her unvote to be towny but

if I think about ruru's vote on drixx and that ruru vs skitter (voteless) then there is nothing I can think of that would disprove it being staged.

Like he was dropping his votes from her really fast when he was scumreading her but also parked the vote on her for quite long time wihtout interacting with her.

Could you please go into more detail here?

[ofrhz]

You are impling here that you wanted people to scumread ruru with you but you never made a case on her or tried to convince people to vote ruru.
Also - why were you upset that my case on ruru went in so late when you have already said you stopped scumleaning on her? 778 you have unvoted ruru for a reason stated below skitter's quote or no reason given at all. 895 you said you are townleaning her.

I usually question the person I'm voting for, which I did with ruru. The thing with ruru was, her D1 answers were always in the realm of "believable but iffy." But I shouldn't have to give a 5 paragraph essay with quotes on why I think ruru is scum, because I personally find those hard to read. I know you like to vote someone and write a convincing case on someone and that's fine, but I don't play like that. I feel like most of this is you being like "omg ofrhz has a different playstyle than me."

I was annoyed because wagons can't form if we jump on and off; not only does ruru not feel much pressure, but other people pay attention to other things like NSG who had three(?) votes on her at the same time.

I unvoted ruru because I didn't think there was going to be any pressure on her and wanted town to focus on something. I was basically nullreading ruru because I was unsure at 895. She had answered my questions and yours by that point.

[ofrhz]

@skitter - what are the viable scumteams with ruru in it?

[Oxy]

I would think town!SS would have preferred a no-lynch in general. She's saying Oxy and I are quite scummy and there's 834. So, if the first Drixx wagon was comprised of scum!Oxy and/or scum!ruru then why would she call Drixx a low info flip in 935? And then hammer him anyway despite not scumreading him. It doesn't add up to me.

I really like this. I wish you would take a look at some more of her read progression from D1 because I think you would do a better job articulating any odd moments that you find better than I would.

[ofrhz]

I'm not really interested in pursuing a ruru lynch, since the suggested ruru scumteams so far have been hilariously desperate. So do you still wwant me to take another look at ruru? I'll do it if you want, but I also said I would do an ISO on pin and reread Scioness as you suggested earlier, so this will have to come later because I'm also not feeling that well today.

[ofrhz]

^ I just realized I never explicitly said I think ruru is town. For the record, ruru is town by reverse PoE or something.

Scioness suggested these ruru scumteams:

- skitter - I feel like if skitter and ruru were to stage a 1v1, they could do better than skitter's "I'm gut-scumleaning ruru but I can't explain why" and ruru's "OMG skitter sucks because she keeps misunderstanding me and Oxy!!!!" Like who would stage something like that? this pairing isn't very likely to me for those reasons.
- Oxy - Scioness is willing to sheep Mathdino on NSG but not willing to sheep Mathdino's most confident town read? ..........??? I'm not even going to entertain this because I was independently townreading Oxy before Mathdino even showed up to the game.
- me - This is Scioness's most plausible ruru scumteam. The best thing I can do here is to try to convince her that I'm town. But if Scioness is scum and she wants to push through a ruru lynch, she's probably going to have to scum read me no matter what. So really I'm just going to be defending myself for everyone else in the game.

y'all seem pretty convinced NSG is town, so VOTE: Scioness Sajj. Every scumteam I can think of has Scioness in it. This reason is in addition to those ^ really bad scumteams she suggested.

[ruru]

I'm going to quote every thing that pinged me from ofrhz this day because Dino didn't townread him and I want to confirm that he (Dino) was wrong:

This post is kinda weird and doesn't really feel like your reactions are confirming your ofrhz read.

"I'm willing to fucking lose to scum skitter30" - "her scumgames onsite are horribly outdated"

Cold meta

Why asking an hypothetical PR to check skitter if she's prob!town from his perspective?

I do think dino was townleaning skitter, at least toward the end of day 1, but I also agree with a lot of this post. And underestimating the other players in the game seems like a really easy way to lose.

This is pretty spot on. Skitter is good enough to take it to a win though.

It was a him-or-her situation and he knew he was town so I guess this shouldn't be read too deeply into but yeah.

[ruru]

What makes you think that?

I think odds are at least one scum was on the wagon.

Why did you want to lynch me yesterday, and why do you want to lynch me now?

Bolded is kinda shallow. Like it's a generic observation that kinda shades the whole wagon without actually doing anything to find the scum that you think might be on the wagon.

Maybe I wanted to hear ofrhz's reasoning? Context matters. I don't know why you're just bolding one part of the post here.

1157 - ruru, why aren't you talking about my vote on drixx? Why are you focusing on scioness's?

It was looking like you or him. If you're town, you don't know he's town, so obviously you prefer he gets lynched. If you're scum, you know he's town, so obviously you prefer he gets lynched.

(Also I was trying to do other things with my vote. There's no point in trying to lynch the person I find scummiest when we have like 3 AFKs.)

Um, the point of the game is to lynch the person you find scummiest, not the 3 afks?

??????????

I wanted to get the AFKs to talk before lynching anyone how do you STILL not understand this if you're town

Like the deadline was rapidly approaching. There was a wagon on me. You've been scumreading me for like a week and half. I basically told people to vote me. And you're not voting me cuz you want to vote an afk just before deadline when there's a wagon on like your biggest scumread.

When did I do this?? I was having some doubts about SS but I voted on you. Your posts are making less and less sense as the game progresses...

[Scioness Sajj]

me: basically poe'd down possible scum teams (excluding Pintu and NSG)
ofrhz: hilariously desperate scum teams with ruru MUST BE SCUM

[Scioness Sajj]

Oxy - I don't know what details you want from the skitter/ruru quote.

ofrhz/ruru - his first vote on her was becuase of some rvs thing iirc and was parked there for long for no reason, then he reminded himself that he has no reason to townread her and voted again and dropped pretty fast becuase he wasn't scum reading her anymore.

[Oxy]

I would think town!SS would have preferred a no-lynch in general. She's saying Oxy and I are quite scummy and there's 834. So, if the first Drixx wagon was comprised of scum!Oxy and/or scum!ruru then why would she call Drixx a low info flip in 935? And then hammer him anyway despite not scumreading him. It doesn't add up to me.

I really like this. I wish you would take a look at some more of her read progression from D1 because I think you would do a better job articulating any odd moments that you find better than I would.

I'm not really interested in pursuing a ruru lynch, since the suggested ruru scumteams so far have been hilariously desperate. So do you still wwant me to take another look at ruru? I'll do it if you want, but I also said I would do an ISO on pin and reread Scioness as you suggested earlier, so this will have to come later because I'm also not feeling that well today.

Ah, lol - this is actually directed at Ruru. I don't think I'm lynching ruru today without a red check or something

[skitter30]

Yeah this. I think scioness' progression up to her drixx vote makes a lot of sense given the context.

----

@skitter - what are the viable scumteams with ruru in it?

Possible ruru partners, based on interactions, in order: oxy; pin/NSG; ofrzh; scioness.

This is solely based on how well they make sense in the context of being a partner with ruru, and not in the context of how likely I think they are to be town independent of that.

I'm having a really hard time trusting math's read on oxy rn. The most compelling reason for me to townread oxy is that if oxy's scum, his partner likely would have told him to tone down the LAMIST stuff. I'm still trying to decide if I trust this, and I'm tending towards yes even though my gut tells me not to.

Like logically he's probably town but my gut tells me otherwise and I'm trying to reconcile that.

I see nothing to rule out pin/ruru or nsg/ruru on associatives. I'm probably going to trust Math on NSG but pin's townread has become a bit weaker cuz of PoE.

Ofrzh probably not a partner with ruru given how he keeps on circling back to voting her. Like it's distancing but not enough for me to completely discount them as partners.

I don't think scioness starts a major push on ruru just before deadline when she wasn't going to be around.

So viable scumteams with ruru that I'm actually considering: oxy, pin, ofrzh. Except I'm kinda townreading all of them.

The problem is that I'm kinda townreading like everyone except her to some degree or another so like I know I have to be wrong somewhere.

Also until we get a scumflip I try to focus on individual scumminess and not choose who to vote based on associatives; I've gotten screwed over a lot trying to vote on associatives instead of focusing on an individual player's scumminess.

Aside, I really don't feel scum!scioness right now tbh.

[Oxy]

Like logically he's probably town but my gut tells me otherwise and I'm trying to reconcile that.

Have you eaten any sketchy seafood lately? That could explain your upset stomach. Outside of maybe perhaps me, do you have any scum reads, by poe or otherwise? Or are those Pin/Sajj (but not sajj right now)?

[ruru]

from my POV, I'm town, Math is town, skitter and Oxy are very likely town, so Scioness is the only one that could be scum. I'm kind of on the fence about Scioness, she was okay up until her "We must lynch skitter today" thought process which made no sense.

I would think town!SS would have preferred a no-lynch in general. She's saying Oxy and I are quite scummy and there's 834. So, if the first Drixx wagon was comprised of scum!Oxy and/or scum!ruru then why would she call Drixx a low info flip in 935? And then hammer him anyway despite not scumreading him. It doesn't add up to me.

Why would you even think that when I was first person to question Mathdino's no lynch idea? The rest of your arguement is ignoring that I couldn't wagon you alone and the time issue we had with the lynch that was talked about.

I don't understand the setup well enough to say for sure, but if I had the reads you said you had, I would have preferred a no lynch or at least tried to advocate the idea for a bit so others could tell me why I'm wrong.

If you're scum, doing some weird delayed announcement of your vote even though you already decided it only increases town's disorganization. If you're scum with skitter, it actually makes perfect sense that you wouldn't want to be involved in skitter vs. Drixx until you realized Drixx wouldn't get lynched without your help.

She never answered 850 (or 1004) and I feel like it's pretty relevant to the game state considering she was leaving her vote on me and a last minute wagon even formed on me afterward

Not relevant to do game state, relevant to you. I left my vote there because I find you scummy, that's what I'm supposed to do when I think I have found scum, vote them. [/quote]

How is a vote and a big wall case (which didn't make sense at all, and that you still haven't addressed) on a player who could conceivably get lynched not relevant to the game state?

I feel like you even engaging on my case is proof of you being a scum.

You weren’t interested in finding out why ofrhz voted you, you barely bothered with him. But when I made a case on you you felt a need to defend yourself even though you thought the case was weak and made by confused town/scum.

I'm actually pretty sure I don't need to explain this anymore

And now you are pushing the ‘I'm the victim narrative’.

Please show us example of me pushing an "I'm the victim narrative".

The wagon on you formed because of your vote on skitter not my case.

That's why ofrhz voted. But why did

you

vote?

[ofrhz]

@scioness- That’s just basic deduction. Like do you still think ruru and skitter are a thing? They were slinging mud at each other just now. And this is all staged you say?

I’ve quite clearly told you in D1 why my vote was parked on ruru. I have said why I voted her again, and

for like the third time, I unvoted her because town was being dysfunctional and it would’ve been more productive to work with others to lynch likely partners of ruru instead of pursuing ruru by myself.

Oh my god, haven’t read pedits.

[ruru]

Gonna try looking from another angle. I was thinking that Math being targeted night 1 was odd. Like I had a feeling he wasn’t a PR based on how he took control of the game from the outset, and the only other reason to lynch him otherwise is his ability to game solve.

Who do you think should have been a nk then?

Scummy post...

[skitter30]

In post 817, Drixx wrote:
This is pretty spot on. Skitter is good enough to take it to a win though.

It was a him-or-her situation and he knew he was town so I guess this shouldn't be read too deeply into but yeah.

Scum!drixx basically said the exact same thing about me the last time we played so like that line set off major red flags to me tbh.

------

It was looking like you or him. If you're town, you don't know he's town, so obviously you prefer he gets lynched. If you're scum, you know he's town, so obviously you prefer he gets lynched.

Right, so I obviously didn't want to get lynched, but I feel like you aren't actually trying to figure out which of the two scenarios you outlined was happening. Like I feel like you're looking for scum on the wagon and like you scumread me, but you aren't trying to figure out the motivation of my vote.

------

??????????

I wanted to get the AFKs to talk before lynching anyone how do you STILL not understand this if you're town

When did I do this?? I was having some doubts about SS but I voted on you. Your posts are making less and less sense as the game progresses...

Given the fact that the start of 1178 is clearly talking about my analysis of the gamestate in 1003 and your vote on me just before deadline, I assumed that the parenthesis at the end of 1178 was also talking about your vote on me just before deadline. Since that's apparently not what you meant, what were you referring to in the parenthesis at the end of 1178?

------

Ah, lol - this is actually directed at Ruru. I don't think I'm lynching ruru today without a red check or something

I disagree with a significant number of the posts you're using to townread her and I explained why. I don't understand why you're townreading her this strongly.

[skitter30]

Like logically he's probably town but my gut tells me otherwise and I'm trying to reconcile that.

Have you eaten any sketchy seafood lately? That could explain your upset stomach. Outside of maybe perhaps me, do you have any scum reads, by poe or otherwise? Or are those Pin/Sajj (but not sajj right now)?

I said it a few lines down. The only person I'm actively scumreading is ruru, which means I'm wrong on my townreads somewhere but I don't know where.

[skitter30]

Gonna try looking from another angle. I was thinking that Math being targeted night 1 was odd. Like I had a feeling he wasn’t a PR based on how he took control of the game from the outset, and the only other reason to lynch him otherwise is his ability to game solve.

Who do you think should have been a nk then?

Scummy post...

I don't think so tbh. The nk was likely to be math or maybe oxy last night imo. There weren't that many nks that made much sense given the gamestate.

[ofrhz]

I do think Scioness asking me who the nk should have been was scummy. It was indirectly asking me who I thought the PRs were.

[ofrhz]

Ruru/pin is a possibility that I discounted earlier but can’t remember why now