Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

[the worst]

and I'm gonna go sleep rather than respond to my brass vs. Nauci question back at you in detail.

if you do have the time, I'd appreciate if you could respond to some of the more pro-town reads on her. if you want more from me here please just ask.

[Thor665]

@Worst - I will just smile and nod at your wall of effort in #247, because in #248 you actually address the question I've been asking and finally answer it. I could go back and quote how every time you're complaining about my shade I keep repeating the question I'm actually asking, and I'll note that you never answer that question until now.

I understand you feel I'm the one causing the communication breakdown.
I massively disagree - and if I am, why is it only now that you answer the question you apparently knew I was asking while saying I'm the one being a jerk about the whole affair?

To answer why I don't see them as anything but evasive - if you call them NAI while also calling them evasive, I feel you're claiming they're scumtells. I see them as NAI in the full sense of that statement, and I don't see that slot providing less comapared to a number of other slots, so calling out him and not others feels weird. I don't like the double standard implicit in that, and now that I have your examples I'll do some compare/contrast and get back to you later perhaps.

thor it's not even necessarily that BG claim is utterly awful
i'm almost positive it doesn't change EV at all; it doesn't change claiming strategy because the IC's death will just confirm lack of BG

But wouldn't that provide a 2nd confirmed town - something you would functionally argue is super good?

the point is that there's no universe in which town-you thinks that's a good idea

I'm not saying I do (feel free to quote where I have)
I'm asking why you don't.

also i literally modded this setup and then called the D1 BG claim stupid

You did - how is it different than a Newbie Tracker D1 claim exactly now that an IC is established?
I'll agree that without an IC it is inherently stupid.
But with one?

[Thor665]

if you do have the time, I'd appreciate if you could respond to some of the more pro-town reads on her. if you want more from me here please just ask.

The extent of the Nauci town case really is;

She is playing outside her scumrange (not supported)
Her playstyle apologies/friendliness isn't inherently scummy (an argument for a null read not a town read)
She's asking questions/driving for answers (while the same people saying stuff like this are claiming I'm not - a strange standard I have a hard time wrapping my head around)

And...that's about all i can think of really.
The town case on her looks flakier/at best equally as solid as the scum case on her.
I disagree with it, but at least I'm not suggesting anyone is dumb for thinking it while I'm casting shade and being disagreeable.

What else is there to discuss?

[Thor665]

@Math - like, with an IC in play, a bodyguard is a derp to not protect said IC, and scum are derp not to shoot said IC.
Therefore Bodyguard is dead and flipped Day 1, meaning hiding claim is pointless and wastes scumhunting effort, yeah?
Town could have 2 basically confirmed town right now.
That's basically your Newbie "break" yeah? Confirmed town and better town focus with meaningless PR reveals.

[Mathdino]

I don't think you understand the point of my newbie break

[MariaR]

yawn

VOTE: Beef

[Mathdino]

Tracker is 2/3 of the time impossible to kill
Claiming makes them either immune or makes them eat a shot for the cop
Like this discussion is so hilariously irrelevant to any sense of good strategy lol

[the worst]

The wall was a contextual response to the last paragraph of your last post - me literally explaining how the communication breakdown happened fmpov.

In review I explained both where I misunderstood you, and how you did nearly nothing to make me realise it and as much as you could to come across as superior. I'll try and make an effort to come to your level where I can, and appreciate you doing the same.

brass was a better starting place than Nauci by far imo

pedit: YES THAT'S IT
I'll have a reread with that lens tomorrow.

pedit#2: if we run up scum today I'd rather weaken their ability to fakeclaim. I think I spoke about it briefly earlier but last time I played this setup an obvscum rolled the dice in claiming roleblocker pretty early and lived to endgame due to low PR count :\

On the flipside, BG outed themselves as BG but did no breadcrumbing of their target. On the contrary they expressly said they'd be protecting outside of their stated townreads.

Guess who inadvertantly causes a soft guilty & mislynch?

[the worst]

yawn

VOTE: Beef

wake up

What do you think of Wisdom brass and Thor?

[Mathdino]

For context people should ISO me and thor in newbie 1856 to see why

1. My break was different from asking the BG to claim (WHICH I'M ON RECORD AS A MODERATOR FOR THINKING IS BAD)
2. Thor as town would call that idea utterly idiotic
NGL I think thor is fishing for pr tells
This discussion only ends badly

[Mathdino]

yawn

VOTE: Beef

wake up

What do you think of Wisdom brass and Thor?

Brass doesn't get d1 lynched imo

[MariaR]

yawn

VOTE: Beef

wake up

What do you think of Wisdom brass and Thor?

Will answer after work
Why those 3 names and not my vote itself

[the worst]

yawn

VOTE: Beef

wake up

What do you think of Wisdom brass and Thor?

Will answer after work
Why those 3 names and not my vote itself

Next 3 people I'm going to think about

That vote isn't as interesting to talk about imo. If you do have some interesting thoughts about Beef share em!

[Thor665]

@Math - please explain the concept of how a Tracker not dying matters one whit to a situation where you (I presume) agree that the BG is dead tomorrow unless he obligates scum into a suboptimal kill?
Like, I agree the BG won't get protected but...like...so what? Isn't his point to die?

Or just walk me through how a BG claim is bad - something you keep stating but haven't actually explained.
I'm dumb, as you keep calling me - so walk me through it like a dunce.
Why do you, AS A MODERATOR ON RECORD think it's a bad idea?

[Thor665]

VOTE: Mathdino

[Mathdino]

Oh boy
I gave you your opportunity to go post in my MD thread about the setup and you did not
Incidentally the setup is even more broken than we'd imagined but that's beside the point

I'm stating 2 opinions that I've held on record outside of this thread
You don't actually believe that's alignment indicative my dude
This was a leading interrogation from the start

I'm done with this discussion, sorry, there's a limit to my desire to fill the thread with bad setup spec

[Mathdino]

Like, if you wanna talk to me about setup spec and breaking strategies some other time, feel free
That's irrelevant though

1. Everyone agrees its a bad idea. You clearly don't actually think it's a good idea.

2. I'm on record elsewhere for saying it's a bad idea. I also literally played as a bodyguard and did not claim d1.

3. I never use fake setup spec to my advantage in an open game as scum. Why the fuck would I do that? You accused me of the same shit in fferyllts game and I told you that same thing

4. You thinking this is alignment indicative for me is fake as hell. This is a process to build up to voting me based on a shit profile of "things town Mathdino would think".

[Mathdino]

and did not claim d1.

Tried not to claim that is
I ended up forced to

[Thor665]

Was there an IC?

[Thor665]

I'll take a link to your discussion thread on this if you can - I found your autopsy thread but it's not in there as far as I can see.

[Mathdino]

The fuck does it matter? What's your argument? That town Mathdino always asks BG to claim? I'VE BEEN AN IC IN THIS SETUP BEFORE.

[Thor665]

Well, to a minor extent it maters for personal curiosity.

To a greater extent, it kind of matters to me because it's a very simple question to my mind "why don't you think X should do Y with Z in play?" to which you've responded with deflection, vitriol, multiple posts, and absolutely are avoiding just answering.

Like, even if you want me to go read a different thread for the answer - give me the name of the thread so I can find it - and then if I can't find Bodyguard/IC setup discussion I can at least throw that in your face, or I will find my answer and you can throw that in mine.

Or you can keep dodging for...no apparent reason I can think of unless I'm right and you're scum.
Yeah?

[HeWhoSwims]

VC1.5

Mathdino (2) (L-5):

Beefster, Thor665

Nauci (1) (L-6):

jmo16mla

brassherald (1) (L-6):

Nauci

Thor665 (4) (L-3):

Espeonage, Wisdom, Mathdino, Judge Joseph Dredd

Beefster (3) (L-4):

the worst, brassherald, MariaR

Not voting (1) :

UglyDuck

With 12 alive, 7 votes are needed to lynch.

[HeWhoSwims]

Beefster's, brassherald's and Nauci's V/LA periods have ended.

Due to a mod error in my prod PM, jmo16mla will have 24 hours to pick up his prod counting from

now

[jmo16mla]

I was posting too much, now I'm posting too little. I see how it is.