Newbie 1859 (Game Over)

[Scioness Sajj]

the last is also the one that you have explained to her, from the block of posts that I've been quoting.

[ofrhz]

I haven’t read them that closely for accuracy, but the last few posts sound like they’re coming from frustrated town.

@oxy- yeah I figured I’d ask since you asked everybody to comment. I think that is helpful advice. Unfortunately I don’t really think I want to lynch Scioness anymore, so there goes my scumread

[ofrhz]

*last few Scioness posts

[ofrhz]

To elaborate, I think Scioness feels vilified(?) by how people have been interpreting her. She’s spewed a bunch of things that clearly has been bothering her because she just posted a stream of consciousness without editing any of it. That feels distinctly town in a way bc scum would probably be more careful when posting these things. And I’m not sure scum would react so indignantly to perceived false accusations bc scum knows they’re making stuff up.

[Oxy]

@ofrhz you read sajj's other game. Did her posts feel careful?

[Oxy]

I love the read, it's my kind of read

but is stream of consciousness and indignation outside of her scum range?

[ofrhz]

Actually yeah at one point she self voted out of “frustration” in that game. But this feels... different in a way, like she’s not even editing for grammar or spelling here.

[ofrhz]

I mean, her stream of consciousness isn’t just defending herself, it’s also accusing ruru of deliberately fabricating things (not saying I agree with this part), which is consistent with her scumreads, so I think she is just frustrated.

Yeah she has a large scumrange but this feels beyond that.

[Oxy]

Actually yeah at one point she self voted out of “frustration” in that game. But this feels... different in a way, like she’s not even editing for grammar or spelling here.

Sajj, I don't mean to offend you here, really

WHEN THE HECK HAS SAJJ EDITED FOR SPELLING OR GRAMMAR????????

[ofrhz]

You gotta admit, her spelling and grammar took a dramatic decline in those last few posts. Like, relatively speaking. (Also no offense intended really)

[ofrhz]

I don’t really want to get into an analysis of language though. It was just to convey a point that she’s really pissed off

[Scioness Sajj]

maybe becuase it two fucking am and I AM SUPER TIRED

LEAVE MY FUCKING GRAMMAR ALONE OKAY

[Scioness Sajj]

it will be better tomorrow

also above is a joke post

no clue why you have mentioned it

[Scioness Sajj]

Scioness is top scumread by PoE. I only have little things that ping to me, but they could also come from town. e.g.
- Scioness said one of ruru's posts pinged her "super hard" as town, but she didn't revise her read on ruru after that.
- Answering my question by asking another question -- I get that I didn't answer her earlier question, but this doesn't preclude her from both answering my question and asking for an answer to hers.
- She said she's scumreading me and then said she has to sort me -- I don't think this was necessarily scummy, but then she wanted to sort me by asking: "ofrhz why do you think you seem different to me d2?" This was just weird questioning, and I don't see town asking questions this way.

Like these things don't build up to a strong case against Scioness imo. I was lowkey waiting for ruru to keep interrogating Scioness until ruru built her case, so I could just sheep that. But I think the last line of interrogation died down when ruru cleared up the ambiguity with Scioness's posts from D1 (so I'm also not sure how confident ruru is on her Scioness read).

I think she's still fairly scummy. TLDR in no particular order of why I think so is like:

1. Her reasons for sussing me are really weird. When people (not just me) point out that her logic is weird, she doesn't really seem to consider much that she could be wrong. Example:

   I feel like you even engaging on my case is proof of you being a scum.

   (Maybe she thought I would be an easy mislynch today due to my playstyle and didn't expect me to go after her? It would make sense in a way.)
   
   No clue how example post has anything to do with her point. The bracket thing well if I thought she was an easy mislynch wouldn't I drop my scumread on her after nobody was interested? (this line of reasoning should also applie to d1 oxy btw)
   
   
2. Often uncooperative when reasonable questions are brought up. Like if you're town and you think someone is sussing you for poor reasons, it doesn't make sense to be uncooperative. It makes sense to 1) give clear explanation so they can move on in case they are town 2) explore their lines of questioning to see if there's scummy logic behind it in case they are scum. Example: 1722
   
   I did that at first, I have tried to explain why I think Oxy has bad arguements, I have explained with to ofrhz I have pointed out when pintu was wrong. About 2). remember when she said she would vote me if I wasn't answering questions and said that me asking qestions before asnwering them is weird/whatever adjective she used? I do.
   
   
3. By the reasoning of her own posts she should be guilty, if it were actually applied to her. Town is certainly capable of hypocrisy too but I think it's more likely to come from scum. Example:

   Also 316 proves that he is able to analyze a game on deeper level. So why his first case on me was so weak? Weak to the point I had to explain to him why most of it is too weak to push a case. He didn't come up with anything stronger, he saw that 'his town reads' weren't buying, he didn't really try to reason with people (I don't remember him trying to convince you or get into a convo why you don't find those things suspicious were he had me as obvscum on me, I don't remember him discussing it with anybody), I think if it was town motivated tunnel he would argue more or actually reconsider if maybe what he thinks is wrong since everybody else disagreed with him.

   Fencing again, but also I don't see how that applies tbh.
   
   About the premise, I strongly believe SS is able to analyze the game on a deeper level than her current play. c.f. first part of 284 695
   
   Are you scumreading me for this or what?
   
   
4. 217 is weird in context. The second part of 284 is actually really weird since I don't think Drixx/pin ever suggested an ofrhz+ruru scumteam. I think she's also confirmed at this point that she did not understand their posts to be suggesting an ofrhz+ruru scumteam.
   
   ealier today after I have explained my post she said that my explanantion makes sense, yet her she is just backtracking
   
   
5. She didn't seriously consider no-lynching instead of hammering Drixx, even though Dino was in the thread at the time, nor did she wait for Drixx to claim
   
   talked about this already
   
   
6. Dino was trying to lead town, had her first in his lynch order, and he got killed (Can be pretty WIFOMy but there is a clear motive. I think all WIFOM considered SS would be having a worse day today if he were here.)
   
   some shading, some reasons for me to nk Dino. you know who also had a reason to kill Dino? literally any scumteam that thought they had a chance at pushing a mislynch on me and didn't like Dino's mechanical game solving.
   
   
7. I just don't like 1220. It's not necessarily that the post is super +EV for scum!SS - it probably isn't. It's also that I think a town player would have it on the front of their mind why they should not make that post. I actually read a game before where scum asked an even more obvious question. Sample size is 1 but it's definitely not too scummy to be scum.
   
   Is she scumreading me for it or not?
   
   
8. She's aligning herself with skitter and skitter makes no sense either regardless of alignment, but somehow skitter makes the most sense to her?

Why is that even an arugment in her case?

I'm not like super sure that she's scum, but I do think she's quite significantly the scummiest player at this point.

Liek the whole case here is a big maybe. She doesn't commit yet demands that I should address it. Come on.

[Scioness Sajj]

Actually yeah at one point she self voted out of “frustration” in that game. But this feels... different in a way, like she’s not even editing for grammar or spelling here.

Sajj, I don't mean to offend you here, really

WHEN THE HECK HAS SAJJ EDITED FOR SPELLING OR GRAMMAR????????

I dare you to quote every posts with mistakes I have made.

it is not so bad

i hope

[Oxy]

@sajj I promise I'll read that post with an open mind at some point tonight, but I can't right this second.

@ofrhz Okay, we can drop the language point, but actually it looks pretty okay to me... She often uses commas, periods, and yeah she misses a few caps at sentence starts, but she both quoted a post and tagged a post number to be a link - both things that sajj often omits. So, no actually, I'm not feeling that case.


okay, no one's getting lynched tonight

This was a great fire drill though

Ofrhz, man, I need you to find a scum read. - we need to lynch soon

Or if you're really hard stuck, maybe it's worth to make a spoiler fighting back against some of that iso at some point, if only to convince me

Because this is a rapidly diminishing PoE pool for me, and you're still swimming.

I've got some work to do, and I need to make time for skitter when she gets here, so I'll be around

[Oxy]

Actually yeah at one point she self voted out of “frustration” in that game. But this feels... different in a way, like she’s not even editing for grammar or spelling here.

Sajj, I don't mean to offend you here, really

WHEN THE HECK HAS SAJJ EDITED FOR SPELLING OR GRAMMAR????????

I dare you to quote every posts with mistakes I have made.

it is not so bad

i hope

RIGHT HERE lolol - no, your english is actually pretty darned good. I think that your points probably come across crystal clear in person. Without in person context clues, your word choice makes things difficult to parse sometimes. Grammar is not the issue, really (but maybe that's because we've all gotten so used to parsing shit without punctuation, lol)

[Scioness Sajj]

yeah, I'm not really pissed just tired. I was not reallly looking at what I was writing or checking for errors

[Scioness Sajj]

excuse you

not using capitals or commas is a stilistic choice of a shitposter

commas all over the place come from me having no clue how punctation works in english and it works somehow differently than in my native

[pinturicchio]

What's your native, Scioness?

[Scioness Sajj]

polish

[Oxy]

Quick thought - those wagons today, they didn't feel like tvt with split scum.
we didn't end up lynching.

[Oxy]

actually I guess that's kind of useless because I already town read ruru LOL

[Oxy]

but ruru+pin and ruru + skitter, yeah those teams are not a thing lololol

[Scioness Sajj]