Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[davesaz]

Nobody plays every game exactly the same way.

[davesaz]

I have never played in a game with ruru.
The MD games that ruru has seen are not the same MD games that I have seen.
The sets are disjoint, there is no comparison between them.
And yes, I would be hugely surprised if MD played every scum game the same way. Multiple metas are a given, else he'd get lynched every time as scum. This is mafia 101...

[Zoronos]

Maybe that's exactly why I'm asking these questions. I don't see it as confrontational though. I don't think I've even been impolite.

I looked at Mathdino in ISO, was surprised by what I saw, and voted there to stir the coals a bit. It's not prompted by the ofhrz vote at all, it's prompted by his overall content. Didn't expect that to evoke a strong reaction from anyone, and instead two 3rd parties decided it was necessary to jump in.

The question to ruru is a very simple one. It was a naked vote, and I'd like to have some explanation. I usually ask for explanations of naked votes. When I ask for explanations and the response is diversionary, it's a huge red flag.

I normally only ask for explanations for votes when something about the player bothers me / seems suspicious.
Of all the people on the ofhrz wagon, you chose to question ruru. And you persisted in questioning ruru. That suggests you don't have an active sort on ruru and are trying to sort her? In a vacuum, fine, no problem. It doesn't agree with my take on the game but w/e I guess you do you. But you've selected two voters on the ofhrz to suspect, and that strikes me as a pattern.

I think I like where you're going on the mathdino read, I'm just not sure I like how you're getting there.

[Zoronos]

I have never played in a game with ruru.
The MD games that ruru has seen are not the same MD games that I have seen.
The sets are disjoint, there is no comparison between them.
And yes, I would be hugely surprised if MD played every scum game the same way. Multiple metas are a given, else he'd get lynched every time as scum. This is mafia 101...

Yes, but your case is contingent on him only having one town meta, and because he's not playing it you're voting him.
Your case contradicts this statement.

I wish people that agreed with me had better cases for doing it it would make me feel much better.
Talk to me about not-meta-case-stuff on MathDino.

[ofrhz]

First order of business:

Blackstar voters, justify yourself.

His classification of things as genuine or not genuine feels arbitrary and made up

finding a reason to scumread me in how I caught up in a large burst of activity but not considering the more likely alternative which is that I had a large chunk of time to sit down and play the game but have been busy otherwise

But probably by far the largest reason is that I have a hard time believing that someone read my scum game in Newbie 1865 like he claimed (my only finished scumgame on-site) and came to the conclusion that I could be scum this game. I kinda think the differences in my gameplay have already been night and day

I'm feeling pretty good about blackstar being town here. <snip>

and, reading the thread myself, i can

see

where his thought is coming from.

Could you explain which of his thoughts make sense to you? I’m guessing you’re not talking about his initial gut read of Zoronos since you had Zoronos as a townlean early

[ofrhz]

It felt like desperation to me. He wanted to act as if the vote didn't bother him and possibly change ruru's mind by acting as if he approved of the logic behind it.

What was desperate about it? Like what part of it seemed like I was acting versus actually not caring about the vote

"Ruru voted for me. She's probably town, guys!"
feels different from
"I can understand why Ruru scumreads me. If I was in their shoes I probably would too. I don't like the vote but I see where they're coming from. I think I town read Ruru."

I feel like a good deal of this is personality

and even if it wasn't, ruru didn't explain why she was scumreading me so I would never say the latter

[davesaz]

I see that them having both been on the ofhrz wagon could be concerning, if that were an actual reason. But in fact I looked at activity to get the Mathdino lead. I get most of my leads on players I know by differences from past games, and then digging into the difference to find out if it's AI or not. If it's someone I don't know, I have to ask questions to determine what they think, and then see if what they say about what they think matches the behavior. This is why my approaches to MD and ruru are different, and previous wagon composition is merely a coincidence.

At least I'm getting a decent handle on you.

Pedit: MD has been controlling in every single town game I've ever seen. He's even tried to control my town game when we were on a team together in Team Mafia. Therefore not controlling is a huge difference and it needs to be investigated.

[ofrhz]

@Other Open 721-ers

Thoughts on ofhrz here as compared to last game? Correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i remember in both of the games i've played with him people just considered him obviously town – obviously town to the point where i don't think i've ever really expended that much effort trying to read him, i just wrote him off as town.

Is the fact that i can't really write him off as town yet meaningful?

Elli-tell still seems valid here as well. He really hasn't been much of a presence so far – i should go back and check open 721 and 1859's early game postcount there to compare. (this is something math might want to do / have done already as well)

I was mislynched D1 in that game

[davesaz]

I think NSG's points on JJH around 192 and 198 are good. (typing post numbers from memory, if these land in the wrong place it will be +/- a few posts)
I'm a little uneasy about her not pursuing that thread, and wonder how it got resolved.

[ofrhz]

ofrhz sure sounds a lot like ofrhz

And

actually not sure why this wagon is happening, can someone give me a hand?

Seems either like a scum with TMI-knowing it's a mislynch, or scum softly trying to steer the wagon.
Scummy posts anyway.

I have no reason to reverse my scumread on the duck.
I'd argue we can see scum!Zoro more easily after duck really flips scum.
Pintu legit feels like town.
One scum in ruru/orcfz is probable.
Blackstra is likely town, and the ones who have poked/voted there so far likely have scum in them, looking for a potential mislynch.

This caught my eye b/c you've locked onto the worst here, and I don't quite follow

Pintu in 386 also said I am playing a similar game to one of my town games, which is kinda similar to tw's 254. Could you explain how pintu has towntold?

HWS recently questioned why I'm being wagoned. What do you think of that?

[davesaz]

Orfcz+duck are scum btw.
More certain of the duck.

VOTE: the worse

When you get back please explain this.

[ofrhz]

Ruru please explain your ofrhz vote.

It's likely on scum

it's not

[ofrhz]

Md is kinda null to me, but lynching him now is super -EV

I actually thought davesaz's vote was kinda town?

like why draw so much attention to yourself by voting mathdino

[ofrhz]

hey pintu, got a tinfoil hat theory for me yet?

[northsidegal]

I’m a little worried that NSG isn’t as rapid about prosecutin her scum case as in 2005 but maybe that’s because she’s setting a clever trap idk she mentioned that the other day, but the raw emotional intensity is missing so I’m concerned. Or maybe she’s just not sure yet but I have concerns.

i made that alt in the first place to play differently. you probably shouldn't be expecting similar play.

[northsidegal]

{nsg}
{BlackStar, ruru}
{davesaz, Zoronos}
{HeWhoSwims, pinturicchio}
{Mathdino, the worst, HitAlt}
{ofrhz, jjh927, Something_Smart}

strangely enough, despite the positioning i feel like if i'm wrong on any one of these it'd be within the {davesaz, zoronos} group.

[northsidegal]

if i'm wrong a townread, that is.

[HitAlt]

I have no reason to reverse my scumread on the duck.

Talk to me about why you scum read the duck.
Based on what you wrote prior, 344, you think he's TMI on the ofrhz (or defending a partner). Since then he seems to be claiming a town read on ofrhz .
You had an early town read on the the_worst 129 so there's clearly been some trajectory change in this read. You moved from 'duck is towny' to 'duck is scummy + [not sure on ofrhz ]' -> 'both ofrhz and duck are scummy'.

You missed my very next post after 129:

They can def. be chill as scum too, but I have a strong vibe.

I had a strong vibe

because they felt relaxed and "themselves" at that point.

That sensation wore off, and I think them not finding a good wagon yet is one implication of scum!worst.
Then their posts towards the one notable wagon today raised some real red flags, so now they are actually a scumread.

What have you thought about the duck's posting in the time since you initially pronounced that read?

He's certainly increased a lot in volume

, at least to my estimation.

..which is why I I put my words as in "I have no reason to reverse my read".
Volume is NAI on their part.

[davesaz]

@NSG can you explain how you townread ruru?

[Zoronos]

I have no reason to reverse my scumread on the duck.

Talk to me about why you scum read the duck.
Based on what you wrote prior, 344, you think he's TMI on the ofrhz (or defending a partner). Since then he seems to be claiming a town read on ofrhz .
You had an early town read on the the_worst 129 so there's clearly been some trajectory change in this read. You moved from 'duck is towny' to 'duck is scummy + [not sure on ofrhz ]' -> 'both ofrhz and duck are scummy'.

You missed my very next post after 129:

They can def. be chill as scum too, but I have a strong vibe.

I had a strong vibe

because they felt relaxed and "themselves" at that point.

That sensation wore off, and I think them not finding a good wagon yet is one implication of scum!worst.
Then their posts towards the one notable wagon today raised some real red flags, so now they are actually a scumread.

What have you thought about the duck's posting in the time since you initially pronounced that read?

He's certainly increased a lot in volume

, at least to my estimation.

..which is why I I put my words as in "I have no reason to reverse my read".
Volume is NAI on their part.

That's why you were town reading the_worst? Huh, I guess I didn't really understand that.

Tell me more about these red flags.
I mean, yeah, he's increased in volume, I was hoping you'd have some thoughts about what was in those posts. Like, anything in them increase your certainty here?
Help me understand your read. Sell me.

[HitAlt]

I'll probably try that either later today, or tomorrow.
Don't feel like writing walls right now.
And if anyone calls this stalling, I'll call them scum.

[the worst]

them not finding a good wagon yet is one implication of scum!worst

scuse fucking you?

the fuck are you basing this on? I'm suddenly thinking you have no idea what I'm like as a player, and your BoP bullshit is raising more red flags than anything.

Who cares if anyone refers to it as stalling? We are not even close to deadline. Seriously question.

[BlackStar]

First order of business:

Blackstar voters, justify yourself.

His classification of things as genuine or not genuine feels arbitrary and made up

finding a reason to scumread me in how I caught up in a large burst of activity but not considering the more likely alternative which is that I had a large chunk of time to sit down and play the game but have been busy otherwise

But probably by far the largest reason is that I have a hard time believing that someone read my scum game in Newbie 1865 like he claimed (my only finished scumgame on-site) and came to the conclusion that I could be scum this game. I kinda think the differences in my gameplay have already been night and day

I'm feeling pretty good about blackstar being town here. <snip>

and, reading the thread myself, i can

see

where his thought is coming from.

Could you explain which of his thoughts make sense to you? I’m guessing you’re not talking about his initial gut read of Zoronos since you had Zoronos as a townlean early

You're changing my words. I didn't say that I read that game and decided you were scum here. I said that I read your game and decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. But I still wasn't 100% convinced you were town and eventually I couldn't ignore that feeling

[Mathdino]

You guys are doing a bang-up job of talking mafia theory
Is ruru still town? Chainsaw defence of me feels weird

Davesaz is more than likely town for this

[Mathdino]

Wait yeah ruru would always do that as both alignments, she sees mafia theory similarly to me

Your investigation should probably lead you to realise that I'm just low on mafia inspiration in general this week, dave
You're not allowed to discuss ongoings but you're still allowed to privately check them

If you guys start wagoning obvtown I might get upset but as it is most of the most active players are town
And this bores me