Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[The Dream Weaver]

Siren's Call

now has a new description.

Siren's Call:

Target another player. That player's action(s) will be redirected to target you instead of their original target(s) until the next Night Phase.

[Sakura Hana]

oh I interpreted Muffin's comment as brutal sarcasm
in which case I agree

if it was literal it was stupid

Nah it was obvious sarcasm

[Sando]

Sando thank you so much for rolling town with me

You're welcome.

FA can also potentially pick Impenetrable skin, assuming scum only have the one NK for now, should get her through N2 and allow us to hold off claiming powers an extra day.

Just a follow up on this one, don't commit to this today, wait for tomorrow to say whether you've done this or not to see how many kills come out. Worst case scum fake you out by not using their 2nd (3rd, 4th, shit they might all have one!!!!) kills to kill you N2 through your BP, which is still a town-win.

[Cerberus v666]

I will renominate kokichi for leader tomorrow.

I want Cerb! *arm wrestles hebi*

Naw, I shouldn't be leader. I won't be lynched, and I don't expect to be shot at, especially considering there's basically no chance I won't end up on the team tonight, at which point I'll almost certainly choose to be impenetrable from now till forever...so naw, no need for me to be the leader.

I do appreciate the vote of confidence though! <3

[hebichan]

ok 3 people claimed they voted me That is way under than what I thought I had

either scum really didn't have a pregame chat - they decided to split vote and allow town to choose people - or they voted me cause they think they can control me

FA assuming you're town, do you think scum would have seen you as a big enough threat as leader to try and get someone else leader, town or scum? Do you think there's anyone in the player pool that scum might have wanted to NOT be leader?

Regarding the picks, you can semi-hide and still force them if we want. FA can pick 5 people, so they can outline 5 groups of ~4 (I think there's 22 not including FA) and say they'll pick one person in each group, and they can even define the power they should pick.

FA can also potentially pick Impenetrable skin, assuming scum only have the one NK for now, should get her through N2 and allow us to hold off claiming powers an extra day.

this is also a good point. Though, it means they probably shoot someone else... which is fine either way.

[Sando]

this is also a good point. Though, it means they probably shoot someone else... which is fine either way.

Oh yeah, I'm assuming scum want FA dead N2 if she's still around (ie we haven't decided to lynch her) since she has ALL THE KNOWLEDGE. Not outing our PRs is great for town, but only until FA is dead...getting her through to D3 would be a nice compromise at least. I assume this structure will continue through the game, where scum want the leaders dead asap to mess with the PR knowledge for town.

@Mod

- do any of the superpowers interact with the leaders choice of superhero team? For example, if you targeted the leader with Sirens Call would that move their superhero team choice onto you instead?

[The Dream Weaver]

@Mod - do any of the superpowers interact with the leaders choice of superhero team?

No.

[hebichan]

I still think its protown to out some of the powers that can warp the game, especially since powers don't flip with role.

BUT but but but but. We don't have to and shouldn't out them today if FA takes the nightkill stopping power.

I'm just imagining a world where we have people redirecting powers and stealing those redirecting powers and we have no clue why people are flipping.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh man, and just when i was thinking of switching my vote, Cerb goes ahead and posts #353

[Cerberus v666]

Oh man, and just when i was thinking of switching my vote, Cerb goes ahead and posts #353

Cool, whatever day you decide you want to start playing on, please elaborate on your objections to that post. ^^

[Sando]

BUT but but but but. We don't have to and shouldn't out them today if FA takes the nightkill stopping power.

FA has complete immunity tonight afaik, bulletproof is to protect N2 onwards.

We also should consider setting up a townie huddle of protection/investigation. We don't have docs or investigative yet, but we could tell everyone to take BP (it's not very useful on scum anyway I don't think) and start building a defensive cadre. Use future day powers to hopefully investigate into the cadre and then start piling powers onto the cleared people and protect them with docs etc.

Either that or we decide that spread out is best and we get try to stay ahead of scum NKs by spreading powers far and wide and rely on overwhelming them with uncounterable powers.

[Sakura Hana]

but we could tell everyone to take BP (it's not very useful on scum anyway I don't think)

Not thinking hard enough, I guess.
But scum could lie about what power they got saying they got BP when they got something else, just to explain why they dont die at night. Furthermore one of the abilities can redirect the scum kill back at them?

[Cerberus v666]

@Sando: universal BP is probably safest, but the fact that it exists does imply some degree of ease at bypassing it. The redirection is better as universal protection(or whatever you call it when you make actions that target you go elsewhere), but ONLY if the people using it only target consensus scum and/or lynchbait lurker types+we don't grab investigatives going forward. Sakura is correct that we have no way to test for someone taking BP, so any sort of plan we'd make with powers would have to assume that scum will not be following orders.

If we wanted to make this START as a functionally vanilla game, if we lynch town today everyone could pick the medium power, use that on the lynchee, and that would create a network of pts with a town center that would confirm everyone picked and used that power. That play sets up for some potentially very strong plays in the future, with repeated hero teams able to use that pt network to privately coordinate power selection, but it's dependent on the trust the dead slot has for the people it's communicating with, as well as the leaders ability to select a town group. There's also vulnerability to scum roleblocking used as a framing tool, but that would largely be a crapshoot.

I think the medium line has the greatest potential upside if executed perfectly, but is probably impractical.

[Cerberus v666]

@mod: are all of today's powers stopped by a theoretical roleblocker, even the BP?

If multiple people target the same individual with spirit medium, what happens?

If someone using the medium power is redirected to a living slot, what happens?

[Toranaga]

this is also a good point. Though, it means they probably shoot someone else... which is fine either way.

Oh yeah, I'm assuming scum want FA dead N2 if she's still around (ie we haven't decided to lynch her) since she has ALL THE KNOWLEDGE. Not outing our PRs is great for town, but only until FA is dead...getting her through to D3 would be a nice compromise at least. I assume this structure will continue through the game, where scum want the leaders dead asap to mess with the PR knowledge for town.

@Mod

- do any of the superpowers interact with the leaders choice of superhero team? For example, if you targeted the leader with Sirens Call would that move their superhero team choice onto you instead?

this works perfectly. FA should not claim who she turned PR until d3 at the very least. presumably, the wolves are targeting her n2. if she is still alive by d3, suspicion on her grows so claiming her targets work well.

[Toranaga]

BUT but but but but. We don't have to and shouldn't out them today if FA takes the nightkill stopping power.

FA has complete immunity tonight afaik, bulletproof is to protect N2 onwards.

We also should consider setting up a townie huddle of protection/investigation. We don't have docs or investigative yet, but we could tell everyone to take BP (it's not very useful on scum anyway I don't think) and start building a defensive cadre. Use future day powers to hopefully investigate into the cadre and then start piling powers onto the cleared people and protect them with docs etc.

Either that or we decide that spread out is best and we get try to stay ahead of scum NKs by spreading powers far and wide and rely on overwhelming them with uncounterable powers.

also a plan I agree with.

[the worst]

btw not really fully here til marathon weekend is over but if anyone wants to hang out later this phase hmu :>

[123456789]

so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.

or that they didn't want to do it

Yeah not much to do on that. There's two optimal approaches in my mind

1) Random but secret the PRs or 2) Announce them.

Random neutralizes the threat to PRs and reduces buddying for power but makes blocking harder.

Announcing means buddying up the yin yang and harder to mske reads but easier to block with.

I don't understand this post. are you suggesting FA randomizes who's gonna get a PR and not announce it? how can we trust the PRs will be randomized? and if we trust FA enough to trust she'll actually randomize the PRs, why can't we just trust FA to pick whoever she wants without outing next day? I don't understand your logic here nor do I like any of your posting so far.

Like the rest of you, I really don't get what Titus is stating here...

[123456789]

Are you trying to say that giving random people abilities is more optimal than giving one to my town reads?

That's what it sounds like. I don't agree with it, but whatever....

[123456789]

so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.

or that they didn't want to do it

Yeah not much to do on that. There's two optimal approaches in my mind

1) Random but secret the PRs or 2) Announce them.

Random neutralizes the threat to PRs and reduces buddying for power but makes blocking harder.

Announcing means buddying up the yin yang and harder to mske reads but easier to block with.

what do you mean secret the prs? you mean my team? I'm not gonna announce who I'm gonna choose today. tomorrow I will out all players though

I don't get the last sentence and how is this related to my post though

Well if you pick and keep secret, the odds of picking one scum by chance are pretty high. If you're town, you could get blamed for it given scum think you are buddiable. If you're scum secret plus pick allows you to place buddies as PRs.

If we do secret, it should be random to completely reduce the value of scum buddying you for power.

why are you posting under the assumption FA is town? you are giving her the chance to, if scum, give her scum team mates power without committing to it the next day, because you fear she might give scum power by being buddied. this makes no sense to me, titus.

(Why should we assume otherwise? I get a town!vibe from Frozen's posts so far.)

[123456789]

so it's about if scum thinks I'm stupid, frameable or they just couldn't coordinate this.

or that they didn't want to do it

Yeah not much to do on that. There's two optimal approaches in my mind

1) Random but secret the PRs or 2) Announce them.

Random neutralizes the threat to PRs and reduces buddying for power but makes blocking harder.

Announcing means buddying up the yin yang and harder to mske reads but easier to block with.

what do you mean secret the prs? you mean my team? I'm not gonna announce who I'm gonna choose today. tomorrow I will out all players though

I don't get the last sentence and how is this related to my post though

Well if you pick and keep secret, the odds of picking one scum by chance are pretty high. If you're town, you could get blamed for it given scum think you are buddiable. If you're scum secret plus pick allows you to place buddies as PRs.

If we do secret, it should be random to completely reduce the value of scum buddying you for power.

Hmmmm . . . I hadn’t thought of that. I could definitely see how scum could WIFOM on that. Perhaps an optimal solution is a combo of pick and random, secret and open?

I can see how scum could use that to their advantage.

This is even worse than Titus's suggestion.

[123456789]

Anyone knows why mod keep saying "LEAGUE OF ALISAE" when announcing hero powers under his vcs?

I think Alisae invents two of the powers while the mod had the rest pre-planned.

[123456789]

Even with a smaller number a biased opinion is nearly always equal or better to a random pick.

Are we sure about that? What is town's winrate here on Mafiascum (for normals)? I'm pretty sure it is fair bit under EV.

[123456789]

Even with a smaller number a biased opinion is nearly always equal or better to a random pick.

This is true only if information present. D1 has no valid info. Only egos. D1 selections are nothing more than who is effective at buddying.

I disagree with this, but agree with the sentiment.

[123456789]

I play more relaxed as town than scum, so why wouldn't others?

But, if you guys disagree I can't say that I think it's my best reasoning ever for a read. It's a tone read, and no one follows me on those anyway.

And the Great Gatsby is boring, unlike Watership Down, the best book ever.

Great Gatsby is a meh book but pretty fun to analyze

Great Gatsby is a meh book and a pain to analyze.