Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Keyser Söze]

Ended D1 with a bottom three of Bernie Sanders-Momrangal-skitter30...

Now more paranoid over Bernie Sanders-the worst-Nauci...


THIS GAME

[Keyser Söze]

Votecount 2.3

the worst(3)

~ Nauci, Errantparabola, skitter30

momrangal (1)

~ Bernie Sanders

Shoshin (1)

~ Gustavo

Not_Mafia(1)

~ Irrelephant11

skitter30 (1)

~ shoshin

Nauci (1)

~ the worst

Not Voting (3): BlackVoid, Momrangal, Not_Mafia

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-15 20:30:00)

I should be in the

Not Voting

@brassherald.



Really I need more from Momrangal D2 now.

[the worst]

I will if it wagons up. If I'm gonna throw down a vanity vote it's gonna be on my strongest scumread.

[Nauci]

@errant How is it inconsistent?

@blackvoid all questions you directed to me have been answered. :thumbs up:

@nauci while it’s tempting to go re-read the first letter of all your posts... You’re certainly working hard, but I know from experience that you put in hard work as both alignments. You only got replaced that game because you spent too long writing too many words (as scum)! Off the top of my head though I can’t think of anything that comes from town-you more likely than it comes from scum-you. Sorry if that’s insulting, but it’s certainly notable that two other people said they felt the same way unprompted. I’ll have more to say about your alignment when I ISO you later

@Not_Mafia any chance you wanna vote someone?

2 people? TW and who? One is on my shit list this game

There's not enough data to really back it up but I gave up in my 2 early scum games and procrastinated hard in ours ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But you're supposed to be reading my effort posts for perspective and motivations and if you find anything remotely pro scum or even anti town, post it and we'll talk

But this "feels off" shit is annoying af

However I will take the compliment that I would be clever enough and care enough to have an excellent scum game if I were scum, because I'd like that to be true someday. I think I have way more fun as VT than anything else though

I'm in the middle of a dozen hours of homework and figuring out how to see a doctor with no health insurance so I'm putting this off for a while longer

Might as well wait for NewMath and momrangal posts

[the worst]

Ironically I feel like my reads are being brushed off unfairly. If you're town having a hissy fit and saying I'm in your shit list really doesn't help me correct them dude.

[the worst]

like if you just think I'm a garbo player perhaps you're subtly asking me to rep out? or do you think you have spewed your alignment here? I don't see where you actually think my stance is unjust?

[Keyser Söze]

Mom is town tho

Do you think Mom is scum now who pocketed you?

[Nauci]

Ironically I feel like my reads are being brushed off unfairly. If you're town having a hissy fit and saying I'm in your shit list really doesn't help me correct them dude.

I'm brushing off the "feels" posts without specifics. I've been scumreading you for most of the game so what do you expect me to do with these empty reads?

Like if you want to contribute a case to solve the game, *case me,* but someone scum read by the game throwing out a "doesn't feel town" isn't earning credibility or contribute useful data points. The one point someone made about me that was a useful one was Skitter noting me notice the shitty gamma wagon just after she did, which showed town POV from her IMO. Do *that* instead.

I've literally spent the entire game criticizing "feels wrong" without reasoning posts and explaining why they are bad; do you need me to go quite the dozen places in my ISO where that happens to explain why I don't give your read any credence as it stands?

I don't know where you're getting these replace out or alignment spewing or whatever ideas and I'm not totally sure what they mean.

[Shoshin]

I'm probably gonna sheep BV on Skitter.

[Shoshin]

I'm second-guessing my read there too much.

[Errantparabola]

@errant How is it inconsistent?

i'm just really surprised that you would write off all of nauci's thought processes with a blanket statement of "nothing town to see here"
you didn't seem like the type of town player to do that
it wasnt really enough for me to rethink my read, but ... eh.

Bernie hammers Gamma. There was a lot of flip-flopping on the Gamma lynch by BS, I honestly don't know what to make of that. Would scum-Bernie not want to make such a dramatic scene at EoD over Gamma to ensure the misslynch? I need help here. Is it alignment indicative for BS?

1) I think your efforts would be better served with us on Day 2 (i mean, this isn't hurting anyone so i guess i'm glad you did it)
2) I would say that on-balance it's probably a little townier but i think that stuff that falls under the category of "suspicious looking hammers" is generally only alignment indicative in certain specific cases.

VOTE: The worst
I think mom-TW then probably N_M, if not then BV/math slot. Mom tw have to die though.
I was going to hard insist mom today actually but 1746 is legitimately scummy from duck here.
FTR vla should only stop a wagon d1 because it's about content/pressure then. I kind of just want flip now.

weirdly, i thought 1746 was the only explicitly towny post that the worst has made today

Ironically I feel like my reads are being brushed off unfairly. If you're town having a hissy fit and saying I'm in your shit list really doesn't help me correct them dude.

I think this is a
towny post,
a little bit

Shoshin, do you think that Gustavo accusing you of misrepping the whole TvS thing is a discussion worth having? i'm guessing by the fact that you're not responding to it means that you think it isn't. but I'd like to know that you at least have a valid response without having to go and fact check myself

(I mean, if you dont, i guess that's fine too honestly, it wasnt a particularly salient point that i had intention of pushing any further. I just threw it out there because i was reading that post and that was my first thought about the post. once again, I skate by with my abject laziness. seems like no one is explicitly mad at me for it. So we're in the clear for now. I will continue to approach maximum energy expenditure efficiency and only feel a little bad about myself for playing in the same game as people like Nauci, who spend hours on this game alone)

[Errantparabola]

anyway this has been errantparabola's take on The News
thanks for stopping by, oh hey, i'm ~still a piece of garbage~

[Shoshin]

Shoshin, do you think that Gustavo accusing you of misrepping the whole TvS thing is a discussion worth having?

Do you?

[Errantparabola]

You may deduce from my post that yes, I do, enough that id post about it, but no, i do not enough so that id get worked up over it

[skitter30]

VOTE: The worst
I think mom-TW then probably N_M, if not then BV/math slot. Mom tw have to die though.
I was going to hard insist mom today actually but 1746 is legitimately scummy from duck here.
FTR vla should only stop a wagon d1 because it's about content/pressure then. I kind of just want flip now.

i don't want the day to end before bv catches up btw

i don't think that 1746 is that scummy tbh

--

ftr, this is a bad sign because we tend to mindmeld as tvt and he knows that i have a *very* good sense of this sort of thing

this is a bad sign because I have a feeling you can immitate this kind of thing as scum,

and I had literally no success in working out where you were coming from on this angle.. :/

i have no idea if faking this sort of thing is in my scumrange or not tbh

the following is what was bothering me with the wagon. i'm not entirely sure what else you're trying to say by the bolded.

Spoiler:

it feels very ... complacent to me, i geuss is a good word? math's been on there for like a week, i only townread two people on it (shoshin + bernie, i guess provisionally gustavo too), it feels like it's inevitable almost? there's like nobody complaining about it except me and it just ... doesn't feel right to me.

like basically all the active people support it and half the wagon is comprised of inactive people (bernie, nm) and/or people who don't really understand the current gamestate (math, nm), and one person on it is pushing it despite the fact that his biggest scumread is on it (gustavo) and i've asked him to talk more about it like twice now and he hasn't responded to that, which makes me doubt his ability to understand wagonomics.

like it just doesn't feel like a good wagon to me. like the only vote that i don't particularly have a problem with is shoshin's.

like it just feels like a compromise by people who i don't think have the knowledge required to make that decision, if that makes sense.

--

Ironically I feel like my reads are being brushed off unfairly. If you're town having a hissy fit and saying I'm in your shit list really doesn't help me correct them dude.

like if you just think I'm a garbo player perhaps you're subtly asking me to rep out? or do you think you have spewed your alignment here? I don't see where you actually think my stance is unjust?

i'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say with these posts tbh. or who you're talking to? are you talking to me?

--

I'm probably gonna sheep BV on Skitter.

math's probably better, but bv has a pretty strong track record too i think in recent months

[BlackVoid]

i think i'm going to try to read you by seeing how much we mindmeld

posts from after you catchup will count more than posts made during your catchup because i'm incredibly paranoid and i don't know how much of my posting you read before replacing in and we talked about how you'd play scum in that hydra game

That's fair. I skimmed enough to know that you being this involved in the game means you are very likely town. I'm going to catch up quickly so we can get to the good stuff (discussing reads) soon.

[BlackVoid]

From page 8, I like Stungun's 183 and thought process on Gemini.

@stungun I like Shoshin, you, Bernie, Mom, and Mathdino for town so far, in that order. None of them are particularly strong because few players have said a ton. I was voting you for pressure because it seemed to rattle you, but the rattling had a towniness as it went on.

What do you mean by "rattling?" Bernie actually said the same thing earlier. I don't see stungun getting rattled in a towny or scummy way.

I agree with your Shoshin and Stungun reads. But why Momrangel as town?

I feel like conventional wisdom says Keyser is playing in a towny way, but none of the things he’s saying actually feel genuine? To put it another way, his play fits in a town box, but almost seems too perfectly shaped for it. I’m not saying he’s scummy yet, just that I haven’t seen enough to sort.

This is a bit too vague for me to understand. What are you referring to when you say that his play fits a town box but is too perfectly shaped for it? What is this "conventional wisdom" that says he is playing in a towny way?

Irrelephant's probably town.

He's one of the active players I don't have a townread on based on their early posting. Can you elaborate what you were thinking here?

Even if you don't like the way Invis posts, 158, 168, and 169 should clear him. I highly doubt he'd make either of these as scum.

This is a good point, agree that all those posts were townie. I was actually even getting townvibes out of stuff like "I'm too tired to think" even though it's a bad reason to townread someone.

Oh good we’re doin this now VOTE: Skitter

I don't think you elaborated on your skitter read at any point so far. I'll see if you did later but if not, I'd like to hear it.

I was reading the game

because the rapping is

and soft mind melded with Gemini a couple of times so the slot was too good to pass up

This implies that you wanted the slot because you thought it was town. Do you have a preference for playing town?

I think I might(?) have had an ancient keysor tell/spec written down I might look into later

I think this is unlikely to come from scum. I've liked Bernie's more recent posts in general as well but not confident there. I'm reading through the lens of this being Raskolnikov and I have a few ideas on what he might play like as both alignments. Making a note to come back to this.

I'm only saying this because it reminds me of when I townread lovebird one time for somewhat comparable townread/paranoia/elsewhere progression (except it was harder; my thought was why bother faking that strange progression?)

I think Lovebird is just more competent at mafia than Invisibility. I've spectated a game where Invisibility was playing and while he was town there, his posting was somewhat VI'ish so I think it would be beyond him to fake genuine thought processes.

Shoshin is pretty town too overall. I didn't mention every post that gave me a townvibe but there were a lot of them. 273 sealed in my read though. Blocking out lynches on mislynch-bait hurts scum wincon considerably. It's a good move as town but not as scum.

zzzzzzz
unfortunately research shows invis is kinda mad lynchbait, though I think he might still end up being scum regardless (and it is the case that I've a few times psyched myself to be overly wary of scum on such concerns)

If you still share this view of Invisibility/Not_Mafia, can you elaborate? Are you saying he's actively scummy or you just have paranoia that the things he's being townread for may be null?

[BlackVoid]

That's until the end of page 14. Going to bed. I'll try to finish this tomorrow since I have the whole day to it.

[Keyser Söze]

I am enjoying the thought processes here from BlackVoid - solid, safe pace.

[the worst]

i'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say with these posts tbh. or who you're talking to? are you talking to me?

definitely not--you're at least making the effort to fabricate a case against me.
I'm talking to Nauci.

[brassherald]

Jimmy Carter once went to Japan and thought he made a hilarious joke when everyone laughed, but it turned out the translator just told everyone to laugh.

Votecount 2.4

the worst(4)

~ Nauci, Errantparabola, skitter30,Bernie Sanders

Shoshin (1)

~ Gustavo

Not_Mafia(1)

~ Irrelephant11

skitter30 (1)

~ shoshin

Nauci (1)

~ the worst

Not Voting (4): BlackVoid, Momrangal, Not_Mafia,Keyser Soze

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-15 20:30:00)

Mod Notes

Gustavo is VLA

[Keyser Söze]

@the worst - do you mind updating me on your Momrangel read, thanks.

[Nauci]

5 min break from homework yay

UNOFFICIAL Votecount Record Day 2

GeminiTwin12/the worst (4) -

skitter30 #1627

,

Nauci

#1768[/size],

northsidegal/Errantparabola

#1770[/size],

skitter30

#1776[/size],

Bernie Sanders

#1839[/size]

Invisibility/Not_Mafia (1) -

Irrelephant11

#1692[/size]

Nauci (1) -

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#1826[/size]

skitter30 (1) -

Shoshin

#1784[/size]

Shoshin (1) -

stungun0404/Gustavo #1695

,

stungun0404/Gustavo

#1783[/size]

Momrangal -

Bernie Sanders #1660

,

Irrelephant11 #1662

,

skitter30 #1663

Bernie Sanders (0) -

None

Keyser Soze -

Shoshin #1629

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #1674

northsidegal/Errantparabola -

None

stungun0404/Gustavo -

None

Mathdino/BlackVoid -

Nauci #1638

Irrelephant11 -

None

UNVOTE/Not Voting -

None

Vote Record By Player Day 2

Spoiler: Click Here

GeminiTwin12/the worst

-

Nauci

#1826

Invisibility/Not_Mafia

- None

Nauci

-

Mathdino/BlackVoid #1638

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#1768

skitter30

-

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1627

,

Momrangal #1663

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#1776

Shoshin

-

Keyser Soze #1629

,

skitter30

#1784

Momrangal

- None

Bernie Sanders

-

Momrangal #1660

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#1839

Keyser Soze

- None

northsidegal/Errantparabola

-

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#1770

stungun0404/Gustavo

-

Keyser Soze #1674

,

Shoshin #1695

,

Shoshin

#1783

Mathdino/BlackVoid

- None

Irrelephant11

-

Momrangal #1662

,

Invisibility/Not_Mafia

#1692

I'll probably uncontrollably slack off during lectures tomorrow to angrypost if I'm not tired from working all night? Idk I really don't want to evaluate the game state when mom/nm are silent and BV hasn't finished catch up. Feels like a waste of compulsive 1600 word posts.

It's totally bullshit for anyone to hand wave my literally thousands of words worth of analysis and postings and in depth thoughts as a bunch of meh NAI effort, then dare to accuse me of not presenting a proper case for my reads. Like it takes self control to not just passive aggressively quote my own posts about you back at you.

[the worst]

Mom is town tho

Do you think Mom is scum now who pocketed you?

annoyingly i think so.

[Nauci]

Mom is town tho

Do you think Mom is scum now who pocketed you?

IMO it would be more useful to ask questions w/o feeding potential answers in the same stroke, just a side note.