Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[Micc]

Votecount 1.10

Formerfish (3) -

TrinityNZ, Quick, nancy

OkaPoka (2) -

Flicker, Formerfish

Quick (1) -

IcemanCh

Flicker (1) -

Stan1ey

TrinityNZ (1) -

OkaPoka

Not Voting (1) -

Eragon

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2018-07-23 11:49:57).

stan1ey has requested replacement.

[IcemanCh]

@Nancy thanks for the info about meta. I'll try to back out of my meta reads and use more information from just this game.

My read on FF so far is probably tainted TBH because I've played the last two games with him. The first one he came in as SUPER aggressive but, he came in when there was a ton of toxic play and pretty much when in throwing swings at who he thought was scum. He ended up as town but, I had a scum read on him. The second game I played with him was much more like this game.

Anyways, I'll try to reform my thoughts around FF and come up with a new read in isolation to this game.

Hey it's super cool that you're so receptive, and I'm really glad you read the whole thing. I kinda feel like it was a bit much to read and I probably should have just posted the four dot points and left the examples out.

Anyway it's great that you're trying to be aware of his playstyle, I think this fits pretty neatly under what I mentioned as a good way to use meta. Like, you have an understanding of how he /can/ play as town, in a way that you found scummy, so now you know that that specific behavior from him isn't necessarily scummy. Doesn't mean that he's mafia for not playing that way or that he's town if he plays in the same way, just means you have a better feel for what level to read him on.

What was his alignment in the second game?

He's been town in all the games I've played. So I guess I'm missing what his scum play looks like.

[nancy]

If you don't have a list of likely scum/town behaviors then how else do you scum hunt?

Oh boy. Alright, am going to try to keep this one short.

I think the most basic and reliable way that I've learned to read into alignment is to put myself in another player's situation and see if what they're doing makes sense if they're town. When I try to figure out whether someone is town or mafia, I look at their posts and think about everything that they should know as town, I think about what I know of their game philosophy and their playstyle, basically everything I know about them, and ask myself whether or not I would do the things that they're doing as town and as mafia.

Like, look at the paranoia part of my read on you this game. There's no "set of behaviors" that says that having paranoia on someone is towny. That's silly. I got a townread on you by putting myself in your shoes, thinking about how you would probably treat me as mafia, comparing how I thought that would look to the way your read on me evolved, and just not really being able to reconcile the two.

It's like, both very simple and very complex, and it's hugely dependent on your ability to understand how other people think and feel about things.

[nancy]

He's been town in all the games I've played. So I guess I'm missing what his scum play looks like.

Probably pretty similar to his town game.

[nancy]

Okay jesus I really need to stop posting lmao.

Bye!

[Flicker]

Okay, I'm caught up on the thread, and I'm drafting a big post/multiple posts that will hopefully answer everyone's questions for me plus address some other stuff. I'm not sure I can get it up before I would have been prodded, though, hence this sorta-prodge post.

In the meantime, since this thread goes so fast while I'm asleep, I'm just gonna say that I feel like Oka has done some towny things that have reduced/possibly eliminated my scum read on him, so on the off chance there might be a flashwagon tonight or something...

UNVOTE: OkaPoka

Also,

@Formerfish

re: 412, no worries, we're good. Still gonna save everything else I have to say about that for post-game, if you don't mind.

[Micc]

WhyMafia replaces stan1ey.

[WhyMafia]

Haven't played mafia in a while, hope to do well! Catching up rn and will hopefully put my thoughts out in a bit

[WhyMafia]

It's scummy because they are making it seem like they don't want to vote because we may be out of rvs already, not very likely when we are barely on page 2. They answer their own question by mentioning that nothing scummy has really come up, which would mean that most likely we are still in rvs.

So if they were concerned about being out of rvs as a reason to have not voted, their own reasoning is negated by their own observation of the game, and should have felt comfortable voting freely.

For some reason they didn't.

*She/her, thanks.

It's possible to be out of RVS on page 2, just as it's possible for scummy things to happen during RVS, so I think your logic here is wrong. From my perspective, it seemed like there might be enough substantive talk, especially based on/around nancy's questions, that we might be out of RVS, but I wasn't positive because I'm still pretty new and I'm not 100% sure when RVS ends (other than everybody agreeing that it's over). So, I could either risk making a random vote and getting scrutinized for that, or I could be wrong about the RVS status and risk being scrutinized for not voting at all. I went with "don't vote, explain why, and assume people will understand," but that failed, and here we are.

Speaking of vote scrutiny...

UNVOTE: maggie

VOTE: FormerFish

Not a fan of drug references

My understanding of RVS is that it only involves one random vote, and then the next vote should be serious. So, why this second non-serious vote?

This whole interaction with FormerFish I liked
- I liked how he was willing to engage with her and felt her response was genuine. I'm confused about this post

Mostly because they are newer and have 1 post in so far. I don't like the post and it's something I would like to engage her on, but until she gets back in here and posts more I can't do that.

1 post that's not quite good does not a scumbag make.

I don't see why a vote on her would've been bad at this point of time. So what if she's new and at that point of the game, she was his best lead? It seems like he was willing to confront her, but didn't want to risk antagonizing her or voting her? Idk, something seems off about him saying that. So slight town lean on Flicker, and slight scum lean on FormerFish as of these posts.

[WhyMafia]

As of page 5 I'm really liking nancy. I'm confusing myself on how I feel about Flicker. It's a slot I'm puzzled about - I'll need to look into the slot more as the game goes on. I agree with the scum reads on Oka at this point.

[WhyMafia]

As of page 6 - There's nothing glaringly wrong with Eregon. My read on him isn't based on logic, but a combination of tone/superficialness is making me want to scum read him.
My scum read on Oka is stronger with this page. I don't like anything he posted on this page. I don't like how he's trying to "bait" Trinity, bc it seems like he's trying to force something out, when he knows she's a newbie and may say some somewhat questionable things like the RVS vote being limited to 1. I also don't like his read on Trinity and subsequently his scum reads on the two inactive newbies. It seems incredibly fake because she hadn't even interacted that much ??? And even then, he's experienced enough to know that talking doesn't really make someone town? Overall, Oka seems lazy and trying to coast.

[WhyMafia]

Like Eragon has good points but it seems like he's stating good points that aren't putting himself out there. There's nothing controversial, no pushing happening. He's asking questions, but not really following up on them. He gives town reads, but just has a mehh overall attitude. Stuff like

im not saying its super wolfy, im just saying it seems opportunistic and we should keep an eye out.


im not saying its super wolfy, im just saying it seems opportunistic and we should keep an eye out.

Or

not the fact that its 2 random people, the fact that its 2 people with zero thread presence and that are noobs(if im not mistaken)

if thats not hella opportunistic idk what is

I guess, but like, he has some shape of a townread on everyone else, no?

so its just PoE then...

PoE D1???

adding onto this,

If it truly is PoE, im truly amazed that ANYONE can have 7 solid enough townreads that they think that the 2 scum are the only people they dont townred

Like he consistently says he scum reads Oka, but I'm yet to see him actually try to engage with him, and fully push him as scum. Most of his posts seem to be questions with little follow up, and just following the general consensus. Bahhhh, I'm not sure if I'm phrasing this well, so ask questions if you need to

I know its weak but I like the fact that he is putting his opinion out there on someone(flicker) who seems like mis-lynch bait and/or noob town(sorry flicker) without trying to strong-arm the Lynch.
If I were scum id likely be trying to strong-arm a flicker mis-lynch based on some posts

This post also bothers me because he's viewing her as noob town/mis-lynch bait, but still views her as scum. I'm confused on what he thinks of her and his overall impression of FF and Flicker seem fake. He also implies that a few posts of Flicker were very scummy, and it seems like he's portraying himself as look, I'm not scum bc I'm not doing X Y Z. It just feels off

[WhyMafia]

Rn my biggest scum reads are Eragon/Oka

[WhyMafia]

Unfortunately I have to go now but I'll probably be able to post again today

[OkaPoka]

are you all caught up now?

I don't really want to interrupt your stream of consciousness while you are catching up

[WhyMafia]

Nah, not close yet sorry :/

[OkaPoka]

k gl ill keep reading what you post but i wont really comment until you finish

[Quick]

I am having second thoughts on Ice. Reason I was SRing him before is because a lot of his thought process in terms of reads is just plain wrong, but maybe he is actually just a newb and doesn't know any better.

Ex. Him saying nancy poking holes in everything is Scummy... That's actually pretty damn Townie IMO. His Thought process is overly black and white which is not something I would expect from someone playing in games with 20 PRs. I can explain this, but don't feel like it. I have a lot of experience all over the web so just trust me on this. Still, he has this kind of ignorance that I can't help comes from Town.

[OkaPoka]

@ff is your case still reliant on me being too aggro and that not fitting my meta?

[WhyMafia]

yeah this is def a stunt i'd pulled only to be forced to reread the game later
question is will quick actually reread the game

@quick how much do you stick to your morals

Not very well, unfortunately, because I have zero self-disipline.

well does that mean you will go back on your word saying you wont catch up if you become a viable lynch?

uh trinity's recent post don't seem to disprove my theory tho

Lmao this is certainly a wording

trinity's recent postings do not seem to disprove my theory that trinity is not being proactive and trying to actively engage with others*

Nancy, in this posts oka said I’m not being proactive and I’m not trying to engage with others. I don’t think this is true.

you think you are being real proactive in engaging with others?
alright i guess ill do a bigish post
9 answering nancy's rqs questions
10 making a jokey comment
11 rvs vote
44 another rvs vote that put ff at l2 which will be clarified later
62 trinity responds to nancy about rvs stuff
63 "I liked it"
64 more rvs things
67 maybe proactive? just seems to be a side comment
69 clarifying 67 - prompted by nancy
71 clarifying 67 - prompted by nancy
100 prompted by nancy
101 want clarification from nancy on reads
117 explaining why she has no scumreads, promises to do more investigating later
118 thanking nancy for explaining
119 clarifying when prompted by nancy
121 answering my questions
264 explaining why she doesn't believe l-2 to be a big deal
288 catching up post
293 i made a post! trinity says im scummy for thinking she is scummy and im looking for excuses to vote her but i mean yeah that's mafia, asks why ff would hate me for voting me, i clarify later, i guess it's proactive? but she is also just engaging a person who is voting her so it's more reactive.
294 double post
297 time zones
299 reads, does something semi-proactive which is making her rvs vote her permanent your sus vote. decent post i like it
301 fluff
302 fluff
307 fluff
308 answering questions
382 showing solidarity for someone who might vote ff
387 "proactive" question after i claim that she hasn't been proactive
391 clarifying her question
393 meh
395 clarifying her position when prompted by nancy
399 clarifying her position when prompted by nancy

has very few moments of proactive town moments, most of her posts are either fluff or reacting to other questions which is i guess is kinda normal. but the only real proactive/unique thing she has done is mark Formerfish as possible scum, but she has yet to really follow up on that and engage with formerfish. maybe if she builds a more solid case against ff and responds to some of the points ff makes in response to nancy's case and takes a more active stance in challenging FF ill move off this but for now I see this as scum who is sitting back and not wanting to heavily engage with people so the spotlight isn't on her.

Confession - got lazy and skimmed the next 15 pages ;P

[WhyMafia]

that quote shouldn't be there oops

[OkaPoka]

its a good quote you quoted tho, you should be convinced by now

[WhyMafia]

anyways @Oka what do you have to say? For now I will VOTE: Oka

[WhyMafia]

mahhh, I suppose I overlooked Trinity. I feel like Nancy's 570 kind of represents how I feel. I want Trinity to do more, and she seems to be nooby to me. She isn't really pinging my scum radar, but I get what you mean by her being passive and not being proactive. @Trinity, can you convince me on who your biggest scum read is and why we should Lynch them? @Oka can you do the same?

[OkaPoka]

your case is wrong?

Point to me what's scummy and I'll rebut.

I guess lazy is a fair assessment of me, wouldn't say coaster tho, coasting would be sheeping onto nancy and going afk for the rest of the game.

And if you don't like my interactions with trinity, you do you i guess. I built my case on trinity and am voting her because i scumread her, I feel like she doesn't want to dirty her hands with lynches and as a result isn't engaging in a meaningful manner with people unless prompted to. 90% of her interactions are with nancy, who I'm pretty sure trinity isn't even trying to push. She isn't going out of her way to interact with others.

pedit: predicted and outsmarted also refer to the post you accidentally quoted