Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Errantparabola]

Tryhard post tonight

[Gustavo]

so you're basically just resigned to losing to me if i'm scum?

Yes. You’ve been able to stay out of the crosshairs and as we near lylo, nobody really sees you as scum. Regardless of who is lynched today, you won’t be lynched tomorrow by anyone. Scum will push the other townie, the other townie will push scum. The remaining clear will have to either pick between them or magically find something they didn’t find today.

Literally no chance you get lynched inho

[Gustavo]

but you're instead looking for reasons to find other people scummy and are kinda just ignoring me and your read on me

How have my reads been this game?

[Gustavo]

And I have looked over your posts. I’ve already said that. So you implying I haven’t isn’t accurate. Out of the 4 of us I know 1 is town. I see one who doesn’t look as bad as the other 2.

I honestly don’t think scum shot me. I honestly don’t think scum shot math either. Bv didn’t do much of value when replacing in and didn’t vote mom and only hammered the worst. That sticks out the most to me. That’s where my vote lies.

I’m voting who I think is scum. I lack the power of persuasion cause nobody ever listens to me.

[Gustavo]

On my phone cause campus internet’s down. I will respond to things later
Here is a very rough, but well ordered set, of my reads


Bernie
Nauci
Irre
Keyser
Shoshin
Gustavo
BlackVoid
Skitter
NotMafia
Worst
Mom

Anyone find this list weird? Errant has both scum as his top 2 reads?

[brassherald]

Had a rough day where I had to break up with someone who had broken up with me and was, if I'm being fully honest, emotionally manipulative. So, all that in mind, votecount in the morning. And before you message me or anything, I feel great about finally standing up for myself, and the main rough part is the actual action of getting through more attempts at manipulation.

[Gustavo]

If my wife doesn’t nag me I’ll dig through stuff on my phone

[Gustavo]

i cant wait for mom and the worst to both inexplicably flip town and for us to lose the game

I don’t understand this post considering he’s supposedly scum reading at least one of them.

[Gustavo]

I neighborized worst.
I told him that he was obviously softing PR. I asked where his reads were and said that he was pushing nauci and skitter hard yesterday and setting them up as partners with mom while trying to push mom and that was suspicious to me

@errant. Where are these obvious hints that he was hinting at a Pr? Why if you saw them was he not higher on your list?

[Gustavo]

the worst
Errantparabola
Irrelephant11
Momrangal

Mom is his top scum read but isn’t on the mom wagon?

[Gustavo]

I honestly don’t know what I’m looking for that I haven’t found already. I feel like I’m nitpicking.

Bv doesn’t react at all when shos claims I was protected. Literally nothing. If I was in that situation I’d have reacted

[Gustavo]

I honestly think tw faked a guilty on his partner. That’s my bottom line today. He avoided a mom wagon, he hammered scum who faked a guilty on him instead of being sooner on the wagon.

That’s my vote.

[BlackVoid]

I'm back. @Irrelephant, I was also following the game that you linked and I'm going to look over it again to see what Stungun is like with his partners.

@Gustavo, you're just rehashing talking points at this point. Both have been discussed extensively and you still going "suspected Momrangal but didn't vote her" and "didn't react to Shoshin claiming I was protected" isn't really inspiring me with a lot of confidence. If you are town here, I'd suggest looking deeper and re-reading relevant parts of the game.

[Gustavo]

I honestly don’t know what I’m looking for that I haven’t found already. I feel like I’m nitpicking.

Bv doesn’t react at all when shos claims I was protected. Literally nothing. If I was in that situation I’d have reacted

Like I just posted this. There is literally nothing else I can read that I haven’t already. Your defense doesn’t convince me. I’m not moving my vote off you so piss off

[Gustavo]

I’ve literally read the iso of you and errant 5 times. Read skitters twice.

The relevant part is your top scum read was mom and you didn’t vote mom.
Mom had the larger wagon and you talked about voting the worst instead of mom.

Mom flipped PR, the worst flipped goon. I wonder why the sudden shift and yet no vote.

I don’t buy that you needed to read more. The goal is to find and vote scum and you didn’t do that.

[BlackVoid]

So, from that game, Stungun starts off by scumreading their buddy platfleece when there was pressure on them but then votes a different townie because he wanted to see more from him. Then continues making an early push on him saying that a question of theirs pinged him. Afterward, they hard-bus him while a wagon develops.

My overall impression from reading the game is that Stungun is likely a player that favors bussing. Something notable here is that he never considers the possibility of his partner being town except for a minor point where he says he likes a response that his partner had given. I think he's the type who would be hesitant to defend or townread their partners for fear of looking wrong/scummy when they flip. Obviously this is a single game so I'm hesitant to draw a more definite conclusion.

Based on that, I'm thinking it's most likely Gustavo here. I also remembered something that was worrying me but I keep forgetting to bring up: I really didn't like Gustavo's hop onto the Gamma wagon. He tunnels Shoshin, votes Gamma, then unvotes simply because Shoshin was voting Gamma. But votes Gamma back despite Shoshin still voting Gamma. There's no logical explanation as to what caused this change of mind. I see scum motivation in pushing there because there was heavy suspicion on Momrangal D1 and skitter was trying pretty hard to launch a wagon there and not succeeding. Analyzing it now, it feels like Gustavo backed off of his Shoshin tunnel because if he kept tunneling and didn't help Gamma get lynched, the pressure may have turned to Momrangal.

[Gustavo]

To everyone else. Clearly I’m inept at deciding which one of bv and errant is scum. If my reasons aren’t good enough for anyone, I can’t keep reading the same posts in hopes of finding something better or I would have found it already.

To me it’s either a fake BP claim or a fake neighbor claim. I realize it isn’t the same for keyser/elephant but asking me to put more effort when I’ve already put in a lot is just ridiculous. I’ve been top 2 in effort put into this entire game.

[Gustavo]

There's no logical explanation as to what caused this change of mind.

I was one of the only people who had reasons for gamma. Try again.

[Gustavo]

The worst or Gamma Emerald, those are my two picks
Gimme better wagons, it's how I get my kicks

VOTE: GEmerald

I can play that game also. The worst had 4 votes. He scum reads the worst but doesn’t join the larger wagon.

Maybe math was trying to shift focus off the worst?

[BlackVoid]

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and

his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong.

I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

Your reasoning is here. Not voting all game is not a scumtell. The bolded is kinda silly. Town doesn't know who scum is so will always be considering multiple possibilities.

Now that he flipped town, I'm curious what you think happened there. You seemed to very definitive views about certain things being scumtells. So, you pushed Gamma for not voting, he flipped town. Then you push me for not voting. Why isn't there any sort of re-evaluation on whether the things you are calling scumtells actually are or not?

[Gustavo]

That is where I am leaving it. I am going to try and just put my scum read of her on the backburner and start looking for other scum. I don't want to tunnel anymore and I don't want to argue. it's statistically proven to be detriment to town when these kinds of arguments happen.

And I did have a logical reason as to why I moved on from shos.

Plus deadline was like 5 days away and shos wasn’t happening.

So thanks bv. You just gave me even more confidence in my vote.

[BlackVoid]

VOTE: Gamma

UNVOTE:

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong. I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

Your answer still doesn't explain to me why you unvoted and put your vote back on. You unvoted purely because Shoshin was voting Gamma. You seemed very, very confident that Shoshin is scum to the point where her being on a wagon is enough reason to leave it. But when you saw the VC in 1198 with Shoshin still on the Gamma wagon, you put your vote back on. Nothing really changed in the interim.

[BlackVoid]

And I did have a logical reason as to why I moved on from shos.

You moved on from Shoshin to someone Shoshin was voting. But previously, Shoshin voting someone was a reason for you to not vote them. You didn't have to vote Gamma there. You could have voted Momrangal.

[Gustavo]

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and

his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong.

I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

Your reasoning is here. Not voting all game is not a scumtell. The bolded is kinda silly. Town doesn't know who scum is so will always be considering multiple possibilities.

Now that he flipped town, I'm curious what you think happened there. You seemed to very definitive views about certain things being scumtells. So, you pushed Gamma for not voting, he flipped town. Then you push me for not voting. Why isn't there any sort of re-evaluation on whether the things you are calling scumtells actually are or not?

He and shos are [redacted].

No need to kick them while they are down.

Gamma basically scum slipped. Sometimes town do it, gamma votes me for no reason and then goes on to say I’m scum but I’m wrong. Scum can’t be wrong. Wrong means you are uninformed.

Gamma and I argued and it was very apparent he wasn’t playing from a town mindset. He wasn’t scum hunting and he wasn’t voting either.

Town’s biggest weapons are voice and vote. He looked like scum. Day was ending soon and I had to go with the crowd.

[Gustavo]

Your answer still doesn't explain to me why you unvoted and put your vote back on.

Why I unvoted is very clear. If you can’t see why I unvoted maybe buy some glasses.

I went to bed. Woke up and voted gamma cause I was scum reading him and Day was ending soon.

All of this was basically explained when it happened minus the part where I went to bed but looking at time stamps you can clearly see that was the case.