Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gustavo]

Nothing really changed in the interim.

Sure things changed. I went to bed. I woke up not really wanting to argue with shos anymore. I didn’t even want to talk about shos anymore. That’s why I was pissed gamma brought it back up.

At some point I had to stop working alone and start working with the rest of the players.

But go ahead. Defend your predecessor’s similar switch. When you compare the two math’s switch was hands down scummier imo m

[Gustavo]

I see scum motivation in pushing there because there was heavy suspicion on Momrangal D1

Also if you noticed. The VC after I voted gamma, he had 2 votes on him. The VC before that one, he had 3. Mom wagon wasn’t even a thing and it was falling a part.
Magen deadline approaching I could vote gamma who I was suspicious of and was a good compromise lynch OR
What? Vote mom? A wagon that never had steam and was falling apart?

No. In that situation you can’t sit there and honestly say any townie would vote mom over gamma.

[BlackVoid]

I voted both mom and the worst. I also think while some people may hate my play, it literally makes no sense for me to play like this as scum.

You voted Momrangal at a point where it was almost assured that she was the lynch of the day with a small chance that it could be TheWorst. Prior to that, you mostly defended her and tunneled Shoshin. Why would it make no sense for you to play like this as scum? What could you possibly have done at that point to save them?

You also briefly voted me for suggesting that both Momrangal and TheWorst claim. On hindsight, if people listened to me, that would have actually been very anti-scum since we'd be forcing two scum into locking their claims.

The day Momrangal was lynched, you tunneled Shoshin. After the wagon grew to L-2 with the counterwagon also being scum, you put the wagon to L-1 with no reason (I assume your reason is something like nobody is listening to your Shoshin read so you're going with the crowd, correct me if I'm wrong.)

As for your vote on TheWorst:

VOTE: the worst

Claim results and I’ll unvote.

This is what you said. Prior to that, you were pushing me. You clearly had intent to unvote TheWorst when he claims. He claimed and you didn't post that night until he got lynched. So, we don't actually have any information on how you would have reacted to me vs TheWorst.

It's not just that behavior but why you think it makes literally no sense for you to play like that as scum is what I'm having trouble following.

1. You never pushed Momrangal and voted when there was no chance of a town lynch that day or much of a chance of anyone other than Momrangal being lynched.
2. You voted TheWorst for a claim, clearly stated that you would unvote after a claim and your vote winded up being on the VC simply because you weren't there to react to his claim and he got hammered before that.

Neither of these behaviors exclude you from being scum. It doesn't make sense for you to bring these up as points in your favor.

[Gustavo]

Keep in mind I had just replaced in around post 981. I immediately get into a fight with shos. Mom or gamma wasn’t even on my radar. Elephant asked me to iso 4 people. None of those 4 people were mom. I start iso’ing them and gamma stands out to me since they never voted.

Why would I join a wagon that never formed, was falling apart, and I had no read on them whatsoever?

When I could either continue to tunnel shos or help town lynch somebody who others were scum reading?

I wouldn’t.

Your predecessor scum read both and joined the gamma wagon also so if I’m suspicious for mine, your slot is also and your predecessor’s vote is hands down scummier.

Did he even have a reason for gamma? Probably not as good as mine

[Gustavo]

You voted Momrangal at a point where it was almost assured that she was the lynch of the day with a small chance that it could be TheWorst.

And mom was your top scumnread and you didn’t vote her at all. You instead say you are thinking of voting the worst instead.

Didn’t want to bus the encryptor?

[Gustavo]

You also briefly voted me for suggesting that both Momrangal and TheWorst claim

Because it’s anti-town to ask 2 people to claim when neither are at l-1

[BlackVoid]

My pred suspected two people (Gamma and TheWorst). He clearly seemed to have suspected Gamma more so he voted him. It's not unusual for townie to have their primary suspect flip town and their second suspect be scum. I can't talk about what reasons he may have had because he wasn't really posting any of those reasons. He also didn't join the Gamma wagon. He was the first vote there.

[BlackVoid]

You voted Momrangal at a point where it was almost assured that she was the lynch of the day with a small chance that it could be TheWorst.

And mom was your top scumnread and you didn’t vote her at all. You instead say you are thinking of voting the worst instead.

Didn’t want to bus the encryptor?

They were both fluctuating in scumminess. I explained what made me go for TheWorst in the end.

[Gustavo]

Neither of these behaviors exclude you from being scum.

Then vote me. I’m not scum and I’ve already said today should be you or me.

I’m not afraid to die. You clearly are

[BlackVoid]

You also briefly voted me for suggesting that both Momrangal and TheWorst claim

Because it’s anti-town to ask 2 people to claim when neither are at l-1

No, it's not. That's an overrated context-free accusation that people throw around. If we know we're lynching between two people and time is running out, having both claims on the table and people evaluating them both and deciding a lynch is a better outcome than someone claiming PR 24 hours to deadline and having everyone scramble to find an alternative lynch where many people may not even be online and our options would be pretty limited.

[Gustavo]

No, it's not.

Yes it is. Otherwise it’s role fishing. Asking 2 people to claim is definitely role fishing

[BlackVoid]

Neither of these behaviors exclude you from being scum.

Then vote me. I’m not scum and I’ve already said today should be you or me.

I’m not afraid to die. You clearly are

If you're town, what benefit do you get from me voting you? I'll vote when I've finished re-reading the game and feel more confident that I've evaluated both options.

No one is "afraid" of dying. It should be clear from all three of our perspectives (me, you, Errant) that as long as we don't get lynched, we will win the game for town. This is also true for the one that's scum. The only real difference is that town are motivated to make the right choice and end the game today to not bring it into LYLO.

So, I'm puzzled why you are both okay with your lynch and also not trying to solve the game. (You don't even think skitter should be off the table so that's even more game that you need to solve)

[Gustavo]

It might actually be a good idea for TheWorst/Momrangal to claim. If we're going to wait all the way until intent is given, we're probably going to scramble towards deadline and it seems pretty obvious that those are our likely options.

Mom had 5 votes. The worst had 2.

There is no town motivation for you to ask the worst to claim also

[Gustavo]

So, I'm puzzled why you are both okay with your lynch and also not trying to solve the game.

Why the misrep? I’ve solved the game. Scum is you or errant, most likely you.

[Gustavo]

Mom never got to post because I put her at l-1 letting NM hammer

Now from the POV of bv being scum. Asking 2 people to claim, mom who’s l-2 and is scum PR, him mentioning we need both claims in case one claims a PR is kind of suspicious

[Gustavo]

I’m like 90% bv now.

[BlackVoid]

@Gustavo, I really want an answer to the substance of my 3452. You replied to it twice once attacking a tangential point, the second challenging me to vote you. But do you really believe that your behavior excludes you from being scum? You bring them as points in your favor "

I voted both mom and the worst. I also think while some people may hate my play, it literally makes no sense for me to play like this as scum.

" That's very much lacking context. In context, neither of your votes are impactful. Your Momrangal vote came when the lynch was pretty much assured. You made no push on her prior and actually defended her. Your TheWorst vote was for a claim and you stated you'd unvote when he claims. He got hammered before you came back to the thread. So that statement is a pretty big misrepresentation of your play.

[Gustavo]

I’ve responded to that post already

[Gustavo]

But do you really believe that your behavior excludes you from being scum

Yes. What a dumb question

[BlackVoid]

I’ve responded to that post already

You responded. You didn't respond to my biggest issue with your votes.

[Gustavo]

So that statement is a pretty big misrepresentation of your play.

How?

Did I vote both of them? Yes or no

[Gustavo]

You didn't respond to my biggest issue with your votes.

I don’t care about your issues with my vote.

[BlackVoid]

So that statement is a pretty big misrepresentation of your play.

How?

Because you are ignoring the context of your votes which I just went into.

[Gustavo]

Because you are ignoring the context of your votes which I just went into.

Context to me doesn’t matter. It may matter to keyaer and elephant but my statement was the truth. I never claimed to have scum read them or pushed for their lynch. I just said I was on both which I was.

[BlackVoid]

You brought it up as a point in your favor. Based on context, it's not. So, it's misleading.