Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gustavo]

Yeah that helps me remember it too but fwiw actually "Momrangal" which isn't obviously gendered and Nauci's avi is literally the face of a woman and iirc he misgendered her along with shoshin and skitter

anyway like I said it's not strong enough that any of you will likely sheep me about it but it is strong enough that it adds to what is already my scummiest read

[skitter30]

Mom is the only woman in this game Gustavo has never misgendered! Y'all might not put stock in it, but I do. VOTE: Gustavo harder

i don't think this is remotely ai

[BlackVoid]

Hmm, okay. I guess that makes sense. Gustavo's responses and self-meta felt pretty genuine though. But it's also true that he was one of the few vocal opponents to scum being lynched. I'm going to see if Errant had any behaviors earlier in the game where he has anti-associations with flipped scum. (@skitter)

[Gustavo]

Somebody give elephant man the stupid award post game. I’ve seen some fucking stupid accusations but the mom/gender thing takes the cake.

VOTE: gus

I just can’t deal with it anymore.

[Irrelephant11]

lol I don't think it's AI either I mostly wanted to point it out before lynch because then I can say I told you so

It's been so long since I considered the possibility that it's EP. Sigh. Is that where we're moving, collectively?

[skitter30]

i really really don't think it's ep

and this is townie af from gustavo too

idk maybe it's just bv?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh frick that's hammer. gg?

[skitter30]

no i unvoted

[skitter30]

it's you/bv/gus

[Irrelephant11]

one day

one day I will pretend it's a hammer and will get a confesh

Oh well it's fun to keep trying

[skitter30]

whoops, sorry

[BlackVoid]

i really really don't think it's ep

and this is townie af from gustavo too

idk maybe it's just bv?

Well it's not me.

[Irrelephant11]

i really really don't think it's ep

and this is townie af from gustavo too

idk maybe it's just bv?

Well it's not me.

oh well that simplifies things

[skitter30]

honestly i'm kinda at an impasse because i don't think it's any of you

it's nice that there are two clears because otherwise this would be much much worse

whoever it is has played super super well

i'm going to go and be productive irl now but i'm going to continue thinking about this obviously

[BlackVoid]

I don't know if I can convince you to re-assess Errant when I myself am so unsure and there's a fair bit of evidence against Gustavo/Stungun. I think the best option is to flip Gustavo. If we're right, awesome. If we're wrong, then I at least know for sure that Errant is scum. I can buy that you townread Errant harder than me if he's actually town. But I don't think you'll lynch a town-me over a scum-Errant. If he's scum, there's definitely going to be something I can point out that'll explain why he's scum to get you to re-evaluate. @skitter.

[BlackVoid]

Also, Gustavo could have easily self-hammered instead of asking Keyser to do it. He's self-voted twice when it wasn't a hammer which does point to it being more WIFOM than genuine.

[Gustavo]

Please don’t town read the mud slinging from bv when I flip town. Never seen anyone grasp at so many straws in my life.

[BlackVoid]

I just realized from reading the Neapolitan wiki page that it's power gets weaker the fewer vanilla townies there are in the game. That actually makes sense as a counterbalance to have so many non-VT roles.

1-shot neighborizer is a silly role and 1-shot BP is not all that powerful but both are unconfirmable so that acts as a balancing mechanic. I felt town would be somewhat overpowered with a tracker AND Neapolitan AND odd-night doctor. But if Gustavo is scum and Neapolitan can only confirm five townies as VT (Irrelephant, Gamma, Skitter, Keyser, N_Mafia) while four others can't be (me, Rask, Errant, Shoshin), that limits the power of a Neapolitan significantly and makes three middling power roles for the town (tracker, Neapolitan, and Odd Night Doctor).

The 1-shot BP works well in tandem with odd-night doctor as well because it increases the chances that town will gain a day. Odd-night doctor by itself isn't all that helpful because the chances of having two saves are pretty minimal which basically means even with a successful save, town will just have to play with an even number of players.

I think it's just smart setup design to have a lot of weaker PRs in a setup with Neapolitan to make it harder to confirm and POE scum out mechanically.

[Irrelephant11]

mmm I mean one nitpicky thing is that neighborizer is confirmable when you don't neighborize scum

[BlackVoid]

Only the role is confirmable. Scum neighborizers are a thing so it doesn't say anything about alignment.

[Irrelephant11]

Oh I see what you mean, true I guess. But still not even that is confirmed here whereas when you neighborize town you can at least believe the role is real

[brassherald]

John Adams was the first President to live in the White House.

VoteCount 5.04

Gustavo (3)

~ Irrelephant11, BlackVoid, Gustavo

Not Voting (3)

~ Keyser Soze, Errantparabola, skitter30

With 6 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.

Day 5 ends in (expired on 2018-08-04 21:30:00)

[Gustavo]

John Adams was the first President to live in the White House.

I have a very interesting tidbit about Adams and Thomas Jefferson, not sure if it’s in your notes for future facts or not.

[skitter30]

I don't know if I can convince you to re-assess Errant when I myself am so unsure and there's a fair bit of evidence against Gustavo/Stungun. I think the best option is to flip Gustavo. If we're right, awesome. If we're wrong, then I at least know for sure that Errant is scum. I can buy that you townread Errant harder than me if he's actually town. But I don't think you'll lynch a town-me over a scum-Errant. If he's scum, there's definitely going to be something I can point out that'll explain why he's scum to get you to re-evaluate. @skitter.

on some sort of gut, fundemental level i'm townreading him. like i can't really make the game make sense right now if he's scum. idk i just don't see it. i don't want to lynch him today. like i agree that the reaction to the neighbhorhood thing is the towniest part of his iso but like ... i don't really scumread the rest of it; at best i consider it nai. like he hasn't done anything scummy and parts of his iso are like bleeding town in the context of scum!tw and the guilty and all that jazz

and gustavo's being super town right now; i don't know if the last scum gets that pissed and just votes themselves, twice now. or like keeps the vote on him.

amongst the three of you he was prob set up the best to coast after a tw scumflip and his trajectories on flipped scum are kinda gross but like i'm townreading him today.

and i think you're kinda out of your scumrange and you just feel super nuanced in a way that i think you probably have trouble faking, especially over a sustained period of time. that and the tw-guilty thing doesn't feel like something you were involved in planning - like we tend to approach the game kinda similarly and like that's never how i fake a guilty with my partner because my goal would be to coast after and it feels too messy for that.

at the same time i'm very aware that your path-to-victory if scum is basically through pocketing me so i can't just call you a townread and call it a day because like if you *are* scum here that's how you win

(and i don't even know if like appealing to me here is AI here because if you're town that's basically what you need to do too)

i guess i'm somewhere like gustavo > you > ep but i don't feel confident in it

[skitter30]

and like this has been a really really good game for town and i just don't want us to collectively choke and lose