Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Eragon]

@A50, I’ll look at it overall, but I saw you say something about being gone or shit
Ye, I completely lost this game, I get good about it the beginning, but ~page 10 I just lost all my WIM(which, for whoever asked it, basically stands for whim of the game and your activity and drive). I’m hoping to get back into it soon, but I’m just kinda bleh rn

The remark about activity concerns Poseidon. Your activity is plausible. I had to check on one of your most recent scum games though to verify you do post that much as scum (you had over 190 posts in one day phase, and it ended with your lynch as the Mafia Roe Cop, if it helps you recognize what game I checked. You were a replacement that came in on D3, as far as I can remember).

hmmmmmmmmmm

this wasn't mine then, because I had a game where I replaced in D1 as the mafia role cop and got lynched D4 in endgame(Newbie 1882) and I replaced in (IDK what day) in newbie (1879??{Plotinus's} as the mafia goon and got lynched as tracker-confirmed scum}

SORRY SORRUY SORRY MEANT 1881 WE SHALT NOT SPEAK OF THIS MISTAKE

[Almost50]

@A50 I thought you had manatee as town earlier. what changed?

Read my ISO. This question has been asked and responded to earlier.

[Toranaga]

what do you make of eragon fake hammering and then proceeding to clear me yesterday? I don't see the scum motivation in doing it.

You claimed VT. Scum don't want to lynch a VT, or -at least- not before outing a PR. "Let's switch to someone else and see what they claim".. then if that's a PR .. WELL DONE. If not, then they don't need to worry about two slots, which helps when deciding on the NK. Simple.

I haven't

completely

ruled you out as scum. I just think it's very unlikely for you to be, and I'm willing to try and work with you for today in an attempt to actually lynch scum.

that actually makes sense in this setting

both scum would have to be very deeply townread for it to be better than just taking the mislynch, though

but yeah I see what you're saying. I didn't think of this angle.

[Almost50]

@Eragon: I was talking of Newbie 1881 (you did replace in on D1, but I skimmed the VC's quickly and didn;t see your name before D3. My bad.

[Wh4t]

A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?

Is your connection THAT slow or are you amnesiac and have just remembered it?

Lol. Dude I just remembered you saying that and it made me wonder if you knew who I was.

A50 what does Duck have to do with me reading you correctly?

In fact, what does this question have to do with your read on me? How will my answer help you get an accurate read on me?

I have no idea what Duck had to do with anything do I was hoping you could point me in the right direction. If it helps me get a read on you, by being a relevant reference to a past ge we've played then cool.

[Wh4t]

I'm so eloquent.

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

https://media.giphy.com/media/ruhPcuDNmS12M/giphy.gif

I heard DUCK.

DO YOU WANT ME TO CALL THE WORST?

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

[Almost50]

both scum would have to be very deeply townread

BINGO! That's one reason I put Fromage ahead of Poseidon in my lynch pool, and Eragon sure fits the description as "very deeply TR'd, don't you agree?

[Wh4t]

Spoiler:

[Almost50]

Lol. Dude I just remembered you saying that and it made me wonder if you knew who I was.

In that case, I do. I even said something like "isn't it always the case that you find me scummy?" because you do.

[Almost50]

Spoiler:

tw is gonna grill you over that one, kiwi.

[Wh4t]

Lol. Dude I just remembered you saying that and it made me wonder if you knew who I was.

In that case, I do. I even said something like "isn't it always the case that you find me scummy?" because you do.

It is safer to find people scummy when I respect their play. It doesn't mean I'm not trying to sort you, which makes it difficult when you're avoiding interactions with me. I would've appreciated a reasonable response to you calling for a lynch on a claimed VT so early.

Although your "lynch the VT" plan seems clever, you're assuming that scum are rational enough to see the optimal play here. Another problem is that now scum are aware of the plan it would actually be safer to claim VT than PR and hope they can blend in and avoid being lynched.

[Wh4t]

VOTE: Poseidon

I also feel like Tor isn't really reading the game and interacting with me like I'd expect him to but I don't want to believe he would call me shit as scum just to avoid being lynched. I think it's better not to touch egg or Fromage today but I would like Fromage to catch up soon.

[Toranaga]

I'm going To go down In list order from the initial post
These are gonna work thru the logic and past actions in the game assuming the pairing as the assumption

Spoiler: Inferno/A50

Inferno/A50

Inferno in Post 42 pushes back after mistakingly thinking a50 was saying he was the BEST wagon, this interaction seems odd to me unless Inferno REALLY hates being bussed and is paranoid about it
Post 45 follows the already budding suggestions that Inferno is PRHunting scum and saying Infernos response in 42 is bad, could be A50 pushing the eject button on Inferno and bussing HARD, then sets Me up as a potential sequential lynch based on my lack of activity
A50 arguing with inferno after this point while inferno fails to grasp how pointing to VT's in particular is PR hunting, This feels too oddly genuine for me to begin to attribute any of this fighting to scum motivation
Everyone continues discussing Inferno, A50 directly responds to Buj with his reasons for his push in Post 92
A50 questions me to put my money where my mouth is, maybe trying to set me up? Either way I responeded he might have still pegged me as scum partners? A50 also excuses himself from interacting with Inferno unless he chooses to
A50 makes it clear he wants to lynch a VT today, which someone points out later that it looks like he's feeding scum strategy on how they should claim (which if you're town a50 thanks for the Delicious WIFOM), this could be A50 trying to signal to inferno how to claim as scum in this game and then excuse himself as a reason to vote out a different person if they claim VT
A50 directly responds to criticisms by futher outlining optimal town play even further in a bizarrely contradictory fashion, not understanding that on the off chance scum doesn't know it, then town would have the upper hand (okay that sentence doesn't read very well but the point is that Almost50 turned the whole thing into a big public WIFOM fest for all sides of the town to enjoy)
A50 does follow this up with a series of explanations that makes the strategy sound pretty sound, although the WIFOM of it all means we still really can't act on that sequence of events happening
A50 dissapears for a while and then comes back to supply a scum game and then defend the usefullness of L-1, but also takes the direct question from Eragon to vote me and take some pressure off the wagon
He also emphasizes Inferno should claim

Thoughts:

While I could see a picture that A50 is simply hard bussing, a lot of it would depend on setting me up as a target and I don't think A50 is actually doing that. It seems A50 is playing with a lot of his thoughts close to the belt, so perhaps I need to do a meta dive to see if this is usually the case. I'm not really sure this pairing would make 100% sense unless A50 is the most enthusiastic busser yet. I also don't feel like Inferno's reaction would make sense for this to be a scum pairing either.

Spoiler: Inferno/Fromage

Inferno/Fromage:

Fromage lays in the background and remains inactive until 82 and doesn't really touch Inferno directly at first, but begins to ask him a question and praise an early criticism of Inferno.
Fromage continues to ask questions of other players as well as calls out A50's earlier post as feeding scum strategy.
He asks If i'm fine with Inferno dying. After Inferno's response, I reply yes.
He also asks if I changed my mind on being uncomfortable with fast Day 1 Lynches, I don't answer this question due to phoneposting. If you're curious, when I mentioned being uncomfortable it was before I was locked in to the idea that Inferno is scum. Inferno responed terribly, and I got a lot more comfortable with lynching Inferno whenever.
Fromage clarifies his defense with Eragon, then outlines a case for me being scum due to inconsistency.
Fromage says hes busy and promises to read more into Inferno on Tuesday, asks Eragon to contribute his thoughts on my L-1 vote on inferno, also argues against his L-2 favorability.

Thoughts:

Fromage hasn't touched on a lot of players in the game, he's only sort of interacted with Inferno and argued a little bit with Eragon. He asks direct questions but I'm not sure of his whole thoughts if he has them together yet. I could see this all being scum behavior that makes sense when inferno is so publicly flailing but I also don't see why he wouldn't have simply backed the manatee wagon as a response. Setting my wagon up just seems way to town for me to really buy into Fromage being scum

Spoiler: Inferno/Eragon

Inferno/Eragon

Eragon writes semi wall posts both bussing his partner while also earning towncred and drawing suspiscion by questioning other posters
Eragon responds to some small criticisms and then continues to analyze anything he can, and must be the best at impersonating town
Eragon does ask for votes to remain on L-2, perhaps as a cover to buy inferno some time
Okay theres really not much to say here

Thoughts:

So Eragon is probably my strongest townread and I really don't see this pair happening, and I dont really see him as a user that could relentlessly bus with a smile, I seriously had a hard time picturing his actions motivated by scum at all

Spoiler: Inferno/Egg

Inferno/Egg

Egg Takes a super early opportunity to bus inferno at the literal first possible moment
Also questions inferno's commitment to vote, could be a trap set, as when inferno changes his vote he votes manatee for flip flopping
Egg townreads Buj, but keeps his reasons close to the belt at first but explains it, saying He liked that Buj called out inferno's crappy townread on Buj, this could be to try and position himself as town rather if Inferno flips scum?
Egg gets busy

Thoughts:

Egg should post more, I know he'll be back Sunday to catch up. He's really in the null/town lean for me for now but i want to see more thoughts on the recent stuff

Spoiler: Inferno/Manatee

Inferno/Manatee

Soft pushes Inferno then flips to hard pushing when egg calls him out on it. He later townreads eragon and scumreads Inferno
He asks for inferno meta
That is literally all that has happened.

Thoughts:

This is hardcore lurking or extreme activity. Its getting to the point where town or scum I'd much rather he'd replace out. I know this is supposed to be about the persepctive scum partners but its getting ridiculous. If he is scum, his behavior makes complete sense but ultimately his behavior is such a nuisance. Ugh. To reiterate:

Manatee PLEASE consider subbing out. There's no shame in being busy, and if you're lurking this hard I have hard time seeing how this is strategy

Spoiler: Inferno/Poseidon

Inferno/Poseidon

No you know what, You're worse than Manatee. Get back in the game and do a proper catchup or sub out PLEASE.

Poseidon needs to catch up or sub out. This is just inactivity and its really annoying.

Spoiler: Inferno/Buj

Inferno/Buj

Buj calls out inferno on his bad read as a bus attempt
Buj runs up the Manatee wagon to try and give his scum buddy a chance without fully unbussing Inferno, Puts Manatee at L-2
Swivels to Inferno to being lynchbait to dismiss the wagon
Buj really starts participating in the game and asking direct questions while sprinkiling in some reads here and there, also supports an Inferno claim, but leaves inferno's name out of the reads in 171

Thoughts:

I could see this pairing happening. He feels like he's silently keeping an associative distance from inferno, which feels weird. While I also shared the Manatee suspicion earlier in the game, at this point Manatee is merely a few more posts worse than Poseidon. To me, the more time passes on, Mantee's participation has not stayed proportional and reads more like someone who isn't even playing the game. While yes Manatee has done a very scummy thing, its arguably the ONLY thing he's done the whole game. That doesn't make him unscummy, but my gut is telling me he just needs to be replaced.

Man that took longer than expected

This post made me realize we're dealing with two extraordinarly absent players (egg cuts it close but has a promised date of return and catch up we can hold him to) which makes trying to find second scum REALLY more difficult

I'll be busy for a while but shoot any questions if you have any

As a reminder all the dropdowns are fabricating a perspective assuming the pairing is true, not an argument or accusation of whats occured; this is more like a list of notes

Alright peace i'll back later

ok this is never scum

wh4t/bujaber/game/eragon?/egg? is my townpile

I liked fromage's case on game but he hasn't been active otherwise and the null pile has to go somewhere.

that leaves A50 and poseidon

I just ISO'd poseidon and have no idea what possessed me to townread it

[Wh4t]

I just ISO'd poseidon and have no idea what possessed me to townread it

Yay. Jump on.

[Toranaga]

VOTE: Poseidon

I also feel like Tor isn't really reading the game and interacting with me like I'd expect him to but I don't want to believe he would call me shit as scum just to avoid being lynched. I think it's better not to touch egg or Fromage today but I would like Fromage to catch up soon.

we had a shaky start

[Toranaga]

VOTE: poseidon

[Almost50]

I would've appreciated a reasonable response to you calling for a lynch on a claimed VT so early.

I did explain it before.. twice actually in this game. I simply think hammering a VT claim provides the PRs with a better chance of surviving through N1. I acknowledge lynching a scumster is even better but we ran someone and they claimed VT, so we either lynch them or run up someone else and risk outing a PR (most players appear scummy when they rand a PR).

As for the scum team making moves based to "counter" my directions, that would be GREAT because what I said was optimal scum play AND how the Town PRs should react to it. Do you think claiming a VT and getting hammered is a better option for them? Because Tor didn't know I wasn't gonna hammer him at that point. Anyone else who claims VT

would

be hammered (unless we're all morons and want to keep running people up until we do get a PR claim).

It was also mentioned before that the Mafioso may decide to claim the PR they are NOT immune to instead (because I said optimal play is to claim the one they're immune to in hopes to draw a CC and then their p shoots the outed PR and the other becomes effectively a VT anyway). Let them do that and I will out my counter move when/if we get a PR claim.

Can scum leave the claimed PR alive to WIFOM the town? They may, but then that could still bite them in the rearside. So, ANYTHING they do to counter my "best scum play" is actually to our benefit still. WHO hates for the claimed PR to stay alive overnight? Who hates for a Mafioso to claim VT and get lynched instantly? Who hates for them to claim the opposite PR and be countered by another move? I have it all under control.

P-edit:

VOTE: Poseidon

[Almost50]

And remember: Do NOT CC if he claims a PR, and do NOT hammer until I've come and stated what I think is best play for the PRs (whether or not the claim is true)

[GameNBurger]

That’s L-2 right?

[Poseidon]

Alright Poseidon train! Let me get all caught up before you set me ablaze please.

[GameNBurger]

If posideon is is scum I’m really gonna have to eat crow on Wh4ts slot being scum because there’s no way in my brain that they’re scum buds

That being said posideon stinks of lurker filth
As does fromage

[Poseidon]

Lurker filth...for being away for a day?

[Eragon]

hey dont include me out of lurker filth tooooooo