Mini 2032: TAZ Mafia: Murder on the Rockport Limited [over]

[Nosferatu]

Anyone ever see RC replace out of a game as scum? I'd be willing to bet it happens a lot more often as town than scum.

he got force replaced in lynch the wolves

[Varsoon]

Replacing out and being forced to replace out should both be read entirely as NAI regardless of player--to do anything else compromises the integrity of the game more than a replace-out does.
RC's slot should be read with RC's content considered. A replace-out should not buy a slot a free ticket to ride. The alignment of the slot did not change with the replacement.

varsoon, this might be a weird question, but how well do you remember games you played six months ago? like are you the sort of player who remembers details of things they pushed in games gone by?

I remember most of my games pretty well, though more the highlights than even if it was a win or a loss. My memory is fickle like that.
Like, I could give you direct quotes from some of my favorite moments modding and playing in games over three years ago, but I legitimately could not tell you even which games were wins and losses and which roles I had in the games I just linked without having to check first.
Why, what's up?

[skitter30]

I think it's really important that we try to keep the scum from ending up as leaders

Game-breaking analysis right here.

VOTE: Varsoon

It's almost as if I insinuated you were scum and that I couldn't trust you as our leader AND that your anime gimmick is really lame--did you take that all to heart and get so peeved you had to come back swatting?

VOTE: Kokichi

Gachapon vote: xRECKONERx

Now that that's out of the way.
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
I don't like you asking for gacha votes.

basically trying to decide, what, if anything, this is indicative of

he was town there so he def has a precedent for self-voting for these sort of things

your main push there for the first part of the game was him; but it looks like you backed down there when people said they were townreading him and when he kept pushing you/defending himself; here you're still at it despite people saying they townread him (ie i've been two reading him the whole time you've been pushing him) and him scumreading you in turn;

+ there seems to be omgus-y to a certain extent

basically i was wondering if you'd do the same thing as scum to town!kokichi as you did there but it looks like you don't necessarily remember this so eh

[Varsoon]

Now that you bring it up, I do remember that push.
I haven't really heard a good rationale for a townread on Kokichi--it's come off as a lot of people who are scumreading me just yes-manning Kokichi because they never liked me from the get-go.
I've waffled a bit in my confidence on the Kokichi scumread but Kokichi's persistence in doing nothing else has reaffirmed me leaning him harder into the scum camp.

[skitter30]

actually i'm kinda townreading him for his persistant outrage at you scumreading him for this and for how stubborn he's being

[Varsoon]

No one stays angry that long.
Dude's capable of doing more.

[Kokichi Oma]

I think it's really important that we try to keep the scum from ending up as leaders

Game-breaking analysis right here.

VOTE: Varsoon

It's almost as if I insinuated you were scum and that I couldn't trust you as our leader AND that your anime gimmick is really lame--did you take that all to heart and get so peeved you had to come back swatting?

VOTE: Kokichi

Gachapon vote: xRECKONERx

Now that that's out of the way.
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
I don't like you asking for gacha votes.

basically trying to decide, what, if anything, this is indicative of

he was town there so he def has a precedent for self-voting for these sort of things

your main push there for the first part of the game was him; but it looks like you backed down there when people said they were townreading him and when he kept pushing you/defending himself; here you're still at it despite people saying they townread him (ie i've been two reading him the whole time you've been pushing him) and him scumreading you in turn;

+ there seems to be omgus-y to a certain extent

basically i was wondering if you'd do the same thing as scum to town!kokichi as you did there but it looks like you don't necessarily remember this so eh

Good catch. Cause I was going to say he seems to be acting the same as he was there and was scum

[Kokichi Oma]

I'll catch up tomorrow

[Creature]

Hello, it's me
I was wondering if after all these days you'd like to meet

[Creature]

To read over everything
They say that time's supposed to inspirate ya, but I ain't done much lately

[Irrelephant11]

You want me to be more cautious of lynching varsoon
I'm not currently voting varsoon
How could I be more cautious

did your gamma vote have anything to do with varsoon?

I clearly feel Gamma is a better vote
I don't understand your objection to my play at this point
If you feel it's important please express it in a different way, I really can't wrap my head around how my not voting Varsoon is too un-cautious regarding his slot and that lack of caution somehow reveals a scum agenda

If you're wondering, I still haven't figured out if varsoon is scum or lynchbait, but the fact that multiple townreads are re-evaluating certainly makes me lean the latter enough to give him space

Hoping this is true. I am townreading creature

Seriously why are you so interested in my slot without interacting with me in any real way
@skitter, @shoshin, @sircakez, @anyone, are you noticing this? Is it just in my head? He keeps bringing me up without doing anything about me or my play
I'm townreading most everything else from him but this is weirding me out

ummm varsoon, porkens, reck, and your slot have had most of the attention in terms of votes

Gammagooey is up there too.

-snip-

826 reads quite fake. Like a big content dump to try to stave off the forming wagon.

- True
- I felt the same

Shoshin, I have yet to do this myself, but out of curiosity have you re-read all of your interactions with Varsoon? Just wondering if this is mostly misunderstanding. Like I don't townread Varsoon but I do also stand by my earlier guess that he might just be in the lynchbait spot. I'm townreading you lots so you're not the scum here but is it possible it's just playstyle differences?

Misunderstanding? No. Varsoon is scum who got caught early and now is trying to make up for it with lots of meanignless activity that hasn't actually got us any closer to finding scum and none of which actually contains anything towny. His ISO is empty of meaningful scumhunting.

Ok
I continue to feel overgamed and am having trouble remembering/understanding the case on varsoon. His frustration is seeming more genuine over time. I'll wait for your meta read on him before sheeping you again

Gammagooey's 826 is a terrible post and probably means he's partnered with Varsoon, as we suspected.

Irrel's subtle defense of Varsoon pings as well, so that's bad.

You can't have both of these... I moved from voting varsoon to voting gamma g. I'm feeling v good about gamma g flipping scum and not so good about varsoon doing the same. But yes, I see how they might be partners
Also, can you and @skitter just believe me that I'll spew town when it really matters, and not get distracted by distracted-me this game day? (and @creature and @varsoon I guess but I think they'll say "no" since they don't know me as well)

I'm actually getting really sick of you misrepresenting every single play I make. You're confbiased and nothing I ever do will be good enough, even if I single-handedly lynch the whole scum team and win this game for us.

Ehh this is ott
Like sure this is a mood
But if Shoshin's over-frustrating you, work on doing the "single-handedly lynching the whole scum team" rather than expressing your frustration over and over

If I lead a lynch on scum?
Oh, Varsoon must be bussing, he's obviously scum

No one has said this, no one has flipped. ??

Anyone ever see RC replace out of a game as scum? I'd be willing to bet it happens a lot more often as town than scum.

I think I have but like skitter can't be sure
I might check later

[Irrelephant11]

gamma g, 826 still has that like hollow feel to it.

i don't really understand why you're scumreading porkens; he had like one post that i scumread but the rest of it is kinda wtf-y but i see no scum agenda or motivation for it; like i'm not sure why being completely out of the game is more likely to come from scum than town. the i glanced at his iso in hte transformers game and he at least had some cursory scumreads and was following along (he was scum there)

also he was the biggest wagon with five votes a few hundred posts back so i'm not sure where you're getting the 'people are fine calling him scum but not voting him' bit from; he really feels like lynchbait to me tbh

-snip-

==

varsoon, this might be a weird question, but how well do you remember games you played six months ago? like are you the sort of player who remembers details of things they pushed in games gone by?

still think varsoon is town tbh

-snip-

- Agreed that Porkens feels like the definition of lynchbait here, but I am curious if that's something he's ever done on purpose
- I didn't realize you were townreading Varsoon with any real certainty... I'll just look through your ISO because you've probably already explained why

Replacing out and being forced to replace out should both be read entirely as NAI regardless of player--to do anything else compromises the integrity of the game more than a replace-out does.
RC's slot should be read with RC's content considered. A replace-out should not buy a slot a free ticket to ride. The alignment of the slot did not change with the replacement.

Agreed that replace outs (especially force replace outs ) shouldn't, in an ideal world, spew alignment. But if it does indeed say something about alignment, why would it bother you to figure that out?

To read over everything
They say that time's supposed to inspirate ya, but I ain't done much lately

You'll probably scumread me for this but I just really want to express how much I enjoy your posting on the whole

[Varsoon]

I'm actually getting really sick of you misrepresenting every single play I make. You're confbiased and nothing I ever do will be good enough, even if I single-handedly lynch the whole scum team and win this game for us.

Ehh this is ott
Like sure this is a mood
But if Shoshin's over-frustrating you, work on doing the "single-handedly lynching the whole scum team" rather than expressing your frustration over and over

If I lead a lynch on scum?
Oh, Varsoon must be bussing, he's obviously scum

No one has said this, no one has flipped. ??

I have been working, if you haven't been paying attention. I've served up RC on a plate. If you think my responses to Shoshin are purely frustration and not critique of a slot that I am losing a townread on, reconsider.

Fairly certain that folks have already drawn tons of pre-flip associations from me, like, "Oh his push there might mean they are both scum" kinda shit. It's D1. People speculating on stuff being pocketing or bussing or distancing are either faking content generation (because they have NOTHING but reads to go on) or they're lying scum. Either way, it's bad play and people should be more critical of it.

[Varsoon]

It bothers me because it's not a feature of the game.
Replace outs:
1. Compromise the scope of a game because the intent of games is to have the same players engage with each other from start to finish. It'd be like holding a 500m race but one racer gets to run a relay with other people instead of having to do the whole 500m. Regardles of any possible advantage or disadvantage that might bring to the racer running the relay, it compromises the integrity of the entire event.
2. Are NOT intentional design aspects included by the moderator--replacing out is not an ability on your rolecard or a public mechanic to exploit. It's a courtesy of moderation in order to keep a game running despite out of game circumstances. However, when it becomes abused as an in-game tool to either flush negative reads off a slot, force people to engage with a different content creator than the original, or anything else, it is functioning in a way that is not an inherit part of the game design.

I'm here to play Mafia and to play this specific game of mafia, first and foremost. As a moderator who has dealt with replace-outs being a major factor in weakening/ruining two of his favorite games run on-site, I am more than a bit against them. Yes, in an ideal world, no one would ever have to replace out--but it is entirely our decision to treat replace-outs in the way we do and read the slot any differently for them.

[Porkens]

Varsoon is reading town

RC was reading town to me

[skitter30]

No one stays angry that long.
Dude's capable of doing more.

idk i kinda disagree; i think it's genuine

==

Good catch. Cause I was going to say he seems to be acting the same as he was there and was scum

i think that the two scenarios look superficially similar in that he voted you for self-voting in each, but are different in that there he backed down when you kept scumreading him and other people were townreading him; here you're still scumreading him and i've been townreading you the whole time this thing has been going on but he's persisting in the read; this difference makes me think it's more likely to come from town

==

I clearly feel Gamma is a better vote
I don't understand your objection to my play at this point
If you feel it's important please express it in a different way, I really can't wrap my head around how my not voting Varsoon is too un-cautious regarding his slot and that lack of caution somehow reveals a scum agenda

If you're wondering, I still haven't figured out if varsoon is scum or lynchbait, but the fact that multiple townreads are re-evaluating certainly makes me lean the latter enough to give him space

ok let's try this since i think we might be viewing this differently: what were your thoughts about varsoon when you voted gamma? like did you switch off of varsoon because you weren't sure about wanting to lynch him anymore and decided gamma was a good place to vote instead? or because you think gamma is scummier/better lynch for whatever reason but you still think varsoon is a good lynch?

because if it's teh former than yes, i agree that your gamma vote indicates that you were growing uncomfortable about varsoon, but if it's the latter than i don't know how the gamma vote is relevant to your caution or lack thereof wrt a varsoon lynch really. i was viewing it as the latter, since your gamma vote doesn't seem to have much to do with varsoon in how you presented it, which is why i'm not following why the gamma vote is a response to me saying that you seem kinda gung-ho about lynching someone you think might be lynchbait

maybe i'm just being nitpicky but i really don't see how voting gamma necessarily shows that you're feeling cautious about varsoon

You can't have both of these... I moved from voting varsoon to voting gamma g. I'm feeling v good about gamma g flipping scum and not so good about varsoon doing the same. But yes, I see how they might be partners

i guess maybe this is my answer

==

@skitter, @shoshin, @sircakez, @anyone, are you noticing this? Is it just in my head? He keeps bringing me up without doing anything about me or my play
I'm townreading most everything else from him but this is weirding me out

yes, i have, and you have admitted that you've been absent so like ... he does have a point in pointing it out; i also do agree that he hasn't done much about the fact tho

why are you townreading him?

[Irrelephant11]

I think that is indeed your answer
I'm clearly not the only one with low activity (at least I thought) so idk why he feels the need to say "what's the elephant doing", especially on occasions where he himself is doing very little
I'm townreading him because of a carefree tone, mostly, like the way he lampshades his own disinterest in playing hard. plus a little sheeping shoshin about his early play being towny

[skitter30]

i guess another thing i'm a little bit concerned about is that a lot of your reads are defaulting to sheeping shoshin

[Irrelephant11]

I think that's an unfair representation
Name three players I am sheeping Shoshin on

[skitter30]

Prettyy much ready to locktown Shoshin & RC (and by extension probably creature, I guess?)
At least till D2.

why is everyone townreading me

because Shoshin is and I don't care to do elsewise

VOTE: Varsoon for a variety of pretty good reasons that have already been said, even though the skill of this playerlist makes me feel like this is too obvious. Not sure where else to turn rn, though, so.

doesn't explicitly name shoshin but you reference voting him for 'a variety of pretty good reasons that have already been said', and shoshin was a prominent player therein

Really? I kind of understand the ~vibes~ thing but that's also kind of a parrot of Shoshin from earlygame and also the above skitter post is pretty towny

I continue to feel overgamed and am having trouble remembering/understanding the case on varsoon. His frustration is seeming more genuine over time. I'll wait for your meta read on him before sheeping you again

I'm townreading him because of a carefree tone, mostly, like the way he lampshades his own disinterest in playing hard. plus a little sheeping shoshin about his early play being towny

[Irrelephant11]

Okay, so RC (who is gone, and I guess I'm sorry I didn't say that I will also be starting my read over on the slot, same as you)
Varsoon (who I am currently *not* sheeping shoshin on)
and Creature (who I agree shoshin had a couple good points on that affect my read)

The "parrot of Shoshin" was me accusing RC of parroting Shoshin about you, not me saying that I am parroting her about you.

I think you're overfocused on me right now. If I were more paranoid I would accuse you of intentionally going out of your way to find reasons to drop your townread of me

[SirCakez]

I don't think Creature mentioning you means anything Irrel.
That said I've seen scum Creature play exactly like this before and I don't think his "carefree" vibes mean much.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Creature

Do Something.

[Varsoon]

Okay, tomorrow I do stuff

Been almost 24 hours now.

[xRECKONERx]

hi i am still at work and got 3 hours of sleep last night then will be at work for 13 hours again tomorrow so more content/thoughts coming !~soon~!