A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Shoshin]

Didn't Creature say that Mastina is scum, though?

[Nero Cain]

Mastina is hard town reading Nico, you think she's just wrong?

[jjh927]

What's the difference between your towngame and scumgame?

Excuse me for a bit of self-meta


It is far more mental effort for me to play scum than it is for me to play town. I can almost always find the time for a few posts here and there in a towngame and am basically checking the thread all the time I am awake. My modern scumgame is best (and tbh, only) characterised by this game linked here, and while I have made the excuse that I could have done better but got super busy with other shit, I honestly don't know and haven't done better. Naturally, that is the game I was caught by NSG and lynched day 1. My other scumgames (in reverse order) include replacing into a widely scumread slot and lurking out then getting lynched, lurking out but making it to endgame and mechanically "townclearing" myself with mechanics town were not privy to nor expecting, and one where I got lynched day 1.

Just as a comparison, I do get ran up as a lynch wagon reasonably often when playing with people who have not played with me before when I am town. HOWEVER, in such a scenario I still don't tend to be lynched. I think I've been mislynched as town twice- once when I replaced into an unclaimed miller slot on day 3 in a shitshow of a game, and once on the (pretty much only) time I lurked out as town. One takeaway from this is that I have been lynched more times as scum than I have as town.

[jjh927]

Mastina is hard town reading Nico, you think she's just wrong?

That I do

But I'll reexamine her on her own BoP if it's confirmed I'm right

[jjh927]

I guess I'm kinda against quantifying everything I'm using to place NR here because it would involve going deep into and explaining the more psychological side of my playstyle

[northsidegal]

jjh is basically never scum here and i feel fairly confident in saying that

[mastina]

So why are we lynching mastina other than “rebelling”?

She didn't want to duel Varsoon.

I BEG YOUR FUCKING PARDON.

I didn't want to duel Varsoon?

You should probably just gladiate me, given ~48 hours til deadline and me being at L-1 Gladiate wise, mastina.

I'll do it if all the players on the wagon give confirmation they are on it (have they? I don't think so), and if it is hammered, but otherwise, deadline's no concern; my ability adds time to it, you'll recall.

I'd still prefer to use it on V given the choice

.

HURT: NicoRobin, Jingle, Aristophanes

Pretty sure you already know mine!
HURT: Firebringer, Varsoon, Lady Angel
HURT WITH A BLADE: Invisibility.

I think it's concerning that Mastina wasn't online anywhere near to my original deadline

Frankly I thought I made my opinion clear on the matter but then again I thought I posted yesterday when I just got prodded so who knows maybe I didn't.

Then to reiterate-or-state-for-the-first time: I honestly don't give a fuck about your power, and don't see a reason why I should.

I feel you using it would be anti-town. This, I know for a 100% fact I already stated.
I feel like your threat to use it is an actual, legitimate case of holding the game hostage, the very thing people are wrongly accusing me of doing even though my usage of my power is the furthest thing from it. This, I also know I have stated for sure.
But I see no reason I should care about you using it beyond feeling it's a mistake.

Keep in mind I wasn't the one who came up with the idea of gladiating every day--that was you.
So I don't care about using it every day (I feel like it's the most optimal strategy, but I don't care for it to the point where I'll go out of my way to advocate for it); I would be fine with a lynch done the traditional way--it was

your

idea to use it every day, and you were the one who first pointed out why it was mathematically optimal for us to use it every day instead of a traditional lynch.

The question then wouldn't be why would I care so much about my gladiate to go out of my way to use it before you used your ability.
The question would be why you wouldn't care about my gladiate enough that you'd instead use your ability.

I still don't understand your logic for that.

Titus/Varsoon: Titus was solidly in her scumgame, and Varsoon has done no differently. The utter lack of content and all-around lack of drive along with the mudslinging, the hiding in the players-not-doing-anything crowd, it's a read I want to explain more but suffice to say, he is not town.

Btw.

For the people who said *I* was holding the game hostage.

This

is what a REAL "holding the game hostage" looks like:

I am going to be imposing a new timer on this game
In (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00) I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today
The only way to thwart my evil plan is for her to gladiate before that time

He thinks I'd be scumclaiming by using my ability

No, not using your ability.

Doing the very thing the game is accusing ME of doing, with said ability.

Now I happen to think you're still town in spite of that.

But I fully understand where Jingle's coming from here.

Mastina could literally speed this game up but she doesn't care to do so.

Not so.
I absolutely refuse to, on the basis of speeding the game up is incredibly anti-town to do. Yes, dragging things out is also anti-town, I am fully aware of that. But speeding the game up artificially is, and shall ALWAYS be, the worse of the two evils. I would prefer a happy medium but if forced to choose between the lesser of the two, I'll choose the one which gives us the greater amount of time, content, and information to make a more informed decision.

And anybody who thinks otherwise is an absolute moron, because that is just self-evidently the right call to make.

How does mastina hipshooting her gladiates solve thread apathy?
By making people take stances upon which they can be read and interact with each other? Fuck that shit. The problem isn't with mastina. The problem is with the complete lack of anything being done in the thread.

Pretty much.

People think that me hipshooting would make people be forced to take stances?
IN WHAT WORLD DOES THAT LOGIC WORK.
Because that is literally the fucking opposite of what would happen.
By hipshooting, I would be

preventing

people from being forced to take stances. When the only choices are, "Lynch mastina, lynch her innocent, or no lynch", there's no stance to be had. There's no choice to be had. So nobody is held accountable for what they do.
When the choices are, "gladiate this person, gladiate that person, gladiate third third person, don't gladiate at all and lynch this person, don't gladiate at all and lynch that person, don't gladiate at all and lynch this third person", and so on and so forth? You know, like in a normal mafia game?

Suddenly, the stances people hold become something they can and SHOULD be held accountable for.

How do you find scum in a game of mafia?

but I've been pushing my reads and giving my opinions on the game. I'm not the problem.

No argument there.

But you're not who I'm talking about.

Mastina needs to start pressuring ppl.

And why do you think it needs to be me?

Why can't THE TOWN pressure people?

Especially since I have stated multiple times that even if I really don't like it I'll use it on the player THE TOWN dictates?

Answer me that.

Why does it need to be me?

When we had no problem with it being the town on D1.
And when we had no problem with it being the town on D2.
Why, suddenly, on D3, is there the attitude that "the town is helpless here"? Which wasn't the case the prior two days?

^Literally the problem with JJ's role. Now we not only have people not voting because they can't be bothered to play, we also have people not voting because he's threatening to take their voice away from them.

THIS is what removing accountability via your role looks like, and is what I was getting at when I unvoted.

When I said there was a flaw in jjh's strategy, and it's called "unvote", this is what I was getting at. The flaw is that, by him literally telling people that they should be unvoting. He is making it easy for everyone to do exactly that, and thus, not be held accountable for their stances/votes, because they had good reason to not vote.

I want flips that we decide.

Kuroi was a flip we decided.
You were a flip we decided.
Why's this so hard to comprehend?

Mastina want to gladiate me?

Considering you're a townread?

Why no. No, I don't want to gladiate you.

If you were the lead wagon, I

would

, but I wouldn't be happy when doing it because it'd not be what I WANTED to do.

what does ari scumplay look like

Not like this.
The lazy-man's version is "he posts, he's town; he doesn't, he's scum", but obviously, not that simple; there's nuances to it.

like I'm a pretty firm believer in Mastina should be doing more than relying on the town to do shit for her.

Oh you mean like the scumhunting I've already done?

I mean.

Yeah.

I haven't done as much as I'd prefer, there's more points I'd like on why Varsoon and Firebringer are scum in particular (it has to do more or less with how they are cruising off of the excuse of "roles invalidate us doing anything" even when that is self-evidently not the case), but I've given plenty.

Do need a proper readslist tho.

I made it plenty clear.
Varsoon, NicoRobin, Jingle.
Doesn't matter WHO.
Anyone.
The rules were the same, regardless.
Get majority necessary for a lynch, even if not in votes, but with intent good enough.
If no player held majority and it was under 24 hours from deadline, I would gladiate the largest wagon.
If there were two equally large wagons tied for the lead, then I as the gladiator would use my prerogative in order to choose who got gladiated.

Varsoon used his power about 36 hours or so before day's deadline--12 hours or so before I was going to use my gladiate.

You know WHY he used his power?

Eligible Players
Jingle: (9) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald
Nicorobin: (9) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Varsoon: (9) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin, Vecna
Vecna: (6) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Northsidegal: (5) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men, Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (2) Jingle, Nero Cain
Invisibility: (1) mastina
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

One of my strongest townreads, my read which is stronger a townread than a fucking soulread, or my second-strongest scumread.

GEE I WONDER WHO THE FUCK I WOULD GLADIATE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO BE A TIEBREAKER.

Fuck off with that bullshit, Creature.

You know DAMN fucking good and well I very fucking much would have done so if given the chance.

Did your read of LA or vizzy change at all after the flip? stronger? weaker? how much higher is fire than the others?

Why would my read on them change even remotely?

My reads are all interconnected. My townreads on all townreads increase and decrease with the rise and fall of townreads and scumreads; my scumreads on all scumreads increase and decrease with the rise and fall of townreads and scumreads.

But Varsoon was my second-strongest scumread.

And V flipped scum.

He flipped exactly what I thought he was.

So why would my reads in any way be different, when he was exactly what I thought he was? Of course they're the same because having confirmation of what I already knew doesn't really do anything. Anyone claiming it does would, frankly, raise a red flag for me.

GE 90% town.

NR 70% town.

LA probscum.

Flip the town percentages here and welcome to what my reads are!

[mastina]

did you know theres a subreddit just for walls of text?

Pretty sure mastina is the administrator there.

Nope! Mafiascum is the only site I use these days.
I am in fact known for verbosity in the sites I used prior to mafiascum holding a monopoly over my life, but never positions of power.

I do however know about a thing called formatting. When I put effort into formatting my walls, they're pretty readable, it's just often I forget to do that or I remember and just can't be damned to fix the mistake I know I made.

After all, the two ways I developed my writing were via essays and writing stories, both which require such things. (Funny story tho. When I first began writing, I used smaller paragraphs--but then for some reason I was taught not to use them. WHY for the love of god I don't know, but for that brief period of time I made colossal blocks of SOLID text. And then I re-learned my original way when I realized just how stupid that no-paragraph style was. )

The problem of that strategy is that players get bored too quickly.

Frankly?

If you get bored of the game, get the fuck off of this site; you don't deserve to play in it.

Games are not done just for fun.
They are serious.
They are a commitment.
You see them through to the end.
You're meant to have fun, yes.
But the other 20 players are not there to satiate

your

boredom.
That's your fucking problem, not theirs.

So I have zero sympathies for those bored of the game.

I play the game.

I wasn't the one who invented the strategy which people are "bored" of, but it was in fact the optimal strategy so I am using it. And if you have a problem with that, then that's not on me. Because I am playing to win, so if you're not, well then that's on you.

Subtext, jj. I got rolecopped and gave consent.

I even subtly asked NR not to share her results with the thread, because there is some, if slight, utility in keeping the specifics of my role hidden from the thread at large. If/when I flip that should make more sense. The idea that rolecopping me was unintentional and she meant to rolecop you actually strengthens my townread there.

Yeah uh.
Let's run through the list of redirector roles here.
If it's a redirector--why would a town redirector redirect Nico to Jingle? He's a ridiculously town player, and when a town player uses redirection, they are attempting to redirect negative actions onto scummy players. So, not a town redirection.
If it's a scum redirector, then Nico and Jingle are both town.

If it's a busdriver--why would a town busdriver busdrive Jingle and jjh? Again, the idea of redirection is to redirect actions which were meant to be good for scum to be bad for scum, yet trading Jingle and jjh is just trading two players who are basically filling the exact same mold of town mechanical solving genius. (More or less, anyway.)

If Jingle were a lightning rod, he'd just claim as much.
If jjh were a nexus, he'd just claim as much.
If it were a deflector, again, why would a town deflector deflect from one town player onto another town player?
Why would a scum deflector deflect on town, or if choosing to do so, deflect from one town to an incredibly similar town?

I'm probably missing some redirection roles here (in fact I know I am), but no matter how you slice it, this is pretty definitive evidence suggesting there's at least two town but probably three town in Nico/jjh/Jingle.

[mastina]

Btw may get some more girlfriend time and the moment that comes--I'm gone from here because frankly if you think I care about an online mafia game more than I care about my love life, I have news for you.

here is the speed I would like this game to go:

here is mastina speed:

I do not think your argument sends the message you're intending it to.
The first image is entirely meh. I am arguably more a cat person than a dog person given we own two cats to the one dog and have owned double the number of cats than dogs over my lifetime (rest in peace, my dearies), but that image just...kinda falls flat for me. It's a cat, okay. But it's a cat poorly edited into a background. It's based around some shitty meme no doubt, one which I am entirely unfamiliar with.

It is altogether something that I find utterly uninteresting.

The second image on the other hand is just d'awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. It's

adorable

. It's probably stage, yes, but it's also not 'shopped. It's a video, one which is self-evidently a real thing which happened. Not without help, of course, because I doubt that happens without humans setting it up, but it still is real. It has an actual connection, and it's cute. It's something that is just more real, and more heartwarming, bringing a smile to my face.

So I'll gladly accept the latter as being me, and you do you and be the first but that's just not my taste, thankyouverymuch, and it never will be.

VOTE: Creature
I seem to remember that when Creature does not post, he is mafia. He is not posting. Thus, I believe this is a good vote

Glad to see you kept the spirit of Kuroi alive when inheriting his slot.

I have no idea why she announced again today that I visited her, did not see much town logic in it, but whatever.

My reasoning was because you needed to know you succeeded. Yesterday, because RC had a delay in telling me, and I had a further delay in telling you, it was almost disastrous, because we were going down a wrong train of thinking, thinking that you had failed, when you hadn't.

If I didn't claim, wouldn't you be wondering why I wasn't mentioning it? Wouldn't you think to ask RC, and if he confirmed, wonder if your action failed?

To be clear, I didn't replace anyone.

I signed up for the game originally and got a role PM back when the game started. My role was delayed entrance townie, because it fit with my character as myself from Labyrinth Mafia where my reads were ignored for most of the game. RC gave me a PM so that I could make notes while the game went on, and I did that for the first 10 pages or so, but not being in the game really killed my motivation to keep up, so I'm reading through now.

Btw, I can confirm--at some point I coulda SWORN I saw a list which had Shoshin as one of the players in the game. So I know that Shoshin's not lying here. Shoshin WAS a player at some point, just removed, and I buy the roleclaim here entirely.

The scumteam of Labyrinth Mafia quake in fear, as Shoshin has entered the game.

I love having myself a free extra town member.

[mastina]

Cool this game is bastard

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllll......

15) This setup is bastard* (not really).

Setup Information:

1)

The setup consists of 5 scum, 16 town, and 2 players who can be town, mafia, or third party.

2) Whether the setup is bastard or not, there will not be any mechanics that involve lying to players outside of standard fare (ninjas, godfathers).

Subject: Anything uPick (22)

15) This setup is bastard* (not really).

Setup Information:

1) The setup is confirmed as having faction numbers minus the final player. The final player's alignment may be {Town, Scum, 3P}. Traitors and similar count as scum.
3) From the day the game fills you have 2 days to send in a pick. Failure to do so and I will pick for you.
4) The game will be bastard* (not really) and role madness.

Noting that I received 2 complaints about a past role that deleted Ellibereth/Beeboy's post history. I don't intend to make a bastard game and I don't like bastard roles and I don't lie to players, but I'm covering my bases here.

What's the inverse mechanic to deleting a player from the game?

Why, adding them, of course.

[mastina]

mastina's flavor isn't Ginngie
VOTE: mastina

Rot in hell you fakeclaiming bastard because it absolutely is.

I was a fucking prein for this game.
You know what made me prein for the game?

I will be running another large theme uPick when Labyrinth ends!

Features include:

1) You get to pick your identitty!
2) There will be flavour!
3) Exciting role madness that remains dayplay driven with approximately 50/50 balance.

Features not included

1)

Ginngie

faking guilties on town.

2) NicoRobin on vig killing 2/4 of the scumteam.

Pre -ins:
Mastina
Gamma Emerald
NicoRobin
Innocent Children

and more when I start getting PMs back

That line.

That line about Ginngie not faking guilties on town, and Nico not vig killing half the scumteam.

Thus.
Why my picks were EXCLUSIVELY those two.

And you know what I did?

I sent no less than TWO PMs to RC, I even fucking pinged him on skype, too.
Asking.
"Hey you got my picks, right?"
"You got that I submitted Ginngie, right?"
And he told me he did in fact get my pick of Ginngie.

I am Ginngie, because trolling RC by being Ginngie was literally the only fucking reason I signed up for this game.

[mastina]

(To be honest, I was actually surprised I got Ginngie. I thought he'd make me NicoRobin, but nope! I got my first submitted pick, because I specified Ginngie as my first and Nico as my second and made DAMN sure not to submit a third because I knew if I gave RC an out he'd take it and I wasn't gonna give him that.)

[Firebringer]

replace me

not staying in this garbage game anymore.

if any of you are wise you would get on the leave train. because this is stupid

[Firebringer]

this game has some of the worst mechanics i have ever seen in a mafia game.

like next to undertale mafia actually where there was zero scum.

[Jingle]

Kay, creature. What is mastina’s supposed flavor?

[THE MEME MEN]

mastina you know I luv you right

you're bae

now declare a guilty on someone please

<3

YOU KNOW IN YOUR HEART THIS IS WHERE THE MEME FUNS ARE <3 <3 <3

GET YOUR GUILTY ON SOMEONE YOU KNOW IS A GUILTY

AND THE DAY

WILL

GO

ON

RIGHT?

-Head

[mastina]

I wanna see if mastina will change her flavorclaim or argue there's a redirector

Nope!
Because I know my fucking flavor.
I am Ginngie.
You are barking up the absolute worst tree possible because there are ZERO worlds where you win this fucking fight.
Because I can pretty definitively prove that was not only my pick, but also the role I got. The evidence is pretty conclusive and stupendously self-evident. It's right there in your face.

Plus I don't lie about flavor, ever.
I never lie about flavor as town because I never have any reason to tell that sort of lie. There's never been a game where I've seen reason to need to lie about my flavor as town, because simply put I've never had a flavor that I'd want to lie about.

I never lie about flavor as scum because I have EVERY reason to tell the truth about flavor, short of flavor being actually alignment-indicative.
Sure, yeah, if you're running a game where the Crew of Serenity is all the good guys and their enemies are all the bad guys, flavor becomes alignment-indicative (I abandoned ship on that review for good reason ), but in any competently designed game where flavor is alignment-indicative the nontown have safeclaims for flavor. In a game like this one though, role is done separately from flavor.

I don't know when exactly alignments are rolled in a UPick, but the process isn't "Oh hey this player picked exclusively bad people, therefore, they are scum"; it is more along the lines of "Oh this player rolled town/scum, now with that flavor I'm going to design this to give them powers for that alignment" (more or less).

There is never a scenario where I ever lie about my flavor and you fucking know it.

I am Ginngie because that is literally one of the only two roles I would pick.
And good luck trying to fit my role into the other one I'd pick.

[Firebringer]

everytime i see a mastina post i want to blow my brains out.

[Jingle]

Sure, yeah, if you're running a game where the Crew of Serenity is all the good guys and their enemies are all the bad guys, flavor becomes alignment-indicative (I abandoned ship on that review for good reason ), but in any competently designed game where flavor is alignment-indicative the nontown have safeclaims for flavor. In a game like this one though, role is done separately from flavor.

I would’ve won anyway and the sequel isn’t broken by flavor.

[THE MEME MEN]

NOOO FIRE DON'T DO IT WE NEED YOU <3

-rh

[mastina]

I'm guilting his beloved mastina who, if it wasn't her role, would've been lynched by now.

If it weren't for my role, people wouldn't be paying any attention to me at all.

NicoRobin is objectively scum and there is very little that is going to convince me otherwise besides Mastina succesfully gladiating her.

Hint: mastina won't gladiate her

If I can prevent it, damn straight!

I want my scumreads gladiated, not my townreads.

Nico's basically my second-strongest townread second only to Jingle, so she's at the absolute bottom of my gladiate list. If forced to due to majority I would, but that's literally the only scenario I will.

Otherwise no.

I want to see if mastina will change her flavorclaim before revealing what were exactly my results

As if you needed more evidence that Creature was fakeclaiming this pretty explicitly tells you as much.

The sad thing is I don't think he's scum (reason I haven't gladiated him yet) which is why I am so fucking pissed off because scum claiming a guilty on me? No problem. Lynch the scum, or lynch me and then lynch the scum for it. Town claiming a guilty on me? Self-sabotaging waste of a fucking day.

Also girlfriend's home so this is it for now.

[Porkens]

This gladiator strategy is tearing the town apart and the noise it’s making is covering scum. We need a series of quick lunches.

[Porkens]

The first person to explain their top scumread to me in a short, convincing way gets my vote.

Just pageyop it in bold so it’s easy for me to see.

And do it several times.

Or just gin up a wagon and I’ll hammer it 4u

Creature/Martina is a garbage gladiator.

Fire, creature, Nero,

These are lockdown.

[Porkens]

Coalition victory?

[Porkens]

Vote with me! Together we will win the game