A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Shoshin]

I decided to quickly look back and I see lots of "explanation" for my reads and changes:

VOTE: Nero

For suggesting that I should be lynched when I just joined the game and haven't even had a chance to post anything remotely indicative of alignment, plus my entrance itself was strongly town indicative because of RC's specific word choice...

Explanation on voting Nero.

Lynching town is the scum motivation behind suggesting that I'm scum or suggesting that I should be lynched. Maybe Nero is town, but it's a place to start for me while I read through the game.

Gamma's suggestion that I be gladiated because I haven't done anything yet is also terrible. Yes, I haven't done anything. But that doesn't mean I won't.

Further explantaion on voting Nero, as well as analysis on Gamma's behavior.

Creature is town, 99% sure on that.

Jingle is back to null because his reads are really bad and poorly explained.

Explanation on changing read.

Yeah, Jingle's my weakest by far. I really don't like the way he's reading Mastina vs Creature.

Why Aristophanes?

Further explantaion on Jingle.

Like, this idea that I haven't been explaining anything is actually just wrong.

[Shoshin]

Nero's entire approach to sorting me feels fake and incredibly superficial. I don't get the sense that he's actually interested in figuring out my alignment here, and that is a massive scum-tell in my experience.

[Shoshin]

You're positive Mastina is town? Why?

Can you also explain why Mastina is town, jjh?

I'm also a little worried that these are the things scum say we they know their scumbuddy is getting misread.

Are you town, Invis? If you're replacing out, at least do us one last favor and tell us your partners if you're scum?

Also thought this was p scummy.

I do like these reasons for being susp of Shoshin btw.

What's scummy about any of this?

Also, in terms of Invis, keep in mind that I had just finished playing a game with Invis where he, as town who knew the player at L-1 was town because he was INFORMED of that fact at the start of the game, quick hammered that townie. Now, think about that. If Invis is willing to turn on his town team like that, then why wouldn't I try getting him to turn on his scumteam?

[Vecna]

You're positive Mastina is town? Why?

Can you also explain why Mastina is town, jjh?

I'm also a little worried that these are the things scum say we they know their scumbuddy is getting misread.

Are you town, Invis? If you're replacing out, at least do us one last favor and tell us your partners if you're scum?

Also thought this was p scummy.

I do like these reasons for being susp of Shoshin btw.

What's scummy about any of this?

Also, in terms of Invis, keep in mind that I had just finished playing a game with Invis where he, as town who knew the player at L-1 was town because he was INFORMED of that fact at the start of the game, quick hammered that townie. Now, think about that. If Invis is willing to turn on his town team like that, then why wouldn't I try getting him to turn on his scumteam?

Well, for instance because it would be illiciting a bannable offense, if that was your real goal?

Regardless, I didnt state that I agreed those things are scummy. I think that it likely shows that Nero actually tries to look into your reasoning for doing stuff. It hints at an analysis level deeper than just trying to look at superficial stuff others will agree with you looks scummy. He tries to find ways in which a scum shoshin is trying to gather towncred.

[Shoshin]

He tries to find ways in which a scum shoshin is trying to gather towncred.

That sounds like how scum think.

Town thought process = is this person town or scum?

Scum thought process = how can I find ways to make this townie look like scum?

I feel like Nero's doing the latter. How are you seeing the former?

[Vecna]

town thought process should be; is this person thinking as a town person or as a scum person trying to look good.

my point is that his thought process actually seemed to follow towb thought patterns, since it was slightly beyond superficial how does it look

[Shoshin]

town thought process should be; is this person thinking as a town person or as a scum person trying to look good.

my point is that his thought process actually seemed to follow towb thought patterns, since it was slightly beyond superficial how does it look

That seems like an unnecessarily convoluted distinction with no actual difference.

Consider: "Shoshin is trying to look good, which looks bad" vs "Shoshin looks bad." The former ascribes an intent that has no evidentiary basis and then uses that to argue the player looks bad; the latter simply calls the play what it is. In general, I associate the former with scum play and the latter with town.

[Shoshin]

I think Nero's paranoia about my questions to jjh is understandable, as an emotional response, but that doesn't make them legit reasons to suspect me. Vecna's response looks bad, trying to stoke paranoia about me, and his follow-up feels like he's at a loss to explain what he was thinking in 6847.

[profii]

So can someone help me with this please

Mastina claimed loyal gladiator and Chickadee flipped town giving the claim ~some credence

There have been 3 gladiator events (inc me) so those dudes are presumed Town

There appears to be a loophole where Mastina can gladiate and we no lynch to effectively cop people

The Gladiate targets seem to be decided by committee and I assume Mastina is happy to be leashed in that way?


So there seem to be 2 major questions I’ve missed

- why aren’t we just working our way round everyone to follow the cop? Mastina is loyal not weak so what’s the penalty? Does the gladiate lynch end the day? Is that the factor?


- why was (is?) there a wagon on Mastina - if she is clearing people and working with town, why are people doubting the loyal factor? I was going to argue that sooner or later Mastina should hit scum by say the 5th go but with the democratic factor it’s not on Mastina anyway



I’m assuming I’ve made a mistake in there because I don’t understand why we can’t play follow cop ?

[Aristophanes]

@Profii,
Tl;dr is "because we lynched her"

I had a long flavour writeup for this but have chosen to replace it with the following disclaimer:
If you think I was incompetent enough to write a town role that would have ruined the game in the way that this one has I'm not sure why you would /in to one of my games.

Mastina has been lynched! She was

Ginngie, Scum Claimer of Guilties

.

Spoiler: Mastina

TORANAGA IS SCUM RIGHT GUYS??!?!?!?

Welcome, Mastina! You are Ginngie, Scum Claimer of Guilties. You are a Hated Disloyal Gladiator.



Pls fucking no (Hated): You are hated and outside of LyLo/MyLo situations will require one less vote to lynch.
I HAVE A GUILTY (Disloyal Gladiator): You may claim a guilty on any townie and will be gladiated with them. You may not claim a guilty on anyone mafia-aligned, your action will fail if you do so.

You win when the Town have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Night has begun and will end at 9:00 PM on the 26th.

[Nero Cain]

She'd gladiate and we'd get 48 hours to lynch or no lynch. The democratic/leash system was something her and maybe Jingle wanted to do. Alot of ppl were fed up with her waiting WEEKS to use her role. She's also flipped scum so...

[profii]

@Profii,
Tl;dr is "because we lynched her"

I had a long flavour writeup for this but have chosen to replace it with the following disclaimer:
If you think I was incompetent enough to write a town role that would have ruined the game in the way that this one has I'm not sure why you would /in to one of my games.

Mastina has been lynched! She was

Ginngie, Scum Claimer of Guilties

.

Spoiler: Mastina

TORANAGA IS SCUM RIGHT GUYS??!?!?!?

Welcome, Mastina! You are Ginngie, Scum Claimer of Guilties. You are a Hated Disloyal Gladiator.



Pls fucking no (Hated): You are hated and outside of LyLo/MyLo situations will require one less vote to lynch.
I HAVE A GUILTY (Disloyal Gladiator): You may claim a guilty on any townie and will be gladiated with them. You may not claim a guilty on anyone mafia-aligned, your action will fail if you do so.

You win when the Town have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Night has begun and will end at 9:00 PM on the 26th.

Lol I was looking at the OP for flips :@

[profii]

so I’m like a full on IC now haha

[Nero Cain]

yes

[Creature]

The Gladiate targets seem to be decided by committee and I assume Mastina is happy to be leashed in that way?

Not really.

mastina actively refused to gladiate players like NicoRobin.

[Aristophanes]

The Gladiate targets seem to be decided by committee and I assume Mastina is happy to be leashed in that way?

Not really.

mastina actively refused to gladiate players like NicoRobin.

Which means our not lynching her in a mechanical 1v1 is just...like wtf are we actually doing here? XD

[Lady Angel]

Waiting for more people to vote her.

[Nero Cain]

I'd like to hear from Profi and im still kinda doing things. Why the rush the end day?

[Aristophanes]

Just realized I'm part of the problem
VOTE: Nico

[profii]

The Gladiate targets seem to be decided by committee and I assume Mastina is happy to be leashed in that way?

Not really.

mastina actively refused to gladiate players like NicoRobin.

Sounds straightforward enough


What’s the argument for not speedlynching Nico then?

[Aristophanes]

I'd like to hear from Profi and im still kinda doing things. Why the rush the end day?

Because this game is painful?
Iunno

[Vecna]

I think Nero's paranoia about my questions to jjh is understandable, as an emotional response, but that doesn't make them legit reasons to suspect me. Vecna's response looks bad, trying to stoke paranoia about me, and his follow-up feels like he's at a loss to explain what he was thinking in 6847.

Im not trying to stoke anything about you. I stated I think Nero's logic there made him look slightly better. If you dont understand my reasoning, tough luck. Its my reasoning.

[Jingle]

The democratic/leash system was something her and maybe Jingle wanted to do.

FWIW, I disagreed with the let's get a wagon to hammer territory strategy, I just knew I was never going to win that fight with mastina.

The correct play would have been to fire a gladiate in her top scumread among the top three wagons as soon as the day started to stall.

[Jingle]

mastina actively refused to gladiate players like NicoRobin.

mastina actively refused to lynch anyone who didn't get put to L-1.

She would have gladiated NR when NR was gladiate hammered or we would have lynched her (her being mastina).

There was a lot of pushback to a NR gladiate (including from me).

[Nero Cain]

Is there some reason you think I can't weigh behaviors over roles unless I explain every single piece of behavioral analysis that I engage in?

no but sharing your thoughts with the class seems like a more pro-town thing than sitting there with a bunch of unexplained reads. There's certianly scum motivation in NOT explaining a read so I'm not sure why you are up in arms over me pointing out that you have alot of unexplained reads and read changes.

since large numbers of townies don't explain reads and many don't even explain reads when directly asked to explain.

this is a true statement and probably why there is so much distrust and toxicity in games. I don't see any pro-towns reasons for NOT explaining your reads and switches and it seems just like meta play. I think if everyone were more open and honest this site would maybe not suck as much. /end rant

Like, this idea that I haven't been explaining anything is actually just wrong.

that's not what I said though.

and like

Yes, that's true.

So you've admitted to having a bunch of unexplained reads. Of course, you'll say "I'm town ad nasuem but I don't think there's anything wrong with me wanting explanations and/or finding unexplained shit scummy.

Also, in terms of Invis, keep in mind that I had just finished playing a game with Invis where he, as town who knew the player at L-1 was town because he was INFORMED of that fact at the start of the game, quick hammered that townie. Now, think about that. If Invis is willing to turn on his town team like that, then why wouldn't I try getting him to turn on his scumteam?

This is weak and just plain silly.