Open 741: Red Flag [Endgame]

[northsidegal]

Votecount 1.14

AnonymousGhost (2):

Aster 297, Gamma Emerald 311

Firebringer (1):

Clemency 394

Springtrap (2):

Firebringer 442, pinturicchio 776

Blackjacks (3):

Keyser Söze 635, Volxen 709, ceejayvinoya 710

ceejayvinoya (1):

Nibbui 807

Aster (1):

AnonymousGhost 867

Keyser Söze (2):

RadiantCowbells 887, Blackjacks 893

Not voting (1):

Springtrap 820

With 13 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-12-09 14:42:59).

[AnonymousGhost]

@Ceejay

- why do you scum read BlackJack?

[ceejayvinoya]

I... don't. At least not anymore. Back here I guess.

VOTE: Springtrap

[Springtrap]

Why back to me in particular?

[AnonymousGhost]

I'll think about it, but for now I'll go to sleep. Remind me to point out my reasoning for liking Aster less then Blackjack when I get back.

Hey Spring,

Can you point this out when you have the time? Thanks.

[Nibbui]

I wanna post because maybe I'll only be here 48 hours from now but I haven't much to say...let's see what I can write here...

Nibbui's wonders episode#1

Spoiler:

Recently I have been wondering if I should begin to download some youtube music videos.

Since it seems (I'm not so sure), that Article 13 has been aproved in EU, maybe some musics can kinda vanish since I like some not-so-popular bands.

That thing kinda seems like a mess by the way, it's not very specific so it can lead to some serious abuse, and I wonder if it's alright for the Europe Union to decide for the european countries such a thing. If the europeans and each country democraticaly-elected government implemented it, well that's one thing. But the European Union decide it?

Really?

and they still wonder why some countries are getting mad and threatening to leave. If it's right or wrong aside, that's something up to the countries to decide in my opinion, not up to a economic union/block to enforce it.

I dunno if Spring has potential to flip scum, it seems kinda like a coin flip. I haven't changed my opinion on Ceejay that much as well.

[Clemency]

article 13 gets abolished in 5 weeks max, calling it

[Clemency]

legit companies like google are just gonna pull out from europe and the union will be begging to get them back

[Springtrap]

I'll think about it, but for now I'll go to sleep. Remind me to point out my reasoning for liking Aster less then Blackjack when I get back.

Hey Spring,

Can you point this out when you have the time? Thanks.

Thanks for reminding me, Anonymous.

As per Nibbui's request, here is my list of reads on some players.

---

Blackjacks

"Lurker" captivates most of what can be said about them. They haven't posted a grain of content until I accused THE MEME MEN, after which they haven't posted a grain of content that was not related to THE MEME MEN. This makes me suspicious because I think THE MEME MEN is scum, but I probably shouldn't start association hunting this until scumflips happen. At least some of his questions (300 & 307) raised valid points.

This particular post is an eyesore:

People who shitpost in Mafia games are the scum of the earth, which makes them Literally mafia. I wanted to make sure everyone understood my Stance on the issue.

... says the shitposter. Not sure why, but for some reason I interpret this as "I have no intention to ever start contributing to this game."

Most unfortunately lurking isn't alignment indicative, which makes it hard for me to establish any proper read on them.

---

Gamma Emerald

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Gamma Emerald's meta. I won't comment on his meta, but unlike what some people claim, he doesn't seem very high effort or gamesolvey to me in this game.

His biggest contribution consisted of his RQS. After his RQS was handled, his contributions mostly consisted of (1) answering questions, and (2) asking others to explain something. Both of them are fairly safe methods of active lurking. Even the posts that others call LAMISTy such as 52 could be interpreted as trying to make others do the thinkwork rather than Gamma himself.

His active lurking while dancing around "my meta has changed" and calling it a town meta (323) does draw my attention as potentially scummy.

---

Keyser Söze

Reading through Keyser Söze's ISO, I get the impression that he's somewhere inbetween an active lurker and an active player. His posts contain a fair amount of noise. The extent of it that isn't noise is divided into questions and short opinions. It seems he suddenly had a bump of productivity on the current page and was more lurky if you look at his ISO before post 319.

The questions he does ask do often seem to be relevant and often make me wonder about the answer to it as well. To that extent he's helpful.

So far Keyser Söze has given me no concrete reasons to think he's town nor reasons to believe he's scum. I'm writing him as "neutral".

---

Pinturicchio

The first player so far who's not a lurker. I don't agree with most of his reads because they seem to be based on vague or unverifiable things such as feel, but his reads do not feel like they're scum-motivated.

There is one read that looks curious to me though: the part where he scumread Blackjacks based on "putting effort in RVS" (185) and then hypothesized that Blackjacks wrote their RVS post during pregame. For starters I think that "effort in RVS = scum" is a load of hogwash, but took interest in the discussion anyway to (1) see how much pinturicchio was willing to bend circumstances in his favour, (2) see whether Blackjacks would lie to get out of the situation.

Blackjacks states (199) that they wrote the post after THE MEME MEN voted them, and I think that their statement is most likely true. Small honesty town bonus to Blackjacks.

This statement from Blackjacks ought to aid pinturicchio's case: his main scumtell was "effort in RVS = scum" and the dispute was about whether Blackjack's post was written before or after they learned their role. We had just confirmed that Blackjacks' post was written after they learned their role.

Case closed? Nope.

Even if I still believed that the message was prepared beforehand, I still would be inclined to believe that ruru is town here

This is strange. First, if I still believed that the message was prepared beforehand, then I would definitely scumread Blackjacks under lynch all liars. Maybe he meant "Even if Blackjacks had instead told me the message was prepared beforehand, I would be inclined to believe ruru is town here"?

Anyway, whether Blackjacks wrote their post during pregame or during day one ought to be beyond the point. What matters is whether it was written before or after Blackjacks received their role. Pinturicchio's post makes me think that he forgot what his case was actually about, thought that he was now working with "writing posts during pregame = scummy", and then decided to drop the case.

I am somewhat wary of pinturicchio because of this.

This post here and their other ones similar to it feel different then when Blackjack also did the same.

It just feels... Very messy and just mentioning "Lurker" a large amount of the time for nearly all of them. When Aster did this, it felt more like instead of townreading or scumreading, it was a critique in general. Which I think would be easier to do as either alignment, instead of just town.

It also seems weird to go through 1 "Non-Lurker" in that they completely disagreed with most of what they've done. Again, more critique then a read. Just "wary".

[Springtrap]

article 13 gets abolished in 5 weeks max, calling it

legit companies like google are just gonna pull out from europe and the union will be begging to get them back

I think I saw film theory cover this thing? The copyright laws in Europe, right?

[Clemency]

aye

[Blackjacks]

Springtrap, what other reads do you have?

[Keyser Söze]

Will tackle this game late tonight or Friday night x

[Blackjacks]

springtrap seems town

-r

So when I told ruru I was townreading springtrap, it was because them townreading us over aster seemed like a complex read that was more likely to come from town.

Except I’m reading the thread chronologically now and I realize that AG was the first to explain her scumread on aster, which makes springtrap’s read less novel and towny and more going with the flow.

[Blackjacks]

Town:

Clemency, AG, Ceejay, aster, nibbui, RC
Pretty sure ruru was townreading pintu as well

/ofrhz

[AnonymousGhost]

@BlackJac

- explain town clemency & pintu read?

[Blackjacks]

Tmi

[Firebringer]

give me all the towncred when springtrap flips scum.
ty

[northsidegal]

Prodding Volxen. Pinturicchio is due for a prod but is V/LA, and as such will not receive one.

[Aster]

@Aster have you played with RC before?

Nope. Actually, I haven't played with anyone here. (At best I've modded one game played by Gamma Emerald and spectated part of another game of his.)

@Aster - So between then (Page 12) and now (Page 34), is your case on my predecessor still valid? I haven't looked at the mod's ISO for the VCs between then and now to see if you moved your vote between then and now or if you're vote sitting from page 12.

Yes, it is still valid.

I'm ignoring my predecessor's posts - because yay~ that much less to read!!! - but does that pattern you noticed from my predecessor continue after your post in 297? If so, can you point me in the direction of their posts? Thanks.

After THE MEME MEN tried to dodge admitting they hadn't thought their suggestion through, they suddenly fold in post 305 after I accused them of being scum. I think that's a pretty scummy end to the pattern.

@Aster - so besides pointing out RC's chainsaw defense of Volxen in 751 and reaching an FoS on the both of them... did that post get you any closer to sorting out their alignments?

Besides that? No.

(On a side note, may I remark that you sound awfully diminuitive of "pointing out RC's chainsaw defense" as if it is a minor fact?)

While we're on the topic, I would like to revise that pinturicchio's alternative whiteknighting explanation [765] makes sense as well. This would imply that RadiantCowbells' handling of the situation was scummy independent of Volxen's alignment.

[Aster]

Spring's firmly in the camp that the slot will resolve later. Either the majority will lynch this slot off before LyLo or scum might kill it off because it's the weakest link me thinks.

[And Clemency joins the camp as well...]

So... you're saying that mafia might end up killing Spring if Spring is scum, but if Spring is not killed, some forces of nature will compel the town to lynch Spring sometime before LyLo?

Your attitude seems to amount to "I don't care whether Spring is town or scum because town will kill him anyway". You're neither supporting nor opposing the Springwagon, but want to declare you're explicitly apathetic toward it?

I'd personally say that since we only need to lynch two out of four scum, we can affort to ignore and not lynch the unreadable doodlebags while lynching the readable scumbags. I would not say that we can ignore the unreadable doodlebags because we're going to lynch them anyway. That would be a pretty scummy proposition.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Aster have you played with RC before?

Nope. Actually, I haven't played with anyone here. (At best I've modded one game played by Gamma Emerald and spectated part of another game of his.)

Which game did you spectate?

[Aster]

Which game did you spectate?

Open 714. I didn't pay much attention after day 1 though.

[Firebringer]

hey disaster how is it going?

[northsidegal]

-