[Game Over] Open 743 - The Crown of Misery

[Thor665]

Leodanny (L-2)

: Thor665, Persivul, Dunnstral, rb,
Egix96

rb (L-4)

: Leodanny, Something_Smart, DarkLightA

Malakitty (L-5)

: Lamees, Auro

Egix96 (L-6)

: Nako

DarkLightA (L-6)

: bristep123

Malakitty

I do think RB is town -- however, I felt a possible inconsistency in your read on the slot versus your vote, so I called that out. Similar to how I'd question a case on a scumread if I felt it inconsistent, I can also question why someone isn't pushing a townread of mine if it looks potentially inconsistent with their previous sayings and clarify.

What inconsistency did you see from me to provoke this line of questioning?

Encouraging the cop to check someone (or two) is bad, IMO, and they should keep in mind the existence of framers and GFs when deciding who they target.

Welcome to every closed game, and a fair swathe of Open games of Mafia ever made?
I responded with 'Good' not 'Oh yeah, Cop should totally only check one of the two of us'. Bit of a difference.

You know when I voted that? Way before my wagon formed. And I did not jump on that without reason.

I never, at any stage in my posting, claimed otherwise.
So...sure?

He voted rb first according to the VC. So him being on that wagon is just him voting for who he thinks is scummy? How does him voting rb make him scum necessarily?

You claimed that him not pushing for mislynches was townie. I pointed out he is on a quite successful wagon - so unless you know for a fact rb is scum where do you get the justification to claim he isn't successfully pushing for a mislynch?

I dont think you answered my question here.

The rest of your question was "why is he scum".
I've offered my reasoning, which is best summed as "he isn't really scumhunting, so let's flip him".
I stand by that case fully.

[Thor665]

I haven't played with him but if he was scum, he would try to pocket townies instead of war of the walls.

[Auro]

What inconsistency did you see from me to provoke this line of questioning?

Potential*
Your vote then vs the RB read.

[Auro]

Welcome to every closed game, and a fair swathe of Open games of Mafia ever made?
I responded with 'Good' not 'Oh yeah, Cop should totally only check one of the two of us'. Bit of a difference.

Still doesn't change that it looks like encouragement.

[Auro]

How do you know a cop exists? Feels a bit like TMI.

Why do you think scum would out like that???

By mistake? TMI-slips are possible in this game and are prolly easy to make for scum unintentionally; hence derive a good deal of legitimacy.

[Auro]

We're lynching rb. I've seen this happen too much and lost games as town because of it. Not letting it go. My vote is on rb for the entire game until one of us gets lynched.

To be honest, this post pinged me as TWTBAW but I'll keep an eye on Angel.

You should read Newbie 1900 if you get a chance. Most of the reasons she's pinging you - she did the same as town that game.

[Auro]

She was really damn sure Not_Mafia was obvscum very early D1; however the rest of us strong TR'd him. so that post is completely natural and expected from Lamees.

[Auro]

TBH, I checked DVa's games and her scum games felt she were more frustrated and in her town games, she was just having fun.
DVa can definitely be scum here, I'd like to ask Auro and Thor about her though.

I did note at some point that she felt more laid back than my previous games with her. She never has fun when she's getting wagoned by people pissing her off, though, as either alignment. I was kinda making a tonal judgment there compared to my play with scumbuddy!her in 1893, my only game where she was scum.

Her behavior post replacement was pretty bothering, but it was after she asked to replace out so prolly wasn't strategic, as Dunn pointed out.

[DarkLightA]

I like Nako's analysis. Reads as genuine.

[DarkLightA]

Read the game, Newbie 1900.

I did realize I tend to town players who townread me and whose posts I find myself agreeing with (like Ariane in 1900 and Cleric in 1899), so I am vulnerable to pockets.

I had a great case on scum!Volxen in my just-completed Newbie 1900

In my most recent completed game with her, Newbie 1900, I treated her pretty much the same

While it did feel TMI, I don't think it's *as* damning because in Newbie 1900, I was saying that one usually trolly slot was better dealt with investigatives, that led to a TMI push on me.

I did the same thing in Newbie 1900 and voted a non-contributing slot D1.

You should read Newbie 1900 if you get a chance. Most of the reasons she's pinging you - she did the same as town that game.

I feel like we could turn this into a drinking game.

[Malakitty]

Working an 8 hour today. Hopefully will be slow after this call so I can try to read.

Skimmed the last two pages?

Nako what false meta read of Lamees did I write? Because I read her as scum in the first game she ever played so it’s not false

[Lamees]

For the last time, you just sheeped radiant cowbells with your votes on multiple players. You had no case on me.

The difference this game is that instead of sheeping you tried to put down a weak case. Saying my posts had no content or something like that. Then trying to tie it to previous game which you keep making wrong statements about. Is your memory failing you lol.

[Lamees]

Your case on me this game is that my posts have no substance and that I am trying to look busy. Not sure how someone can make that call tbh. Too subjective.

[Thor665]

What inconsistency did you see from me to provoke this line of questioning?

Potential*
Your vote then vs the RB read.

So I was voting one scumread, and saw multiple people expressing interest in the wagon - I pushed on that interest and created a solid wagon on Leo instead of switching to rb who had a lot less wagon interest.

No, seriously, describe the inconsistency.

[Malakitty]

Subject: Newbie 1892 | Stuff I found online V | Over

will admit rereading the first few pages.

I don't like Korina's posting. its coming off awk af

You gonna get death tunneled for that comment.

why

mala come vote lcpl with me

lamees come vote lcpl with me

fl come vote lcpl with me

I at page 7 rn. {Korina, Lamee and LCPL} feel werid, but I'm also taking the cop/tracker claim and treating you guys as pocketed town. I like FF's posting.

Just leaving this here. I had read before RC asked me to vote LCLP and I had you and him both in my scum pool

Please don’t try to discredit me like I’m just some noob player and can’t gather my own reads independently

[Lamees]

Dont be insecure. The game is there to be read for whoever is interested and they can form their opinion on what happened. My opinion is that you sheeped. Not trying to discredit you or anything, I mean you said earlier this game about how I won that as scum because town was bad or something like that, that's not only trying to discredit me but an insult to all town players in that game. I didnt comment on that (your opinion) though, you're free to think what you want.

Now back to this game, your case on me is not that good. What do you base your claim on here? My posts have no substance and I seem to be trying to look busy as scum? What is the basis to calling someones posts that. I dont get it. That's just plain scum agenda you're pushing. I can literally call anyones posts trying to look busy and substanceless but why would I?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Malakitty

I'd rather listen to Lamees today

[Malakitty]

How the fuck am I being insecure?

You are using a ducking shit ass one game to do a false read on me. I didn’t sheep RC. I had a lynch pool before RC asked me to lynch lclp. I had a pool of three. Does it matter which of those three to lynch first. Plus RC claimed cop and RC and I played many games together so I was pretty ducking confident he was town so it was me working with a town read.

No the town was aboultse fucking garbage that game. We had one that decided to lie about being a PR and they weren’t. That’s game throwing right there. Instead of listening to confirmed fucking town that had flipped they didn’t even reasses the flips and lynched wrong in lylo. It’s not an insult when it’s true. It’s how people get better.

It’s like my line of field of work. You have to take criticism if you aren’t going to able to take it you aren’t going to get any better. If you don’t show you are trying then have fun trying to either hold a job or have people take you seriously.

[Malakitty]

Lamees I hated when you asked questions about what roles you would pick etc. you didn’t even follow up and it felt like a filler line to me. Then the whole lynch rb but have no solid case felt like a flash black how you tunneled Korina. Now that all of a sudden I call you out I’m being scum read by you which reeks of OMGUS.

Apparently no one can fucking smell the bullshit you’re spewing. Oh wait they are just pocketing you as town because you claimed. Ok that’s cool. I mean you claimed without even needing to do so

[Malakitty]

VOTE: Malakitty

I'd rather listen to Lamees today

Ofc you would.

[Malakitty]

Anyways my lynch and not lynch pool:

Lynch:

Lamees, thor, Dunn, leodanny

I’m pretty confident that the following players are town: something smart, persi, rb & DLA

Unsure: if I had to lynch to less lynch: Egi, Auro

Null: Nako, bristep

[Something_Smart]

Mala, what do you dislike about Leo?

[Malakitty]

With Leo the thing is I just modded a newbie game with him as town.

So the style of posting is every similar to there to here, but here I feel like it’s less focused with questions. The newbie game he did question and try to hunt where as here it’s not so much the case.

Part of me dislikes the leodanny wagon because regardless of his alignment I feel like we might not get a lot of information out of the lynch. He’s still new to forum mafia. He’s still trying to get his footing. To experience players he looks like mislynch bait.

[Auro]

The case on Mala

Looked back at Mala's ISO, and I think after her recent posts and what others have pointed out, there's enough to actually build a small case here.

1. Her treatment of Lamees' slot. She begins by suspecting Lamees in 222, I immediately ask her if she's had previous meta experience with Lamees. She says she lost to scum Lamees once. I point out that Lamees does what she's doing (including the extreme tunnelling) as town. There doesn't seem to be a response to that (apart from "this is pretty bad"), or a honest re-evaluation of Lam's slot. Lam even acknowledges that she was "super noob and doesn't know how town won" in 287. The re-evaluation doesn't even have had to read her as town necessarily -- just substantiate why this meta doesn't match her town meta compared to her scum meta, OR acknowledge that town!Lamees can do this and give us reasons to why she's a good lynch otherwise. With neither of these things, it makes her push suspect.

2. Mild fearmongering on my slot. After she called my meta-defense of Lamees "pretty bad" and implying I'm scum "white-knighting" Lamees, I tell her it's informed by personal history with Lamees, and bring up the relevant game in 699. Her response? She dismisses it as a slightly mis-reppy "meta read" (it's not really -- it's using meta to show why someone *isn't* necessarily scum for something they did), and then says I'm good at implementing my town meta in scum games. Now, what's the purpose of that last sentence? Again, this doesn't look like honest re-evaluation of a stance, just fearmongering.

3. Her townreads. Persivul seems to be townread in general, so that's there. While DVa was pushing Mala, DLA's never mentioned Mala once, so I think that's a safe townread. Something_Smart and rb both seem to townread her on weird reasons, rb in his usual style and also based off a pretty bad "reaction test" (which I'm getting sick of), and Something_Smart complimenting her on "solid play" which I don't really see. I admit none of us have great TRs -- but here, they do look a bit political and a tad bit pocket-y. Her lynch pool apart from Thor has the otherwise-biggest wagon (Leodanny), one tunneled slot (Lamees) who she wants to lynch through the claim, and another OMGUS-y slot (Dunnstral) who she never really commented on before 945. This is not a point that's scum-indicative in itself, but is consistent with Mala being scum.

4. The lurking. I think she's getting into the game now, but posts like 778 rub me the wrong way when they're like, the only posts of the day. Her activity patterns do seem to be more when she's being attacked *shrug*

This is not a solid case by any means, but I think I'm happier with a vote on her than Leodanny. If we're running out of time and have to consolidate, I wouldn't really mind switching to Leodanny and lynching him if necessary, although I still think his flip is meh.

[Auro]

So I was voting one scumread, and saw multiple people expressing interest in the wagon - I pushed on that interest and created a solid wagon on Leo instead of switching to rb who had a lot less wagon interest.

No, seriously, describe the inconsistency.

Me: *Asks question*
Thor: *Answers question*, "Why ask?"
Me: "Potential inconsistency"
Thor: "Where's the inconsistency?"
Me: "Potential*"
Thor: "Seriously, describe the inconsistency"

Is Thor *this* thick usually? The purpose of *asking* questions is to iron out potential inconsistencies and get to know someone's stance clearer. "Why Leo over RB" is a

perfectly

fine question, because Thor did admit RB was iffy although he voted Leo, and now he's had to describe his stance on why Leo. This incessant nitpicks are starting to annoy me. Perhaps he's doing this with the intention of making me back off from asking questions, which I won't, or to start huge wall-wars again which no one's going to read.