Fire on the Mountain [Over]

[Extrapolated Eagle]

alright i'm gonna sleep

i'll work through the thread and share thoughts sometime tomorrow

if you wanna reread in the meantime, that's fien

i will ask for your thoughts when i'm done

[Ankamius]

Sure.

I'm not lynching xtoxm right now, though, nor am I reading your case atm.

@ank read this as soon as you wake up

let's plow through the thread together. lemme know when you have the chance. if you won't be able to somewhat early in the morning, lemme know and i'll do it when i wake up or after work tomorrow or something. I have uncertainties on the alignment of your slot and I wanna work through conftowning you, so when you get the chance i'd like to work through the thread skimming every 20 pages or so and then catching each other up on thought processes and such. this way i can track what you're thinking and we can both develop reads

how does that sound?

yeah that would help me re-engage into the game

ngl I'm really not looking forward to reading through whatever shitshow day 2 was

[Liger_Zero]

VOTE: Xtoxm

More reason to not vote xtoxm.

[NerfedBuJ]

Why.. they're not scum together

[DrDolittle]

I know you said not 100 percent here but what made you lose the townread?

you are right - I forgot about your little case. PoR should be likely town.

[DrDolittle]

I thought we agreed on that xtoxm is town because of the whole grapes interaction (outlined below)...

re; https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10785600

Alisae it feels a bit early for you give up trying to read me altogether?
I understand that grapes are inanimate objects but I am not.
Why the blind faith in xtom?

Cuz now that it's relevant and I'm thinking about it the couple games I've played with him was him-scum me-town... and gameboy advance mafia where he

lead a mislynch

on me...

VOTE: xtoxm

From GBA mafia:

idk about grapes. he's doing all the right things. refusing to claim though.

if he's scum he's good at fake towning.

anyway sorry grapes if you were town but it all points at you.

we have a fair amount circumstantial evidence for fire + knuckles being town. strong evidence for everyone else being town. i'm pretty much a counterclaim to you and town seems kinda OP if you're real.

grapes (4): Firebringer, Knuckles, Davsto,

Xtoxm

[LYNCH!]
Davsto (1) grapes
Not Voting: Vedith, Aj The Epic

With 7 votes, 4 to lynch

I don't know how in your world a hammer vote equates to leading a mislynch.

I don't know how in your world a hammer vote equates to leading a mislynch.

Gonna be honest here I was going from memory and forgot I was a utility lynch (maybe because to this day I still don't really understand why it happened :p)

but after going through your iso there you never really came around to town-reading me (matter of fact you thought I was scum most of the game) until i started viciously flailing about to get lynched as a cop mad close to EG (and even then you ultimately ended up voting me so even there I'm being too forgiving)


So... why exactly do you think you can read me?

i was going from memory too
i did think you looked very townie
lynched you in the end for role reasons
it gives me a baseline of what you are capable of as town
the 3 post thing was also entirely sarcastic if that wasnt obvious

hi jingle

[mcqueen]

holy shit i just realized how many people got replaced. Why did Shoshin, Lycan, and Gamma all get replaced?

Where you at? It seems like you are further behind than me, and I just replaced in a day ago and haven't read day 1 or even most of day 2.

i popped in day 1, got sick part of day 2 and didnt keep up. Havent read early d1/most of d2

[Jingle]

@buj. I get your analogy now. Sorry for calling it crap I just didnt understand it previously, but now I think I agree with it, although not to 100 percent certainty.

I know you said not 100 percent here but what made you lose the townread?

@Jingle - let me get this straight, Ali is an amazing town player, and an amazing scum player but if e goes at it hard e's scum and if e doesn't e's town? Wouldn't such a polar meta make her bad at both alignments?

I love when people try to use disinterest as a town tell but don't accept it when others use it as a scum tell.

E rolled shitty partners and er good friend replaced out of the game. E doesn't think E can win and E isn't having any fun, and the playerlist has changed. I think I'm right in saying that Ali is a player that takes playerlist into account when she joins games, so it makes sense that replacements could affect er mood and it's NAI. In this game there is 0 indication that she's town. You want to tear my scum case apart go right ahead and give it a try. Disagree with me. But don't fool yourself into thinking she has towntold. A bloody nullread is more believable.

You're kinda missing the whole point. Alisae was scum in Stellaris at the same time she was playing this game. At the same time as FA was here, Ali was shooting FA in the other game. At the same time the whole Shoshin drama was happening, Joan of Arc drama was happening in Stellaris. And, through all of this, her motivation and energy here is way way way less than it was there.

Admittedly, it's not a perfect comparison. There's a lot more setup information to go over in that game. She had Junko as a scum PT partner, and they talked a lot. But the difference in motivation is more stark than I would expect given that the difference in playerlist boils down to one friend.


Also, the loltunnel on me when the only thing Ali's seen of me is mod thread and people saying I'm good is >>rand town, but :shrug:

0% interested in an Ali lynch here.

[Jingle]

Here's roughly where I am at:

Town
Dannflor replaced DoubtingThomas
Reiuji Utsuho
Xtoxm *
Karmeleon *
NerfedBuJ
Extrapolated Eagle
Alisae

Null
Prince of Renais replaced PvtUrist
mcqueen
MaxwellPuckett replaced Clemency *
Liger_Zero replaced Gamma Emerald **

Scummy
Jingle replaced Frozen Angel
Vedith
Ankamius replaced Lycanfire *

This looks fake AF.

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Somebody do me a math and tell me how many mislynches we have right now, assuming that we are one horrible horrible towngroup and keeps mislynching every day starting now while magically managing to not lynch any of the doused people.

[NerfedBuJ]

5 at the absolute worst case scenario

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yep.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@Ank

I'm here and I'm reading through the first 20 pages now.

Lemme know when you're done and we'll compare thoughts.

[Ankamius]

alright I'll start reading

[Ankamius]

I hit the selfvote

do I need to continue since the next 10-15 pages are mostly complaining about it?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

uhhhh don't worry about it

I just skimmed those pages ... i think big points to look at are dt/xtoxm reactions to the self-vote and subsequent response wagons

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Spoiler: thought process - warning page size doubles

Page 1:
DDL, buj, and mcqueen both make me feel uncomfortable in how they're voting

Lycan's "vig alisae" comes off as conversational

Alisae maintains a conversational tone across this and the next page that I think tends to come from town

I push Frozen Angel first thing always in every game I'm in ever because I want to sort her first because I know she's a hard lynch - everyone likes her too much :/ Her response is not AI on this page

pvt is null

Page 2:
FA gets more conversational and inquisitive, I'm starting to think more likely to be town? but it's been years since I've played a real game with her. As scum I expect her to be a cobra waiting to strike, setting up her posts with a sort of preparation for a strike back. I guess I could see her posts here coming from either alignment

Alisae maintains a conversational attitude

Page 3:
Alisae says things that are wrong about RVS

Don't like Vedith's prod request. hm.

DT is picking up on what I am as far as Buj I like him for town

Page 4:
Gamma responds to... nothing of all the things they could respond to

DT maintains stream of consciousness that's harder to maintain as scum

Vedith is posting and still hasn't impacted me either way as town or scum

FA is getting mad about MU... seems like overreaction? Easier to overreact to things as scum to get participation points.. hmm.

Page 5/6:
Gamma is still responding to things I don't care about and ignoring things I do

DT is ISOing people - prolly town

-

nuts say gamma clemency pvt town

what? I really don't like this no real good reason to say this i'm pretty null on all of them

FA is maintaining feistiness without discussing game related things.. liking her less

also DT voting me after his comment on gamma/clem/pvt feels wrong

DDL prodging more

gamma makes the first post this game that i think is pretty ok from them

I don't like FA's reaction to my reaction to DT

Vedith looks less scummy but not more townie

Page 7
I like FA less - only seems to really care about reads/posts related to her

DT looks maybe town again?

I go back and forth on this every time I read it:

Frozen Angel's first posts weren't particularly manipulative which is why I changed my vote, if anyone's wondering.

Did anyone else have this reaction to FA's posts?

1. does it matter

2. should he need a reason to change his rvs vote

3. is any of this actually ai even though it looks ai

this my super easy rqs round where all the questions have the same answer!

On one hand, Shoshin's post was bad

On the other... I don't know that I understand reacting as forcefully as he did?


Page 8

Follow-up from Lycan is on par with previous post I can see it coming from town - I like the fact that it results in a vote and a push, two things I like from town

FA is fluffy and avoids scumhunting

I like rei's vote on Alisae

the fact that DT waited for rei and me to both post interest in voting alisae to vote her makes me uncomfortable slightly

I think I like alisae's response to buj also when e calls me town

Page 9

I like Alisae's post on voting/not voting

I like rei

I don't like FA asking for reads when she has none

Page 10/11

I like the vote count by NSG

I like xtoxm's response to grapes, but not his other posts

don't like DT as much as I thought I did

My play on this page got derailed by shoshin, I was really excited for it as well, and I'm really frustrated things turned out like they did.

Page 12-14

Shoshin voted last page but discussing it here makes more sense so:

DT's reaction is NAI

I like xtoxm's reaction

buj pings me again and continues to do so but as he pings me my brain says town I like my brain better here

dt's response to shoshin is something I would do as town or scum. maybe even especially as scum? but also especially as town. It's giving me very strong emotions in both directions

I don't like DT pushing for an actual lynch on shoshin, though, I don't think

not sure i like xtox flipping to DT wagon actually i don't like it at all

I don't like DT's self-vote on the next page :/

Karm is town pinging up until tumbleweed post

Page 15:

Vedith might be town based solely on the fact that Shoshin has defended him pretty hard twice this game, she claims to be known for decent reads, and she flipped town

Page 17:

FA is on the same page as me as far as reads ngo, and I like her a bit more, I think

Page 18/19:

FA response to Shoshin feels like FA response to me when I played town against her scum.....

and herr responses to Ali feel.. kinda wrong.

I think Ali's response to FA ... I don't know. I don't think they're scum together, and of the two, FA is more likely scum.

Shoshin scumread on FA makes me feel better about scumreading FA here

I don't necessarily agree w/ ideas in Ali's 466, but e's taking stances maybe town?

I like Karm's 496

[Extrapolated Eagle]

lemme know when you're caught up and ready, ank

[Ankamius]

I remember something Xtoxm did originally pinged really town but that response indicates otherwise? the way he completed ignored the self-vote thing and then only commented on the policy lynch thing before vanishing again could come from scum that doesn't quite know how to respond to the sudden drama convincingly, the DT vote is... interesting though, DT is a lot scummier than shoshin in this exchange but it looks like the opposite in the moment so him specifically going that direction looks better in hindsight for me

DT's posting towards the beginning of the game is gross in general, but specifically 304 and 315 are pretty bad, plus the blowup afterwards was a level of extreme that looked fake

FA is firmly town from how she joins the Shoshin wagon and her general thoughts on it
alisae's early posting around this time generally fits a town mindset
reiuji's posts on page 9 are reasonably town

[Enter]

Have you played w/ FA before and how much?

[Ankamius]

I played with FA in heroes wanted, she was obvtown day 1

[Ankamius]

yoink

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Have you played w/ FA before and how much?

Oops.

I played with FA in heroes wanted, she was obvtown day 1

Alright, I'll trust you for now on that read.

yoink

Oh, thanks

[Extrapolated Eagle]

DT is a lot scummier than shoshin in this exchange but it looks like the opposite in the moment so him specifically going that direction looks better in hindsight for me

rephrase this, please

[Ankamius]

even without knowing Shoshin is town already, she looks a lot more town to me than DT does

but in the moment where that was current, emotions were high enough that it looked flipped

Xtoxm voting for DT instead of going along with the Shoshin wagon has a much better look in hindsight with that scenario in mind (as a reference, grapes voted the shoshin wagon afterwards with a really sketchy justification)