Mini-Normal 2070 is done

[Nero Cain]

NotAnAxehole(2)-Skellen, NotAnAxehole
John Pierce Gantt(2)-davesaz, Tchill13
themilkcartonkid(1)-Egix96
RadiantCowbells(1)-themilkcartonkid
RuiRui(1)-Vorkuta
davesaz(1)-Inferno390
Skellen(1)-ErzaScarlet


Not voting: RadiantCowbells, chennisden, RuiRui, John Pierce Gantt

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch or no lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2019-04-22 00:00:00)

[Vorkuta]

So RuiRui played it correctly by the manual if I got it right.

Or... there is no miller this game.
And scum!RuiRui played it by the manual.

[John Pierce Gantt]

@JP: That was a throwaway vote to get into the RVS and the game. I had some stuff to do this morning, so I didn’t really have time to think about what was going on in-game and analyze the game state. I saw that there was a miller claim and it threw me a little, but I didn’t want to comment on it and start doing analysis that would push out if RVS until I had gotten a chance to look at everyone’s response to it.

Hmm, this awfully sounds like you were just testing the water.
How would people talking about miller claiming early help you figure out their alignments? Assuming that you intended to hold your analysis for this reason.

[Egix96]

Hi again to RC, Chennis, and Dave, and hey to the rest of you.

Hi guys, I'm a miller

No.
VOTE: RuiRui

I find it interesting that your reaction to the miller claim is a lot different than mine. I presume from your later comment that this is at least a semi-serious vote - is this sort of claim >rand scum in your experience?

[Vorkuta]

Yes, even though we're not even out of RVS, I flat out refuse to buy the miller claim.
My vast

one whole game's worth of

experience leads me to conclude that:
Probability of there being a miller being in the setup (AND Ruirui being the miller and coming clean) << Probability of scum claiming miller

[Inferno390]

Going to say now that the early miller claim bothers me. Does a miller normally claim before a cop finds them?

How does that bother you? The point of claiming is to prevent wasting any investigative actions on the miller. It's literally the recommended play in the wiki article of this role. So RuiRui played it correctly by the manual if I got it right.

I’ve just never been in a game with a miller before, and if I have, they didn’t claim in RVS. So I wasn’t sure what that meant in terms of the claim, response, etc.

[Inferno390]

@JP: That was a throwaway vote to get into the RVS and the game. I had some stuff to do this morning, so I didn’t really have time to think about what was going on in-game and analyze the game state. I saw that there was a miller claim and it threw me a little, but I didn’t want to comment on it and start doing analysis that would push out if RVS until I had gotten a chance to look at everyone’s response to it.

Hmm, this awfully sounds like you were just testing the water.
How would people talking about miller claiming early help you figure out their alignments? Assuming that you intended to hold your analysis for this reason.

I’m confused by this question. How does people talking about ANYTHING early help figure out alignments other than by looking at how they respond? Isn’t that literally how you play this game?
And I actually analyze voting patterns and talking patterns. The miller claim itself is not what I would look at, but how people interacted with each other regarding it and what voting patterns emerged.

[Inferno390]

@Egix: why do you find Vork’s reaction “interesting?”

[Egix96]

Yes, even though we're not even out of RVS, I flat out refuse to buy the miller claim.
My vast

one whole game's worth of

experience leads me to conclude that:
Probability of there being a miller being in the setup (AND Ruirui being the miller and coming clean) << Probability of scum claiming miller

Hmm okay. I think that, in addition, there's always a small chance it could be a meme claim (MU masons anyone?) so I'm not reading too deeply into it for the time being.

@Egix: why do you find Vork’s reaction “interesting?”

I found it strange that he immediately disbelieved it, whereas I didn't. Same as you, I've never played a game that had a Miller in it so I don't really know the best way to approach someone who claims that role.

[NotAnAxehole]

VOTE: ruirui

[davesaz]

Yes it is sop to claim in very first post.
Only real reason to disbelieve in the first reply is when you’re Miller too.
I recently was a miller in a game with 5 millers, no lie.
All 5 claims were true.
But yes scum could claim it. So miller claims should be evaluated by analyzing other posting.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: axehole

Toronto maple losers more like

[NotAnAxehole]

Is there any pro-town reason to claim Miller before day 2? The only reason to claim Miller is to protect a cop no?

[RadiantCowbells]

No

[Tchill13]

Miller claim out the gate is something I haven't seen scum do yet on this site even though there's obvious motivation for it. Not sure how I feel about it but I'm not gonna demand the lynch atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have seen scum do it

But sometimes town roll miller

[Skellen]

So RuiRui played it correctly by the manual if I got it right.

Or... there is no miller this game.
And scum!RuiRui played it by the manual.

True, that's possible. The "manual" also says in order to prevent fakeclaims to get a miller lynched or shot by a Vigilante role. Personally I agree more with dave's approach in #35, but if the former is the consensus here, wouldn't fakeclaiming miller put scum into a dead man walking position for no reason?

You hinted experience in this matter if I got #29 right. Mind to elaborate on that for understanding?

[themilkcartonkid]

This honestly doesn't seem like a real claim? It seems completely NAI, but I dont think inferno was just going through the motions of doubting a Miller claim, which us plus town for me

[Tchill13]

Any competent group of town makes sure the Miller is lynched before lylo if we ever reach that point. I propose we carry on as normal and if we're pushed to that brink THEN we with it.

Yes it's essentially dead man walking.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: notanaxehole

Cool name btw.

[Vorkuta]

wouldn't fakeclaiming miller put scum into a dead man walking position for no reason?

WIFOM

I have seen scum do it

I recognize you from somewhere... /s

(we lost a town game where this very thing happened)

I propose we carry on as normal and if we're pushed to that brink THEN we with it.

Fair- Rui's going to have to defend the claim quite well though.

In that case
VOTE: Axehole

(L-2)

[davesaz]

Let me fix that for you.

Rui's going to have to

defend the claim

play the game

quite well though.

[davesaz]

For axehole voters:
Do you think this is the one time that scum gambit on an early self vote and it ends up biting them?

I don't have a read on the slot, just curious.

[Tchill13]

Exactly. It's not like he gets Immunity or something. His Actions will determine his alignment here.

[Tchill13]

As for voters of axehole. I do believe it's more likely the self vote is a scum gambit opposed to the Miller claim.

That's 100 percent personal bias based on what I've seen from this site. I understand other ppl may have had different experiences.