Mini 2074: Madness at Port Arthur (Game Over)

[Fuscezu]

I feel like insomnia is too erratic to be scum, but if they are a neeewb then I cant rely upon that.

[Fuscezu]

hang on, reads here are all weak

[Fuscezu]

ceejayvinoya - null with green garnish
Chara - lightly scum for complete lack of anything
ClearlyClarity - liked the initiative? kind of green
Fuscezu - Devil Snek
insomnia - still weak tr
Irrelephant11 - Hate it, but guttown it. I feel like I shouldnt have to guttown a player like irre
Miss Kobayashi Maru - null. Seems like if they do play they could produce good content
Persivul - percy is never easy to read for me, but id go with nullscum if i had to. When in doubt, burn it out.
RCEnigma - very telling that their biggest post is a setup post about shiinji
Shiidaji - kind of light green? Willing to give their replacement some room.
skitter30 - sneeky breeki player. Dont have a meta and hear their scum game is fire.
Smile - I go back and forth between modest green and light red. Ill wait and see how i feel about them. Helps that March is the main head.
tris - No real read yet.

[Fuscezu]

Soo many lacking slots, Im incredibly surprised I and a siteflakers are the top wagons.

[Fuscezu]

I think its unlikely that percy is scum with the likes of MKM Chara. Id consider that points in their his favor. Scum percy should actually be putting up more of a show than this i feel? Maybe im mis-remembering it though.

[Persivul]

Im sorely tempted to vote irre the more of him i read.

I don't think that's a good vote.

[Persivul]

Irrelephant11 - Hate it, but guttown it.

That's better.

[RCEnigma]

This isn't going to make much sense but I feel like we have similar thought process' in most cases. So sure you reading me scum was weird but it may be from a small sample size. I figured if you're town you would recognize me as town down the line.

Plus confronting you directly wouldn't give me the kind of read on you that I'm looking for. This doesn't seem like a pressure vote but I also don't consider myself as lhf so I still don't know what the play here is.

it's kinda pressure i suppose; or at least a way to start a dialogue so that i can try to sort out if i'm right or wrong here
i was kinda expecting some sort of response to me saying taht i was scumreading you, even if it was just 'why' or something

i guess one of the things that feel a little off is that you feel kinda passive? more than i'd expect at least?

Fair. I'm kind of out of sync with this game in particular. Couldn't tell you why and I hope it switches around day 2. At least I'll make an effort to improve my input.

I don't necessarily have a read on you either way and a vote on me based on gut doesn't sway me either way, but I'd probably feel that way as either alignment.

The best way to get content out of me would probably be to force it with a legitimate wagon, preferrably before EOD so I don't get flashlynched without giving my thoughts.

I'm following along with the game so I know what's going on but don't have any strong feelings, I have reason to believe ceejay may be town, I still think CC is town and that's about it.

If the hill I die on is my Shiidaji read directly following rvs then I find it incredibly weak and a probable point for scum to sow doubt. No one's really asked but no I don't really have Shiidaji as town anymore following his absence. Scumreading him on an activity rep out feels dumb though.

Oh insomnia is probably town as well, he would be my Fringe read however.

[Irrelephant11]

Alright time to remove some townies from our collective lynchpool
Let's do playerlist order:

ceejayvinoya
Chara
ClearlyClarity
Fuscezu
insomnia
Irrelephant11
Miss Kobayashi Maru
Persivul
RCEnigma
Shiidaji
skitter30
Smile
tris

[Irrelephant11]

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

a pretty meh vote for page 4, not necessarily alignment indicative on its own.

i like them too. it's cute.

Shiidaji: i liked insomnia's entrance and agreed with what he said about both elephant and Percy, two players i'm townreading so far. and he feels good, feels organic.
you feel marginally less good and less organic with the focus you've chosen right now, and i have to echo insomnia's point of you appearing to make judgements based on what you think someone's playstyle should be rather than what it actually is. you can contrast that with what i feel from insomnia with a genuine desire to understand.

it's great to see you as well! i hope we can have a fun game together again. <3

This is an improvement.

UNVOTE:

I think I sort of townread the quick change in mindset? Not sure scum!CJ gets much out of this anyway

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

the only time a vote has hurt my feelings so... deeply.

We always hurt the ones we love

I remember townreading the tone here att. Still kinda do.

Ugh I have fuscezu and tris as townleans for some reason.

Maybe chara too.

I like irrel and rcenigma for town

Not sure I see all these reads (fuscezu and RCE being the most surprising at this point in the game imo)
If CJ's town the "ugh" might mean "It doesn't make obvious sense but my gut tells me"
If CJ's scum this post probably contains one if not both of his partners

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

what do u mean by 'dull'?

Their early posts were not interesting.

Which struck me as blending in for some reason.

....
i'm not sure i agree with u that chara's early posts were not interesting

i'm also not sure that that having 'not interesting' posts is indicative of trying to blend in?

refer to the reply I gave to insomnia.

it's not really indicative in the sense of "oh they did this, that must mean this.". But it's a start. Remember it was my rvs vote.

This is probably the scummiest post from CJ so far - taking the time to further this defensive conversation about his own vote, and mischaracterizing his own post in the process (before now he has never insisted the Chara vote was RVS, in fact just the opposite). Meanwhile no other reads get furthered, no scumhunting done here... etc. Enough for a scumlean if I didn't have one before

I think there was something else I meant to respond to, but I lost it.

Ugh I have fuscezu and tris as townleans for some reason.

Maybe chara too.

I like irrel and rcenigma for town

Why is rcenigma town?

I like his posts, he makes more sense to me as town.

This looks like s/s but also maybe like s/t if cj's just trying to get on RCE's good side. CJ I would love to see you explain what gave you a strong townread on RCE before post 183.

Ugh I have fuscezu and tris as townleans for some reason.

Maybe chara too.

I like irrel and rcenigma for town

What's the difference between fuscezu and me, and irrel and rcenigma here?

I'm more confident on irrel's and rc's

Again, not furthering any reads or scumhunting, just endlessly explaining his own actions... Yes people are asking him questions, but that shouldn't cut off his ability to ask questions himself.

VOTE: Fuscezu

Another meh vote. Sheeping the read of someone he's said he townreads (me), but also voting someone he says he townleans (fuscezu). Doesn't look like genuine scumhunting from here.


Towniness: ★☆☆☆☆
Out of the PoE? NOPE

[Irrelephant11]

Quick caveat about CJ: I've seen him in the LHF seat before I think. I'd suggest we double check his meta on this before lynching

[Irrelephant11]

hello everyone! nice to see those of you i know.
VOTE: irrelephant

Quoting this here to remind myself to explicitly do the mental work of not townreading Chara's cheery tone. Being happy and making sense are two tools some scum get very far with, and from experience I'd put chara in the list of those who use them as scum.

VOTE: Shiidaji
i feel the exact opposite about his elephant/Percy proposal!

-snip-

Good reason for a vote, and a good vote imo.

So sorry for the misgender tris!
Chara why do you townread me

you're a good player and i have some knowledge of your scumgame. innocent until proven guilty is good for me.
same sort of situation as skitter.

This makes sense to me I guess. Not sure I love that I'm getting a "free pass" because it doesn't make Chara easier to read fmpov but given our past experience it's not out of character.

i could go into it further, but i don't see a reason to start talking about how i think you should be read as scum when i don't need to.

Like yeah I've heard these words from town!Chara before. If scum, Chara is mostly trying to avoid stepping on anyone's toes - I'm not sure they'd be so intensely careful like this. I should glance through our shared scumgame to verify.

I’m losing interest in lynching Chara/Persivul/Smile today
I’m gaining interest in lynching Shiidaji/Clearly/Fuscezu
VOTE: Shiidaji

elephant after my own heart. except for Clearly.

Saying my reads are good with one exception is basically NAI (either we're mindmelding or I'm an easy pick to sheep as scum) but I include it to remember Chara's reads from here forward

though i'm not sure of the scum motivation of ceejay finding a problem with me, then unvoting once the problem had been resolved. the post he quoted was the first one that really held any thought process from me.

Again, giving a lot of room for townreading players, not pouncing on anything.

125[post] and [post]244.
i'm still keeping an eye on skitter, but i don't think unnecessary paranoia is helpful after our last game.

And again. My main concern here is Chara's only showed two scumreads and has townread most other players so far. Not a huge deal, but could be indicative of scum having an easy time townreading town.
I think I'm more inclined to believe they're town so far, though. Scum!Chara is not making it easy for itself to be part of a mislynch this gameday, unless their partners are strong as scum and Chara's confident a mislynch will happen regardless.

i'll never understand the business of saying one head of a hydra is scummy but not the whole hydra. usually that just means it's a personality thing.
and i'm townreading Smile, but that's besides the point.

Chara could you explain this townread?

i don't know if scum Clearly would keep talking about experience anxiety here.

Chara could you explain this townread?

oh, and given another game just ended, i'm more comfortable saying i townread Fuscezu, and i agree with skitter's take that you quoted there.

Chara could you explain this townread?

[Irrelephant11]

Towniness: ★★★½☆
Out of the PoE? Yeah probably, as long as the townreads have good reasoning.

[Irrelephant11]

Anyone around and wanting to participate? This is more fun with a friend

[RCEnigma]

Do I have to do legwork? That's a turn off.

[Chara]

Smile: weak townread, if they're scum i think they're doing a good job with having multiple heads show little stress.
Clearly: stronger than Smile, anxiety is more often linked to scum than town, even from a newbie perspective. i thought Clearly's multiple mentions of it could be towny. it could also be evidence she's trying to skirt by on it.
Fuscezu: behaviours i was trying to figure out in the other game, and that i was also seeing her, ending up being towny behaviours that i just didn't agree with, so seeing them here a second time is a good sign.

pedit: hi!

[Chara]

can we do Shiidaji next?

[Chara]

wait, you're doing this in list order. i'll just do my thing then.

[Irrelephant11]

yeah we can do shiidaji
I was doing list order because I didn't have an order

[Chara]

okay, organization isn't really my thing so bear with me. i'm aware Shiidaji siteflaked but i think the content left here before the replacement is readable.
Fuscezu is the townread of those three i have the most confidence in, but it's off of one game of meta so it's not locked yet.

[Irrelephant11]

you go first on shii

[Chara]

i voted Shiidaji to see what he did about it. my impression of him as town is a strong entrance with opinions that don't follow the crowd. his initial pick of Percy/elephant follows that.
his ISO isn't long so it's not too hard to look at. he explained how he came up with Percy/elephant scum, but after Percy explained why he didn't go after elephant, he switches to appealing to Percy.

his last post before disappearing is an appeal to me for my vote to explain his position, which is something i've done as town many a time, but feels sort of showy. it's true we had a good game together last time, but the question about insomnia, while relevant, feels like the sort of discussion question you don't level at the player scumreading you, and when i read it i wondered if it was put there to look like solving.

i wanted to pressure him, but with the disappearance i can't, nor can i discuss with him to see where his head's at.
i also didn't like the elephant case being about the jailkeeper thing because that was one item in an ISO that, at the time, was not just mechanical content. i never got the sense Shii was thinking deeply about what he said.

i'm looking forward to the replacement here.

[Chara]

oh, and i'd put him at nullscum.

[Irrelephant11]

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

I'm looking for a biiig beefy hunk to vote with me wyd

how do u feel about Percy+Elephant together

tbh I kinda expected someone to partner-read my play with Persivul but only in a shallow sense i.e. "Irrelephant giving himself an excuse to not scumread Persivul right off the bat sure is a convenient scum/scum play... but oh wait, it also draws a lot of early attention to them both... maybe it's not" is the thought process I expected at least one person to have. I originally scumread that shii stopped halfway through this thought process, though rereading more posts I'm not sure I still feel that way...

mmmmmmmmy only idea of Percy comes from replacing in for him in Zulfy's game. I also expected him to immediately shush and table the role-fishing Town JK discussion because of his "by the book" playstyle that Vedith described. Percy in post 23 should have voted elephant since he is the type to hop on players like skitter for pressure in the first place anyway I also got a bad feeling from elephant's first few posts in the same way that I did on Flavor Leaf in that game.

That game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79035
I see now the connection between my play here and FL's play there, actually (he fakeclaimed masons with a scumpartner on page 2 or so). So I'm not as bothered by this as I was originally.

Initially as I read p1 I had the same thought process as Percy had in 23, elephant felt self-conscious in the two VLA posts. In addition a player who's experienced enough to be comfortable with writing the underlined thoughts below!!! vv

-snip-

It was a sort-of apology to funkybike because you pointed out something from a mod post so I read through all the words of the mod posts and i noticed the rule about PMing the mod if you’re v/la which is already done wrong
I’m also just very bored and posting anything that comes to mind

But yeah I mean if someone has to be scum on the first page I’m definitely a top 3 candidate

(after Chara and insomnia) so I don’t blame you

but still encourages early role discussion felt counterintuitive to me. If elephant is an experienced player they should be ignoring that thread of convo completely until absolutely necessary.

This is still my least favorite post from shii. I wish shii hadn't disappeared before answering my question about why my very shallow role speculation was scummy, given I didn't encourage anything that would out anyone really.
but especially the scummy thing was agreeing with Persivul that my v/la comments were self-conscious. I don't think they were (I mean I know for a fact they weren't, but my point is I think it's a bad read) and this sorta reads like "hmm if I can't get Persivul and Irrelephant to look scummy together, maybe I can turn Persivul on Irrel by sheeping Percy?"

As for Percy, it seems like you are casing him based on what you think is his playstyle and he should strictly follow your line of action that you made for him. I don’t know how accurate your reads are based on that, it would certainly take me a lot of games with someone in order to determine how they would usually act.

I'll continue this discussion after Persivul explains why he didn't just vote elephant in 23

Okay so for a second I was gonna give this one to shiidaji with the following thought process:
- shiidaji has seen scum fakeclaim masons and is reminded of that here
-- in that game, shiidaji was a replacement for persivul, so persivul has also seen it
--- shiidaji has the somewhat reasonable expectation that persivul should scumread me for doing the weird thing FL did, even though Persivul knows he himself isn't scum

But post 23 is the one where Persivul scumreads me for being self-conscious.

but on

second

third thought maybe it's still reasonable for shii to expect Persivul to follow up on a scumread with a vote?

-snip-

but still encourages early role discussion felt counterintuitive to me.

I get that if someone does nothing but setup spec it's scummy, but aside from that - what do you have against it?

Site meta lately is premature ejaclaimation. People can't keep their mouths shut. If proper use of known roles is to wait until later before claiming, pointing that out seems appropriate.

like... in my head this feels obvious and not worth talking about lmao. what I have against it is competent scum potentially combing through conversations related to this topic to Jailkeeper-hunt. Is my point clear yet let us join hands.

I did townread this post from shiidaji tonally. "Let us join hands" being actually very towny tonally, the more I think about it. I don't necessarily expect scum to go "I am trying to talk in such a way as to avoid scum understanding, but so that town

will

understand. Lock eyes with me and

get it

, please."

-snip-

I don't really feel Percyscum anymore Chara. It is nice to see you again my friend. Do you feel like insomnia's entrance was natural? I liked post 45 trying to follow up on my thought process.

This post is basically NAI without the followup.

Towniness: ★★★☆☆
Out of the PoE? Depends on replacement

[Irrelephant11]

i wanted to pressure him, but with the disappearance i can't, nor can i discuss with him to see where his head's at.
i also didn't like the elephant case being about the jailkeeper thing because that was one item in an ISO that, at the time, was not just mechanical content.

same
good point

I landed townier than I expected on reread. Gonna move my vote to VOTE: ceejay while I continue my rereading