Newbie 1943: Crosswords (Game Over)

[Spangled]

I like your analysis of Robb; it echoes my thoughts by and large. You also considered something else no one had considered; the genuineness of his posts and tone.
I don't like that I'm mentioned only once (as making a decent case on Temporal), but still pushed up to a TR. Why else do you think I'm town?
You make an excellent case for scum!Temporal; I'm going to sheep you on this. I've been putting off reading his ISO for a while. I think I was subconsciously clinging to wanting to be the mediator between him and Robb... but I think I'm done with that now.
VOTE: TemporalLich

You do suggest me, Adorable, Cyrus or Cyan as potential candidates for being Temporal's scumpartner because we publicly supported him. I'm inclined to think that scumpartners tend not to do that so as to not draw attention to themselves.

@Temporal, as this I believe is L-1, could you towncase yourself for us please, and then perhaps claim?

[Sera Masumi]

If anybody lolhammers, they're dead, FYI.

I don't like that I'm mentioned only once (as making a decent case on Temporal), but still pushed up to a TR. Why else do you think I'm town?

In general I quite like your analysis, I think a lot of your posts have basically read my mind and helped set a positive consensus for town incredibly nicely- I really liked #399 and your more recent post about Adorable for instance, and I like . I like your arguments for town!Teacher in #83 too, they more or less are the types of arguments I would have made if I were here. Your pressure against Flavor is solid in #209, and I like your continuance of that pressure in #270, even if I'm pretty sure Red flips town this game. I like your rather lassez-faire reaction to Red not liking cases when I compare it to Temp. I got a little lazy when it comes to just saying "I like this post" in the ISO because linking things is honestly quite a bit of effort (If I do it again, I'm definitely not writing the post in one huge burst in the early morning), but that's really what it comes down to. Like with Red and Robb especially, you're making a lot of thoughtful content that is really clicking with me, and I like that.

In terms of the whole "Town v. Town" fight thing; the thing is that if Temp is scum, that's exactly the reaction they want town to have. Robb is going to prove to be a difficult lynch, so the logical thing to do is back off him until later when you can get "paranoid" about him down-the-line, but Temp just had a pretty ferocious battle with him when his lynch was looking more plausible, so the best move unless you really want to bus Temp (and I don't see doing that here) is pushing this as a two-townie fight. It doesn't cost you any town cachet to say that it's a town-town fight, especially since that's something some townies are willing to independently believe; it's decent reward for basically no risk. You're the one that first brought it up so out of the group I'd put you least likely to be Temp's buddy with that reasoning (and just in general your engagement with Temp is easily the best of the group, which is another reason I think you're town), but I don't want to totally discount you either.

[Sera Masumi]

*I like your recent continuation of your Adorable case.

[Cyan Talon]

Replacement arrives and I don't think I'll ever find the chance to truly read through Sera's slogs of posts. There are a lot of words there, and the words show me she's putting in a lot of effort. I'm feeling she's town here; if scum wanted to fake a towny entry I don't think they would consider building up a case on a player so quickly.

In regards to your case, your arguments on Temporal seem really convincing, and it does make me doubt the TvT thing I mentioned earlier somewhat (although to say I'm sure here would be wrong). I'd like to hear Temporal give counterpoint or whatnot before deciding if the lynch should go through.

I somewhat disagree with your read on Cyrus, mainly because he tends to play about as messily as he is doing here and his behavior doesn't really align with traditional Mafia meta (please look at the town game he posted for an idea of how he works).

To end my post, hey guys I'm back. School's already started but if that's an obstacle for me I never would have signed up for MafiaScum in the first place.

[Cyan Talon]

You do suggest me, Adorable, Cyrus or Cyan as potential candidates for being Temporal's scumpartner because we publicly supported him. I'm inclined to think that scumpartners tend not to do that so as to not draw attention to themselves.

In a case where someone's being blatantly scummy, that might be the case, but it doesn't take much effort to say an interaction looks like two bickering town if it isn't, and scum can probably do that without really gathering too much attention. Scumpartners are generally focused on two things: gaining towncred and surviving to the end, so if they can move closer to the second goal without straying from the first then they probably will. The suggestion makes perfect sense.

[Sera Masumi]

Honestly I'll try to tone it down on the WOT now; that first post was not supposed to be that long but when I started I couldn't stop and can be a wordy person, RIP.

In regards to your case, your arguments on Temporal seem really convincing, and it does make me doubt the TvT thing I mentioned earlier somewhat (although to say I'm sure here would be wrong). I'd like to hear Temporal give counterpoint or whatnot before deciding if the lynch should go through.

I don't think the lynch should go through until we get a phone replacement and they start saying stuff unless I really don't like what Temp sells me, personally. Honestly, I think I'm going to unvote just to make sure nobody pulls any shenanigans, but the intent is absolutely there and unless Temp has a really strong defense he should probably just claim now and we can move forward from there. (Though he should be defending himself anyway.)

UNVOTE:

I somewhat disagree with your read on Cyrus, mainly because he tends to play about as messily as he is doing here and his behavior doesn't really align with traditional Mafia meta (please look at the town game he posted for an idea of how he works).

I'm admittedly open to this; I'm slightly skeptical of looking at meta because I don't have the experience doing it to know that I"m looking at it properly. but I did skim the game and at least on surface-level it's looking rather similar, though given that cyrus himself posted I would expect cyrus-scum to try and replicate his play there; the question is how capable he is of doing it.

[Sera Masumi]

*what cyrus himself posted

[Adorable]

If you guys think Temporal really is scum, then the only person I could think of who could be Temporal's scum buddy would be Cyrus if Temporal really is scum.

[Sera Masumi]

If you guys think Temporal really is scum, then the only person I could think of who could be Temporal's scum buddy would be Cyrus if Temporal really is scum.

Big if true.

What do you think of Temp?

[TemporalLich]

Just saw I got to L-1 and then instead of being put in the tent I'm taken off L-1. I'm not claiming yet.

[Sera Masumi]

Just saw I got to L-1 and then instead of being put in the tent I'm taken off L-1. I'm not claiming yet.

I mean, I unvoted solely to make sure no lolhammer shenanigans went on and gave you time to respond to the in-thread arguments or claim. Choosing to do neither isn't really the best look...

[TemporalLich]

Just saw I got to L-1 and then instead of being put in the tent I'm taken off L-1. I'm not claiming yet.

I mean, I unvoted solely to make sure no lolhammer shenanigans went on and gave you time to respond to the in-thread arguments or claim. Choosing to do neither isn't really the best look...

VOTE: Sera Masumi

your vote is wolfy then

[Sera Masumi]

your vote is wolfy then

Ok.

Follow-up: Why?

[TemporalLich]

1. You think scum would really write that 388-400 exchange together? Because I don't.
2. I believe I linked the post where Cyrus indicates that he doesn't have reads because the game isn't giving him that much information? (#374, he also says we have "no leads" in the post I quoted).

1. That interaction seems NAI to me.
2. I agree but I don't think that's at all AI

Also Temp why do you think I'm town now?

I gave you a null-townlean read since I thought your catch-up was promising.

Ok.

Follow-up: Why?

if you're trying to rolefish, you're trying to look townier than you should be.

[Sera Masumi]

2. I agree but I don't think that's at all AI

You think that flows well at all with basically everything else he's posting?

What was promising about it?

if you're trying to rolefish, you're trying to look townier than you should be.

Right now, you're somebody that is effectively at L-1. As somebody at L-1, you have two main options available to you:

1. Get the wagon off you without claiming by responding to criticisms
2. Claim and persuade people to look elsewhere.

That is where we are. I explicitly gave you the option of doing 1 and not 2, maybe there are persuasive counterarguments to the things being raised that I just haven't thought of. But you need to do

something

, and I gave you the space to do that something. So, you know, do it?

[Sera Masumi]

Out of curiosity why am I the scummy one and not Spangled, who was the actual L-1 vote?

[TemporalLich]

My Sera Scum-countercase I guess:

Phone gave me the impression of town failing hard at fakeclaiming, to the point of accidentally claiming scum (i.e. he claimed Cop with a n0 guilty on himself). Scumclaims are scummy but I'm not tunneling the newbie for it.

159 was from doubt fostered by people townreading Robb. connor was pretty low on my readlist for basically not being in the game.

I'm not sure why 161 is still being used to attack me. If doubts are a bad thing to have, then I should hard SR Robb instead. 163 was because I was being attacked for having doubts and acting like I'm scummy scum, and then the whole "I claimed scum" business happened. That's -10% me being scum in a SvT interaction.

Sera, you can believe refusing to give cases is a "playstyle" all you want, but it is deliberately anti-town and I want no part in it. Attacking the reasoning I gave in 340 is not only not towny, but might indicate Sera is scum with RedFlavor.

343 is deliberately misrepresenting facts. 270 was my vote at that time. And asking someone to explain their reads is not posturing. And "if it is a PL I honestly don't have anything better." is null-scum at worst, my vote's still on my bottom read at least.

I'm pretty confident Sera is scum.

[TemporalLich]

2. I agree but I don't think that's at all AI

You think that flows well at all with basically everything else he's posting?

Actually it kinda looks out of place in Spangled's ISO a bit. cyrus's ISO looks fine though.

What was promising about it?

It was an actual catchup with decent reads...

Right now, you're somebody that is effectively at L-1. As somebody at L-1, you have two main options available to you:

1. Get the wagon off you without claiming by responding to criticisms
2. Claim and persuade people to look elsewhere.

That is where we are. I explicitly gave you the option of doing 1 and not 2, maybe there are persuasive counterarguments to the things being raised that I just haven't thought of. But you need to do

something

, and I gave you the space to do that something. So, you know, do it?

You don't get to intimidate me by acting like I'm in the tent when I'm only at L-2. Either you can have me at L-2 or L-1. You don't get to put me in a superposition of both voting states.

[Sera Masumi]

I'll just concede the intial phone stuff because it isn't even that important; it's some of the least scummy stuff in your ISO.

159 was from doubt fostered by people townreading Robb. connor was pretty low on my readlist for basically not being in the game.

Incidentally, what cause you to go from "I'm just gonna say Robb is scum" in #103 to "your recent posts have been townie I guess" in #114? He made one post, outside his question to you, in that time: Post #111, where he just says that self-voting is scummy, just not alignment-indicative. Which is basically just saying "It's technically not scummy, but it is anti-town". What is alignment-indicative about that post? Why did any prior good-looking posts not come into consideration until Robb asks you to explain your read?

Why didn't you mention this at the time? Make any note of it until after you were called out? You had absolutely no actual suspicions at that point and instead decided to vote a nullread with one post? And if you didn't have any suspicions, you didn't ask questions or try to sort anyone or do... anything? Because all you do is swing to another wagon and make no attempt to actually engage with the other people in the game? What were you hoping the vote on connor would accomplish? If you wanted to pressure him, why not ask him any questions or give him things to talk about? You don't do that and just hop onto another uncontroversial potential wagon.

Actually, you aren't really engaging with users in with an intent to sort them at all this game. What's up with that?

I'm not sure why 161 is still being used to attack me. If doubts are a bad thing to have, then I should hard SR Robb instead. 163 was because I was being attacked for having doubts and acting like I'm scummy scum, and then the whole "I claimed scum" business happened. That's -10% me being scum in a SvT interaction.

Let's look at what is happening here.

You post this.

Not too much feeling Robb scum anymore. Phone is still a bad vote.

Okay, why do you not feel that Robb is scum? You don't say. You give no indication and this happens to be when momentum starts to die on Robb with users like Spangled making a case that Robb is town. People naturally find this a little curious and maybe even a little suspicious. Robb then points this out.

When I’m gone please pay attention to the back tracking by temporal. He doubled down on me but now two people are advocating I could be town and he backs down without a fight or without any reasons

You could, here, just explain the rationale for your vote switch and explain why you didn't mention it and how this all came from a townie headspace. You could actually challenge his argument and engage with him in good faith. Instead, you just vote him again. You don't explain how this erases the previous townread that existed of him, why it's even particularly suspicious. And you never do that. The closest you come is saying that it's suspicious because Rob is calling you out for something he finds suspicious (????) in #185. And I have no idea how that's supposed to be a scumtell to the point that it obliterated your newfound townread.

You then devote your energy to saying that somebody saying that you "claim[ed] scum" is somehow asking for an actual roleclaim, which is incredibly ????? in itself.

I really need you to explain how

1. Unvotes Robb because he's convinced by other users
2. Robb points out that you don't actually mention why you unvoted him
3. You vote him again

Comes from an organic evolution of your read on him at all. Because I'm not seeing it.

Sera, you can believe refusing to give cases is a "playstyle" all you want, but it is deliberately anti-town and I want no part in it. Attacking the reasoning I gave in 340 is not only not towny, but might indicate Sera is scum with RedFlavor.

343 is deliberately misrepresenting facts. 270 was my vote at that time. And asking someone to explain their reads is not posturing. And "if it is a PL I honestly don't have anything better." is null-scum at worst, my vote's still on my bottom read at least.

There's a lot wrong here.

First of all, it's utterly non alignment indicative and I firmly don't believe you don't understand that.

Secondly, yes I mixed up who your vote was on in my readthrough. What does that change exactly? It doesn't impact my argument at all.

Thirdly, you didn't just "ask for someone to explain their reads". Let me quote you.

care to explain these reads?

otherwise I might think you're scum trying to pocket those people

Yes, however could I read this as you posturing or intimating that phone is likely to be scum? It boggles the mind.

Things you didn't even respond to:

Temp's 208 is pretty bad too. This comes like 100 posts too late and is just a bland echo of Cyrus' 89, more or less. And I really dislike how Temp commented two posts later and said absolutely nothing about it at the time.

I'm also deeply uncomfortable with more posturing at phone after more people start finding him suspicious in 403 after the context provided in 359. Temp's suspicions and votes consistently seem to be timed with consensus opinion and echoing others and that makes me deeply uncomfortable. I like Red calling this out in 407.

I'm pretty confident Sera is scum.

Incidentally, why does Sera!Scum jump into the game and immediately try to burn town credit she doesn't have attacking somebody everybody else thinks was town and is in a de facto leader-like role? Especially if you think my buddy is Red, why wouldn't I attack Cyan or Phone or somebody?

[Sera Masumi]

You don't get to intimidate me by acting like I'm in the tent when I'm only at L-2. Either you can have me at L-2 or L-1. You don't get to put me in a superposition of both voting states.

That isn't really how "I'm unvoting just so that you don't get lolhammered, you're functionally at L-1" works but ok.

[TemporalLich]

You don't get to intimidate me by acting like I'm in the tent when I'm only at L-2. Either you can have me at L-2 or L-1. You don't get to put me in a superposition of both voting states.

That isn't really how "I'm unvoting just so that you don't get lolhammered, you're functionally at L-1" works but ok.

Either way I'm not in the tent yet.

[Sera Masumi]

It was an actual catchup with decent reads...

Wait, you found me scumreading you, somebody else you've been proclaiming town all game, townreading your main scum suspect, giving a town-lean to phone who you are now intimating is quite plausibly scum, to be "decent reads"? Why? What was decent about them?

This isn't gelling for me at all, as you can see.

[Sera Masumi]

Either way I'm not in the tent yet.

If somebody hammers, they're lynched next.

VOTE: TemporalLich

[TemporalLich]

Wait, you found me scumreading you, somebody else you've been proclaiming town all game, townreading your main scum suspect, giving a town-lean to phone who you are now intimating is quite plausibly scum, to be "decent reads"? Why? What was decent about them?

This isn't gelling for me at all, as you can see.

The effort for an opening post that is asterisked with "Will be on a plane tomorrow, so catch-up post might not be until Tuesday if I end up sleeping all night, which I probably will." is staggering.

You did SR cyrus which is very off-putting but at least you gave a case and thought.

[cyrus62]

let me start by saying i realu dislike big post overly worded as they are could have hidden meaning as i said i wasnt able to read no one fully yet and yes at a risk of takeing flank may i ask why your puting temp to l1 with out asking red to tell thire reads or build a case waiting for rob to respond and even hearing them out fully . all i have seen from temp this game was he scum read some one got yelled at by the person thenevery one said it was tvt and no one looked closer at rob . or red for saying phone is town cuse i playd with him . i need these people to be looked at closer before i even think of voteing my town reads and now you put your self in a spot saying temp and me or spangled or me so dose that mean that if temp comes back town your still assume me but now suspect spanglled and then hang oonne of us.