Mini Normal 2095 - Game Over!

[Alisae]

I'd like to know why there are votes on Luca. Specifically from Billy and datisi.

If someone tells me to go back and read I'm not going to do that due to the large number of posts I've missed.

If you refuse to tell me still, that's understandable, but I'm not going to go back and read.

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Town
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Datisi - Her early hunting with Billy and in general is fine and not faked. For the most part, it looks natural and good. I think her read list is definitely fine. Her stance on Kop is perfect and probably comes from a townie because putting pressure on that slot isn't really worthwhile. Her Luca read is fine. When I see her talking about it, I don't really care about what she feels like is faked by Luca, but its enough and specific enough to say that her concern there definitely exists and I believe it. Her wagon is also WAY too quick for my liking. The VCA stuff gets its own post. Also, I definitely feel like her interactions with Icon are good for her. I buy the conclusion she's giving me in 521 considering the progression she's talking about in 612.

Billy - Early game dude
Klick - His early game solving definitely existed and it wasn't bad. It looked natural and fine to me.
A50 - I think him being the first one to mention Kop like at all and wanting to put pressure on there looks good for him.

Flippy - A lot of the posts he's making like, aren't really that bad at all. His reasoning for why Kop shouldn't be voted is perfect. 160 is definitely fine aside from the tchill stuff but I definitely see how he got that conclusion from tchill. And his actual move onto Datisi doesn't really feel that scum motivated? Like through his posts, it seems like he's trying to figure out what's going on and trying to solve and I buy it.

tchill - Super wrong but doesn't really come across as trying to push an agenda or control the town.

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VCA
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Kop (4) [L-1] - Almost50, Iconeum, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick
Datisi (1) - Tchill13

Not Voting (4) - Luca Blight, Emperor flippyNips

--

Datisi (4) [L-1] - Tchill13, Emperor flippyNips, Luca Blight, Iconeum
Kop (3) [L-2] - Almost50, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick


So I'm usually not someone who goes to VCA here, but I kinda of want to note that the Kop wagon was around and way more people had time to give actual imput on it. It sat around and didn't really do much.
The Datisi however was put to L-1 VERY quickly.
The only real similar voter here is Icon, who moves from Kop to Datisi.

Kop (3) [L-1] - Almost50, Iconeum, Datisi, Billy Pilgrim
Datisi (3) [L-2] - Tchill13, Emperor flippyNips, Luca Blight
Emperor flippyNips (1) - Kop
Tchill13 (1) - Klick

I think at around this formation is where I want to say that there is 1 scum on each wagon. I feel like thats pretty safe to say considering the speed of each wagon.
Kop's wagon here I feel like from a Micro perspective took way more time to form and its kind of natural. A50's vote is good as explained to why I'm TRing him. Datisi and Billy really don't seem to know whats going on here and kind of feel like they're just along for the ride. And it really doesn't look that bad from both of them tbh.
Then I feel like Icon if anything is like, trying to persue with some kind of plan. I don't think its a reach to say that he's definitely trying to control how the day plays out.

Now the Datisi wagon I really don't like how quickly it was formed.
Tchill was on it before kop was even put to L-1, and I don't really feel like his vote is where scum would be here.
I'm not actually sure why Nips is on the wagon, but like, his posts prior to joining it looked decentish, and his protest against the Kop wagon is good.
And Luca's vote just fucking sucks.

Add Icon's vote onto Datisi's wagon and you have a wagon that feels artificially boosted to L-1.
It definitely screams 2 scum to me.

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Scum
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Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff.
54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.
His shade in 85 is bad and comes across as scummy.
The Klick stance in 214 just sucks because the way he presents it, it really seems like it could go either way depending on what happens.
224 kind of just sucks. I'm not buying the "scum who is at a loss of what to do" narative at all because when I was reading that, I was generally liking that interaction with Billy.
318 is bad because its him just saying that Klick is town over and over again. The individual points aren't anything thats new. Also in the way its presented itself, I dislike this because he's just saying the samething over and over again. Like, he's trying to look like he's solving, but nothing in that post is actually adding anything new to the game. Its just non-stop praise and I don't like it.
Also apparently, accoriding to you, 325 contains content but it doesn't? Like, that can be faked.
488 is opportunistic. The narative being built here sucks. The vote is just scum.

Icon - I like Datisi so I don't like how Icon is pushing it. I hate how I'm immediately attacked in 593 while I'm catching up. I also kinda feel like Icon is definitely trying to control the game in a way I really don't like. Like, the threat in 618 kinda comes across as "how dare you question my authority." I state a scumread on Luca and that I'm not completely buying the Datisi wagon and I'm being attacked for it because its "not current" like????? Also, I'm really not buying how his confidence level goes from "maybe we're all town" to "I have this super confident read on Datisi. I'm using words to make it look like I WAS uncertain to make it look like I'm trying to solve, but I actually just had this really confident scumread the whole time hahahaha." Not to mention what the original fuss was over, is completely irrelevant. "Devoid of Life" and "Fake" who cares they both mean the samething. It seemed just really semantic to me.

[Alisae]

tchill its okay you don't have to read I don't really suggest reading most of what you missed either

If you disagree with anything I would like to have a conversation about it?

[Tchill13]

I like the fact that there's meaning behind the Luca stance in the "wording" of his reads.

Of the 2 you definitely have more solid foundation with your Luca read imo (even though I do have him as one of my stronger tr's atm)

Have you reread the entire game? Specifically the first 15 pages?

I remember wagon formation specifically having an impact on my SR's early. At least the SR's I've been pushing as of late.

Datisi and Billy.

[Datisi]

792 855 901 925
Luca's posts are either quoted or very close to mine

[Alisae]

Have you reread the entire game? Specifically the first 15 pages?

yeah I read the game as soon as I replaced in it was a very quick read

[Tchill13]

Ah yes it was because datisi was pressured and the kop wagon formed as soon as datisi's wagon grew to a size where it could have been pushed through.

And datisi and Billy went from pushing one another to voting WITH each other in the blink of an eye.

And now they're voting WITH each other again.

And I BET alisae, you've given more foundation to a Luca SR than either Billy or datisi has.

[Datisi]

Iirc Billy actually misunderstood one of my posts and was later corrected. Plus he started SRing Luca himself

[Tchill13]

792 855 901 925
Luca's posts are either quoted or very close to mine

Have you only really pressed ppl as scum that have pushed you as scum this game?

The only 2 I can remember are Billy and Luca.

[Tchill13]

Iirc Billy actually misunderstood one of my posts and was later corrected. Plus he started SRing Luca himself

That's fine. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if Alisae has brought THE MOST to the table in terms of a Luca SR.

[Datisi]

They are coincidentally the only ones that I (as of now) got stronger pings from. I still feel very much lost in this game.

Also what do you mean by Billy and Luca?

[Alisae]

Tchill why do u TR Luca?

[Tchill13]

I mean you pushed Billy after he pushed you.

You pushed Luca after he pushed you.

And it is a very large coincidence. Not as large as a kop wagon growing out of nowhere when steam was picking up on the datisi wagon though.

[Tchill13]

Tchill why do u TR Luca?

I'm about to lay back down. I'll get to this though. It's early game reasons I'll have to look it up, sorry.

[Datisi]

Oh, I thought you were talking about me SR Icon.

When did I push Billy? I've been consistently TRing him this game.

[Alisae]

Tchill why do u TR Luca?

I'm about to lay back down. I'll get to this though. It's early game reasons I'll have to look it up, sorry.

No worries I'm excited to see that you are still around and posting and i hope we can talk about it soon

[Billy Pilgrim]

Ok so looking back through the votes, I literally typed vote in the search bar so I think I should have gotten everything.

I feel like tchills is the first vote out of RVS at 149. He votes me and it's based on the tonal tell. This is early in the game, and he's progressing the game.

Post 184, tchill moves his vote to Emperor. He accuses Emperor of whiteknighting me and quotes relevant posts, also complains that he didn't have time to respond to emperor's progressing read, and that he was setting up a mis-lynch in the case of a green flip. This feels very town.

Post 180 - now I'm getting concerned because this one didn't show up on my search. I only found it indirectly when tchill quoted it later. So if I miss anything, please let me know, I thought searching "vote" would get everything but it already missed something. Anyway, this is Klikk voting tchill saying he wanted to wait a bit but saying he got similar vibes as emperor and that he felt tchill was being surface level. This put tchill at L-2. I'm not in love with this vote, but it's early and everyone was sort of grasping.

After the tchill and Emperor back and forth, emperor unvotes at 209, but leaves this "I'll come back to you if I feel like it's necessary.". That doesn't feel townie.

211 - I'm townreading tchill so I take my vote off.

227 - Icon returns and cases Emperor and votes him. The case was built logically and premised around fence-sitting and setting up mis-lynches. This felt genuine.

230 - It's right after that that Kop sheeps Icon which brings Emperor to L-2. This looks real bad and despite promising returning with reasons he replaced out.

Post 234 tchill deflates a wagon that he had started that was picking up steam. Now, while I typed that in the worst way imaginable, I'm actually reading this as town. He's looking for the motivation and pointing out how bad the play would have been as scum.

Then 236 he votes Datisi based on reasons he had given while leaving Datisi. I think this is the first vote on Datisi, and the read and reasoning feels town.



Tonight ended up busier than I expected. I will add to this tomorrow. As of now, this really strengthened my town read of tchill. I will pick this up from here tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

There has been so much shit posted recently and I'm completely fed up with this game at the moment, so I'm gonna organise the relevant recent material into this post and then leave it be.

754 - why Alisae's 'case' against me is terrible.

760 - The progression on my Datisi read

764, 765 and 768 - The reason why the VCA is worthless.

890 (etc) - further explanation behind the timing of my Datisi vote.

This shouldn't even need pointing out, but given Datisi has claimed VT and is still very much a dubious slot, and a lynch that would produce a lot of information, it is pretty standard practice to make this the D1 lynch. Even if Datisi were Town, which I feel is unlikely, it would be in Mafia's interest to push another lynch after her VT claim. The reason I'm so frustrated is that one, possibly two townies have taken on board this complete reach of an argument against me and played into scum's hands. I have given a full and frank explanation for why I voted like I did, and there is evidence to back this up. Given this is the case, it makes no logical sense to lynch me instead of Datisi today.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Datisi

[Chemist1422]

VC 1.9

Datisi (3)

- Tchill13, Iconeum, Luca Blight

Luca Blight (3)

- Alisae, Billy Pilgrim, Datisi

Tchill13 (1)

- Klick

Not Voting (1)

- Almost50, Emperor flippyNips

With 9 alive, majority is 5.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-08-28 07:00:00)

Notes

Klick is V/LA for a few days.

[Tchill13]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

Datisi came alive when pushed.

Flippynips was a weird mixture of nonsensical posting and pushing me with no real reason (flippy admitted this)

Billy came off as trying to be perceived as ignorant.

Klick mentioned starting a town block.

Kop was MIA.

Luca was the ONLY player that seemed like I'd have any luck working with in the first 10 pages of the game and while I do agree alisae mentioning the "fence sitting" of Luca sounds good in theory if you'll go back and look at luca's iso he's only hard SR'd datisi and has only voted... Datisi.

[Alisae]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

[Tchill13]

The interaction between datisi and icon has left a terrible taste in my mouth with both of them.

If we lynch Luca and he flips town I will be extremely annoyed... Plus the idea that datisi AND iconeum will probably both still be in play at the beginning of D2 isn't a pleasant one to me. If one or both are town they've already proven they don't care voting with players they just believed were scum. That type makes for great scum TOOLS imo.

[Tchill13]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

I subscribe to the school of thought that you don't have to have the game figured out early. Sometimes you just let it come to you. It's very difficult to disrupt the flow of RVS and out of comparison alone like I mentioned Luca was the only player that didn't make me... Alarmed so to speak.

Now I'm not one to try and catch scum D1 based off gut or feeling. That maybe a confidence issue or it maybe that observing the entire play list, weighing the pros and cons in terms of level headedness, ability to be manipulated by scum, who I would want in lylo if I were scum in a given game... Works better for me in the early game.

Icon and datisi are players if be trying to get to lylo if I were scum here.

I don't see how you can debate in a hypothetical where icon, Datisi, and Luca were all town.

Luca would be the most destructive to scum throughout an entire game.

There's also actual scum motivation in voting WITH someone who just pressured you to get a lynch through as datisi voted WITH icon to get at the time an inactive slots lynched push through.

[Tchill13]

Lucas's early game was way better than anyone else's from my perspective.

talk to me about it?
When I read the game I found that Luca didn't really do anything significant or substantial like at all

What was substantially GOOD about the other players?

So far I've seen icon and datisi vote every which way a wagon was.

[Tchill13]

And if you say "they're intentions were in the right place" that's not gonna hold up.

I noticed you said I was "just wrong" but not manipulative in your early read of me. That's fine I have no pride about my early game. I'd like to know where the others (not me or Luca) were particularly correct though.

[Emperor flippyNips]

Flippynips was a weird mixture of nonsensical posting and pushing me with no real reason (flippy admitted this)

Did I tho.?? Also it was fabricated but I had a reason. I wanted to see how you would react to me pushing you. & see what people thought about you in response.


I also don’t know what 933 is to. Just say my name it gets me talking!