Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[TiphaineDeath]

Does not kill entire town does not mean you don't kill multiple townies when you go.

[Korina]

Yea, but like I said, either there is someone with a role that disables mine, or I'm basically a supersaint who targets a townie. I really doubt that I kill more than 2 people.

[TiphaineDeath]

How many people would you have to kill for you to think that killing yourself today safely would be a good move for the town?

[Korina]

The point I'd say that would be a good move is literally when we'd automatically lose due to the lynch, which means the day before mylo, or mylo. Either way, at that point if anyone votes me and my ability is activated, they're confirmed scum and should always be hanged that moment.

[eth0s]

Well the way I see it we have to weigh our potential outcomes.

1a. Korina is town aligned, we don't lynch or vig shoot him, and we either keep him protected all game or after his ability activates (which protectives isn't confirmed to be present, and would also be nullified if our protective role

died). Potentially outing the protective to a mafia watcher should they exist.
1b. Korina is town aligned, we attempt (or at least have a general consensus) to protect him, but it fails, he dies, therefore more of us also die, giving scum a landslide numbers advantage.
1c. Korina is town aligned, we lynch or vig shoot him before his ability activates to essentially "defuse the bomb".

2a. Korina is scum aligned, we waste our protective role(s) on him all game, and potentially out the protective(s) to a mafia watcher should one exist.
2b. Korina is scum aligned, we fail to or otherwise do not protect him, and by some miracle he is killed by a 3rd party who probably ends up wiping the scum team.
2c. Korina is scum aligned, we lynch or vig him now and waste an opportunity to kill more scum with the kill.

Then there's a third set of options that could come into play depending on whether a 3rd faction of some sort exists that he belongs to (my knowledge in such things is extremely limited and I'm not even sure if that's non-bastard).

So these are our possible outcomes. Seeing as how the dream of linking together masons to datees is now dead, and how it would be basically impossible to get any potential protectives on him, and us be comfortable in knowing that's actually happening without outing said protectives, I think I am leaning on taking the route that leads us to outcome 1c/2c.

The only way I really see us having a chance to reliably protect him every night and be confident in that is if he were to speeddate himself to said protective by chance and be able to confirm to us that we have one that is down with the plan (while keeping their identity a secret). The problem with this is that he cannot speeddate new people together again until, what, day 3 or 4? And that seems to be risky given the fact that at some point, he activates, then we are too late. There's also a chance that town!korina dates a scum who just lies, then town thinks he is protected when he isn't, then the scum are informed and shoot him.

I think I covered pretty much everything that could go right/wrong here and it just seems like a risk to let him live. Maybe someone more familiar with upick setups can give more input into what kind of roles would be included with the town, assuming his claim to be true.
Just weigh the options for yourselves and we can try to come to an agreement. Korina I'm especially interested to hear your take on this, so please read this thoroughly rather than skim it.

Fuck. I just realized I didn't include anything about investigating him and I don't feel like trying to figure out how to fit that in the outcomes now, so I guess just keep in mind we could let him live for the day and check his alignment, if that even changes anyone's mind about it. I guess it should because if he is confirmed town via investigation then we at least know exactly what our risks are with killing him or letting him live. And if he is confirmed scum then we can just leave him alive until we think he is activated lol. As a matter of fact if he's scum aligned then he could already be activated just telling us he's not so we don't lynch him for awhile.

[Elements]

TMI?

[Korina]

Like I have said, I'm 99.9% sure that my ability once activated, will only trigger if I'm lynched. Any night actions are pretty much a waste. The only reason why a doctor should ever be on me is if they believe that I'm going to be shot by mafia, and they want to stop the kill.

[Korina]

Also, I'd like to point out once again, if I'm a mafia-flagbearer, I don't out myself as flagbearer. I'd do it as town or third party, where the only person reasonably dying due to my ability is me, and me alone. With town it's iffy because I don't know how many people I kill.

[TiphaineDeath]

Yeaaah, ok, you can be town.

Back to TL VOTE: TL

[TemporalLich]

Korina's role claim is towny I guess (despite being way too freaking soon!)

I'm liking eth0s so far for the setup spec in 304. (scum can't setup spec)

Either way I don't think Korina is worth voting right now.

TD is still scummy so my vote is still on TD (come on now, now you're making your vote on me look bad)

[Korina]

@TL, yes scum can. Scum very much can. Plus that setup spec isn't really setup spec. It's the potential outcomes of what I could be.
It's townie, yes, but not what I'd call setup spec.

[Elbirn]

Elements and Elbirn were just because their names started with El, and I couldn't think of anything better.

I knew it

I'm currently going through ISOs to try to get some reads going, and I noticed this:

I don't want ele lynched we're dating today

Did GE say anything about you two being lovers, or is it just that you two are in the PT I made and you don't want them lynched?

No I didn't realize that my pt with elements wasn't super special secret and I thought it would be in my best interest to use it to sort him today and not let him die

I have done very little on this front.

[jjh927]

Huh I was gonna post before reading the rest of this thread but I'm gonna keep reading now

[jjh927]

Ha funny thing I'm already voting Korina

[jjh927]

Yeah I'm gonna continue to vote Korina holy fuck

[jjh927]

First up, here's this handy part of the rules that Gamma Emerald's requested means of PM confirmation means you should all have read

Damage system: each player starts with 2 hit points. There are ways a player may take damage, as well as ways to prevent or undo damage. Taking unmitigated damage twice will result in death. Damage received in a night will not be made known to the players.

[jjh927]

If Korina is telling the complete truth about that role PM, I'm pretty sure that would be a pretty obvious angle. But he's not.

Korina has a scum role. Maybe it does have some negative attached to being lynched but I am okay with biting the bullet right now

[Korina]

Cool, jjh is scum.

[Korina]

Literally anyone suggesting to lynch me is scum, because the rest of my ability is extremely useful for town, and only scum would want to mitigate that. Doesn’t matter when my flagbearer ability activates, it literally should only affect lynches, and at that point anyone suggesting to lynch me is guaranteed scum

[Elbirn]

First up, here's this handy part of the rules that Gamma Emerald's requested means of PM confirmation means you should all have read

Damage system: each player starts with 2 hit points. There are ways a player may take damage, as well as ways to prevent or undo damage. Taking unmitigated damage twice will result in death. Damage received in a night will not be made known to the players.

If Korina is telling the complete truth about that role PM, I'm pretty sure that would be a pretty obvious angle. But he's not.

Korina has a scum role. Maybe it does have some negative attached to being lynched but I am okay with biting the bullet right now

Dumb it down for me like I'm five cuz I dont understand the point you're trying to make

[jjh927]

The only sensible way that kind of shit would work is hurting everyone after dying

[jjh927]

Meanwhile Korina is somehow trying to push through that claiming part of a scum role makes him conftown

[Elbirn]

The only sensible way that kind of shit would work is hurting everyone after dying

Meanwhile Korina is somehow trying to push through that claiming part of a scum role makes him conftown

So flagbearer korina dying should hit everyone for 1 point of damage, I can agree with that. I don't see how that makes him scum. He never claimed anything contradictory, just said that he has no knowledge of how his flagbearer role works because its "modified", and I get that's kinda sketch but....???

[jjh927]

Sidenote: 318 is basically a scumclaim

[jjh927]

It's pretty much irrelevant though because it's not actually Korina's role

I just wanted to confirm beyond a doubt Korina was lying