Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[schadd_]

this is probably uhhh happening in the morning

[eth0s]

I also don't want to hear anything from mastina about that just being a vote for "pressure" or anything along those lines because

I'll do it tomorrow if I live.

Implies that she thinks there's a chance of a lynch happening before she returns, so her jumping on the most popular wagon of the day does not come across to me as "pressure" at all.
Just throwing that out there so she can't slide by with a comment like that next time she posts and disappears for 24+ hours again.

[jjh927]

Okay so I've decided that the shit you're all pushing sucks ass so I'm gonna get you all talking real stuff by efforting over the course of the day

I might even do a readslist with reasoning which I never do

[jjh927]

I would prefer it if you'd talk to me while I do stuff

Conversations are better than me hyperposting

[jjh927]

Me and deb were gonna break the game open together. It was gonna be wonderful. I'd set up a means of communicating in thread via crumbs nobody else would pick up on for when the PT closed and everything.

I'll start with Elbirn and Mastina, since I'll take either of them as a backup deb.


Elbirn is town. The push on a 'scumslip' is lazy af and I should know because I make lazy pushes on 'scumslips' a lot. All it achieves is a bit of pressure, which you can use to push someone and test their reactions. The thing is, it's not even close to a scumslip when he appears to be genuinely irritated at Korina. Scum would not be irritated at Korina. So unless you believe the post to be fake as well, and the idea that it could be faked emotion as well as a scumslip is contradictory due to attention to detail paid by scum when fabricating, that whole push is trash.

Furthermore, Elbirn is one of the three people in the game I am sure of that do not make the SoaS kill. It's a really weird kill. It's funny that nobody has really commented on it. The other people are me and mastina.


Mastina is town. She is disengaged but putting effort in to stay afloat. Once again, why is the push here on weird wordy shit when you can see her thought processes? The timing of that catchup blob might be jarring but it's town af. Please disregard any ill feelings you have towards that being the content we got from mastina at eod1 in lieu of real time conversation, and tell me whether that's faked for towncred and relevancy or mastina's real thought process while trying to come back into the game.

[jjh927]

Out of TL and TD, I am confident that at least one of them is scum. I voted TD earlier; at the time of voting I am still voting there, but he reacted pretty well to a bit of a push.

VOTE: TL

His hesitancy on the korina lynch just doesn't seem real or make sense at all, and looking back it's awful. So, we're going in depth of TL!scum here:

"Korina flubbed his role claim" does not equal "Korina is confirmed scum"

Even then powerlynching Korina is a bad move, and I wouldn't be surprised you're scum jjh....

VOTE: jjh927

So it begins. For both retroactivity and future reference, this is a bad vote. He can see a mislynch coming, and he wants to see if he can get on the other side of it and seem a bit more towny. Have his mislynch and get towncred by opposing it too. However, he doesn't have a good reason at all for why he would think Korina is town here- I point out this

Lying about your role and using said lies to justify why you shouldn't be lynched ABSOLUTELY equals scum

and we get these followups:

Goddamn that's an awful vote

thanks for the side of OMGUS... it tastes like blue cherry gatorade

pedit: actually yeah that's a good point but Korina is untouchable until LYLO

just in case Korina is a scum who flagbears

town

(which would be really overpowered lol)

This gets elaborated on a little here:

Let me rephrase; why would something that you can recognise as stupidly implausible influence your actions

because I believe it's much more possible that Korina is town flagbearing town... and saying Korina is scum flagbearing scum doesn't mean we're limited to two boxes of possibility.

For the record, I'm inclined to believe Korina is town flagbearing town right now.

This is weird as shit. He's claiming to be holding off on voting Korina because he is concerned about lynching a flagbearer that would hurt town. He is, at the same time, saying he believes Korina to be town. The viewpoint overall doesn't make sense; he acknowledges that I have made a good point while calling Korina scum, implying he would be willing to vote there if he did not believe Korina to be a flagbearer. This is contradicted by him saying he believes Korina to be town (flagbearing town).




But now we're on to the worst bit by far. These are sequential posts. There's quite a few so I'll spoiler them:

Spoiler: 448 to 454

I will refrain from scumreading Korina as Korina is effectively V/LA today

You've sure been refraining from scumreading Korina a lot, haven't you TL

Seems like some weak anti-bus justifications

You've sure been refraining from scumreading Korina a lot, haven't you TL

yeah because I thought Korina flubbed the role claim...

Fakeclaiming town flagbearer as a gambit is outright openwolfing though, but I don't want a hammer when Korina is still V/LA.

Here's a little compilation

I don't think the eth0s/korina interaction strongly implicates either as scum

Either way I don't think Korina is worth voting right now.

yeah this is why Korina is potentially scum... doesn't mean Korina is guiltied scum

"Korina flubbed his role claim" does not equal "Korina is confirmed scum"

Even then powerlynching Korina is a bad move, and I wouldn't be surprised you're scum jjh....

VOTE: jjh927

pedit: actually yeah that's a good point but Korina is untouchable until LYLO

Let me rephrase; why would something that you can recognise as stupidly implausible influence your actions

because I believe it's much more possible that Korina is town flagbearing town... and saying Korina is scum flagbearing scum doesn't mean we're limited to two boxes of possibility.

For the record, I'm inclined to believe Korina is town flagbearing town right now.

more points to "korina can't roleclaim properly"... skimming Korina's ISO pings me null-town

I will refrain from scumreading Korina as Korina is effectively V/LA today

I think you're forgetting "I thought Korina messed up his role claim and is still potentially a town flagbearer"

but the gambit combined with the flub means Korina is openwolfing...

Intent to vote Korina

Let's go through this: TL continues to hesitate to vote Korina for shitty reasons, still hoping he can stay off the mislynch wagon and look a bit towny about it. I call TL out on his hesitancy to lynch Korina for shitty reasons. He says he doesn't want a hammer while Korina is effectively V/LA. (For context, Korina had apparently had to buy a vpn in order to post or something, and said he wasn't gonna post any more on that day.) Then, after being thoroughly called out, TL decides he's taking too much flak for not voting Korina, and makes a big deal out of "intent to vote" which isn't really much of a thing.


Where do we go from here?
2 more votes, I make a votecount in order to prevent an accidental hammer, Korina unvotes, EP votes to L-2, Korina continues posting and after a short while, TL votes Korina to L-1. Within two posts, Korina self-hammers.

Now, while Elements tries to unvote and get rid of that L-1, in the manner that someone who was concerned about the potential for a quickhammer would, TL happily brought it to L-1 in spite of his earlier hesitation. This is because he is now on board with the mislynch and unable to get towncred for opposing it. I think if he was the kind of person to hesitate as he did before, he would also be the kind of person to continue to hesitate putting someone like Korina to L-1. The change in behaviour makes sense when attributed to a change in perceived risk/reward for scum.

I'm not ending with a summary or a conclusion. Just make sure you've read the post if you're here looking for a tldr

[eth0s]

I think your case on town mastina/elbirn is pretty shit and I dont agree with either of them in the slightest but I like your reasoning on TL. I have no idea what his scum game looks like but even by comparison of this game to my last game with town!him I will admit something feels different.

At the very least I want to see some answers from him regarding #880.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: TL

Full disclosure if TD hops on this wagon without giving me anything to work with as far as sorting him/TL, or at the very least showing us that he can apply some effort into this game I am almost certainly changing my vote to TD.

[eth0s]

And jjh, before you ask, no. I am not just going to call your reasoning on mastina/elbirn town shit and provide zero reasoning why. But I'm phone posting and about to go to bed so I'll tell you why it's shit when I'm back at my computer.

[TemporalLich]

jjh's case on me looks like it was built with gilded sandpaper...

Namely for calling me scum because I don't want scum to lolhammer someone who can't respond, and where being in the tent is pretty much death.

[TemporalLich]

and my Korina vote is because Korina couldn't possibly be town...

It's one thing to screw up a roleclaim... it's another to try to pass off a lie constructed with termite-infested wood and duct tape as a shiny new gambit... it's yet another to flail afterwards... and it's yet yet another to self-freaking hammer

[TemporalLich]

but yeah I concede that the intent to vote is way too standoffish and scum-motivated

[TemporalLich]

if you want to vote out jjh I will be on your side.

[TemporalLich]

and before you ask, I'm not in the tent so you aren't bleeding a role claim out of me just so you can nightkill me

[jjh927]

Damn that's a hell of a way to respond to a case, TL

[jjh927]

"If other people want to vote the guy who just cased me I will also vote there"

[jjh927]

If you're town I'd suggest rereading it so you can respond to the actual points I made rather than whatever you thought they were

[TemporalLich]

It's already a bad sign when you start the case with pure OMGUS don't you think?

I was unwilling to vote townflagbearer!Korina because oh god voting there would be openwolfing. And you're acting like me being uncertain is a reason to invalidate my reasoning.

I wasn't willing to powerlynch Korina, and voting someone who is V/LA for pressure makes no sense at all.

The standoffishness (how my reluctance to vote Korina is scum-motivated) is the only valid point of your case. It doesn't exactly make the case deathproof however, or even 1-shot BP for that matter.

[jjh927]

What do you consider pure omgus

[jjh927]

It looks to me like your defence there is BUZZWORD rather than accepting that there is a point behind me calling that vote awful

[TemporalLich]

What do you consider pure omgus

A vote based purely on retaliation / "your vote on me sucks and you should feel bad" / reciprocation

Basically, a vote on someone made solely because of a vote on you.

[jjh927]

So you do have a good definition of omgus

Which means you should be able to determine that this ain't it

[TemporalLich]

So you do have a good definition of omgus

Which means you should be able to determine that this ain't it

I can't exactly try to argue with what you think so sure I will concede you think you're voting me because my vote looks scum-motivated but like I said your case looks like it was built with gilded sandpaper.

... so it might not be

pure

omgus but I digress.

[jjh927]

It's already a bad sign when you start the case with pure OMGUS don't you think?

I was unwilling to vote townflagbearer!Korina because oh god voting there would be openwolfing. And you're acting like me being uncertain is a reason to invalidate my reasoning.

I wasn't willing to powerlynch Korina, and voting someone who is V/LA for pressure makes no sense at all.

The standoffishness (how my reluctance to vote Korina is scum-motivated) is the only valid point of your case. It doesn't exactly make the case deathproof however, or even 1-shot BP for that matter.

Actually the whole of this post is really off

We have:
-Buzzword instead of defence
-Somehow supporting the point I was making while misrepping said point
-Korina wasn't really V/LA, it wasn't a pressure vote, you did the weird intent to vote thing, and you voted Korina to L-1 on the next page. The inconsistency on the hesitation was the main thing I was pushing.
-Accepts a part of my case as "valid"

[Chemist1422]

but yeah I concede that the intent to vote is way too standoffish and scum-motivated

if you want to vote out jjh I will be on your side.

ummm

[jjh927]

lmao I think I missed that combination since I was somewhat distracted by him accepting one of my arguments about why he's scum