Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[jjh927]

Asking "Why do I do this as scum" is all about covering up awful play with increasing amounts of bollocks about how awful your towngame is

I would say these two sentences are very much "why do I do this as scum?"

"Why would I claim flagbearer as scum?"
"Why would I kill DEB as scum?"

Am I wrong in saying that you're arguing the former is bad but the latter is not?

There are multiple differences

I did not bring this point of discussion up. It was suggested it was advantageous for me to kill deb as scum, and I have argued against that.
There is logical basis for me not killing deb as scum, which I have argued.
Town!me is unable to kill DEB so this is actually a legitimate way of placing my alignment

[Chemist1422]

Asking "Why do I do this as scum" is all about covering up awful play with increasing amounts of bollocks about how awful your towngame is

I would say these two sentences are very much "why do I do this as scum?"

"Why would I claim flagbearer as scum?"
"Why would I kill DEB as scum?"

Am I wrong in saying that you're arguing the former is bad but the latter is not?

Given that the first we know comes from town, does that factor into your read on the second?

[jjh927]

Chemist I am downgrading you from pretty good chance of sanity to probably mostly sane

[jjh927]

The traditional "Why do I do this as scum" is uttered when someone has pointed out something incomprehensibly scummy that you just did and you're just like "Nah I wouldn't do this as scum because it's obviously incomprehensibly scummy"

[Chemist1422]

Chemist I am downgrading you from pretty good chance of sanity to probably mostly sane

That's still probably too high

The traditional "Why do I do this as scum" is uttered when someone has pointed out something incomprehensibly scummy that you just did and you're just like "Nah I wouldn't do this as scum because it's obviously incomprehensibly scummy"

I'm saying it isn't inherently scummy for someone to do a higher-reasoning version of that given that a lower-reasoning version of that came from a flipped town

[EspressoPatronum]

Asking "Why do I do this as scum" is all about covering up awful play with increasing amounts of bollocks about how awful your towngame is

I would say these two sentences are very much "why do I do this as scum?"

"Why would I claim flagbearer as scum?"
"Why would I kill DEB as scum?"

Am I wrong in saying that you're arguing the former is bad but the latter is not?

Given that the first we know comes from town, does that factor into your read on the second?

No, it doesn't. My purpose in highlighting the similarity is to show an inconsistency. See 1063

[jjh927]

What particular points in Menalque's scumcase on me do you find convincing?

His strongest point is your behaviour in twilight re Korina being scum. I see the point on framing the discussion as his next best argument.

@jjh can you link me some of your scum and town games?

I have two recent scumgames

I think in one of them mastina did an analysis of all of my other ones

[jjh927]

Do you still think it's an inconsistency or do I need to continue explaining the different circumstances?

[EspressoPatronum]

The traditional "Why do I do this as scum" is uttered when someone has pointed out something incomprehensibly scummy that you just did and you're just like "Nah I wouldn't do this as scum because it's obviously incomprehensibly scummy"

Ah, I didn't realize it's an actual mafia game term.

I'll reconsider the statements in light of this.

[jjh927]

It's not really an actual game term but I'm mostly pissed off about the phenomenon I have described because of the number of games I have played with boon/fl as of late

[jjh927]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=80094 - vengeful ghosts, my most recent, and my best scumgame, except the best parts happened in the dead thread. Me and DEB almost memed it to victory. This is probably an important read and definitely an entertaining one.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79782 - Krazy's anime upick, my next most recent, and a pretty damn good day 1 for me but in the rest of it I succumb to my lack of motivation to play scumgames.

And here's Mastina in Krazy's anime upick going over I think my entire meta

jjh as town.
Better example of jjh as town.
Still a solid example of jjh as town.
Another jjh town.
Still good jjh town.
Another good jjh as town.
Here's one of the best jjh as town.
But have another solid one.
Yet none top THE very best jjh town example.

And Contrast.
jjh as scum.
The best example of jjh as scum.
But here's another jjh scumgame.
And this one's probably the second best.

[jjh927]

It's worth noting I almost doubled the size of my main thread iso with postgame talk in vengeful ghosts if that tells you anything about how hype the dead thread shenanigans were

[jjh927]

Just reading the scum thread in that game would probably do it tbh

[Elbirn]

Sorry I realize this wasn't why you shared those links

But I think its funny that you brought up Mastina's meta breakdown in that game when, upon reading it, I found that you were scum and mastina was trying to use your meta to support her belief that you were town even though you were guiltied scum

[EspressoPatronum]

Just reading the scum thread in that game would probably do it tbh

UNVOTE:
I skimmed the vengeful ghosts game + looked at the activity overview in the games mastina linked. You're not playing the same here as in vengeful ghosts + it looks like your activity is AI.

On activity -- you're among the top 3 posters in almost all your town games, but you're roughly in the middle/bottom third on your scum games. Your activity this game suggests you're town.

[Elbirn]

Just reading the scum thread in that game would probably do it tbh

UNVOTE:
I skimmed the vengeful ghosts game + looked at the activity overview in the games mastina linked. You're not playing the same here as in vengeful ghosts + it looks like your activity is AI.

On activity -- you're among the top 3 posters in almost all your town games, but you're roughly in the middle/bottom third on your scum games. Your activity this game suggests you're town.

Sorry I realize this wasn't why you shared those links

But I think its funny that you brought up Mastina's meta breakdown in that game when, upon reading it, I found that you were scum and mastina was trying to use your meta to support her belief that you were town even though you were guiltied scum

[Adorable]

jjh was one of those players I was skeptical on because of that back and forth he had with Korina on day 1. I started to feel a little bit better about jjh when he said Espresso vs TL looked like it was tvt and I didn't think scum would say this because normally scum would just let tvt continue to be at each others throats and they won't even bother on saying this is tvt. I'll have to look back on Elbirn's posts but I did remember his play looked suspicious on day1 when he was agreeing with jjh and it looked like he was buddying jjh. If Elbirn really is town, then I think scum would be voting Elbirn since he also looks like a mislynch bait if Elbirn really is town.

[EspressoPatronum]

The traditional "Why do I do this as scum" is uttered when someone has pointed out something incomprehensibly scummy that you just did and you're just like "Nah I wouldn't do this as scum because it's obviously incomprehensibly scummy"

Ah, I didn't realize it's an actual mafia game term.

I'll reconsider the statements in light of this.

Do you still think it's an inconsistency or do I need to continue explaining the different circumstances?

It's not really an actual game term but I'm mostly pissed off about the phenomenon I have described because of the number of games I have played with boon/fl as of late

@jjh

In a general interpretation of the phrase "why would I do this as scum" (WWIDTAS), the statements are similar and would suggest an inconsistency.

Using the definition you provided, however, which looks at the context and reasons for saying WWIDTAS, the statements appear consistent. I'd suggest that while you said you didn't like WWIDTAS, you actually didn't like the reasons behind Korina using WWIDTAS. If that's correct, you're essentially using WWIDTAS as a shorthand that encompasses your dislike of their play, the reasons for said play, and the circumstances leading up to the WWIDTAS.... but that's just semantics.

Verdict:
Since you presumably made the ant-WWIDTAS using your own interpretation of WWIDTAS, I can see why you would argue Korina's WWIDTAS was bad while yours was good.

[EspressoPatronum]

Just reading the scum thread in that game would probably do it tbh

UNVOTE:
I skimmed the vengeful ghosts game + looked at the activity overview in the games mastina linked. You're not playing the same here as in vengeful ghosts + it looks like your activity is AI.

On activity -- you're among the top 3 posters in almost all your town games, but you're roughly in the middle/bottom third on your scum games. Your activity this game suggests you're town.

Sorry I realize this wasn't why you shared those links

But I think its funny that you brought up Mastina's meta breakdown in that game when, upon reading it, I found that you were scum and mastina was trying to use your meta to support her belief that you were town even though you were guiltied scum

Do you think his meta points to town!jjh or scum!jjh here?

[Elbirn]

Oh God the youngins are making up new buzzwords

Make it stop

[EspressoPatronum]

Oh God the youngins are making up new buzzwords

Make it stop

WWIDTAS? I just got tired of typing it out every time

[Elbirn]

Do you think his meta points to town!jjh or scum!jjh here?

I guess my sarcastic quoting wasn't clear

I think meta is diarreah donkey doo doo and if you use it you're a stupidhead

See also: Town-Mastina insisting Scum-JJH was town based on meta

[EspressoPatronum]

Do you think his meta points to town!jjh or scum!jjh here?

I guess my sarcastic quoting wasn't clear

I think meta is diarreah donkey doo doo and if you use it you're a stupidhead

See also: Town-Mastina insisting Scum-JJH was town based on meta

Meh, you do you. I think meta can be a valuable part of the discussion.

[Elbirn]

Its maybe worth it if you've actually played a game with the player and can identify quirks and behavioral differences

But they're immediately invalidated when you out them because then that player knows their own tells and can now modify their behavior accordingly

See also: JJH listing his town/scum games and therefore demonstrating awareness of his meta

Also: "he's posting more" is not a meta analysis worth making


Just judge people based on what they're doing in game

[schadd_]

;