Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[Vorkuta]

I'm genuinely concerned with this line of questioning but I'll bite

- why does this distancing need to happen ?

It's a decent play designed to shake off any pressure that remained off of D1 and preempt any big plays
Pick a fight with your scumbuddy and after a few pages you'll have the consensus of "either it's TvT or TvS, but NOT SvS"

- why is bailey's dying remark relevant here ?

(Even more so in a newbie game) from what I've noticed quite a few people take the dying declaration of a mislynched townie with some weight.

- why doesnt january vote me if we're distancing ?

I don't subscribe to the theory that votes = "i want to lynch".
You can be on a wagon without having a vote on it- typically it's quite obvious (in other games maybe) which wagon I'm supporting even though my votes meandering around uselessly.
Also she might want to wait until the small talk is over and the discussion escalates before using the vote for dramatic flair idk.

This thing that you've done the last three times i've played with you ^

-scumday so I decided to celebrate by growing up
-look how well it worked for me in said last game
-would you rather I turn off my brain and revert back?

There's literally no reason

Ah yes- I remember my newbie games quite well.
I think october is someone who'd like to insert a snide comment that's based on the truth.
It serves the dual purposes of playing the newbie card
-"hey I'm so not scum because there's no way I know what's going on in the scum!PT"
and genuine questioning
-"hey my scumpartner who's allegedly supposed to hold my hand and guide me through things is MIA so I might as well get a response in mainthread"

Ofc it's not "mechanically optimal" but I can totally see someone with a bit of personality making those comments both facetiously and 'seriously'.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.01

---

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Zenith

(1): tictac

Vorkuta

(1): skitter30

skitter30

(1): Vorkuta

Not Voting

(4): january, DrDolittle, Zenith, Suspicious

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-05 07:45:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[skitter30]

I'm genuinely concerned with this line of questioning but I'll bite

This line of questioning is concerning because ...

Dont do the half-assed shading, go on, flesh it out

It's a decent play designed to shake off any pressure that remained off of D1 and preempt any big plays
Pick a fight with your scumbuddy and after a few pages you'll have the consensus of "either it's TvT or TvS, but NOT SvS"

Given that she's the consensus tr outside the masons this needs to happen because ...

(Even more so in a newbie game) from what I've noticed quite a few people take the dying declaration of a mislynched townie with some weight.

A) that kinda holds for nks but doesnt usually hold for people who got lynched, people in general dont pay that attention to the lynchee's reads
B) why does bailey saying it's me mean me/january need to distance
C) i dont think bailey even said it was me at eod

-scumday so I decided to celebrate by growing up
-look how well it worked for me in said last game
-would you rather I turn off my brain and revert back?

I dont feel like this is a natural progression from the last three games.

What you decide you can't read me, i fleece you, and from there you go all in on a scumread without referencing how you can't read me?

I dont get it

Ofc it's not "mechanically optimal" but I can totally see someone with a bit of personality making those comments both facetiously and 'seriously'.

In my last newbie game my partner went awol and i went out of my way to avoid calling attention to this sort of thing in the main thread, not really sure why someone would do that tbh

[Vorkuta]

Dont do the half-assed shading, go on, flesh it out

*sighs*
I'm pretty sure it was self-implied, but fine
It's concerning because it doesn't have (or at least I can't find) the markings/intentions of "town-solvey" skitter.

Given that she's the consensus tr outside the masons this needs to happen because ...

Needing a REASON for a play?
That's BS and you know it- "I feel like we should" and "for shits and giggles" is enough incentive/motivation/justification for 99% of the players here

A) that kinda holds for nks but doesnt usually hold for people who got lynched, people in general dont pay that attention to the lynchee's reads
B) why does bailey saying it's me mean me/january need to distance
C) i dont think bailey even said it was me at eod

A- let's agree to very much disagree. It's too straightforward to NK someone simply because their reads were on point. While the 'collective feeling of guilt' of a mislynch might prompt people to honor his last wishes
B- as a contingency for if/when september flips red, you'll be as far away from her as possible and have no problems reaching the home stretch.
C- irrelevant as ^

I dont get it

Uh huh. Here are more
-I got bored of that spiel
-I think I genuinely might have something this game- not from YOU (no, you would be way too good to slip up like this

you said you missed the fawning

), but from your newbie partner.
-doing the same thing over and expecting different results is some definition of insanity
-Again: would you rather I roll over?

In my last newbie game my partner went awol and i went out of my way to avoid calling attention to this sort of thing in the main thread, not really sure why someone would do that tbh

Idk nerves? Panic? Subconscious need for other people to sympathize with plight?
I on the other hand would let everyone and their grandmothers know when/if my scum partner goes AWOL


Now for the meaty stuff, which is what I was hoping for
I don't like how the crux of your defense is "a mechanically optimal or otherwise perfect player wouldn't do any of the things" and how you're shifting the definitions. I am presenting a very plausible scenario, backed up with bits of evidence, slightly liberal assumptions, and my own personal experience.

Whereas you're basically demanding "screenshots of their scumPT" levels of evidence necessary for my points to have any validity in your eyes.
Which is a scum!skitter play

[Vorkuta]

Wtf when did I start effort wallposting

[Zenith]

@Suspicious Anything useful come from the mason PT? Normally it would probably be for the best to wait before sharing, but I'd be surprised if you aren't tonight's NK target, and with the other mason gone, might as well go ahead and share.

[skitter30]

It's concerning because it doesn't have (or at least I can't find) the markings/intentions of "town-solvey" skitter.

Because ...

That's BS and you know it- "I feel like we should" and "for shits and giggles" is enough incentive/motivation/justification for 99% of the players here

A) i disagree that 99% of players would do it for those reasons
B) but even if i concede that number, *i'm* not a player who would play that way with her partner, and i'm the other half of the team you're proposing

Why do *i* decide this is a good idea here

A- let's agree to very much disagree. It's too straightforward to NK someone simply because their reads were on point. While the 'collective feeling of guilt' of a mislynch might prompt people to honor his last wishes
B- as a contingency for if/when september flips red, you'll be as far away from her as possible and have no problems reaching the home stretch.

A) you're portraying this to be a lot more common than it actually is - i rarely see people giving that much weight to lynched town's reads, more weight is usually given to nks' reads
B) in the current gamestate i'm more likely to flip before january so uh why do i play around this scenario

-I got bored of that spiel
-I think I genuinely might have something this game- not from YOU (no, you would be way too good to slip up like this you said you missed the fawning), but from your newbie partner.
-doing the same thing over and expecting different results is some definition of insanity
-Again: would you rather I roll over?

- have a hard time seeing your trajectory on me changing so drastically in such a short timespan
- if you think you caught my newbie partner why are you voting me. This whole thing reads like you found a narrative to push so you are, not like you actually believe a me/january team
- i have a hard time believing town!you wants me lynched yesterday (or i guess today, but less so)

I don't like how the crux of your defense is "a mechanically optimal or otherwise perfect player wouldn't do any of the things" and how you're shifting the definitions. I am presenting a very plausible scenario, backed up with bits of evidence, slightly liberal assumptions, and my own personal experience.

Can you give me enough credit to play intelligently, ty.

The scenarios you're pushing are plausible, sure, but not especially likely, especially from me, and i think you know that. I dont particularly think you believe anything you're pushing here

Whereas you're basically demanding "screenshots of their scumPT" levels of evidence necessary for my points to have any validity in your eyes.
Which is a scum!skitter play

This is overinflationary rhetoric and doesnt accurately represent my position or what i'm saying

[Vorkuta]

Because ...

Because.... I've played games with town!skitter before?

Why do *i* decide this is a good idea here

I don't think you'll actually "discourage" your scumpartner- you'll just say "yeah sure whatever" and leave quite a long leash
But this is what I facetiously mean by "scumPT screenshots or else stfu"

A) you're portraying this to be a lot more common than it actually is

I think the "Bailey's last words" are a nice supporting piece of the puzzle, but isn't the main meat of my argument. But fine

@all y'all

- do/did you take Bailey's reads seriously, or was he blowing smoke up?

B) in the current gamestate i'm more likely to flip before january so uh why do i play around this scenario

Distancing works both ways so....

Like come on

trajectory

I think it was obvious that EMM was going to be a low effort game so I didn't bother trying to read you.
Cats was for the pocketing which worked out quite well IMHO.
And what was the game we had before that- JAZZ? The one where I rolled mason and you rolled IC?

For completeness sake- there are games where I try to behave and pocket papa leaf, there are games where I ignore his existence, and there are games where I hypertunnel the shit out of him accusing him of NKing his own scum partner.
And various stages of "between".
I'd ask for the same "give me enough credit" from you to stop assuming that I'm a 1 trick pony with regards to good players.

why are you voting me

Because september offered to bus you in the first post of the day and I want to see if there's going to be a follow up. Also I tried her yesterday- no takers.

and i think you know that

My push is on October first- you're just the one engaging/doing the heavy lifting, especially considering you started the day off with a vote on me. I'll put Septmember through the slaughterhouse when she decides to comment in this spectacle, but it's also a demonstration for the remainder of the townies that my case is legitimate and I'm not simply blowing smoke out of my backside.

This is overinflationary rhetoric and doesnt accurately represent my position or what i'm saying

Colorful? Yes, but I took this liberty to ensure that the point wouldn't be lost in the wall of text.
Misrepresantative? Absolutely not. Every response of yours has been some iteration of "scum!skitt wouldn't do that- your job to prove otherwise" when we both know your scum!range is quite infinite and even may in fact contain mechanically suboptimal plays, especially with a newbie partner,


And if we're taking votes seriously, the one you have parked on me is garbage and unjustified.
I'd love to 180 and see what you're like on the offensive sometime soon

[january]

{jan/skitter}

out of curiosity, how much “coaching” between mafia members usually occurs in the mafia chat?

huh- CJ being december's hypo!scum partner would explain this comment- there's a night/day difference between CJ's and skitters level of..... 'involvement' in the game.

can ceejay be prodded it's been almost 48 hours

reading between the lines "can I get a better scum partner PLEASE???"

And the kicker

and i’d like to at least give skitter a chance to play - can we not vote her today pls

"hey now that I've gotten a really cool scum partner can we PLEASE not lynche her? kthnx"

And who knows what plan of action they've decided on in their scumPT but "hey lets distance and stir up a bit of drama for show" sounds alright, especially considering bailey's "dying remark" was "its skitter- vork u suk btw"

omgus

VOTE: Skitter

this reads very much like confirmation bias - would you like to reread what you posted and think about if there's an explanation for me doing that as town too?

because i could also just find a bunch of your lines and say "this is what his secret scum message is" lol

[january]

-"hey my scumpartner who's allegedly supposed to hold my hand and guide me through things is MIA so I might as well get a response in mainthread"

excuse me what makes you think i need someone to hold my hand i am more than capable of towntelling on my own

[january]

i mean

you can choose to believe me or not but i don't see why i would put so much effort into calling out a scumpartner for being inactive... i could easily rant to someone outside the game and like... not call attention to it here

is there any other reason you scumread skitter or is it just "i want to say they're partners so i'm going to find a bunch of quotes and remove the context that shows that january had a reason to say them. and then use them as proof that they're partners"

[january]

oh also pretty sure your entire point is null since i wanted skitter lynched before bailey died

and besides, nobody ever listens to people's dying fosses unless they're clears - at least in the games of mafia i've played. i've nailed mafia on d1 and gotten lynched and not a single person even looked at my reads. seems like you're just stretching everywhere lol are you elastic or something

but anyways i appreciate you voting the person you think i'm bussing instead of me. thanks!

[january]

- why doesnt january vote me if we're distancing ?

VOTE: skitter30

[january]

*
sorry that was the wrong smiley it looks actually happy lol

[skitter30]

- why doesnt january vote me if we're distancing ?

VOTE: skitter30

I'd much rather vork today

[skitter30]

January, why am i scum?

[Zenith]

A) you're portraying this to be a lot more common than it actually is - i rarely see people giving that much weight to lynched town's reads, more weight is usually given to nks' reads

I can see how it could make sense to put more weight on the NK reads. Because why did scum choose that player for death, maybe they were onto something?

Though in this particular game I doubt there will be much to read into NK motivations, beyond not wanting to bring confirmed masons into endgame. Whether the masons were onto something or not, they seem to be the most likely NK target.

[Vorkuta]

about if there's an explanation

-burden of proof shifting is icky
-I already emphasized around 50 times about how said choice phrases and more are more likely to come from a scum!november than a town!november

i am more than capable of towntelling on my own

every little bit helps

you can choose to believe me or not

eh.... meh..... *scratches head*
I got nothing but "we'll see" in response to that

any other reason

find me a single person who has EVER had a single (non-mechanical) valid reason to scum!read skitter.
shit's impossible yo

and not a single person even looked at my reads

I too can do statistics and find games where that happened and it didn't happen.
Either way, bailey's dying declaration is not the crux of my read, more like a convenient detail that I'm choosing to incorporate into my narrative.

lol are you elastic or something

why yes in fact I can

do the splits

touch my toes

thanks

read skitter's sig about leaving skitter in Lylo- just covering my bases

oh also pretty sure your entire point is null

imma reply to this in my next post for emphasis

[Zenith]

This really sucks. Since suspicious didn't actually claim mason, I was hoping that maybe it was done kind of trap set by the tracker or something. We've got no real PRs, though the masons would have been useful for PoE in endgame if they hadn't been outed D1. Then there's no real useful info to glean from the NKs. All we really have to go on is the back and forth between players, which has been confusing me. I mean who is october and september? Are we just referring to january as any other month for some reason? Id's it some kind of weird code? And to top it all off, I voted for long night to give more recovery time, but I'm only slightly better.. I feel kinda useless here. Probably need to re-read the game and ISO's, but I get the feeling that it won't help ease my general confusion.

What do you guys do when you get stuck, having difficulty forming decent reads?

[Vorkuta]

oh also pretty sure your entire point is null

*ahem*

I pretty much had my eyes on skitter the whole time. Sure I may have taken narrative liberties to provoke skitter, but now I have a much more solid read on her as a result, and the resulting discourse helped me EVOLVE my read on her (I'm sorry I dragged december's name through the mud

but I'm actually not sorry

) and actually find concrete points that I dislike.
I might even call it a reaction test, but I know you'll just read the 2 words by themselves and blow them out of proportion completely disregarding the nuance and elegance of my play.

My final verdict on this: If this is town!skitter, I would be very dissapointed. The more likely option is that this is scum!skitter.

[Zenith]

You make it sound like I shouldn't even try to read skitter, like I should just hope that she is town because scum skitter sounds scary.

[Vorkuta]

I mean who is october and september?

*looks at the player names*
they must refer to Zenith and tictac respectively

/s

Are we

is vork

just referring to january as any other month for some reason?

FTFY (as I'm the only doing it IIRC) and yes.

Spoiler:

the reason is that I can't actually spell january when I dont have autocorrect. Is there an 'r' in the middle? Janruary? January? same with febuary? february? why is it so inconsistent ffs. All 4 of these words/spellings strike me as weird
but OCTOBER- now that's a nice and simple month to spell

Also jan and jam are too confusing.
Ok if we're being serious I like giving people nicknames and I'm trying to see which month 'sticks' better.

it some kind of weird code?

I feel kinda useless here

townspew attempt noticed and acknowledged

What do you guys do when you get stuck, having difficulty forming decent reads?

I give you the 3 "sh"s
Whenever I'm stuck in a game, I either shitpost, sheep, or shut up and pray night actions make the game easier

[Vorkuta]

You make it sound like I shouldn't even try to read skitter, like I should just hope that she is town because scum skitter sounds scary.

Correct
Excellent

I'm so glad we're on the same page.

There are many people who brag about such abilities/skills (particularly in their sigs), but IMHO skitter is someone who's probably actually legitimately deserved phrases like these thrown her way

[skitter30]

A) you're portraying this to be a lot more common than it actually is - i rarely see people giving that much weight to lynched town's reads, more weight is usually given to nks' reads

I can see how it could make sense to put more weight on the NK reads. Because why did scum choose that player for death, maybe they were onto something?

Though in this particular game I doubt there will be much to read into NK motivations, beyond not wanting to bring confirmed masons into endgame. Whether the masons were onto something or not, they seem to be the most likely NK target.

i agree with your point, but this isn't quite the point i was making

living townies tend not to listen to dead townies' reads, i find. as you pointed out, if anything, they might listen to a townie who got nk'd - after all, why did scum nk them?

i don't find that people listen to a lynched townie's reads that often

that's why i find vork's suggestion - that me/january are deliberately distancing in order to make sure people don't listen to bailey going after me (which i'm not actually, like, sure he's done) to be mildly ridiculous

[skitter30]

find me a single person who has EVER had a single (non-mechanical) valid reason to scum!read skitter.
shit's impossible yo

stop building me up to be some sort of boogeyman, this isn't true