Newbie 1963 - Game Over

[Uncrowned]

...is it just me or does my ISO already explain half this stuff? I've given reasons for my votes, guys. Pls look. ):

[Uncrowned]

Sorry if I'm seeming like a dick in the above post, I'm just getting kinda frustrated since I feel like I've touched on this stuff, and people have already gotten on me for being "over-explainy" so repeating myself is leaning back into that. Oh well.

[JacksonVirgo]

Just checked Fuz ISO and I think I would have struggled if she hit f5; she didn't really engage with Uncr on any of the questions, her read on Eth0s could have come from s/s pretty easily; she never mentioned JV. Perfect partner equity with 3/3 slots.

A part of me wants to ask Uncrowned why he voted Fuz. His read trajectory checks out. Another part of me wants to ask JV why they voted Fuz. They explained it with the vote and (apparently?) accidentally hammered early. We probably could have let the phase run a little longer but I kinda agree with Fishy's take there; always hammer the "lol u can't prove I'm scum lol haha lol prove it" posts esp. when they haven't like really played in earnest

I'm actually getting slightly upset that Gyro was lynched d1 the more I reread d1 that was a lazy town ISO but it was town and often those players try to get spicy later in the game (see: me in large theme games) THANKS FOR LISTENING

I voted Fuz mainly because they said they'd vote themselves which was weird, and I didn't realize it was hammer so quick.

I am seriously losing motivation for this game and I feel that I might as well just vote up Eth0s or Uncrowned because they're practically lock-scum to me and there is little doubt in my mind that it will change.

[the worst]

Gyro Zeppeli - doesn't give a fuck how he's perceived which gives me a bit of pause. mentality is probably town tho. fwiw I've found his posts heavily relatable and think they probably come from a solving mindset who isn't super invested/doesn't feel the need to be townread, rather than a scum mindset who wants to force an agenda but post little enough that he's not mislynched. his takes haven't been popular. they've gone against the grain. but ngl they've aligned more with how I've been seeing things. looks like a dude who's been spending more time looking for scum than sitting on the thread tryna be townread; this is prolly town most of the time.

Actually rq either of you have any feelings about this? I'm being vain ik but I thought it was a p hot take and no one really reevaluated Gyro's alignment at all late d1


pedit: I'm aware your ISO already explains it. I just said your ISO explains it. :< I'm trying my best ok !!!! the scum in {you, jv} has played well and hasn't been put into a position where they've kinda been 'exposed' so I'm trying my best to work with what we got!

[JacksonVirgo]

Sorry if I'm seeming like a dick in the above post, I'm just getting kinda frustrated since I feel like I've touched on this stuff, and people have already gotten on me for being "over-explainy" so repeating myself is leaning back into that. Oh well.

I'm the same yet you kept ignoring the post in which I feel I explained it quite well

[the worst]

@JV, understand motivation is tough. Sorry for putting you through the ringer. I can tell from your posting today that you've settled on Uncr/Eth0s and there's actually really not much you're saying that doesn't 'make sense'; it's just that I want to cross my ts and dot my is.

if you're feeling burned out engaging with Uncrowned, if/when you have time, would you mind throwing down some thoughts on the gardenia/Eth0s slot? I'm kinda starting to form a pretty strong read on it via rereading in Uncrowned's ISO and I'd be interested to see where your head is.

[JacksonVirgo]

Gyro Zeppeli - doesn't give a fuck how he's perceived which gives me a bit of pause. mentality is probably town tho. fwiw I've found his posts heavily relatable and think they probably come from a solving mindset who isn't super invested/doesn't feel the need to be townread, rather than a scum mindset who wants to force an agenda but post little enough that he's not mislynched. his takes haven't been popular. they've gone against the grain. but ngl they've aligned more with how I've been seeing things. looks like a dude who's been spending more time looking for scum than sitting on the thread tryna be townread; this is prolly town most of the time.

Actually rq either of you have any feelings about this? I'm being vain ik but I thought it was a p hot take and no one really reevaluated Gyro's alignment at all late d1


pedit: I'm aware your ISO already explains it. I just said your ISO explains it. :< I'm trying my best ok !!!! the scum in {you, jv} has played well and hasn't been put into a position where they've kinda been 'exposed' so I'm trying my best to work with what we got!

I don't know what feelings I am supposed to have for that quote.

[the worst]

just like did you see it / did it pique your interest / did you reevaluate Gyro towards the end of d1 much?

I know it was a compromise wagon and the l-1/lolhammer happened via two conftown but it's something to work on which isn't endlessly casing you/Uncrowned in circles.

[Uncrowned]

Gyro Zeppeli - doesn't give a fuck how he's perceived which gives me a bit of pause. mentality is probably town tho. fwiw I've found his posts heavily relatable and think they probably come from a solving mindset who isn't super invested/doesn't feel the need to be townread, rather than a scum mindset who wants to force an agenda but post little enough that he's not mislynched. his takes haven't been popular. they've gone against the grain. but ngl they've aligned more with how I've been seeing things. looks like a dude who's been spending more time looking for scum than sitting on the thread tryna be townread; this is prolly town most of the time.

Actually rq either of you have any feelings about this? I'm being vain ik but I thought it was a p hot take and no one really reevaluated Gyro's alignment at all late d1


pedit: I'm aware your ISO already explains it. I just said your ISO explains it. :< I'm trying my best ok !!!! the scum in {you, jv} has played well and hasn't been put into a position where they've kinda been 'exposed' so I'm trying my best to work with what we got!

When I saw that post, I saw your point to an extent but I wasn't convinced. The only posts I liked from him were 468and 581 but I wanted more, which is why I wanted the phase to keep going. Other than that, what I saw from him was either unrelated or just random, such as 140 242 and 252 which were some examples of what I thought wasn't helpful.

[Uncrowned]

Sorry if I'm seeming like a dick in the above post, I'm just getting kinda frustrated since I feel like I've touched on this stuff, and people have already gotten on me for being "over-explainy" so repeating myself is leaning back into that. Oh well.

I'm the same yet you kept ignoring the post in which I feel I explained it quite well

Which one, exactly? On a lot of them I was just following up on missed posts or things I don't think really got touched upon enough to make me satisfied with the answer.

[JacksonVirgo]

@JV, understand motivation is tough. Sorry for putting you through the ringer. I can tell from your posting today that you've settled on Uncr/Eth0s and there's actually really not much you're saying that doesn't 'make sense'; it's just that I want to cross my ts and dot my is.

if you're feeling burned out engaging with Uncrowned, if/when you have time, would you mind throwing down some thoughts on the gardenia/Eth0s slot? I'm kinda starting to form a pretty strong read on it via rereading in Uncrowned's ISO and I'd be interested to see where your head is.

I am going to try and get some rest, take some pills for my headache and calm down. I will likely get back to you around midday tomorrow, just please don't vote until I get back. Because regardless if you trust me or not, a hammer without me is a scum's hammer considering this is LyLo.

Also what you said about Gyro was actually pretty accurate, and in hindsight that should have been an obvious mislynch but it seemed to everybody as a safe lynch and we missed that and popped em anyway.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm not criticizing your reads, man. I've been dead wrong on both of mine, them being Gyro and Fuz.

I'm pointing out the fact that you've swung from Point A to Point B numerous times with no rhyme or reason. It seems out of character for someone who at one stage of the game was set on FF being scum. The fact that you became so passive and swingy gives me reason to believe you're scum.

OH, I understand where you're coming from now I think. Now that it's LyLo I will probably stop trying to bait reads on people however as soon as that cop claim popped up I seriously read that as a bluff and thus I went on pretending it wasn't until FF started seriously pressuring me from my pov so I passively popped my read out and apparently it information I shouldn't of had but since they were pushing me it was goddamn obvious. Then that weird PR claim popped from ducky.

I've been swingy because I've been trying to get reads. My base reads have stayed the same majority of the time I feel, correct me if I am wrong

Regarding the swinginess of my votes, this was my reasoning I believe. I didn't actually read it through properly so I might have quoted the wrong thing but I am tired so I am going to sleep. If you have any questions, just post 'em and I will get to them in one fell swoop if I can.

[the worst]

Other than when you considered pushing Mari for a minute was there another point d1 where you considered voting another slot for pressure?

The standard applied between gard vs. Mari in your readlist is playing on my mind a bit. If you remember d1 well, were you happy to kinda just let Gard keep doing her thing? / were you satisfied with Mari's answers e.g. below?

^ I'm sorry but that rubbed me the wrong way. My vote was a random vote -

I don't want to be put into a wagon.

VOTE: Marionette because you're still the person

I want to talk to the most.

Bolded- why dont you wanna be on a wagon? How are you going to get a read off him without that pressure.

Italics- This is a tactic that new scum often uses because it makes it look like you are being active and are making a pressure push, but you are basically naked voting that slot and saying that you want them to post, which is why you voted them which defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place because now the guy knows why you are voitng him and how to change.

But until then your vote is being used, but in a way that is not likely to do any damage at all.

I agree here in regards to the wagon and vote usage, even if the pressure was being applied on me it's still beneficial to town as we're seeing how people react.

I think Mari is another one of those "easy votes" that I'm not willing to make just yet. That's the second time I've noticed Garden making one of these (the first was on Fish at the start of the game). Would like more of an explanation on that if you could, Garden.

Even though Mari's behaviour has been odd to me, it was only in a couple of posts. Not enough to go off of yet. I'd prefer our votes pressure someone who we know is around and will give their thoughts.

@Uncrowned; Explanation: But your vote is on Gyro? But seriously, I don't see things like that. For example, if you look at my FF vote, I voted him to try and be funny cause he swung at me like 3 times. For Mari, it was just me saying "hey, will you come back and maybe answer my question?" I don't think it makes sense to analyse my votes without looking at the context behind them.

@Datisi and everyone; gard/garden/whatever abbreviation of my name is fine! Or you can call me...GD

Okay, I can see that. I just found your votes on them to be interesting.

As for my vote on Gyro, I've stayed consistent with that. At first, it was RVS. I've kept it on him since then due to his lack of helping town from my point of view. Mari was next in line, but I'll wait for a replacement, and bug is at least formulating a defense and giving his viewpoints now. I don't like how much pressuring it took for him to reach that point, but that might just amount to being new.

I haven't finished deep diving the rest of your ISO (I laid down and now I can't get up being old is fun) but it feels like you kinda give her a free pass in this exchange. Just wondering if you could expand a bit on where your mind was at?

I also like how the worst speaks althought he could just be sucking on a nobs to make us happy while being a secretscumbag

I forgot how spectacular this post was

[the worst]

@JV take care of yourself. Catch ya tomorrow.
Also nobody's lolvoting here. I won't push this to 7 days but I definitely wanna make the scums squirm. Lylo is a lot but it is very fun imo, don't stress yourself out if you can avoid it.

[JacksonVirgo]

The base reads were at the beginning FF, until the mason drop and now it's been consistently yourself and Eth0s maybe with some change here and there because it's a dynamic game. But I have indeed said this already so yep..



Nightio, hope you both have a good night.

[Uncrowned]

Oh, that? I made a post on why that's not true, I don't want to keep talking about that lol

[the worst]

Respect circumstance re 150, rn I'm largely curious how you found gard's slot later in d1 - you mostly talked about her shortly after your readlist.

sorry if it felt like I was asking you to repeat yourself again; I'm trying to focus more on how your reads evolved later in d1.

[Uncrowned]

@TheWorst

The way I've been operating this game is trying to weigh a slots Townie moves against their Scum moves. I kind of explained that thought process with Gyro, where I liked some of his stuff, but I disliked more of it.

With Gardenia, it was the same thing but in reverse. I didn't like her votes and as I said, I saw it as opportunistic play. However, her explanations were DECENT (not great, because they seemed like potential cop out sort of answers imo) but she had done other things prior to that, such as her post 150 that I thought were okay. Between her and Mari, I still wanted more out of Mari, and between Gard and Gyro, I still wanted more out of Gyro.

I did let her off a little easy since at that point I was still playing sorta passive, i'll admit.

[Uncrowned]

Later in D1 I can't recall perfectly, if I'm being honest. I remember Bugspray and Gard interacting, but it was short-lived and I don't remember it really being followed up on by anybody. If anything, the only takeaway I have from it besides Gardenia's defense against Bugspray being relatively chill was that Bugspray was the NK that night. However, Bugspray had targeted a few people at that point including myself at one stage I believe, so I'm not sure that gives us anything to work with.

[the worst]

You know what? I think they were killed n1 to set up Fishy. They were kinda obvtown towards the end but that's not quite enough reason to kill 'em; I'm all in. I think the scumteam probably considered that Fishy would kill bugs.

I just can't think of anything else. Late bugs ISO mostly interacts w masons and they didn't make a tonne of noise about reads for the most part.

Legit think Fishy's sod2 intuition might have been right.

[the worst]

Re. You/gard interactions d1, Uncrowned, I'll need to think on it. Get some rest, have a good night.

[Micc]

Votecount 3.01

Not Voting (5) -

Uncrowned, JacksonVirgo, eth0s, the worst, Formerfish

With 5 players alive it takes 3 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 3 is in (expired on 2019-11-18 23:50:00).

[the worst]

Also, Fish is at L-2. Not a fan of that naked vote.

This could be scum shading Gyro (nakedvoter) and the post is defs made at the expense of engaging with Gyro on the vote
It could just be town voting a scumread who's pushing a townread.
not towny but not diabolical.
┐(´д｀)┌

You're chopping and changing a lot, I'm not sure what to make of you.

How so? I believe I've been dead set on TvS FF and SvS Gyro/FF for a while. Have I not made that clear enough?

The Fish vote, unvote, and then revote.

Saying Teacher could take FF"s role in the SvS teams you have listed, and then taking it back a few posts later.

Could just be mistakes or reevaluating, which is fine. I'm pointing it out because it's happened two times in quick succession.

Your TvS and SvS have been consistent, I wasn't referencing those.

These kinds of exchanges w JV are super interesting. I kinda think the 1v1 we've seen today has been brewing since d1; assuming Uncrowned is town for a moment he can see a kind of inconsistency in JV's posting which he's calling attention to but *still* not pushing over Gyro.

The conversation is kinda riddled with misunderstanding tho. There's a conclusion to be reached, this hasn't been a conversation about alignments, just clarifying what each other is saying.

I don't get these two parts. Gyro has been one of the least active players in the game and has provided no insight and made only naked votes. Fish, even if you don't agree with his playstyle, has pressured other players into giving explanations and has made some connections that seem feasible. I think at best Gyro can only be put into the null category due to lack of useful activity. I'm still susp of him though.

Also, where am I on this list?

This kinda think is interesting. I don't think it's like a scum perspective slip necessarily but it is a continuation of a pattern which in a broader context lead to Gyro's ML.

The sentiment here is "you shouldn't townread gyro but you could nullread him but I'm not considering that alignment indicative from you, and will continue to vote Gyro because I suspect him"

Ultimately this increases gyro's lynchability but is still not a conversation about trying to check the Gyro read. something like "oh what scumhunting are you seeing from gyro?" tells you more abt both bugs + Gyro in this situation

Quizzing where he's at on the readlist ~might~ point to a mindset which is pretty aware of how it's being perceived and is anxious to gauge perceptions; I think critiquing a read then asking how his slot is being perceived could be coming from a place of trying to look good while not diving deeper into their read discrepancy on Gyro could be indicative of trying to cruise through to the mislynch.

again not towny but not diabolical; kinda wish this conversation went deeper but I can see some scum equity here.

[the worst]

I don't think Gyro has helped town much, I liked when he asked for Datisi's explanation of why he thought Bug was scum, since that was encouraging discussion and progressing the game, but that's about it.

There's a fair bit I could talk about wrt this post but it just ends conveniently on voting Gyro for reasons which are kinda policyish; they're fine but it doesn't reevaluate other slots (or even Gyro really) - the "I liked x but he could still be scum" kinda rings a similar bell to "I think y is scum, but I could be wrong...." which might be tmi but it's not heavily tmi, kinda same with:

He's not clear scum to me by any means, but I've got more suspicion to him than I do to others.

I'm still just finding it a bit jarring that out of the other slots he's got issues with (JV odd voting pattern, Fuz doing like nothing) that he just left his vote on Gyro for the entire phase. It's fine and maybe not totally scum indicative but it is kinda underwhelming; shifting votes around for pressure and keeping your reads a little intangible can do so much for gamestate at the expense of being townread/slipping under the radar.

On the flipside having stable reads and finding reasons to keep pushing the same slots which are consensus (whether you started the wagon or not) is a great way to slip under the radar

I think uncrowned has admitted his approach has been kinda under the radar so I suppose I'm just qualifying that for myself


Shifting into d2 I believe:

Sadly hunting for mislynches / town by gamestate isolation ("they have no allies itt therefore they're likely town") doesn't really work after that tell has been discussed in a game. Gyro was that townie this game. We're gonna need to get more creative.

I kinda follow you, but I still think it could be a factor? There's something about the pressure on FF that I'm not liking, especially from Fuz, since it's the first time she's coming out to say anything with substance against another player. Prior to this, she's only:

-Said you seem reliable.
-Voted on Gyro (second to last vote)

To me that seems like a reaction based playstyle that's giving me opportunistic vibes, since she only seems to jump in when something has already become somewhat of a consensus among the group (your slot receiving lots of towncred, Gyro picking up votes, and now the pressure on FF).

The issue with the pressure on FF might be tmi/scum motivated; I didn't personally feel like the gamestate made FF feel like scum (that being said, I was championing that so idk) - he starts off the Fuz shading but there's a lack of accompanying vote or like a hard push. Just a statement of why she could be scum.

[the worst]

The reason I didn't bring up JV in 719 is because he's held the same stance on FF for a while now, it's more consistent than Fuz who seems happy to join in on things once other people have brought them up. That's how I'm seeing things atm.

Given Uncrowned is concerned about the sod2 pressure on FF meaning FF might be a mislynch I'm kinda concerned he is giving JV a free pass here - this comes after his and their interaction d1 with the vote pivot where uncrowned was like "hey!!--oh ok" - I think I'll have a better sense of their interactions when I've done JV as well.

problem w this is JV is being completely earnest and that still doesn't tell me anything further abt his alignment

I think JV is being honest, but I also think he's wrong. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just say it's an incorrect read.

I'm interested in Fuz's response to what I said about her, and also want to see what Eth0s has to say about the game. That slot has also been pretty passive iirc.

This could also p easily be s/s is all - the eth0s call-out is pretty casual and isn't really accompanied by any pressure or call to action; very much a "hey eth0s you should do something". Kinda comes from town trying to get a nullslot or scum coaching scum equally often. It is a bit interesting he's shading Fuz and letting eth0s slide but still hasn't thrown down a vote. Fuz ignored questions directed right @ her and didn't really play the game but eth0s was a firm lurkslot. This isn't totally a doublestandard and makes sense with Uncrowned's read trajectory so could be coincidental but worth noting he's pushing another nullslot over eth0s.