Newbie 1972 | Game Over

[Karnage]

Vote Count 1.13

Thomth (2) ~

LoserdudeOG, geraintm

Zoomie8432 (2) ~

Uncrowned, the worst

LoserdudeOG (2) ~

Thomth, NaCl

NaCl (1) ~

Creature

Not voting (2) ~

Arkias, Zoomie8432

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2019-12-15 18:22:46)

Mod Notes

geraintm is V/LA on weekends

Arkias is V/LA through Friday Dec 13th

Replacing thomth...

[the worst]

Not sure why my post is that small. Also, the arguement that this is a newbie game and that voting to L-1 like that is putting someone far to much in risk of being hammered is very fair. I will remember that.

Do you mean Thomth?

I don't really like his playstyle and wouldn't mind him as a policy lynch, tbh. I feel like it's anti-town.

I'm generally of the belief that that sort of thing can wait until D2 though, or at least late into the D1 phase once we've gotten more discussion going.

To be honest I don't like my playstyle either it goes agaisnt the nature of this game and is way to unconventional to be fun. The game freaks me out and confuses me. I like the game though.

VOTE: faustiv

? Huh, why these and uncrowned vote for faustiv? I’d rather the pressure be kept on thomth at this stage

To be honest, I literally just wanted to throw a RVS vote on the worst and I did not want the fact that my vote would bring them to L-1 to stop me from doing that.

So, to finally answer that question that was posed earlier.

My opinion of Loserdude so far is that he really hasn't... dome much? Reading his posts in ISO just make it seem a lot like he's typed, but really hasn't contributed much. I don't have much of a read on him, NACL, since he's pretty forgettable and head down.

Tomth is the weirder one of the two, for sure.

I disagree ldOG has contributed and I would say he has contributed more then you have. I think what you are actually saying though is that you are not getting anything out of his posts which is fair.

These all feel like townie posts to me. He doesn't seem to have an agenda and tonally he reads as town to me. He didn't seem to care how he was perceived and the L-1 vote was something I think got taken out of proportion and was used to shade him

just as an example - what do you think of the way uncrowned townreads thomth here?
i've spoken a bit about it, because i think he's realised he should be townreading thomth but he is kinda struggling to actually justify the read

does it read as sincere to you? do you agree with my impression?

[the worst]

Vote count will go here

i was so sure this one was mine. the fuck.

[the worst]

@zoomie if you're not sure where to start, work on these articles.
particularly the last two are real handy for like, "things to do in forum mafia"

Spoiler:

]

Introduction and Tips

Here are some helpful links (a lot of them from our helpful wiki):

-> Forum Rules and Guidelines
-> The Glossary
-> Commonly Used Abbreviations
-> The Newbie Guide
-> Articles on How to Play Well (be sure to check the dates these were written/updated, as good advice changes over time)

Key Concepts and Tips

Activity

Try to check in at least once a day.

Besides the activity requirements listed in Plotinus' original post, it's just necessary for a fun and healthy game that everyone

plays

. If you post very rarely, or only post a little bit at a time, you may get scumread for lurking. Even if you are not scumread for it, what's the fun in playing a game where multiple people are hardly participating?

Site Meta

Meta is the description of how people on Mafiascum like to play mafia. Things can be different on other online mafia sites, or if you play IRL, so it's good to know what's expected of you on this site. These aren't "rules", per se, but if you don't follow these guidelines it is likely things will go poorly for you on MS. Some examples are...

Random Voting Stage (RVS)

Games on MafiaScum almost always begin with what we call the Random Voting Stage (RVS). At this point in the game, we are in a low information game state (except the mafia, which know everyone’s alignment). As a way to provoke reaction, start a discussion, and try to determine alignment, people will usually vote for non-serious reasons. As the discussion progresses, we will eventually get the game moving and progress out of RVS.

Voting, L-x, and Hammers

L-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from a lynch. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at L-1 (1 vote away from a lynch) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that players lynch. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to lynch (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so. You may also see L-2 and L-3 (2 votes away from a lynch and 3 votes away from a lynch, respectively).

Before you hammer a player, state your intent to hammer (usually done in bold) and ask the player to claim their role. This is done to prevent power roles from being lynched, and can sometimes get Mafia-aligned players to be caught (via counter claiming). It's best to then allow other players to react and discuss the claim before hammering.

Claiming Your Role

It is almost always best to not claim your role unless you are at L-1 and have been asked to claim as part of an “intent to hammer.” This is because, as a town power role (“PR”), if you out prematurely, you are likely to be night-killed (“NK’d”). As a Vanilla Townie (“VT”), claiming early helps the mafia team narrow down the setup and possible PR candidates. An exception to this would be if a mafia player claimed your role, claiming early to counter the false claim (“CC”) would out the mafia player, and would be a benefit to the town.

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting lynched, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counter claiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get lynched for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

LyLo

LyLo is the shortened representation of “lynch or lose.” LyLo in the Newbie Queue is when there are 3 remaining players, 2 of which are town and 1 is mafia; or when there are 5 remaining players, 3 of which are town and 2 are mafia. It is important in these situations that the town aligned players do not carelessly vote like is done during RVS or early days, as the mafia player(s) can organize and instantly provide the necessary votes to lynch (“quickhammer”) and win the game.

Conclusion

Mafia is hard!

As town, it can be hard to figure things out, and stressful when people think you're scum.

That's okay!

Just share your thoughts on who you think is scum as they come to you, and don't be afraid to change your mind. As scum, it can be hard to lie convincingly, and stressful when people think you're scum. Don't let that scare you! Try to think of what you would post if you were town, and don't be afraid to "change your mind".

This is a game.

Have fun!

[Uncrowned]

I can't accurately read TW's alignment but I get the feeling he's subtly trying to shade me and seeing what slots it can stick with

[Uncrowned]

I need to go back and see if I can find other instances of it but I'm pretty sure he's attempted it with both geraintm and Creature as well.

[NaCl]

Okay, my thoughts on things.

People have shifted a bit, but I'm more or less in the same position.

My townreads from top to bottom are this:

Creature
Thomth
Arkias
Uncrowned
The Worst
everyone else

Creature is mostly a meta thing. In a previous game of mine, my scumpartner killed him because she said he was pretty easy to tell if he's town, and my feeling is that he's town. I'm going to assume he's not playing crazy mind games.
Thomth I've discussed before, nothing to add here.
Arkias I'm liking more after he unvoted. I don't think that he would need to reconsider so quickly as scum, and could keep his vote there if he needed to think of his next possible target, or moving it to someone else if he had one in mind.
Uncrowned, I liked him initially, but I haven't really been looking too much into his recent posts, I need to revisit him.
The Worst is someone who I also liked initially, but I'm somewhat put off by his excessive helping of newbies. I think it's possible that it's a thing to subtly improve their opinion of him. It's not necessarily scummy, though, as this is a newbie game. TW, do you have a town game where you do this you could link to?

Now, among the others. I mostly feel like both Ldog and Geraintm were angling for an easy lynch on Thomth. And Zoomie hasn't really done anything, in my opinion. I would be okay to lynch Zoomie right now, but at the moment I'm not really too enthusiastic right now. I'm going to look back Geraintm in the morning and evaluate if I should be moving my vote there instead of Ldog, I'm not really sure and I'm kind of tired right now.

Ldog, could you respond to 259?

Now, let's look at the votes and positions. For this, I'm going to assume my 2 top townreads (Creature and Thomth) are town.
I would love to say that scum is in those 3 people I'm most suspicious of, but I don't feel too strong about it.
I do 100% think that there is scum that was on the Thomth wagon. I think it's most likely 1, but possibly 2 (if it's 2, that wouldn't necessarily mean it's Geraintm and Ldog, Arkias could be there and it would explain the unvote).
I also think there is something going on with Uncrowned and TW and it's possible there's scum in there, but at most 1. I really need to look at them again, though. I think they're both being moderately townread, and it would not benefit a scum Uncrowned to go and try to discredit his scum partner in such a situation.
Zoomie is hard to read and could really be scum with anyone of my suspects, though.

[the worst]

I can't accurately read TW's alignment but I get the feeling he's subtly trying to shade me and seeing what slots it can stick with

I need to go back and see if I can find other instances of it but I'm pretty sure he's attempted it with both geraintm and Creature as well.

Don't forget this. Very interested in seeing what's causing it.

[the worst]

Arkias I'm liking more after he unvoted. I don't think that he would need to reconsider so quickly as scum, and could keep his vote there if he needed to think of his next possible target, or moving it to someone else if he had one in mind.

How would you feel if I said I distinctly scum read the fact that he unvoted without knowing where to go next? Town are looking for two aligned mafia people to lynch. Newbscum basically just need town to mislynch itself (unless they're comfortable controlling the gamestate but I'm gonna take a punt and say Arkias doesn't seem like the high level manipulation type). This often manifests itself in not being sure where to vote next.

On the contrary newbtown have other tendencies (e.g. Getting overly paranoid about high level manipulation)

Like I think you're townreading Arkias for something that is a general newbscum tell and I'm much more interested in holding a dialogue about that

[the worst]

The Worst is someone who I also liked initially, but I'm somewhat put off by his excessive helping of newbies. I think it's possible that it's a thing to subtly improve their opinion of him. It's not necessarily scummy, though, as this is a newbie game. TW, do you have a town game where you do this you could link to?

Yeah I'll link my town newbie games when I get home. It's a pretty common factor, and something I did much more heavily back when the IC role was a thing.

I rolled scum as an SE in a newbie pretty recently and found it kinda difficult to coach newbies as effectively as I can when I'm town but that's whatever, it's probably more of a mood thing than an alignment thing

Do you have a read on my actual content though? Sorry to be prickly but you're basically stating that you think me taking the SE role seriously is scum indicative and that's pretty heavily souring my ability to treat your reads as credible

[geraintm]

gonna drop the hot theory bomb: LAMIST is rarely alignment-indicative

what is lamist?

[geraintm]

Now, among the others. I mostly feel like both Ldog and Geraintm were angling for an easy lynch on Thomth. And Zoomie hasn't really done anything, in my opinion. I would be okay to lynch Zoomie right now, but at the moment I'm not really too enthusiastic right now. I'm going to look back Geraintm in the morning and evaluate if I should be moving my vote there instead of Ldog, I'm not really sure and I'm kind of tired right now.

If it were easy, he'd be dead by now...

I'm pretty bad at identifying scum day one, i was never, ever good at it in my old games. This time, Thomth totally rubbed me up the wrong way. Of everyone playing, they are the person i think is the most scum. I also think they were not helping if they were townies either....

I've not seen anything from anyone else that really has caught my attention, there havne't been enough switching of votes to try and catch any patterns, so what else am i meant to go on?

[the worst]

gonna drop the hot theory bomb: LAMIST is rarely alignment-indicative

what is lamist?

Look At Me I'm So Town
people drawing attention to things they've done that are town indicative - it's a pretty dated tell from site meta long long ago

it's situationally alignment inducative (if said person is doing nothing but signal how towny they are, for example) but those situations are pretty rare

[the worst]

Uncrowned - could you talk to me about NaCl's reads on this page if you have time tonight?

[Uncrowned]

I can't accurately read TW's alignment but I get the feeling he's subtly trying to shade me and seeing what slots it can stick with

I need to go back and see if I can find other instances of it but I'm pretty sure he's attempted it with both geraintm and Creature as well.

Okay, so I followed up on this stuff and turns out I was correct, he has done a similar thing to me with other slots. In all fairness though, he has also given other slots similar treatment and thus I can't say it's out of the ordinary or anything like that.

I do think his initial push of me evening out wagons at the very beginning of the game was a little off, but it's hard to think it's scum-indicative because I don't think he'd be that obvious. The only thing I could think of is him perhaps attempting to move my vote off him in a real low-key manner, but why would he be concerned about 2 votes on him on P1? The chances of that picking up steam and leading to a lynch were close to none. I don't think he'd be frazzled by that.

I'm gonna put this thought of TW "shading" me on the backburner for now, I think I've been looking too much into what I *want* to see rather than what's actually happening. Gonna read up on some other slots and try not get tunnel vision on him.

[the worst]

Little confession: i did fabricate my push on you at the start of the game. Can you guess why?

[the worst]

TW, do you have a town game where you do this you could link to?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=79402

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=78203

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77949

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77080


https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77211 included for sake of completeness but I'd appreciate if you take meta from this game with a hefty grain of salt. I tried my best to maintain my usual level of engagement with newbies but one person in this game kinda tilted me a bit further than I like to be tilted.



Think this is all my newbie town games since the first time I took a teaching role. (the "IC"/inexperience challenged role in old newbie games - this play style was born from there)

If I've missed any I'm sorry. I'm mobile posting but think I got them all.

[Uncrowned]

Uncrowned - could you talk to me about NaCl's reads on this page if you have time tonight?

I think it's a bit too clean cut, I don't like the fact that the 3 least active players are all in his potential scumreads, and the reasoning for putting them there isn't super specific and doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

It almost feels a bit too fence-sitty, especially for a reads list that obviously had some thought put into it, since it wasn't just a list with names.

I'm also paranoid about his whole "one of Uncrowned/TW could be scum". It's like he's setting up a bunch of possibilities for a variety of slots so that whichever way the game goes, he can go down that route and it won't seem forced or unnatural. It could just be him having a different playstyle to me, but I prefer to focus on one slot at a time or at most two, not set up FIVE different slots as potential scum with a bunch of "could bes".

The TRs aren't terrible. I probably wouldn't have Arkias there just yet, think there's still some sorting that needs to go on. Overall I just think putting LDog/Zoom/Gerain in the scum pile was kinda lazy

[the worst]

Sorry for vanity but in a vacuum what do you think of his read on me?

[Uncrowned]

Little confession: i did fabricate my push on you at the start of the game. Can you guess why?

I'm assuming you wanted to get an early read on my alignment since, if I'm scumcrowned, you think I could cause problems if left unattended for too long in the game.

Either that or you wanted to come up with an argument towards me that was clearly questionable and see if anyone would jump on it with you.

[the worst]

Mostly the former ya

You got through a lot in that game because a lot of the intensity of the gamestate attached to the masons & your scumbud - by the time it hit endgame you'd kinda gotten through without having to post under too much pressure. that meant there was nothing slippery or heated or personal from you, so the web you were weaving really didn't have many gaps in it.

You started with a slow burn on pg. 1 so I poked and prodded to squeeze more content out of you

[Uncrowned]

Sorry for vanity but in a vacuum what do you think of his read on me?

I agree with the placement, I think. I'd probably have you toward as a weak TL/bordering on null, but that's because I'm not really confident in assessing your game tbh.

However, the reasoning isn't all that great. The "I liked you at the start" while giving no examples or anything is too vague for my liking. I don't really think it's fair for me to comment on him being paranoid about your helping of newer players though, since there's every chance he just hasn't played with you in this queue and doesn't know how you operate here.

[the worst]

I don't think opportunism testing newbies really works all that well. it creates content but generally super inexperienced newbies do some combination of
- ignore it
- sheep it because it sounds confident
- get paranoid of me at the exclusion of reading other slots

sadly none of them are particularly AI and in particular the third kinda kills a lot of gamestates. just too hard to check newbie caution/unsureness from opportunism


it is super valuable to try and push someone like you who has a good deep con scumgame out of your comfort zone <:

[the worst]

Sorry for vanity but in a vacuum what do you think of his read on me?

I agree with the placement, I think. I'd probably have you toward as a weak TL/bordering on null, but that's because I'm not really confident in assessing your game tbh.

However, the reasoning isn't all that great. The "I liked you at the start" while giving no examples or anything is too vague for my liking. I don't really think it's fair for me to comment on him being paranoid about your helping of newer players though, since there's every chance he just hasn't played with you in this queue and doesn't know how you operate here.

Cool
VOTE: NaCl
I had a feeling your placement was pretty similar but I found NaCl's reasoning kinda slimy - if you were on a similar page I might have needed to really check my reads but I think NaCl is likely just scum

NaCl/Ark > zoomie as wildcard

[the worst]

I'd probs rather push Arkias but they're more lynchable than readable because of the deadline and v/la-ness