Newbie 1973 | Mountain | Over

[chazary]

So why not naked vote Phoenix instead of just saying he concerned you with no explanation? Or why not just say Arthur concerned you after Farren's vote instead of putting a second vote on him?

I get what you're saying but I still don't understand this inconsistency in voting habit. I also don't think saying "my gameplay might seem odd and weird" is a good excuse for odd or weird gameplay.

[CheekyTeeky]

So why not naked vote Phoenix instead of just saying he concerned you with no explanation? Or why not just say Arthur concerned you after Farren's vote instead of putting a second vote on him?

I get what you're saying but I still don't understand this inconsistency in voting habit. I also don't think saying "my gameplay might seem odd and weird" is a good excuse for odd or weird gameplay.

I'm not providing an excuse I'm just trying to let you know that this is my playstyle. I'm also not trying to get you to see me as either alignment because I attempt to play the same way as both alignments. I try to be more transparent in newbie games because my ways are indeed confusing. The key to deciphering behaviour is identifying my intent. I'll break down the action in question as an example:

In post 153 I naked vote Arthur behind Farren seeing it as a good opportunity to apply pressure by creating a wagon in the hope to clear up my initial misgivings about Arthur. When he responded his indignant tone bled town and helped me to sort him into that category - indicated by the "Excellent" post after his response.

Now how are you supposed to know this?

Well, do you think it is more likely that town or scum naked vote? I think Town naked vote to gauge reactions in order to sort players. Scum may naked vote to cruise by unquestioned, the only problem is, is that naked voting almost always draws scrutiny from town so this is move that scum need to pre-plan an a response to when they are inevitably asked for the reason behind their vote.
IMO it is more likely that scum tend to overexplain their vote or they try to make their vote non-chalant in such a way as to give them an out should they need it. As town I do not feel a need to explain my actions unless I feel clarification is important. I also do not feel a need to "act" towny.

Now why would town or scum post "Excellent" after the response and immediately unvote?
As town I have obtained a satisfactory read from the response and have moved my vote back to someone I believe is higher priority to sort.
As scum I was hyper aware of how towny Arthur sounded that I immediately unvoted to avoid drawing attention to a bad push. As scum this is a bad move as I have already drawn attention with my naked vote. A better move would be to continue to tunnel Arthur and use his indignation as admission of guilt. This would allow me to look busy and aggressive in such a way that most would write that off as town.

It's up to you to decide the intent of people's actions and whether or not they are trying to be town or if they actually just are town.

[chazary]

Honestly I think naked voting is a much scummier thing to do. If its meant to gauge reaction then I don't see at all how it's helpful. By simply naked voting there is nothing for the voted party to comment on and are left to just ask "why'd you do that". Granted I'm sure some naked voting in this thread alone has probably lead to some decent reads on people. Can't go back and look rn but I will when I have the chance. Mainly for my own learning purposes.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.08

Ulvetanna Peak, Queen Maud Land, Antarctica

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

chazary

(3): Mitillos, Farren, ArthurConyl

EspeciallyTheLies

(2): CheekyTeeky, chazary

CheekyTeeky

(1): EspeciallyTheLies

Mitillos

(1): PenguinPower

Not Voting

(2): Ph0enix, Nomanssky101

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-12-21 08:00:00).

Mod notes:

Mitillos replaced Gyro Zeppeli

Nomanssky101 is being replaced.

PenguinPower is V/LA until Sunday[/area]

[CheekyTeeky]

Spoiler: My read on ETL PBPA

HI PENGUIN!! ♥♥♥♥

I was lynched D1; my partner D2. I picked a fight with a Mason and didn't even realize he *was* a Mason.

Hey that was me!
hello again Farren! So glad you're town this game.

Join me in lynching scum on D1 again.
VOTE: Cheeky

I'd vote gyro just for the sheer principle of removing unpleasantness but I feel like.. that will probably sort itself out, much like chibiie

More shortly. Dealing with work BS at the moment.

Here are my problems with this first post.
1. The hi to Penguin was almost too much like compensating for something, this becomes particularly strange later when ETL doesn't even realise what gender Penguin is. It comes across as a buddying of an SE that could be consider a threat.
2. Says Farren is town straight off the bat which makes me feel like he's spewing TMI (Too Much Information - scum know the alignments of players) as it was so early in the game I don't believe he could make that read as strong as it was even with one game's worth of meta under her belt.
3. The "lynch cheeky" angle is a bit forced and feels like she's setting herself up for a tunnel on me which will allow her to appear to be scum hunting for the entire day phase. This becomes even more ominous as we see I am the only scumread in the readslist she provides later.
4. Half jokes about a policy lynch in the opening post on Gyro. As an SE I want new players to enjoy assimilating to MS. Policy lynching them is discouraging scummy laziness.

Farren feels far more genuine here than his tactically cool and composed scum game I witnessed. Post 33 reinforces this feeling for me.

Still not enough for a "glad you're town this game" strength of read in the first post. Scum often make the mistake of townreading too early.

I really like this - shows a desire to understand people's motivations in order to figure them out.

Weak/shallow read. Again, it's much easier for scum to town read people, shallow reasons like this seem like she's decided to go with Arthur town and has looking for supporting evidence in hindsight.

... not during the first 48 hours. Waiting for a game to start can cause all kinds of lag. If the game had more substantial content, then yes, not getting involved would be indicative of .. something. But not on page 3 with only 4 people posting.

Strange question to answer, seems almost defensive. What a player chooses to answer can show posturing intent. Why respond to this? Does this help her sort Gyro at all? No, the only function of this statement is to imply that her being AFK and late is not scummy. Would town need to do that?

There's someting off with Cheeky's posts and votes (explained further below). The only thing I was confident of at the time of my first post was that I needed to probe that more, hence the vote. I think it was rather successful actually. Multiple people reacted to my post which will give me a lot of information as the game continues.

"Something off" - here's generic scum statement designed to make the reader fill in the blank. My posts and votes have been explained and have been obviously intentional when not explained. If ETL was concerned with sorting me they would have attempted to interact with me, instead they are casing me and avoiding direct confrontation which allows them to weave whatever narrative fits their agenda. That is not sorting, that is an attempt to steam roll someone they considered an optimal target after assessing the playerlist.

If ETL is town then you all need to push them for this "lots of information as the game continues" schtick. Theres no reason that the responses her opening post provoked couldn't have been analysed prior to "game continuation"

Anyway that is all I can be bothered analysing in her ISO, now I'll move onto my rebuttal of their wall post which is full of scum indicative thinking.

Spoiler: Cheeky scum accusation rebuttal

This comment at such an early stage just pings me so hard. It's clear to me Gyro is a trolly aggressive player. I don't see anything in the interactions he quoted that are at all alignment-indicative. It reads to me like he's trying to set up a distance from a buddy.

OK this is important as this is the main reason I now have a solid scumread on ETL. Her buddying logic does not align with her reads list:

TOWN:
farren, arthur

maybe town:
chaz, mit

penguin - i'm putting her here for the reasons above

dead null:
phoenix, nomans

scum:
cheeky

See how she puts Gyro's replacement in the maybe town category. If her logic was consistent then surely she would put mit with Penguin or reassess her comment that it sounded like I was distancing from my buddy. This inconsistency shows that she has forgotten her comment when compiling the list which leads me to believe that she is fabricating her reads with an agenda. Attacking both the SE's as scum is smart because they can seem like more of a threat/are harder to manipulate. You either get an SE lynch or you discredit them enough that they are heeded less and become more likely to be lynched in later phases if scum!ETL decides not to shoot them.

Going back to the original quote, she says that "it is clear Gyro is a trolly aggressive player." First, what does trolly and aggressive have to do with alignment? She implicates herself because again she is spewing another player as town (I have previously discussed her spewing Farren as town.)

Sure there wasn't much AI in the opening posts but by voicing my initial impressions I accelerated us out of RVS giving us more time to spend analysing real game content. I have been open and clear around my RVS interactions and by no means did I represent my impressions as anything concrete. ETL does not fairly evaluate my play because she is looking to fit my play into her agenda driven narrative.

This confirms that idea - a slip of the tongue. He went back and read it. I don't usually re-read my own posts unless I want to make sure they sound a certain way (i.e. when I'm scum...) If the reaction is genuine, and he genuinely decided that Gyro is the scum in the two, how do you make that mistake? It's unnatural.

I must be unnatural then, I reread my posts all the time because I like the sound of my own voice and because I reread the thread in it's entirety several times in RVS trying to find anything that I can fly with to get the game rolling. As scum I'd edit before posting several times until I'm satisfied that what I'm saying doesn't implicate me in any way. This is a stretch to say the least.

I don't really follow this logic, which indicates to me it may be made up

Again you're treating an RVS post like it's day 2 and what I'm saying should be concrete. The logic is fine and not hard to understand at all. Disagreeing with it is not the same as my theory being illogical.

Then there's this. The great thing about forum mafia is that I don't have to be on the thread all day every day to be involved and engaged with the solve. This is purely and OMGUS vote as far as I can tell, which doesn't give anyone much information about his motives nor does it actually accomplish anything as far as figuring me out. Phoenix and Gyro asked directly, which makes sense to me.

This is scum going for the bait and part of the reason OMGUS votes are great. I OMGUS naked voted to see if ETL would call me out for the OMGUS and here we have it, an SE surface level reading my play to implicate me and accusing me of not asking questions to figure her out...did she ask me even one question before asking town to lynch me?

This feels fabricated to me. He's voting me but "needs more"? Clearly not since he feels I'm worth of a vote over Phoenix. And then so easily reading everyone who has been posting the most as town... lazy lazy. WHY are they town?

Well this is clearly a misrep. I needed more from you because you had literally posted once and then vanished. Phoenix was active at the time and interacting without the need for a vote/extra pressure. As for why they are town, you could either read the thread or ask instead of being all dramatic like an overeager cat at his bowl of milk.

8) CheekyTeeky (SE)
See my responses above. I think a lot of my read here, beyond the in-thread issues I've noted, also stems from the fact that I'm expecting a higher level of game play from this person, so I'm going to be scrutinizing it a lot more heavily, and in doing so am finding things that don't jive with what I would expect from someone genuinely interested in sorting people out. The OMGUS vote in particular rubs me the wrong way. There was no questioning of anything else in my first post at all. Of course I can see why other people are townreading the slot, but I would caution against taking things at face value. It's far too easy to ask questions and be active as scum and I don't believe that's alignment indicative at all. The tone has to be right and I need to see the person working things out in the thread and coming to conclusions that I'm able to follow, even if I don't agree.

Expecting a higher level of game play is laughable when you have mentioned meta for arguments on other players and yet you have neglected to meta me or explain how my level of play is not meeting your expectations. SEs come in all shapes and sizes so expecting me to play to some imagined standard seems unreasonable. I have seen no explanation from you that proves I am not interested in sorting people out and again the hypocrisy when you aren't even engaging me is pretty clear. Noone is townreading me for being active and asking questions and that is a better description of your other townreads no? If you need to see my working to follow my conclusions then I suppose I should accuse you of being scum for not meeting my expectations of play for an SE.

TL;DR ETL chose me as a target in her first post and has shown no inclination to engage me directly or sort me. Rather she has devised a hole riddled argument to push forward her agenda driven narrative. She has misrepped, contradicted, hypocrisized (this should be a word), TMI'd players alignments, and neglected to ensure my interactions with others as scum makes sense with her readslist. She is tunnelling me like newbie scum and it will be interesting to see if her reads naturally evolve or if she holds rigidly to her current scheme.

Basically is she sorting me or trying to jam together mismatched pieces to sell my lynch?

[Ph0enix]

Throughout the game, Ph0enix has been voting without reason and unvoting when it seems controversial. Two examples of this are when he voted back Gyro, then unvoted him because Gyro's voters were under pressure of being scum. Then he voted Chazary, got grilled again, then unvoted.
The first time, with Gyro, if he really did just want to vote him back, why would he withdraw his vote when the wagoners were pressured? I believe he didn't want to be seen as the guy who started the lynch wagon.
Second time with Chazary, he voted him, saying he wanted to hear from "one of the quieter guys". Thats not really a good reason for voting him, but thats ok. Then when Cheeky questions him: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11438328
A bit later he withdraws his vote. Following that he is under pressure again.

I really don't like that response.

First, I voted Gyro, again, just because he voted me first, no other reason. I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain that one considering it was literally the third post in the game. However, I unintentionally started what was a bandwagon against Gyro consisting of purely random votes put on top of mine. Gyro's voters were under pressure of being scum, yes, but who's more suspicious here - the one who opened with the first vote, or the ones who (seemingly) randomly followed. I didn't want that wagon to actually get somewhere, I mean, the guy was at L-2, there could have been more follow-ups, which, if one is at L-2, is a really bad position to be in. So I backed down and unvoted him.

Then, later, I voted Chazary because by that point votes actually had done a pretty solid job of making people talk. So I voted him in order to get him involved in the conversation. However, my vote on Chazary was followed by a completely random vote on Arthur, followed by a completely random vote on PP (both by Chazary, but still). This made me think whether my vote could actually help me learn something this time. Unlike the situation in the first posts with the first couple of votes, this was no longer the case, a simple vote wasn't going to cut it. So I decided to unvote Chazary in order to avoid starting some kind of wagon as with Gyro. Also, I'm really curious as do when do you think Cheeky "questioned me" prior to me unvoting Chazary.

FoS Arthur

Now, to Farren:

You did state some of your townreads previously, but the last quote in your post was post #100, I feel like there's a bit more information now in comparison to then. So, about a hundred posts later (it's even more now), the fact that the only thing you told me is that you had already said what you have to say? To me, it looks like you are dodging the question. And considering you voted Arthur earlier simply because he didn't answer your question, I suppose I should vote you now until I get a satisfactory answer. However, unlike Arthur thinks, I don't throw votes left and right.

FoS Farren

How's that, given the fact that about half of the current votes are completely random (including mine)? I mean, I voted chazary but it's not like it'll make a difference or something. That being said:
UNVOTE: chazary

If that was your reasoning for unvoting chazary, why didn't you vote for someone that would make a difference?
If that wasn't your reasoning for unvoting chazary, what was?

1. Again, I figured we're past that stage now and a simple RVS vote wasn't going to do anything.
2. Avoiding starting a bandwagon again

(I know I stated both above, just wanted it to be clear.)

It looks like Mitillos and Darren want to lynch Chazary. It looks like a coupla other guys (including me) want to lynch ETL. While I think both of them are suspect, we should agree on one person, the most suspect person, to lynch. I think some good points have been made about Chazary. I want to hear more from him. VOTE: Chazary

Ah, the irony. The person who's accusing me of making random votes is making what is quite a random vote, seemingly. At least you can say what are you referring to when you say that good points are made about chazary, you can't just throw that out there.

FoS Chazary


As for the other posts I had to catch up with:

I really liked some of the points ESL and Mitillos made:

"It's far too easy to ask questions and be active as scum and I don't believe that's alignment indicative at all." - ETL; post #186

I've already said previously that I absolutely think the same. Asking questions/being active =/= Town.

Mitillos made some great points about Chazary considering his votes earlier. This, paired up with that:

Honestly I think naked voting is a much scummier thing to do. If its meant to gauge reaction then I don't see at all how it's helpful. By simply naked voting there is nothing for the voted party to comment on and are left to just ask "why'd you do that". Granted I'm sure some naked voting in this thread alone has probably lead to some decent reads on people. Can't go back and look rn but I will when I have the chance. Mainly for my own learning purposes.

Well, what do you know. The other guy that thinks naked voting is scummy is the one that opened with not one, but two seemingly random votes.

Also, I don't really get how ESL's first post makes her suspicious whatsoever. To me, opening up by apparently being sure that one of the players is definitely town and one is definitely scum is just a way of making a controversial post so as to see what the others' replies will be.

@chazary: Could you explain why you voted ESL? You could already have and I may have missed it (excuse me if so), but it seems to appear out of nowhere as of the information I currently have.

As for the Cheeky vs. ESL debate, I honestly need more information or simply to re-read it a couple of times, guess that may help as well. Same goes for ESL's accusations of PP.

And to end this wall of text, Cheeky asked me for a readslist. As of now, considering my statement right above:

Possible Town: Mitillos, Cheeky, PP
Unknown: ESL, Nomanssky101
Possible scum: Farren, Arthur, Chazary

[chazary]

But there wasn't much to question in your first post to begin with so what else was she supposed to do. Thats why I asked if you two knew each other and assumed it was a joke RVS vote but I guess not quite. You give all this evidence and reasoning and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your Cheeky scumread but also you said this a bit later that you had only read the first two pages and that was two days after you voted her.
I don't remember anything super AI in those first two pages. I know that the end of RVS was uncertain at the time so it could've been random but why not say that?

...

I second this question. I get the logic behind sussing out her SvS/SvT logic but I'm unsure how that early in the game something like that would make you certain she's scummy.

Also, just throwing a random thought out there, but is it overthinking to wonder if Cheeky and ETL's rivalry so far in the game is just a much more elaborate SvS strat like what Cheeky suggested Phoenix and Gyro were possibly pulling at the start?

Well, anyway, VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies

Basically I was willing to brush off the suspicious immediacy of their reads in their very first post had they come back to explain with far less certainty. But because we got the great wall of text that we did rather than some questioning of Cheeky, I find them suss. I think they may have dug themselves into a hole by making their first post, scumreading Cheeky, then going afk for a while to come back to people against them. It was too late to pull the "it was RVS" card so now they're frantically pointing to anything they can to defend their initial claim rather than consider other options. I find that much more suspicious than anything anyone else has done so far. So they get my vote for now.

[chazary]

It looks like Mitillos and Darren want to lynch Chazary. It looks like a coupla other guys (including me) want to lynch ETL. While I think both of them are suspect, we should agree on one person, the most suspect person, to lynch. I think some good points have been made about Chazary. I want to hear more from him. VOTE: Chazary

Ah, the irony. The person who's accusing me of making random votes is making what is quite a random vote, seemingly. At least you can say what are you referring to when you say that good points are made about chazary, you can't just throw that out there.

FoS Chazary

I think its pretty obvious what points their referring to given that their vote is following two others who have both been questioning my past activity and voting habits. Plus in this same post you scumread me. Why target Arthur for "randomly" voting for me if you also question my alignment.

I do agree that putting me at L-2 seems off but I can't totally argue against that because if there was someone I found suss and wanted to hear from I could see myself doing the same.

[chazary]

Honestly I think naked voting is a much scummier thing to do. If its meant to gauge reaction then I don't see at all how it's helpful. By simply naked voting there is nothing for the voted party to comment on and are left to just ask "why'd you do that". Granted I'm sure some naked voting in this thread alone has probably lead to some decent reads on people. Can't go back and look rn but I will when I have the chance. Mainly for my own learning purposes.

Well, what do you know. The other guy that thinks naked voting is scummy is the one that opened with not one, but two seemingly random votes.

Also, I don't really get how ESL's first post makes her suspicious whatsoever. To me, opening up by apparently being sure that one of the players is definitely town and one is definitely scum is just a way of making a controversial post so as to see what the others' replies will be.

Admittedly, nothing. I was just answering what Cheeky was asking about reading naked votes. And I'm not sure who you're referring to about opening with two random votes and thinking naked voting is scummy. I can only imagine its me but your wording doesn't make that seem likely. Who are you talking about?

And if it is me your talking about then my votes were still, although late, part of RVS. Cheeky and Farren's were made far out of RVS which is what made me question them.

As for ETL, I also didn't think their first post was suspicious until they came back and defended their initial reads with so much evidence. Seems like grasping at straws.

[Ph0enix]

It looks like Mitillos and Darren want to lynch Chazary. It looks like a coupla other guys (including me) want to lynch ETL. While I think both of them are suspect, we should agree on one person, the most suspect person, to lynch. I think some good points have been made about Chazary. I want to hear more from him. VOTE: Chazary

Ah, the irony. The person who's accusing me of making random votes is making what is quite a random vote, seemingly. At least you can say what are you referring to when you say that good points are made about chazary, you can't just throw that out there.

FoS Chazary

I think its pretty obvious what points their referring to given that their vote is following two others who have both been questioning my past activity and voting habits. Plus in this same post you scumread me. Why target Arthur for "randomly" voting for me if you also question my alignment.

I do agree that putting me at L-2 seems off but I can't totally argue against that because if there was someone I found suss and wanted to hear from I could see myself doing the same.

Well then, if it's that obvious, it would be no problem for him to explain himself. I'll wait, no problem.

What has my assumption of your alignment to do with Arthur's seemingly random vote? It's random nonetheless.

Also, the FoS on you must be way down in the post, not here. I must've screwed it up.

[Ph0enix]

Honestly I think naked voting is a much scummier thing to do. If its meant to gauge reaction then I don't see at all how it's helpful. By simply naked voting there is nothing for the voted party to comment on and are left to just ask "why'd you do that". Granted I'm sure some naked voting in this thread alone has probably lead to some decent reads on people. Can't go back and look rn but I will when I have the chance. Mainly for my own learning purposes.

Well, what do you know. The other guy that thinks naked voting is scummy is the one that opened with not one, but two seemingly random votes.

Also, I don't really get how ESL's first post makes her suspicious whatsoever. To me, opening up by apparently being sure that one of the players is definitely town and one is definitely scum is just a way of making a controversial post so as to see what the others' replies will be.

Admittedly, nothing. I was just answering what Cheeky was asking about reading naked votes. And I'm not sure who you're referring to about opening with two random votes and thinking naked voting is scummy. I can only imagine its me but your wording doesn't make that seem likely. Who are you talking about?

And if it is me your talking about then my votes were still, although late, part of RVS. Cheeky and Farren's were made far out of RVS which is what made me question them.

Indeed, I am referring to you. As for your quote above, given the way you said it it seemed like you meant naked voting is questionable even in RVS, which would be weird considering you opened that way. I guess there could've been a misunderstanding. Although I still agree with Mitillos' point about your earlier votes, so the FoS stands.

[Ph0enix]

But there wasn't much to question in your first post to begin with so what else was she supposed to do. Thats why I asked if you two knew each other and assumed it was a joke RVS vote but I guess not quite. You give all this evidence and reasoning and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your Cheeky scumread but also you said this a bit later that you had only read the first two pages and that was two days after you voted her.
I don't remember anything super AI in those first two pages. I know that the end of RVS was uncertain at the time so it could've been random but why not say that?

...

I second this question. I get the logic behind sussing out her SvS/SvT logic but I'm unsure how that early in the game something like that would make you certain she's scummy.

Also, just throwing a random thought out there, but is it overthinking to wonder if Cheeky and ETL's rivalry so far in the game is just a much more elaborate SvS strat like what Cheeky suggested Phoenix and Gyro were possibly pulling at the start?

Well, anyway, VOTE: EspeciallyTheLies

Basically I was willing to brush off the suspicious immediacy of their reads in their very first post had they come back to explain with far less certainty. But because we got the great wall of text that we did rather than some questioning of Cheeky, I find them suss. I think they may have dug themselves into a hole by making their first post, scumreading Cheeky, then going afk for a while to come back to people against them. It was too late to pull the "it was RVS" card so now they're frantically pointing to anything they can to defend their initial claim rather than consider other options. I find that much more suspicious than anything anyone else has done so far. So they get my vote for now.

Why wouldn't she be able to "pull the RVS card" exactly? She posted it at the beginning of the game as a vote that is part of RVS, then came back later and catched up to find that, after reading everything, Cheeky in fact IS suspicious even though her first vote against Cheeky was not well-founded. Seems reasonable to me. Again, still haven't read details about her scumread of Cheeky, but as far as I know right now, voting ETL just because of this only is a bit much, imo.

[Farren]

Town do not have the inevitable inhibitions scum have as they have nothing to worry about.

Town have plenty to worry about. We just worry about different things - or the same things, at different times.

[Farren]

I mean basically what it is, a vote with no reason. I suppose those tend to be common around this time?

So you did have the right idea. Then yeah, the tonal ping stands. Whether or not someone casts a naked vote is obvious - the phrasing of "who exactly are you accusing of naked voting?" sounds off for an activity where it's clearly definable whether or not it happened.

2. How did she know Farren's reason for voting Arthur quickly enough to vote Arthur right after? I see that Arthur missed Farren's question but to an outside party who didn't ask or wasn't asked the question I don't see how this would've been read as scum behavior. Plus, neither gave Arthur any time to possibly make another post answering Farren's question. They both seemed kind of trigger happy in voting him after one post.

My initial thought on 2) was, "Why do you assume she knew?" But the answer to that is post 155 - while it expresses uncertainty, I think this is a fair assumption to make.

With regards to Arthur: in his post 150, he responded to Cheeky's post 146, made after my question in post 141. I've learned that if I'm going to vote for someone as a prod / attention-getter due to missing a question, it's better to do it sooner rather than later. More likely to be noticed by the person you're voting for. Better for purposes of judging their reaction. Less likely to spiral out of control.

[Farren]

223 reminded me ... Cheeky, did you ever get around to explaining what you were thinking on this, and the scumread you had prior to this?

I look forward to part 2. I'm back to null on Phoenix will elaborate soon just buuusy for next couple of hours.

[Farren]

In other words he voted for me just because I didn't answer his question which again seems an inadequate reason. Then he unvotes me in the next post.

My vote accomplished exactly what I wanted to at the time - it got your attention, and it got my question answered. Why would you describe that as an inadequate reason to vote for someone?

[Farren]

As town I have obtained a satisfactory read from the response and have moved my vote back to someone I believe is higher priority to sort.
As scum I was hyper aware of how towny Arthur sounded that I immediately unvoted to avoid drawing attention to a bad push. As scum this is a bad move as I have already drawn attention with my naked vote. A better move would be to continue to tunnel Arthur and use his indignation as admission of guilt. This would allow me to look busy and aggressive in such a way that most would write that off as town.

How do you judge my interactions with Arthur, given how you've said you'd handle this as scum?

[chazary]

I mean basically what it is, a vote with no reason. I suppose those tend to be common around this time?

So you did have the right idea. Then yeah, the tonal ping stands. Whether or not someone casts a naked vote is obvious - the phrasing of "who exactly are you accusing of naked voting?" sounds off for an activity where it's clearly definable whether or not it happened.

Ohhh I see what you mean now by a tonal ping. Didn't know what in my post would have raised suspicion but now I get it. The reason I asked who she was accusing is because you and her both had just naked voted Arthur so I was confused as to why she suddenly started talking about it, seemingly accusing someone else of it, after she had just done so herself. But I didn't want to call you or her out for that when I was unsure of what naked voting was. I searched the term but didn't find any good definitions. Also didn't really look very hard for them either, though.

Also, just to clarify, you can have text and a vote in the same post but if none of that text explains the following vote it is still considered naked?

Also, also, going to respond to Phoenix's and others' posts about me too but not now. Finals are making my brain feel like TV static 24/7. I'll find time to respond soon. Maybe tonight. Probably tomorrow.

[Farren]

I think 229 is going to take more time than I have this morning to go over. But ...

She has misrepped, contradicted, hypocrisized (this should be a word), TMI'd players alignments, and neglected to ensure my interactions with others as scum makes sense with her readslist. She is tunnelling me like newbie scum and it will be interesting to see if her reads naturally evolve or if she holds rigidly to her current scheme.

I had ETL as Town. Seeing the above line makes me think I'm wrong about one of ETL / Cheeky.

P-edit to chazary: I wouldn't call such a post a naked vote, no.

[Farren]

Now, to Farren:

You did state some of your townreads previously, but the last quote in your post was post #100, I feel like there's a bit more information now in comparison to then. So, about a hundred posts later (it's even more now), the fact that the only thing you told me is that you had already said what you have to say? To me, it looks like you are dodging the question. And considering you voted Arthur earlier simply because he didn't answer your question, I suppose I should vote you now until I get a satisfactory answer. However, unlike Arthur thinks, I don't throw votes left and right.

Dodging the question how? You asked if I had any townreads. I gave you the townreads I had. This is a bad accusation.

If you don't find my answer to be satisfactory, that's what follow-up questions are for. You didn't ask any here. Why?

There's more information since post 100, yes, but none of that information led to new townreads at the time. Specifically:

Your question was at post 180.

Players active between posts 100 and 180:

PenguinPower (townread)
Gyro (didn't townread, got banned)
chazary (didn't townread)
Ph0enix (townread, but noted that I was continuing to work on the read)
CheekyTeeky (townread)
ArthurConyl (didn't townread)
ETL (didn't townread)

The more interesting stuff as far as my townreads go occurred after post 180:

Mitillos's entrance (183 / 197) - modified read on the Gyro / Mitillos slot from scummy to Town.
ETL's response in 186 - some iffy stuff, but some good stuff too. Tentative Town, pending the re-read of Cheeky.
Cheeky's response in 229 - notably increased likelihood of one scum between Cheeky / ETL.

[Farren]

Then, later, I voted Chazary because by that point votes actually had done a pretty solid job of making people talk. So I voted him in order to get him involved in the conversation. However, my vote on Chazary was followed by a completely random vote on Arthur, followed by a completely random vote on PP (both by Chazary, but still). This made me think whether my vote could actually help me learn something this time. Unlike the situation in the first posts with the first couple of votes, this was no longer the case, a simple vote wasn't going to cut it.

So I decided to unvote Chazary in order to avoid starting some kind of wagon as with Gyro

. Also, I'm really curious as do when do you think Cheeky "questioned me" prior to me unvoting Chazary.

Why do you want to avoid starting wagons? Or is it something specific about not wanting to start a wagon on chazary specifically?

[Plotinus]

Pine replaces Nomanssky101! Please welcome him!

[PenguinPower]

Spoiler:

[CheekyTeeky]

Possible Town: Mitillos, Cheeky, PP
Unknown: ESL, Nomanssky101
Possible scum: Farren, Arthur, Chazary

Would you mind elaborating on your penguin read?

[CheekyTeeky]

223 reminded me ... Cheeky, did you ever get around to explaining what you were thinking on this, and the scumread you had prior to this?

I look forward to part 2. I'm back to null on Phoenix will elaborate soon just buuusy for next couple of hours.

Post 221