White Flag - TM2020

[gobbledygook]

VOTE: Hopkirk

I just don't get why you had to vote him to talk to him? Dann seems pretty capable of talking without needing to be pressured with a vote. It looked like you were trying to get away from the situation

[Auro]

Dann, can you ask the worst about what exactly pinged him from my entrance?
I almost always tend to wagon in RVS.

Sleeping now, will give thoughts on other stuff tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Hopkirk

I just don't get why you had to vote him to talk to him? Dann seems pretty capable of talking without needing to be pressured with a vote. It looked like you were trying to get away from the situation

yes, i did not feel like voting you anymore. is that scummy?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: auro

[Hopkirk]

There's motivation to ask it as both town and scum. I'm only interested in what you've learned from the rest of our responses.
I can see scum motivation in posting a question designed to appear towny while not having any real justification for it, maintaining secrecy when asked why you did, and giving a tame explanation much later.
What's your experience playing scum? Can you describe your scum playing style? More specifically - if you roll scum, would you allow being coached by your partners?

That is a fair assertion. I had two main reasons for asking the question. 1) I wanted to understand the types of players in this game. I wanted to see if it was going to be a lot of people with big personalities or people who thought highly of themselves a la RC/Mastina/Kuribo, etc. It appears that this playerlist is not like that at all, judging from the responses. Save for probably Dongempire. 2) I wanted it to get us out of RVS by giving us SOMETHING to talk about.

I have only played scum twice. Both in New York.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80850
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80463

I would say that as scum I generally do not care if I get lynched because I hate playing it so I do things that are probably suicidal from an outsider's perspective.
Yes, I would allow my teammates to coach me, but if I was scum I would have told them the same thing and probably to save their breath.

I liked both people in this exchange and somewhat Dann for thinking along the same lines. Does feel different effortwise to Gobble in the one he linked that I was in. Do you ATE much Gobble?

Hopkirk's thing is a meme. I would appreciate it if he did not do the "cluck you" meme anymore because it wasn't funny and this isn't a Bill Burr or George Carlin standup night

As if I'd repeat the same joke more than once. Feedback will of course improve the quality of future programming.

Hopkirk 'Hops' Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Hopkirk

I just don't get why you had to vote him to talk to him? Dann seems pretty capable of talking without needing to be pressured with a vote. It looked like you were trying to get away from the situation

I'm not voting Dann?

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Kittmo

[Dannflor]

Dann, can you ask the worst about what exactly pinged him from my entrance?
I almost always tend to wagon in RVS.

Sleeping now, will give thoughts on other stuff tomorrow.

It was the post just after the wagon. It felt a bit overly apologetic or preemptively defensive to him, and he thinks that attitude can fit your scum meta. Wasn't enough to form a read off of he just warned me to keep an eye on you.

Hopkirk, why the Kittymo vote?

[Hopkirk]

You want me to explain or you want to sheep?

[gobbledygook]

I am traditionally ate but I try to limit it as the turkey

[Dannflor]

You want me to explain or you want to sheep?

I want you to explain, I'm town reading her.

[Cephrir]

I am traditionally ate but I try to limit it as the turkey

ur an alt?

[gobbledygook]

I am traditionally ate but I try to limit it as the turkey

ur an alt?

No but I did come from another site. I didn’t start mafia on ms

[Cephrir]

o ok

[gobbledygook]

I guess I should say I definitely was ate back when I started but I really try to limit it now on this site

[Hopkirk]

You want me to explain or you want to sheep?

I want you to explain, I'm town reading her.

Fine, but I'm not blind sheeping either. I hope you're happy.

Not a fan of how passive 100 reads tone wise. She made a lot of comments but what she left out gives me the impression she was avoiding getting into the noisiest/messiest/most visible parts of the game. Fence sitting on Gobble. Not getting involved/commenting about me (the hydra thing) and the gobble/Ceph conflict that were both going on at the time.

Hop 'Hoppers' Hopkirk

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Hopkirk

I just don't get why you had to vote him to talk to him? Dann seems pretty capable of talking without needing to be pressured with a vote. It looked like you were trying to get away from the situation

I'm not voting Dann?

You've posted twice since I asked this Turkey.

[gobbledygook]

yes, i did not feel like voting you anymore. is that scummy?

The desire to not want to be voting me is not scummy, the need to move it to another person to talk with them is weird. You just did it with Auro too.

Hopkirk, my vote on you and the comments below it are not related. Sorry if that was not clear

[Hopkirk]

That was not clear since you said one name then used 'you' several times then didn't elaborate - which gave the impression your initial use was correct.

Hop 'Hops' Hoppers

[Cephrir]

i plan to continue to vote however i feel like and ur welcome to continue complaining about it if that brings you joy

[Hopkirk]

How do you feel about Kitty?

Hop 'Hopington' Hopkirk

[gobbledygook]

That was not clear since you said one name then used 'you' several times then didn't elaborate - which gave the impression your initial use was correct.

Hop 'Hops' Hoppers

I like kitty for town.

[KittyMo]

I like Ceph. It seems like he's exploring things without being concerned about how he's being perceived. "why are you made of wood" in (#60 transitions pretty well to the PBPA in #81, I can see it as genuinely putting words to a feeling. The suspicion of gobble for big words is a great meme because...they're not very big words, but again, I think his handling of it fits with it being a genuine impression he had. I feel decent about the balancing his Formerfish thoughts with his teammate's too.

I didn't even see that post, but yeah that is a big personality.

So by page 3 you're expressing that you're sad no one is posting, that you feel like you make up a decent proportion of the posts, and even later commenting that it's interesting what people pick and choose to respond to. I guess I'm interested in why you didn't comment on anything from page 2 that wasn't a direct question toward you. Like, the amount of posts is clearly not being a barrier to you being able to analyze what was there. What was your mindset?

Fence sitting on Gobble.

When I got off the fence, I won't be shy about saying it.

Not getting involved/commenting about me (the hydra thing)

Aw, I'm sorry for not giving you more attention.

#73 was one of the more interesting posts in the thread for me this morning actually. I went back and looked through Dann's posts because "casual" was not the vibe I initially got. I can see how you would think that, but don't necessarily agree. Last quote was bad reading comprehension, but seemed best resolved without Garciaing. And this one I would like to dig into more, just forgot:

How does the answer to "Why White Flag?" give any useful information? The reasons would have been established prior, and there's no picking games after role assignments anyway.

Well it speaks to the type of person you are generally which is what I want to explore. It is helpful for me to know what type of people I am dealing with since I haven’t played with many of you.

Do you think it is a bad idea to try and introduce discussion into the game?

Not a fan of this. The first part feels like the 'make up a technically flawless answer that perfectly explains why I asked a question when I absolutely wasn't thinking about that logic when I asked it' that I used to catch myself doing as scum a while back. It feels semi-over engineered/too prepared for someone asking.

Second point is oddly hostile. Not really a question since it's rhetorical and nobody is ever really going to say 'yes I wanted to stop us introducing discussion into the game.'

I don't think your takes on "the first part" are great. Like, you seem to be arguing it's both "too prepared" but also something he didn't think through enough when he asked it which is why he had to overprepare later? Along Occam's razor lines, even if he is scum I don't really think that's probably the actual mindset.

Are you interested in unpacking to what extent you see the apparently hostile tone as alignment indicative?

As far as the hydra stuff, I was uncomfortable with Elements so I'm appreciative of the outcome regarding it.

Spoiler: Dannflor/Auro quotes, re: RQS

How does the answer to "Why White Flag?" give any useful information? The reasons would have been established prior, and there's no picking games after role assignments anyway.

Well it speaks to the type of person you are generally which is what I want to explore. It is helpful for me to know what type of people I am dealing with since I haven’t played with many of you.

Do you think it is a bad idea to try and introduce discussion into the game?

Why was this something you felt the need to wait to reveal?

I don’t think your question is necessarily scum motivated but RQS can be an easy thing for scum to hide behind in order to look like they’re doing something. “Discussion” or any type is not always a net positive and your question to Auro feels a little leading? Do you see why people might be so suspicious of what could be viewed as an empty question?

My only problem is the amount of defensiveness you've shown gobble, and why you've jumped so quickly to Cephrir making a bad faith read on your slot. I get it if you don't think your posting has been bad at all (which is a purely subjective thing), but do you at least see why Auro/me would interpret your question as empty? Also, do you have any reads beyond Cephrir at this point?

Do you think there is scum motivation for asking that question?

There's motivation to ask it as both town and scum. I'm only interested in what you've learned from the rest of our responses.
I can see scum motivation in posting a question designed to appear towny while not having any real justification for it, maintaining secrecy when asked why you did, and giving a tame explanation much later.

Dannflor asked gobble twice something along the lines of whether gobble gets why people might be concerned he's asking an empty question. Ironically, I think concerns that someone initiating RQS is scum "hiding behind" it has been overblown

every single time

I have ever seem an RQS. It's of course good to know why gobble asked the question, but I ironically think overly nitpicking RQS is an easy thing for scum to do to look like they're doing something. In turn, I have a small amount of beef with Auro in particular for opening with the assumption that it will yield nothing useful, and also with Dannflor for seeming to try to overly emphasize

it's only reasonable

to be suspicious of gobble. I do, however, appreciate Dann's analysis that the wooden tone from gobble fits with tryhard town, which is evidence Dann is trying to get a real read from this.

[Cephrir]

i wonder if i'll be able to disentangle kittymo's alignment from generally enjoying her as a poster/person.

[Hopkirk]

I don't think your takes on "the first part" are great. Like, you seem to be arguing it's both "too prepared" but also something he didn't think through enough when he asked it which is why he had to overprepare later? Along Occam's razor lines, even if he is scum I don't really think that's probably the actual mindset.

Are you interested in unpacking to what extent you see the apparently hostile tone as alignment indicative?

Overprepared is probably less the term I'd use than 'overengineered'. Something that sounds like it was backed by a solid amount of logic due to thinking you need to have a good justification so you invent the perfect one afterwards.

I've caught myself doing the same thing a fair bit (irl mafia) a couple of times when I accused someone then created a strong argument to back it up that closer inspection would have shown that wasn't something I was thinking when I put it together in the first place.

Hostile tone is personality indicative, but worth following up.

Hop 'Hops' Hops